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Speaker 1: From met Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This

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Speaker 1: is Cal's we Can Review with Ryan cal Callahan. Now

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Speaker 1: here's Cal.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Hey. This week's special draft of Cal's weekend Review

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Speaker 2: brought to you, as always by Jordan Sellers, UH, the

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Speaker 2: guy putting in the muscle and the backbone behind this podcast. UH.

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Speaker 2: You can find Jordan all over the meat Eater universe

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Speaker 2: on the website and UH working across podcasts. This week

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Speaker 2: We've got Steve Candell, Sam Davidson, and Michael Gibson. Michael

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Speaker 2: is the Idaho policy Advisor. I'm picking on him first

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Speaker 2: because I've known him the longest. He's one of those

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Speaker 2: goofy German short hair pointer guys and a big, big fisherman.

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Speaker 2: Sam Davidson is the policy director of California Public Lands

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Speaker 2: and Communications for the Klamath Based and Wild Steelhead Initiative.

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Speaker 2: And Steve is the director uh A National campaign of

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Speaker 2: the National Campaign Support Center for Trout Unlimited.

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Speaker 1: Guys.

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Speaker 2: Jump jump in and let me know what I got

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Speaker 2: right or wrong there.

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Speaker 3: No, I think you got a Cal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I have the best hunting dogs ever bred them Pointer.

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Speaker 2: For for certain personalities. Michael for certain personalities.

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Speaker 3: How does add real quick? In the sports center I

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Speaker 3: work in, so I just get the opportunity to work

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Speaker 3: with a variety of staff like Michael and Sam as

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Speaker 3: well as volunteers on a whole host of protection campaigns

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Speaker 3: focused on coldwater habitat. So it's a great, great role

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Speaker 3: here at TU.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, thank you well. So yeah, cats out of the bag.

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Speaker 2: We're talking with Trout Unlimited this week to you is enormous.

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Speaker 2: You guys are international technically North America, North America. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we want to also talk about national monuments. So

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Speaker 2: Trout Unlimited is more than just Trout. It's a habitat

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Speaker 2: organization as well, and we're going to dig into that.

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Speaker 2: And then national monuments isn't as a straightforward thing either.

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Speaker 2: National monuments are it's one of those things, one of

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Speaker 2: those topics where everything you say about a national monument

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Speaker 2: is kind of correct, but kind of not correct because

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Speaker 2: they're all individuals. And we're gonna learn more about national

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Speaker 2: monuments and why they can be a hunter and angler's

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Speaker 2: friend as long as you're a part of the process.

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Speaker 2: Sorry to tee that up in a biased way of there, gentlemen,

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Speaker 2: but where where should we start? Michael, do you want

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Speaker 2: to tell us what the heck Trout Unlimited does and

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Speaker 2: in Idaho?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you bet. Obviously we're the leaders in cold water conservation,

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Speaker 1: but we also, as you alluded to earlier, we work

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Speaker 1: on habitat. We also work on hunting and angling issues

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Speaker 1: for sportsmen and women. We work heavily on public lands protection.

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Speaker 1: We know that you know, obviously our bread and butter

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Speaker 1: is is stream restoration, stream protection, water protection, but that

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Speaker 1: is sort of the basis of a lot of other

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Speaker 1: things that are important to hunters and anglers. And so

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Speaker 1: we work on policy issues at the state level and

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Speaker 1: at the federal level in state legislatures, in Congress, with

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Speaker 1: the administration, and we make sure that trout, other wildlife

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Speaker 1: and hunters and anglers get a fair shake.

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Speaker 2: That sounds good. And then so is that that's a

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Speaker 2: North American overview.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, all of the stems from

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Speaker 1: the North American model of wildlife conservation in that you know,

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Speaker 1: we have professional, science based agencies that use money raised

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Speaker 1: from the sale of fishing and hunting licenses to manage

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Speaker 1: our fish and wildlife, and that fish and wildlife remains

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Speaker 1: in the public tre us and uh, you know, we

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Speaker 1: get to go out and enjoy it as citizens of

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Speaker 1: the United States.

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Speaker 2: Arn Right and Steve, you have an interesting title there.

