1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 2: Earlier this week, Mailman Vaughn called the show on the 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 2: Black Line, and Jim Mutter, our creative director, thought he 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: sounded like a black version of Civil War historian Shelby Foot. 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: We played clips of both men, and as it turns out, 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: Jim has a pretty keen ear, and we were all 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: we were all amazed at how astute his hearing was 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 2: to catch that audio. Some people also said he sounded 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: like Alan Tousson in the fourteen minute rendition of Southern Nights. 10 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 2: If you ever go to YouTube and look up Alan 11 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: tusson so Other Nights, the fourteen and he's behind a 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: piano and he tells you the story about how he 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: wrote that song that you know of as a Glenn 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: Camel song. Anyway, So we played audio of both of 15 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: these men, Mailman Vaughn on the Black Line and Civil 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: War historian Shelby Foot, who I love. We got a 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: lot of people out there in our listening audience who 18 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: really enjoyed Shelby Foot as well, and I heard from 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: so many of you. So we found an interview from 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three featuring Shelby Foot. This was about a 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: decade before he was on Ken Burns's PBS documentary Civil War, 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: which is when most people came to find out about him. 23 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: If you haven't seen the documentary, go find it. It 24 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 2: is a very very good watch. Anyway, here is that 25 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: interview with Shelby foot who I love enjoy. 26 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: Shelby Foote is the author of several novels set in 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: the South. He spent twenty years researching and writing a 28 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: three volume history of the Civil War and has now 29 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: returned to writing fiction. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 3: My great grandfather was from Making, Mississippi. His name is 31 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: Heze Kyle William Foot, and my grandfather was his youngest son. 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: He came to the Delta around eighteen seventy five something 33 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: like that, and I managed h three plantations down in 34 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 3: the Lake Washington region, Rolling Fork and the Lake Washington region. 35 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 3: My father was born on at Mounds Plantation down there 36 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: Rolling Fork Wastbury now and where I'll someday be buried. 37 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 3: But my grandfather's favorite of the places was a place 38 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: called Mount Holly on Lake Washington, there about twenty miles 39 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: or so south of Greenville, and that's where my father 40 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: grew up. I I doubt if my grandfather read five 41 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: books in his life or my grandmother for that manter. 42 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 3: But I they did have remarkable qualities. My grandmother, for instance, Uh, 43 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 3: that house at Mount Holly has thirty two rooms, and uh, 44 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 3: whatever her limitations were, uh, she certainly managed to run 45 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,399 Speaker 3: a thirty two room house, uh, which I would hate 46 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: to undertake uh had they had rather formidable abilities When 47 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 3: you look back on it, Tradition is one of the 48 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: things that a person deals with in his life. It's 49 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 3: one of the things that's found the interest or writer 50 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: in writing about the people who live with it. Uh. 51 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 3: Most often, I I suppose, certainly in my case, it's 52 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 3: the failure to measure up to the tradition that makes 53 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 3: the tragedy. Sometime that involves an examination of the tradition itself, 54 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: which you find out is false or inflated. Those those 55 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: are the things well worth writing about. Without that tradition, Uh, 56 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: you wouldn't have a skeleton to hang the meat on. 57 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 3: A That's true of a lot of things. I was 58 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: singularly fortunate in being present at an annoying almost tragedy 59 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: and injustice. The treatment of blacks as who were called 60 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: in those days was a dreadful thing to have happening, 61 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: But an absolutely invaluable thing to be in the middle 62 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 3: of when you're a writer. When they talk about American 63 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: ideals and the nobility of justice and all that, I 64 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: had to counteraction to that right present in front of 65 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 3: my eyes throughout my growing up years, and it was 66 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 3: a great value to that. That's one of the reasons 67 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 3: I believe that a writer who is also a Southerner 68 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 3: has a huge advantage. He doesn't have to be taught 69 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: about injustice. He sees it all around him. You have 70 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: memories out of your childhood and the things are not 71 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:48,239 Speaker 3: all bad. The Blacks in Greenville sometime in the middle 72 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 3: thirties had I've forgotten what the festival as they called 73 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 3: it was called. It was something like one hundred Years 74 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 3: of Progress or something, and the main speaker was George 75 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 3: Washington Carver, who came over from Tuskegee and spoke, and 76 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 3: it was a week long thing, and it was wonderful. 