1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,640
Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast contains spoilers for the nineteen eighty two

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,399
Speaker 1: film Blade Runner. I mean, like, if you haven't seen

3
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:27,600
Speaker 1: blade Or or legitimately go see it. Gonna find my baby,

4
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 1: Gonna hold her tight, Gonna grab some after noon delight. Ooh,

5
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 1: we're in San Diego, baby. That's right. My name is

6
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,159
Speaker 1: Jason Conceepsio and welcome to x ray Vision, the Crooked

7
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:45,280
Speaker 1: podcast where we dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, comics,

8
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 1: and comic book conventions. That's right, we're in San Diego today. Rosie,

9
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 1: how San.

10
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 2: Diego treating you hot but exciting. It's nice to be back.

11
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 1: It is great to be back. We'll talk a little

12
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 1: bit about what we're doing here in San Diego in

13
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 1: a bit, but first off, here's what you can expect

14
00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 1: in today's action packed episode. On the previously on, we

15
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 1: will talk about Rosie's Den of Geek story coming up, upcoming, big,

16
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 1: big time Dennis Geek story, and we'll be previewing some

17
00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,399
Speaker 1: of the events of comic Con in the airlock. The

18
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,959
Speaker 1: winner of our Summer of nineteen eighty two movie selected

19
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,399
Speaker 1: by you, the listeners of x ray Vision, it is

20
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,000
Speaker 1: Blade Runner Final Cut version. We'll be talking about the

21
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 1: final cut version, also the various other cuts, history of

22
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,479
Speaker 1: the movie, our thoughts on the movie, and our thoughts

23
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,400
Speaker 1: on some of the movies, the other movies from eighty

24
00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 1: two that did not win. In the Hive Mind, Rosie's

25
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 1: got a fantastic interview with Miss Marvel showrunner Bisha Ali,

26
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: which is super cool. In the Nerd Out, listener tells

27
00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,320
Speaker 1: us about RuPaul's drag race, and of course, if you

28
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: want to jump around, check out the time stamps in

29
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 1: the show notes. It's all there for you. All the

30
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: information is there for you. Enjoining me right now from

31
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,359
Speaker 1: San Diego, from a different hotel in San Diego somewhere.

32
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,919
Speaker 2: It's it's only way, It's safe, COVID safety baby, that's right.

33
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:20,000
Speaker 1: She is the number one comic book historian, the expert

34
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,079
Speaker 1: of all things Godzilla, kunk Fu movies, and more. She's

35
00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 1: the great Rosie Night, Rosie. How are you?

36
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,520
Speaker 2: That's always loved. That's that's every week. It's like, if

37
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 2: I'm feeling down, just wait for you to introduce me.

38
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 2: I'll have to stop. So I've been doing it to

39
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,919
Speaker 2: you said the unbelievable. What's going on?

40
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,760
Speaker 1: What's what are you doing?

41
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:39,720
Speaker 3: What do you got.

42
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 1: Wind up for comic com What are you looking forward to?

43
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 2: I will be so I've got what I'm on my

44
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 2: record lowest panels ever this year, which is nice because

45
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,960
Speaker 2: my first year back to San Diegos is twenty nineteen.

46
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be on a Godzilla panel called Godzilla King

47
00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 2: of the Comic Book Monsters, which when you listen to it,

48
00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 2: will be on today on Friday four five pm in

49
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 2: Room four. Going to be talking about my Godzilla comic,

50
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 2: lots of other Godzilla comics, and just a bunch of

51
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 2: Godzilla writers talking about making Godzilla comics, so that'll be

52
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,560
Speaker 2: very cool. I'm also going to be doing a lot

53
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,079
Speaker 2: of hosting. Den Off Geek has a fancy suite where

54
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 2: we'll be doing interviews, so I'll be doing some interviews

55
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,640
Speaker 2: which you'll be able to check out on their YouTube.

56
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,239
Speaker 2: And also my cover story that you mentioned, which is

57
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 2: a big black Adam cover story for Den of Geek magazine.

58
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 2: That's a nice reason to be here because they're just

59
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,480
Speaker 2: giving out everywhere so everyone will be able to read

60
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 2: that and it's been really cool. What are you doing here?

61
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: What am I doing here? I have to interview the

62
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 1: writer of many things, including the Song of Ice and

63
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 1: Fire series George R. Martin on Friday, which is going

64
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 1: to be really fun, and I'm just I'm not coming

65
00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,680
Speaker 1: out of my hotel. My ultimate ultimate ultimate fear is

66
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:06,960
Speaker 1: somehow being implicated in George R. Martin contracting COVID. So

67
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,880
Speaker 1: I'm like absolutely sitting in my room testing every day

68
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 1: and not fucking coming out until I do that. And

69
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: I've got to do a bunch of other interviews with

70
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 1: some cast from House of the Dragon, and then I'm

71
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 1: doing the House of the Dragon panel in halh on Saturday,

72
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,200
Speaker 1: which is I don't get nervous. I'm not a I

73
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:33,839
Speaker 1: literally never get nervous about about live events, about recording,

74
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,960
Speaker 1: about going up on stage, about any stuff. I don't care.

75
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have no I've never been the type

76
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 1: of person who forever reason gets nervous. I get excited,

77
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,039
Speaker 1: but I don't get I get keyed up, but I

78
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,279
Speaker 1: never am like, oh shit, this time. I'm like, I'm

79
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,920
Speaker 1: legitimately like I need to carve out like Friday night

80
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,919
Speaker 1: and Saturday morning and just like drill down on names,

81
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 1: on putting names to faces, on character names, on questions.

82
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 1: I'm going to say. Now. The thing that I keep

83
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,320
Speaker 1: telling myself is nobody's there to see me. They don't care.

84
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 1: Nobody cares if I could die up there, and nobody

85
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,040
Speaker 1: cared some.

86
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 2: X Ray Vision fans there definitely is. It's nice to

87
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 2: feel the to be the moderator is a is a

88
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:31,040
Speaker 2: hard balance between being interesting but not being too interesting

89
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,039
Speaker 2: and making sure that everyone who is actually there to

90
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,919
Speaker 2: talk gets to talk. The worst thing is if you

91
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 2: have a moderator who just talks too much, like everyone

92
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,480
Speaker 2: can now, you're gonna be great. And also, I mean

93
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 2: congratulations because pol h that's the big one. Like any

94
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,359
Speaker 2: as our listeners will know, that's like the place to

95
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,360
Speaker 2: announce something, to moderate something, I mean, that's huge.

96
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,799
Speaker 1: It is Uh, I'm peeing a little in my pants.

97
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,119
Speaker 1: I'm dead serious. This is that I have not felt

98
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 1: this way in a long time. So I'm just gonna

99
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,200
Speaker 1: research my way out of it, and then I've got

100
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 1: that to kill it, and then after that just interviews

101
00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,839
Speaker 1: and stuff, and then I'm gonna and then I'm gonna

102
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,479
Speaker 1: get in a car and go back to Los Angeles,

103
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna fly to the wrap party for

104
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 1: Primo the TV show. We're filming with Chase Rhino, and

105
00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 1: so hopefully, somehow, some way we just all avoid COVID.

106
00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,080
Speaker 2: I believe in you, no, no, no, I feel you.

107
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 2: I can see our hotel room, you can see my

108
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,119
Speaker 2: hotelm both nice hotels, both close to the convention Center.

109
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 2: I believe we can do it. I usually love Comic

110
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 2: Con is like one of my favorite things in the world.

111
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, I dreamed of going here,

112
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,839
Speaker 2: and I used to come every year and all my

113
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 2: friends are on artist Ali and I would walk around

114
00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,920
Speaker 2: and this is the first place I ever met Grant Morrison.

115
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,560
Speaker 2: This is the first place I ever met the Hernandez brothers.

116
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,720
Speaker 2: But this year, I'm raining it in I'm hotel room,

117
00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 2: I'm watching things, I'm writing. I'm just it can't we

118
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,839
Speaker 2: can't risk it. It's not what they Also, I'm going

119
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 2: to a I've got a screening on Monday, like this

120
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 2: wild screening for Nope, the new Jordan Heal movie. And

121
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 2: it's like a ranch and there's gonna be like riding

122
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,480
Speaker 2: a horse, and I'm like I can Yeah.

123
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, second, where is it?

124
00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 2: Where are they doing this item like a ranch somewhere. Yeah,

125
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 2: you have to get like a you have to get

126
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 2: like a trolley out there, Like, I guess they're gonna

127
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 2: people are gonna be able to pay for it. But

128
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 2: they were like, do you want to come and taking

129
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 2: my friend, my amazing friend James who's also a great

130
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 2: comics writer. And yeah. So I'm like, that's my I

131
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 2: can't get sick, that's my Primo's wrap party. I'm like,

132
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: I can't miss it. We've both got reasons to stay

133
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 2: safe aside trying to our own.

134
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 1: Health, just trying to avoid it. Okay, Up next, some

135
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 1: comic con predictions and more on the previously on segment.

136
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 1: Be It Back this week on Keep It, writer and

137
00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:03,160
Speaker 1: self proclaimed rom commosseur Bulu Bubbaalola is guest hosting listen

138
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 1: in for her thoughts on Lizzo's new album and everything

139
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,520
Speaker 1: that is Benever two point zero plus. They'll be joined

140
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 1: by singer Hailey Kyoko. I love Hailey Kyoko. She's fucking great.

141
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 1: Listen to the new episode of Keep It every Wednesday

142
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. We're back first time previously

143
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 1: on Rosie, Let's clear the Lane and let's get you

144
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 1: to talk about this really huge cover story that you're

145
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,880
Speaker 1: doing over at Den of Geek that they are just

146
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 1: promoting the shit out of which is awesome.

147
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's been very wild. So I love Den

148
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,080
Speaker 2: of Geek. I've written there a lot. My main edit

149
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,839
Speaker 2: is Mike and Chris really great. And Mike reached out

150
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 2: to me and was like, Hey, I've got this thing.

151
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 2: I can't tell you what it is. Do you want

152
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,600
Speaker 2: to do it? He was like, I think you want

153
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,079
Speaker 2: to do it? And I was like, yeah, I mean probably,

154
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,360
Speaker 2: And I wasn't sure. I was like, is it mission impossible?

155
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 2: Like what could be this secret? And then you know,

156
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 2: eventually I found out it was for Black Adam and

157
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,520
Speaker 2: I went to Warner Brothers to the studio lot and

158
00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 2: I got to sit down with Dwayne Johnson and interview

159
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 2: him one on one. He is exactly as incredible as

160
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,559
Speaker 2: you'd think he would be. Like you meet him and

161
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 2: you're just like, wow, this, I know why you're the rock,

162
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,520
Speaker 2: Like you are just the greatest, nicest. He puts you

163
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,200
Speaker 2: on an equal footing. Like. The conversation was really great.

164
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,400
Speaker 2: I came out of it feeling very good. And then

165
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 2: I also got to interview all four members of the JSA,

166
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,520
Speaker 2: so yeah, which is like really wild because I love

167
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 2: Alvis Hodge who plays Hawkman. He was great that interviews,

168
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 2: So it's a big profile feature of Dwayne and the

169
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 2: information about like making the movie, the fifteen journey, fifteen

170
00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 2: year journey to make the movie. And then there's four

171
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 2: Q and as One without his Hold who plays Hawkman.

172
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 2: I love him. I interviewed him for The Invisible Man,

173
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:56,000
Speaker 2: which is great. And then Quintessa Swindell who plays Cyclone,

174
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 2: who's just one of the coolest people you'll ever meet.

175
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,400
Speaker 2: Noah sent Me who plays Adam Smasher, who was on

176
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:03,800
Speaker 2: vacation so he had to do it a little bit

177
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 2: of a different way. And then I actually got to

178
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 2: interview Pierce Brosnin who played Doctor Fate. So that was

179
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,480
Speaker 2: the one where I was just like, oh my god.

180
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's when this episode comes out. It

181
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 2: will be out. It comes out on Thursday at San Diego.

182
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 2: It's free at San Diego Comic Con. Anyone can just

183
00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 2: pick up them. They give them out outside everywhere. You'll

184
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 2: see Dwane on the front looking really cool, and if

185
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,040
Speaker 2: you're not a San Diego they actually stock them at

186
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 2: a lot of free comic book shops a lot of

187
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,840
Speaker 2: comic book shops for free. You can check online to

188
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 2: see if your comic shop list them, and if you

189
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 2: do want to definitely get one, you can. You can

190
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,959
Speaker 2: join the mailing list, where I think it's nine to

191
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 2: ninety nine a month and you get four issues a year.

192
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,720
Speaker 2: I usually write like one thing at least in most issues.

193
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's really cool and it's really surreal, but

194
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 2: I'm really excited. I love the JSA, so it's nice

195
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 2: to get to nerd out about the men and Dwyane

196
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 2: really loves the JSA. He was really oh my god,

197
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 2: it was actually he loves Black Adam. Yeah, like that's

198
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 2: like his connection. But he just wanted to know. He's like, like,

199
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,960
Speaker 2: why what did I feel like as someone who liked

200
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 2: because I've written a lot about the JSA, a lot

201
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,240
Speaker 2: of like history about them, and he just really wanted

202
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 2: to know, like did I had I wondered, like why

203
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 2: the JSA hadn't had a movie before? And it's like yes,

204
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,520
Speaker 2: like Austin actually. So it's really great to meet someone

205
00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,560
Speaker 2: who's just so passionate about it, and then for it

206
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,400
Speaker 2: to be coming out San Diego, which obviously so important

207
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 2: to us, and then you know, on Saturday, that's all

208
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,400
Speaker 2: the big stuff your panel. Dwayne is doing a big

209
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,359
Speaker 2: hall h panel for Black Adam and obviously the Marvel Panels.

210
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 1: Marvel panel where we expect big things to.

211
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 2: Go off, big things happening, big things.

212
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 1: Happening, folks, let's go there. Next screen rant had some

213
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 1: interesting details about what to expect, perhaps from the MCU

214
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 1: at their up their upcoming panel. Their last Marvel's last

215
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 1: comic Con panel was twenty nineteen, and they've been doing

216
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,400
Speaker 1: their D twenty three stuff. Their panel will first panel

217
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: is on Friday the twenty second, so when by the

218
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,000
Speaker 1: time you're hearing this, it's probably happened. And that's the

219
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 1: panel that's going to cover animation with Brad Winderbaum, who

220
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 1: has kind of worked his way up through Marvel from

221
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 1: working on the movies to now epeeing on almost everything

222
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,400
Speaker 1: they do, certainly on the TV side, we expect looks

223
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,280
Speaker 1: at X Men ninety seven very exciting.

224
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,840
Speaker 2: That's definitely going to be the big thing for that panel,

225
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,320
Speaker 2: and I think like we might get a little hint

226
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,120
Speaker 2: at how much X Men ninety seven is going to

227
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,400
Speaker 2: be cannon and important to the Munts in the MCU,

228
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 2: because I think that seems to be where they're going

229
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:46,040
Speaker 2: with it.

230
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I've been thinking about this actually since

231
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,839
Speaker 1: the last time we all got together and spoke in

232
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 1: a meeting. It really feels like X Men ninety seven

233
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:04,360
Speaker 1: is there to number one, kind of establish the X

234
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 1: Men as a team in people's minds. We haven't. They

235
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,080
Speaker 1: haven't certainly have not appeared in the MCU as of yet,

236
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 1: and it's been a number of years since the last

237
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 1: x movie, which maybe you know it wasn't great. You

238
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,920
Speaker 1: know it wasn't great. I liked some of it.

239
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, X Men movies, that's a that's a complex thing,

240
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 4: and I would I'm very excited to see I've seen

241
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 4: every X Men movie many many times.

242
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,040
Speaker 2: I'm excited to see a new iteration because I think,

243
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 2: in hindsight, a lot of the problems that the later

244
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,559
Speaker 2: X Men movies have there is a direct direct lineage

245
00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,480
Speaker 2: to the whole way that that property was treated. So

246
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,079
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be really exciting, and I think

247
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,080
Speaker 2: it's I think something that's really cool about this X

248
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,040
Speaker 2: Men ninety seven thing. This is a great example of

249
00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:01,199
Speaker 2: listening to what has kept your fandom alive. Yeah, fans

250
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 2: of this cartoon are like one of the most intense

251
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 2: beloved fandoms. This cartoon shaped so many lives, so many

252
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,079
Speaker 2: people's love of the X Men introduce so many people

253
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,400
Speaker 2: to Marvel comics, and I really love that this is

254
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,920
Speaker 2: one of the ways that Disney is deciding and Marvel

255
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 2: is deciding to bring back the X Men into the

256
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 2: fold after the Fox ownership or Fox license.

257
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,160
Speaker 1: I should say we should also expect to see on

258
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 1: this from this Friday panel some Marvel Zombies stuff, certainly

259
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 1: maybe peeks into what if season two and more, And

260
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: then of course on Saturday, that's the big, big talk

261
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 1: about it. Next that's the big stuff. We will recap

262
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 1: all of this stuff on our next episode, but almost

263
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 1: guaranteed we're going to get first looks at Wakanda Forever

264
00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 1: ant Man in the Lost Quantumnia, Guardians of the Gallicy,

265
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 1: maybe the Holiday special, perhaps Blade. Maybe we'll see Marhrshela

266
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,440
Speaker 1: in the full Blade costume.

267
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 2: I would love that with the long jacket.

268
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 1: Perhaps. Now here's where we get a little bit, uh,

269
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, theorize are we gonna are we gonna have

270
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 1: any announcements about the Fantastic Four? Are we gonna have

271
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 1: any announcements about the Mutants. Let's see, speaking of the Mutants.

272
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 2: UH.

273
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 1: This Wednesday, Deadline UH listed the Mutants as the title

274
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 1: of the potential upcoming X Men movie and listed it

275
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,920
Speaker 1: as among the things that we are likely to see

276
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 1: in holl age. So the quote from Deadline, after listing

277
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: all the stuff that we just said, closes with quote,

278
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,360
Speaker 1: there's still some stuff we haven't seen, specifically the Fantastic

279
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 1: four reboot. Mahershall la Ali in Blade, Guardians of the

280
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 1: Galaxy Volume three, the Marvels, and the Mutants. I, uh,

281
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 1: what do you think? What are your okay? What is

282
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,239
Speaker 1: your initial reaction to the Mutants?

283
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 2: First of all, I know that it's hard to write

284
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 2: up news, but I like that they called they said,

285
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 2: marsh Lai and the Blade. I would like to see

286
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 2: the Blade the Blade. Yeah, so I think that's very interesting.

287
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 2: I I don't know if I necessarily think. I think

288
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 2: it would be very bold if they made their first

289
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,360
Speaker 2: X Men movie not with the word the x Men

290
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 2: in it, with the words I think the Mutants. Like

291
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 2: Eric at nerdists is just so brilliant. We were talking

292
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 2: about earlier, and he made a really good point where

293
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,680
Speaker 2: he was like, this sounds like it could be a

294
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 2: TV show that establishes the world of the Mutants before

295
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: we see them form the X Men. Now, I would

296
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 2: love a movie called The Mutants where it's pre the

297
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,080
Speaker 2: X Men forming. I think that would be really brave.

298
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 2: And then the X Men movie is you know, the

299
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,879
Speaker 2: third fourth MCU style Avengers type movie. I don't know.

300
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 2: The X Men brand is like so powerful. I think

301
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,159
Speaker 2: it would be really bold though, and I would like it.

302
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 2: I would like it, just there's so many things that

303
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 2: could mean, like is it a Morlocks movie? Like is

304
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 2: it a new Mutant movie but a real new NX movie?

305
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,120
Speaker 2: Is it hell Fire Club movie? Is it a you know,

306
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 2: my dream has long been like a which will surprise

307
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,280
Speaker 2: nobody listening to this, but but Charles Xavier School for

308
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 2: Gifted young becers focused but like focused on the kids

309
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,920
Speaker 2: while the adults are out fighting or the older students

310
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,440
Speaker 2: and kind of focusing on them and how they train

311
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 2: and how they you know, who they ship and all

312
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 2: that kind of like fun teenage drama, but with the

313
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,680
Speaker 2: background of The X Men. I would love to see

314
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,639
Speaker 2: something like that. I also think, you know, the Mutants,

315
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 2: like we said, we're introducing all these different things, the Eternals,

316
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:06,120
Speaker 2: the clandestine Talo, more about committage. Maybe the Mutants is

317
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 2: going to introduce us to that secret world that we've

318
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 2: been talking about where it's like, this is the Mutants

319
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 2: because this is the world that they've been living in.

320
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 2: I think that could be very interesting. What do you

321
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:17,439
Speaker 2: think I.

322
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:24,159
Speaker 1: My initial reaction was, I wonder if this is true.

323
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 1: I wonder if Marvel is going for a kind of

324
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 1: Avengers style structure in which we have various movies that

325
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,199
Speaker 1: introduce these characters. So the Mutants would introduce you know,

326
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm just making stuff up now, but Scott Summers and

327
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 1: gene As kids, maybe after they've just joined this secretive

328
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,399
Speaker 1: upstate New York Academy for young Hidden Mutants or for

329
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 1: something like that, and then we build towards an ex

330
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,159
Speaker 1: Men team up movie where the X Men movies are

331
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 1: the team up movies, and then the Mutants and the

332
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 1: other movies like that are the kind of standing I

333
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 1: think that's a perfect Wolverine s Exavior, Magneto Storm movies

334
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 1: where they have their own like kind of like cast

335
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,439
Speaker 1: of characters with their own solo movies, and then everybody

336
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 1: teams up in the X Men. I wonder if if

337
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: this is a hint that they could be going that way.

338
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 2: I think that makes a lot of sense because if

339
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 2: we look at their X Men comics that we love,

340
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 2: especially like that Chris Claremont run that we're always talking about,

341
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 2: it's all about that long lead, slow burn storytelling, which

342
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,879
Speaker 2: was very much that original Phase one MCU stuff. So

343
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: you know, the chance to meet these characters in their

344
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 2: own different worlds and spaces and see them come together

345
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 2: slowly over time in a way that feels earned, and

346
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 2: learn about how who gets picked for the team, you know,

347
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,600
Speaker 2: the things like I'd love to see that fight between

348
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 2: you know, Scott and Storm about who becomes head teacher. Like,

349
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 2: there's so many good things you could do if you

350
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 2: take your time with it, and it's not just like

351
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 2: here's the original five and they have powers and the

352
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 2: government doesn't like them. I think Kevin is he is

353
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 2: ambitious enough and has enough money and creative control that

354
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 2: I would really like to see them do something like

355
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 2: that where they take they understand that this is the

356
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 2: next twenty years of the MCU. Yeah.

357
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's the way that we got here. Is

358
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 1: this really unique, the kind of release format which no

359
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 1: one had ever tried before, where you have these solo

360
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 1: movies for characters that at the time people were like

361
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: does anybody give a shit about?

362
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,439
Speaker 2: H Yeah, most people did not know who Iron Mom was.

363
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 2: They don't want to say the Captain America. That was

364
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 2: an outdated character no one really cared about. Like that's true,

365
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

366
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,919
Speaker 1: And you're building towards this moment where all these characters,

367
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,239
Speaker 1: now you've established them in their own movies, with their

368
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: own adventures and their own cast of characters, which I

369
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: think is actually kind of important having that. You know,

370
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: think about doctor Eric Selviig and that he's done and

371
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 1: how important he's been to like kind of like Wider Happy,

372
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 1: Pepa Darcy, like all these characters who came in through

373
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: the solo movies who were then like really important in

374
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: kind of like populating the MCU and making it feel

375
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 1: like a real, live universe with all these people walking around.