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Speaker 2: What What's what's happening in California Klamath Based and Wild

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Speaker 2: Steelhead Initiative. That's you got a lot on your plate.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I think Sam.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Sam, go for it. Sam.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So my job is mostly on the policy advocacy

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Speaker 4: side of our work, and I I also support our

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Speaker 4: I've worked in and out of communications for a number

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Speaker 4: of years, and I support our communications of a couple

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Speaker 4: of our projects, including our longtime investment in the restoration

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Speaker 4: of the Klamath River, which is hitting a high point

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Speaker 4: this year, as I think probably everybody has heard now,

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Speaker 4: with the actual deconstruction of its fore dams, the fourth

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Speaker 4: and final of which just began or the reported as

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Speaker 4: having just begun yesterday. The ultimately that will restore access

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Speaker 4: for salmon and steelhead in the what was historically the

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Speaker 4: third largest producer of as a watershed of salmon and

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Speaker 4: steelhead on the West Coast. It'll restore access to about

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Speaker 4: four hundred miles of historic spawning and rearing habitat in particular,

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Speaker 4: so pretty exciting and and I'm that's kind of.

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Speaker 2: An understatement, Sam. I mean, that's that's a lot lot

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Speaker 2: happened and and a heck of a topic. I imagine

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Speaker 2: that position. You're you're kind of a hero one minute

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Speaker 2: and to go at the next, depending on who you're

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Speaker 2: talking to.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I suppose there's you know, there's always

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Speaker 4: uh different ways of looking at things, uh the and

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Speaker 4: there you know, there are folks who are convinced that

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Speaker 4: taking out dams, whether on the Klamath or anywhere else,

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Speaker 4: is you know, is not not a great idea in

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Speaker 4: the In this case, it was a business decision by

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Speaker 4: the owner of the dams, Pacific Core, the utility Pacific Core.

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Speaker 4: They it would have cost significantly more for them to

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Speaker 4: upgrade the dams as part of the renewal of their

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Speaker 4: operating license than uh than it was only one of

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Speaker 4: the jam dams was profitable in terms of energy development.

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Speaker 4: They're all they were all hydro powered dams.

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Speaker 1: There was no.

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Speaker 4: Water storage or flood or virtually you know, flood control

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Speaker 4: benefit as part of those dams. So yeah, it's kind

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Speaker 4: of a it's it's a win win and it's one

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Speaker 4: of the you know, along with the Bristol Bay, and

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Speaker 4: I mean it's it's one of the biggest conservation winds

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Speaker 4: that to use had to hand in, certainly at least

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Speaker 4: in my time here.

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Speaker 2: Well, imagine if you're somebody who likes to angle for

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Speaker 2: your salmon and steelhead in the state of California, and

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Speaker 2: you've been looking at your fishing window, your your legal

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Speaker 2: fishing season getting cut down or being non existent the

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Speaker 2: last few seasons. You're anxious for this fourth dam to

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Speaker 2: be removed and and see those flows restored and get

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Speaker 2: down to the brass tacks to seeing how many fish

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Speaker 2: come back.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's uh, that's uh the you know, that's the

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Speaker 4: next major phase, along with the restoration of the of

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Speaker 4: the river kind of the you know, the once the

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Speaker 4: channel's been which it's largely re established itself now because

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Speaker 4: they've got holes in all the bottoms of the dams

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Speaker 4: and they're they're draining, but there's a need to restore

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Speaker 4: the areas that are the former you know below where

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Speaker 4: underwater is part of former reservoirs and uh stabilize those

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Speaker 4: soils and slopes and things of that sort. And that's

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Speaker 4: all uh ongoing with largely being done by tribal UH

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Speaker 4: work crews. So under the h direction of of a

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Speaker 4: country tractor third party contractor ris I was working with

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Speaker 4: the Klamath River Renewal Corporation UH to do that side

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Speaker 4: of things. It's pretty exciting for I mean from an

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Speaker 4: angling perspective, it's uh uh it's it's super exciting. UH,

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Speaker 4: whether you're a tribal person or a sports person, it's uh.

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Speaker 4: They're gonna be fish, salmon and steel ed upstream of

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Speaker 4: where they were able to get the lower of the dams.

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Speaker 4: It was called Iron Gate and it was just upstream

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Speaker 4: of the Interstate Highway five, one of the major interstate

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Speaker 4: arteries in California connecting California and southern Oregon. And there's

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Speaker 4: going to be a a temporary temporary closure of the

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Speaker 4: area of the river that that's called the reservoir reach

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Speaker 4: between Iron Gate and the upstream reach of copcoa reservoir

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Speaker 4: UH for a year to monitor the fish comeback. And

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Speaker 4: but then above that in the wild Trout Designated water

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Speaker 4: which is from Copco to the Oregon border, that that

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Speaker 4: remains open, as does the fishery below below Iron Gate.

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Speaker 4: And you know the Klamus famous for its half Pounder

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Speaker 4: sealhead fishery, right, and and for good reason that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I've always been amazed for a state as

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Speaker 2: populous as California how you can get out to wild

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Speaker 2: places still, and the Klamath is definitely one of those destinations.

