1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and. 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you. 4 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 2: Author and psychiatrist Greg Mauer has done clinical work and 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 2: research in the nightmares and trauma. Greg is the author 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: of The Wisdom of dream Science, Synchronicity in the Language 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 2: of the Soul. He has published numerous professional papers and 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: has spoken at numerous professional conferences. He's been recording his 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: own dream since childhood and has a collection of more 10 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: than five thousand dreams. Greg, welcome to the program. Thank 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 2: you very much, looking forward to this. Tell me what 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: got you into the world of psychiatry. 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 3: I was always interested in the inner life of people 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 3: and what goes on inside them, and also in my 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 3: own inner life and trying to understand what goes on 16 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 3: inside me. I think that's why I've been dreams. I 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 3: think I imagine psychiatry would be more about that inner world, 18 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 3: but it really wasn't. Psychiatry is kind of different now 19 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 3: than it was years ago. But I enjoyed psychiatry. But 20 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 3: I sort of began pursuing my interest in dreams later 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: in my career. What kind of changed my life? Was 22 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 3: a heart attack I had about fifteen years ago. Like 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: after that, I decided to kind of do what I 24 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 3: wanted to do professionally instead of what I was supposed 25 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 3: to do, And then I began to explore this special 26 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: interest in dreams in the inner world more. 27 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, those life changing events really make things happen, don't they. 28 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: Yes, they really do. They make you refocus your priorities 29 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 3: and really decide what's important and what actually matters. 30 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: What got you to start shifting your psychiatry work into 31 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: the dream arena? 32 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: It was I wanted to kind of be internal ambassador 33 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: within psychiatry for attention to that inner world. I think 34 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 3: psychiatry has become too directed towards medications and things like that, 35 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: and I wanted to help my colleagues first understand that 36 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 3: that inner world is important and in hopes that they 37 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: would respect and acknowledge that inner world of their patients. 38 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: So that was kind of my I think what I 39 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: decided my mission. 40 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: Was scientifically speaking, Greg, why do we dream? Anyway? 41 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 3: That's a really interesting question. Dreams seem like the real 42 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: important from an evolutionary perspective, because an only more advanced 43 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 3: animals dream like mammals and squids and only very more 44 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 3: sophisticated animals. And you got to remember that dreaming is 45 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: a high risk thing for an animal to do because 46 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: in that dream phase of sleep, your body is completely paralyzed, 47 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: so you put yourself at risk. So it obviously is 48 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 3: an important thing from an evolutionary perspective. Now, what function 49 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: it serves is what it serves. Definitely serves a role 50 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: in processing trauma, in processing memories, especially the emotional aspects 51 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: of memories, and probably in forgetting too in letting go 52 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: of things that aren't important. So it definitely has those 53 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 3: important roles. For instance, after trauma, let's say there you 54 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: have a significant traumatic event like a car accident or 55 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 3: where you're you're at risk of being significantly harmed or dying. 56 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 3: About half of the people will have nightmares after an 57 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 3: event like that. It's like the body's way of trying 58 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: to heal. And what we see sometimes in patience is 59 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 3: they replay the trauma. But then sometimes the trauma kind 60 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 3: of instead of being like a like a sports replay 61 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: where it's exactly what happened, the mind starts to change 62 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 3: it and process it in a way or favorable way. 63 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 3: And that's kind of an example of what probably the 64 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 3: purpose of dreams are, including nightmares, and. 65 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: Of course there are various different kinds of dreams that 66 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: we all know of, precognitive, lucid dreaming, and just regular dreaming. 67 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: It's almost like it's the body's way of just trying 68 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: to correct things. 69 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 3: Yes, sort of balance things out. Young thought of dreams 70 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: is kind of a way of balancing the ego stance 71 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 3: towards towards the world, like showing you a different way 72 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 3: of looking at things and delivering that kind of message there. 