1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Their organized crime and they don't stop. I won't stop 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: and they won't eat it. 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: From Futro Media and PRX. It's Latino usay. I'm Mariano 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 2: Rosa Today. A conversation with Lydia Gacco, a Mexican journalist 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: in exile. In twenty twenty, Mexico was named the most 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: dangerous place to do journalism in the world, and twenty 7 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: twenty one was no different. The country had more journalists 8 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: murdered for doing their job than any other, including war 9 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 2: torn places like Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria. The country has 10 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: been a danger for the free press for decades, though, 11 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 2: and Lydia Gacco knows that all too well. Lydia is 12 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: an investigative journalist and human rights activist who's been covering 13 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: organized crime and violence against women and children for more 14 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: than thirty years. In two thousand and five, she published 15 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: The Demons of Eden, an investigation that uncovered an international 16 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: child trafficking network led by powerful businessmen and politicians in Mexico. 17 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: To say that it rattled those in power would be 18 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 2: an understatement. Since then, Lydia's life has been under constant 19 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: and increasing threats. A few months after the publication, of 20 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: her book, she was kidnapped and tortured for more than 21 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 2: twenty hours by Mexican police. It was later revealed that 22 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: the torture had been ordered by a sitting governor of Mexico. 23 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: The goal was to silence Lydia Gaccho. It didn't work. 24 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: Lydia survived and has never stopped trying to bring to 25 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: justice those who ordered her kidnapping. She's also continued her 26 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: investigations into global trafficking networks and how violence affects those 27 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: most vulnerable. She's written more than a dozen books since then. 28 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: I first met Lydia in twenty sixteen, and I was 29 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: immediately surprised by her spirit and her humor. I knew 30 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 2: what she had been through in the decade earlier, and 31 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: I really had a hard time believing how she could 32 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: continue to work under such difficult circumstances. Because the attacks 33 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: against her never stopped, Lydia had police protection at all times. 34 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: She was very private and never let her guard down. 35 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: International watch groups had urged her to leave Mexico, but 36 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: Lydia refused to leave her country. Mexico wasn't just where 37 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: she was born, it was the place where she had 38 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: built her career. Then one summer evening in twenty nineteen, 39 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 2: Lydia suffered an attack in her home. She had no option, 40 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: it was time to flee the country, and since then 41 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: she's been in exile in Spain. I recently spoke with 42 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: Lydiac Gaccho once again and we talked about living through 43 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: this latest attack and how she manages to continue to 44 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: do the journalism that she does, and how she still 45 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: finds joy throughout it all. Here's our conversation, Lydia Gotcho. 46 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: It's my honor and I'm so happy to be able 47 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: to say, welcome back to Latino, USA, welcome to the 48 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: show again, comstas. 49 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much, Maria. I'm okay, so 50 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: excited for this conversation. 51 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: So a lot has happened since we spoke in twenty sixteen. 52 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: You went back to Mexico, and then I started following 53 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: you on Instagram and I would see you in southern 54 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: and you got that you were not revealing where you 55 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: were exactly, but I would see you in your home home, 56 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: working with your dogs, and then all of a sudden 57 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: you were gone. And I'm wondering if it would be 58 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: okay if you told us about what happened in that 59 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: summer evening of twenty nineteen, what you can share with us. 60 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: Of course, of course I can share it with you. 61 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: I had been working for a couple of months in Spain, 62 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: really excited about a new book. I had been working 63 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: in Mexico and Colombia and went to Syria to one 64 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: camp to talk and interview young women involved in the war. 65 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: And then I went back to Mexico and I had 66 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: three armed policemen protecting me, apparently protecting me all the 67 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: time and protecting my home. So I told my security 68 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: agents that I was going back, and it was a Sunday, 69 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: and they were the only ones that knew. I arrived 70 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: at the airport and they didn't go to picked me up. 71 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, in like ten minutes, 72 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: everything just became men. I saw the cameras in my 73 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: house with my cell phone, and some of the cameras 74 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: were down. I called the people that live in the 75 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: house and take care of it, but it was suddenly 76 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: so it was there free day, and they said, we 77 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: don't know anything. We are in the beach, and the 78 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: big door was open. My nephew had been in the 79 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: house and he fortunately he wasn't there at the moment. 