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Speaker 2: So I have to go check her out once once

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Speaker 2: it's wild and free. That's topic we could talk about

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Speaker 2: all day. But since we're talking about public lands, and

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Speaker 2: as my covered out of the gate, Trout Unlimited does

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Speaker 2: a lot for public lands, and the current project is

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Speaker 2: uh an interesting one and it involves that big scary

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Speaker 2: word that we brought up before, monument. What is the

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Speaker 2: new monument and and how are we getting there?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll jump in here real quick, and and we've

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Speaker 1: got sort of two that we're focused on. Sam can

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Speaker 1: cover the one being looked at in California, but the

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Speaker 1: awa he's in Oregon. Actually, the Awahie Watershed is a

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Speaker 1: seven million acre watershed that's in Oregon, Idaho, and Nevada.

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Speaker 1: We've been working real hard the the the Idaho portion

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Speaker 1: of it was protected back in the early two thousands.

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Speaker 1: We've been working for a number of years on getting

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Speaker 1: protections in place for the Oregon Hawahi canyon Lands. There's

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Speaker 1: about two million acres of high value wilderness quality lands

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Speaker 1: that's been either put in Wilderness Study Area by the

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Speaker 1: BLM or lands with wilderness characteristics. Senators Widen and Murkeley

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Speaker 1: and Oregon have been working for a long time to

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Speaker 1: try to put together legislation. There is an introduced bill

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Speaker 1: in the Senate that would protect one point one million

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Speaker 1: acres of those two million acres of wilderness quality lands

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Speaker 1: and make them wilderness. Obviously, as you guys probably know

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Speaker 1: from paying attention to fish and wildlife policy, Congress is

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Speaker 1: kind of broken right now and there's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of agreement from the two sides of the aisle on

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Speaker 1: how to move forward on protections. And so while the

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Speaker 1: Wide and Merkley bill is a great bill, it was

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Speaker 1: put together with a number of different stakeholders and all

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Speaker 1: over Oregon and is properly introduced in front of the Senate,

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Speaker 1: we're not sure of its future uh in Congress, and

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Speaker 1: so we've we've started a parallel track asking the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration to use their powers under the Antiquities Act to

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Speaker 1: designate a monument in the Hawahi canyon Lands. So we're

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Speaker 1: we're hugely supportive of the legislation. It's a great piece

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Speaker 1: of legislation. It's innovative, it's got some new things in

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Speaker 1: it for flexible grazing. It's got an oversight committee that

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Speaker 1: could do projects to improve range lands out in the Owahi.

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Speaker 1: But we're just not certain it's going anywhere, and so

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Speaker 1: we've we've asked the administration to engage on a monument proposal,

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Speaker 1: and those conversations continue. It is it's a it's definitely

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Speaker 1: a different beast than a piece of legislation, and we

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Speaker 1: are cognizant of of people's apprehension with with that designation.

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Speaker 1: But we're also committed to not just getting the signature

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Speaker 1: from the President, but seeing that process through to a

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Speaker 1: management plan for the monument that includes all of the

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Speaker 1: stakeholders that use it. The Awahi is an unbelievable place.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people talk about how we've been working

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Speaker 1: on protections for the Awahis for the last two decades,

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Speaker 1: but actually, in some of our research, we unearthed a

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Speaker 1: document that dates back in nineteen twenty eight, and it

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Speaker 1: was submitted to the National Conference on Outdoor Recreation in

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty eight that highlighted the awahis as one of

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Speaker 1: the crown jewels of open space and habitat in the

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Speaker 1: West that needed protection. So it hasn't just been two decades,

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Speaker 1: it's been one hundred years. And then if you want

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Speaker 1: to go even further back and talk about its importance

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Speaker 1: to Aboriginal tribes, the Burns, Payu, the Confederated tribes of

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Speaker 1: the Duck Valley Reservation, it's got huge tribal significance out there.

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Speaker 1: So if any of you have been to Boise in

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Speaker 1: the last ten years, you'll notice that it's gotten quite big.

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Speaker 1: There's probably going to be a million people in the

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Speaker 1: Treasure Valley by the end of this decade. And with

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Speaker 1: that comes a lot of impacts from recreation. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot more ohv use going on out there, and then

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Speaker 1: there's you know, your traditional threats from mining, from transmission development,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the folks that are engaged on this

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Speaker 1: campaign and looking at the Awahi, we don't want to

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Speaker 1: lock anybody out of there. We want to see it

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Speaker 1: be the landscape that it is right now, but it's

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Speaker 1: going to be hard to keep it the way it

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Speaker 1: is without some protections in place. There's there's unbelievable habitat

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Speaker 1: for sage grouse out there. We've got interior red band

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Speaker 1: trout on the landscape, you've got pronghorn, you've got mule deer, elk,

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Speaker 1: and then California big horn sheep and chucker. It's it's

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Speaker 1: really a sportsman's paradise out there, and we want to

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Speaker 1: keep it that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting chunk of ground, right, Like, there's

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Speaker 2: amazing things out there. The landscapes unbelievable, but it's unbelievably brutal.