376
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: I say, true, I wonder if the Mutants is a

377
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: hint that they're going to do that, because it you know,

378
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: this is how they got there, this is how they

379
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 1: got here, and I think it makes more sense than

380
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 1: just doing you know, because for me, I think what

381
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 1: I love the X Men movies, particularly Extat, you know,

382
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: even if they're bad, I fucking liked him, you know, like,

383
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: even when they're killing characters that should not die. I

384
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: was like five pr rip Darwin. But the thing that

385
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: made it hard is that you had all these X

386
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: Men movies and you couldn't because the cast is so huge.

387
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: Barely spend any tea, you barely spend any time with

388
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: Scott Die's fucking off camera, Barely spend any time with Nightcrawler,

389
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, like, barely spend any time with Storm. I

390
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: want to spend time with these characters because, you know, selfishly,

391
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 1: because I love them, And I think that listen, that's

392
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: how you establish the Avengers. Why not establish the X

393
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: Men that way, where you give them their own projects

394
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: and then have everybody you build towards this crescendo of

395
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: a team up movie. I think that would be cool.

396
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: I think it would be really cool. I hope that

397
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 2: I hope that this Muman's reporting is true, and I

398
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: really yeah, I hope we get to see something like that,

399
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: because that would be very cool.

400
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: That said, let's do a let's do a quick fan cast.

401
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 2: Let's cast.

402
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: Let's cast our mcu X men team, and you can

403
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: just like we can just pick whoever we want. It

404
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be giant size, it doesn't need to

405
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: be Yeah, we can just He's just people that you like.

406
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: Do you want to start?

407
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 3: Oh?

408
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: This is so hard I think about all the time. Okay,

409
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 2: I'll go with one of my favorite fan casts, which

410
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: would be a very different version, but I do like

411
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: the idea of it, So I'll start with Wolverine. I

412
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,239
Speaker 2: think there's so many different ways they could go. I

413
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 2: am a I'm a short king Wolverine Stan, but that

414
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: is not the rest I'm going to go right now,

415
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: because I don't really think I have a I'm still

416
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 2: in contention, like would I would I like to see

417
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: like John David Washington as Wolverine. Yes, I think he's

418
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: very stand But this is I'm going to go with.

419
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: So Keanu Reeves. We love him, Everyone loves him right

420
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: he when he was a kid. He's like a young actor.

421
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 2: His dream was to play Wolverine. And I actually think

422
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: in a world of old man logan, of a world

423
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 2: where we've seen a young Wolverine growing up in in

424
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: inverted comments because he's immortal, but we've seen Hugh Jackman

425
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: on that journey. I think it'd be very interesting. Wolverine's old.

426
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 2: He can be as old as you want to be.

427
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 2: Three hundred years old, you can be one thousand years old,

428
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: you can be however.

429
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: Odd I I.

430
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: Changes depending on the cannon of the story in the timeline.

431
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: I think it'd be really cool to see Keanu get

432
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 2: to take on that role, have an older, grizzled Wolverine

433
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: who really gets to play that father figure. That's something

434
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: that we love so much about him. I think it

435
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 2: would be really cool to have an Asian Canadian actor.

436
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 2: You know, Wolverines are famously Canadian character. A lot of

437
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: his story arcs have have taken from It's specifically Japanese

438
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: kind of culture and stuff. I think it could be

439
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: very cool to see Keanu take that on. He's done

440
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: a lot of storytelling in that world already, you know

441
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: I would. I think that could be so cool. But

442
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: I also I like to cast like an old like.

443
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: I like to cast old and young together with That's

444
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 2: why I did with my My Fantastic Forecast at nerdist

445
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,959
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. That really popped off. So

446
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: I think that would be really cool.

447
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: You know what, I don't even want to argue against that.

448
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: I mightn't convinced. I think that that's actually a great

449
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: because now that I'm thinking about it, what would be

450
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: really cool to me is like quote unquote teenage you know,

451
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: obviously they're you know, early twenties in reality, but like

452
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: in the movie, like late teens, Cyclops it Iceman, Bobby Jean,

453
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, throw out the throw out the love triangle

454
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: if she is young three hundred, but you know what

455
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: I mean. And then this older like grizzled mutant who's

456
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: been through it is like your kids don't know what

457
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: the fuck you're talking about. Somebody get me some beer.

458
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: I think that that would actually be really good. And

459
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: so along those lines, well, first let me go, let

460
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: me do the Elder States people first. Magneto Eric Eric

461
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: Lincher Uh obviously one of the most important Jewish characters

462
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: in comics period. So for me got to be a

463
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: Jewish actor, it's probably unless you're gonna do something with

464
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, Hydra or yeah, yeah, yeah, alternate to mention,

465
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: it wouldn't make it.

466
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: It just I think to be such a.

467
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: Credulity for him to be a holocaust of everybody could

468
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: be like the grandchild of survivors. So I was thinking, uh,

469
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: live live Schreber.

470
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: Oh that's really interesting.

471
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: A great voiceover guy, of course. Uh have seen him

472
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: in a Wolverine movie. Uh, and you know, star of

473
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: numerous television shows and movies.

474
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: From the screen franchise, so I'll always know him. Every

475
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: time I see him. I'm just like, oh, it's call

476
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 2: him weary, wrongly imprisoned but still sucks.

477
00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: So that is my pick for Eric Lyncher Magneto. Who

478
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: would you like to go?

479
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that Magneto casting is so good. I

480
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: think you're right. I think the biggest thing that they're

481
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: going to come up against in this space is finding

482
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: a way to recontextualize that aspect of his character to

483
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: make it fitting. You know, if I do want it

484
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: to be a Jewish actor. But I do have to say,

485
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: like I've been watching The Bear, that kid, the main

486
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: kid from The Bear, would be such a good young Magneto.

487
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: But Marvel cast a Jewish actor, so ignore me. I

488
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: don't know if he's Jewish. The characters Italian American, so

489
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: who knows. Also, my other best Jewish actor that I

490
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: always cast for stuff is like Mirro. I always say

491
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: they should cast, they should cast Mirro is the thing, right?

492
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: That would be so good because the thing's Jewish. I

493
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: like that. I would love that. Okay, so let's say

494
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: we'll go with the leave Schreiber. I like that. Who

495
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: would we do for Charles? Charles? That is such an

496
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: important chemistry, It's just like, really is absolutely vital. I

497
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: feel like in the modern MCU and when we're very

498
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 2: aware of the analogues that that X meniment to represent,

499
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: I think that a black Charles Xavier is quite likely

500
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: and would make a lot of sense. So I would

501
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: definitely like to see Marvel go that route. I think

502
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: that the rumor at the moment, one of the many

503
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: rumors from absolutely unconfirmed is g and Carlo Esposito.

504
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: I like that. I think that's really intrigued. I'm intrigued

505
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: by that. Let me raise this issue, you know, of

506
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: late in current X Men comics, and you know X

507
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: Men runs stretching back say ten years or so. As

508
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: we've talked about in previous episodes, the X Men have

509
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: become and I think necessarily become a more radical fit

510
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: they you know, Sky in particular broke dramatically with Charles's

511
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: dream once it became clear that listen, the humans are

512
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: just never going to fucking accept us any time.

513
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: But he got that.

514
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even our friends the Avengers, Captain America, et cetera,

515
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: are seemingly never around when we're getting genocided in our

516
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: millions and hundreds of thousands. Does it? And I'm just

517
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: asking the question. I don't know the answer to this,

518
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: and obviously that we haven't even seen the X Men

519
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: yet and we don't know what the framing is. I

520
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: also think there's an interesting world in which if you

521
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: take the radical X Men perspective, you've got a kind

522
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: of like almost naive white charge.

523
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's actually a really good call.

524
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: And I think that in that way you can do

525
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: something really interesting, because Charles is can essentially be your

526
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: bleeding hot liberal. You know, he believes in these outdated

527
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: ideas that don't protect the people that he loves, even

528
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: though he really is idealistic and believes that they should.

529
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: And I think that could be like really interesting. I also,

530
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: I think gian Carlo works for me because I am

531
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: a I love Charles Xavier, but I'm definitely a bit

532
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: of I'm a Charles Xavier critic at the same time,

533
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: and I feel like he could do a really good

534
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: job of He could melt that kind of kind, loving

535
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: heart that Charles needs. But he can also have that

536
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: coolness of someone who would send kids into like a

537
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: war like children and would and would erase, erase and

538
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: suppress the memories of his.

539
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: Closest don't even get me confidence and classmates and students.

540
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: What a school.

541
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: Even though even though by the way, he said he

542
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: would never do that and he doesn't do that, and

543
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: he does reach into people's memories with Lenny. He does

544
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: it all the.

545
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: He's always doing that.

546
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: He is always doing absolutely love it, just loves it.

547
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: Loves to wipe a brain. And that would probably come

548
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: up in how people don't know about the mutants. Actually,

549
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised at all if we find out

550
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: that at least one of the characters that we already

551
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: know in the MCU did have some knowledge of mutants

552
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: or discovered them and they ended up having that brainwiped

553
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: or being forgotten.

554
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: I am firmly and I mean firm like you know,

555
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: obviously this is all conjecture. But the thing about the

556
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: mutants that I feel pretty confident about is that when

557
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: we do introduce Slogan, he's going to be part of

558
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: some super super, super super secret part of the Super

559
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: Soldier program.

560
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: Oh for sure.

561
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: We know it didn't stop when they lost Cap in

562
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: the Ice, right, they just kept going and going and going.

563
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: So he's gonna be you know, he was probably in

564
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: maybe in Korea, maybe in Vietnam, maybe in the Middle East,

565
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: just a brainwashed killing machine under the employ of shadowy

566
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: government military industrial corporations. I think that will be something

567
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: that will happen, meaning that there's got to be various

568
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: scientists and people mh that know about his existence. Yeah, okay,

569
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: let's see. I'm gonna go with let me how about Storm.

570
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: We need Storm and there's and there's got a you know,

571
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: Storm has to have presence. And for me, this maybe

572
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: is an obvious choice, but I want to I want

573
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: to see uh Lupita Niango in this role.

574
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think that's like such a smart role.

575
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: I always I always wondered after they cast as Nakia

576
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: and Black Panther whether or not they were going to

577
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: kind of try and retro convert them into the same character.

578
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: And I did read a a rumor of late about

579
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: the possibility of Azari, who is Storm and to Charlie's

580
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: son from Next Avengers and some com I had a

581
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: rumor he may be in the movie, so I wonder.

582
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: I When Michayla Cole got announced in Black Panther two,

583
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: I was so happy to see the internet be like

584
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: Storm because I would just love that it would be

585
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: such an unexpected casting, and she's so well known for

586
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: her comedy. But then to see her, you know, in

587
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: her recent brilliant HBO show I May Destroy You, showed

588
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: that it's not just a comedic range, it's like a

589
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: really big dramatic range. So I just I think that

590
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 2: could be really interesting. But I think Lapeter would be

591
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: That's the level that I think you need to have

592
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: for a Storm casting, which is like Oscar Award winning

593
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: icon because Storm, and I do think as well, Storm

594
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: is that's the character you have to get right right

595
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: in the X Men, now, that is the character people

596
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 2: wear on T shirts. That was not the case that

597
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: those T shirts weren't available when we were kids, sadly,

598
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: because Storm's always been a badass. But to me, like,

599
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: if you get Storm right, you're probably on the right track,

600
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 2: and I would love to know what the world is.

601
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: One of my old dream Storm castings and they absolutely

602
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: teased me with this. In Black Panther was Angela Bassett

603
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: and Angela with the white dreads in Black Panther just

604
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 2: looks like Storm, and I was like, how could you guys,

605
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: how could you do this to me?

606
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: So you hinted at how it would work. You know,

607
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: obviously Nakia already part of a secret society Panda that

608
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: was hidden from the world, so it'd be like a

609
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: secret society inside of a secret society. Either she's a

610
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: mutant whose powers hadn't developed exactly or Charles brainwise, I was.

611
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: Going to say, it's something about having her powers repressed,

612
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: or being in Wakanda near vibranium or the Purple Up

613
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: or something. It would be very easy to explain why

614
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: those powers had never manifested earlier. I always wondered if

615
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: that was something they were going to do, so I

616
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: think that would be controversial but cool because also, like

617
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: Storm's comic book backstory is very of its time. It's

618
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: not bad, but it's just like I don't think anyone

619
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 2: would be devastated to have Lapeita playing Storm.

620
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: And I just want to see more of her. That's

621
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: also selfishly. Oh absolutely, who else do you have?

622
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so I I think if we're going to go

623
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: young for the kind of core members like Cyclops and

624
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: Gene and stuff, I am number one. We don't talk

625
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: about it on the show very much, even though it's

626
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: a comic book thing. But it's just so outrageous you

627
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: to talk about one episode, you need like five seasons

628
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: of a podcast. But I love Riverdale and I actually think.

629
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: One of the most off the rail television show.

630
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 2: If you like weird ship, if you thought Twin Peaks

631
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: wasn't weird enough, then watch Riverdale. And also if you

632
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 2: like comic book storytelling, just skip to the late like

633
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: the last two seasons, because Roberto Aguaisakassa, who was the

634
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: the creative of the show and who is an Archie

635
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: writer who made a gay Archie musical that got ceased

636
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: and desisted many many years ago, and then became the

637
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: creative the chief creative officer of Archie Comics, which is

638
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: probably the best origin story ever. He really loves comic

639
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: books and he loves Archie and he does some absolutely

640
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: just bonkers ship in the newer stuff with the way

641
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: they use timelines and comic books as part of the narrative.

642
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: But I think kJ Apple would be like a very

643
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 2: good Scott Summers.

644
00:36:59,520 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: He is.

645
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: He's so good as Archie, and he has this kind

646
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: of stoic seriousness that I think Scott needs. But he

647
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: also has a naivety that I also think Scott needs.

648
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: But he can he can kind of play that that

649
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: middle ground between being the jock and being the boy

650
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: next door, and I think that's the version of Scott

651
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: they're gonna do. I prefer. The first time I thought

652
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: Scott was an interesting character that I actually liked and

653
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: wanted to know more about was in New x Men

654
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 2: when he was having like the psychic affair with Emma.

655
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: I thought that version of him is very interesting. But

656
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: I think, why wouldn't you try and make a young

657
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 2: X Men team that you can stay with for ten

658
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: fifteen years, Like that would be the smart choice, So

659
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: I think going younger makes sense.

660
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: New x Men and Astonishing x Men were the two

661
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: properties where I was just like, Wow, Psyclops is really

662
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: a fascinating because up to that point, and I think

663
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: this has kind of been a problem in the movies

664
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: to picture that.

665
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the film depictions of Scott's James.

666
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's but there it's a little bit of

667
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: like why do people follow this guy?

668
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: Happen? Yeah? What is he?

669
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: Why is why does everybody fall in line behind Scott?

670
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: Just because like Charles told him to and then it

671
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: wasn't until New X Men and then Astonishing that really

672
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: brought out just it, and I thought it in a

673
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: really smart way. Because he can just destroy anything he

674
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: looks at. He's got to be in control all the time. Yeah,

675
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: and so he's always thinking about how do I keep

676
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: control of everything that's happening. How do I think about

677
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: every possible thing that could possibly go wrong when he's

678
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: bouncing his optic beams off of stuff. He's just got

679
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: to understand these angles and these different approaches. He is

680
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: an absolute control freak and also that kind of jock

681
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: boy next door. There's like an edge to him that

682
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: isn't always evident. I think it sometimes it gets played as, oh,

683
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: he's he's scared open his eyes if he doesn't have

684
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: his visor, he doesn't know what it's actually like freeing

685
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: to him to just like cut loose. But he's also

686
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: like a little scared of it, and I think if

687
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: whoever they find to do it, if they can crack

688
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: that code, I'm really excited to see, uh who Scott

689
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: Summers can can be on film now for Jene for

690
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: his let me let me run something by it, Okay,

691
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: I want to hear it, Sadie sinc.

692
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: I mean absolutely, what if you're a redheaded actress and

693
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: you're known for being a redhead, you're gonna get cast

694
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: his Jean Gray sounds a staf right. When not costing

695
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: happened to all of us were like, oh my god,

696
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: of course, fucking course, Sadie Sink would absolutely love it.

697
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 2: I also think we're going young, We're going recast somebody

698
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: younger as KG if that was the case. But I

699
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: will say I very much like the idea of a

700
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 2: very young Gene who is very much trying to be

701
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: in control of her powers but isn't because she's a

702
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: fucking child, and who is being both looked after and manipulated.

703
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: I think there's I think there's just something really cool. Also,

704
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: look at the stories that are popular Sadie Sink from

705
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: Stranger Things right, that show does not exist without the

706
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: X Men. Eleven is just Jean Gray eleven is just

707
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: stre and Gray, right, But that story hits so hard,

708
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: this notion of a young girl being experimented on in

709
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: this horrible way, who has these unbelievable powers, and her

710
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: trying to find like a found family. That's an X

711
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 2: Men story and I would really love to see them.

712
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: And we know Sadie has ranged. This is not even

713
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: just stranger things like the Taylor Swift video. I think

714
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: everyone was like super blown away by her performance in

715
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 2: that and the kind of emotional depth where she definitely

716
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: was playing like a little bit older. And I think

717
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: that's brilliant, and I think you could build a really

718
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: really interesting cost around an actual teenage Jean Gray.

719
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: Here's my other reasoning behind just thinking that it's kind

720
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: of important because we want to establish that school aspect.

721
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: I think you have to you have to flesh out

722
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: Gene in a way that is separate and distinct from Wanda,

723
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: who has, as we have said, as you have pointed

724
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: out multiple times, so has has to this point in Nampse,

725
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: you basically been Jean Gray, but an adult Gene. And

726
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: so I think to your point, younger, not even not

727
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: in control of her powers, doesn't know what her powers

728
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: are because Charles has wiped that part of her.

729
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, exactly exactly.

730
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: And you know, and and that's what I think, and

731
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: kind of like that very that generous, you know, big

732
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: hearted kind of character who is the emotional support for everyone,

733
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: but it's also just like super young, very naive, the

734
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: kind of character who is powerful, but you would worry about, yeah,

735
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: going into a fight with you know, the brotherhood.

736
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 2: Of Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. You know that she can

737
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: hold her own, but also you just don't want her

738
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: to have to because she's a baby. Yeah. I think

739
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: that's really I think that's brilliant costing.

740
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: Who do you have next? I'm like, we'll do a

741
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 1: couple more.

742
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, yeah, this is my favorite game. I could

743
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: just I could absolutely do this all day. I think.

744
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: So another person that I think they have to get

745
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: right absolutely is Rogue, especially because I think that you

746
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 2: you brought up a really brilliant point about Rogue and

747
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: Captain Marvel Carol Danvers and the connection that they have

748
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: in the comics and this space where they exist as

749
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: almost one character and Rogue's journey, and that to me

750
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: seems like an arc that you would want to explore, right,

751
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 2: So I just I think about this all the time,

752
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: and I'm always watching some show and I'll be like,

753
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: they should cost that girl as Rogue or something. But

754
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, who who would it be?

755
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 5: Now?

756
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 1: Let me, would you also go young with Rogue?

757
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: Like I think, I think if you could find the

758
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: right actor. I mean, let's not the one thing I

759
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: think the MCU is really good at, especially Kevin Fige right,

760
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: replicating the things he's seen in the past in a

761
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: way that is reflected but not copied. So I don't

762
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: I think that we will likely get a gruffer, older

763
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: Wolverine or a gruffer, younger Wolverine. But I think that

764
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: you're still going to have that youthful Anna Paquin is

765
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: so young in that role and brings this like such

766
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: a sadness to it and a navy Yeah. I just

767
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 2: need to say I would never believe that Rogue would

768
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: ever get a mutant cure. Thanks very much. X three,

769
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 2: But you know, we don't really talk about.

770
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: X three, so we don't know. We don't again, Scott

771
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: Scott dies off screen? Yeah, I mean one of the

772
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 1: most important ext met of all time dies off screen

773
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: in that movie.

774
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so going to my teen superhero shows again, which

775
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 2: I do just think is like, really, some of the

776
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: best actors begin in those shows. Is like, there is

777
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: a really brilliant actor in that who plays Wildcat called

778
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 2: Yvette Montreal, and she just has this like her Wildcat's

779
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: arc in Star Girl is very emotional and she doesn't

780
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: really want to be a superhero and she doesn't have powers,

781
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 2: but she's given like a powered suit, which is how

782
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: most of them get x more of a JSA style storyline.

783
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: But she has that inherent's sadness but also that feisty

784
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: like righteousness but within the story, which is something I

785
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: found really interesting about Stargirl. They took her on this

786
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: arc that I felt was like very rogueish, where it

787
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: was about when something terrible happens to someone that you

788
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: care about, what's the line that you cross when it

789
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: comes to dealing with the person who did that. And

790
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 2: I think that kind of moral gray area is really

791
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: important for Rogue because of the Carol Danvers storyline and

792
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 2: that part of Danvers's backstory. So if it is really great,

793
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: and I thought she was just so good, I mean

794
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: I want to cast every kid from Stargirl in something

795
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: there's a kid who plays Brainwave Junior in the first season, Like,

796
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: please everyone go and watch that season. It's one of

797
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: the best seasons of TVs. And like nobody's seen it

798
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: because it was on DC Universe. But the kid who

799
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 2: plays Henry Junior is this unbelievable kid who looks like

800
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 2: Harry Osborne. And I mean you just look at him

801
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: and he just is Harry. He's white hair, almost has

802
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: like and he's ginger and like, this kid's dad is

803
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 2: such a piece of shit. Brainwave and his arc in

804
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: that show is still just one of the most heartbreaking

805
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: things of all time. And I think about him all

806
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 2: the time. And I know that MCU isn't gonna do

807
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: Harry Osborne, but I'm like, please cast that kid. Oh

808
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: j Costin Walker, He's so good. Yeah, And I'm the

809
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: Stargirl team's pr person. I'm like, every child in that

810
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 2: is amazing. Cast them in the MCU.

811
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: Quick aside, when they bring in Harry Osbourne waves, do

812
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:31,479
Speaker 1: they should they do the Waves in the movie?

813
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 2: I think I think that the way that MCU is now,

814
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: I would trust them to do a complex character who

815
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: had waves. I think they would do it. I think

816
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 2: that you could do it and in an interesting cool

817
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 2: way because like also if we look at the way

818
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: that they react to fans, now, that is the fans

819
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,959
Speaker 2: vision of Harry Osbourne, that's the fan art that gets drawn.

820
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: That's the way people see him, Like, I would like

821
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: to see it.

822
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna do one more. Gosh, this is tough.

823
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: How about let's pick a weird one. Oh no, actually,

824
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: let's go Kitty Pride again. One of one of the

825
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: most important, one of the most important, uh Jewish characters

826
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: in comics writ large. Uh, this is maybe slightly off

827
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: the beaten path here, but I'm gonna go uh maud

828
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: Apatow Okay, No, I could see the Apatow from the

829
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: the spawn of of Judd Apatow and the Apatow family.

830
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: I would also Irish maybe should also audition for it,

831
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: depending how how young we're gonna go. But I think, uh,

832
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: but I think mad Apatow, you know her from Euphoria

833
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 1: in a very very very small role.

834
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: But like a very impactful role. That's I think.

835
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: That's why I think she I think that's why I

836
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: think she can do it. I agree, that's why I think.

837
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: That's why I think she's got it because there's like,

838
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, there's like a Kitty is obviously like a

839
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: young kid from the suburbs, but with an edge a fighter. Yeah,

840
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 1: she is absolutely resourceful and has depths that I think

841
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: that you know, the the experience of like watching her

842
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: character of all on the screen should be that, oh my,

843
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: I didn't think that this character that can just walk

844
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: through walls like that's all there is to it, right,

845
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: I didn't think that she had this much ability, this

846
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: much fight, this much grit to who she is. And

847
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: I think Maud's character in Euphoria, her scenes in Euphoria

848
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: kind of convinced me that she could do.