80 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: He also went to the beach and the gunman cicadios. 81 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: They entered the house. They killed my dogs. These guys 82 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: opened the main door and they destroyed my bedroom looking 83 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: for me. They went into my studio and only stole 84 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: some papers and some photographs and USB. But it was 85 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: very strange. They didn't take my computer, They didn't take 86 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: all the hard days that I there. They went straight 87 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: to pick up some evidence that link organized crime and politicians. 88 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: They knew what they were going after, but they want 89 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: to get me. The police were nowhere to be found. 90 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: They didn't even notice. I was able to get out 91 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: of the country immediately, fortunately and talk to one of 92 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: the Interpal agents. He investigated the guys that were in 93 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: the cameras really fast. Within a week we knew they 94 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: were secarios working for the Cartel of Sinaloa and they 95 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: were paid to kill me. When we investigated, more and 96 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: more authorities didn't want to get involved in stopping them. 97 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: They didn't do anything with the police that didn't take 98 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: care of me, And that's when I decided I had 99 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: to stay out of Mexico. Ever since June twenty nineteen, 100 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: I had to flee the country, and then finally from 101 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: New York to Los Angeles. I came to Spain and 102 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: I stayed here because I can't not go back to Mexico. 103 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: Were you completely taken aback by this or when you 104 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: saw it happening, were you like, oh, Petro Claro, you know, 105 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 2: of course they were going to come after me eventually. 106 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: This is the first time I was taken aback in 107 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: such a situation. It was actually the seventh time they 108 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: tried to kill me. There were dead threats and attempts before, 109 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: but this time was different because I had testify against 110 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: the leader of the international child trafficking network coming as If, 111 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: and he was red tagged by INTERVAL and they were 112 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: looking for him, and he flee the country, and also 113 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: the governor of Puebla flee the country and they were 114 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: looking for them. So when I talked to Interval, they 115 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: told me, you know, they are too busy trying to 116 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: get away from justice because they know that you are 117 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: really gonna win this. So right now they are not 118 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: gonna get busy like bothering you. They they don't want 119 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: to get another case against them, you know, they just 120 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: want to keep quiet, and that's what we thought at least, 121 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: But at the same time I kept telling the Interpol agency. 122 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: I remember when I was being tortured by the orders 123 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: of common lass If and the governor of Pueblin. They 124 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: told me they were going to kill me and throw 125 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: me in the sea. And the chief of police kept 126 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: telling me, looking at me and putting a gun in 127 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: my head. He said, listen, Lydia, if you testify against us, 128 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: or if you ever tell this story, we are going 129 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: to kill you. It doesn't matter we go to jail, 130 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: you are going to die. In the back of my mind, 131 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: I knew that that tread was there, but also I 132 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: knew that they were in jail, that they lost a 133 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: lot of their networks and power, and they might be 134 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: making an intelligent decision saying, Okay, we're not gonna do 135 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: anything else against this woman because she is really going 136 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: after us. But well, they're organized crime and they don't stop. 137 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: I won't stop and they won't either. 138 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: So that's it. This was twenty nineteen. It's really just 139 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: around the corner that you had to go through this. 140 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: So forgive me for asking, but lopiences mucho. How often 141 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: do you think about it? Have pictures of it? In 142 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: your mind. 143 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: Of course, I think about it almost every day. I 144 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: go to therapy. As I told you a long time 145 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: ago when we talked, therapy has helped me a lot. 146 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: The killing of my dogs was a big thing for me. 147 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, if you're a dog lover, 148 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: you understand that. 149 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: I cannot even imagine Lydia, I had. 150 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: This amazing four dogs that I adopted. Two of them 151 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: were road violers, and I had them since they were babies, 152 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: and I leave alone. I used to be married, but 153 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: I am no longer married. So every time I went 154 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: back home, the dogs were there with me. I would 155 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: take them to the beach, we would take walks. They 156 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: would just always be with me in the house, in 157 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: the studio where I was writing, and I would play 158 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: with them every morning after doing yoga and meditation in 159 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: the garden, and one of them was even doing doga, 160 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: which is yographer dogs. And then all of a sudden, 161 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: the kinning of my dogs was like killing a part 162 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: of my spirit, of my strength, of my security, and 163 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: then losing my home. Because you know, we talked about 164 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: this a long time ago too, but I don't have 165 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: anything as a reporter. I only had this house. It 166 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: took me ten years to build it, and that was it. 167 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: I only had a house and a car, and that's 168 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: I don't have savings. So I had to flee the house. 