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Speaker 2: So despite being on the doorstep of this crazy growing,

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Speaker 2: fast metropolitan area, it's a great place to go out

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Speaker 2: and not see a lot of people. But those same

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Speaker 2: people are going to be the ones who kind of

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Speaker 2: way in and say how they value that land. Right,

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Speaker 2: So the anglers are going to have a perspective, the

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Speaker 2: big mule deer hunters are going to have a perspective,

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Speaker 2: the upland game folks are going to have a perspective.

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Speaker 2: And how does all that come together for a monument?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: The monument brings a level of federal protection to the ground,

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Speaker 2: But does that mean that it's going to turn into

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Speaker 2: you know, like the scariest thing of all, which is

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Speaker 2: the place people can't go. Is it going to be

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Speaker 2: preservation versus conservation? Are we going to be able to float,

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Speaker 2: hunt and fish out there for those species that you

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Speaker 2: just named?

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Speaker 1: The answer to that is a resounding yes. It will

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Speaker 1: not lock people out. Our hope is that we can

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Speaker 1: protect fragile habitat and still allow access. We are committed

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Speaker 1: as Croud and Limited and all of our sportsman's partners

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Speaker 1: to making sure that hunting and fishing and access persists

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Speaker 1: out there. Will you be able to drive a motor

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Speaker 1: vehicle to every square inch of that landscape?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: But will you be able to access important places to

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Speaker 1: hunt and fish? Yes, and we're at the table making

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Speaker 1: sure that happens.

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Speaker 2: I guess we should cover a couple of the other

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Speaker 2: major uses out there right, which which should be grazing.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of like a historical use in that area.

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Speaker 2: Basically the only people started out there off of mining claims,

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Speaker 2: I think. But what any any of those kind of

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Speaker 2: quote unquote extractive uses fall into consideration, Michael.

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Speaker 1: Well, grazing would persist. There would be no nobody's going

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Speaker 1: to lose their grazing permits out there. We think with

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Speaker 1: some additional resources and working with ranchers. We could improve

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Speaker 1: habitat and the impacts of grazing, but we're not trying

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Speaker 1: to trying to move any cows off of there. As

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Speaker 1: far as extractive resources, uh, you know, monuments would not

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Speaker 1: allow new mining claims. Existing mining claims would be unaffected.

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Speaker 1: There would be a higher level of scrutiny on transmission

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Speaker 1: projects and other industrial impacts out there. But but in general,

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Speaker 1: you know, existing uses would persist.

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Speaker 2: Got it? And what why is the monument designation the

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Speaker 2: tool of choice for this area?

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Speaker 1: Well, like I said earlier, we would be hugely supportive

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Speaker 1: if Congress could get a wilderness bill done. We think

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Speaker 1: Widened and Merkley have put in some good work on that,

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Speaker 1: but it's just it's not seeming like it's in the cards.

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Speaker 1: And so the Antiquities Act gives us an avenue to

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Speaker 1: get this place protected, and then the hard work would

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Speaker 1: begin of writing a monument plan to manage that area.

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Speaker 1: And like I say, the big thing there is, you know,

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Speaker 1: putting it off limits to new mining claims, putting some

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Speaker 1: some solid sideboards on transmission development, and then also having

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Speaker 1: a really solid travel management plan that uh we make

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Speaker 1: sure we protect high value habitat while still allowing access

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: It's huge once you get out there. So yeah, the

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Speaker 2: travel portion is something that that's that's kind of tricky, right.

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Speaker 2: You want to be able to provide a certain level

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Speaker 2: of equitable access, right, which is going to include to

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Speaker 2: some degree, I would think, uh, side by side single

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Speaker 2: track use. But at the same time, you have the

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Speaker 2: greater sage grouse out there. That is you know, honestly,

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Speaker 2: this white heat country, it could be years down the

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Speaker 2: road with the way the sage grouse is trending, could

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Speaker 2: be like the last holdout of the greater sage grouse

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Speaker 2: because it's it's just so big and remote and you

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Speaker 2: can't have folks running over old growth sage brush.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is a really amazing landscape. I spent

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Speaker 1: a ton of time out there, Hunchucker in the fall.