849
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: I think you're right. And also something else I think

850
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 2: is really key about Kitty is it's unlikely that she's

851
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: going to be immediately like a main character in the movies. Yes,

852
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 2: very small exactly, Like you need to build to that

853
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: space where you could do a real version of Days

854
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: of Future Past. Would they do it? Who knows? But

855
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: like Ky has a lot of story arc also you

856
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: know now she has different a different mantle. She plays

857
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: a really main key role in the in the current

858
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: X line, So I think you could build there. But

859
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 2: I think having someone who can make the character memorable

860
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 2: even in the smallest scenes is key. So I think

861
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: that is that's chef's kiss casting.

862
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: And then Jacob Loordi is colossal, that's evil. Tell her

863
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: that we can't do that. Okay, so your last one?

864
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: Who okay? Uh oh man, I'm like, what should I Okay,

865
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: whoms could it be? I'm like, there's so many good

866
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: X men. I love da I.

867
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: Mean we could, we could legitimately go for it, like

868
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: I will go sit here and start I'll start casting

869
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: gold balls and I'm telling you I will, and Doug

870
00:49:58,400 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: Ramsey I'll just keep going.

871
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, okay, so I have So this isn't out

872
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: there one right by like it Like so the original

873
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 2: as we know this, like the original Dazzler was made

874
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: to basically be like a tying character for a disco

875
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: record and stuff. So I think Black makes a lot

876
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 2: of sense. I am the number one stan of Ella Balinska,

877
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: who is this brilliant actress who is in Charlie's Angels,

878
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 2: the much maligned reboot. It's good, Actually, don't hate camp.

879
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: Stuff is fun. She's a brilliant action artist and she's

880
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: just really cool, really beautiful and She's also in the

881
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 2: new Resident Evil Show, which is currently which is which

882
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: is by the way, it's absolutely bonkers, just like you

883
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it, You absolutely couldn't believe it.

884
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: I watched the first episode. It is bananas. Yeah, she's great.

885
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's so good, and like i'd like, she does

886
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: a lot of action and and and genre stuff, which

887
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: is like, she's so good in Charlie's Angels the whole time,

888
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: and she's English. The whole time I was watching, I

889
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 2: was just thinking, shit, she should be Lara Croft, like

890
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: she's just got it. But I'd love to see I

891
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 2: get to have a bit more fun and like a

892
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: Dazzler star role, but that's still a really athletic, action

893
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: packed role because of the way her powers work. It

894
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: would be really nice to see. We've seen like a

895
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: glimpse of a version of a Dazzler where they're just

896
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 2: like having a rave in a park in a movie,

897
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,760
Speaker 2: but like, I would like to see a proper Dazzler

898
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: and I think Ella could really Actually there's a scene

899
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: in Charlie's Angels, which if you haven't seen it, Bless yourself,

900
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: where Ella Blinsker and Kristen Stewart do a disco dance

901
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: routine to Bad Girls, and it is like one of

902
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 2: my favorite scenes from any movie. And it's like a

903
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: in time dance routine that they do as part of

904
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: a Charlie's Angel starploy. So go and watch that and

905
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 2: enjoy the campiness of that. Good. It's a good movie, man,

906
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 2: I swear to god, this has.

907
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: Been really fun. If hopefully people don't hate our fancas.

908
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: And if you have different eye please send me. We'd

909
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: love to hear your fancasts. Do you have any This

910
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: is we're belaboring this, but that's because we love the mutants.

911
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: What would your what would you are the mutants like

912
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: elevator pitch plot be for the movie?

913
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: Okay, my, the mutant's elevator plot would be Jubilee. She's

914
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 2: left home because of her powers. She meets a gang

915
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: of kids who hang out at the mall and they

916
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 2: all sort of realize that they have these weird powers,

917
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 2: maybe because they got in trouble because of an accident

918
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 2: at the mall or something. Probably there's an arcade or

919
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: some kind of cool RoboCop two style hideout, and it

920
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 2: would be about them learning to have their powers to

921
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 2: work with their powers as this rise of anti powered people,

922
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 2: anti mutant oppression was kind of coming, and then you'd

923
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: have your final stinger would be like a let a

924
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: Harry Potter style letter asking you to be part of

925
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 2: the school, or Charles Xaviers stinger or something. But I'd

926
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 2: focus on the kids and this notion of this ragtag

927
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: underground found family. What would yours be?

928
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: I do something actually quite similar. I think I do

929
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: like mutant massacre without the massacre, so it would be

930
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: like morlocks.

931
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 2: You know, it's really likely because also they already live

932
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 2: hidden from everyone else.

933
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: That's right, So they're on the run, they're they're living

934
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: like that, living hidden And maybe the way it all

935
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 1: kind of comes to the four is Charles, just for

936
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: the good of mutants as a species, has been doing

937
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: this mindwipe thing and suppressing people's ability to understand that

938
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: they're mutants, et cetera. But like he there's a discrepancy.

939
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe there's a kid who has a power that

940
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,240
Speaker 2: contradicts it or something.

941
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: And they have a memory that they shouldn't have, and

942
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: this unravels the whole mystery that leads us down to

943
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: the tunnels, damage control or the Sentinel program. Or somebody

944
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 1: goes down there to basically root out what they think

945
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: are this community of outlaw powered people. But it is

946
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: really just like you know, kids and outcasts living on

947
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: the margins of society, and that blows the lid off

948
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: of this entire secret society that's been living underground.

949
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 2: Oh I love that. That sounds great. Marvel come to us. Well,

950
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 2: we'll help you just announcing the events because people want

951
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: X men stuff. I don't. I don't believe as a pitch,

952
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 2: We're ready up.

953
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: Next the Summer of nineteen eighty two and blade Runner.

954
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: We're stepping out of airlocks. You people have never.

955
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 6: Seen it into the rates of shadow filled world of replicants,

956
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 6: Nexus three, four, five, and six and the rainy streets

957
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 6: of twenty first almost twenty first century Los Angeles to

958
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 6: talk about the summer of nineteen eighty two and the

959
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 6: sci fi masterpiece blad Runner, as chosen by you, the

960
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 6: listeners of X Ray Vision, for this to be our

961
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 6: airlock topic, and what a fun one.

962
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: First, let's break down the poll results, shall we. So

963
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: we had a thousands of votes cast, Thank you so much.

964
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: A blade Runner obviously came in at the top. They

965
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: beat beat out, Swamp Thing, Poltergeist, and Creep Show in

966
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: its bracket. Swamp Thing Listen had no chance, But that's

967
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 1: a movie I've seen five.

968
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: Hundred I love that movie. That was like a very

969
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 2: horror heavy bracket, but I feel like Blade came out.

970
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 2: It was like it was winning for the cult classics

971
00:55:58,040 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: and then the classics.

972
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: Poltergeist another one I've seen five billion, million, trillion times,

973
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 1: and Creep Show Stephen King's debut on screen performance.

974
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 2: And now it's comics. You know, creep shows all around comics,

975
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 2: Pulpy So Pulpy.

976
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 1: Amy, Your Heckerling classic, Fast Times one in its bracket

977
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: versus Tron The Thing, and Conan the Barbarian again, other

978
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: movies that I also love. Fast Times it would have

979
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: been I have seen Fast Times a lot of times,

980
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: and I think that it's depiction of high school culture

981
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: remains in many ways relevant. And I think Spaccoli is

982
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: probably one of the most influential characters. I mean, like,

983
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: we just got done talking kind of about Stranger Things,

984
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, Spaccoli is all over Season

985
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: four Stranger Things. But I also man Tron Great, the Thing,

986
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: Stone cold fucking classic, and then Conan the Barbarian another

987
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: movie that I've seen. Yeah, I mean movie that scared me.

988
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 2: In case you haven't notice, a lot of really unbelievable

989
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 2: movies came out in the summer of nine, four years ago.

990
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 2: Hence why we did this bracket and every single one.

991
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, we could just do a whole summer of

992
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 2: eighty two podcast. Why you do a different movie each week?

993
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 2: Because it is just unreal?

994
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: Star Trek two, beat Out the Dark, Crystal, Oh my god,

995
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: I love about First Blood Actually a good movie. Yes,

996
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: Sulk Rocky three, Yeah, First Blood. People forget because it

997
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: became this like ridiculous, like right wing like fantasy series

998
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: where like fucking John Rambo goes to Afghanistan and helps

999
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: the Muja a Dean like defeat the Russians and all

1000
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: this fucking crazy shit. But like the first First Blood,

1001
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: the First Rambo movie was about like America's shame and

1002
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: guilt at losing the Vietnam War and its failure to

1003
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: be responsible for the for the veterans who were impacted

1004
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: by that war. It's actually a fucking great way.

1005
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 2: Unbelievable, deep and complex and just kind of blows your

1006
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: mind to I knew you will if you haven't watched

1007
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: it for a long time, go back and rewatch it,

1008
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: because you will just be like, oh, this is not

1009
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: it's actually the series became.

1010
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: Not at all dark, Crystal. I just love I need

1011
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: more Puppets. Star Trek two Rathlkan, Ricardo montalban I didn't

1012
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: get that he was reprising his role as Cohn from

1013
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: the TV like. I didn't understand that at all. I

1014
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: saw this movie that came in later when I started

1015
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: watching the TV show they they used to play reruns

1016
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: of Star Trek after Get Smart in the summertime on

1017
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: like the local TV Chane. They still do that.

1018
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 2: As someone who watches broadcast TV, you can still watch

1019
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 2: those two shows in I promise.

1020
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: You, Oh my god. So it's like Get Smart from

1021
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: nine to ten and then from like eleven to one,

1022
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: it's like back to back Star Treks. So I watched

1023
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: every Star Trek that way by just doing that. And

1024
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: then Et, which again the first time I saw my

1025
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: mom cry was watching Et. It was very it was

1026
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: it was I didn't know what was happening. I was scared,

1027
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: and Et beat out Secret of Nim Love, The Secret

1028
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: of nim Iconic Mad Max two Road Warrior also iconic, and.

1029
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: Grease to Grease Too Cult Classic, La Cult classic, especially

1030
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 2: people in LA love Grease too rightfully. So it's actually

1031
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 2: a great movie and the songs of bangers, but I

1032
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 2: love that it has this very specific following in LA.

1033
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: It's a fucking great It's so good.

1034
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 2: Uh what happened to Max? Well?

1035
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: Call Field? It's like, well call Field. I'm like, this

1036
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: guy's a fucking steasy d. Anyway, let's get into Blade

1037
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Runner nineteen eighty two, directed by Ridley Scott's screenplay by

1038
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: Hampton Fancher and David People's impeccable, iconic, fucking score by

1039
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: the Greek musician Vangelis. Yeah, who absolutely like shit still

1040
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: sounds futuristic, so good.

1041
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 2: It's so good. It's like one of the best original

1042
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: soundtracks of all time. I mean it's also it's so

1043
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: impactful to me that the biggest compliment I can give

1044
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 2: a film score is that it sounds like Vangelis, So

1045
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: like Aquaman actually has a very Vangelis sounding soundtrack, and

1046
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 2: I just listened to it so much because I was like, absolutely,

1047
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 2: no one listens to this, Like no one realizes that

1048
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 2: this exists, and it is just so good. Yeah, Evangelis is.

1049
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: The best, and it's of course based on the Philip K.

1050
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: Dick's story Do Android's Dream of Electric Sheep. The movie

1051
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: stars Harrison Ford as Rick Deckard, who may or may

1052
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 1: not be human. The American film debut of Rutger Howard.

1053
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: German star Rutger Howard as the ominous Roy Baddie, Sean

1054
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: Young in her I Think feature film debut as Rachel,

1055
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: Edward James almost as Gaff, mm At Walsh as Bryant,

1056
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: Daryl Hannah as Chris, William Sanderson as JF Sebastian, Brian

1057
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: James as Leon Kowalski, Joe Turkel as Eldon Zerrell, and

1058
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:30,919
Speaker 1: Joanna Cassidy as Zora. When did you first come into

1059
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: contact with Blade Runner?

1060
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 2: Well? Blade Runner is one of my mom's favorite films.

1061
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 2: So this movie has been perennially in my life, my

1062
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: whole life. It was something we always had on VHS.

1063
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: I have seen many different I've now seen every different

1064
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: one of the seven Cops. I have seen Blade Runner

1065
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 2: many times in the cinema both the directors caught and

1066
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 2: then when it was finally released, I saw one of

1067
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 2: the best experiences of my life. Regarding Vangelis as well.

1068
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 2: Was saw The Final Car at the BFI, the British

1069
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 2: Film Institute on the South Bank in London, and the

1070
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 2: soundtrack was just like unreal. They had those big good speakers.

1071
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, for me, this is just this is

1072
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 2: up there like with movies like E. T and those Goonies.

1073
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 2: You know, like obviously it's different artistic style. But to me,

1074
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 2: this is one of those perennial cinema classics that's kind

1075
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 2: of always been in my life because it came out

1076
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 2: like six years before I was born.

1077
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't even remember when the first time I

1078
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: saw it was, but I will guarantee you that I

1079
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:42,439
Speaker 1: didn't understand it when I the first you know, fifty times,

1080
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: because I just didn't. I didn't understand what was happening.

1081
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until later I was mostly responding to wow,

1082
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: this is so cool. Yeah, the vibes.

1083
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 2: It's a very vibesy movie.

1084
01:02:54,680 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: I mean that that first opening shot of future Los

1085
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: Angeles with the big Noodle advertisement on the building and

1086
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 1: all the spinnerships coming through in the big blimp telling you, hey,

1087
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: explore the off war world colonies, It was like it

1088
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:23,919
Speaker 1: legitimately looked like the most futuristic thing I had ever seen,

1089
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: and I was just completely blown away at how like

1090
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: lived in and real it looked like. I mean, Star

1091
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: Wars was lived in as well, but there was Star Wars.

1092
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 2: Is like it's it's lovely, but it's very of its time,

1093
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 2: and it was not. It did not have a big budget,

1094
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 2: and it was definitely it has like janky moments, you know,

1095
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 2: like it was lived in and it looks great, like

1096
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: I love that esteag But Blade Runner is like the

1097
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 2: use of miniatures. The cinematography, Oh my god, it feels

1098
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 2: like a real world and even in like the early nineties,

1099
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: which was realistically probably when I watched it, it felt

1100
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: so immassive and so unlike anything else. The I scene,

1101
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: there's it.

1102
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: Let's talk quickly about the cuts. So there are currently

1103
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 1: seven different cuts of the film. There was the first,

1104
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: the original cut that came out in nineteen eighty two,

1105
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: which I think it's fair to say it was a

1106
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: disappointment in the box office. It was a flop. They

1107
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: were expecting more from it. Then came the VHS cut. Now, interestingly,

1108
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 1: the VHS cut was kind of like a back door

1109
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: extra cut because it differed significantly from the theatrical cut,

1110
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: notably in some of the fight scenes. There's actually a

1111
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: warning on the VHS box it says, warning, this film

1112
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: contains never before released scenes of graphic violence on theatrical release.

1113
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: And then this film, this is the cut that later

1114
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 1: became the laser disc version from Criterion as well.

1115
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 2: Lucky Criterion used to make laser discs. I think about

1116
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 2: that next once a week.

1117
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: So then came the US broadcast cut in nineteen eighty six.

1118
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 2: So there's an international cut, the broadcast cut. I don't

1119
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 2: know if that really counts as like an edited CBS cut,

1120
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 2: but like there's a wiki for the versions, the Wikipedia

1121
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 2: page that just has all seven, because I think the

1122
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 2: next one was the It was basically like the.

1123
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: Work became the work print in nineteen eighty nine.

1124
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 2: Is the and then that became the director's cut.

1125
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: Right, so then eighty nine ninety the work the so

1126
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: called work print emerges. Now this was discovered by a

1127
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 1: film preservationist and made its debut. I want to say

1128
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 1: it like a seventy milimeter.

1129
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: It was very much like a rep screening cult thing

1130
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 2: where somebody got a real and it was like a

1131
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 2: myth of this like beta version of the movie.

1132
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: And it's and it's thought that this was a test

1133
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: audience screening. Oh that made so much, said pre voice

1134
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 1: pre voiceover. Warner Brothers wanted to see how the movie

1135
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: was going to test to figure out like how much

1136
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: promo and budgeting, budgeting they wanted to put behind it.

1137
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: And you know, a process they still do today, although

1138
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: in a much more like computerized fashion.

1139
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 6: Uh.

1140
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: And so this is what they were showing to test audiences,

1141
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: and somehow a real stayed out there that somebody got

1142
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: a hold.

1143
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 2: That's what REP Cinemas used to be, just bought up

1144
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 2: the all reels and yeah, I mean I love that.

1145
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 2: How exciting that must have been.

1146
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: So this cut is very similar to the theatrical cut, except

1147
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: there's no voiceover, which had probably not been added. Yeah yeah, yeah.

1148
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 2: And then and then that inspired this kind of fan

1149
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 2: call for a director's cut or a recut version that

1150
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 2: was closer to what they imagined Ridley's vision would be.

1151
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,959
Speaker 1: The movie ends in the elevator, so you don't get

1152
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: that that you know, them driving through the country and

1153
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: they've gone off together, happy ending. Right. This print was

1154
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: screened at the nineteen ninety at the Fairfax seventy Millimeter

1155
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 1: Film Festival in LA which led to it got a

1156
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: great response, so Warner Brothers was like, Okay, let's release

1157
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 1: it in a limited style at two theaters, one in

1158
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, one in San Francisco, and those just sold out.

1159
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: Here is a quote from the October thirteenth edition of

1160
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: the La Times. Quote, Scott's director cut has been playing

1161
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: to unprecedented audiences at the New Art Theater in West LA.

1162
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: The film's economic end set a house record, so people

1163
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: were just absolutely going crazy for this quote unquote new

1164
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: cut of Blade Runner, which was really almost like the.

1165
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 2: Every old times, the original original time. And the funniest

1166
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 2: thing about it as well, is like you're four years

1167
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 2: in at this point from when Blade Runner was Oh no,

1168
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 2: my god, no, no, you're ten years in. This is

1169
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 2: ten years. I know, Matts, this is ten years. And

1170
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 2: so like the I think you cannot discount the legacy

1171
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 2: and legend that had built up at this point about

1172
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 2: the cuts, and the was that the voiceover didn't used

1173
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 2: to be there, and then it was there, and then

1174
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 2: it there's a version where it's not there. So that

1175
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: all makes a lot of sense to me, and you

1176
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 2: get this director's cut that is not, as Ridley told,

1177
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 2: is not really a director's cut. It's kind of a

1178
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 2: rush job that builds on the workprint but doesn't like

1179
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 2: do the thing that he wants. So, you know, ten

1180
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 2: years down the line, and he's still like this is incorrect,

1181
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:48,919
Speaker 2: this is not correct.

1182
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,520
Speaker 1: In doing research for this, I've I've been amused at

1183
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: any and all of the video interviews with Ridley where

1184
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: he's talk about the various cuts, because he seems, at

1185
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: best it's like slightly bemused by the whole thing.

1186
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 2: He's definitely in between bemused and like not bothered, where

1187
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 2: he's just like.

1188
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: I think that he you know, and this is obviously

1189
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: me reading into it, but it feels like he's put

1190
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: all this stuff away a long time ago and is like,

1191
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 1: you guys still care, okay, friend, Yeah, well let's do this.

1192
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: Like there's there's like a there's a video like a

1193
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: interview of him promoting the final cut, which is from

1194
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, I mean yeah.

1195
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 2: And then again looks FA's you know, fifteen years later,

1196
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 2: and it's.

1197
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:48,599
Speaker 1: Literally it's literally it looks like there's a gun off camera,

1198
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 1: making it like he looks He's just like, this is

1199
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: my favorite cut of the movie. We clean some stuff

1200
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: up and fix some of the continuity editor errors and

1201
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: made it look really great with a special effects and stuff,

1202
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: and this is my favorite code.

1203
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:06,799
Speaker 2: I do believe that Ridley Scott probably loves working on films,

1204
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 2: but like imagine and and specifically like the final cut,

1205
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 2: which is the version that we watched for this because

1206
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 2: it's the version that's most widely available, and also generally

1207
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 2: now is the version, Like, that's the version. There are

1208
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,799
Speaker 2: DVD box sets you can get that have different versions,

1209
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 2: rent them, but generally the final cut, which is very

1210
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:26,720
Speaker 2: strange because it used to be that you could not

1211
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 2: see the final cart and it was a myth and

1212
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 2: then you know, it was very limited release and you

1213
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 2: have to buy a crazy expensive box set or whatever.

1214
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 2: But now you can watch it. You can stream it

1215
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 2: on Netflix on HBO Max, and that's the version we watch.

1216
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 2: But like, imagine that you made something and then like

1217
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 2: decades later, people are still making you go back to

1218
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 2: that one thing. You would be stressed. You would be

1219
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 2: absolutely stressed.

1220
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 1: I will say. In some of the clips, it's some

1221
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:58,719
Speaker 1: of like the documentary footage of the different editors talking

1222
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 1: about the things they wanted to do, and then running

1223
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: it by the clips of him them running it by Ridley,

1224
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 1: I think with certain with you know, stuff like replacing

1225
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: Zora's face in her death scene where she's crashing through

1226
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: the glass so that it's not obviously a stunt performer,

1227
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: I think, you know, and and cleaning up and brightening

1228
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 1: and shining up some of the really cool special effects.

1229
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 1: I think that stuff was fine, But there's a lot

1230
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 1: of like, there's a lot of discussion of how many

1231
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 1: continuity errors in well and and and that's when you

1232
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 1: can sense that Ridley's like, all right, I've made a

1233
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: fucked up movie. Get off my.

1234
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 2: Continuity. Like some movies have plot holes, but some movies

1235
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 2: are just like enigmatic and you're not supposed to know.

1236
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 2: And I think I actually think that speaks to the

1237
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 2: reason one of the reasons that we kind of that

1238
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 2: any of this happened at all, And something that the

1239
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 2: director's cut kind of makes text in a way that

1240
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 2: wasn't before, which is that big questionin of like is

1241
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 2: decard a human like you mentioned in the thing? I

1242
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 2: think that that's the major change that comes in this cut,

1243
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 2: and we'll kind of get into it more when we

1244
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 2: have our bigger convert about the movie. But it's very

1245
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 2: interesting to kind of see that idea of plot holes

1246
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 2: and continuity become something where, yeah, so let's have to

1247
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:25,560
Speaker 2: recut a film to fix them.

1248
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 1: So let's run that down. Okay, so we're at the

1249
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: So the working cut comes out. Ridley in one of

1250
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,839
Speaker 1: these documentaries about all the cuts, has this really quote

1251
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 1: that I think sums up the kind of thing that

1252
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: Rosie and I have been talking about regarding his perspective

1253
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: on all these cuts. He says, this is about the

1254
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 1: working the work print that emerged. I think it was

1255
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,640
Speaker 1: just a great fuss about nothing. It was really just

1256
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: an accidental removal of the voiceover. And then the movie ends,

1257
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: and then it ended in the elevator. Really about it.

1258
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 2: I kind of love Okay, I love that though, Like,

1259
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 2: you're you made a cool film that was just based

1260
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 2: on a story that you probably liked, you liked, and

1261
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 2: you're like, and then you cut it and everyone's reading

1262
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 2: really deeply into it, like it's this philosophical puzzle box,

1263
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 2: and you're just like, I just cut one scene. No,

1264
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 2: it's not that deep.

1265
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: And then so this but the work print obviously, and

1266
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 1: the reception to it was super super important in terms of, uh,

1267
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like setting in stone the legend

1268
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,679
Speaker 1: of blade Runner that we live with today. It led

1269
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: directly to the nineteen ninety two directors cut as you

1270
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: were saying, Rosie, which is no voiceover, no happy ending.