169 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: And now I'm selling the house because I have to 170 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: survive here in Europe. And that's it, you know. So 171 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: I've been working through that, through letting go, you know. 172 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: And it's not the belonging or it's not the building itself. 173 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: My house was a place where I was protected, I 174 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: felt safe where I wrote most of my books and 175 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: I felt safe writing them, and I had an inspiration, 176 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: so I feel like inspirations stay there, and I had 177 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: to bring it back here to Spain. 178 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, the same year that you had to 179 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: leave Mexico because they were attempted to murder you, the 180 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 2: Mexican government actually publicly apologized for the kidnapping and the 181 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: torture that occurred. So on the one hand, the Mexican 182 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: government has the capacity to apologize to you. On the 183 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 2: other hand, you can no longer live in Mexico. You 184 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: will not go back to Mexico. How do you see 185 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: the truth or the duplicitousness of the Mexican government regarding 186 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: freedom of journalists. 187 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: The fact that the actual government of there is Manuel 188 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: Lopez or Rador. As for forgiveness video better in my 189 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: case response to. 190 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: Did you see it as an actual apology? 191 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: It is an act of apology, but it comes out 192 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: of ten years going through international courts that I want 193 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: in Geneva. And what happened was the UN in Geneva 194 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: sent an ordered to Mexico City to admit that it 195 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: was the Mexican government's fault that I was tortured because 196 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: a governor ordered my torture. Policemen were the one torturing me, 197 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: so the government had to admit that it was a 198 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: state torture. So they were forced to do it. They 199 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: didn't want to do it, but people outside thought, wow, 200 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: the Mexican government admitted for the first time in history 201 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: that a female journalist was tortured because a governor ordered 202 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: her torture to protect a network of international child traffickers. 203 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: So it was applauding and I thought, this is the 204 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: beginning again of the new fight. So the Mexican government is, 205 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, like any other government, is not all corrupted. 206 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: Of course, the corruption is big and spread, and impunity 207 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: is ninety percent in most of the cases, but we 208 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: also have good judges. But the justice system in Mexico 209 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: is in a war within itself. You know, there are 210 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: so many mafia lawyers and mafia judges within the system 211 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: that it's so hard to win cases. You win one 212 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: and then they go again, they appeal and they win 213 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: because they put like millions of dollars and they just 214 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: get away with it. So that's the real fight. And 215 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I keep going in my case 216 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: is not because of me or because I want vengeance. 217 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. You don't get vengeance from these people. But 218 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: what I want is to set a president and to 219 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: show that the good judges, like the ones in Italy 220 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: when the mafias were trying to rule the country, the 221 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: good judges can make the difference. 222 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: You are now living in Spain under a very different situation. 223 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: In Mexico, it was to Patria, your homeland. You are 224 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 2: now living in a city in Madrid, and I'm wondering, 225 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: how are you living? That's in a I mean, it's 226 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: totally different, right, I mean, I love Madrid, but it's 227 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: definitely not the Caribbean. 228 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: I went to a doctor the other day here in 229 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: Spain to deal with my postraumatic stress syndrome and some 230 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: health issues that I have regarding that, because after the 231 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: torture of been having health problems. So I went to 232 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: this doctor and he's from Argentina, exiled here from the dictatorship. 233 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden we were talking and 234 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: he asked me about my emotional health and I told 235 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: him the truth, and I said, I cry a lot. 236 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: I'm really sad, you know. I try to deal with 237 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: it every day, but I have friends and everybody's so 238 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: nice to me in Spain, but I still feel so lonely. 239 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: And he said, you have the exiled persons syndrome. And 240 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: he said the syndrome is that your heart is broken 241 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: in the middle, and one half of your heart is 242 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: back in Mexico and the other half is here in Spain. 