WEBVTT - Could Solar Be The Answer To Africa’s Energy Crisis? 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:07.960 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.799 Electricity as we know it has been around for several centuries, 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.400 and yet in twenty twenty four, there's still many parts 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.239 of the world where people don't have access to it. 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.000 Here in South Africa, where I'm speaking to you from, 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.800 blackouts have eased slightly, but that's after years of intensified 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.520 blackouts which crimped South Africa's economy. And we're not the 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.240 only ones on the continent. Other African countries are dealing 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.879 with similar issues. So what could be the solution. Solar 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.800 has to be our default go to technology to resolve 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.280 the energy crisis in Africa. The energy source is the sun. 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:50.080 It's free. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:57.880 More and more nations see photovoltaic or PV energy as 0:00:57.920 --> 0:00:59.960 an opportunity to light up our. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.840 For cut of breaking news. You guys, the sun does 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.680 not shine twenty four hours a day. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.360 But is the sun really the answer to power shortages 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.400 on the continent. And there's also the question of climate change. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.640 How can the PV industry produce solar panels resistant to 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.600 extreme weather conditions. That's what we're going to discuss today 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:27.399 with Bloomberg's energy reporter Paul Berkhart. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.880 this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.320 each week from the continent, driving the future of global 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:39.880 growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Paul, thank 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.520 you so much for joining us. So let's start by 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.800 looking at the big picture. Many parts of the African 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.520 continent are still in darkness and in some countries it's 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.080 very common to have power shortages, as we mentioned, how 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:55.040 do you explain that. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.280 If you look across the entire continent and there's about 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.520 population of around one point two billion, almost half of 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:07.200 that population doesn't have access to electricity. And in the 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.079 entire world that numbers about eight hundred million people who 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.400 live in energy poverty, so the vast majority live in Africa. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:19.440 The amount of people without access to electricity has actually 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.360 gone up in recent years. Some of that's due to 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:26.520 population growth, but a lot of the time it's because 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.200 people just live in very remote areas and utilities that 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.760 don't have the resources to connect them already. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.120 Yeah, and that brings us to South Africa, of course, 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.080 which we talk about quite a bit in this newsroom, 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.280 but also when you talk about population not being able 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.440 to serve the population Nigeria is also something that comes 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.040 to mind there. How would you describe the Nigerian situation 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:52.480 in particular. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.600 Yeah, Nigeria is really the big one when it comes 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.280 to poutages, and they kind of they laugh at South 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.720 Africa in terms of the power cuts that we have 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.440 here because I think it's just become the thing of 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:07.760 everyday life there. So almost a third of African countries 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.840 have more generator capacity than they do like an installed 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.440 grid capacity, and that's because of the reliance on your 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.840 own power source. Nigeria is the absolute leader in that 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.680 it's up to you as a resident, as a homeowner 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.400 or as a business to solve that problem if you 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:25.320 live in Nigeria. 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.520 But she would think it would be a public good 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.360 right to have electricity, especially when it comes to business, 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.600 which is why it's surprising that there isn't more investment 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:35.560 that has gone towards the sector. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.480 Absolutely in South Africa, it's even been seen as a right. 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:41.840 You should have a right. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:46.400 To electricity or the tools of development should be accessible 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.800 to everybody. The utility that generates like almost all the 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.960 electricity in South Africa's ESCAM, and it's dealt with a 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:58.000 lot of different issues corruption, mismanagement depends on bailout and 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.680 ESCOM itself believes that it's not charging enough for electricity, 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:06.040 so most of all it's become prone to breakdowns. We've 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.960 had record power cuts that again pale in comparison to Nigeria's, 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:11.600 but they're still very bad. 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.359 Solar energy will be the dominant source of renewable energy 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.000 by the end of the decade. 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.560 You know, Africa has ten thousands you go ups so 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:22.240 love to show. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:27.760 So then, Paul, that brings to the question about solar right, 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.640 I mean, this could be a very obvious answer for 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.280 these black opps, especially in many of these countries which 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.200 have I think a majority of their days are with 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.960 the sun out right. Why haven't we seen this tapped 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:41.440 as much as it could be? 