1271
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: It ends in the elevator. And then we get the

1272
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 1: unicorn scene, which suggests that Deckard is a replicant because

1273
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,759
Speaker 1: he has been dreaming about these unicorns. And then Gaff,

1274
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: who has been making little origami figures all movie, makes

1275
01:13:55,040 --> 01:14:00,160
Speaker 1: a little unicorn, which is if you want to believe

1276
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 1: that Decord is a replicant, is Gaff saying, I know

1277
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: what your memories are in the same.

1278
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 2: Way, in the same.

1279
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: In the same way that you were, like, hey, Rachel,

1280
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: remember when you looked at that spider egg outside your

1281
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: window when you're a kid? You ever tell anybody that

1282
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,600
Speaker 1: like in this In that exact same way, here is

1283
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 1: Gaff saying, can you ever tell anybody you dreamt about unicorns?

1284
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:26,679
Speaker 1: I know you do, because you're a replicant. So that's

1285
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: the suggestion. And then in two thousand and seven we

1286
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 1: get the final cut, which is all those major changes right,

1287
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 1: the no voiceover ends in the elevator in the Unicorn,

1288
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:40,839
Speaker 1: plus the extra violence from the VHS cut.

1289
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 2: From the International because obviously in the Intern people love

1290
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 2: a good violence.

1291
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 1: They love a good violent which it's like Chris, you know,

1292
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 1: putting her fingers in Decard's nose and lifting his face,

1293
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: and then Roy, uh, you know, crushing Tyrrell's skull in

1294
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 1: a much more extended for Matt. Plus fixes for the

1295
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: various continuity errors which are actually, like really fascinating, including

1296
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: as mentioned, putting Joanna's two thousand and seven scanned face

1297
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:20,480
Speaker 1: over the print so that it's not the stunt performer's

1298
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: face and her death scene, taking ben Ford, Harrison Ford's son,

1299
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 1: taking ben Ford's lips, having him read the dialogue in

1300
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 1: the Egyptian Animal Dealer scene because I guess in the

1301
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 1: original which I never noticed any of this shit, but

1302
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: in the original prints the sound was not SYNCD, so

1303
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: they got ben Ford to say the dialogue and then

1304
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 1: they digitally put his lips over his dad's lips in

1305
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 1: sync with the dialogue. And there's a bunch of other

1306
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 1: stuff like that, like you know, Roy's death scene. When

1307
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: the Dove is released, it's raining but then in the

1308
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 1: original when you watch the dove fly up, it's sunny,

1309
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: so they put the rain in.

1310
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:06,639
Speaker 2: And there's lots of brilliant people online who have broken

1311
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 2: down all of these for you in like a very yeah,

1312
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 2: or you can just watch all the cuts. I think

1313
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 2: that five of them are kind of widely available, but

1314
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 2: they are very fun.

1315
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: So with that, let's get into our thoughts about this movie.

1316
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:26,639
Speaker 1: I will say, man, fucking holds up. Yeah, absolutely holds up.

1317
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:30,680
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts? You're in it? Just immediate emotional

1318
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: and intellectual reaction to watching Blade Runner the final cut

1319
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two.

1320
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 2: I just yeah, it's so. It's one of those interesting

1321
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 2: things where it's like, it's so influential that when you

1322
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 2: watch it could almost feel derivative, but it's not, because

1323
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:51,640
Speaker 2: it's the thing that everyone else is taking from, you know.

1324
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 2: So I think that's always really interesting to watch a

1325
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 2: movie in that context where you sort of go, who,

1326
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:00,640
Speaker 2: this has just influenced so much stuff to the point of,

1327
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 2: you know, some of it's to the point of parody.

1328
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:07,839
Speaker 2: It gets parodied so much that that neon hued bleak,

1329
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 2: neo noir esthetic, you know, so many other sci fi

1330
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 2: movies have aped it, but it's just I think it's

1331
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 2: a really sad, sweet story about just trying to be

1332
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 2: a human and I think that and trying to be

1333
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 2: like a trying to do the right thing and all

1334
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 2: those kind of things that humans really care about. And

1335
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: I feel like it's it's very universal and it's like

1336
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 2: it's very cool. But also like I understand why it

1337
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 2: was like a film that my mom loved, because I

1338
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:37,639
Speaker 2: feel like anyone could just watch this and find something

1339
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 2: in it to connect with.

1340
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:46,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved the which and this is like I

1341
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:49,800
Speaker 1: didn't pick up on this in the hundreds of other

1342
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 1: times that I've watched this, But I love the way

1343
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 1: the robots hunger for there's no robot culture. There's no

1344
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,639
Speaker 1: excuse me, there's no replicant culture because they die after yea, yeah,

1345
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 1: they live these extremely hard lives.

1346
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 2: That life is their life expand is made to deny

1347
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 2: them of culture or legacy or ancestry or anything that

1348
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 2: can be built because they're only a life for so

1349
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 2: long and they live these lives. Is like basically indentured servants.

1350
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 1: So our outlaws are essentially trying to create something like

1351
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: a replicant culture basically out of nowhere, and the best

1352
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:35,680
Speaker 1: that they can come up with is human culture. Like

1353
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 1: there's this there's this really great moment where Roy and

1354
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: Priss are at JF Sebastians and JF Sbastian is like

1355
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 1: one of the genetic engineers who is responsible for the

1356
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: products that the Tyrell Corporation makes, and PRIs at one

1357
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 1: point said, like, you know, he's he's JF is just

1358
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 1: realizing that these are Nexus six is the most advanced replicants,

1359
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 1: and Chris says, I think, therefore I am, And then

1360
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:08,719
Speaker 1: she looks at Roy like, you know, really pleased with herself,

1361
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 1: and then Roy looks at her like he's proud of

1362
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 1: what she's like, very good, Chris, That's great. It's like,

1363
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: so why do they follow Roy? Because Roy knows human stuff.

1364
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: Roy is the one who understands the meaning behind all

1365
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 1: these human sayings and human art and human music and

1366
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 1: culture and an appreciation of the little things of what

1367
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: it means to be alive in the same way that

1368
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 1: humans appreciate those things. And he's teaching them, He's giving

1369
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: that to them because he's the smartest of all of them.

1370
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: And I just found that like incredibly touching, Like imagine

1371
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:50,680
Speaker 1: you had no culture at all. You come from a

1372
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: people that have no idea where you come from, and

1373
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 1: the only way that you can kind of like build

1374
01:19:56,720 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: out your own view of the world is through the

1375
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: pieces that you take from these other people who created

1376
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 1: and enslaved you.

1377
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1378
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: It's really fucking sick.

1379
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of really really interesting, dark, complex stuff.

1380
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 2: And I think that like you talked about, you know, Roy,

1381
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 2: and I think you just can't underestimate how good Rutkahire

1382
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 2: is in this movie. Like he's he's so emotionally charged

1383
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 2: and powerful and sad and righteously angry, and I think

1384
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 2: something that really even the happy ending, let's put it

1385
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 2: in an inverted quotes version of the movie, like this

1386
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 2: is a very bleak movie. And I think that's part

1387
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 2: of the reason that it stood the test of time,

1388
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 2: because it's not really a lot of movies like that

1389
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:46,720
Speaker 2: that kind of embraced this like inherent sadness of the

1390
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 2: world and inherent kind of grind. Yeah, because like that

1391
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,400
Speaker 2: is the replicants life is a microcosm of you know,

1392
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:57,559
Speaker 2: most of our lives, like most people's lives, is this

1393
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 2: dedicated to only being able to work and just trying

1394
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 2: to survive in this very brief amount of time that

1395
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 2: we have, and I just I, yeah, I just think

1396
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 2: it's it's also like a really cool movie. I do think.

1397
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 2: I think that one of the biggest things that stands

1398
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 2: out to me in twenty twenty two contextually and with

1399
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 2: much more understanding that I have and brilliant work done

1400
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 2: by many other people. It's just like it definitely plays

1401
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 2: into the the fear that America had of kind of

1402
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,720
Speaker 2: like Japan as this oh, broaching force. And I think

1403
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 2: it's hard that was It's hard to disconnect from that

1404
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 2: notion of it. Like that is what the explanation of

1405
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 2: the the way that Neo La looks, you know, is

1406
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 2: very much based in that. But I do also think

1407
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 2: it has a lot to offer and is really interesting

1408
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,800
Speaker 2: even in spite of the flaws.

1409
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, because I feel very

1410
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:59,519
Speaker 1: much the same way, very complicated about the depiction of

1411
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 1: the flames of Japanese culture, Asian culture, East Asian culture

1412
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: on Neo La. First of all, I feel compelled to

1413
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: note that the movie came out June twenty fifth, nineteen

1414
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,599
Speaker 1: eighty two, and only six days before this Asian American

1415
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:20,680
Speaker 1: Vincent Chin was murdered in Detroit with a baseball bat,

1416
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:26,639
Speaker 1: and his two killers were auto workers who were you know,

1417
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: one of the reasons they cited for why they flew

1418
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 1: off the handle and killed this guy with a baseball

1419
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:38,639
Speaker 1: bat was that they were angry over Japanese cars being

1420
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:43,639
Speaker 1: imported into the US, undercutting American the American auto industry

1421
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: and leading to one of these killers losing their job.

1422
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:49,799
Speaker 1: By the way, the men were fined three thousand dollars

1423
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:53,639
Speaker 1: and did no jail time, although later in a civil

1424
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 1: court case there was a larger monetary settlement. So this

1425
01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 1: was this fear of a rising Japan is all over

1426
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 1: every movie from the eighties. There's a there's a you know,

1427
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,679
Speaker 1: you could I could go through the litany of movies

1428
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 1: that that have this as an influence, but you really

1429
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 1: see it throughout the eighties, ending with I think Rising

1430
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: Sun is the last one, like early nineties where I

1431
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 1: really felt like, oh, here's another last one of these movies.

1432
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 1: But I will say here, the other thing about it

1433
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 1: is and there is a lot of appropriation here, but

1434
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: also this is like one of the very few over

1435
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 1: depictions of East Asia, particularly Japan, as a cultural power,

1436
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,600
Speaker 1: like as like, it's not just that deckerd is like

1437
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:48,160
Speaker 1: eating noodles. He's eating noodles at a stand that is

1438
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:54,759
Speaker 1: worked by, uh, you know, Asian people. There's Asian writing there,

1439
01:23:55,320 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: everyone around him is Asian. It's it's it feels in

1440
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: that way because of that. It feels it's part of

1441
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 1: what gives the movie its state power because it's an

1442
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: acknowledgment of Japanese culture as a worldwide force, something that

1443
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: was not really acknowledged certainly in the early eighties, Like

1444
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 1: there was no perception of Japan as a cultural force internationally,

1445
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:29,559
Speaker 1: and here in this movie, you're showing that, maybe for

1446
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 1: the wrong reasons. Well I was going to say because

1447
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 1: of fear about Japan. But that's part of what makes

1448
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: it feel like a vital and current piece of art.

1449
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 2: It's actually really interesting because it kind of speaks to

1450
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 2: something that I think comics to a lot as well,

1451
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:47,479
Speaker 2: which is like intent versus impact, and that can be

1452
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 2: that can be negative and positive, like you can try

1453
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 2: and do something good, but the impact can be negative

1454
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 2: or as many of these like Blade Runout, I think

1455
01:24:56,640 --> 01:25:00,799
Speaker 2: a lot about you know, the original character a valkyrie

1456
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 2: and Marvel Comics who was presented to be this like

1457
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 2: feminist nightmare character, who is this kind of like this

1458
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 2: is what would happen if women were were actually powerful.

1459
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 2: It would be terrible. They would be villains. But instead

1460
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:21,719
Speaker 2: you created this totally badass character that ended up taking

1461
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 2: on an importance of its own and I kind of

1462
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 2: think Blade Runner fits into that in its own way.

1463
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:30,480
Speaker 2: Though there's been lots of brilliant and very very legitimate

1464
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 2: critiques of that aspect. I also think that in its

1465
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 2: own way, it put a spotlight on certain parts of

1466
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:43,680
Speaker 2: Asian culture or the idea of a cultural power that

1467
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 2: had been ignored. And also it has some really iconic

1468
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 2: Asian actress actors in it. You know, James Hong is

1469
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:52,320
Speaker 2: in it, one of my all time favorites. You know,

1470
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 2: there's a lot of really brilliant actors in this movie.

1471
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:57,880
Speaker 2: And I just I think that's a really interesting point

1472
01:25:57,920 --> 01:25:59,640
Speaker 2: that you bring up about that, where it's kind of

1473
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 2: that like it was meant to be this kind of

1474
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:04,840
Speaker 2: fear mongering thing, but it has this other element too

1475
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 2: that we put the power on by reading it in

1476
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 2: a certain way.

1477
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 1: That's exactly Thank you for stating in a much more

1478
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: succinct way the thing that I was trying to say,

1479
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: and then finally the other this is part of that conversation.

1480
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 1: But the other reason that I feel I have complex

1481
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: feelings sometimes about this movie is I love the look

1482
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 1: of Neo La. You know, how drowned in rain it is,

1483
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 1: how messy it is, how everything is kind of like

1484
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: built on top of each other. But it is it's

1485
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 1: notable to me that, you know, we often talk about

1486
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:48,920
Speaker 1: a Blade Runner's dystopian a worse future, like what makes

1487
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 1: it worse? Well, part of what clearly the intent was

1488
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 1: how do we show that this is worse? We show

1489
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 1: it messy, we show it dirty, et cetera. But also

1490
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:01,639
Speaker 1: it's like, look at all these non Americans, yeah, yeah.

1491
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all these immigrants.

1492
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 1: Like look a yeah, they're not even speaking English, and

1493
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 1: this is terrible, isn't it. Now Again, what's happened is

1494
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:13,400
Speaker 1: in the intervening years, this is this is actually how

1495
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: we live. This is part of life, and it's not.

1496
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:18,800
Speaker 1: It's not. There are certainly people that take it in

1497
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: a very negative way, but this is just modern. The

1498
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 1: irony is an introconnected world.

1499
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:26,920
Speaker 2: America is a you know they the immigration has long

1500
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 2: been a part of the contemporary idea of America, right,

1501
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:34,639
Speaker 2: And also, yeah, it's just very ironic because the real

1502
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 2: dystopian aspects of Blade Runner that are legit, like the

1503
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 2: pollution and the horrific climate crisis that is very very real,

1504
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 2: rather than any notion about that aspect. But yeah, yeah,

1505
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 2: like you said, I mean there's so much stuff Like

1506
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 2: I think this is why we love this stuff is

1507
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 2: like we love it and we want to talk about

1508
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 2: how great it is and also pick it apart. And

1509
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:56,920
Speaker 2: the reason we pick it apart is because we really

1510
01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 2: enjoy it, Like this is such a brillilliantly made movie.

1511
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:05,880
Speaker 2: But obviously, like the women in the movie have a

1512
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:09,479
Speaker 2: very specific way of being represented. Now, I personally think

1513
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:12,599
Speaker 2: there's actually a lot of power in like Rachel's story,

1514
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 2: and I love Priss is like such a brilliant character,

1515
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,639
Speaker 2: but they both also fall into tropes this But then again,

1516
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 2: you know, we talk about this long. This is a

1517
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:24,600
Speaker 2: film that's meant to fall into tropes like Blade Run Up.

1518
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 2: We talk about how it's original, and it is original

1519
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 2: in a science fiction Hollywood space, but it's also a noir.

1520
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:38,760
Speaker 2: Philip Marlow P. I story just thrown into this. You

1521
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 2: have to have this inversion. Rachel is, you know, the

1522
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 2: Femfa tau, but she's not. PRIs is actually kind of

1523
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:46,600
Speaker 2: the Femfa tau. Like it's really there's a lot of

1524
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 2: care ways that it plays and subverts those tropes. And

1525
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:52,599
Speaker 2: I think that's another reason. I mean, when you think

1526
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 2: about neo noir, this is the movie you think of,

1527
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 2: not like a twenty twenty two noir that's set in

1528
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 2: the contemporary day. You think of a nineteen eighty two

1529
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 2: movie that was set in a future that we've now passed.

1530
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:11,120
Speaker 1: That's mad, you know, as a as a just kind

1531
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:16,640
Speaker 1: of a as a needing to get some context to

1532
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 1: kind of like what sci fi and future sci fi

1533
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,880
Speaker 1: was like doing at this time. I also watched Escape

1534
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 1: from New York, which is another is like the East

1535
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:27,920
Speaker 1: Coast version of the Future is Worse, also set in

1536
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, the late nineties, early twenty first century. Nineteen

1537
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 1: ninety nine, New York has been turned into a prison island.

1538
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:40,640
Speaker 1: Kurt Russell a you know, Snake Pliskin, this ex military

1539
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 1: guy who has been imprisoned for you know, running heists.

1540
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,599
Speaker 1: We are to assume is then given a one shot

1541
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:51,559
Speaker 1: deal to gain his freedom if he goes into New

1542
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:54,720
Speaker 1: York and freese the President whose plane has crashed there

1543
01:29:54,760 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 1: and has been taken prisoner by the gang, the King

1544
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:59,559
Speaker 1: of New York, the gang leader of New York. That

1545
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 1: isn't the movie where Okay, how do we show that

1546
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 1: New York is worse all the You know, it's overrun

1547
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,040
Speaker 1: with criminals, many of whom are black and brown, and

1548
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 1: all the female characters are in prison that you don't

1549
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 1: see any of them outside, and all the people in

1550
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 1: power who run the prison, and the people in the

1551
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:23,720
Speaker 1: jet with the President, except for the female terrorists who

1552
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: crashes the plane, are all white guys.

1553
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 2: I will say, though, John Coffin, it does a good

1554
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:31,240
Speaker 2: job in that movie, right well, the veron.

1555
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:35,840
Speaker 1: The subversion, but then the subversion, much like Blade Runner

1556
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:45,879
Speaker 1: is it's actually a statement about how America sees certain groups.

1557
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:51,560
Speaker 1: And it's it's basically about how the only way we're comfortable.

1558
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:55,720
Speaker 1: And when I say we, I say, like America, the

1559
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 1: only way America is most comfortable with people of color

1560
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 1: in the text of law enforcement enforcing exactly law enforcing

1561
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 1: their laws on them. And the same thing with women.

1562
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 1: Why are all the women in jail, because America is

1563
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 1: most comfortable with women when they're imposing their laws on them.

1564
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:18,600
Speaker 1: And and it's that kind of thing where geez, on

1565
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:21,599
Speaker 1: the on the surface, I'm not sure how to feel

1566
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:23,599
Speaker 1: about this, and then you dig down a little bit

1567
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:26,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh shit, yes. And also whether you.

1568
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 2: Meant this or now exactly. And I think the Blade

1569
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 2: Runner does a similar thing, like in that's a really

1570
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 2: great comparison, because Escape from New York, you know, the

1571
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 2: president socks and all the people around the President suck.

1572
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:42,599
Speaker 2: So this high, this hierarchical white American elite is actually

1573
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 2: also the villain. And I think something that Blade Runner

1574
01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 2: downe is the notion of like corporations as a villain.

1575
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 2: You know, Tyrell the villain. So even though they there

1576
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:53,640
Speaker 2: are these things in there that if you want to

1577
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 2: read into them that way, can seem quite radical. I mean,

1578
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 2: I've watched I love John Carpettes so much so I

1579
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 2: watch Escape from La and Escape from New York and

1580
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:03,679
Speaker 2: Escape from La actually quite a lot. I love Escape

1581
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:05,120
Speaker 2: from La, of course, I do. Come on, it's me.

1582
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:08,479
Speaker 2: I love every movie. I love every bad sequel, but like, well,

1583
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:10,679
Speaker 2: sequel that other people think is bad. I think it's good.

1584
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 2: Both times. When I've watched those movies, I'm like, I'd

1585
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:16,160
Speaker 2: like that. I'm like, just let me live in there.

1586
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:20,480
Speaker 2: I'm like the demilitarized zone where that it's like lawless

1587
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:22,880
Speaker 2: and there's no law enforcement. I'm like, please put me

1588
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 2: in there, Like, let's get to that dystopia, because I

1589
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:27,439
Speaker 2: think I I could thing could come out of that.

1590
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:31,200
Speaker 1: What's your what's your favorite Blade Runner scene?

1591
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:35,840
Speaker 2: My? Okay, so I know that the common answer is

1592
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 2: the Roy Batty speech, which is so amazing, and like

1593
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:41,599
Speaker 2: I said, Rucker Hoya is so great. But my favorite

1594
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 2: scene is this stuff. I love the noirri stuff between

1595
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 2: Rachel and Decard. I love enhanced something I still quote

1596
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 2: every single day, and.

1597
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 1: One of them quietly.

1598
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:56,639
Speaker 2: I still do it now in like every TV show,

1599
01:32:56,640 --> 01:33:00,719
Speaker 2: whether you're watching fucking Stranger Things or NCIS or probably

1600
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:04,280
Speaker 2: like east Enders, somebody's enhancing a fucking photo in a

1601
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 2: way that could never be enhanced. But my favorite stuff

1602
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:09,880
Speaker 2: is the JF Sebastian and Press stuff because I think

1603
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 2: that stuff is just so moving. That stuff just blows

1604
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 2: my mind every time I watch it. It gets me

1605
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:20,200
Speaker 2: in a gut punch it makes me almost so uncomfortable

1606
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 2: that I don't want to watch it, but I warm

1607
01:33:22,240 --> 01:33:24,280
Speaker 2: to it and I just think it's so good.

1608
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 1: I was about to say the exact same thing where

1609
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 1: their entire I can't call it a meet cute, but

1610
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 1: like when you know when she engineers, they're bumping into him.

1611
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 1: Everything that follows from there, talking about how old he is,

1612
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 1: he's got this genetic disorder that's making him age faster,

1613
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 1: and they connect over that, the fact that he his

1614
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 1: entire apartment is filled with these robots that her his friends.

1615
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:55,240
Speaker 1: He doesn't have friends, so he makes them. The fact

1616
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 1: that they're both weirdly on like the same kind of

1617
01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 1: maturity despite the fact that they are outwardly like adults.

1618
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 1: One because Chris is like three and a half or whatever,

1619
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, clearly near her date and and JF. Sebastian

1620
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 1: is just a person who like has been shunned by

1621
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:18,280
Speaker 1: the world and is operating on an intellectual level that

1622
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 1: doesn't allow him to connect to people. It's actually like,

1623
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:25,640
Speaker 1: it's actually heartbreaking. I do have one question, which is, like,

1624
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 1: why the fuck is JF. Sebastian like boiling six eggs

1625
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 1: forever on his sad.

1626
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:35,480
Speaker 2: Like he's just a weirdo. That's just like his weirdo

1627
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 2: you go to. I mean I still say in my house,

1628
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 2: home again, home again, jigny jig. That's like a classic phrase.

1629
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I think that I think that the

1630
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:50,960
Speaker 2: something that that movie does very well, that is very

1631
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 2: effective is that the notion of that similarity or bloodline

1632
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 2: between like the toys that JF has in his house

1633
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 2: and yeah, the replicants like that kind of the replicants

1634
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:08,000
Speaker 2: are seeking out this humanity, but really they're just these

1635
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 2: these toys, you know, these these Ballerina kind of dolls.

1636
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:15,639
Speaker 2: And Daryl Hannah is so brilliant as PRIs. I mean,

1637
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:18,680
Speaker 2: Sean Jung is also so so wonderful as Rachel. You know,

1638
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 2: I just think that I always remember Chris just made

1639
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,400
Speaker 2: me feel so sad as a little kid, and those

1640
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:28,760
Speaker 2: kind of memories really stick with you. You know, you're

1641
01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:31,679
Speaker 2: less bothered about the romance or the this and the that,

1642
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:35,760
Speaker 2: but those things that gut check you, that's really that's

1643
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:36,600
Speaker 2: really what gets you.