243 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: And you have to work in such a way that 244 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: you have to bring back that part of your heart 245 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: that is staying in Mexico. And of course I cry 246 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: a lot when he told me that, But I've been, 247 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, trying to understand that, and I think he's 248 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: so right, and he's an amazing doctor because they usually 249 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: just talk about the body. But if you don't deal 250 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: with the emotion and the illnesses and all the problems 251 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: of you know, the violence I survived, they won't go away. 252 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: So I'm working on that. And even though i just 253 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: sent my new book to my publisher and I'm excited 254 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: about it, I still feel like I'm an orphan. I 255 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: lost my country. I'm not a patron, but I lost 256 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: my country in such a way that it's I feel 257 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: so freaking unfair. 258 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: You know, coming up on Latino USA, how Lydia continues 259 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: to do journalism in exile, and how she takes care 260 00:16:19,840 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 2: of her mental health. Stay with us notes, Hey, we're back. 261 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: We're going to continue now with my conversation with the 262 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: investigative journalist from Mexico, Lydia Cacco, who is now in exile. 263 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: One of the things that has changed for you is 264 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: not only having to leave your country. You know where 265 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 2: you did the body of your work, and that you 266 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 2: know the country inside and out. Now you're having to 267 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,239 Speaker 2: do journalism in Spain, and now we're having to do 268 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 2: journalism that is restricted because of the pandemic. And I'm wondering, 269 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: how are you managing to do the work that you do, 270 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 2: which is so people centric when we are kind of 271 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 2: confined to being in our homes and tied to computers 272 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 2: in many ways. 273 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: I have a good friend here, a journalist, an amazing documentarist, 274 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: and when the Taliban took over Afghanistan, we talked and 275 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: he said, I was able to get a flight to Afghanistan. 276 00:17:58,800 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 2: Let's go. 277 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: He said, I need you. I want you to help 278 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 1: me interview the woman. And I wanted to go, and 279 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: I can't because of my migration status right now. But 280 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: I'm just so desperate to get my passport in order 281 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: for me to go back to Syria, where I want 282 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: to go to the border to interview all these migrants 283 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: and all these children that are going through different things. 284 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: And I think I have the ability to tell the 285 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: stories that almost nobody is telling, and I want to 286 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: go back there, and I'm trying my best to do it. 287 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: And I'm doing interviews here in Spain for a book 288 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: about young girls and how they see their rights and 289 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: how they've been dealing with the mental health after COVID, 290 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm working and working. 291 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: When you're a journalist, it's very hard for us to 292 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 2: stay tied down, and so I love the fact that 293 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 2: you're just like as soon as you can you're out 294 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 2: there back on the road, hitting the streets and telling 295 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: these stories. In fact, in twenty twenty, you became executive 296 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: producer and host of The Red Note Lenoda Roja, which 297 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 2: is a podcast that delves into the thirty year long 298 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 2: history of femicides in Suda What Is in Mexico? So 299 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 2: what was it like to go back to talking about 300 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 2: Suda what Is? And also this is your first big 301 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: podcast production. I'm just wondering how what kind of challenges 302 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: did you face, and particularly when you think about the 303 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: fact that Suda What Is It's been thirty years of 304 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 2: this reporting. 305 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: Well, it was amazing, It was extraordinary. It was a 306 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: big challenge. Greg Whitney, the director, and Stephanie the main producer. 307 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: When they called me they said they had these scripts 308 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: for the documentary in the podcast. This is episode one 309 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: of The Red Note. Listen carefully, this is a true story. 310 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: It was such a pleasure to work with them. I 311 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: went to La because I couldn't go back to Mexico 312 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: because they want to kill me. So I went to 313 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: La to be near the producers and I worked with 314 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: the scripts with Craig in Spanish and in English messinto 315 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: Andrada the ce lavos. They are ka pot in ses 316 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,239 Speaker 1: cuchadas and hoards. And I started reading and I just 317 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: went back immediately. My mind went back to the first 318 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: time I went to see a hoartest to document one 319 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: of these fem sides, and I just wanted to tell 320 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: the story. I was like, Oh my god, I have 321 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: all these notebooks in my house, and I asked someone 322 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: back in Mexico to go to my house and send 323 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: me boxes of all my notebooks from back then, from 324 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four nineteen ninety six, when I was documenting 325 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: this and my photographs. I used to travel with my 326 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: camera all the time to see the hoartest, and I 327 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: have all this information from there. It was like, very 328 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: few of us really have all the story, the whole 329 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: entire story, but I was there, so it was amazing 330 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: and exciting, and I thought, I have so much to 331 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: bring to this project, and I think that this is 332 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: a most after thirty years of femicide. It was one 333 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 1: of the jobs that I have enjoyed most in my life, 334 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: probably because because you know, podcasts and radio are just 335 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: some of my favorite media. 