77 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 3: I was a newspaper put on the paper at home, 78 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: and it was a wonderful thing to be around. Doctor 79 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: Carver gave him unshirted hell. He said, I go into 80 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: houses where you can study botany through the floorboards and 81 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 3: astronomy through the roof, and there's a Buick automobile in 82 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 3: the driveway. He said, don't do that. Fix your house up, 83 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 3: don't get that Buick automobile. He was a wonderful old man, 84 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 3: one of the finest men I've ever known in my life. 85 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 3: It was a good place to grow up. It was 86 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 3: a splendid place to see all these different pushes and 87 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: pulls in a society that was badly torn, and yet 88 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 3: had erected such defenses against the tearing that it seemed 89 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: almost idyllic. You had to look below the surface to 90 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 3: see anything wrong with it. They were enormous wrongs just 91 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 3: immediately below the surface. But it had both of these things, 92 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: and it was a good place to grow up. I 93 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: was talking about Greenville having pretenses to be in Athens 94 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: of Mississippi. That was primarily due to Will Percy himself. 95 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: Certain influences went into making Will Percy what he was, 96 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: but he was the first true literary figure in that 97 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: part of the country. I I've often said, and I 98 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: believe firmly, that if Will Percy had been in Clarksdale 99 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 3: or Greenwood, it would have been Clarksdale or Greenwood that 100 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: turned out the writers instead of Greenville. It was not done, 101 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: and I've said this often, it was not done by 102 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: having a coterie of literary people. There was none of that. 103 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 3: There was no exchangeing of manuscripts, there was no intense 104 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: discussion of this and that and the other. It was 105 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 3: more by example, the example of being himself a cultured 106 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: man that you saw and talked with. It was his library, 107 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: which he prized high and would almost never lend the 108 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 3: book out. Uh. There was a h example as a 109 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 3: man who would talk to you, say, for thirty minutes 110 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 3: about the poetry of kids, and the effect on you 111 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 3: was to make you immediately want to run home and 112 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: read some kids. It was a childhood like any other. 113 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: I've always been glad that I didn't get interested in 114 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: literary matters until I was about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old, 115 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: so that I had uh all the normal experiences without 116 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: books keeping me from enjoying 'em. When I did turn 117 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,679 Speaker 3: to books at about seventeen, I was like a colt 118 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 3: in Clover. I was very happy with that. But I 119 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 3: had all this in the background, and it continued. The 120 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: main thing I did between the age of say sixteen 121 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: and twenty was read and go to dances, so I 122 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: m held on to the to the good part of it. 123 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: I had a good time at school. It was as 124 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: to the school paper, and I enjoyed that part of it. 125 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 4: I wanted to get you to talk a little bit 126 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 4: about your first becoming interested in in the Civil War, 127 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 4: reading it and researching it, and later writing about it. 128 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: I always enjoyed the reading of history in part because 129 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: you knew what you were reading was true, or at 130 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 3: least you had reason to believe it was true. Working 131 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: against that was the quality of the history as it's 132 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 3: taught in schools. It's like Shakespeare. The way it's taught 133 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 3: in schools is the one that anybody ever reads any more. 134 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 3: Shakespeare the rest of his life after being taught at 135 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 3: in high school. And so it was with history. They 136 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 3: made us memorized lists of dates and things like that, 137 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 3: things that they could examine us on later on, rather 138 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 3: than letting us see what history really is. I I 139 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: might almost remember the however many steps they were to 140 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: the Treaty of Utrek to this day, and I still 141 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 3: wouldn't know anything. But I I always enjoyed reading history, 142 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 3: particularly good history. One of the first books I read 143 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 3: that drew my attention strongly to the war was UH 144 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: Colonel Henderson's biography of Stonewall Jackson and the the the 145 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: the personality, the character of Stonewall Jackson is a fascinating thing. 