WEBVTT - Kickstarter Co-Founder on Seeing Value Beyond Money

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so I'm gonna make

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<v Speaker 1>a confession here on air. We talked about a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of books and we get to read a lot of books,

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<v Speaker 1>or we get handed a lot of books, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we sort of flipped through them and we have discussions

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<v Speaker 1>with authors. There are very very few that I pick up.

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<v Speaker 1>I flip them open on the train and then I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just in. And I was totally in on this book

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<v Speaker 1>from the get go. It's called This Could Be Our Future.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a manifesto for a more generous world. Yancy Strickler,

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<v Speaker 1>he's the co founder of Kickstarter, former CEO. He is

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<v Speaker 1>the author of this book with us. Yeah, it's really great.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really great. He's here with us in New York City.

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<v Speaker 1>Is based out in l A, but here in our studio.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have to say, there's so many questions I

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<v Speaker 1>have for you, But I guess the first is why

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<v Speaker 1>this book? Why now? Um? Yeah, great, great question. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean it's it started from me with when I lived

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<v Speaker 1>here in the city. I lived here for almost twenty years,

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<v Speaker 1>and I lived in Lower East Side and there was

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<v Speaker 1>a crystallizing moment where there was an old punk dive

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<v Speaker 1>bar in the neighborhood called Mars Bar. We got turned

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<v Speaker 1>I got torn down and replaced by a ted A

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<v Speaker 1>merrit Trade bank. And what's crazy is it was the

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<v Speaker 1>fourth one within a fifteen minute walk of that same corner.

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<v Speaker 1>And as someone who lived in the neighborhood, I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>is there some glitch in the matrix where random storefronts

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<v Speaker 1>get switched to like, you know, cell phone and cell

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<v Speaker 1>phone stores and banks over nine And it was just

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<v Speaker 1>it was that dramatic, and they end up being Wall

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<v Speaker 1>Street Journal reporting around that at the time. Why are

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<v Speaker 1>there so many banks? And there have been an increase

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<v Speaker 1>of almost a thousand banks in the city over the

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<v Speaker 1>previous ten years, And so I just started asking why

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<v Speaker 1>and um, and so I end up connecting. I came

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<v Speaker 1>to think that the same reason why they were banks

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<v Speaker 1>everywhere was the same reason why every movie was a sequel,

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<v Speaker 1>the same reason why Taylor Swift is on the cover

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<v Speaker 1>of every magazine. And it's this implicit belief that the

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<v Speaker 1>right choice in any decision is just which her option

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<v Speaker 1>makes the most money, and that's become a simple sort

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<v Speaker 1>of calculus that we used to organize and operate our decisions.

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<v Speaker 1>That works some of the time, but then you have

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<v Speaker 1>weird moments where your neighborhood gets overtaken by bank branches

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<v Speaker 1>and you're like, wait, what what what is the logic here?

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<v Speaker 1>And that your life, almost without you having any say

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<v Speaker 1>in it, fundamentally changes. Your daily experience fundamentally changes because

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<v Speaker 1>of these forces that truly are beyond your control. Yeah. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think what's interesting is what happened, you know, where

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<v Speaker 1>it went from making money was a good thing and

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<v Speaker 1>many people benefited as a result of it too, making

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<v Speaker 1>money became such a terrible thing hands of just a few. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't think it's a terrible thing. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that I think that there's some I think that

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<v Speaker 1>the goal of financial growth is an intelligent one, but

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<v Speaker 1>we keep expecting that if we just grow the capital base,

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<v Speaker 1>that we can just use that money to solve everything else.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think we're finding that the transaction fees for

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<v Speaker 1>that are very high, and pricing in externalities is very different.

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<v Speaker 1>Cold like the fact that you can still get a

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<v Speaker 1>thirty year mortgage on beachfront property in America right now

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<v Speaker 1>is crazy, like we are not yet really registering what's

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<v Speaker 1>happening around us. So as I thought about this question,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm a huge optimist about the world and human beings,

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<v Speaker 1>and I look at what we've created in the pursuit

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<v Speaker 1>of money, and it's it's truly amazing what we've created.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, look at look at the building we're in,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean the city we're in. It's it's truly amazing. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>But what would happen, What would happen if we if

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<v Speaker 1>we switched gears, What would happen if we if we

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<v Speaker 1>saw something different? And I came to think that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest potential for us could be a real expansion

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<v Speaker 1>of how we see our self interest and how we

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<v Speaker 1>see value, because we right now we operate according the

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<v Speaker 1>belief that what's in our rational self interest is what

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<v Speaker 1>we want and need right now, it's just all about now.