1644
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:41,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel the same way. Just anything about being

1645
01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 1: alone and trying to connect with anyone literally anyone else

1646
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:49,559
Speaker 1: about anything that was the thing that really stood out

1647
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:52,400
Speaker 1: to me that and the fact that I don't think

1648
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:54,680
Speaker 1: I had seen a movie up to that point that

1649
01:35:54,760 --> 01:36:00,400
Speaker 1: it ever like really explored. Not that I have called

1650
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:03,760
Speaker 1: it a moral question, but the moral question of are

1651
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:07,960
Speaker 1: if robots are as smart as us with thoughts like this,

1652
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:12,120
Speaker 1: then are they alive? And what is how do we

1653
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:12,720
Speaker 1: treat them?

1654
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 2: You know?

1655
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:15,840
Speaker 1: Two thousand Ones, which I maybe had seen around the

1656
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:18,360
Speaker 1: same time, kind of deals with this.

1657
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:21,880
Speaker 2: Definitely a lot more of an emotional hop.

1658
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:26,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, with hal as mainly like a psycho you know,

1659
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:29,160
Speaker 1: like just like a companion and then a psycho killer.

1660
01:36:29,200 --> 01:36:31,400
Speaker 1: And it's not really until the end where he's like

1661
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 1: begging for his life like Dave, I'm afraid, don't unplug

1662
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:38,200
Speaker 1: me where you are like whoa, oh god, what what

1663
01:36:38,360 --> 01:36:41,760
Speaker 1: is this? But Blade Runner is all of that, and

1664
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:44,840
Speaker 1: that is something that I could not stop thinking about

1665
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 1: when I first saw the movie. God, if you if

1666
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:49,320
Speaker 1: we could make like if we can make Robbie the

1667
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:55,240
Speaker 1: Robot or or or Tweety from Buck Rogers, like, then

1668
01:36:57,360 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 1: how could you just turn them off exactly two or

1669
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 1: like or c three people? Like why is why would

1670
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:05,040
Speaker 1: it be okay to just turn them off?

1671
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 2: There?

1672
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that is something I this movie inspired me

1673
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:13,479
Speaker 1: to think about and I have not been able to

1674
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:17,639
Speaker 1: stop thinking about since. Do you have any any other

1675
01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 1: favorite moments?

1676
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:21,519
Speaker 2: I mean, I just the whole movie is really quite

1677
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:24,160
Speaker 2: when you watch it, especially if it's been I love

1678
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:26,680
Speaker 2: to listen to people who are like younger than me

1679
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 2: talking about it because I feel like it's such a

1680
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 2: perennial part of my life that it's almost like a

1681
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:35,600
Speaker 2: cozy blanket, like you know, we were to me. This

1682
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:40,799
Speaker 2: is like it fits into that like popcorn movie realm,

1683
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:44,080
Speaker 2: but like an auto driven popcorn movie, like you know,

1684
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 2: I would say the first Jurassic Park fits into that,

1685
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:48,480
Speaker 2: though it's definitely more on the popcorn side of the spectrum.

1686
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:52,280
Speaker 2: But you know, ET definitely Jaws movies where there's a

1687
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 2: lot of moments where I saw Jaws on the beach

1688
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:58,760
Speaker 2: in Long Beach, which is just brilliant. But like I've

1689
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 2: seen that movie so many times, but I was thinking,

1690
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:02,519
Speaker 2: when I was on the beach, I was like, there's

1691
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:03,960
Speaker 2: a lot of kids there, you know, there's a lot

1692
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,760
Speaker 2: of families. It's free screening, and there's a good like

1693
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:09,200
Speaker 2: twenty five minutes of them just like getting drunk and

1694
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:12,599
Speaker 2: singing sea shanties, and I was like, how is this

1695
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:16,800
Speaker 2: the movie that made a blockbuster summer be a thing?

1696
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:19,240
Speaker 2: You know? So I think that this fits into that

1697
01:38:19,240 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 2: realm for me where there's just so much that I

1698
01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:22,720
Speaker 2: like about it and watching it is kind of like

1699
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:25,680
Speaker 2: a it's just a comfort thing at this point. I mean,

1700
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:28,120
Speaker 2: I'm I'm not. There was a lot of other movies

1701
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:33,880
Speaker 2: that in my grand scheme of movies I I would

1702
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:36,599
Speaker 2: place higher than Blade Runner. Now, probably most a lot

1703
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:39,519
Speaker 2: to do with the closeness I have to the movie,

1704
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:41,840
Speaker 2: but like, I was not at all surprised this was

1705
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 2: the movie that are very clever listening and it's kicked

1706
01:38:44,280 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 2: because this is the iconic There's so many movies from

1707
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:50,000
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, but this is that movie that has

1708
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:51,920
Speaker 2: taken on this legacy.

1709
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 1: I think you could very easily argue it's the most influential.

1710
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:58,559
Speaker 1: Like but you know, there's any number of interviews with

1711
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:03,679
Speaker 1: filmmaker is Christopher Nolan, etc. Who have said, Oh, Blade Runner,

1712
01:39:03,720 --> 01:39:08,120
Speaker 1: that really inspired the kind of look and feel of.

1713
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone wants to make that own Blade Runner.

1714
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. With that, we know we must now bring in

1715
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:21,479
Speaker 1: super producer Saul who loves this movie and wants to

1716
01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 1: talk about his feelings about Blader.

1717
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 2: Yah Seil has some of the Steel, has some very

1718
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:33,559
Speaker 2: insightful takes on why the movie has had the legacy

1719
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:36,400
Speaker 2: it has on like a thematic level and emotional level

1720
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:40,000
Speaker 2: and yeah, and I'm just I'm really excited him to

1721
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:40,679
Speaker 2: dig into them.

1722
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:48,800
Speaker 7: Well, thank you for that welcome. I mean, it's the

1723
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:51,320
Speaker 7: legacy of Blade Runner. I think is like, as you

1724
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 7: guys have alluded to or talked about a lot, it's

1725
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 7: really complicated. It's like it's not a flawless movie, but again,

1726
01:39:56,520 --> 01:39:59,200
Speaker 7: like what movie is. It's like, to paraphrase GAF it's

1727
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 7: like who you know, she can't live? But who does?

1728
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:03,040
Speaker 2: Like real?

1729
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 1: Right?

1730
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 7: And and I you know, I think to me, like

1731
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:11,400
Speaker 7: I'm a person who really believes in like loving something

1732
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:15,280
Speaker 7: flaws and all, like that's just part of art. And uh,

1733
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:16,960
Speaker 7: I think blad Runner is a movie that really has

1734
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:19,880
Speaker 7: that quality of like you, I like, is Rick Decker

1735
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:22,400
Speaker 7: kind of like a passive, weirdly like kind of a creep?

1736
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:24,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1737
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:27,960
Speaker 7: Is Roy Baddy the true anti villain hero of the film,

1738
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 7: like one hundred percent?

1739
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:30,200
Speaker 3: Like is it?

1740
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,640
Speaker 7: Are there a lot of strange like religious iconography that

1741
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:35,519
Speaker 7: somehow like fit but don't fit, and you're kind of like,

1742
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:38,719
Speaker 7: why is he misquoting William Blake all of a sudden,

1743
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 7: Like it's a really random thing and yet it works

1744
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 7: and it's and it's stagy and uh, you know, like

1745
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:51,080
Speaker 7: but like one thing I love about Blade Runner, like

1746
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:53,720
Speaker 7: I have a very personal connection like Rosie does to

1747
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:54,120
Speaker 7: the movie.

1748
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 3: Like I think the first.

1749
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:56,920
Speaker 7: Time I saw it was like maybe when I was

1750
01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:58,760
Speaker 7: like nine or ten, and at the same time, my

1751
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:02,840
Speaker 7: grandfather was, you know, getting diagnosed with dementia right around

1752
01:41:02,840 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 7: that time. And I think the first time, as Jason said,

1753
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:08,000
Speaker 7: is you watch it, you don't you don't know what

1754
01:41:08,040 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 7: it's tucking about. It's just like it's hovercrafts. It's like

1755
01:41:12,200 --> 01:41:16,759
Speaker 7: shadows their cigarettes, people are staring like longingly at cameras

1756
01:41:17,439 --> 01:41:19,680
Speaker 7: kind and you're just kind of like, whoa, what is this?

1757
01:41:19,920 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 7: But watching it over and over again over the nine

1758
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:28,640
Speaker 7: years or so that my grandfather basically went from vitality

1759
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:35,200
Speaker 7: to husk of himself. Something about that like has just

1760
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:36,880
Speaker 7: stayed with me about the movie Blade On, And I

1761
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:38,360
Speaker 7: think the reason it didn't I didn't even realize it

1762
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:41,599
Speaker 7: until I just revisited it for this episode and rewatched

1763
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:43,560
Speaker 7: it again for like the dozen and half dozens you

1764
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 7: know whatever.

1765
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:48,240
Speaker 3: Time was just like it's a movie, unlike.

1766
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,800
Speaker 7: A lot of movies that like, to me like really

1767
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:55,759
Speaker 7: centers memory and dementia. Is like watching my grandfather lose

1768
01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:59,760
Speaker 7: his memory and seeing that memory was such a core

1769
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:02,240
Speaker 7: part of him and a core part of everybody. Like

1770
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:05,280
Speaker 7: it's like that's who we are, Like those experiences.

1771
01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the sorry go ahead.

1772
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:09,120
Speaker 7: No, I was just gonna say, and losing it like

1773
01:42:09,160 --> 01:42:11,639
Speaker 7: watching my grandfather lose it, and then to see these

1774
01:42:12,120 --> 01:42:15,800
Speaker 7: characters whether they're human or replicant and like talk about

1775
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:18,439
Speaker 7: memories or like have these photographs and photographs are a

1776
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:21,160
Speaker 7: big thing for me, like artifacts, like we talk with

1777
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:23,439
Speaker 7: the artifact era of the MCU, and to me like

1778
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 7: Blade Runner is a movie that understands like the physical

1779
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:31,280
Speaker 7: artifacts that we carry or like the tokens that we

1780
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 7: keep with us to memorialize the past and the forgotten

1781
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:41,200
Speaker 7: or not forgotten. And something about it touches me on

1782
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:44,200
Speaker 7: that way. But the way it centers memory and for

1783
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 7: all of the characters and the things that they experience.

1784
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:53,479
Speaker 1: Let's talk about you mentioned Deckard being a little bit

1785
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 1: of a creep. Oh, yeah, it's impossible to not note

1786
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 1: in the light of twenty twenty two the scene where

1787
01:43:01,560 --> 01:43:04,519
Speaker 1: he and Rachel have it out in his apartment. He's

1788
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, she knows now that she is a replicant.

1789
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:15,799
Speaker 1: She's trying to flee, but he keeps her from leaving

1790
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:21,400
Speaker 1: and doesn't attack her. But it's very clear that he

1791
01:43:21,479 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: keeps her from like she wants to leave and he

1792
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:27,560
Speaker 1: doesn't let her. Now, on the one hand, it's creepy.

1793
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:30,360
Speaker 1: There's another reading which I want to run by you,

1794
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:32,639
Speaker 1: which I don't know if I believe in. But obviously

1795
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:35,120
Speaker 1: there's this big question of whether Deckard is a replicant,

1796
01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:38,880
Speaker 1: and he just we had just seen him reel off

1797
01:43:39,240 --> 01:43:42,920
Speaker 1: multiple memories that Rachel had never told anyone about that

1798
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:49,160
Speaker 1: he knew about. Is there a way to read this

1799
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:55,879
Speaker 1: scene as I deckerd have just looked into this replicant's files.

1800
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: I know about her memories, I know how she's going

1801
01:43:58,240 --> 01:44:00,559
Speaker 1: to react, and I know that this is not crossing

1802
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:01,240
Speaker 1: a line.

1803
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:05,000
Speaker 2: I wonder. I think it's actually a very prescient Blade

1804
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:07,800
Speaker 2: Runner moment, because I think that you could read it

1805
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:10,160
Speaker 2: as like if he is a replicant, which I think

1806
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:12,760
Speaker 2: all three of us are on that side of like

1807
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 2: a big conversation we still have today about the notion

1808
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:24,400
Speaker 2: of technology taking on the personality traits and the bigotry

1809
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:26,960
Speaker 2: and the beliefs of the people who created it. So

1810
01:44:27,080 --> 01:44:31,599
Speaker 2: I kind of always feel like he's misogynistic or he's

1811
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:33,840
Speaker 2: not afraid of being violent to women, because that's who

1812
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 2: programmed him. You've got to do what you need to do,

1813
01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:39,559
Speaker 2: you've got to kill someone. That to me, I kind

1814
01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:42,599
Speaker 2: of like that reading where it's not even a conscious decision,

1815
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:45,880
Speaker 2: it's just kind of that's how he was programmed.

1816
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:48,839
Speaker 1: I mean, in the same way that Chris says. I think, therefore,

1817
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:50,680
Speaker 1: I am, does she know what she's talking about? Does

1818
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:53,120
Speaker 1: she know where that quote comes from? She's just doing

1819
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:56,639
Speaker 1: the thing that she's heard, because that's what you do,

1820
01:44:56,880 --> 01:45:00,479
Speaker 1: that's the information she's been given. It's a very similar

1821
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 1: thing to way to read that. Yeah.

1822
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:04,360
Speaker 7: To me though, like that's the critical part of it.

1823
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:06,519
Speaker 7: Like you said, like Chris is doing what she's been

1824
01:45:06,520 --> 01:45:10,719
Speaker 7: told or what she's seen or understood from her surroundings,

1825
01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:14,040
Speaker 7: Like that's just what being a human is. Te No,

1826
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:17,599
Speaker 7: there's no difference between that and a replicant like Rosie.

1827
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:18,800
Speaker 7: You mentioned like we're all on the same side as

1828
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:20,840
Speaker 7: Decord replicant, and like, if you pressed me, I would say, yes,

1829
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 7: Decord is a replicant, Like I believe that, agree that,

1830
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 7: but I actually think it's kind of a trick question. Yeah,

1831
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:27,800
Speaker 7: Like I don't think it actually matters in the fact

1832
01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:29,719
Speaker 7: that we ask is he a replicant or a human?

1833
01:45:30,040 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 2: Is that's the point?

1834
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:32,479
Speaker 3: Is a trick question.

1835
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:34,280
Speaker 7: It's the point like the fact that we're asking is

1836
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:36,720
Speaker 7: because we're missing something critical, which is that there is

1837
01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:40,719
Speaker 7: no difference. They are the same thing. It's just at

1838
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:43,920
Speaker 7: radically different points in their life. Like I wrote a

1839
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:47,160
Speaker 7: long set of docs for this conversation thinking about the movie,

1840
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:49,760
Speaker 7: and like there are three preoccupations I think the movie

1841
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:51,439
Speaker 7: has for me at least when I watch it, and

1842
01:45:51,479 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 7: it's memory, time, and aspiration. And it's like the characters

1843
01:45:54,880 --> 01:45:58,760
Speaker 7: are obsessed with memory and thinking about the past and

1844
01:45:59,439 --> 01:46:00,760
Speaker 7: having these memories, and.

1845
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:02,880
Speaker 3: Visual memory particularly comes up all the time.

1846
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:05,799
Speaker 7: The Replicans are always killing people by plugging in their eyes.

1847
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:08,000
Speaker 7: It's like that's that's for whatever reason, like one of

1848
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:10,080
Speaker 7: the weirdest ways of killing a person, But this is

1849
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:12,120
Speaker 7: how they kill people is just let me just plug

1850
01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:16,000
Speaker 7: your eyes out and time like they're always talking about time,

1851
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:18,479
Speaker 7: time to die. I need like got to find more time.

1852
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:20,800
Speaker 7: It's about inceptates but death. And it's like if you

1853
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:22,400
Speaker 7: knew when you were going to die, if you knew

1854
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:25,680
Speaker 7: your inceptdate like or the end point the way that

1855
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:28,519
Speaker 7: these replicants know are trying to find out, wouldn't you

1856
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:29,080
Speaker 7: want to know?

1857
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 3: Wouldn't we all also as well?

1858
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:33,519
Speaker 2: I think all humans do live that way, like we

1859
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:36,360
Speaker 2: only yea even though we have a you know, however

1860
01:46:36,439 --> 01:46:38,439
Speaker 2: much time we have, we don't know how much time

1861
01:46:38,479 --> 01:46:40,799
Speaker 2: we have. We just know it's limited. There's no way

1862
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:43,400
Speaker 2: that that ends. And I think in that way, that

1863
01:46:43,439 --> 01:46:46,800
Speaker 2: and the aspect of memory as a key tenant of humanity,

1864
01:46:47,320 --> 01:46:52,120
Speaker 2: I think both of those things push that notion of

1865
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:55,479
Speaker 2: the point of that replicants and humans are are very

1866
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:56,800
Speaker 2: similar in that.

1867
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:59,200
Speaker 7: And it's to that to your point about like we

1868
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:01,600
Speaker 7: you say, like you have leomen aount of time, you

1869
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 7: have to live knowing the amount of time. That's aspiration,

1870
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:07,040
Speaker 7: that's carpe DM like in some ways, like is Roy

1871
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:10,640
Speaker 7: Baddie just like carpe dming the shit out of like

1872
01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:13,880
Speaker 7: what he's doing, Like it's just seized the day, and

1873
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:16,280
Speaker 7: he's just he's got only so much time. And you

1874
01:47:16,320 --> 01:47:18,360
Speaker 7: see that at the end when he's fished, he's like, literally,

1875
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:20,720
Speaker 7: I'm gonna stick a nail in my fist. Also nice

1876
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:23,200
Speaker 7: little Jesus reference, but he's gonna stick a nail in

1877
01:47:23,240 --> 01:47:25,639
Speaker 7: his fist because he he only has so much time

1878
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 7: and he's just trying to make it count. And you know,

1879
01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:33,160
Speaker 7: like I think again, flaws and all with the movie,

1880
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:36,960
Speaker 7: and I fully see, like there's so many problems with

1881
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:38,960
Speaker 7: the movie, and like, you know, continuity or is I

1882
01:47:38,960 --> 01:47:39,880
Speaker 7: think are like the least of them.

1883
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I've never noticed until I'm not started

1884
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:45,559
Speaker 1: getting fixed.

1885
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:49,280
Speaker 2: I notice guy or I like to notice a funny

1886
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:52,240
Speaker 2: continuity era, but generally I'm gonna go with the flow,

1887
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:54,559
Speaker 2: go with the vibe of the movie, and if it

1888
01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:57,400
Speaker 2: doesn't take away from that, that's not something that I

1889
01:47:57,479 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 2: tend to notice.

1890
01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:05,040
Speaker 1: Let's let's end with finally, why we believe Decard is

1891
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:09,800
Speaker 1: a replicant. On the pro side, we have the Unicorn scene.

1892
01:48:10,439 --> 01:48:15,640
Speaker 1: On the con side, we have that all the replicants

1893
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:18,719
Speaker 1: are super fucking strong and Deckard is just a fucking guy.

1894
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:22,760
Speaker 1: What's up? Why do we believe that Deckard is a

1895
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:24,439
Speaker 1: replicant saw, Yeah, yes, sir.

1896
01:48:24,439 --> 01:48:26,680
Speaker 2: And talk about it in the context of like I

1897
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 2: like this notion where it doesn't matter, So why does

1898
01:48:29,400 --> 01:48:31,200
Speaker 2: it matter to people that he is? Well, why does

1899
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:33,360
Speaker 2: it matter to that question that he actually is?

1900
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:37,559
Speaker 7: I think if I was pressed again, like I would

1901
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:39,960
Speaker 7: say Decard is a replicant, like why does it matter

1902
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:43,680
Speaker 7: people ask the question? Because you want to create some

1903
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,520
Speaker 7: I think it's natural to create some kind of distinguishing

1904
01:48:46,920 --> 01:48:49,120
Speaker 7: characteristics between people, like this is what we do. It's

1905
01:48:49,160 --> 01:48:50,840
Speaker 7: like you kind of have implicit biases that you just

1906
01:48:50,880 --> 01:48:53,320
Speaker 7: sort of draw, and I think I don't know in

1907
01:48:53,360 --> 01:48:57,479
Speaker 7: my mind, people create a distinguishing thing. And yes, is

1908
01:48:57,520 --> 01:48:58,559
Speaker 7: Deckord super strong?

1909
01:48:58,720 --> 01:48:58,800
Speaker 6: No?

1910
01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:01,600
Speaker 7: But like he fucking he does manage to kill all

1911
01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:04,479
Speaker 7: of them, right, well, I mean worybody does sort of

1912
01:49:04,479 --> 01:49:06,000
Speaker 7: die on He's.

1913
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:08,720
Speaker 2: Got like the Joker death. It's like, is is it

1914
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:09,400
Speaker 2: his fault?

1915
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:12,680
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I mean he doesn't kill he doesn't kill

1916
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:13,599
Speaker 1: Leon either.

1917
01:49:13,680 --> 01:49:17,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, Rachel. Rachel handles that job, which is like I mean,

1918
01:49:18,520 --> 01:49:22,160
Speaker 7: I don't know. I just think like is Decker to replicant?

1919
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:23,720
Speaker 3: Yes? But do I care?

1920
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:26,800
Speaker 7: Like not really, Like I'll be honest, like that's not

1921
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:31,280
Speaker 7: a question I have ever really thought about in the

1922
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:33,400
Speaker 7: sense that like I've thought that was just a given

1923
01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:36,320
Speaker 7: and like, to me, the real important question is not

1924
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:38,920
Speaker 7: like is he a replicant, but like why are we

1925
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:40,160
Speaker 7: even asking if he's a replican?

1926
01:49:40,280 --> 01:49:42,080
Speaker 3: Like should it matter? I don't. I don't think it

1927
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:42,479
Speaker 3: really does.

1928
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:43,800
Speaker 2: I think it's well, I think it is one of

1929
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:46,479
Speaker 2: those interesting things right, like it doesn't. It doesn't in

1930
01:49:46,520 --> 01:49:49,560
Speaker 2: that way. It's like Schroding is replicant, Like to understand

1931
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:52,559
Speaker 2: he's like, to understand the movie and care about it,

1932
01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 2: you have to ask the question. I believe he is.

1933
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:58,120
Speaker 2: I always thought, ever since I was a kid, I

1934
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:00,519
Speaker 2: just thought that was the movie. And it was really

1935
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:03,120
Speaker 2: shocking to me when I kind of realized that wasn't

1936
01:50:03,240 --> 01:50:06,360
Speaker 2: the text of the movie, because I just thought, I

1937
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:10,600
Speaker 2: think this is an empathy thing. And I think I

1938
01:50:10,640 --> 01:50:13,360
Speaker 2: didn't realize as a kid, but like I was wondering, like, well,

1939
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:15,840
Speaker 2: why would a human kill them? Like I just didn't

1940
01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:18,160
Speaker 2: really understand. I knew humans wanted to kill them, but

1941
01:50:18,160 --> 01:50:21,439
Speaker 2: wouldn't you have that choice to not? You know? To me,

1942
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:25,680
Speaker 2: I think the reason, I think the reason why the

1943
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:28,360
Speaker 2: biggest argument for Y decad is a replicant, aside from

1944
01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:29,920
Speaker 2: the proof, which I feel like in two thousand and

1945
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:33,920
Speaker 2: seven Final Cut is pretty succinctly like he is. I

1946
01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:38,679
Speaker 2: just think it's the narrative option that has the most

1947
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:44,080
Speaker 2: tragedy and a very tragic story. I think it's like

1948
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:48,320
Speaker 2: Jason said, it's actually incredibly cruel because he's not the

1949
01:50:48,360 --> 01:50:51,920
Speaker 2: smartest or fastest, he's not the newest, and he has,

1950
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:55,640
Speaker 2: like every other replicant, he has a notion that he

1951
01:50:55,680 --> 01:50:58,080
Speaker 2: has existed for a certain amount of time. We don't

1952
01:50:58,080 --> 01:51:00,719
Speaker 2: know for all we know he literally we just woke

1953
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:03,280
Speaker 2: up that first moment that we saw him. That's when

1954
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:05,240
Speaker 2: he got and everyone around him just has to act

1955
01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 2: like it because they know what his skills are. I

1956
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:11,000
Speaker 2: think that is incredibly sad in like the best Bleak

1957
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:14,639
Speaker 2: Blade Runaway, And I think that's why for me, even

1958
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:16,160
Speaker 2: if Ridley Scott came out and was like, he's not

1959
01:51:16,200 --> 01:51:17,919
Speaker 2: a replicant, he was never meant to be a replicant,

1960
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:20,439
Speaker 2: I'd be like, cool, this is just this yeah, I

1961
01:51:20,520 --> 01:51:22,559
Speaker 2: mean you know, I'm like, this is just my head canon,

1962
01:51:22,920 --> 01:51:24,960
Speaker 2: and that works for me as well, like my my

1963
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:27,920
Speaker 2: read of the story. That's what makes it work for

1964
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:30,280
Speaker 2: me is is the sadness of that and the hope

1965
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:35,800
Speaker 2: that maybe him and Rachel find some connection in this

1966
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:38,519
Speaker 2: unexpected like reveals of their lives or whatever.