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.160 Yeah, I would say on the positive side, Africa has 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.880 some of the best solar resources in the world. Namibia 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.200 I think is on the very top of the list, 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.360 and then there are a lot of other African countries 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.600 that not only get strong solar power, but they get 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.720 year round. But still it depends on what you're using 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.800 it for austrial application, you can't necessarily do that with 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:03.760 solar alone. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:08.880 You would need kind of utility scale batteries. It is used. 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.560 Looking on a limited basis in a lot of places 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.560 and in remote areas where you can charge your phone 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.839 or radio kind of basic things, but it can also 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.600 work for homes. And what we see in South Africa 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.280 as there have been more power cuts is they've actually 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.840 installed up to I think five gigawatts of solar panels 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.440 at this point, and so if you have an inverter 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:36.360 and you have solar panels, then you can basically get 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.000 off the grid and you don't have to rely on ESCAM. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.960 The problem with that is these systems are between one 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:47.120 hundred thousand rand and two hundred thousand rand for the 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.120 whole thing, and that's more than a lot of South 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.120 Africans earn in a whole year. So it's just not affordable. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.840 So then we're likely going to see more and more 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.600 people finding their own ways to power their homes. Essentially, 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:02.880 is that sort of the model that is really going 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.320 to start spreading across the continent, because as you mentioned, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.360 there are some people who can afford it right to 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.880 have solar panels at their homes, but their next door 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.080 neighbor may not have that. Is it just going to 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.120 be a broken up grid more and more. 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.839 Yeah, it's a huge issue. It's going to create even 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.080 more inequality in a place like South Africa or Nigeria 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.599 because those who can afford to generate their own power, 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.400 they'll do that and they have been doing that, and 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:33.280 those who can't, and for those who it'll become increasingly expensive. 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:35.320 That sort of leaves them. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.520 In an area where they have to find solutions and 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.160 there really aren't many coming up. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.120 After the break, we'll be looking at the economic potential 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:48.719 of the photovol take industry for Africa and other renewable energies. 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:50.080 We'll be right back. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.240 It is a pretty exciting time to be in the 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.680 solar industry. Our projections tell us that this year our 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.960 industry is going to grow by about fifty two percent. 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.200 So we've seen a number of projects rising up over 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.480 the years when it comes to solar power. But I 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:08.160 wonder if you take a look at the continent, who 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.080 would you say, which country would you say is leading 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:12.960 the solar race. 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.320 As it stands, it's South Africa. So there was this 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.680 program that started a little over a decade ago for 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.760 private developers to build renewable power and it was very 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:29.320 successful until it got blocked for political reasons, but still 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.480 South Africa would be much bigger, but that could change 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.960 pretty quickly. There are opportunities throughout the continent. This Morocco, 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:44.200 Egypt and local manufacturing assembly takes hold, then that's really 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.640 the accelerator, and so they've been looking for that in 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.080 South Africa. That's really what would cause like a massive 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.480 change and for projects to be built. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.120 But still the manufacturing, at least the local manufacturing you're 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.920 talking about, has it yet gained enough team on the continent. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.120 Is that sort of the assessment you'd give it. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.160 That's right, Yeah, I think you see maybe to a 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.560 small degree, some assembly that takes place, but otherwise, like 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.120 a lot of this just comes in imported. 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.640 What are we hearing, Paul from the public sector on this, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:22.880 because this ultimately is affecting these economies, right, Is there 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.280 enough will to address the grid and the disparities really 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.240 between who has and who doesn't have power. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.120 We're starting to see a little more of a convergence. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:33.959 We have some of. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.600 These there's some foreign funding available and then that would 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:42.079 in turn bring in more private investment, and so we're. 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.200 Starting to see more and more of that. 