73 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 3: And just like there's different kinds of dreams, there's seem 74 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 3: to be different kinds of nightmares too. There's some that 75 00:05:53,880 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 3: involved processing trauma. There's some that seem to like send 76 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 3: messages that that you that you ignore and aren't hearing, 77 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: So like the message has to get louder in a sense, 78 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: so it becomes like the dream kind of carries the 79 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 3: meta message of wake up, wake up, you know, there's 80 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: something really important I have to say with your what 81 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 3: your inner inner world is kind of saying. There's also 82 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 3: interesting nightmares that kind of seem to present warnings both 83 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: of potentially of things in the world itself, but sometimes 84 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 3: of warnings about things within you with your attitude. Like 85 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 3: there's a famous story of someone that kept insisting that 86 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 3: you listen to his dream at a party, and you 87 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 3: didn't want to, and things like that, but finally he 88 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 3: listened to the guy the guy's dream and his dream 89 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: was about he climbing a mountain and stepping off into 90 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 3: space and falling, and he was a mountain climber, and 91 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: Jung told him, don't climb by yourself, but he continued 92 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 3: to climb in like a few months later, actually did 93 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 3: fall off a mountain kind of in the way he 94 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 3: described in the dream, by stepping off into open space. 95 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 3: So it maybe the dream was a prediction, but. 96 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 4: It may it may also have been a description of 97 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 4: his internal state, like he it was showing him his 98 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 4: own recklessness, which he needed to listen to, but he didn't. 99 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 3: What is a nightmare? 100 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 4: Greg? 101 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: It's far more than a late night pets that we 102 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: eat before we go to bed, isn't it. 103 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's you know, we all have had nightmares. About 104 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: seven percent of people have nightmares once a week. They're 105 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: more common in kids, but they definitely happen in adults. 106 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 3: So there are these reflections of things we need to 107 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 3: listen to, or their traumas were processing, or their kind 108 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: of dreams of warning. And what I hear sometimes too, 109 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: and what I have had myself occasionally over the years 110 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 3: is kind of what I call depression nightmares, where people 111 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 3: wake up not so much scared as in a usual nightmare, 112 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 3: but they wake up feeling really unhappy and feeling the 113 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: sense of longing or sadness. Nightmares also cause what's called 114 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 3: fear of sleep. They're so anxiety to produce that people 115 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: typically wake up and don't want to go back in 116 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: that nightmare world, and so they're kind of afraid to 117 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 3: go to sleep. That's that's kind of famously depicted in 118 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: the Nightmare on ELM Street movies. 119 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: Are are nightmares healthy for us or not? 120 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 3: Nightmares are? They have a healthy aspect, which is the 121 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 3: trauma processing and warning and messages. They may also be 122 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: something that's supposed to work but isn't working, kind of 123 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 3: like I think of it, like the way immune reaction 124 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 3: is a healthy thing, but it's sometimes is not healthy, 125 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 3: like when it's an allergy or an autoimmune disease like 126 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: rheumatoid arthritis. It's that healthy, healthy reaction that's kind of 127 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: gone haywire and is doing its own things so they're healthy, 128 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 3: but they can be like too much of a good 129 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 3: thing and end up being sort of interfering with sleep 130 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 3: in their own way by causing so much anxiety. It's 131 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 3: like the body kind of overshoots, if that makes sense. 132 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: And even collecting dreams for yourself since you were a kid. 133 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have this trash bag in my basem. Unfortunately 134 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: I haven't thrown it away and all my moves and 135 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: things like that, but it's a bunch of old notebooks 136 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: of dreams I started recording probably when I was eight 137 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 3: or nine, literally thousands of them. I'm trying to figure 138 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 3: out what to do with them because they're mostly handwritten. 139 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: But I found some cool AI software that's actually hopefully 140 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 3: through that I'll be able to transcribe them and put 141 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 3: them into text and do interesting things with all that data, 142 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 3: like it'll be interesting to see if some kinds of 143 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: things have changed, or some things were associated with stressful 144 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: events in my life. And everybody has a characteristic pattern 145 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: of dreamings. It's almost like a dream fingerprint, like I've 146 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 3: I've been helping do dream group for years, and everybody's 147 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 3: dreams are recognizable when if I think if they were 148 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: if they were sheared randomly between the group, that we'd 149 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 3: all recognize, Oh that that's so and So's dream that 150 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 3: sell and those dreams because they tend to have characteristic imagery, 151 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 3: Like I dream about water all the time, but it'd 152 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 3: be interesting to look at did I dream about water 153 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 3: as much when I was a kid or less? So 154 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 3: there's those kind of There are those kind of long 155 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: standing lifetime dream collections, but they aren't that common. So 156 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: it's an interesting kind of asset that I want to 157 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 3: work more with. 158 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: Do you find that most of your patients come in 159 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 2: with dream issues? 