1967
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:42,000
Speaker 1: Here is Here is why I believe that Decker is

1968
01:51:42,040 --> 01:51:46,519
Speaker 1: a replicant. One the unicorn obviously, and then two, although

1969
01:51:46,560 --> 01:51:49,519
Speaker 1: that then gets us into how did Gaff know? How

1970
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:52,000
Speaker 1: does he see the fire like blah blah blah whatever.

1971
01:51:52,000 --> 01:51:54,400
Speaker 1: We can figure that out later. Yeah, But the real,

1972
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:57,840
Speaker 1: the real to me, the real proof is that in

1973
01:51:57,880 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 1: this society, replicans do all the hard work, they do

1974
01:52:03,160 --> 01:52:05,599
Speaker 1: all the dangerous shit. They are They are the ones

1975
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:07,720
Speaker 1: sent to the minds. They are the ones sent off

1976
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:10,280
Speaker 1: world to go work like fucking next to the sun.

1977
01:52:12,439 --> 01:52:14,960
Speaker 1: They are the ones who do sex work. They are

1978
01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:17,760
Speaker 1: the ones who do the dangerous shit. It's not the

1979
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:21,439
Speaker 1: fucking lieutenant or Gaff or anybody that goes and chases

1980
01:52:21,479 --> 01:52:24,639
Speaker 1: the replicans. Why would they do to get the replica

1981
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:30,759
Speaker 1: replican to go do the dangerous shit. That's why I

1982
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:33,759
Speaker 1: believe he's a replicat. And as to why does it matter?

1983
01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:36,799
Speaker 1: I agree and I like Rosie, I agree and I disagree.

1984
01:52:36,840 --> 01:52:39,719
Speaker 1: I think it it doesn't matter in the sense that

1985
01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:44,479
Speaker 1: everybody in this story is alive and is a conscious being.

1986
01:52:44,920 --> 01:52:49,840
Speaker 1: It matters in the sense that, like you mentioned, Saul,

1987
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 1: that like you have to accept this movie warts and All,

1988
01:52:53,200 --> 01:52:56,840
Speaker 1: I think we in a conversation about like what makes

1989
01:52:57,160 --> 01:53:00,720
Speaker 1: a living thinking being a living thinking being, you have

1990
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:03,680
Speaker 1: to also for me, I also have to accept like

1991
01:53:04,080 --> 01:53:09,720
Speaker 1: the human state warts and all. And I think an

1992
01:53:09,760 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 1: absolutely essential part of being a person is who's like

1993
01:53:16,280 --> 01:53:19,360
Speaker 1: me and who is not like me? Are they part

1994
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:21,720
Speaker 1: of our group or are they part of not? Are

1995
01:53:21,720 --> 01:53:23,800
Speaker 1: they not part of our group? Are they human or

1996
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:26,160
Speaker 1: are they not human? Are they from here or are

1997
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:28,040
Speaker 1: they not from here? Are they American or are they

1998
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:32,000
Speaker 1: not American? And I think that question is decred like

1999
01:53:32,160 --> 01:53:34,519
Speaker 1: us or is he not like us? Like them? Or

2000
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:39,360
Speaker 1: is he like us? Is an essential question because that's

2001
01:53:40,200 --> 01:53:45,479
Speaker 1: an essentially human question that is both extremely dark and

2002
01:53:45,560 --> 01:53:49,120
Speaker 1: destructive and is also like extremely welcoming when you decide

2003
01:53:49,160 --> 01:53:53,960
Speaker 1: that hey, we are all yes, we are all thinking beings,

2004
01:53:54,040 --> 01:53:56,679
Speaker 1: and we are all the same. There's something universal going

2005
01:53:56,720 --> 01:54:01,760
Speaker 1: on here. But I think that desire to exclude as

2006
01:54:01,800 --> 01:54:06,679
Speaker 1: much as include is just part of what drives us.

2007
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:08,240
Speaker 1: And I think that's why it's important.

2008
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:09,880
Speaker 3: When I was talking about biases earlier.

2009
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:12,640
Speaker 7: That's I think that's what I mean, like the biases

2010
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:18,759
Speaker 7: people have towards others. The default is asking those questions,

2011
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:21,599
Speaker 7: And again, I guess maybe this is more.

2012
01:54:21,520 --> 01:54:23,599
Speaker 3: Of a not deeper philosophical question.

2013
01:54:23,640 --> 01:54:25,200
Speaker 7: You would say, like, this is what humans do, and

2014
01:54:25,240 --> 01:54:27,280
Speaker 7: I agree with that, but I guess like the next

2015
01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:29,120
Speaker 7: level down is like, well, why do we have to

2016
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:29,360
Speaker 7: do that?

2017
01:54:29,400 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 3: Like is there a way to not do that? Should? Should?

2018
01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:31,920
Speaker 1: We?

2019
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 3: Should? Is there some way?

2020
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:36,520
Speaker 1: Like you know, haven't figured it out yet?

2021
01:54:36,520 --> 01:54:39,360
Speaker 2: You have figured out and we're certainly.

2022
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:40,920
Speaker 3: Not going to figure it out in this episode of Extra.

2023
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:43,520
Speaker 2: But I think you're right, and I think that that

2024
01:54:43,560 --> 01:54:48,240
Speaker 2: actually might be this secret of the true dystopian nature

2025
01:54:48,280 --> 01:54:54,120
Speaker 2: of Blade Runner is that instead of having the time

2026
01:54:54,720 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 2: and this space to wonder about that question, the movie

2027
01:55:01,440 --> 01:55:04,120
Speaker 2: just tells you there is a difference, and that's what

2028
01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:06,480
Speaker 2: Mattens and everyone perceives it that way. I think that's

2029
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:08,720
Speaker 2: the difference between like a dystopian story and like a

2030
01:55:08,840 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 2: utopian story, wherein a vision of a utopian future would

2031
01:55:12,480 --> 01:55:17,160
Speaker 2: imagine and ask that question of why and why? Who

2032
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:19,800
Speaker 2: who were the ones who made us ask that question?

2033
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:22,920
Speaker 2: What is the nature of society that makes you have

2034
01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:25,040
Speaker 2: to ask is it us or is it them? I

2035
01:55:25,080 --> 01:55:27,280
Speaker 2: think that's that big difference, and that's another part of

2036
01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:30,200
Speaker 2: that power, that dystopian like bleak power of Blade Runner

2037
01:55:30,520 --> 01:55:33,919
Speaker 2: is it's more of just a statement on that factor.

2038
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:37,080
Speaker 2: The people who are the workers, the people who suffer

2039
01:55:37,120 --> 01:55:38,000
Speaker 2: and they are the other.

2040
01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:38,480
Speaker 4: You know.

2041
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:41,560
Speaker 2: That's that's like a such a real world tragedy.

2042
01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Saul, thanks so much for joining this conversation.

2043
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna do more stuff like this where we pick

2044
01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:54,360
Speaker 1: different movies, different shows, different things to talk about as

2045
01:55:54,480 --> 01:55:58,200
Speaker 1: you know, as time allows in our schedule. Up next,

2046
01:55:58,240 --> 01:56:09,040
Speaker 1: HiveMind with Miss Marvel showrunner Bisher Ali. Welcome to the

2047
01:56:09,080 --> 01:56:11,440
Speaker 1: Hive Mind, where we explore a topic in more detail

2048
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:14,280
Speaker 1: with the help of expert guests. We were absolutely thrilled

2049
01:56:14,320 --> 01:56:17,839
Speaker 1: to feature an interview between Rosie and Miss Marvel showrunner

2050
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:18,480
Speaker 1: Bisher Ali.

2051
01:56:18,920 --> 01:56:21,800
Speaker 2: We are so thrilled to welcome to Xtra Vision the

2052
01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:24,880
Speaker 2: series creator, head writer and executive producer of Miss Marvel.

2053
01:56:25,080 --> 01:56:28,760
Speaker 2: Bisho k Ali bish thank you so much for joining us.

2054
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:30,160
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.

2055
01:56:30,320 --> 01:56:33,040
Speaker 8: That was a great like an MC bringing on stage introduction.

2056
01:56:33,080 --> 01:56:36,080
Speaker 8: I'm very impressed with the energy you put what a tree?

2057
01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:38,520
Speaker 8: And thank you for having me such a pleasure.

2058
01:56:39,120 --> 01:56:42,160
Speaker 2: We're such fans of this show, like Miss Marvel is

2059
01:56:42,160 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 2: such an important character for me. I used to work

2060
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:48,400
Speaker 2: in a comic shop in the US. Orbital.

2061
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:51,880
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, that's great.

2062
01:56:52,200 --> 01:56:54,080
Speaker 8: I feel like I think Orbital is where I first

2063
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:56,880
Speaker 8: picked up Did I buy it from you?

2064
01:56:57,360 --> 01:56:58,520
Speaker 2: It could have happened.

2065
01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:01,600
Speaker 8: I feel like Orpitals where I first picked up Miss

2066
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:03,560
Speaker 8: Marvel the comic back in twenty fourteen.

2067
01:57:03,760 --> 01:57:05,640
Speaker 2: It was one of the I was there a little

2068
01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:08,600
Speaker 2: bit later, but even then it was still one of

2069
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:12,680
Speaker 2: the perennial Excuse me, what's a good comic to buy? Yes,

2070
01:57:13,040 --> 01:57:13,920
Speaker 2: it's Miss Marvel.

2071
01:57:14,040 --> 01:57:17,120
Speaker 5: It's volume set, so I saga of its day?

2072
01:57:17,560 --> 01:57:21,000
Speaker 2: Right? It was. It was the first time in a

2073
01:57:21,040 --> 01:57:23,800
Speaker 2: long time that a book took the whole comic book

2074
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:27,760
Speaker 2: fandom by storm. Everyone wanted to read it, six seven reprints,

2075
01:57:27,800 --> 01:57:31,320
Speaker 2: something that barely happened in those days of the first issue.

2076
01:57:31,400 --> 01:57:33,400
Speaker 2: So what was kind of this is a great way, actually,

2077
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:37,000
Speaker 2: what was kind of your comic book slash Miss Marvel

2078
01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:39,400
Speaker 2: origin story? That's something we talk about a lot on here.

2079
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:41,640
Speaker 2: What got you to fall in love with the medium

2080
01:57:41,720 --> 01:57:42,600
Speaker 2: and this character?

2081
01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:45,120
Speaker 8: In terms of the medium kind of comic books generally,

2082
01:57:45,600 --> 01:57:47,600
Speaker 8: I mean I was twenty fourteen. For me, I was

2083
01:57:48,200 --> 01:57:49,960
Speaker 8: I can't even do the mass right now? What was

2084
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:52,480
Speaker 8: that six seven, eight years ago? So I was in

2085
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:55,760
Speaker 8: my early early mid twenties by then. So in terms

2086
01:57:55,760 --> 01:58:00,120
Speaker 8: of like formation of comic book fandom, I used to

2087
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:01,800
Speaker 8: go to the library and get the comic books out

2088
01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:04,400
Speaker 8: because they weren't really they wouldn't really like age check

2089
01:58:04,520 --> 01:58:06,600
Speaker 8: them the way the other books are kind of like

2090
01:58:06,720 --> 01:58:08,680
Speaker 8: hands of library, like, yeah, sure you want to read Preacher.

2091
01:58:08,720 --> 01:58:14,080
Speaker 8: You's nine year old, go for it, which indeed like so.

2092
01:58:14,200 --> 01:58:15,880
Speaker 8: And also I think my brother was an influencer that

2093
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:17,680
Speaker 8: as well. So he was reading Preacher and then he

2094
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:19,480
Speaker 8: finished it, and then I'd read it, so it was

2095
01:58:19,560 --> 01:58:21,880
Speaker 8: kind of that was part of that time. And also

2096
01:58:21,960 --> 01:58:23,600
Speaker 8: I think my mom would like drop us off at

2097
01:58:23,640 --> 01:58:25,440
Speaker 8: the library, go do the whatever you need to do

2098
01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:26,880
Speaker 8: on the high street, and that's where we'd be. So

2099
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:29,840
Speaker 8: you're reading comic books as well. So Preacher was a

2100
01:58:29,880 --> 01:58:32,200
Speaker 8: big one for for me. Like I've read a very

2101
01:58:32,240 --> 01:58:34,400
Speaker 8: far too young swamp thing that I was more run

2102
01:58:34,440 --> 01:58:37,480
Speaker 8: on swamp thing. Just I still have like this yearning

2103
01:58:37,560 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 8: for that comic book. Somehow there's something about this inherently

2104
01:58:40,360 --> 01:58:43,520
Speaker 8: tragic about that character that I just kill the deep

2105
01:58:43,560 --> 01:58:44,280
Speaker 8: affinity too.

2106
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:47,680
Speaker 2: We're truly kindred spirits. I actually have a swamp thing tattoo.

2107
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:51,200
Speaker 5: Oh really, I read, I showed me in real time.

2108
01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:52,320
Speaker 5: I loved that.

2109
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:57,800
Speaker 2: Noticed iconic iconic influences.

2110
01:58:57,240 --> 01:59:01,800
Speaker 8: No, absolutely, and I think also Sandman my Goodness, like rough,

2111
01:59:02,360 --> 01:59:04,960
Speaker 8: you know, all those things are really kind of there

2112
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:07,760
Speaker 8: in terms of So I was reading those kinds of

2113
01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:10,720
Speaker 8: comics growing up, but I wasn't really And my mom

2114
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:13,520
Speaker 8: grew up reading comics. She bought comics a lot of

2115
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:16,280
Speaker 8: DC comics while she was a kid in Barkista, so

2116
01:59:16,840 --> 01:59:18,880
Speaker 8: that was part of her universe as well. She kind

2117
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:21,040
Speaker 8: of saved up her pocket money and backs and go

2118
01:59:21,120 --> 01:59:23,720
Speaker 8: buy like the latest issues and stuff or often kind

2119
01:59:23,720 --> 01:59:25,840
Speaker 8: of old but whenever they came through and she would

2120
01:59:25,880 --> 01:59:26,240
Speaker 8: get them.

2121
01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:28,760
Speaker 5: But so comic books have kind of my mum's had

2122
01:59:28,760 --> 01:59:29,360
Speaker 5: a relationship with them.

2123
01:59:29,400 --> 01:59:31,760
Speaker 8: I've had my own relationship with them, and so it

2124
01:59:31,840 --> 01:59:33,680
Speaker 8: was always just part of the fabric of the stories

2125
01:59:33,680 --> 01:59:36,160
Speaker 8: I was consuming alongside I was like an indoor kids

2126
01:59:36,200 --> 01:59:38,880
Speaker 8: a lot of TV movies, books. That's really what raised

2127
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:41,040
Speaker 8: me I would say in a lot of waves to

2128
01:59:41,120 --> 01:59:44,600
Speaker 8: kind of fast forward to twenty fourteen in where I

2129
01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:46,440
Speaker 8: believe I was standing, you know, little comics and picked

2130
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:49,960
Speaker 8: up issue on to collect single issues.

2131
01:59:49,960 --> 01:59:52,560
Speaker 5: Back then, I just don't have the emotional energy anymore

2132
01:59:52,560 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 5: to collect reales.

2133
01:59:55,080 --> 01:59:58,160
Speaker 8: Back when I was a single issue collector, that's when

2134
01:59:58,160 --> 01:59:59,800
Speaker 8: I first picked up Miss Marvel and it was such

2135
01:59:59,800 --> 02:00:04,120
Speaker 8: a I think there's something very classic about what this

2136
02:00:04,160 --> 02:00:06,720
Speaker 8: comic book is, but also incredibly new. I think this

2137
02:00:06,840 --> 02:00:08,360
Speaker 8: kind of speaks to what you're saying in terms of

2138
02:00:08,360 --> 02:00:10,880
Speaker 8: its popularity and was so kind of beloved at the

2139
02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:15,440
Speaker 8: time especially and certainly now too. But also just the

2140
02:00:15,440 --> 02:00:18,800
Speaker 8: fabric of the artwork felt so rich, it felt so detailed.

2141
02:00:18,800 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 8: There's in jokes in the backgrounds, and that's yeah, it

2142
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:22,160
Speaker 8: was incredible.

2143
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:23,040
Speaker 5: There's so much.

2144
02:00:23,040 --> 02:00:25,040
Speaker 8: It was so and maybe it's now I'm I mean,

2145
02:00:25,080 --> 02:00:26,960
Speaker 8: now I'm as an adult diagnosed with ADHD. There's something

2146
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 8: so appealing about the level of sensory input giving you.

2147
02:00:30,920 --> 02:00:32,560
Speaker 8: And I was like, now I'm doing the math in

2148
02:00:32,600 --> 02:00:34,160
Speaker 8: real time with view. As I say that, I'm like, wait,

2149
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:36,640
Speaker 8: that does make a lot of sense. So there's something

2150
02:00:36,680 --> 02:00:39,000
Speaker 8: about that that was so just you just kind of

2151
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:41,520
Speaker 8: gravitate towards that kind book. And I think that's regardless

2152
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:44,120
Speaker 8: of who you are in terms of your background. Then

2153
02:00:44,160 --> 02:00:45,840
Speaker 8: you do add in that additional layer of like this

2154
02:00:45,880 --> 02:00:48,560
Speaker 8: is a Pakistani second generation immigrant character, and.

2155
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:49,920
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, that's me.

2156
02:00:50,280 --> 02:00:53,000
Speaker 8: And that's really that's a very visceral reaction as well

2157
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:55,000
Speaker 8: that I had when I first picked up those comics.

2158
02:00:55,000 --> 02:00:57,520
Speaker 8: So that was really my kind of That was a

2159
02:00:57,640 --> 02:01:00,520
Speaker 8: year before I was even a television writer or a

2160
02:01:00,520 --> 02:01:02,880
Speaker 8: TV and film, right, I should say so. Then kind

2161
02:01:02,880 --> 02:01:05,240
Speaker 8: of fast forward five years and I'm working in Marvel

2162
02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:07,440
Speaker 8: Studios on the Disney lot in l A. And I'm like,

2163
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:12,440
Speaker 8: what is my life and realizing that there's a potential

2164
02:01:12,480 --> 02:01:14,440
Speaker 8: for this show, that this might be something that they're

2165
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:16,200
Speaker 8: going to be doing, and kind of really putting myself

2166
02:01:16,240 --> 02:01:18,880
Speaker 8: forward and saying, you gotta, you gotta get me in

2167
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:20,680
Speaker 8: that room. You gotta you gotta put me in the

2168
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:22,760
Speaker 8: room with the people who are making those decisions, because

2169
02:01:22,800 --> 02:01:24,880
Speaker 8: I want to do this. I really, I feel like

2170
02:01:24,920 --> 02:01:27,400
Speaker 8: I've have so much love and respect for those comics

2171
02:01:27,440 --> 02:01:30,080
Speaker 8: and for this character, and I also know how to

2172
02:01:30,120 --> 02:01:32,640
Speaker 8: make television, so I want to do I want to

2173
02:01:32,640 --> 02:01:33,880
Speaker 8: be part of this process.

2174
02:01:34,720 --> 02:01:36,200
Speaker 5: That's pretty my origin story.

2175
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, and then that happened, and not

2176
02:01:38,640 --> 02:01:41,240
Speaker 2: only were you in the room, you were leading that

2177
02:01:41,320 --> 02:01:44,960
Speaker 2: room like yes, Marvel your you were guy. How did

2178
02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:46,720
Speaker 2: it feel to become the miss Marvel guy?

2179
02:01:46,840 --> 02:01:47,200
Speaker 5: Terrifying?

2180
02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:51,360
Speaker 8: Absolutely terrifying, A delight? It was, truly, it was truly wonderful.

2181
02:01:51,400 --> 02:01:53,920
Speaker 8: I think it's a I think once you're in kind

2182
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:56,520
Speaker 8: of I'm master sure, it becomes your life, like it

2183
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:58,640
Speaker 8: becomes your day to day life. And also I was

2184
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:02,000
Speaker 8: living in La I kind of moved there to work.

2185
02:02:02,040 --> 02:02:04,120
Speaker 8: I've moved there to work on the show that I'd

2186
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:07,480
Speaker 8: started working on two years before, which was the first

2187
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:08,880
Speaker 8: show I worked on in the US, which was for

2188
02:02:09,000 --> 02:02:09,800
Speaker 8: when He's in a funeral.

2189
02:02:09,800 --> 02:02:10,320
Speaker 1: And when I left.

2190
02:02:10,320 --> 02:02:12,120
Speaker 8: The reason I bring this up is when I went,

2191
02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:14,480
Speaker 8: it was kind of you've got You've been given this job.

2192
02:02:14,520 --> 02:02:16,240
Speaker 8: We've been giving this opportunity to go and kind of

2193
02:02:16,920 --> 02:02:19,480
Speaker 8: do like a build towards the dream that you have

2194
02:02:19,560 --> 02:02:20,840
Speaker 8: of making television and film.

2195
02:02:21,560 --> 02:02:22,200
Speaker 5: I'm going to go.

2196
02:02:22,280 --> 02:02:25,480
Speaker 8: But I also kind of uprooted myself like in this moment,

2197
02:02:25,840 --> 02:02:29,000
Speaker 8: so it weirdly felt I don't know, I'm not a

2198
02:02:29,000 --> 02:02:32,520
Speaker 8: big destiny person. But there's this weird like feeling of oh,

2199
02:02:32,560 --> 02:02:34,480
Speaker 8: this was why, this is why I did this, Like

2200
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:37,240
Speaker 8: this is what I was building towards, and it kind

2201
02:02:37,240 --> 02:02:38,600
Speaker 8: of you don't realize that until you're in it, and

2202
02:02:38,640 --> 02:02:40,640
Speaker 8: then suddenly you're like, wait, I'm doing this, and I

2203
02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:43,840
Speaker 8: think that I'm talking from a very personal perspective in

2204
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:46,240
Speaker 8: terms of my own experience of life.

2205
02:02:46,280 --> 02:02:47,960
Speaker 5: I guess yeah.

2206
02:02:47,960 --> 02:02:51,120
Speaker 8: I felt it felt like an answer to a question

2207
02:02:51,160 --> 02:02:54,000
Speaker 8: I was asking myself and I didn't even know I

2208
02:02:54,040 --> 02:02:54,400
Speaker 8: was asking.

2209
02:02:54,640 --> 02:02:55,920
Speaker 5: I don't know if that makes sense.