146 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: And then because of the interest in Jackson, you get 147 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 3: interested in how he fought certain battles and what he did, 148 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 3: and then he went on from that. There were plenty 149 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: of others Robert E. Lee, Comps Sherman. By no means 150 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 3: all Southerners, UH. Some some of the Northerners are equally 151 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: great interest are almost equally great interests. There are minor 152 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 3: characters that you encounter as you get deeper into the war, 153 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: comparatively minor, like Pat Clayburn from over in Arkansas, UH, 154 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: Albert Sidney Johnston, Bedford Forrest, UH many many of 'em. 155 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 3: Some of the scoundrels are as interesting as the heroes. 156 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 3: Men like UH Edward Stanton Lincoln Secretary of War, Generals 157 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 3: like Phil Sheridan, whom you personally dislike but find more 158 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: were more fascinating. As you look into UH vacillators and 159 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 3: UH men with warped natures like UH Joseph E. Johnston fascinating. 160 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 3: They don't have to be good heroes. They can be 161 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 3: bad heroes and be just as interested, if not more so. 162 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: There was not much interest in the Civil War or 163 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: in the late twenties and early early thirties. Uh, not much. 164 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 3: And as for veterans, I think I saw about three 165 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 3: of 'em in my lifetime, and they'd probably been drummer boys. Uh. 166 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 3: I was too late to see them, although once I 167 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: did down on the Gulf coast, down Biloxi or near Biloxi, 168 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 3: go to Beauvoir when it was still an old soldier's home, 169 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 3: and I saw a number of 'em sitting around on 170 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 3: benches and things down there. They were just old fellas 171 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 3: with beard as far as I was concerned. They tell 172 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 3: funny stories about those old man The story about a 173 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 3: woman going through a Confederate home down there. There was 174 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 3: an old man about eighty years old, had one of 175 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 3: his legs was off just above the knee, and she 176 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 3: stopped in frontman and shook her head and said, oh, 177 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: my good man, you've lost your leg. And he looked 178 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 3: down and said, damned if I haven't. They were a 179 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 3: funny old men. 180 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 4: Can you talk a little bit about Mississippi's contribution to 181 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 4: the war, Uh, in terms of soldiers and in terms 182 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,599 Speaker 4: of the destruction and everything inside the state. 183 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: The Mississippi contribution to the war was truly great. My God, 184 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 3: Mississippi contributed to the Army of Virginia one of the 185 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 3: hardest hitting, hardest fighting brigades. Boxdales Brigade in long Street's 186 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 3: Corps is one of the finest body of fighting men 187 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: in the Army of Northern Virginia. Mississippi, of course, was 188 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 3: one of those states that had a terrific amount of 189 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 3: fighting within its borders. North Carolina, for example, contributed more 190 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: men to the Confederacy than any other state, but it 191 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 3: was comparatively unripped up compared to states like UH Virginia 192 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 3: and even Mississippi. UH Georgia. Except for Sherman's quick march 193 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 3: through it didn't suffer too much in the war compared 194 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 3: to places like Mississippi. One of the statistics that shakes 195 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 3: me up to know is that UH in the first 196 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: year after the war, Mississippi's total income of the state 197 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 3: of Mississippi, one fifth I was spent on artificial limbs 198 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 3: for the veterans. They just problems you don't even think 199 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 3: about until you've run across the statistics like that the 200 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 3: women in Mississippi who were widowed or the engaged girls 201 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 3: whose intended husbands were killed in that war changed a 202 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 3: lot of things. Before the war, I I don't remember 203 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: the figure, something like eighty percent of far more than 204 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: eight eighty percent of the teachers were men. After the war, 205 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: eighty percent or far more over, women just weren't any men. 206 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 3: The carnage of that war is just incredible when you 207 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 3: come down to the figures on If you want to 208 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 3: be a good writer, you got to have very early 209 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 3: a notion of being true to what you have learned 210 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: out of your personal experience, including your reading, but out 211 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: of your personal experience, you've got to be true to that. 212 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 3: You should never be willing to write a scene that 213 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 3: you know is false to these precepts in your own heart, 214 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 3: simply because it will work or somebody will buy it. 215 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 3: Those are the traps that