160 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 3: I think, well, a couple things happen. One I kind 161 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 3: of because I work with dreams, people people find me, 162 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 3: and so I get more people with dream issues than 163 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 3: the average psychiatrists for sure. But it's also because psychiatrists 164 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: and psychologists tend to ignore dreams, they people don't share 165 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: them as much as they would if the psychiatrists was interested. 166 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 3: Like about I think it's sixty percent of patients in 167 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: therapy will share dreams at some point with with their therapists, 168 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 3: even if it's a pure cognitive behavioral therapists or is 169 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: purely interested in medications. It's it's like we as patients 170 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: know that dreams are important even if the person we're 171 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: seeing isn't as interested in them. So I probably hear 172 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: more dreams because I pay more attention and listen. 173 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: Some Some dreams allow us to solve problems in our 174 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 2: day to day life, don't they. 175 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: Yes, there's actually a lot of interesting data about that, 176 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 3: even even things like math problems. They've they've done studies 177 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: where they've had college students think about math problems when 178 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 3: they were going to bed, and those students would do 179 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 3: better on tests, for instance. And there have been other 180 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 3: studies that people like going through a divorce, those who 181 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 3: have dreams about the divorce recover better. So they clearly 182 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 3: have an important role in processing emotions. And that's kind 183 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:18,599 Speaker 3: of shown in the data, which is really interesting. It 184 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: just drives home that message that dreams are an important 185 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: but kind of ignored part of our lives, and our 186 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 3: culture is actually kind of unusual in the way that 187 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: it ignores dreams when you think of other cultures over 188 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 3: time and over history, they they've taken dreams more seriously 189 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 3: and realize the messages they bring, where we kind of 190 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 3: dismiss them as nonsense. A wonderful example of that is 191 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 3: a dream my father had. He never talked about dreams particularly, 192 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 3: but when I published my first book, he was quite 193 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: elderly at that point, he was maybe in his late 194 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 3: nineties or even a hundred. He lived to like a 195 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: one hundred and two. I was showing him my book 196 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 3: and he was in an assisted living but still very 197 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: much with it, and he said, oh, congratulations and so forth. 198 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 3: But then, like a lot of people, he kind of 199 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: paused and said, oh, but aren't dreams just nonsense? And 200 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 3: then he did what a lot of people do. It's 201 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 3: almost like they're following the same script. He said, For example, 202 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: last night, I had this dream, and he told me 203 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 3: this really beautiful, transparent dream, which he thought was nonsense. 204 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 3: In his dream, he was mowing the lawn and my mother, 205 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: who had long passed, she was on the porch and 206 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 3: she was kind of criticized seeing him for the way 207 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: he was mowing, that the rows weren't straight. So he 208 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 3: tells me this little dream and says, isn't that nonsense. 209 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 3: I'm thinking to myself, dude, that's that's that's a beautiful 210 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 3: picture of your life. Because my mother was that kind 211 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 3: of person. She was very critical. I think that's part 212 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 3: of why I loved dreams so much. They're like little artworks, 213 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 3: you know, like like this dream and this single image 214 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: captures my dad's life. And even there's like a deeper 215 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 3: message too, because the idea of mowing, you know, and 216 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 3: here when you're one hundred and two, that that has 217 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: a message of end of life and harvest and things 218 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 3: like that. So such a beautiful condensed image that I 219 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: think that's why I love dreams so much. 220 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: Greg, do the dreams originate in the brain or somewhere 221 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: outside of the brain. 222 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: They for sure originate in the brain, and they originate 223 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: in deeper, deeper brain levels. There's these waves that come 224 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 3: from deeper in the brain. You can see them on 225 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: EG tracings, and those deeper waves trigger the brain to 226 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: go out of its normal deeper sleep phases into this 227 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 3: special space phase of sleep called rapid eye movement sleep 228 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 3: when you have the dreams, and there's interesting changes in 229 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: the body too. The body becomes paralyzed, as we mentioned earlier, 230 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 3: but otherwise the EEG. The brain waves become essentially the 231 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 3: same as adult as awake brain waves. So it's kind 232 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 3: of interesting you go into this special phase of sleep, 233 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 3: and it seems to be a special phase that we 234 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: have like an independent need for. Like you can let 235 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 3: people sleep but wake them up only when they go 236 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: into this rem sleep, and they don't do well if 237 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 3: you just deprive them of rems sleep, even though they 238 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 3: get plenty of plenty of sleep otherwise. 239 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at 240 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to coastam dot 241 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: com for more