2210
02:02:56,000 --> 02:02:58,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it doesn't. I mean I was working in

2211
02:02:58,760 --> 02:03:01,000
Speaker 2: comic book shops and bars until I moved here, when

2212
02:03:01,040 --> 02:03:03,000
Speaker 2: I got to actually become a writer. And now I'm

2213
02:03:03,000 --> 02:03:07,160
Speaker 2: interviewing you, someone else who moved to America about one

2214
02:03:07,160 --> 02:03:08,880
Speaker 2: of my favorite comics that's now become one of my

2215
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:11,400
Speaker 2: favorite Marvel shows. There's a the world has a strange

2216
02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:15,480
Speaker 2: way of working, and so you speaking you what you

2217
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:19,640
Speaker 2: see is seeking you. Well, it's something you touched on

2218
02:03:19,720 --> 02:03:21,880
Speaker 2: about your mom's love of comics and your love. It

2219
02:03:21,960 --> 02:03:23,520
Speaker 2: kind of speaks to one of the things that me

2220
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:26,560
Speaker 2: and Jason and the whole crew here just loved about

2221
02:03:26,560 --> 02:03:31,600
Speaker 2: Miss Marvel, which was this this intergenerational hero's journey of

2222
02:03:31,640 --> 02:03:35,160
Speaker 2: finding connection between these these women in this family. So

2223
02:03:35,160 --> 02:03:38,080
Speaker 2: could you talk a little bit about building that in

2224
02:03:38,280 --> 02:03:40,600
Speaker 2: and why it was so important to Kamala's journey.

2225
02:03:40,680 --> 02:03:44,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, something that I think we're really hungering for this

2226
02:03:44,160 --> 02:03:47,360
Speaker 8: this idea that has her powers and I mean this

2227
02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:49,840
Speaker 8: beyond just the physical mantifestation of her powers. I mean

2228
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:52,480
Speaker 8: also the emotional kind of point that she has to

2229
02:03:52,480 --> 02:03:54,640
Speaker 8: get to in order to be able to build them

2230
02:03:55,080 --> 02:03:57,960
Speaker 8: are rooted in the four generations of women, and her

2231
02:03:57,960 --> 02:04:00,360
Speaker 8: superpower is that she's not just by us else.

2232
02:04:00,240 --> 02:04:01,840
Speaker 5: She's with all of these women.

2233
02:04:02,200 --> 02:04:04,480
Speaker 8: And I think that felt so clear to us, Like

2234
02:04:04,640 --> 02:04:05,960
Speaker 8: as the more we talked about what we wanted to

2235
02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:07,240
Speaker 8: do with the show and the fact that we're kind

2236
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:10,520
Speaker 8: of breaking a television show that's going to set her

2237
02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:13,000
Speaker 8: up to be match ready for whatever's going to happen

2238
02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:15,040
Speaker 8: to her. Now it's a different arc. It's a very

2239
02:04:15,080 --> 02:04:18,040
Speaker 8: specific journey she has to go on. And what felt

2240
02:04:18,040 --> 02:04:23,120
Speaker 8: important to us was not this narrative narrative about who

2241
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:26,480
Speaker 8: are my versus the world that's going to marginalize me?

2242
02:04:26,560 --> 02:04:28,680
Speaker 8: That that wasn't the focus of it. It was really

2243
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:31,000
Speaker 8: in the US versus them of it all.

2244
02:04:31,320 --> 02:04:32,360
Speaker 5: What does us mean? Like?

2245
02:04:32,440 --> 02:04:34,400
Speaker 8: What do I look at when I say with us?

2246
02:04:34,440 --> 02:04:36,960
Speaker 8: And what is that really? What are the conversations that

2247
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:38,880
Speaker 8: I have not had in my own home that I

2248
02:04:38,960 --> 02:04:40,880
Speaker 8: wish i'd had, or that from the other writers in

2249
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:43,000
Speaker 8: the rooms who are from a similar background. One of

2250
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:44,720
Speaker 8: the things that we're scared to touch, that are scared

2251
02:04:44,760 --> 02:04:47,200
Speaker 8: to look at, that feel too painful, that feel too

2252
02:04:47,280 --> 02:04:49,000
Speaker 8: much or too big, and that, oh my god, I

2253
02:04:49,040 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 8: wish that we could have had that kind of healing

2254
02:04:51,360 --> 02:04:54,320
Speaker 8: journey for ourselves. And yeah, I felt really I felt

2255
02:04:54,360 --> 02:04:56,240
Speaker 8: I can't say this for everybody, but I felt really scared.

2256
02:04:56,280 --> 02:04:57,960
Speaker 8: I was like, I'm scared that we're going down this

2257
02:04:58,040 --> 02:05:00,040
Speaker 8: road and I'm really open with the team.

2258
02:04:59,920 --> 02:05:02,240
Speaker 5: Is I was like the team of being the writers.

2259
02:05:03,680 --> 02:05:06,600
Speaker 8: And for me, often the thing happens I feel scared

2260
02:05:06,600 --> 02:05:08,200
Speaker 8: about something, I'm like, Okay, I guess that means I

2261
02:05:08,240 --> 02:05:08,800
Speaker 8: have to do it.

2262
02:05:09,080 --> 02:05:13,040
Speaker 2: So your body, your mind's telling me this is the

2263
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:13,480
Speaker 2: right way.

2264
02:05:13,560 --> 02:05:16,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is the thing you Bobby, But no, I

2265
02:05:16,240 --> 02:05:18,920
Speaker 8: think so that intergenerational piece was so important to us

2266
02:05:18,960 --> 02:05:20,960
Speaker 8: and the way it was meeted out and kind of

2267
02:05:21,000 --> 02:05:24,400
Speaker 8: set up across the show is kind of beyond kind

2268
02:05:24,400 --> 02:05:27,040
Speaker 8: of breaking the emotional arc and then informationally, how we're

2269
02:05:27,040 --> 02:05:28,600
Speaker 8: going to get the audience on board of this too

2270
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:31,560
Speaker 8: was that we're experiencing it all through Kamala's perspective, and

2271
02:05:31,600 --> 02:05:34,240
Speaker 8: that was all really really important throughout the construction of

2272
02:05:34,480 --> 02:05:37,080
Speaker 8: every element of this was that everything we're experiencing, we're

2273
02:05:37,080 --> 02:05:39,880
Speaker 8: seeing it through Kamala's eyes, and we're seeing her internal world,

2274
02:05:39,960 --> 02:05:42,400
Speaker 8: her psychology. Literally in the environment around her, you could

2275
02:05:42,400 --> 02:05:44,400
Speaker 8: see it. And that was so I was so with

2276
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:46,880
Speaker 8: this character, and that's the only way we could get

2277
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:48,760
Speaker 8: away with the information that we need to share because

2278
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:51,839
Speaker 8: she's learning in real time too. She's hearing these stories,

2279
02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:54,640
Speaker 8: snippets of them, things that she doesn't fully understand. She's

2280
02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:56,480
Speaker 8: seeing the impact on her mother. Her mother doesn't want

2281
02:05:56,480 --> 02:05:59,040
Speaker 8: to speak about Aisha. She's then going in another more

2282
02:05:59,040 --> 02:06:02,520
Speaker 8: information her mother's son. She's got a different way of

2283
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:04,680
Speaker 8: dealing with this trauma that's kind of affected all of them,

2284
02:06:04,720 --> 02:06:07,080
Speaker 8: and that she's so expressive about it, she's doing artwork

2285
02:06:07,120 --> 02:06:09,320
Speaker 8: about it, she's spoken about it so much that it's

2286
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:13,520
Speaker 8: her own daughter. So she Kamala is going back to

2287
02:06:13,560 --> 02:06:17,320
Speaker 8: these generations before she's even going literally back, she's emotionally

2288
02:06:17,320 --> 02:06:20,400
Speaker 8: going back to these generations and learning about this in

2289
02:06:20,440 --> 02:06:21,880
Speaker 8: real time just as the audience is.

2290
02:06:21,960 --> 02:06:23,680
Speaker 5: So I like how that played out.

2291
02:06:24,440 --> 02:06:28,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was wonderful. Another thing I absolutely

2292
02:06:28,280 --> 02:06:31,600
Speaker 2: loved about it was the end game of it was

2293
02:06:31,720 --> 02:06:37,080
Speaker 2: acceptance and support. And also then you know Manieba becoming

2294
02:06:37,080 --> 02:06:40,520
Speaker 2: a co conspirator in Miss Marvel's journey. That to me

2295
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:43,040
Speaker 2: to see them be proud and it not be a

2296
02:06:43,040 --> 02:06:45,920
Speaker 2: place of conflict or a secret identity or a lie

2297
02:06:45,960 --> 02:06:47,880
Speaker 2: that has to be held, that tears a part of

2298
02:06:47,960 --> 02:06:50,560
Speaker 2: family that was very powerful and something I think is

2299
02:06:50,560 --> 02:06:52,680
Speaker 2: missing in a lot of superhero I think it's.

2300
02:06:52,600 --> 02:06:54,800
Speaker 8: What makes her unique, right, is that her family they

2301
02:06:54,840 --> 02:06:57,200
Speaker 8: are with her, Like that felt the important to us

2302
02:06:57,200 --> 02:06:59,200
Speaker 8: as like, that's what makes her unique in the MCU,

2303
02:06:59,240 --> 02:07:02,839
Speaker 8: in the cinematic, and it's also she's literally wearing symbols

2304
02:07:02,840 --> 02:07:05,160
Speaker 8: of their love as she goes out to be a superhero.

2305
02:07:05,240 --> 02:07:07,400
Speaker 8: Every single kind of family she's got from Bruno who's

2306
02:07:07,400 --> 02:07:10,280
Speaker 8: a kind of family too, to the Red Daggers who

2307
02:07:10,280 --> 02:07:11,800
Speaker 8: are part of her history in her family as well.

2308
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:14,120
Speaker 8: So she's literally wearing that on her every day and

2309
02:07:14,160 --> 02:07:17,440
Speaker 8: whatever she's doing going forward, although symbols exist and they're

2310
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:20,080
Speaker 8: there now for good and we're so excited about the

2311
02:07:20,080 --> 02:07:22,600
Speaker 8: fact that she's literally wearing the fabric of like the

2312
02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:24,640
Speaker 8: love of the people around her as she goes into

2313
02:07:24,640 --> 02:07:27,560
Speaker 8: whatever adventures are next. And that was so satisfying to

2314
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:29,440
Speaker 8: be able to land it. And you're exactly right that

2315
02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:33,840
Speaker 8: the bearing witness to other people's the people in our

2316
02:07:33,840 --> 02:07:36,240
Speaker 8: family's truth, whether we can fully understand it, whether we

2317
02:07:36,280 --> 02:07:39,800
Speaker 8: can have been there, but we just being able to

2318
02:07:39,840 --> 02:07:43,920
Speaker 8: and I mean literally, her powers are about our physical manifestations,

2319
02:07:43,960 --> 02:07:46,560
Speaker 8: like hard light, like she's shining light and truth, Like

2320
02:07:46,600 --> 02:07:50,160
Speaker 8: that's clearly what's happening in that episode. And there's something

2321
02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:53,160
Speaker 8: about that that felt so important. It felt like, if

2322
02:07:53,160 --> 02:07:55,120
Speaker 8: we're going to go to something that's the dark as

2323
02:07:55,120 --> 02:07:57,800
Speaker 8: what happen in partitions, so complicated and violent and horrific,

2324
02:07:58,440 --> 02:08:02,640
Speaker 8: it has to kind of be from a place of understanding.

2325
02:08:02,680 --> 02:08:04,240
Speaker 8: It has to be from a place of compassion, It

2326
02:08:04,280 --> 02:08:06,760
Speaker 8: has to be from a place of She's learning about

2327
02:08:07,240 --> 02:08:10,760
Speaker 8: how to look in that episode, and then she immediate

2328
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:14,200
Speaker 8: applies it, she sees it. She then has empathy for

2329
02:08:14,280 --> 02:08:16,960
Speaker 8: natural when she comes back moments later, yeah, she her

2330
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:19,440
Speaker 8: first tactic with Gman is to talk him down, like

2331
02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:21,880
Speaker 8: she wants to talk to him. When she encompasses him,

2332
02:08:21,920 --> 02:08:23,800
Speaker 8: she wants to talk to him, and she's her first

2333
02:08:23,880 --> 02:08:25,880
Speaker 8: instinct is always hang, can we like talk about how

2334
02:08:25,880 --> 02:08:26,600
Speaker 8: you're feeling right now?

2335
02:08:26,600 --> 02:08:28,760
Speaker 5: Because I'm happy to be a witness to it.

2336
02:08:29,560 --> 02:08:32,200
Speaker 8: So her power is always defensive, but her ultimate power,

2337
02:08:32,240 --> 02:08:34,440
Speaker 8: who she is, is her ultimate power, and I think

2338
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:36,440
Speaker 8: that's more maturing over the course of the show.

2339
02:08:36,920 --> 02:08:38,880
Speaker 2: I love that, and like to speak a little bit

2340
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:41,960
Speaker 2: to the Partition arc some. I love the quote that

2341
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:43,400
Speaker 2: you gave. I think it was in and into You

2342
02:08:43,520 --> 02:08:46,920
Speaker 2: to Variety where you talked about canonizing partition in as

2343
02:08:47,000 --> 02:08:49,040
Speaker 2: part of history in the MCU, like the World War

2344
02:08:49,040 --> 02:08:51,000
Speaker 2: two exists here? Why can't sound so could you talk

2345
02:08:51,080 --> 02:08:54,040
Speaker 2: a little bit? You did it? Their whole quote is

2346
02:08:54,080 --> 02:08:58,840
Speaker 2: incredibly smart and like slipping like, oh, this one's really good.

2347
02:08:59,040 --> 02:09:01,840
Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about building in partition. And also

2348
02:09:02,560 --> 02:09:04,480
Speaker 2: I loved the reading list you guys made. I thought

2349
02:09:04,520 --> 02:09:07,320
Speaker 2: that was such a brilliant asset to kind of expand

2350
02:09:07,360 --> 02:09:08,920
Speaker 2: the story of the show.

2351
02:09:09,280 --> 02:09:13,120
Speaker 8: I think kind of building the honestly, the torture of

2352
02:09:13,120 --> 02:09:15,520
Speaker 8: the past six weeks has been not being able to

2353
02:09:15,520 --> 02:09:18,240
Speaker 8: talk about everything. So it's really exciting that I finally

2354
02:09:18,240 --> 02:09:20,600
Speaker 8: get to say all because I remember even early Doors

2355
02:09:20,640 --> 02:09:22,680
Speaker 8: when we just mentioned a partition around the dinner table,

2356
02:09:23,200 --> 02:09:25,080
Speaker 8: and there's some of the responses on especially if we

2357
02:09:25,120 --> 02:09:27,960
Speaker 8: were affected by partition, was like, I can't believe that

2358
02:09:27,960 --> 02:09:30,720
Speaker 8: we're even hearing the word partition in a Marvel show.

2359
02:09:30,760 --> 02:09:34,240
Speaker 5: And I was like, just you wait, buddy, wait.

2360
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:38,640
Speaker 8: That was kind of hard for us because we were

2361
02:09:38,640 --> 02:09:42,360
Speaker 8: like it kind of was gratifying as we went along

2362
02:09:42,360 --> 02:09:44,080
Speaker 8: to be like, okay, yeah, we did, we were right,

2363
02:09:44,120 --> 02:09:45,480
Speaker 8: this is good, this is the plan.

2364
02:09:45,560 --> 02:09:47,040
Speaker 5: This is our.

2365
02:09:47,120 --> 02:09:49,680
Speaker 8: Sharing of what was hurting us and what we wish

2366
02:09:49,760 --> 02:09:52,480
Speaker 8: we could addressed in some way. There was a value

2367
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:54,160
Speaker 8: to it because we were seeing in real time other

2368
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,240
Speaker 8: people so experiencing that, and that was very gratifying for

2369
02:09:57,280 --> 02:09:59,960
Speaker 8: us to watch. But in terms of how we handled,

2370
02:10:00,040 --> 02:10:03,920
Speaker 8: our approach was never to we had to simplify in

2371
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:07,760
Speaker 8: terms of expressing what happened. But let's be clear, it's

2372
02:10:07,800 --> 02:10:11,280
Speaker 8: so complicated. It's so complex. Yeah, and it's also much

2373
02:10:11,320 --> 02:10:14,120
Speaker 8: more violent than what we portrayed in our show. But

2374
02:10:14,360 --> 02:10:17,400
Speaker 8: there was no way for us to encapsulate the full

2375
02:10:17,480 --> 02:10:19,800
Speaker 8: violence of it. We bring it up in audio, we

2376
02:10:20,040 --> 02:10:22,240
Speaker 8: describe it, and then the violence that we see in

2377
02:10:22,280 --> 02:10:25,200
Speaker 8: the show, like the naketid is between our characters that

2378
02:10:25,240 --> 02:10:28,040
Speaker 8: we put into this situation, so it's between Najma and Naisha,

2379
02:10:28,320 --> 02:10:31,480
Speaker 8: and if hopefully there's some element of just the grief

2380
02:10:31,520 --> 02:10:34,080
Speaker 8: of that moment in terms of our storytelling, might reflect

2381
02:10:34,160 --> 02:10:37,080
Speaker 8: some of the grief of some of the pain of this,

2382
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:39,360
Speaker 8: like an echo of what the actual.

2383
02:10:38,960 --> 02:10:39,680
Speaker 5: Pain of this is.

2384
02:10:39,920 --> 02:10:41,240
Speaker 8: But that was the only piece of violence that we

2385
02:10:41,280 --> 02:10:42,920
Speaker 8: wanted to put in, and we wanted to be very

2386
02:10:42,960 --> 02:10:45,640
Speaker 8: mindful of how we handled actually portraying it on screen.

2387
02:10:45,880 --> 02:10:47,760
Speaker 8: I think part of the kind of great thing we did,

2388
02:10:48,200 --> 02:10:50,520
Speaker 8: great thing that everyone did was that we had Charmine

2389
02:10:50,520 --> 02:10:52,960
Speaker 8: Obachinoi directing, so she spent so much of her life

2390
02:10:52,960 --> 02:10:57,240
Speaker 8: collecting stories from partition oral histories, and she really constructed

2391
02:10:57,280 --> 02:10:59,560
Speaker 8: that sequence at the end of episode four when kamalas

2392
02:10:59,600 --> 02:11:01,880
Speaker 8: on the train that one and she's hearing these different conversations.

2393
02:11:02,040 --> 02:11:04,440
Speaker 5: Those are real conversations that she's collected from. Wow.

2394
02:11:04,680 --> 02:11:07,680
Speaker 8: And the shots that you're seeing the woman being carried

2395
02:11:07,680 --> 02:11:10,760
Speaker 8: by two men, the family embracing and leaving each other,

2396
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:13,040
Speaker 8: and the way that the trains look and people throwing

2397
02:11:13,080 --> 02:11:15,360
Speaker 8: their belongings up and being able to get on. Those

2398
02:11:15,360 --> 02:11:18,400
Speaker 8: are constructed from photographs from that time, so there was

2399
02:11:18,440 --> 02:11:21,440
Speaker 8: so much care. We all approached this with such reverence

2400
02:11:22,200 --> 02:11:25,080
Speaker 8: and with such respect for what happened, well respect to

2401
02:11:25,120 --> 02:11:25,760
Speaker 8: the way we're framing.

2402
02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:27,120
Speaker 5: But I think you understand what I'm getting at.

2403
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:29,320
Speaker 8: But yeah, that was really important to us, and I

2404
02:11:29,360 --> 02:11:31,280
Speaker 8: think I feel really grateful that we had Charmian on

2405
02:11:31,280 --> 02:11:33,240
Speaker 8: board to direct the Bakistan episodes.

2406
02:11:33,680 --> 02:11:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Something that else that I found that you guys

2407
02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:39,760
Speaker 2: dealt with that felt very radical and underseen. Is like

2408
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:42,960
Speaker 2: a lot of stories about powered people and specifically mutants,

2409
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:46,280
Speaker 2: which will become later and more prominent, are about this

2410
02:11:46,400 --> 02:11:49,560
Speaker 2: notion of like analogous oppression. So the X Men's like,

2411
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:51,960
Speaker 2: look at these people, they're being oppressed. But the first

2412
02:11:51,960 --> 02:11:54,240
Speaker 2: group of X Men are like white people, right, but

2413
02:11:54,280 --> 02:11:57,440
Speaker 2: they're being oppressed because of their powers. Something Miss Marvel does,

2414
02:11:57,880 --> 02:12:00,720
Speaker 2: especially by the time we get to the finale, it

2415
02:12:00,840 --> 02:12:06,040
Speaker 2: makes that oppression text. It's not just about a powered person.

2416
02:12:06,080 --> 02:12:08,919
Speaker 2: It's look at how this technique that is about finding

2417
02:12:09,000 --> 02:12:13,960
Speaker 2: powered people immediately becomes about over policing Muslims, over policing

2418
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:16,080
Speaker 2: brown people. I just thought that was really cool. So

2419
02:12:16,120 --> 02:12:18,800
Speaker 2: could you speak a little bit about the Department of

2420
02:12:18,840 --> 02:12:22,160
Speaker 2: Damage Control's role and the importance of reflecting that real

2421
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:26,480
Speaker 2: world oppression alongside sowing the seeds for oppression of powered people. Yeah.

2422
02:12:26,520 --> 02:12:29,000
Speaker 8: So, actually, I will say, to be completely honest, the

2423
02:12:29,080 --> 02:12:31,000
Speaker 8: idea of showing the seeds of oppression of a powered

2424
02:12:31,000 --> 02:12:33,920
Speaker 8: people as a blaster mudens was like not of interest

2425
02:12:34,080 --> 02:12:35,640
Speaker 8: to me, not in terms of like it wasn't interesting.

2426
02:12:35,960 --> 02:12:37,280
Speaker 5: I mean like it wasn't what.

2427
02:12:37,480 --> 02:12:39,000
Speaker 2: I was meant to be doing.

2428
02:12:39,040 --> 02:12:41,160
Speaker 8: We were like, this is what we're doing, which is

2429
02:12:41,440 --> 02:12:43,840
Speaker 8: very clear, not even an analogy to be frank, like

2430
02:12:43,880 --> 02:12:48,839
Speaker 8: we're stating it's True's I lie. And so that ourtport

2431
02:12:48,920 --> 02:12:50,760
Speaker 8: was always that, and it wasn't always Damage Control that

2432
02:12:50,920 --> 02:12:54,120
Speaker 8: was the oppressive force at different points we had written versions,

2433
02:12:54,120 --> 02:12:58,400
Speaker 8: but there was real people. Yeah, the agencieds and that

2434
02:12:58,520 --> 02:13:00,720
Speaker 8: kind of thing. And then as can of you kind

2435
02:13:00,720 --> 02:13:03,440
Speaker 8: of developed the shows that Marvel there's this kind of

2436
02:13:03,520 --> 02:13:06,160
Speaker 8: pushing for the interconnectivity and damage stol was such a

2437
02:13:06,160 --> 02:13:09,720
Speaker 8: good existing thing that we recognize elements of and that

2438
02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:12,200
Speaker 8: we could see an element of what their reaches, and

2439
02:13:12,240 --> 02:13:15,200
Speaker 8: we knew after a certain point in the kind of

2440
02:13:15,200 --> 02:13:18,440
Speaker 8: development process, we knew that they appear somewhere else. You've

2441
02:13:18,640 --> 02:13:21,120
Speaker 8: we've seen it in trailers for other shows, shall we say,

2442
02:13:21,360 --> 02:13:23,920
Speaker 8: So they exist and that's real in the MCU. So

2443
02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:26,560
Speaker 8: it's such another layer of like juicy, the connectivity and

2444
02:13:26,720 --> 02:13:30,200
Speaker 8: also our approach to that story. I think hinged on

2445
02:13:30,440 --> 02:13:32,840
Speaker 8: Diva going rogue because I don't know that we can

2446
02:13:32,840 --> 02:13:35,200
Speaker 8: paint all of damage control like we don't. I think

2447
02:13:35,200 --> 02:13:36,960
Speaker 8: as soon as we do that, we kind of limit

2448
02:13:37,160 --> 02:13:39,600
Speaker 8: possibilities for other storytelling and I didn't want to do

2449
02:13:39,600 --> 02:13:41,840
Speaker 8: that for other people, and certainly that's not helpful to

2450
02:13:41,880 --> 02:13:42,760
Speaker 8: the MCU as a whole.