336 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 2: So Lydia, you have been a journalist and a human 337 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: rights activist now for over thirty years, and as a 338 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 2: woman especially, it's something that you know, it's never been easy, 339 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: and you've been doing most of that work in Mexico 340 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: see Noise a Noise facil and I'm just wondering what 341 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: has given you the strength essentially to do this type 342 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 2: of work and continue to do it despite all of 343 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: the adversities. 344 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: My mom was a French feminist, a psychologist that used 345 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: to work in the poorest areas in Mexico City, and 346 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: she taught us how to be activist. It was in 347 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: our DNA with my brothers and sisters. So when I 348 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,239 Speaker 1: was like fifteen or sixteen, I was so aware of 349 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: our rights and how justice was violated every day, and 350 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: how the poorest were suffering on discrimination oppression all over 351 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: the country, and it was sad. I was really depressed 352 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: back then. When I was a teenager, I remember blaming 353 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: my mom and telling her it wasn't fair that she 354 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: would expose us to all these awful things that were 355 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: happening in Mexico because we were young and my other 356 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: friends were just talking about makeup or sports or other things. 357 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: And I remember quite well, when I was eighteen, my 358 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: mom told me, you know, enjoying life is a choice 359 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: you make every day, doesn't matter what your context is, 360 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you live in a zone of war 361 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: or if you live in a nice country. Waking up 362 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: and making a decision of being a good person, of 363 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: not exercising violence against anyone, including yourself, and being aware 364 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: that you can enjoy moments of your day. That happiness 365 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: is not a thing that happens to you. It's something 366 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: that you create collectively. But you have to be there 367 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: represent in order for happiness to exist in your life 368 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: and in the life of others. And that made me 369 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: understand what was going on in these pueblos in Mexico. 370 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: That you would go to Wahaka or to Jeapas and 371 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: see people suffering from starvation or from extreme poverty, and 372 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: women walking miles and miles to get water and then 373 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: just sitting down around the fire and smiling and laughing. 374 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: And I remember that contrast, and when my mom explained 375 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: it to me, decided to explore that side of humanity. 376 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: We need to be there were the light within and 377 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: without in order to be good journalists and good human 378 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: rights activists and good citizens in general. 379 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 2: And you know, this is actually something that I'm really 380 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 2: interested in this notion of how you can create happiness 381 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: even in the face of really challenging, difficult circumstances, and 382 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you more about that. So, how, 383 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: in fact did you find the tools that worked for 384 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 2: you specifically to help you maintain your mental health? 385 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: Well, I guess it goes back again to my mom 386 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: and her groups of feminists, friends and doctors and psychologists. 387 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: I remember one time my mom was in a conference 388 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: talking about mental health and all these issues, and then 389 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: a psychologists, male psychologists, came to this conference and he 390 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: talked after my mom, and he talked about meditation and 391 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: the Silver mind Control method. I remember that and I 392 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: was like, mind control, Oh my god, that sounds awful, 393 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: sounds crazy, like somebody wants to brainwash you or something. 394 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: So I asked him and he said, read the book, 395 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: you know, make your own conclusions. I was nineteen proudly. 