WEBVTT - The Man Who Egged King Charles 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.560 Hey everyone, Robert here. Before we get into it, I 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:07.400 want to note my internet was terrible during this call. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.960 We tried to have the guest record locally, but there 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.080 was kind of a technical glitch there, and Zoom glitched 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.120 a little on the audio. In order to make it listenable. 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.000 There are going to be like three or four points 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.160 here where I pop in and just say what he 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.280 was trying to say or what he said, and the 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.800 Internet then garbled up so that you can understand what's 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.000 actually being said in the conversation. So when my voice 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.440 pops in and I read a line, it's me reading 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.839 something that he said that got kind of distorted. I 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:43.559 do apologize. Ah, welcome to it could happen here. A 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:48.159 podcast about things falling apart and occasionally about the quest 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.160 to build a better world. Today, we've got an episode 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:56.080 that is in the latter category about the struggle to 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.880 make the United Kingdom less I don't know, in the 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.880 thrall of a monarchy and an aristocratic class, and to 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.360 build a more equitable society. And our guest today is 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:13.039 somebody who is attempting to further that cause, and did 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.240 so last year by attempting to huck several eggs at 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:22.319 the current King of England, Charles the I forget the number. Patrick, Well, 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:24.880 how are you doing today? 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:25.320 Hi? 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.800 Yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Yeah, it was five eggs. Five 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:31.800 eggs and he's the third king. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:33.600 The third king, third king. 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.600 Far more than three unfortunately. Yeah, you guys have had 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.399 a few. Was one of the ones you'all killed? 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:40.960 To Charles? 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.399 Yeah, yeah, that was the last one. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:48.320 That was the last one. Well, yeah, I would say trouble. Yeah. 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.200 So let's start by talking about this is in a 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.760 twenty about a year ago at a he was doing 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:58.960 a they called it a walkabout, which I guess is 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.639 when the king shows up in a city in the video. 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.160 I watched the video of this and like, there's. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.560 A bunch of people dressed in all sorts of fun costumes, 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.799 and some ladies got a massive sword. 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.200 Like a a sword of. 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.359 The size that I know for a fact that man 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:14.639 cannot lift above his head. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.839 Yeah, it's funny. He comes out of his little car 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.920 and I know, all the little trumpets go and everyone starts, 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.360 you know, waving their flags on queue and going like, look, 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:31.320 there he is. There is some pretty unhinged to be honest, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.200 it's it's it's quite embarrassing. 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:39.320 But yeah, there's like the American chauvinist in me that 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.040 like wants to wants to laugh more about the monarchy. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:47.480 But I'm just finished reading an article about Dianne Feinstein 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.520 where the journalist interviewing her was like, so you've missed 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.280 a bunch of votes over the last three months, and 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:53.680 she's like, no. 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.400 I haven't. I've been working the whole time. 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.240 So I guess we're all kind of enthrall to the 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.640 corpses of of our past. 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.680 It's hierarchy. Hierarchy everywhere is the problem. 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.760 So you decide to show up when you kind of 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.359 find out that the king is going to be showing 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.560 up here, and what kind of leads you to decide, 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.240 I'm gonna I'm gonna throw some eggs in my pocket 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:18.520 and take my shot. 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.799 So I actually only found out that he was coming 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.160 to York about three days with a megaphone and you know, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:32.120 shout some cause obviously the queen had died about a 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:37.400 month or so before, and during the funeral processions there 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.920 was you know, several people were arrested for someone shouted 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.840 at you know, Prince Andrew, you know, in Scotland's they 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.240 were like, oh, you're a sick old man, and they did, 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.320 and that was probably my my inspiration. But then on 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.520 the morning when he came to York, my megaphone was 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.800 just like busted. So I was just like, oh, okay, 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.440 I'm gonna gonna go get some eggs then. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:00.680 And white eggs. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.920 What kind of led to that decision? 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.080 Man? Everyone asked that. Yeah, I guess like I was 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:08.840 into the assumption that we all just knew that you 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.520 throw eggs at people you don't like maybe it's a 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:11.160 British thing. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.120 But I think it may just be that in the 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.960 US because of the gun stuff, people are like a 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.839 lot more hesitant to huck stuff just for fun, right, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.200 if you're throwing stuff and somebody it's serious. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.880 Although someone someone threw a beer at Ted Cruz. 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.599 Yeah, they sure did. That was good. That was good. 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.920 Yeah. I think you know, I actually had a lot 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.080 of time to think about before my trial about white 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.039 eggs and stuff, and I think they're just funny, you know, 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:42.800 like there's a lot of egg puns that came out 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.960 of it that that, you know, not to get too 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.479 philosophical about it, but they're kind of you know, they're 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:54.200 they're really harmless, you know, but inherently humiliating as well. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.320 Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to argue attempted murder from an egg. 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:03.800 But at the same time, yeah. 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.320 Well exactly. And I think there's there's something to be 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:08.640 said for contrasting the violence of the state, yeah, with 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:13.320 what's obviously like very low level violence. And yeah, I'm 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.520 the one standing trial for it. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:17.760 Yeah, I mean it is. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.560 It is like the language that got used by the 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:25.160 state kind of in the proceedings against you was was amusing. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.120 Like I know that it was a pain in the 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.760 ash you had to go through, but like the kind 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.479 of the framing that they they put with it to 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.960 make it seem like this was this was such a 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:40.440 like serious offense against public order was was was quite funny. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.599 And I think it's beyond me to know what was 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.160 going on in the now king's head at the time, 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.600 but I you got quite close. You can see right 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.239 after it hit there's there's goop on the ground directly 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.720 in front of his foot, and his shoulders slump a 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.440 little and he looks down, and I wonder if it 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.440 made him feel bad. I hope it did. You know, 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.000 I can't get inside the man's head. Maybe he's not 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:04.520 capable of that, but I wonder. 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.479 So, yeah, I mean through five and I will say 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.279 it for the record that one of them did bounce 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.520 off his arm, but he does have a force field, 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.320 so it's not my fault that it didn't didn't get 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.760 the full impact. But yeah, I honestly think he didn't 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.040 have a clue what's going on. He's pretty pretty sen 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:26.560 how to be honest. Yeah, but you know, monarchists were like, 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.880 so like, wow, look at how stoic he is. He 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.839 just doesn't even care. He just shrugged it off. He's 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.919 such a badass, and it's like he's just been guided 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:40.320 through this series of bizarre public opinions where he's got 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.480 to pretend that he you know, smiles and waves at 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.680 normal people and he doesn't think that we're all clubs. 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:52.240 But yeah, yeah, and it was the crowd reaction around 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.000 you was pretty intense from what I understand. I mean, 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.279 like people came after you when they realized what had happened. 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.159 Yeah, I think in some ways that spoke more more 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.080 itself than like anything that I could have done. You know, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.200 the reaction to the video, you know, people immediately just 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.040 start like pulling my hair, out in chunks and just 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.240 like screaming, like you know, like just killing him, like 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:16.160 stick his head on a spike, kick him to death, 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.760 and you know, and it really I think maybe that 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.200 kind of rhetoric is perhaps more like, you know that 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:25.320 the overt violence is more prevalent in American politics. But yeah, 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.000 you know, it exposed that you know, these people are 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:33.000 essentially fascists, you know, and that they yeah, they're very, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:33.960 very violent people. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:40.320 And I think this is something people have are starting 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:45.200 to recognize a little bit more about kind of politics 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.000 in the UK. I mean, we're looking right now. The 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.560 Public Order Act of twenty twenty three is kind of 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:56.000 the most recent law that's gone through Parliament that effectively 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.000 like expands the ability of the police to crack down 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.600 on protests. Some people will argue, and I think this seems, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.600 based on what I've read, pretty credible that it basically 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.280 makes it possible for the police to arrest anyone for 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:15.000 almost any kind of activism. And that kind of was 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.880 exhibited during the coronation when a group of kind of 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.520 of anti monarchist protesters who are more on the liberal 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.320 side of things, and you're kind of approaching this as 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:30.480 an anarchist, but a fairly large group of protesters with 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.160 signs that were saying stuff like not my king, attempted 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.600 to rally doing so. I believe their goal, from what 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.040 I can tell, was to comply with the law as 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.520 they understood it, and that did not protect them from 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.319 the police. 