WEBVTT - Ep. 294: The Extraordinary Life of Ellis Bell 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:10.559 To me, that was success where most people were dying 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:15.440 to get away from the country because they saw other 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.240 people going north look like they was building a better 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.200 life because they came back driving a new car. I 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.120 didn't look at having a new car as being success. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.960 I looked at my dad having a better crop. That 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.720 was the success that I was looking for, even as 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.320 a smaller child. I wanted my success to be right 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:39.479 here on the land. 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.159 On this episode, I want to introduce you to a 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.760 fourth generation soybean and rice farmer, eighty seven year old 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:54.320 Ellis Bell from Forest City, Arkansas. Today, he still farms 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.560 on the land purchased by his great great grandfather in 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.720 eighteen eighty one. Mister Ellis as an African American, and 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.680 many in his community left the South in what historians 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.840 call the Great Migration, which took place between nineteen ten 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.000 and the nineteen seventies. But mister Ellis wanted to make 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.520 a life for himself on the land that he was 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:20.680 born on, and with much struggle, grit, and wisdom he did. 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.920 Mister Ellis is a renaissance man. He had to be 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.200 creative to keep his farm alive, and in his career 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.000 he built airplanes. He was an insurance broker. He's a pilot, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.760 but deep in his bones he's a farmer. In twenty 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.440 twenty three, he was inducted into the Arkansas Agricultural Hall 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.600 of Fame, but the future of his farm is in question. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.120 This is an extraordinary story and I really doubt that 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:53.240 you're gonna want to miss this one. And Hey, this 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.360 week on the Meat Eater YouTube channel, my Alaskan goat 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.440 bow hunting film comes out. You should check that out. 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.440 My name is Clay nukemb and this is the Bear 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:18.480 Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.200 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:26.359 story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:32.760 Presented by FHF gear, American made purpose built hunting and 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.280 fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:37.520 place as we explore. 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.960 My name is Ellis bell I was born in Foyst City, Arkansas, 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:57.840 in nineteen thirty eight. My great great grandfather, he was 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:03.320 discharged in eighteen eighty three, came out after the Civil War. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.440 They was either able to bude through whatever the government 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:14.440 program was, but my great great grandfather obtained this eighty 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:18.280 three acres at that time, but it's my understanding he 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.120 paid about three hundred dollars for this land. 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.600 Mister Ellis is sitting at his dining room table in 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.800 his home built sometime around nineteen thirty, and he seemed 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.480 proud to mention that the joys were handcut by his father, 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.480 Rice Bell. Myyars perked up when I learned that in 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:42.040 eighteen eighty one, his great great grandfather purchased the land, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.520 just sixteen years after the end of the Civil War. 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.720 Joseph Doody, that was the name of his great great grandfather, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.280 and he moved here from Tennessee after the war, but 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.760 was never enslaved. But he lived a short life. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:02.000 My great great grandfather he passed away at and he 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.080 was like a forty three or forty four. At an 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:09.760 early age. Supposedly he got kicked by a mule in 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:14.840 the service and never recovered from it. So I've got 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.960 many many letters and things like that where my grandmother 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.320 was trying to get a pincheon that was given to 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.880 soldiers who had got injured in the wall, and she 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.159 was getting the pension to raise her daughter, you know, 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.760 after he after he. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:38.000 Died, Joseph Dudy died a year's long, slow death from 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:42.560 a mule kick. Mister Ellis's home and farm is just 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.400 outside of Forest City, in a region we called the Delta. 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:51.360 It's flat, fertile agricultural land influenced by the ancient flooding 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.720 of the Mississippi River. It's also the region of Arkansas 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.359 where the vast majority of slavery took place. There was 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.800 big ag there was a need for big labor. Like 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.560 mister Ellis, I've lived in Arkansas my whole life, and 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.840 I can testify that there are social artifacts of this 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:17.560 tragic period in American history still evident today. And if 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.200 you'll permit me to be real, I'll share with you 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.039 something that's always puzzled me. I grew up in western 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.320 Arkansas and didn't go to school with a single African 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.400 American person. I didn't know a black person growing up, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.680 while some schools in eastern Arkansas in the Delta were 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:43.000 almost all African American. This snippet will find relevance as 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.919 we continue to tell this story. And it's interesting to 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.560 me the stories that we remember and the stories that 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.440 mister Ellis Is gonna tell us. It feels like age 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.800 weeds out the riff raft and by the time a 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.920 man is in his eighties, even his late eighties, the 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.880 ones that he can recall all are clearly essential and 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.440 they formed the architecture of his life. This next story 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.919 is from the nineteen forties and was formative. It was 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:10.680 when mister Ellis was just a child. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.360 And I like to tell the story when my father 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.599 told my mother. This was in March. He said, they're 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.479 getting their loans and I'm going up here to the 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.080 bank to see if I can get a loan. And 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.360 I heard them talking, and I says, can I go? 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.080 And they says, no, it's too cold to No, you 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.080 can't go. Because I like to follow my dad everywhere, 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:41.599 And so we went to bed. The next morning, my dad, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:43.880 I heard him. When he got up, he put the 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:48.240 team together, he tied them off, came back and eat breakfast. 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:52.120 And I was still begging to go, so they let 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:58.160 me go. We drove downtown and we tied off those 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.760 team and we walked down to the bank, and we 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.080 walked in the lobby of the bank, and I had 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.839 never seen so many white men's in one place, and 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.280 all of my life they were all having fun. And 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.400 you know they were all there. I guess they knew 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.800 that they were going to get their money to farm 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.720 that year. And my dad we walked down into Rotunda 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.520 and my dad by we got about halfway in the 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.320 Bank of Metals and he says to my dad, Rice, 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.120 I can't let you have no money, he says, but 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:34.120 if you go out to see the Lindsey Boys, they'll 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:34.720 take care of you. 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.200 That story gives a razor sharp image of the nineteen 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:44.800 forty South. There's a controversial idea I've heard much of 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:49.240 my life regarding America's past, and it's problematic in a 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:54.200 generalization at best. If you'll permit me, I will say 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.920 something that's usually unset and it's this that the South 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:03.000 valued the individual black man but devalued the race on 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:08.600 a systemic level, and Northerners didn't value the individual black man, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.080 but valued the race. And I'm being vulnerable here because 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.360 it feels weird to say that out loud, but we 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.640 see this in history, and thankfully that thing is less 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.840 true today than it was forty years ago. The exact 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.240 reasons are unclear, but mister Rice, who this banker knew 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.800 by name, wasn't able to get money from this bank 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.800 because he was an African American. But ironically the bankers 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.040 seemed to treat him with respect, but they'd arranged for 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:43.800 someone else in town to handle the black business. I'd 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.040 also like to note that in the early nineteen forties, 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.880 mister Ellis's family was still driving a wagon. The model 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.840 T had been around for almost four decades. Cars and 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:58.360 trucks were the norm. But the story continues, We're now 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:00.640 back with mister Ellis in the wagon. 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:08.560 So we walked back down there and got in the wagon, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.960 drove for four miles out here to Carwell, Arkansas, and 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.480 we got out of the wagon and we proceeded into 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:23.000 the Lindsey Boys store and there was a man standing 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:27.160 on the porch crying, and I was looking him up 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.959 and down because I had never seen a grown man cry, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.319 so I felt like that either he had a broken 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.080 arm or somebody didn't beat him up or something. But 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.800 he was holding it up against the post, the post 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.720 to hold the porch of he was crying, so I 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.320 was that's my dad, that's the word man crying. My 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:47.000 dad didn't say anything. So we walked in there, and 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.200 the Lindsy guy knew my dad, and I guess he 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.520 knew who he's out there for. He says Rice. He says, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:59.240 we got you covered. He said, anything change. My dad said, yeah, 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.280 I like to buy another meule, another cow or whatever, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.079 few plow or whatever. He said, that's what a couple 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.640 hundred dollars, three hundred dollars. My dad said yeah, he said, 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.840 we got you covered. So we proceeded to walk back 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.080 out of the Lindsey Boys store and this man still 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.360 sitting there crying, and I'm looking him up and down. 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.440 Why is this man crying? I'm asking my dad. My 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.280 dad's not telling me he knew because he was listening 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.439 to what the other guys was saying. But I wasn't 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:30.600 listening to them. I'm wondering to what's thrown this man. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.160 So we get in the wagon and my dad said, well, 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.440 the reason he's crying is because he lived on this 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.719 man's farm. And I guess you're sharecropping or whatever. And 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.720 he got his money from this from the Lindy brother 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.520 for his part, and he went in there and they 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.120 told him that the man said he couldn't stay there 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.760 any longer. Hit the move because they the man told him. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.920 He says, you can't ready to your kids in school 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.840 until I get through picking my cottin And he raised 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.280 his kids in school anyway, So he had to go 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.400 home and tell his wife that they had to move. 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.600 And he didn't have no place to go, he said, 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:12.760 and that's why he's crying. 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.080 The crying sharecroppers. Landowner wanted the man's kids to work 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.000 the fields until the cotton was picked, but the father 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.280 pulled them out of the fields and sent them to 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.080 school in the late summer. It's clear this man wanted 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.360 the best for his kids. He wanted him to get 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.600 an education. But it made the landowner mad and he 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.360 kicked the whole family off the land. This is the 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.920 kind of stuff that made many African Americans want to 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.800 leave the South, and they did in great number. It's 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.360 called the Great Migration. Let's get back in the wagon 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.040 with the young Ellis Bell. 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:57.120 And of course by this time, you know it's I mean, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:02.320 we got started that morning before day, going downtown. By 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.040 this time it's wed in the afternoon, it's windy, it's cold, 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:12.040 it's hell. And they had put a palette in the 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.600 wagon for me because they knew that I'd be took 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.200 it out befo. I got back so my dad put 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.240 me back there on the pallette and covered me up. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.720 And if you ever rolled on a steel wheel wagon 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.560 over the rock road, that wheel did not miss a 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:33.679 rock in that road. Looked like it drove me crazy 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:35.480 while I was laying there until I went to sleep. 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.640 But anyway, that was a story I thought was worth 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.600 telling because again that's part of the hard times that 0:12:42.679 --> 0:13:08.160 I've seen in my life. Well, we raised the hogs 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.719 in cattle. Like I said, it was the natural American community, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.520 and we would get together as a community and kill hogs. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.400 You know, we may have five or ten may would 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.880 kill hogs all day long. You know, you'd bring you 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.320 three or four up and they'd dress them and kill 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.680 them and you know, work them up. And the families 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.800 would get together and they would do a lot, do 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.120 the hams. And then you know they'd get together and 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.360 they'd cure them together. But you know, we raised hogs 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.800 and we raised cattle, and we had a smokehouse, and 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.880 my mother and them used to have to go to 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.359 their smokehouse and feed other people in the community. Sometimes, 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.640 you know, there would leave new people come into this 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.200 community that didn't have anything, didn't have anything to eat. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.000 They could always go to their house, the smoke house, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.360 and get a ham. She can a lot, so she 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.680 raised big garden and she'd give them a jaw. There's 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:14.680 a jar there. That's what Afro American people did together 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:20.000 back in those days. And I won't say they flourished, 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.640 but maybe that's how they came through hard times together 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:28.200 by working together. It looked like it was until integration 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.160 started taking place that people started scattering. They start not 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.840 doing his merch together, and it's been splintered. Looked like 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.920 to me pretty much ever since. In certain ways like that, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.720 we didn't do that, and then a lot of people 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.520 left the country. Of course, you know, I went north, 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.800 started working in the factories and stuff like that. 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:54.760 Mister Ellis saw something interesting, tragic and complicated. It's far 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.080 beyond me to understand in its fullness. But did you 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:03.640 hear him say that desegregation splintered Black communities. It's clear 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.880 that segregation was a destructive cultural practice and desegregation was 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.200 a positive for society. But many now see the implementation 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.560 of integration brought forth many problems. Like mister Ellis saw. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.880 It broke up many traditionally black communities and resulted in 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.840 what author sheare of Cash and described as social and 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:31.360 political fragmentation because it replaced community institutions that were led, supported, 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.200 and filled with Black people for community institutions that were 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:40.120 led by somebody else. Schools are the best example. Segregated 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.520 schools had black teachers and faculty, and now the black 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.640 kids went to schools without any black people and leadership 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:51.680 at all. And this hostility isn't speculative or exaggerated, as 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.120 evidenced by the Little Rock nine incident from September nineteen 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.080 fifty seven. I think you can see where all this 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:04.320 is going. Mister Ellis graduated from a segregated school in 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.800 nineteen fifty six, just ninety miles east of Little Rock. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.560 But the next thing that he saw kind of blew 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:11.440 my mind. 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.120 I didn't spend time crying over something that somebody didn't 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.040 want me to do. You know. I was raised up 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.800 here in Arkansas, and you know, and we passed by 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:27.120 the white schools all the time on our way to 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:31.240 the black schools, so you know, and what was hard 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:36.080 for me is that sometime we didn't walk almost seven 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:41.840 miles of school, and we would pass Chinese people walking 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.880 from their home to the white schools. And we would 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.360 be passing in going to the black schools. 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.920 The rabbit hole of the South just keeps getting deeper 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.240 and deeper the more that you peer in. Arriving as 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.440 early as the eighteen seventies, there were many chineseants in 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.120 the South who came here to fill in the labor 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.480 void created by African Americans leaving after the Civil War, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.320 and many in the South would find themselves in the 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.240 grocery business. By the mid nineteen hundreds. Do you remember 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.920 Bear Grease Hall of Famer Hulk Collier of Mississippi having 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.719 the neighborhood kids buy him an orange drink from the 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:25.800 China grocery before he would tell them stories. That's interesting. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.359 These formative memories of mister Ellis are so powerful. But 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.200 this next one set the tone for his life. It's 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:35.400 a story about his mother. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.840 When this was an all Afro American community out here, 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:43.639 most people that lived out here, I didn't know about 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:48.240 one family that was Caucasian that lived about a mile 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.679 down the road. And there was a stir to be 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:57.560 told about that, and that is their name was Jones. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:05.359 And I remember them fairly well. And one night it 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.120 was cold in the wintertime, and we had pulled all 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:13.960 the beds into the room where the fireplace was, and 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.359 my two sisters were sleeping at the head of the bed, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.520 and I was sleeping at the foot of the bed, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.399 and my dad mother had another bed off to the 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.600 side of that bed in the same room. And we 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.399 had a fireplace in there, and we had a frame house, 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:37.760 and you know, it was opening the bottom, and you know, 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:39.680 it took a lot to keep it warm. It was 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.800 because back in those days, that's when we had zero 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.280 degrees for five and six and seven days, like it's 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.120 almost unheard of now, you know, like it was back 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:57.439 in those days. And one night I awakened when my 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:02.159 dad opened the door. He said to my mother and 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:06.000 he says, I got the horse saddle and tied to 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:11.000 the porch, and I saw my mother. She was dressed 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.960 so bunterly tight that all I could see was like 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:21.800 a ball standing there, still wrapping herself. So I says 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.240 to my mother, says, where are you going? And she says, 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:30.960 I'm going to help missus Jones. And I thought about 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:32.600 it for a little bit. She said, I don't want 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.919 to help miss Jones, she says, having the baby. And 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.720 I said, well, missus Jones. I don't know no black 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.280 people with the last name Jones. So I said to 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:47.440 my mother, I says, that's a white woman. She turned 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.119 and looked at me, and I hadn't seen her face, 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.600 but I had saw her body being wrapped, and all 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.199 I could see was her eyes. And she says to me, 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:09.400 AL said, but she's a human being. And then she 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.480 walked out of the house and got on this horse. 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.240 And back in those days, the bridges was impassable. You 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.520 had to the horse had to go around the bridge 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.040 almost to get across him. You had to go around 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.680 in the creek. And then of course it was woods 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.640 all through here. And I we was living right over there, 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.280 and I told you it was born. And I didn't 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.159 know if she's going to come through the woods to 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.600 get to Missus Jones, or she's gonna try to go 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.440 around the road to get to Missus Jones. I didn't 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:44.320 know any of that. But anyway, I started crying because 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.680 I felt like that whatever route she took was gonna 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.600 be very dangerous, and I didn't know if i'd see 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.200 her again. So I stopped crying. 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.879 And that was a lesson to me, you know, for 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.320 her to tell me that she was a human being. 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.840 What a powerful story that shows the character of his 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:15.879 mother and father. I know we're neck deep in the 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.520 bear grease, but this next story is probably gonna make 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.760 you laugh. I wanted to know if mister Alice ever 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:24.600 did much hunting. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:31.200 I wasn't fishing with you know, I like to follow people, 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.560 like to do things. My dad was never a hunter. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:35.760 I had an uncle. 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:41.200 My cousin was Hannah. 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:41.639 And they used to talk about the fun they'd have 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:44.120 going out of what hunt at night. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:49.760 One night they was going out coon and I went 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.920 with him. The scariest night of my life. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:02.439 Oh, I was from fridaticle falling a hole. They wouldn't 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:08.639 fight me and they were shooting them cool. They was 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.919 falling out of the tree. That was an experience what 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.440 I got back home, I never wanted to go again. 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.120 That's my experiencing hunting. 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:25.720 Otherwise. You know, you know there's plenty of rabbits running 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.040 around here. You know, we'd shoot one every once in 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:28.480 a while. 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.800 Mister Allie got a kick out of telling that story, 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:38.480 and so did I. But let's get back to the farm. 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.920 See in this part of the country, this land, back 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.199 in the day wouldn't raise anything. Anything that was west 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.840 of the ridge up here wouldn't hardly grow anything. When 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.000 we picked cotton, we had knee pads because cotton wouldn't 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:59.240 grow two feet high, Holly, But cotton back in those 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:04.000 days was you know, and because cotten was king, they 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.959 could still make a little money by growing cotton. There 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.840 was a knee high you know in the sheds that 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:11.720 would be when I was a kid, that would be 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.920 knee pass all around the wall where people had to 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:19.800 get on their knees to pick the cotten. Well, I 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.199 worked very closely with my mother and my father. I 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:28.200 would help them, I would. I was there, chatter wherever 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.520 they went, wherever they did. I was always there, being nosy, 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:34.720 trying to help her in the way, you know, it 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:38.080 was cooking or whether it was out, you know, rowling 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:41.159 the horses and music. You know, I was rowling the 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:43.720 horses and music. When I had to stand on the 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:46.560 gate to put a bridle on them. You know, I'd 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:48.520 drive them to come up and get some coin, and 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:50.760 I'd stand up on the gate and put the bridle 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.679 on them. And uh, you know, I remember when I 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:59.080 was probably four years old. I guess again, I would 0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:03.760 follow my daddy place he went. Whenever he went out 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.840 to feed the hogs and stuff. I'd go and he 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.800 finally built something where I could clumb up that, and 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:13.639 finally he put my clothes on me, and he says, okay, 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.640 you can do it by yourself. Man. Oh sure. I'd 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.679 show him how I could do it, and I was 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:22.920 happy to go out there early in the morning. They'd 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:25.000 bottle me up and put some clothes on me, and 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.320 I'd go feed the hogs. I was that kind of 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.639 a person. And of course that's where he used to 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:36.040 hide his piece round there in the cotten seed hogs, 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:39.440 you know, you say, the cotton seeds for the next year, 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:42.280 and he'd make his brand in. I knew where he 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:46.440 had his stash, so i'd go feed the hogs and 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.960 I had a jug. Did I turn up and get 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:54.320 me a few swags every every day? That's probably about 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.040 four and a half and one day I looked at 0:24:58.080 --> 0:24:58.639 that jug. 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:03.920 It was only fool. That's so boy, I'm in trouble now. 0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:05.879 I don't remember. 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:09.399 I drank it all up. I pulled it out, but 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:12.359 I didn't want him to know that. You know what, 0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:14.760 I got three feet in a hog go back in 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:16.840 the house, and they'd be set at the table drinking 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.640 coffee and tea and stuff, and I'd be feeling good. 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:23.960 That was something that I kept to myself. 0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:25.399 I didn't never tell him by. 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:33.399 It, you know, mister Ellis, I think you knew better 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:37.560 than to be chugging your daddy's peach brandy. And what 0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:40.320 he'd tell us later was that his dad made it 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:44.359 from wagon loads of peaches that he'd bring home. But 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.320 we're now at a major transition point in mister Ellis's life. 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:52.080 In the chronology of his story. He graduates high school, 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.320 but he quickly gets sucked away from the family farm. 0:25:57.080 --> 0:26:01.399 And I graduated in fifty six, I went away to 0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:05.920 the Saint Louis area full of winter, and then I was 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:11.399 going to come back and farm. Fifty seven. Landed a 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:16.760 job for the winter. While they're in Saint Louis, I 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:21.040 was taking boys out to McDonald Douglas Aircraft where they 0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:25.760 were seeking a job, and I was there transportation person 0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:28.560