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Speaker 1: You do not want to go out there without an

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Speaker 1: inReach and an extra spare tire, or you could be

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Speaker 1: in for a long day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when that little yellow lab gets bit by a rattlesnakes,

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Speaker 2: it's a long way out to event. From personal experience.

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Speaker 1: It sure is, but it is probably it is one

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Speaker 1: of the largest landscapes still left in the lower forty

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Speaker 1: eight where there's significant opportunity for conservation, especially for sage

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Speaker 1: grouse habitat and other game.

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Speaker 2: And seeing those desert big horn down there is amazing,

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Speaker 2: Like watching the way that they moved through that crazy

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Speaker 2: rim rock country. I've sat on top of those rims

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Speaker 2: and watched brown trout feed subsurface because the water's so

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Speaker 2: clear through my fifteen by fifty six is So that's

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Speaker 2: not an experience everybody gets. It's it's pretty wild, tons

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Speaker 2: of raptors. It's it's amazing country. I want to swing

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Speaker 2: back to timing and the Antiquities Act and how we

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Speaker 2: ensure that we can we can keep what's important to

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Speaker 2: us if we mobilize around this idea of a monument.

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Speaker 2: So it just just keep that in mind, Michael. But Sam,

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Speaker 2: what what's happening on the California side.

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Speaker 4: So we're the campaign that we're heavily vested in now

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Speaker 4: here is to gain national monument designation for this area

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Speaker 4: of public lands about a little over two hundred thousand

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Speaker 4: acres of mostly the Klamath National Forest. It's actually administered

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Speaker 4: by three.

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Speaker 1: Four US up there.

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Speaker 4: The whole area, and it's called the Medicine Lake Highlands

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Speaker 4: or in the language of the Pitt River tribe whose

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Speaker 4: home land it is, it's called Cititla. And this area

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Speaker 4: is this campaign is relatively new. It just launched last November,

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Speaker 4: and it's one of these kind of extraordinary places that

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Speaker 4: have been a little bit maybe under the radar from

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Speaker 4: folks who aren't locals up there, but which has kind

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Speaker 4: of remarkable uh uh implications for hunting and fishing. This

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Speaker 4: this area is really unique geologically and hydrologically. It's uh

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Speaker 4: it's the largest remnant of the largest shield volcano in

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Speaker 4: North America. And uh landscapes very porous, it's very rugged

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Speaker 4: and very porous. And that that whole complex stores and

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Speaker 4: filters as much water as mostly from snow melt as

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Speaker 4: as as as California's two hundred largest surface reservoirs. So

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Speaker 4: it's it's this amazing like reserve of cold, clean water.

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Speaker 4: And it drains in sort of an unusual way. It's

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Speaker 4: the uh it drains to most of it drains to

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Speaker 4: the southeast and into the Fall River Valley where it

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Speaker 4: comes out of the ground in a variety of springs.

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Speaker 4: There's a complex of springs there, the Fall River Springs,

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Speaker 4: which are the largest spring system in California and one

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Speaker 4: of the largest in the Western US. And it's the

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Speaker 4: principal source, possibly even the soul source of water for

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Speaker 4: one of the most famous trout fisheries in the West,

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Speaker 4: which is the Fall River, and that's California's largest spring creek.

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Speaker 4: And and they're they that river system because of the springs,

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Speaker 4: has unique chemistry.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 4: And it it's really prolific in terms of growth of weeds,

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Speaker 4: hatches of insects, and trout which are consistently you know,

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Speaker 4: what would be considered trophy sized trout. In a lot

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Speaker 4: of rivers, it's mostly float fishery, but it's it's where

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Speaker 4: we are. Our interest in this is largely because of

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Speaker 4: that connection between the Fall River and it's trout fishery

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Speaker 4: and and that kind of unique trout population there and

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Speaker 4: the and the highlands, and it's there are water bodies

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Speaker 4: and fishing opportunities up higher as well as pretty good

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Speaker 4: upland game opportunities.

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Speaker 1: It's uh uh.

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Speaker 4: The X one zones, one of the the is bracketed

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Speaker 4: by a couple of California's X zones deer hunting zones,

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Speaker 4: and there's turkey, prong, horn, mule and black deer up there, Quail.

378
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Speaker 4: It's it's a really it's a it's a relatively remote

379
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Speaker 4: and it's still relatively unspoiled area that the Pier River

380
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Speaker 4: Tribe is has decided after decades of fighting to preserve

381
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Speaker 4: that area and their cultural sort of the cultural heritage

382
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Speaker 4: and importance of it to them from things like energy development.