good writers don't fall into. 216 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 4: Let's talk for a minute about influences. If you can 217 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 4: tell me some of the American writers that influenced you 218 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 4: as as a young man. 219 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 3: A huge influence on my life was William Falkner. I 220 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 3: didn't know him, but he was over there in Oxford 221 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: writing books or among the first modern things I ever read, 222 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 3: and whatever first modern things you read are always very 223 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: influential on you. But in this case, it was a 224 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 3: man writing about my home state that made me see 225 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: my home state in ways I would not have seen 226 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 3: without his help. Well Fulkner's comprehensible on many levels, including 227 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 3: teenage level, and I think that's proved by the huge 228 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: sales he had in paperbacks long before he won the 229 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 3: Nobel Prize. To me, the most unusual thing about Falkner, 230 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 3: the thing I got from him more than any other 231 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: one thing, is his ability to communicate sensation. He can 232 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: tell you what the texture this claw feels like to 233 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 3: your finger if you read a description of dawn in 234 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: the woods in Mississippi, that is dawn in the woods 235 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: and Mississippi. Every sensation that he writes about becomes very real, 236 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: mostly through the use of highly poetic metaphor, but also 237 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 3: through the accuracy of his observation and the intelligence that 238 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 3: he brings to it. It's not often considered because, probably 239 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 3: because it's too simple to consider how highly intelligent man 240 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 3: Faulkman was. Uh that eye that he had was so 241 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: gifted was well informed by his brain behind it. S 242 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: Every writer I ever knew started out as a poet, 243 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: and it was usually he changed prose after he found 244 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 3: out he couldn't handle poetry. But h y, I was 245 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: already writing as soon as I caught fire from these 246 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 3: these people who did it so well. I guess the 247 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: first time I settled down to thinking that things could 248 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 3: be done with words above the level of journalism and 249 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: poetry and those things was the stories I wrote with 250 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: the Carolina Magazine when I was in college at Chapel Hill. 251 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 3: I began to see it there, and then uh when 252 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 3: I left school, and I left it after two years. Uh, 253 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 3: and I was waiting at home for the National Guard 254 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 3: to mobilize because Hitler had gone in Poland. I wrote 255 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 3: my first novel tournament, and that's when I really came 256 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 3: into came to grips with the problem of handling a 257 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 3: larger form. By the time I finished college, and I 258 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 3: was in a class of thirty nine, there had not 259 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: been a major American writer who could even pretend to 260 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: have been well educated. The only one I know of 261 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 3: who had a master's degree was Thomas Wolf, and I 262 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 3: know he stepped on another he kept on another two years. 263 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 3: So it's to live on his folks, which is a 264 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 3: perfectly valid thing to do. But Falkland Hemingway had never 265 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: been to college, Fitzgerald flunked out of Princeton, and so on. 266 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: It It is by no means required, And in some 267 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: ways I think for the say, the last two years 268 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 3: of college junior and senior year, you really might be 269 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: better off out riding freight trains or working in a 270 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: sawmill for the experience that you get from it during 271 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 3: those invaluable years. And your brain is like a sponge 272 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 3: and absorbs every experience you have, if your experiences of 273 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 3: college campus experiences, that's pretty meager sto anything that helps 274 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: you learn how to write. Any outside thing that gives 275 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: you laws and rules, such as a teacher of creative writing, 276 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 3: is short circuiting you. Is keeping you from having some 277 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 3: very valuable experiences. It can only be gained by making mistakes. 278 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 3: What he tells you may be literally true, but you 279 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: don't know it on your own skin, and the only 280 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 3: way you're going to know it for yourself is to 281 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: discover it for yourself. So anybody who gives you excellent 282 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: advice about writing is almost keeping you from learning it. 283 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 3: You can say yes, right, but you can't put it 284 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 3: into practice unless you found it out for yourself. You 285 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 3: can be vitally interested. And I can talk here for 286 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 3: endlessly about theories about writing, about what's good and what's bad, 287 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 3: and what you should do and what you should not do. 288 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 3: And I guess it's very well to have all those 289 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 3: notions in your mind, but when you sit down at 290 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 3: that desk, you better get them all out of your mind. 291 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 3: You fly by the seat of your plants when you're writing. 