2451
02:13:43,080 --> 02:13:47,760
Speaker 5: So, but Divas is doing the work of being that.

2452
02:13:47,720 --> 02:13:51,440
Speaker 8: Oppressive force that specifically targeting this community.

2453
02:13:51,120 --> 02:13:52,800
Speaker 5: And that she's like, she just held it on it.

2454
02:13:52,840 --> 02:13:53,760
Speaker 5: She's an evil lady.

2455
02:13:54,680 --> 02:13:57,520
Speaker 8: And I think that was always important to us, whether

2456
02:13:57,560 --> 02:13:59,480
Speaker 8: it was going to be through damage control or a

2457
02:13:59,480 --> 02:14:03,880
Speaker 8: different kind of government agency or a pressure source that

2458
02:14:04,040 --> 02:14:06,000
Speaker 8: was built in from the start of like, well, what

2459
02:14:06,160 --> 02:14:09,960
Speaker 8: happens when someone who's a young brown becomes hyper visible?

2460
02:14:10,040 --> 02:14:12,360
Speaker 8: How do you get treated? Because it isn't how it

2461
02:14:12,440 --> 02:14:14,680
Speaker 8: would be for anybody else. It won't be how it

2462
02:14:14,720 --> 02:14:18,800
Speaker 8: is for Spidey well completely for different reasons. It'll be

2463
02:14:18,800 --> 02:14:22,240
Speaker 8: a different approach, and it won't be how it is

2464
02:14:22,280 --> 02:14:26,800
Speaker 8: for Captain Marvel in terms of So that's also part

2465
02:14:26,800 --> 02:14:29,960
Speaker 8: of the reality check for Kamala, right, So when control

2466
02:14:30,040 --> 02:14:33,560
Speaker 8: when Divas first comes into the Mustard and Nakia so

2467
02:14:33,880 --> 02:14:36,320
Speaker 8: like frustrated by it, and also Knai gets explained to

2468
02:14:36,320 --> 02:14:37,680
Speaker 8: some of the audience who might not be picking up

2469
02:14:37,680 --> 02:14:40,400
Speaker 8: on what we're doing in Kamala's bedroom, we're seeing that,

2470
02:14:40,680 --> 02:14:42,920
Speaker 8: oh so being even though I'm good and I want

2471
02:14:42,960 --> 02:14:43,960
Speaker 8: to do good things and I want to be a

2472
02:14:44,000 --> 02:14:46,880
Speaker 8: superhero for us, the impact of me existing, which is

2473
02:14:46,920 --> 02:14:48,880
Speaker 8: out of my control, the fact that I exist in

2474
02:14:48,880 --> 02:14:51,480
Speaker 8: the body that I was born into, forget with powers,

2475
02:14:51,840 --> 02:14:54,360
Speaker 8: is going to affect people's perception. And that's just the

2476
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:56,840
Speaker 8: reality that Muslims and brown people have to live with.

2477
02:14:57,360 --> 02:14:58,840
Speaker 8: And so how do we talk about that in a

2478
02:14:58,840 --> 02:15:01,040
Speaker 8: way that feels meaningful in the And I think we

2479
02:15:01,080 --> 02:15:03,800
Speaker 8: came to the meaning to answer for us if you

2480
02:15:03,880 --> 02:15:06,920
Speaker 8: got to have each other's back, square community build together.

2481
02:15:07,200 --> 02:15:10,000
Speaker 2: And I think that was just so powerful and kind

2482
02:15:10,040 --> 02:15:12,280
Speaker 2: of like so something that I thought was really interesting

2483
02:15:12,400 --> 02:15:17,720
Speaker 2: was son Armanat gave an interview to about how in

2484
02:15:17,760 --> 02:15:20,000
Speaker 2: the comics Kamala was always meant to be a mutant,

2485
02:15:20,080 --> 02:15:23,000
Speaker 2: which was actually something that a lot of fans had

2486
02:15:23,240 --> 02:15:27,440
Speaker 2: assumed during the publishing time. So I was kind of wondering,

2487
02:15:27,440 --> 02:15:29,600
Speaker 2: how does it feel for you. I can imagine how

2488
02:15:29,640 --> 02:15:32,920
Speaker 2: much this has changed and how that moment came about.

2489
02:15:33,000 --> 02:15:35,520
Speaker 2: Is not something that's particularly like out there to talk about,

2490
02:15:35,600 --> 02:15:37,920
Speaker 2: but how did it feel to you to be able

2491
02:15:37,960 --> 02:15:41,120
Speaker 2: to reveal that Kamala has a mutation and is back

2492
02:15:41,160 --> 02:15:44,240
Speaker 2: in that space yah as she was originally envisioned.

2493
02:15:44,320 --> 02:15:48,280
Speaker 8: I think it's interesting from a NERD pov, like, holy shit,

2494
02:15:49,080 --> 02:15:52,520
Speaker 8: so exciting, right, Yeah, completely. I was having a meltdown,

2495
02:15:52,680 --> 02:15:55,040
Speaker 8: especially when you like the way it's done in the show,

2496
02:15:55,080 --> 02:15:57,960
Speaker 8: because that was that music here was Laura Common and

2497
02:15:57,960 --> 02:16:01,000
Speaker 8: so very cleverly. The fact that we got to play

2498
02:16:01,000 --> 02:16:06,320
Speaker 8: that sound like I the the X Men theme from

2499
02:16:06,360 --> 02:16:09,760
Speaker 8: the from the show I can't tell you, Like I'm

2500
02:16:09,800 --> 02:16:11,960
Speaker 8: not even talking about my time working at Marvel, I'm

2501
02:16:11,960 --> 02:16:15,160
Speaker 8: talking about before like that yeah song, I like scream

2502
02:16:15,240 --> 02:16:19,280
Speaker 8: out loud like for fun, like it's something I think, Yeah, exactly,

2503
02:16:19,280 --> 02:16:21,160
Speaker 8: in it. So the fact that it's in this and

2504
02:16:21,200 --> 02:16:25,920
Speaker 8: the fact that we're introducing this huge, exciting new part

2505
02:16:25,960 --> 02:16:29,640
Speaker 8: of the MCU in this kind of actually softest wave

2506
02:16:29,720 --> 02:16:32,280
Speaker 8: which is kind of Malaiest.

2507
02:16:31,640 --> 02:16:34,480
Speaker 2: Way to do this is with her quip as well.

2508
02:16:34,520 --> 02:16:37,080
Speaker 2: It's just another label. Yeah, I thought that was so

2509
02:16:37,280 --> 02:16:40,119
Speaker 2: good and it sets up so much and then obviously

2510
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:42,560
Speaker 2: you get to have immediately after that, which I could

2511
02:16:42,560 --> 02:16:46,680
Speaker 2: not believe. We get this huge moment which goes back

2512
02:16:46,720 --> 02:16:49,760
Speaker 2: to some classic Captain Marvel law with potentially the bangle

2513
02:16:49,800 --> 02:16:53,320
Speaker 2: being similar to the Mega bands and kamalare disappearing. You're

2514
02:16:53,400 --> 02:16:55,880
Speaker 2: zipping your lips of course, and Carol's. But how much

2515
02:16:55,879 --> 02:16:59,920
Speaker 2: fun was it to establish this connection with Carol on

2516
02:17:00,000 --> 02:17:02,560
Speaker 2: Tamala that we've never seen in that final moment that

2517
02:17:02,640 --> 02:17:04,360
Speaker 2: for me, like I didn't write that scene that kind

2518
02:17:04,360 --> 02:17:07,040
Speaker 2: of got put in in the in the endgame, that endgame,

2519
02:17:07,080 --> 02:17:09,160
Speaker 2: in the later or later down the line, because I

2520
02:17:09,200 --> 02:17:11,080
Speaker 2: think also you've got to be in mind these shows,

2521
02:17:11,160 --> 02:17:14,039
Speaker 2: like the schedule of when they're going out is changing

2522
02:17:14,040 --> 02:17:16,120
Speaker 2: all the time, like what exists, what doesn't exist, what's

2523
02:17:16,120 --> 02:17:18,040
Speaker 2: in the public knowledge, what is it? So all of

2524
02:17:18,120 --> 02:17:20,280
Speaker 2: that's those charrapies off in a moving part. But to

2525
02:17:20,280 --> 02:17:23,000
Speaker 2: see all together and to see that scene and now

2526
02:17:23,000 --> 02:17:25,360
Speaker 2: that I kind of know some elements of what's going

2527
02:17:25,400 --> 02:17:27,160
Speaker 2: to come, it's Yeah, it's exciting.

2528
02:17:27,200 --> 02:17:28,800
Speaker 5: It's really exciting. It's thrilling.

2529
02:17:29,000 --> 02:17:31,080
Speaker 2: It must have been really fun. And how do you

2530
02:17:31,280 --> 02:17:33,840
Speaker 2: feel now that your whole baby is out there? This

2531
02:17:33,959 --> 02:17:36,600
Speaker 2: is not people reacting to one episode anymore as it

2532
02:17:36,640 --> 02:17:39,000
Speaker 2: comes out. This is the whole show is out there

2533
02:17:39,040 --> 02:17:40,680
Speaker 2: as it exists. How does it feel to you? And

2534
02:17:40,720 --> 02:17:42,640
Speaker 2: how does it feel to see how much it means

2535
02:17:42,680 --> 02:17:43,080
Speaker 2: to people?

2536
02:17:43,760 --> 02:17:46,640
Speaker 5: I think about the how much it means to people. Yeah,

2537
02:17:46,680 --> 02:17:47,520
Speaker 5: it's hard, I think it.

2538
02:17:47,640 --> 02:17:49,880
Speaker 8: No, I think the in the Internet age, I don't

2539
02:17:49,879 --> 02:17:53,400
Speaker 8: know that any human brain is capable of computing like

2540
02:17:53,440 --> 02:17:55,880
Speaker 8: the amount of scene back like, I don't know that's

2541
02:17:56,000 --> 02:18:00,440
Speaker 8: natural like a human like our computer good bad. So

2542
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:04,080
Speaker 8: that's something that I find hard. Also, I mean, I've

2543
02:18:04,080 --> 02:18:06,439
Speaker 8: got my own stuff to deal with my brain. But

2544
02:18:05,840 --> 02:18:09,400
Speaker 8: the it's bizarre. It's a really bizarre feeling.

2545
02:18:09,640 --> 02:18:09,960
Speaker 2: I think.

2546
02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:12,600
Speaker 5: I also feel just really tired, isn't it like.

2547
02:18:14,440 --> 02:18:18,160
Speaker 2: Putting out a show in the global pandemic about partition,

2548
02:18:18,440 --> 02:18:22,760
Speaker 2: about the first Muslim female teenage I mean, that's tiring

2549
02:18:22,800 --> 02:18:23,039
Speaker 2: a lot.

2550
02:18:23,320 --> 02:18:24,160
Speaker 5: It's a lot of stuff.

2551
02:18:24,200 --> 02:18:26,280
Speaker 8: I think also, you know, if I can kind of

2552
02:18:26,760 --> 02:18:29,000
Speaker 8: put the empty of it down for a second, But like,

2553
02:18:29,400 --> 02:18:31,400
Speaker 8: it took a lot of bravery on the part of

2554
02:18:31,440 --> 02:18:33,920
Speaker 8: the writers. It took a lot of vulnerability and trusting

2555
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:37,039
Speaker 8: each other to go where we went. And there's no

2556
02:18:37,160 --> 02:18:40,800
Speaker 8: response negative or positive that can kind of validate or

2557
02:18:41,280 --> 02:18:43,120
Speaker 8: I don't know, there's nothing that's going to kind of

2558
02:18:43,440 --> 02:18:45,640
Speaker 8: cushion that. But I feel like when the show was

2559
02:18:45,680 --> 02:18:47,360
Speaker 8: coming out, I think we all, Yeah, I can't speak

2560
02:18:47,360 --> 02:18:48,680
Speaker 8: for the other writers, but I know I said it

2561
02:18:48,680 --> 02:18:53,600
Speaker 8: was feeling really vulnerable, and that's any art, putting any

2562
02:18:53,600 --> 02:18:55,240
Speaker 8: out into the world that you've been part of, is that.

2563
02:18:55,480 --> 02:18:58,120
Speaker 8: But I think that element in particular because I think, yeah,

2564
02:18:58,120 --> 02:19:00,480
Speaker 8: it's just a really tender place to go, and I

2565
02:19:00,560 --> 02:19:02,200
Speaker 8: mean to tend in a gentle word, I also mean

2566
02:19:02,280 --> 02:19:03,480
Speaker 8: like a tender wound.

2567
02:19:04,000 --> 02:19:06,560
Speaker 5: So that's that was an interesting experience.

2568
02:19:06,560 --> 02:19:08,080
Speaker 8: I've learned a lot from that experience, a lot about

2569
02:19:08,240 --> 02:19:10,879
Speaker 8: putting yourself out there and kind of just chasing the

2570
02:19:10,920 --> 02:19:13,440
Speaker 8: thing that scares you. But it feels weird and good

2571
02:19:13,480 --> 02:19:18,000
Speaker 8: and great and yay.

2572
02:19:18,520 --> 02:19:20,680
Speaker 2: I love that weird and good and great and yay,

2573
02:19:21,120 --> 02:19:23,360
Speaker 2: that's so brilliant. I could literally talk to you about

2574
02:19:23,360 --> 02:19:26,039
Speaker 2: this all day, but I appreciate you taking this time

2575
02:19:26,120 --> 02:19:28,120
Speaker 2: out so that we could have this chat. It's so

2576
02:19:28,240 --> 02:19:32,600
Speaker 2: wonderful to meet you. And and like, where can people

2577
02:19:32,680 --> 02:19:34,400
Speaker 2: find you if they want to follow more of your

2578
02:19:34,400 --> 02:19:36,199
Speaker 2: work or see more stuff that you've done.

2579
02:19:36,400 --> 02:19:38,360
Speaker 5: I didn't know, man, Internet, Like.

2580
02:19:39,240 --> 02:19:43,160
Speaker 8: I'm quite enjoying hiding in a hole and kind of

2581
02:19:43,200 --> 02:19:45,279
Speaker 8: I'll just retreat some stuff and then disappear.

2582
02:19:45,400 --> 02:19:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, just watch ms Marvel, just watch them support Bisher.

2583
02:19:49,240 --> 02:19:51,200
Speaker 5: You're Rosie. I appreciate it.

2584
02:19:51,560 --> 02:20:01,840
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Bisher Up Next nerd Out, Today's

2585
02:20:01,840 --> 02:20:03,440
Speaker 1: nerd Out, where you tell us what you love and why.

2586
02:20:03,560 --> 02:20:06,360
Speaker 1: Francis pitches on Rue Paul's Drag Race.

2587
02:20:06,680 --> 02:20:09,200
Speaker 2: What's up? X ray Vision Pod? It's Francis.

2588
02:20:09,560 --> 02:20:11,440
Speaker 9: The first half of my year has been a d

2589
02:20:13,280 --> 02:20:17,200
Speaker 9: dive into RuPaul's Drag Race. No really, I've watched thirteen

2590
02:20:17,240 --> 02:20:20,680
Speaker 9: of the fourteen original seasons, six and a half All

2591
02:20:20,720 --> 02:20:25,400
Speaker 9: Stars seasons, the UK seasons including UK versus the World,

2592
02:20:25,840 --> 02:20:30,400
Speaker 9: Canada seasons and Down End Up, and a few podcasts,

2593
02:20:30,480 --> 02:20:32,720
Speaker 9: web series and music by some of my favorite queens

2594
02:20:32,720 --> 02:20:35,039
Speaker 9: along the way. I knew i'd love it, but I

2595
02:20:35,080 --> 02:20:37,560
Speaker 9: didn't get into it until late January this year at

2596
02:20:37,560 --> 02:20:38,959
Speaker 9: the suggestion of a close friend.

2597
02:20:39,440 --> 02:20:41,240
Speaker 2: Well, everyone who told me i'd like.

2598
02:20:41,280 --> 02:20:45,000
Speaker 1: It, you were absolutely correct.

2599
02:20:45,600 --> 02:20:49,640
Speaker 9: With the recent LGBTQIA plus attacks by the right, especially

2600
02:20:49,640 --> 02:20:52,160
Speaker 9: here in my home state of Texas, I thought now

2601
02:20:52,280 --> 02:20:54,640
Speaker 9: was a great time to let X ray Vision Pod

2602
02:20:54,720 --> 02:20:59,160
Speaker 9: followers know that Drag Race absolutely lives up to the hype.

2603
02:20:59,520 --> 02:21:00,280
Speaker 5: As our ord and.

2604
02:21:00,320 --> 02:21:02,840
Speaker 9: Savior, ru Paul says, We're all born naked and the.

2605
02:21:02,800 --> 02:21:03,560
Speaker 2: Rest is drag.

2606
02:21:04,160 --> 02:21:07,360
Speaker 9: So while I highly doubt the Texas legislators will be

2607
02:21:07,400 --> 02:21:10,560
Speaker 9: able to legally define what a drag show is and

2608
02:21:10,680 --> 02:21:14,080
Speaker 9: pass laws preventing children from attending, I want to encourage

2609
02:21:14,080 --> 02:21:17,720
Speaker 9: everyone to give drag Race a chance. Personal favorite seasons

2610
02:21:18,200 --> 02:21:21,440
Speaker 9: are five, six, and seven of the original or All

2611
02:21:21,480 --> 02:21:24,720
Speaker 9: Stars two or seven, or at least find a local

2612
02:21:24,760 --> 02:21:28,520
Speaker 9: drag show and support these wonderful performers teaching everyone how

2613
02:21:28,520 --> 02:21:33,560
Speaker 9: to love ourselves by loving themselves on the Horizon. Canada's

2614
02:21:33,600 --> 02:21:36,080
Speaker 9: Drag Race Season three kicks off in mid July on

2615
02:21:36,160 --> 02:21:39,440
Speaker 9: While Presents Plus in the US, and a Queen of

2616
02:21:39,520 --> 02:21:43,360
Speaker 9: Queen's will soon be chosen on All Stars seven All

2617
02:21:43,400 --> 02:21:47,560
Speaker 9: Winners currently on Paramount Plus. And to quote Mama rou again,

2618
02:21:47,680 --> 02:21:49,720
Speaker 9: if you can't love yourself, how in the hell are

2619
02:21:49,720 --> 02:21:51,040
Speaker 9: you going to love somebody else?

2620
02:21:51,480 --> 02:21:54,720
Speaker 1: Can I get a name in? Thanks Francis for submitting.

2621
02:21:54,720 --> 02:21:56,600
Speaker 1: If you want to be featured and we want you

2622
02:21:56,720 --> 02:21:59,320
Speaker 1: to be featured, please send your nerd out pitch to

2623
02:21:59,520 --> 02:22:02,600
Speaker 1: x ray as croocket dot com instructions on how to

2624
02:22:02,640 --> 02:22:06,840
Speaker 1: do so or in the show notes. Folks, that's it

2625
02:22:07,000 --> 02:22:11,959
Speaker 1: for our supersized nineteen eighty two Summer Movie edition episode

2626
02:22:11,959 --> 02:22:14,680
Speaker 1: of x ray Vision. A big thank you to the

2627
02:22:14,760 --> 02:22:19,920
Speaker 1: number one comics computer Rosie Night. It's me, I am,

2628
02:22:19,959 --> 02:22:22,960
Speaker 1: and of course you're super and of course super producer

2629
02:22:23,000 --> 02:22:27,160
Speaker 1: Salt Rubbin for joining us on Extra Vision. Rosie plugs plugs, plugs,

2630
02:22:27,240 --> 02:22:27,840
Speaker 1: plug yourself.

2631
02:22:28,040 --> 02:22:30,240
Speaker 2: Yes, if you're at San Diego Comic Con and you

2632
02:22:30,280 --> 02:22:32,080
Speaker 2: listen to this before four pm, come and see me

2633
02:22:32,120 --> 02:22:34,840
Speaker 2: on that Godzilla panel, Room four. If you're at San

2634
02:22:34,879 --> 02:22:36,800
Speaker 2: Diego Comic Con and you don't see that, pick up

2635
02:22:36,840 --> 02:22:39,680
Speaker 2: my Den of Geek magazine. It's free. The Den of

2636
02:22:39,720 --> 02:22:41,960
Speaker 2: Geek team will be giving it out. Also, if you

2637
02:22:42,040 --> 02:22:44,240
Speaker 2: see me, feel free to say hello. I will probably

2638
02:22:44,240 --> 02:22:46,560
Speaker 2: have a zene on me. I'll be staying away from

2639
02:22:46,560 --> 02:22:48,200
Speaker 2: people in a safe manner, but if I am out

2640
02:22:48,200 --> 02:22:49,520
Speaker 2: and about, I will make sure I have a zene.

2641
02:22:49,520 --> 02:22:51,879
Speaker 2: I'm always happy to say hello. You can follow me

2642
02:22:52,360 --> 02:22:56,480
Speaker 2: Rosie Marks on Instagram and letterbox and obviously hear me

2643
02:22:56,560 --> 02:22:59,200
Speaker 2: here on Extra Vision with my brilliant co.

2644
02:22:59,200 --> 02:23:00,640
Speaker 1: Host, aah.

2645
02:23:04,440 --> 02:23:05,080
Speaker 2: Folks.

2646
02:23:05,440 --> 02:23:08,080
Speaker 1: Xtra Vision is a new home on YouTube. The Takeline

2647
02:23:08,160 --> 02:23:10,400
Speaker 1: channel has now dedicated all things x ray Vision and

2648
02:23:10,440 --> 02:23:12,920
Speaker 1: the Takeline Twitter pages now going to be dedicated to

2649
02:23:12,920 --> 02:23:14,800
Speaker 1: all things Extra Visions. So go check us out on

2650
02:23:14,959 --> 02:23:18,480
Speaker 1: XRV pod. We also have a discord.

2651
02:23:18,600 --> 02:23:19,680
Speaker 3: Come join the community.

2652
02:23:19,800 --> 02:23:22,400
Speaker 1: You can find our discord in the show notes. We're

2653
02:23:22,400 --> 02:23:25,959
Speaker 1: a comic con right now, so come check it out

2654
02:23:25,959 --> 02:23:30,200
Speaker 1: for some potential scoops and check out YouTube for reactions, recaps, primers,

2655
02:23:30,240 --> 02:23:32,800
Speaker 1: and more. Next week, we will be talking more about

2656
02:23:32,840 --> 02:23:35,360
Speaker 1: everything that happens at Comicon over the next few days.

2657
02:23:36,000 --> 02:23:41,959
Speaker 1: If we survive, don't forget five Stars. Every platform you

2658
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:44,000
Speaker 1: want to review us, it's got to be the five Stars.

2659
02:23:44,680 --> 02:23:46,520
Speaker 1: X Ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show

2660
02:23:46,560 --> 02:23:48,400
Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lord and Salrubin. The show is

2661
02:23:48,440 --> 02:23:51,360
Speaker 1: executive produced by myself and Sandy's rhad are editing and

2662
02:23:51,400 --> 02:23:55,320
Speaker 1: sound design. Who's By Facilli's Photopoulos, Dylon Villanueva and Matt

2663
02:23:55,360 --> 02:23:59,000
Speaker 1: Degroup provide video production support. Alex rella Ford handle social media.

2664
02:23:59,040 --> 02:24:09,880
Speaker 1: Thank you Brian Guys for theme music. Bye bye Hm