383
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Speaker 4: It's in particular, there's a big there for many years,

384
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Speaker 4: and there are a number of leases outstanding for this

385
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 4: purpose to develop geothermal er G facilities. So anyway, there's

386
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 4: there's a lot. It's one of these kind of last

387
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 4: best places for hunters and anglers in California certainly and

388
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 4: probably in the western US. And I would also say

389
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 4: with respect to you know, some of your questions earlier

390
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 4: cal about monument you know, designation, what what that does

391
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 4: or doesn't do for sports people. I think of it

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Speaker 4: as like we're we're we're actually like monument designation actually

393
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 4: preserves for the the only I can only think of

394
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 4: one place where there was any conflict with a pre

395
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 4: existing if hunting, with hunting and fishing that were pre

396
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 4: existing uses and so, and that's being rectified. That's in

397
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 4: the Castle Mountains National monument here in California, and that's

398
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: getting fixed. Everybody agrees that was a mistake. It's National

399
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 4: Parks Service administered, which was the principal source of the

400
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 4: problem there, and and so national monument designation actually is

401
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 4: one of the best ways of keeping things as they are,

402
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 4: including access for traditional uses including fishing and hunting. And

403
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 4: when there's a you know, we're not we're not making

404
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 4: any more super high quality habitat. We have to and

405
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 4: you know, with the things getting hotter and drier, and

406
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 4: a lot of parts of the country in the world,

407
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 4: there's a lot of you know, we have to do

408
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 4: more faster to protect it. So in this case, national

409
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: monument designation makes a lot of sense, in particular for

410
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 4: the Setitla area of the Medicine Lake Highlands. It's which

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00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 4: is an area of kind of really extraordinary scientific as

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Speaker 4: well as cultural value that the designation makes a lot

413
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Speaker 4: of sense under the antiquity sect.

414
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Speaker 3: And I think it's worth emphasizing Sam and cal that

415
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: these monuments we're talking about in for Service and BLM Land.

416
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 3: I don't think it was already said that management of

417
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: fish and wildlife populations stay with the state. Fish and

418
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 3: wildlife agencies. I think that's often misunderstood. It gets confusing

419
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: quickly because monuments certainly apply to BLM and Forest Service lands,

420
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: but they can also be designated on federal lands managed

421
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 3: by the National Park Service or the US Fish and

422
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: Wildlife Service. But we're talking about again BLM Forest Service lands.

423
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: Nothing changes in terms of the authority that those state

424
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: Fish and Wildlife agencies have, and it's been really interesting

425
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 3: to see you said it before, Cal. These are flexible

426
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: management tools and ways to protect these areas. We've seen

427
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: in some recent monuments in the last year, places like

428
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: the Grand Canyon National Monument of Equm National Monument, Nevada,

429
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 3: where they even added additional language just to clarify that

430
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 3: point that the state agencies, you know, certainly retain that authority,

431
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 3: have the flexibility to continue working with the federal land

432
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: management agencies and a whole host of of habitat manager

433
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: and projects, so it doesn't tie the hands. It kind

434
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 3: of is business as usual for that relationship between the

435
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: States and the Feds.

436
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 5: Thanks Steve Jordan. Siller's here for the listening audience. As

437
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 5: as regular listeners will know, Cal frequently works while out

438
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 5: in the field and he had a storm roll in

439
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 5: which cut off his connection to Elon Musk and Starlink.

440
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 5: So I'm going to go ahead and continue this this

441
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 5: super fascinating conversation. Michael, you had mentioned that once the

442
00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 5: president designates a monument, then that you said, the hard

443
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 5: work of putting a plan together starts. Could you talk

444
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 5: a bit about who controls that process, how long does

445
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 5: it take, and then also do people have a chance

446
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 5: to weigh in on that.

447
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is after the designation of a monument, there

448
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: is a period of time where a management plan needs

449
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: to get written. We obviously support having as many stakeholders

450
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: at the table to discuss that management plan. It depends

451
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: on the landscape as far as how long it takes

452
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: for that management plan to be in place. It can

453
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 1: happen in as fast as a year, or it can

454
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: take a little longer than that, depending on what's going

455
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: on in the landscape. But those are put together by

456
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: the whichever age and see the monument is designated under.

457
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: So in the case of the Hawaii's in Oregon, it

458
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: would be the Bureau of Land Management and Department of

459
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: the Interior that would run that process of getting a

460
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: management plan in place.

461
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 5: And then Sam does it kind of look similar.