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<v Speaker 1>We talk about this certainly with the retail markets. In

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<v Speaker 1>the shopping market, we've had the author of fashion Opolis

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<v Speaker 1>on and how you're starting to slowly see kind of

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<v Speaker 1>this pushback against fast fashion, because first of all, it's

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<v Speaker 1>we all just end up having so much stuff. You

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<v Speaker 1>also have workers who are making not a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>money to produce all of it, like there's just some

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<v Speaker 1>really bad consequence. The phrase, the phrase I use in

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<v Speaker 1>the book to talk about that is, I say, the

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<v Speaker 1>image that comes to mind when I picture what's happening

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<v Speaker 1>is the mullet, and the mullet is the pinnacle of

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<v Speaker 1>eighties hair technology, you know, business in front, party in

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<v Speaker 1>the back. And so we are living in we are

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<v Speaker 1>living in the mullet economy where for nine of people,

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<v Speaker 1>for workers, it is business in front with wage freezes, layoffs,

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<v Speaker 1>more job in security than ever before. And then for

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<v Speaker 1>the top one to ten percent is the party in

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<v Speaker 1>the back of CEO compensation or executive compensation up a

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<v Speaker 1>thousand percent since the seventies. And so we're on this

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<v Speaker 1>track where people they keep losing out of Americans can't

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<v Speaker 1>pay their bills every month right now, and it just

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<v Speaker 1>keeps going to this top group and it's just not

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a mullet's cool. But you talked about the

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<v Speaker 1>two stories of getting these you know, big bonuses again

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<v Speaker 1>for like the third year in a row, and then

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<v Speaker 1>we had another story about a lot of people tapping

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<v Speaker 1>into these you know, mega a debt middle class getting

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<v Speaker 1>hooked on debt with rates like the dichotomy that is

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<v Speaker 1>going on right now, and that's the big like the

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<v Speaker 1>most red stores. I have. I have a I have

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<v Speaker 1>a chart in the book that I made that shows

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<v Speaker 1>the the pay rates of American workers and and show

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<v Speaker 1>where these froze, like nineteen seventy three, workers really stopped

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<v Speaker 1>getting raises. At the high point for the average American

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<v Speaker 1>worker for paper product productivity was nineteen seventy three, the

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<v Speaker 1>same year Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon came out.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a long time ago and now we're all comfortably

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<v Speaker 1>numb to this new normal. But I have this chart

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<v Speaker 1>where I layer over top of the income, I layered

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<v Speaker 1>the introduction of the credit card, which was the first

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<v Speaker 1>credit cards happened in nineteen sixty six. There was zero

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<v Speaker 1>credit card debt in America in nineteen sixty six. Starting

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventies, when income stopped growing, credit cards filled

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<v Speaker 1>the gap. So if you actually look at the amount

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<v Speaker 1>of credit card debt held by American families, those are

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<v Speaker 1>the pay raises. So you can imagine that instead of

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<v Speaker 1>giving people raises, we gave them credit cards instead because

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<v Speaker 1>it makes more money. If it's future debt. Right, it's

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<v Speaker 1>following the same mentality. So people are getting by, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing with debt now instead of pay And I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, it wasn't with your parents, but like my parents,

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<v Speaker 1>there's like no debt, like they bought their house, like

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't the credit card things were paid off. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember when he got my father got the first credit card,

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<v Speaker 1>like it was but they used it responsible. Sorry, Jason,

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<v Speaker 1>So I just have to ask you, because we only

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<v Speaker 1>have about a minute left. You do strike a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>optimistic tone actually throughout this book, and the second half

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<v Speaker 1>is really sort of what do we do you look

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<v Speaker 1>forward to twenty fifty. You talk about, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>next generations who will sort of run this stuff and

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<v Speaker 1>a different sort of way of doing it, and it

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<v Speaker 1>in part you have a window into it because of Kickstarter,

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<v Speaker 1>which you found. It help us understand where we may

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<v Speaker 1>go from here. I wish we had more time, but

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<v Speaker 1>but let us know. The future is about balancing financial

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<v Speaker 1>and non financial values, right, and and currently when we

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<v Speaker 1>have discussions of financial versus non financial it's like a

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<v Speaker 1>rational versus an emotional argument. But we need to get

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<v Speaker 1>in place where both of these are rational arguments. Where

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<v Speaker 1>we agree on the importance of the sustainability of our lifestyles,

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<v Speaker 1>where we agree on the importance of social cohesion, and

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<v Speaker 1>that those things can be really put into our decision making.

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<v Speaker 1>So I create a framework I called bentoi is um,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a way to do that. But to me,

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<v Speaker 1>expanding our self interests, expanding what we think of as

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<v Speaker 1>rational value. That's how we keep playing to our strengths

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<v Speaker 1>as human beings, and we keep bettering this just as

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<v Speaker 1>all of our ancestors did for us, Like this is

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<v Speaker 1>our moment to step up for all the generations to follow. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I do certainly feel like it's a conversation that more

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<v Speaker 1>and more folks are having, including the corporate community. Um

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<v Speaker 1>so and I and I do think we both have teenagers.

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<v Speaker 1>I think teenagers are having this conversation in a very

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<v Speaker 1>uh and I say that in a very optimistic way.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a phenomenal book. I couldn't recommend it more. This

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<v Speaker 1>could be our future manifesto for a more generous world.

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<v Speaker 1>Yancy Strickler is the author, co founder, former CEO of

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<v Speaker 1>Kickstarter