396 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: He asked me what I wanted to dedicate my life 397 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: to and I said, well, I want to change the 398 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: world basically, and he said, okay, then you have to 399 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: be mentally healthy to do that, because otherwise you won't 400 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: be able to do anything. It will destroy you. And 401 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: so I bought the book and I read it, and 402 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: a lot of things didn't make any sense, but some 403 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: of them did. And the part that did make sense 404 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: was the part in which the author explains how our 405 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: mind works, and how we keep trauma in one part 406 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: of our brain, and how memory works, and how we 407 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: can bend our brain in such a way that we 408 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: can bring more pheromones, and all this neu transmissis could 409 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: be fed by all the things that were not depression 410 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: or sadness or stress or anxiety. And I've always been 411 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: an anxious person since I was a little girl. That's 412 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: why I don't like drugs, because I don't need them. 413 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: I was born with them integrated, I guess. So I thought, 414 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: this makes sense. I need something like that. So he 415 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: had these exercises that were breathing exercises, and he recommended 416 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: a lot of books at the end. 417 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 3: Of the book. 418 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: So I started reading Buddhism, and then I got married. 419 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: He read it and he thought it was interesting too, 420 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: and we started reading all this Buddhism books and yoga 421 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: and d and we said we don't want religion into it, 422 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: but we wanted our own meditation system. Breathing was a 423 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: big big part of it, and then just by you know, 424 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: with books. And then we started meeting people that were 425 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: doing that but were afraid of talking about it because 426 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: people would judge them as crazy or as if they 427 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: were joining sights or whatever. And then I met this 428 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: amazing woman, Pillarge. She was a yoga teacher back there 429 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: in Cancun, and she started teaching menolini yoga. And then 430 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: I just wanted to explore more and more with my 431 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: husband too, and I just fell in love with it 432 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: because I could see the changes in my humor, in 433 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: my sleep patterns, in the way I was approaching things 434 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: and problems, and in the way I handle stress and 435 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: my anxiety and everything. So that's why I just keep 436 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: on learning and I keep on using it. And when 437 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: I discovered the apps, I was like, hey, yeah, so 438 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: many amazing, amazing apps for meditation, for sleeping. For example, 439 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: when I was doing slavery in a book of where 440 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: I travel around the World, I was in Kyrgyzstan and 441 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: was infiltrating all by myself in Afghanistan in the border, 442 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: and I was so anxious and so stressed, and I 443 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: remember listening to this tape where somebody was talking like 444 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: this like breathing and breathe out and find your purpose. 445 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: And what you're going to do is you knows spring 446 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: light into the world and then go to sleep. And 447 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: I did and the next day when I was there 448 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: doing everything went amazing. So it's not magic. It's something 449 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: that you do. It's a discipline in order for your 450 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: mind to be in the moment and to be aware 451 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: that you have to be safe and to be present, 452 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: like really present in the moment. And as a journalist, 453 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: it's something that you truly need because if you distract yourself, 454 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: you can you know it just not even if you're 455 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: not even in a dentious situation, but if you were 456 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: in interviewing someone and you are not truly present, the 457 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: interview can go absolutely different, can be superficial, or can 458 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: be amazingly profound. So that's why I just use that, 459 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: and I think it's a big part of my mental 460 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: health because it is. 461 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: You know, that interview that we did in twenty sixteen 462 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: actually changed my life. How come in my personal life 463 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: and in the country. It was just a very tough time. 464 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 2: And we stepped outside the studio and I said, oh, yeah, Melidia, like, 465 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: how do you like, how do you do it? You 466 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 2: are you know, centered, I can see it. And you said, well, 467 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: I do yoga and I meditate, and I said, no, 468 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 2: don't tell me you do yoga. Please don't tell me 469 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: you meditate that I can you know. And you kind 470 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 2: of looked at me very sternly, and you said, meditation 471 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 2: is going to save your life. Do you know how 472 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: to use an app? I said yes, and you said, 473 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: look for all the free meditation apps until you find 474 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: one that works. And after that day, I started looking 475 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 2: for different meditation apps every day until I found when 476 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 2: that works. And it's the thing that literally has saved 477 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: my life. So grass yes, I'm sorry I took so 478 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 2: long to tell the story, but it really means a 479 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 2: lot to me. 480 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: Oh thank you, Grassia as well. It's just sharing the 481 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: other kind of knowledge that we learned along the way 482 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: as journalists and as human rights activists, and as women 483 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: working in the world in such a world that it's 484 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: so surrounded by violence