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.840 No. So you know, the context is in the wake 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.839 of the police there was a police officer, you know, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:57.080 last year who murdered a woman, Sarah Everard. Yeah, and 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.840 in the wake of that, they passed the Police, Courts, 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.080 Sentencing and Crime Bill. And that that bill was really like, 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:08.160 you know, the most over crackdown on protest. It banned 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.920 it allowed the police to arrest, the discretion of an officer, 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:18.320 any protest that was deemed potentially annoying, like that's the 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:22.240 specific language, is any any action that could be loud 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.199 or annoying. So, you know, there was a there was 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.080 a lot of protests against that at the time. That 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.520 obviously came to nothing, and they passed the bill anyway, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:31.680 and then and then so the Public Order Bill just 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.440 goes that step further by allowing them to preemptively arrest 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.720 anyone who might be about to do something that's loud 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:43.160 or annoying and including this new thing called a serious 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.240 Disruption Prevention Order, which is something that they can apply 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.360 to someone who's considered an aggravated activist. 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.000 He's saying, which is someone who has been arrested more 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.120 than twice for protest related offenses. 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.760 Essentially, it bans, you know, use of the internet to 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.640 communicate about your ideas, basically stopped from attending protests in 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:04.680 the first a rest at the train station. And yeah, 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.720 we saw that in play with the Republic, with this 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.720 organization that had been extensively liaising with the police, and 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.559 you know, it just seemed quite like Pikachu face when 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.800 suddenly they were all just rounded up and yeah, but 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.840 for literally, you know, no pretext. It was they had 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.880 they had like twelve thousand pounds worth of signs in 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.280 a van and they were they were all wrapped up 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.520 in yeah, just like rope rope, and the pretext for 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.280 the arrest was that the rope was a lock on 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.920 device that could be used to you know, I don't know, 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:39.240 like jump in front of the procession and tie yourself 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:39.880 with rope. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:40.320 To the road. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:41.839 I really don't know, Like. 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.640 Yeah, from what I could tell just from the coverage, 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.240 I've read. If their protest had gone the way they 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.200 planned it, it would have been like a show, a 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.800 visible show that there were people who didn't like the monarchy, 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.200 but it would not have caused it. Like they would 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.679 not have this. These people were not planning to like 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.680 burn down any public buildings or you know, smash car 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.920 windows or stop a road. Not that I'm specifically condemning 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.040 that behavior, but I'm just stating this was not the 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.960 state cracking down on people because they were afraid of 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.080 a riot. This was the state cracking down on people 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.720 because they didn't want the display of any kind of 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.160 descent to exist. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.760 Yeah, and you know, that's where we're at in this country. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.040 And to be honest, the arrest of those organizers was 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:29.960 the best thing that could have happened for the movement, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.920 because you know, what it really did was just shine 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.760 a light that it was impossible to ignore and in 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.640 some ways kind of over shadowed the coronation. Really was 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.320 far more than any speech that Graham Smith you know, 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.960 was planning to give, you know, just so overtly that 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.520 that there is no acceptable form of descent. Now, the 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.960 very concept is so distasteful to yeah, our aristocracy that 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:57.520 it's banned. 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.840 And I really appreciate your ability to kind of see 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.360 the upside, the tactical upside in that, because I think 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.079 it is true. I doubt I would have heard about 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.440 that protest if it had gone as the organizers planned, right, 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:13.280 because it would have just been Yeah, there's some people 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.800 who don't like the monarchy in the UK. That doesn't 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.679 surprise me at all, but seeing it was like everywhere 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.680 all over my social media. I got sent it by 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.840 multiple friends, by a family member because the state decided 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.040 to go after these people, And I do think I 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.080 think it's also from just a standpoint when you're talking 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.360 about a struggle with as long odds as kind of 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:41.640 struggling against the monarchy in the United Kingdom, which is 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.920 you are talking about like the most entrenched power structure 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:50.840 outside of the Vatican, right Basically, when you're talking about that, 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.880 it is so important to be able to look at 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.400 moments like this and see the upside in them rather 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.800 than just rather than just kind of feel the boot 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.400 all the time. Otherwise you're you're not going to have 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:16.160 the endurance to keep fighting, you know. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:21.079 For me with specifically with the eggs, I was I've 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.680 been conscious the whole time that the backlash and the 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.760 you know, disproportionate state reaction would speak more than my 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.360 own actions. So so, for example, one of the reasons 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.200 why I think, you know, it went pretty viral when 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:35.679 I when I threw the eggs in the first place, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.120 I was a bit surprised by by how it went 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.000 kind of quite internationally. But but but you know, so 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.760 the fact, so my bail conditions were between between my 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.599 arrest and my trial were that I wasn't allowed to 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.520 carry eggs in public. Yeah, I know. And so that 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.439 is in itself like so absurd that it's like, right. 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.520 I gotta notice there like a provision for if you're 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.840 going home from the store or are you just are. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:08.080 You just so? So the copper who was literally just 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.240 like making this up at the station says like, okay, 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.319 so your bail condition is you're not allowed within five 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.040 hundred meters of the king, you're not allowed to carry 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.679 eggs in public. And then he goes like, oh, actually, 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.520 like what was if he wants to buy some eggs 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.120 And they're like okay, So they changed it so it's 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.160 like you're allowed to carry eggs as long as you're 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.400 going home from the shops and you've got the receipt. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.680 And I think that was more viral than me actually 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:33.280 doing it, you know what I mean, Like people were like, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.800 you know, that's that's that's Britain for you. Have you 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:38.160 got a license for those eggs? 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.080 You know, I'm imagining you like sliding down an alleyway 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.720 with like a like a like a nineteen forty style 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.360 shoulder holster, but with just like eggs under each. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:53.040 Yir yeah and so and so you know when I so, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.600 I had my trial, you know, which was for yeah, 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:03.200 threatening behavior that made someone feel imminent violence. In the 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.240 wake of that, like I was convicted, I narrowly avoided 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:12.280 six months in prison, which is the sentence that I thought, yeah, yeah, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:16.680 and so, so you know, in my trial, you know, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.200 I had the option to either downplay what I did 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.720 as being like, oh, it's not really violence, it's just 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.520 an egg. But then of course, you know, legally it 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.560 was you know, that could just cancel as a soul. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.040 But then I chose instead to say, Okay, yeah, it 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.920 was violence, but it was legitimate violence because it was 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.600 necessary to resist the far greater violence of the British state, 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.680 you know, citing the historic impact of colonialism. 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.400 He's saying current foreign policy, like the king personally negotiating 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.520 weapons deals with Saudi Arabia. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.120 And then also you know climate breakdown and the way 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.840 in which by continuing to invest in fossil fuels global 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.440 South like intentionally and so therefore, you know, I was 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.560 basically defending the right of you know, acting in defense 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.560 of others with violence. I'm glad I did it, and 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.600 I'd have done much worse. So in the end, actually 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.480 I got one hundred hour. I got one hundred hours 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:11.680 of community service, which was extreme, you know, getting away 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:12.440 with it essentially. 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.080 So, yeah, did you get us? I wondered, was it 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.840 just a situation? Did you just get lucky with a 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.640 judge or like, because that's that's surprising. I'm surprised that 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.640 like that that worked as well as it did in 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:26.480 a positive way. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.440 I think, yeah, yeah, me too. Yeah. I mean I 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:32.720 had a big bag with me with all my light 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:34.480 undies in because I thought I was going down, you know, 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.800 And I think there was partly, yes, getting lucky with 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.520 the judge. Partly I think they were in a really 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.480 difficult position and this is what I wanted to put 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.520 them in essentially, which is that following all of that 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.680 the money, you know, in the lead up to the coronation, 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.920 there was a lot of negative press around around the 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.200 king and the monarchy, and they had a choice between 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.360 either sending me to prison and looking extremely authoritarian and 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.119 blowing out proportion, or letting him get away with it. 