462
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 4: In California, Well, for the Satilla Monument, it would be

463
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: the Forest Service would be the oversight it would remain

464
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 4: the oversight agency. There's I mean, historically most national monuments

465
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 4: were managed by the National Park Service, and now for

466
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 4: the last ten years or so anyway, maybe slightly longer,

467
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 4: new monument designations have mostly been not kind of created

468
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 4: out of whole cloth, but have been created for areas

469
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 4: of super high value use for recreation, for habitat, for

470
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 4: water sources, for cultural reasons, etc. That are managed by

471
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 4: the Forest Service of the BLM, And in those places,

472
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 4: those agencies have, to my knowledge, remain the administrators of

473
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 4: the monument. I think there's based on experience that we've

474
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 4: had in some monuments since I think there's a better

475
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 4: understanding now on the part of those agencies that putting

476
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 4: together monument plans, plans for managing the monuments properly in

477
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: accordance with the purpose for which they were established, including

478
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 4: hunting and fishing opportunities, is a higher priority, and so

479
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 4: I think we'll I think there's some optimism that we'll

480
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 4: see more emphasis on that for new monuments going forward,

481
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 4: and and certainly on on. You know, from our perspective

482
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 4: and that of our partners working on these campaigns with us,

483
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 4: there there's uh, you know we you know, we're committed

484
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 4: to helping them do that and engaging hunting and fishing

485
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 4: folks in that process from the get go.

486
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: I think it's worth mentioning to Jordan more of the

487
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: recent monument designations. I'll go back to the Grand Canyon example.

488
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 3: When they're designated, they create advisory committees. It's part of

489
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 3: the monument designation. And these advisory committees have representation, certainly

490
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 3: tribal representation from grazing permittees. I know with the Grand

491
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 3: Canyon example, they do have some seats available for folks

492
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,479
Speaker 3: in the angling, hunting, conservation world. And then they also

493
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 3: had a specific mention of a seat at the table

494
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: for Arizona Game and Fish. So just one more opportunity

495
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: to get a good collection of folks around a table

496
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 3: to as Michael said, kind of roll up your sleeves

497
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 3: and work through a whole list of issues. A lot

498
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: of these issues are where the kind of rubber meets

499
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: the road for your public land anglers and hunters. Now,

500
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 3: staying engage in those processes is important and can result

501
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 3: in some good outcomes for folks.

502
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's probably worth jumping in here too because

503
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: this comes up a lot in conversations. But a monument

504
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 1: is only the federal land that it's designated over, so

505
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: private lands not affected, state lands not affected. It is

506
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: in the case of the A while he's in Oregon,

507
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: it would only be BLM federally owned land that would

508
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: be under this management plan.

509
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 5: That's a good I'm glad you clarified that because I

510
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 5: think sometimes people think a monument is sucking up, you know,

511
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 5: all these other types of land and turning it into

512
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 5: a monument. But it's just federal land that is under

513
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 5: a different designation is now under a monument designation. I think, uh,

514
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 5: a lot of hunters and anglers probably some listening when

515
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 5: they hear that something is going to be a national monument.

516
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 5: And we've touched on this, you know a little bit already.

517
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 5: There's a concern there that this land will be no

518
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 5: longer available for access. And when we talk about different

519
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 5: stakeholders having a seat at the table, you know, one

520
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 5: of those stakeholders, you know, could potentially be folks who

521
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 5: want to preserve that land as opposed to conserve it

522
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 5: for multiple uses. They don't want to see people on it.

523
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 5: They they they don't maybe like hunting and fishing. How

524
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 5: how can folks uh make sure that that that land

525
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 5: stays open. What are some things that our listening audience

526
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 5: can do to to to make sure that they still

527
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 5: have access to those those lands?

528
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I can jump in. I think again,

529
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 3: just just to make clear that you know, the authority

530
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: for managing those fish and wildlife populations stays with the states.

531
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 3: That should put their minds at ease. So you know,

532
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 3: for example, Brown's Canyon National Monument was designated back in

533
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen here in my home state of Colorado. You know,

534
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 3: elk tags, fishing licenses still managed and distributed by Colorado

535
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 3: Parks and Wildlife, so that doesn't change. That's that's key

536
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 3: with these BLM four service national monuments, So they don't

537
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: want to lose sight of But you know, once designated,

538
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 3: once you kind of have those general sideboards for management.

539
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 3: And Michael touchdown this well, really we're just talking about

540
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 3: maybe two or three core things about no new leasing

541
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 3: for energy development, no new stake you know, mining claims,

542
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 3: and then also the third one, I don't think Michael

543
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: touched on was it prohibits the sale and transfer of

544
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 3: federal public lands within that monument boundary. That just makes

545
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 3: me think back Jordan too, you know, years ago, and

546
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 3: we had some bad ideas, you know, Perkle in Congress

547
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 3: and state capitals about selling off large tracks of federal

548
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: public lands and that issue in particular. I never saw

549
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 3: English and a hunter's rally together better than around that

550
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 3: issue to push it back and stomp it out. So

551
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 3: people should feel good about that part of monuments as well.