and we overworked ourselves. I remember 485 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: that conversation. I remember when we talked about it, and 486 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: you also asked me why I could laugh so much 487 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: after everything that had happened to me. But I do 488 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: remember that I remember the conversation because you know, we 489 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: hardly ever talk about the costs of everything we do 490 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: and how we keep it inside, you know, bottle up, 491 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: and then we need to talk about it and to 492 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: work on ourselves in order to help others and to 493 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: help the world with journalism or whatever we do in life. 494 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: So you've talked about doing talk therapy, meditation, you do 495 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: the yoga. Is there anything else that you do for 496 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: your mental health and especially now that you are you're 497 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 2: in exile. 498 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: Yes, I do this. I dance by myself like a 499 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: crazy person. I love music and I have these playlists 500 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: in my phone with different kinds of music I have, 501 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: like from seals to rock to jazz, Oprah just dance 502 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: in my house like a crazy person and just singing 503 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: out loud. And I do things like that that are 504 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: kind of meditation. It's another kind of meditation. I actually 505 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: just adopted a little dog because my therapy is here 506 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: in Madrid told me that it was time to do it, 507 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: that I needed to go for it because every time 508 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: I saw dogs similar to mine, I would just had 509 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: nightmares that they were suffering and trying to protect my house. 510 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: Because I know they did. I feel guilty you know, 511 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: for the suffering of my dogs. I know it sounds 512 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: a little corner or I don't know, but I do. 513 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: I do, and that's a feeling I'm dealing with. 514 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 2: You know. 515 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: I would take long walks, and I enjoy, you know, 516 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: seeing friends, and I like to put myself in situations 517 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: that can make me laugh. I love laughing. I need 518 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: sense of humor, so I do look for situations in 519 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: which I can laugh and just have fun, just enjoy 520 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: life and forget that I'm a journalist. 521 00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 2: Sometimes I just lie. 522 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: The other day, I was in a bar next to 523 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: my house and with my dog, and the owner just 524 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: started talking and make friends with my dog, and he 525 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: asked me what I did, and I said, you know, 526 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: I pink houses. It was so much fun because we 527 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: talked about everything except journalism and drama anything. So sometimes 528 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: it's good just to be, you know, a regular person 529 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: and not be Lydia Catchu. 530 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for speaking with me, Lydia Catchu. 531 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 2: It's been great catching up. 532 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and just you know, keep on dancing, 533 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: because that's what we need to do in order to 534 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: stay happy and buy the powers that be. 535 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 2: In November of twenty twenty one, the Spanish government granted 536 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: Spanish citizenship to Lydia Catchu for her unique vulnerable circumstances. 537 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 2: Lydia is now free to travel wherever her work might 538 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 2: take her, except, of course, not to Mexico. Lydia's latest 539 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 2: book is called Gartaza more irrebel Dia Biographia The Una 540 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 2: reportera Rante, and that means Letters of Love and Rebellion, 541 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 2: The Biography of a Wandering Reporter. It will come out 542 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 2: in March of twenty twenty two. This episode was produced 543 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 2: by Victoria Estrada and edited by Andrea Lopez Crusado. It 544 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: was mixed by j J. Carubin and Julia Caruso. The 545 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 2: Latino USA team includes Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Julieta Martinelli, 546 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: Patricia Sulvaran, Ginni montalbo Alejandra Salasad Rinaldo, Leanos Junior and 547 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 2: Julia Rocha, with help from Raoul Perez. Our editorial director 548 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: is Julio Ricardo Varella. Our supervising senior and gen is 549 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 2: Definitely Lebau. Our associate engineer is gabriel A Bias. Our 550 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 2: digital editor is Luis Luna. Our fellows are Elisa Raena, 551 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 2: Monica Morales and Andrew Vignalez. Our theme music was composed 552 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 2: by Ze Ruinos. If you like the music you heard 553 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 2: on this episode, st i Letinousa dot org and check 554 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive 555 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 2: producer Maria Nkosa. Join us again on our next episode, 556 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 2: and in the meantime, you can find us on all 557 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 2: of your social media. Nilos Waco, Estella, Proxima. 558 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 3: Cchao Latino USA is made possible in part by the 559 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 3: Heising Simons Foundation Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more at 560 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 3: hsfoundation dot org, the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, 561 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 3: and the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the frontlines 562 00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 3: of social change worldwide. 563 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 2: This is your opportunity, Lydia, to switch into the English 564 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:07,919 Speaker 2: channel of your brain.