292 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 3: You don't bring these theories with you. That is what 293 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 3: I meant a while ago when I said there are 294 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 3: some dangers attending upon being highly educated for a writer, 295 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 3: not for a critic. He should be, but a writer 296 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 3: doesn't want to develop his critical faculty to the point 297 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: where it's riding heard on his work. It's all right 298 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 3: for it to be up there, but it better not 299 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 3: be in command. There aren'ty shortcuts, or if they are there, 300 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 3: to your detriment. A shortcut is a very poor way 301 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 3: to arrive at a precept about writing. The longer it 302 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 3: took you to learn it, the harder you had to 303 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 3: sweat to learn it, the better it'll stay with you 304 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 3: and the more it belongs to you. There's an apprentice 305 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 3: to be served to become a writer, at least as 306 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 3: much as to the apprentices to be served to become 307 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 3: a doctor or anything else. You have to study your craft, 308 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 3: your art, your profession, as much as a lawyer or 309 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 3: a doctor. Lawyers and doctors sometimes goffitt that motion, but 310 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 3: they wrong. There's an awful lot of work involved in 311 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 3: learning how to write. You have to learn how to 312 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 3: make your hand do what your mind is telling it 313 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 3: to do. And the only way your hand can learn 314 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 3: how to do that, and that is right. It's the 315 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 3: same way a tennis player gets good with his racket 316 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 3: or anything else. It's a real process. Not that makes 317 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 3: a difference whether you use a pen or a pencil 318 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 3: or a typewriter. I suppose it does to me, but 319 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 3: I suppose it doesn't really. But you have to learn 320 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 3: your craft. You have to learn it so well that 321 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 3: you're not conscious of it while you're working. And that 322 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 3: takes a very lot of hard work. It's sitting at 323 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: a desk facing a blank wall, working many many hours, 324 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 3: day after day after day, until you're able to use 325 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 3: your hand the way your mind wants to put things 326 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: down on paper, I it grows out of their natural propensities, 327 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 3: then you have a true story. And I've always believed 328 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 3: that and operated accordingly. The worst possible way to conceive 329 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 3: a book is a situation in which a man does this, 330 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 3: and that near the best possible concept. Best possible conception 331 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 3: is how about a man who in a situation, not 332 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 3: a situation in which a man, but a man who 333 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 3: in a situation. And it's a very different approach, and 334 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: to me it separates good from bad writing. I'm the 335 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 3: kind of writer who thinks that it's very dangerous to 336 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: take very careful notes. But you have an experience and 337 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 3: you immediately write it all down so that you can 338 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 3: use it. That seems to me a dreadful thing. You 339 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 3: freeze it. That way what you should do, and the 340 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: way I've always done is let it move to the 341 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 3: back of your mind and forget it. And then when 342 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: it re emerges, as it will in future years, it 343 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: comes out with all kinds of incrustations and additions to it, 344 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: and the distortions that take place in your back of 345 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: your mind make it truer than it was when it 346 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 3: got in there. And I think that taking notes for 347 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 3: such uses is a serious mistake in any sense. I 348 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 3: might put down what I had for breakfast that morning 349 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 3: because later on it might be interested. But as for 350 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 3: material to be used, now that's only my personal thing. 