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.480 South Africa has had a very successful to some degree 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.400 program to bring in more renewables, even going back to 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.080 twenty eleven. But I think what's accelerated now is the 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.840 shortages of electricity in South Africa, and so it's really 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.800 in a way it could force more solution, but the 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.920 funding just in large part isn't there. Their grants and 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.240 their loans, but there are a lot of other political 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.560 issues around whether to take some of this money and 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.760 just the amount of money that's needed. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.400 There's still quite quite a ways to go. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.959 And that of course factors into the climate situation, right 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.000 and the effect that is then having on the whole 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.040 entire situation. I mean, I wonder in your time, since 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.800 you've been covering this, if you still think that we 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:31.800 are on the right track, even given sort of the 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.079 climate emergencies and the extreme weather events that we're seeing 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:36.000 across the continent. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.480 That's a great point, because we see more and more 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:43.840 of them here and Africa's ironically is like extremely exposed, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.840 more so than a lot of other places to the 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.680 effects of climate change. And I think as people experience that, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.120 then that firsthand experience becomes more of a motivator to 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:55.960 change things. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.400 But still we see these changes. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.320 When we see some of the issues around for example, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.080 switching from coal for South Africa, and what's going to 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.480 happen with the mining industry and what happens with those 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.920 jobs and where do these jobs in the renewable industry, 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:12.240 where will they come from? 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:13.960 That needs to be explained. You know. 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.520 Again, we'll see the private sector really be able to 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:18.120 source the. 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:19.960 Power and the electricity that they need. 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.680 But there's a much bigger issue in a country like 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.320 South Africa, for example, more than sixty million people, the 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.760 vast majority are going to be trying to figure out 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.439 what they're going to do about getting electricity. 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.520 What about it being tapped potentially and I mean solar 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:41.400 paul it being tapped potentially as an opportunity for African government. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.280 You mentioned how plentiful the resources are, right, Are we 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.920 at the point yet where some governments can potentially sell 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.400 their solar access or their solar power to other parts 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.719 of the world or are recent on early days we. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.840 See opportunities even within Africa. 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:03.400 There's some countries that are looked at exporting electricity the 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.760 way South Africa used to really and now they need 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.360 all the power that they can get. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:09.760 But there are opportunities. 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.240 There's certainly opportunities in Morocco and other countries that are 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:15.600 so close to Europe. 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.520 In the North African desert. One country is embracing this 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:25.079 bright feature. Morocco has just switched on the world's largest 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:29.480 solar power plant. Soon energy from these skies will be 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.760 exported to the richest economies in the world, with the 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.800 potential to transform the lives of millions. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:40.160 And even in terms of green hydrogen and these other 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:46.079 energy options that are coming up, you absolutely can export 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.200 those things. And yes, the governments can look at this 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.240 as an opportunity and they could find some success. Then 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.440 maybe it has quite a bit of discussions going on 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.760 about their green hydrogen projects for example. But I think 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.760 even if you look at energy resources in terms of 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.560 oil and gas, what African countries still need if they're 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.960 exporting these things are programs at home. What is this 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:13.199 doing for your own power supply? So not only do 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.360 the places that you're sending electricity to have power, but 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:18.760 more importantly that you have power. 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.120 Yourself, absolutely, and that's what the citizens are waiting for 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.800 as well. Paul Burkhart, thanks so much Paul for joining us. 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:26.440 Thank you. 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.720 As Paul mentioned, the resources are there, the need for 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.120 the population is as well. What's most pressing at this 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.240 point is the funding and the will to commit to 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.800 the solar project's long term as they do take a 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.600 long time. As Paul mentioned there. This program was produced 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.640 by Adrian Bradley and Leon Wadrago. Don't forget to follow 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.959 and review this show wherever you usually get your podcast. 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.360 I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.