552
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 3: It keeps that federal public lands in place. Make sure

553
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 3: your favorite places to fish and hunt don't get sold

554
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 3: unbeknownst to you. So that's worth mentioning. And then you know,

555
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 3: back to the planning efforts. You know, everyone has their

556
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 3: favorite hunting grounds, their favorite places the fish, but engaging

557
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: in those processes, those travel management planning processes that might

558
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 3: alluded to that's where again you're kind of talking road

559
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: by road, trail by trail. But again in some of

560
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: the more recent monument designations, I keep thinking back to

561
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 3: a Grand Canyon last year. You know there was specific

562
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 3: language in there about you know, providing reasonable access for hunting, fishing,

563
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: habitat management. So those issues have come up in a

564
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 3: number of these designation processes. People should keep bringing them up,

565
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 3: but they haven't gone overlooked. The BLM four Service has

566
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: heard those concerns and worked some of that language into

567
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 3: these proclamations, which essentially offer kind of initial blueprint for

568
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: managing these areas until you go through a more extensive

569
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: planning process.

570
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I was going to jump in on

571
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: that one too. And that is a key piece of

572
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: a monument is this proclamation language which identifies what they

573
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: call objects, which are the important things on the landscape

574
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: that need to be protected. And one of the reasons

575
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: that Trout and Limited and it's partners in the hunting

576
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: and angling community have engaged on monuments is we when

577
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: we start writing those proclamations, we make darn sure that

578
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: hunting and angling is part of the proclamation. Absolutely.

579
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 5: So what what should people do if they want to

580
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 5: see these monuments designated? Who should they be contacting?

581
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: Well, we've got a lot of resources on tu dot org.

582
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: We've got a landing page for both of these campaigns.

583
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: We're working with partners UH in the sportsmen and women community,

584
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: the National Wildlife Federation, backcountry hunters and anglers are working

585
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: on the Oregon away. He's they've all got their own

586
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: avenues of entry, but it's real easy to go to

587
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: tu dot org and find these landing pages. We've got

588
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: petitions that can be signed. Those those are tracked and

589
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: and periodically given to decision makers in Washington, d C.

590
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: The administration as well as the Oregon in California designation

591
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: uh uh congressional representatives and add your name to those petitions.

592
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: Keep informed on what's going on. As we pick up

593
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: steam here towards the end of twenty twenty four, there's

594
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of opportunities to engage.

595
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 3: I had to add George, I'll make a quick plug

596
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 3: for in twenty twenty three to you and some of

597
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 3: those same partners at Michael just mentioned. We put together

598
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 3: a monument report just because, yeah, most people don't have

599
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 3: a good sense of what they are, what they do,

600
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: what they don't do. So if you go to t

601
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 3: dot org, if you just go into your favorite browser

602
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: and type in trout and limited National Monument Report, it'll

603
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: come up, and it does takes a deeper look at

604
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 3: again the details of national monuments and also it looks

605
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: back at four different monuments designated years ago. Brown's Canyon

606
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 3: here in Colorado's one of them, Oregon Mountains, a Desert

607
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 3: Peaks in New Mexico, Missouri river Break, And it really

608
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 3: takes a deeper diving and looking at since monument designation

609
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 3: what did it mean for the hunting and fishing? And

610
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: I think the take home message is that it you know,

611
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 3: when these monuments are done the right way kind of

612
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 3: how we're describing, with good input from anglers and hunters,

613
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 3: they can be a net benefit for communities as well

614
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 3: as public land hunters and anglers. And those three places

615
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 3: I mentioned, the list goes on offer some world class

616
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 3: hunting and fishing opportunities.

617
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would recommend and we'll we'll link to this report,

618
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 5: this National Monuments Report at the memeater dot com slash

619
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 5: col So if anyone wants to check it out, I

620
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 5: would definitely recommend it. It's super interesting, lots of great

621
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 5: photography in there, So yeah, check that out. Well, thanks guys,

622
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 5: I appreciate you're all coming on and and talking about

623
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 5: this topic with us. Anything else that you wanted to

624
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 5: mention before we sign off here.

625
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 1: Well, just thank you guys for giving us a platform

626
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: and getting the word out. These are important landscapes for

627
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: the hunting and angling public. We need to be aware

628
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: of this. There's plenty more that need attention to so

629
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: I would just encourage your listeners to stay informed and

630
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: get involved. We need your boys absolutely.

631
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 5: Michael Gibson, Steve Kendall, Sam Davidson, thank you guys so much,

632
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 5: and thank you all for listening. We will see you

633
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 5: next time here on Cale's Week Interview