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.159 And you know, I think they chose to minimize the 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.960 negative press. You know, I mean, obviously, supposedly there's an 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.720 independent judiciary and there would have been no conversations with 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.399 the palace and the police about the charging procedures. But 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.080 that's a low rubbish but you know, yeah, and so 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.560 but I think I wanted to put them in that 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.199 difficult position because I knew that, like I said, their 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.600 backlash would look worse than what I did. And so 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.760 when I chose to go to the coronation following following 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.960 my conviction, you know, I had to tell my probation officer, look, 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.080 I'm going to the coronation. I am going I'm going 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.840 to peacefully protest. I'm just going to be there, deal 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.320 with it, you know. And basically he told me that 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:48.639 the counter Terrorism Department was seeking an injunction from the 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.840 courts to stop me attending but then the court had 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.720 ruled that no I was allowed to attend. I'd already 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.200 been given my punishment and he wasn't going to put 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.840 any further conditions on me not be allowing allowed to go. 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:02.720 So so but I knew that if I went to 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.280 the coronation and they would arrest me anyway, and it 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.560 would make them look bad, you know. And then they 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.239 they did. You know, I was as well as well 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.320 as all of the organizers. I was there, you know, 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.879 just not my king, blah blah blah. And then and 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:17.439 then I and then I look up and there's a 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.480 little watchtower that they had erected in the center of 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.520 Trafalgar Square, and I just saw that there was about 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.000 seven police officers just all like staring at me and 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.080 filming me from you know, like two hundred meters away. 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.520 And I was like, oh, okay, they're gonna arrest me now. 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.600 So yeah, I gave my phone and my wallet to 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.600 my brother and then smile. And then within seconds, within seconds, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.199 they were just dragging me out, like you know, in handcuffs, 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.280 from the center of a of a crowd of about 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.359 you know, twenty thousand people. And and it honestly couldn't 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:49.200 have looked like more like overtly fascist if they tried, 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.720 and and that was kind of the point. Really is. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:59.760 A man, I uh, such a wild story, but. 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.880 I'm I'm glad you did what you did. 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.560 I'm impressed by the amount of thought that kind of 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.639 went into the optics of it, because it's really the 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.679 only way to turn an egg into an effective weapon, 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:17.719 right is by very careful planning. I'm kind of curious 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.280 where do you see what do you see as the 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:25.800 route forward for both not just kind of opposing the 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:30.639 monarchy in your country, but sort of opposing the overreach 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.720 by the police. This is a problem in more places 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.919 than the United Kingdom, but y'all are kind of on 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.080 one of the cutting edges of sort of global attempts 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:45.399 by law enforcement and its supporters in the state to 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.600 effectively make dissent impossible. Ahead of what everyone knows is 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.280 going to be kind of a heightening period of climate 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.640 based activism. 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.080 Yeah, and so with the climate activist movement in the UK, 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.359 you know, we've seen extinction rebellion active since like twenty eighteen, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.120 and I've been, you know, arrested multiple times with them 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.879 at different actions. You know, the part of their strategy 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:18.720 was that mass arrests, you know, blocking roads, nonviolent direct 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.760 action and civil disobedience would force the government to take action. 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.960 And I think really we're seeing that strategy like having 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.679 run its course. And I think for a while now 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.080 that's been evident that it wasn't working because they've just 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.080 banned the types of protest that we were doing. And 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:41.439 also it was essentially quite naive to believe that, yeah, oh, 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.639 you know, if we cause enough desruption, they're just going 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.960 to put aside all of the you know, lobbying interests 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.640 and their literal role in upholding capitalism to just go, 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.240 oh no, okay, fair enough that they're blocked and roads, 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.920 we are going to like radically transform society to deal 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.080 with climate breakdown. That was never going to work, you know, realistically. 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:06.000 And so so even though you know, we've seen every 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.200 time they pass these these new legislation, there are there's 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.480 a there's a backlash, there's some marches, there's some protests 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.920 that fizzle out, and the state just keep consolidating more 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.720 and more power, and people keep getting more and more 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:20.760 disillusioned with. 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.200 He says, with what an effective strategy of resistance looks 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.560 like and so for me personally, it's something I've been 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.240 thinking about for a while now. 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.200 But recently have is that, you know, we have to 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.359 stop asking politicians through direct democracy at the local level 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:39.320 and essentially you know, using like democratic confederalism, you know, 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:43.639 as they're doing Rajava, to to look at creating a 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:50.040 national network of people's assemblies that builds dual power outside 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.959 of the state. Because because because I think a lot 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.840