351 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 3: Henry James, for example, kept an extensive journal which he 352 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: mined as a mother load, and it was of great 353 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 3: use to him. But I think with D. Lawrence, to 354 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: freeze something is to keep it from growing in this 355 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 3: way that I think it'll grow. It best if it's 356 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 3: not specifically fettered. And I found that to be true 357 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 3: time after time again. The changes that something undergoes in 358 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 3: your sub or unconscious of very valuable things, and they 359 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 3: don't occur if you if you pin it down too 360 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 3: tightly before you let it move into your mind. I'm 361 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: a slow writer. Five six hundred words is a good 362 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 3: day for me, and I have to work long hours 363 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 3: to do that. But if you can turn out five 364 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 3: six hundred words a day, and can do it three 365 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 3: hundred and sixty days a year, you've got a lot 366 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 3: of manuscript there, a couple of pages of typewritten stuff 367 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 3: a days, or it stacks up. That's a novel a year. 368 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 3: If you can do it, you can hold that. And 369 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 3: I did that. The first four or five years of 370 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: my right life. I wrote five novel I don't play poker, 371 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 3: I don't play golf, I don't take rides in the countryside. 372 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 3: I write and read and listen to music. And since 373 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 3: the glorious invention came along, I watched a lot of television. 374 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 3: The glorious thing about television is when you're utterly exhausted 375 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: by a day's hard work of writing, you can sit 376 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 3: down in front of the thing and your brain is 377 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 3: totally inactive. There's just something there on the screen, and 378 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 3: you watch it and it doesn't require a thing of you. 379 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 3: There's nothing there. 380 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 4: Is the younger writer's duty to take what the thing's 381 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 4: going on around him and the way people talk today 382 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 4: around him and translate that into fiction. 383 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 3: Sure, you're onto something there that I haven't mentioned, and 384 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 3: that's the need for a good ear. I've been rereading 385 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 3: John o'harall lately, probably the best ear in American literature, 386 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: and what he got from having a good attentive ear 387 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 3: is enormous. The very similitude of O'Hara's work is enormously 388 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 3: heightened by the accuracy of his hearing people speak in 389 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: a way that you know is accurate because you test 390 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 3: it on yourself. O'Hara once pointed out that people do 391 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: not say, what is the idea of that? What people 392 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: say is what's the idea of that? And that kind 393 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 3: of thing put into your dialogue, especially, you know that 394 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 3: it's true because of the accuracy of his hearing. And yes, 395 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 3: it's very important for young people to learning writing, to 396 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: sharpen their ears up and listen to what's going on. Remember, 397 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 3: Rocky Graziano taught me a lot about dialogue. He was 398 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 3: kicked out of the army for refusing to pick up 399 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 3: cigarette butts. He said, that's not for me, and asked 400 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 3: him later how he felt about it. He said, I 401 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 3: wish now I picked him up, And that's that's the 402 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 3: way people talk, and you should listen to that. It 403 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 3: can also teach you how to make language strike home. 404 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 3: That's a splendid sentence. I wish now I picked him up, 405 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: And you can use that writing many devices and many 406 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: things you can learn from listening to people talk. Black 407 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: and white, illiterate and highly literate, rich and poor. They 408 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 3: all have their virtues and they're waiting for you to 409 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 3: discover them. And that's what a writer should do. If 410 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 3: I was talking about not playing pok D that way, 411 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: I can listen. I do as to advice. If someone 412 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 3: were asking me whether they should become a writer, I 413 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: would always say emphatically no, have absolutely nothing to do 414 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 3: with it under any circumstance. And if he would listen 415 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 3: to that, he certainly should not have been a writer. 416 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: So there's so many pluses and minuses all over the place. 417 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 3: It just has to be an individual judgment. And it 418 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 3: doesn't do any good to tell them that the satisfaction 419 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 3: of being in print is a waning thing. And by 420 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 3: the time your fourth or fifth book comes along, you're 421 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,479 Speaker 3: not getting the kind of thrill you think you're going 422 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 3: to get out of your book coming out. You no 423 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 3: longer think that the public will understand you. They'll never 424 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 3: understand you, and if they did, unders you would probably 425 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 3: be a sign that you had slipped down to some 426 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 3: kind of degree that shouldn't be paid any attention to. 427 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 3: But that's true of all walks of life. It's not 428 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 3: just writers. Everybody knows that how he did what he 429 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 3: does is far more important than how successful or unsuccessful 430 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 3: he was at it. Success shouldn't be scorn, but as 431 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 3: for personal happiness. I'm absolutely certain that it comes out 432 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 3: of the satisfaction that you'd have done your best in 433 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 3: your circumstances, and I think most people do do their 434 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 3: best under the circumstances. Yes, it's a hard life, it's 435 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 3: also the happiest possible life, sometimes depending on a very 436 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 3: simple question as to where the work's going well or badly. 437 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,719 Speaker 3: It's a life where, like any self employed person, successive 438 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 3: failure is strictly up to you. Whether that's good or 439 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 3: bad is your decision. Most people say, yes, that's wonderful, 440 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 3: but they wouldn't be so sure about it when all 441 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 3: the blame comes clumping down on them. But to my mind, 442 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 3: it's the best possible life. I don't go with Henley 443 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 3: about being the master of my fate and the captain 444 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 3: of my soul, but that gets about as closer to 445 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 3: it as you can get. I like it, and the 446 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 3: satisfactions are great. I've been all my life not only 447 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 3: apposed to writers being over educated. I've been opposed to 448 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 3: even financial help it's given them. It's a great thing. 449 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 3: If you can't do any more, then pay the light 450 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 3: bill to be able to do it, And if somebody 451 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 3: comes along with a large grant for you that short 452 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 3: circuits that they're depriving you of something. There, he should 453 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 3: do it on his own. He should be wary about 454 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 3: accepting obligations that would require him to do work he 455 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 3: doesn't like. For instance, ideally, unless he could afford it, 456 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 3: he probably ought not get married. If he gets married, 457 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: if he can't afford it, he probably ought not have 458 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 3: any children. Well, that's one hell of a restriction to 459 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 3: put on somebody. But the writer knows not out of 460 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 3: selfishness does he concentrate on what matters in his art. 461 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 3: He does it because he knows the whole thing's gonna 462 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: blow up in his face if he doesn't. If you're 463 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 3: married and your wife wants a new coat, and you 464 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 3: write some bad fictions so that she can have a 465 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 3: new coat, you and your wife are not gonna get 466 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 3: along very well anyhow, So don't do that. Let her 467 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 3: go cold. The children are hungry, give him a peanut 468 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 3: butter sandwich. Don't go down and buy him some roast 469 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 3: beef by writing bad work, because you're gonna lose those 470 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 3: children anyhow. You'll be so dissatisfied with yourself that the 471 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 3: thing's gonna blow up most writers are gonna blow up anyhow, 472 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 3: so perhaps it doesn't matter. They're self centered people and 473 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: well avoided people would do well to stay away from 474 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: writers have an interest that sometimes you have to feel 475 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: with their I won't say decency, but with their conduct, 476 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 3: be a good idea to stay away from them. They're 477 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 3: not going to tell you anything anyhow. Young people would 478 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 3: do well not to pay any attention to styles and 479 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 3: fads unless they interest them, and concentrate on doing the 480 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 3: very best they can with whatever talent they've been able 481 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: to muster. The best thing to do, in all accounts 482 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 3: is go your own way, work very hard at your craft, 483 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 3: be true to whatever precepts you formed, and everything's going 484 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,719 Speaker 3: to be all right or it won't. But I know 485 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 3: nothing's going to be all right if you do it 486 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 3: any other way. If you like the. 487 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: Michael Berry Show in podcast, please tell one friend, and 488 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: if you're so inclined, write a nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, 489 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: and interest in being a corporate sponsor and partner can 490 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: be communicated directly to the show at our email address 491 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 2: at Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on 492 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 2: our website Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show 493 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: and Podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, The King of Ding. 494 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 2: Executive producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director. 495 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean. 496 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our 497 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated 498 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 2: into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not, 499 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 2: we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the 500 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple 501 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally, 502 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp 503 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 2: Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and 504 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling.