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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 2: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and

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Speaker 2: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling railvalry. No, no, sibling.

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Speaker 2: You don't do that with your mouth. Revelry. That's good.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's why. That's how I feel. Right, I'm hungry.

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Speaker 2: I'm hungry because I am intermittent fasting once again. I've

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Speaker 2: got problems. You know. It's like I go in these

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Speaker 2: waves of work out intermitt fast, like be healthy, and

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Speaker 2: then you know, fall off into some hit. But I

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Speaker 2: went to the Lakers game last night. It was so

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Speaker 2: much fun and I'm not drinking during the week. This

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Speaker 2: is my new thing. But then you go to the

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Speaker 2: Lakers game, Like, how am I not going to have

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Speaker 2: some beers? You know what I mean, It's like an

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Speaker 2: impossibility not to and I did, and then you have

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Speaker 2: two beers and then you know, I'm with Kate, my assist,

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Speaker 2: and she's like, let's have let's have a martini. I'm

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Speaker 2: like yeah, and then it's halftime and then it's like

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Speaker 2: do you want another martini? I'm like yeah, and then

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Speaker 2: you know we finished the martini and we have some

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Speaker 2: cool food, and then Kate's like, you know, should we

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Speaker 2: do another one. I'm like, yeah, I'll just do a

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Speaker 2: course light. And then I'm like, what the fuck am

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Speaker 2: I doing? Anyway? And then I came home and it

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Speaker 2: was great. And it was my son's birthday yesterday, Bodie.

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Speaker 2: It was fifteen, and it's my little man. And I'll

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Speaker 2: talk about all that later. Anyway, We've got Carrie Burke

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Speaker 2: waiting in our waiting room. I'm excited to talk to her. Interesting.

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Speaker 2: She hit me up and she's got multiple books, I

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Speaker 2: think multiple bestsellers. She's got another book coming out, and

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Speaker 2: she's a young buck who is tackling the issues of anxiety,

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Speaker 2: which is just very cool to hear something from her

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Speaker 2: perspective at this age, assuming, of course, she's probably gone

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Speaker 2: through it herself. It's very timely. As anyone who's listening

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Speaker 2: to my podcast, you know, they know that I've been

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Speaker 2: through my fair share of shit. So let's commiserate, let's experience,

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Speaker 2: and let's try to be impactful and figure some shit out.

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Speaker 2: So bring her up. Hey, Hi, how are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm good, Nice to meet you.

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Speaker 2: Nice to meet you too. Where are you looks city

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Speaker 2: like you and in New York?

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Speaker 1: I'm in New York.

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Speaker 2: Are you born and raised New York?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Family, siblings, have siblings? No siblings, No siblings.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm a little sad about it, but are you?

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Speaker 1: I am? I feel like I wanted like a best

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Speaker 1: friend growing up. I had to learn independent all by myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and did you ever give your parents shit about it?

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Speaker 1: No? I feel like I only really got mad about

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Speaker 1: it when I kind of turned eighteen and I realized

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Speaker 1: that I didn't really grow into my own because I

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Speaker 1: didn't have like an older sister to look up to

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Speaker 1: or an older brother to look up to. Them about

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Speaker 1: it when I got older. But back then it was

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Speaker 1: really nice because I got all the attention.

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Speaker 2: Of course, But you can blame all of your problems

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Speaker 2: on your parents now, because if they had only given

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Speaker 2: you a sibling, you would be You would be perfect,

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Speaker 2: you would have no mental health issues, you would not

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Speaker 2: be ailing in any way whatsoever because you had a

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Speaker 2: partner in crime. So at least you have that excuse.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: I have no excuse. I have no excuse. We have

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Speaker 2: I have siblings, I've got siblings. Well, thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for hitting me up. You know, I've obviously, you know,

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Speaker 2: talked about my anxiety, you know issues growing up. First

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Speaker 2: started in my twenties, and it was you know, I've

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Speaker 2: talked about it before, but it was almost like having

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Speaker 2: a heart attack, went down to a knee, not understanding

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Speaker 2: what it was. Thought I was dying on the streets

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Speaker 2: of Hollywood, you know, and that sort of began the

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Speaker 2: journey of a bit of self discovery, of course, because

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Speaker 2: we're trying to figure out where why this has happened,

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Speaker 2: where it comes from, and why it's happened. I went

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Speaker 2: and I did all the tests. I mean, I thought

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Speaker 2: I was dying, you know, it's heart this that okay,

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Speaker 2: And then meditation, journaling in my first bout anyway, sort

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Speaker 2: of got me through it, but there was still this

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Speaker 2: residual feeling of just unease. And then I went on

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Speaker 2: SELEXA and then after that I've had sort of two

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Speaker 2: more pretty gnarly bouts of it, all the while sort

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Speaker 2: of living with you know, some low grade stuff. But

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Speaker 2: as you know, we learn how to manage it, the

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Speaker 2: feeling becomes a little bit more normalized. It doesn't get

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Speaker 2: as scary. So I'm glad to have you on. And

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Speaker 2: how old are you? Were? Twenties, early twenties, twenty two,

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Speaker 2: twenty two and you're prolific, meaning how many books have

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Speaker 2: you written already twenty two? Are you shitting me? I'm

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Speaker 2: not shitting you, Okay, So explain how this happen because

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Speaker 2: it's such a young age. Yes, how are you even?

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Speaker 2: How did you even develop that the work ethic? You

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Speaker 2: know what, I mean? To sit down and start writing books,

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Speaker 2: your executive functioning must be off the charts.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. I think I've just had such

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Speaker 1: a passion for writing since I was a little girl.

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Speaker 1: So the majority of the books I wrote previously were

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Speaker 1: with my mom. I wrote children's books growing up with her,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of how I got into it. But

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Speaker 1: as I've grown older and kind of when the pandemic hit,

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Speaker 1: I really decided to come into my own as a

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Speaker 1: writer and come out with my first solo debut book.

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Speaker 1: So I'd written about all these children's book topics before,

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Speaker 1: but I wanted to write about things that are more

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Speaker 1: pertinent to me and my generation, and also just do

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Speaker 1: something that matters and write about topics that matter. So

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Speaker 1: my first book was about romance and and kind of

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Speaker 1: how I learned how to navigate those tricky waters as

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Speaker 1: a teenager in dating in New York City, because it

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Speaker 1: is very tough. And I talk a lot in the

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Speaker 1: book about how once I went through my whole anxiety

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Speaker 1: journey and I found self love, That's really when I

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Speaker 1: felt like I could find a partner, and that's what

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Speaker 1: really resonated the most with people in that first book.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of took that and ran with it,

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Speaker 1: and that's what brought me to write my latest book,

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Speaker 1: which is called The Mind Fire.

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Speaker 2: So when you wrote the first book Pandemic, you're twenty two.

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Speaker 2: So are we looking at like eighteen nineteen years old?

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Speaker 2: Is this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So I was class of twenty twenty. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have from or graduation or anything like that, so it

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Speaker 1: was a really tough year for my entire class.

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Speaker 2: I bet I want to get into all that, but first,

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Speaker 2: you're writing a book about romance and finding love at

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Speaker 2: such a young age, which is interesting because these are

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Speaker 2: sort of our exploratory years when, of course we want

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Speaker 2: to find someone we love a partner, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm forty eight, but I remember when year when I

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Speaker 2: was eighteen or nineteen years old. You know, the world

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Speaker 2: is our sort of oyster minus anxiety, minus the things

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Speaker 2: that are holding us back from experiencing the world as

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Speaker 2: we want to. But it's really interesting that you're writing

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Speaker 2: a book about love and romance for this generation. It's

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Speaker 2: interesting what I haven't read it about? What angles are

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Speaker 2: you taking? You know what I mean? Because it's not

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Speaker 2: for a forever thing. I mean maybe it is, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, how are you boiling that down to your demographic?

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Speaker 1: So I like to call it the gen z. Sex

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Speaker 1: in the City I was named after Kerrie Bradshaw. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I was kind of destined to write this.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. No, I did an episode of Sex

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Speaker 2: in the City.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool.

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Speaker 2: Was just on Kristin Davis. I just did her podcast yesterday.

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Speaker 2: This is with her yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Sex and the City is literally in

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Speaker 1: my blood. My mom looked at the the HBO website

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Speaker 1: for Sex and the City when I was born, so

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Speaker 1: she wanted to name me Carrie, and everyone was like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you can't. Can't name her Carrie. That's too embarrassing. Because

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Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica was pregnant at the same time with her son.

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Speaker 1: So she named me Caroline and I go by Carrie.

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Speaker 1: Funny enough, and I write about this in my book.

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Speaker 1: When I was twelve, I became friends with her son. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea who she was, Like, my mom

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Speaker 1: didn't introduce me to sex and the City until I

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Speaker 1: was of age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So one day she was dropping me off at a

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Speaker 1: playdate with the Sun and she opened the door and

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Speaker 1: it was Sarah Jessica. Oh my god, Oh wow, you

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Speaker 1: have no idea this this woman inspired your name. And

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Speaker 1: I just had no idea at the time. It was

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Speaker 1: just one of my good friends.

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Speaker 2: Wow. That must have been shocking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was a very nice house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we knew something was up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean I was a fan of Ferris Bueller. I

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Speaker 1: saw Roderick and I was like, oh my god, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: that's Sarah Jessica Parker.

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Speaker 2: You're like, great, but I don't care. It's it's it's

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Speaker 2: Fairest Bueller.

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Speaker 1: Cooler a swimming pool. Yeah that was crazy. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: back to your question. Yeah, why I'm writing about love

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Speaker 1: at et So I feel like there were not a

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Speaker 1: lot of books out there written by a teenager four

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Speaker 1: teenagers talking about that topic. And even though it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily you finding your forever person at age eighteen, I

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Speaker 1: mean maybe, but likely not. These are really important formative

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Speaker 1: years of our lives. You might be falling in love

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Speaker 1: for the first time, getting your heart broken for the

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Speaker 1: first time, and people don't really have a guide on

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Speaker 1: how to navigate that beyond a wiki how or like

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Speaker 1: data that scientists posts or anything like that, or like experts.

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Speaker 1: It's not coming from the source and someone who's going

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Speaker 1: through it. So I took my skills as a writer

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Speaker 1: and my knowledge as just an eighteen year old girl

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Speaker 1: and use that to write a book.

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Speaker 2: Did you have experience though, with heartbreak, with love, with rejection,

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Speaker 2: with all of that? Were you writing from a place

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Speaker 2: of experience or was you were okay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: Not to say that you can't write from a place

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Speaker 2: from an outside perspective, you know, but if you had

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Speaker 2: experience with some of these things, then it can resonate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I wrote about getting my heartbroken, falling

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Speaker 1: on for the first time, and then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: it's just a fun read because growing up New York

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Speaker 1: City and dating, growing up as a social media influencer

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Speaker 1: at eighteen and dating all social media TikTok world. I

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Speaker 1: have some really funny, interesting stories and people wanted to

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Speaker 1: read it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so great. My son is seventeen and he's

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Speaker 2: had a girlfriend for two years fifteen when they got together,

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Speaker 2: and it's real, you know, it's real love. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it's really interesting to watch him mature because of it.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're no longer just responsible for yourself and

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Speaker 2: your feelings. You know, you have to take into account

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Speaker 2: someone else's feelings. There's a ton of sacrifice, you know,

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Speaker 2: where he wants to do something with his friend, but

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Speaker 2: you know, he's made plans with his girl, and it's

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Speaker 2: really amazing to watch him sort of navigate that and

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Speaker 2: to see his maturity levels just sort of rise. I

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Speaker 2: was similar. I was fifteen fourteen, I met my high

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Speaker 2: school girlfriend and she was my high school sweetheart through

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Speaker 2: all of high school, you know, and I love that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really amazing to sort of fill in

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Speaker 2: that gap because I'm not sure I've ever heard of

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Speaker 2: anyone writing about young love that way, and that's why

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Speaker 2: I to fill me Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. So

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Speaker 2: let's go to your anxiety let's talk about that for

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Speaker 2: a second, because fun stuff. Yes, it's amazing I found though,

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, you know, I was, I'm forty eight.

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Speaker 2: I was twenty three or twenty four when I first

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Speaker 2: had my bout right right, And it wasn't necessarily of course,

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Speaker 2: technology wasn't what it is now. Everything wasn't right in

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Speaker 2: our hands, you know, and we were inundated with algorithms,

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Speaker 2: so it wasn't necessarily at the forefront of things where

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Speaker 2: anxiety right now is almost hot like ADHD and anxiety

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Speaker 2: are hot right now, you know. And my son actually

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Speaker 2: went through it, Wilder, who I was telling you about.

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Speaker 2: My mother went through it the same age that I did,

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Speaker 2: you know. So I think there's some sort of a

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Speaker 2: genetic component to it, which I don't know if that's

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Speaker 2: scientifically proven or not, but but nowadays right so, but

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Speaker 2: I would talk about it, never was afraid to express

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Speaker 2: how I was feeling, and it was really comforting to

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Speaker 2: hear people give it back to me and saying, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm going through that. I go through that. I've been

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Speaker 2: through that, you know. So for you to write a

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Speaker 2: book about it, your experiences with it, the people that

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Speaker 2: it's probably going to reach help. It's tremendous. But talk

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Speaker 2: about sort of how this happened, what age, How did

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Speaker 2: you know it was anxiety?

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So I was very similar to you. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know it was anxiety. I thought I was dying

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Speaker 1: at the time. I thought it was COVID because it's

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Speaker 1: the middle of COVID. So I had a panic attack

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Speaker 1: one night, basically just couldn't breathe, my hands were shaking,

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Speaker 1: I was sweating, just cookie cutter panic attack. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what it was. So I went to the

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Speaker 1: doctor next day and got a COVID test and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't COVID, And my mom said, this sounds like it's anxiety.

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Speaker 1: And to me, anxiety was the same thing as stressed.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was like the butterflies i'd get before

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Speaker 1: a test at school. I never really understood what anxiety

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Speaker 1: was until I started to experience it frequently. So I

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Speaker 1: would get those panic attacks a lot, most likely as

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Speaker 1: a result of just eating, sleeping, and breathing as an

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl being isolated in her adulting years,

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Speaker 1: and it was just really tough. And one day I

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Speaker 1: was at a pumpkin patch with one of my friends,

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Speaker 1: and she told me that she also had anxiety, but

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Speaker 1: to the point where she cut herself and she showed

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Speaker 1: me her wrists, and that image of her wrists stuck

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Speaker 1: in my mind for a really long time, and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't let go of that image. And I was convinced

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Speaker 1: that if I had anxiety and she had anxiety, then

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Speaker 1: I was destined to end up like her. And I

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Speaker 1: couldn't shake that thought, and eventually it just became such

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Speaker 1: an overwhelming intrusive thought because I didn't want to hurt myself.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't necessarily a logical thought. For some reason, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't let go of it. So one day I just

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Speaker 1: collapsed over my peloton bike, started crying and said, I

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Speaker 1: can't take this anymore, like I have to get help.

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Speaker 1: So I went to see a therapist, and my therapist

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Speaker 1: told me that it was OCD, and same thing. I

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Speaker 1: did not know what OCD was beyond what we see

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Speaker 1: in the media, which is keeping your pencils in order,

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Speaker 1: excessive cleaning. I didn't really understand that OCD can really

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Speaker 1: be mental, an intense mental rumination that is debilitating. So

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Speaker 1: it took time and a lot of education into the

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Speaker 1: world of OCD and anxiety, and throughout it all, I

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Speaker 1: was writing these diary entries to kind of make sense

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Speaker 1: of everything, nothing that I ever wanted to publish, just

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Speaker 1: to kind of help me make sense of what was

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Speaker 1: going on inside my mind. And I turned a corner

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Speaker 1: probably about two years into it, so twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: when I realized it wasn't going to get better. And

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Speaker 1: it's okay to admit that, because anxiety doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: finish line. We don't strive towards being cured or anything.

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Speaker 1: We just strive towards being stronger so that when it

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Speaker 1: comes up, we know how to tackle it better. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of when I started to learn a

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Speaker 1: lot more and I looked back at these diary entries

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Speaker 1: and it was really, I think maybe twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: or beginning of twenty twenty four, when I started piecing

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Speaker 1: the entries together and I realized that I was at

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Speaker 1: a point where I felt confident enough in my anxiety

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Speaker 1: to publish them. But I didn't want to just publish

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Speaker 1: them as personal essays. I wanted to put them into

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Speaker 1: a book, because again, there's a gap out there. There's

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Speaker 1: not enough people who are in their twenties talking about

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Speaker 1: their anxiety. There's the data, there's the scientists. You can

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Speaker 1: read all that, but it's so much more powerful to

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Speaker 1: read from someone who's going through it that you can

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Speaker 1: relate to.

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Speaker 2: To help me feel less alone.

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Speaker 1: That's a long winded version of how mine came to be.

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Speaker 2: No, no, not at all. It was not at all long winded.

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Speaker 2: But I wonder. So you had that first panic attack

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Speaker 2: not knowing what it was, and it's scary shit because

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Speaker 2: it's like I'm dying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the worst.

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Speaker 2: So once you were able to come to terms with

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Speaker 2: the fact that you weren't dying, it still doesn't get

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Speaker 2: better until you actually dig in and live with it

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Speaker 2: and then begin to understand that it's just a feeling. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to kill you, and then sort of

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Speaker 2: disassociating yourself from you as the human and your anxiety,

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Speaker 2: meaning you are not your anxiety, you just have it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was in Did you do cognitive behavioral therapy?

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Speaker 2: Is that what you were doing? Or?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, cognitive therapy and also exposure and response prevention therapy

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Speaker 1: for my own city. So for example, like closing my

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Speaker 1: eyes and envisioning the intrusive thought. Really living it and

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Speaker 1: imagining it in vivid detail in order to desensitize yourself

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Speaker 1: to me is super hard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet so. But when how did it manifest

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Speaker 2: itself after that first sort of panic attack on the

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Speaker 2: from day on, like the day to day on the

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Speaker 2: daily you know, how is your how is it manifesting itself?

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Speaker 1: Well, before the pumpkin patch, it was all physical. It

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Speaker 1: was just me sweating, shaking. I would like drop my

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Speaker 1: breakfast on the floor because my hands were shaking so much. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I was having trouble breathing, just shallow breaths. And then

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Speaker 1: after the pumpkin patch, it kind of flipped a switch

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Speaker 1: and it was purely mental rumination. So I had managed

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Speaker 1: to convince myself that because I had anxiety, I was

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Speaker 1: destined to hurt myself, and I was just like waiting

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Speaker 1: for waiting for something to give, Like I didn't trust

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Speaker 1: myself anymore because I felt like I saw this image

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Speaker 1: in my future and I was convinced that, like I

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Speaker 1: was going to get there even though I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to get there. And it was just me logicing through

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Speaker 1: that thought over and over again every day, so I

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Speaker 1: would I would literally sit and look at my ceiling

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Speaker 1: and go, I'm really confused. I don't know why I'm

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Speaker 1: having this thought. I don't want to hurt myself, but

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Speaker 1: I can't stop thinking about it. So what do I do?

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Speaker 1: I don't want to hurt myself because XYZ, so I

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Speaker 1: just like logic through it, and once I reached a

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Speaker 1: point of resolution, five minutes later, it would start all

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Speaker 1: over again. And that's what OCD is. You're obsessing over

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Speaker 1: the thought. You're performing the compulsion by telling yourself why

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Speaker 1: the thought isn't true. And by doing that, it's like

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Speaker 1: filling a cup with a hole in it. You're just

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Speaker 1: going to eat that over and over again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you can't stop. That's the frustrating part

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Speaker 2: where it's like, oh, just like Carrie, stop fucking thinking

365
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Speaker 2: about it, you know what I mean. But it's it's

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Speaker 2: you can't And.

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Speaker 1: The number of times I heard that too, like when

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Speaker 1: I first told my mom.

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Speaker 2: Of course, just stop thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just stop thinking about it. Think of something else

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Speaker 1: you don't like. It's that girl in school that's bullying you.

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Speaker 1: Why can't you like imagine being so mad at her?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, you don't understand, Like, the reason

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Speaker 1: why I'm latching onto this thought is because it's something

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Speaker 1: I value. I value my life. OCD latches onto things

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Speaker 1: that you care about and that are of most value

377
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Speaker 1: to you. And at the time the pandemic, I value living.

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Speaker 1: I wanted my life back, So of course that's what

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Speaker 1: my OCD latched onto.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And how did how did it affect your

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Speaker 2: sort of daily life? Because if it went from that

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Speaker 2: physical to those just ruminations, were you able to live

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Speaker 2: a normal existence? Of course it was COVID, but you know,

384
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Speaker 2: were you able to sort of you know, walk around

385
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Speaker 2: do your thing? And yes, you're ruminating, but it wasn't

386
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Speaker 2: physical like and I'm asking this because for me, it

387
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Speaker 2: was physical, you know what I mean. Like in the

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Speaker 2: first bout, it was stomach like I would throw up,

389
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Speaker 2: you know, I would go if I walked outside, I

390
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Speaker 2: would throw up there. And that I wasn't bree I

391
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 2: was shallow breath. I'd have be having sex with my wife,

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Speaker 2: and it was just kind of like you got to

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Speaker 2: get off, like I couldn't function from a physical standpoint.

394
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Speaker 2: And then of course it changed. In my last bout,

395
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Speaker 2: it was it was it was very different, which was

396
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 2: about five years ago, you know, But did it affect

397
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 2: your your walk around, your daily existence.

398
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, but different in the sense that people may not

399
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: have known as much as maybe for you, like if

400
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: you were physically vomiting and saw that. So, yes, I

401
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: was struggling, but nobody, nobody knew. I just wasn't I

402
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: wasn't present. I was going about my day to day

403
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: life at the time. I was blowing up on TikTok.

404
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: So on the outside, it looked like I had this

405
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: massive success, I was making money. It looked like everything

406
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: was wonderful, But I was not present. I felt depersonalized.

407
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: I would be walking around and my surroundings would be blurry.

408
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: So I would be functioning and I would be there,

409
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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't really be there.

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Speaker 2: It's that disassociation where you don't feel real. And that's

411
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Speaker 2: what my son said to me when it first started.

412
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 2: He's like, Dad, I just don't feel real. Yeah, and

413
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Speaker 2: I get that, where you're just like, what universe am

414
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: I living in?

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00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Almost like

416
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: you're on the outside looking in on yourself. Yeah, take

417
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: yourself out of it, but you can't.

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Speaker 2: I am on lexaproo. Yeah are you? Are you on lexapro? Yeah?

419
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: So and it helped. And my last bout was when

420
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,719
Speaker 2: I tried to wean off of it and I did

421
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Speaker 2: it properly.

422
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Speaker 1: It's so hard.

423
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Speaker 2: Oh I did it. I thought I did it properly,

424
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Speaker 2: and I was just like, you know what, I don't

425
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Speaker 2: think I need this anymore. I mean, I feel good,

426
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 2: so let me just you know, not really knowing why,

427
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: I was just like I just don't want to be

428
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Speaker 2: on it and I don't even know why. But I

429
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 2: did it, and oh man, it fucked me up big time.

430
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Speaker 1: I tried to. I think I went down like five

431
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Speaker 1: milligrams like a time bit. Yeah, a total freak out.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like I'm not doing this.

433
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: Nope, Yeah I did it. I started like this is

434
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: a few years back, but I started in maybe May,

435
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: in March and or you know, actually February started my

436
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: wien process. And then once I hit the summer months,

437
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: I was a fucking basket case. But I was still

438
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,239
Speaker 2: fighting and I'm like I'm going to get through this.

439
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna fucking do it. And

440
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: then I get a call of like they want you

441
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: to do this TV show in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and

442
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, I can't. I can't go work like this,

443
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: Like this would be insane, you know what I mean?

444
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 2: So I said, fuck it. I guess I just go

445
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: back on you know, yeah, go back on it.

446
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: It's there's no shame in taking medication. Obviously it's not everything,

447
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: and not everybody needs it, but it certainly helps, and

448
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: especially if you're someone who's debilitated by something like anxiety

449
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: or OCD, it just takes the edge off. It's not

450
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: a cure all, but it helps you be a little

451
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 1: a bit better functioning of a human.

452
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 2: Where are you at right now with all of it?

453
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 2: You know? I mean, are you pretty stable or do

454
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: you still have now that you are on lexapro or

455
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: are you are you just cool all the time.

456
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: So the difference with the lexapro is my physical symptoms

457
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: are reduced, so I think anxiety and intrusive thoughts are

458
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: pretty constant. I'm going to live with them my whole life.

459
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: It is as someone with OCD, like they're just going

460
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: to stick, and it is what it is. Difference though,

461
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: is I can have these intrusive thoughts every day and

462
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: Sure they suck and I'm annoyed by them, but they're

463
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: not debilitating. So every time I get a thought every day,

464
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: I'm not panicking anymore. I'm not sitting there crying. Sometimes,

465
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: like maybe every other month, sure i'll have a panic

466
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: attack or I'll get really upset that an intrusive thought

467
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: is still there. But the difference is I'm not sitting

468
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: there every day ruminating over a thought, crying about it.

469
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: I see the thought in my head and I go, Okay,

470
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: I know you're not real. Yeah, it really sucks you're there,

471
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: but I know what you are, and we're going to

472
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: move on. We're not going to react. We're going to

473
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: separate this thought from the feelings of fear and sadness

474
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: that are attached to it and just move on with

475
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: my life.

476
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: Is that part of the process that you have developed,

477
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: sort of the tools that you have in your toolbox?

478
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the toolbox metaphor. It's a toolbox.

479
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: I know it's so colorny, but it's like there's a

480
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: visual component to it that I strangely like. You know,

481
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: it's definitely overused, but you know, because you can pull

482
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 2: the wrench out of the screen, I don't know. It's

483
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 2: like there's a visual that I like about it totally works.

484
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: But yeah, I thought from feeling so that when the

485
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: thoughts arise, your emotions aren't too attached to them. I

486
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: think is important. Exercise. I'm a big runner.

487
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: That's huge, by the way. I mean exercise is big.

488
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: I mean even from a clinical standpoint. When you read

489
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 2: about depression anxiety from doctors, from medical professionals, at the

490
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: top of the list before medication is exercise. I mean,

491
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: you know, E, diet, exercise huge.

492
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: I feel like we hear it everywhere, but it's so true.

493
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: During the pandemic, I got into running, and I didn't

494
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: just want to do like a quick three miles like

495
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: I was a total psycho. I fell in love with running.

496
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: I thought that when I was out on the road

497
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: and I was just running forever, everything like went away,

498
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 1: all the thoughts went away, if only for like an

499
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: hour or two, and I craved that feeling. So I

500
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: was in the Hamptons during the pandemic and it was

501
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: this long road and I just kept running and running

502
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: and running until I got to the end. And then

503
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 1: I turned back and one day it was like seven

504
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: miles and I came home and I'm like, I'm going

505
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: to become a runner. I'm going to run a half marathon.

506
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: And my mom was so mad. She's like, You're gonna

507
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: get hurt. This is really stupid and no, no, no, Uh.

508
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: Turns out I ran a half marathon.

509
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: I did get you did I did?

510
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: I struck fractured both my shins.

511
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

512
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I had no training.

513
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: Like I was. You just went for it.

514
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: I was just going. I was running every day. I

515
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: was in the wrong shoes, I wasn't cooling whatever. I

516
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: was destined to get hurt.

517
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: She was right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But now.

518
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: I just ran my fifth half marathon he did Sunday.

519
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my friend Alex just did too. In New York.

520
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: I did half.

521
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah he did the half. Yeah right right. We just

522
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: had the LA Marathon. Was here too last Sunday.

523
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw that.

524
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: I shall try it. Yes, I mean, but I'm like

525
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: a three miler, you know what I mean, Like I

526
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: do it for workout, and I do love it because

527
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: you do get into that meditative sort of pattern, that

528
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 2: runner's sort of focus. It takes me about a mile

529
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: the first mile. I fucking hate it. Yeah, I'm just like, ah,

530
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: I hate and then you get into that zone. Yeah,

531
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: but I'm like you sometimes, well, d now that I'm

532
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: even thinking about this, it was during my anxiety, I

533
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: would just go and I would run, and before I

534
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: knew it, I was like thirteen miles, you know, and

535
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? You know?

536
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: And I still got to go home home, so I'd

537
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: get an uber home because I was just so in

538
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: the sort of locked in moment, and then I'd wake

539
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: up and just my body was devastated. But in the moment,

540
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: I wasn't even thinking, you know.

541
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,959
Speaker 1: I actually I write in my book about how when

542
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: I ran a marathon in twenty twenty two full and

543
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: I had a panic attack at mile twenty No marathon,

544
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: and it was just the worst timing. Some like random

545
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: family member that I don't even talk to, like I'm

546
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: not trying to be with, was at the other side

547
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: of the bridge that I had the panic attack on,

548
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: and he helped me through it, like he stood there

549
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: and helped me breathe. And it was just the most

550
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: miserable end to the marathon.

551
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

552
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: So I vowed to myself that I would do it.

553
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: Again one day, I would my redemption. If I got

554
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: a panic attack, I'd know how to handle it.

555
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

556
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: I did it again in November and I started to

557
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: panic at like a mile thirteen and I call my

558
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: boyfriend and I'm like, this is not about to happen,

559
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: Like you got to talk me through. This helped me

560
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: breathe for a mile on the phone and I was

561
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: like soaring to the ad and I was.

562
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: Great, Wow, So what do you what do you attribute

563
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: that to? You know, the first one maybe the second

564
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: one is almost like Pavlovian in a weird way. It's,

565
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: you know, because anxiety creates anxiety creates anxiety, as you know, right,

566
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: I mean I have I used to be anxious about

567
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 2: getting anxious. Yeah, And that's that's how that's how we roll.

568
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: And anyone who has anxiety can completely understand that. You know,

569
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: oh my god, am I am I going to have

570
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: a panic attack? Am I going to Am I going

571
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: to be anxious? And all of a sudden that just

572
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: creates it. So was that sort of the second panic

573
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: attack was like, you know, I don't want to I'm

574
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: railing against it so much, and the fuck here it comes.

575
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: I think it's valid to be anxious about being anxious.

576
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: I honestly think it was mile thirteen. I started to

577
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: get tired, and that made me and because I realized

578
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: that I had another thirteen miles to go, and I

579
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: felt like I could lay down and take a nap already.

580
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: So then I started freaking out. So it did out

581
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: of nowhere. I was just like, oh, I'm really tired,

582
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: my legs are starting to hurt. This is gonna be

583
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: it fish And then it kind of stacks together.

584
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: Do you do you drink like alcohol or alcohol?

585
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: I don't drink.

586
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: Not crazy, Yeah, well, I mean I do, but but

587
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 2: I was just I was, you know, correlating sort of

588
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: drinking to your anxiety where it can just it can

589
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: just exacerbate it, you know what I mean. It's horrible.

590
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: Rarely do I drink. Yeah, yeah, not much of a drinker.

591
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't really good help anxiety. I don't like the

592
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: thaks of it. Yeah.

593
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: And so you said you have a boyfriend, Yeah, okay,

594
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: how has he dealt with that or is it even

595
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: an issue? You know? And I asked that because when

596
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 2: I got together with who's now my wife, you know, Aaron,

597
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: I was twenty four years old, and she was right

598
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: in the middle of my insanity and she didn't She

599
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: was very supportive, but didn't understand it. You know, She's like,

600
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 2: I don't get it. You know, you come from an

601
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 2: amazing family. You know, everything is great in your life, Like,

602
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: what the fuck is wrong with you? You know?

603
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: So you had to teach her about it.

604
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: But a little bit. But I had to teach myself too,

605
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: so we kind of learned together at that point. I

606
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: had no idea. I'm like, I don't know, like I

607
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: get that, but I'm here's what. I'm crying in the

608
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: shower because I can't leave the house. So that's my reality.

609
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but it is what it is.

610
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: You know.

611
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: That's so valid. I feel like it's a learning curve

612
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: with any significant other if you lives with intense anxiety

613
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: and are medicated for it. I write about this too

614
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: in my book. I think at the very end when

615
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: when I met my boyfriend, I told him about it

616
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: pretty early on, but I don't think he really understood

617
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: until he saw it. I was having an intrusive thought

618
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: and I felt so guilty about it that I just

619
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: like completely broke down, like probably one of the worst

620
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: panic attacks i've ever had, because I was just humiliated,

621
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: like here was this first like great love, like someone

622
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: I could actually see a future with, and I felt

623
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: so broken and I broke down. I was crying. I'm like,

624
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: I'm just too broken to love you. He goes, Carrie,

625
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: We're all a little fucked up, and I'm like that's like,

626
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: that's so mean. And then now we laugh about it,

627
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you are so right, like we're all

628
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: a little fucked up.

629
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: I love your boyfriend, because that's my fucking motto, the

630
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 2: same I always say. I was like, we're all fun up.

631
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: We are all fucked up. Every human on this earth

632
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: has some sort of issue. We're all fine, you know.

633
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: I think it's like a guy mindset, just like easy going.

634
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: It is what it is. But yeah, he made me

635
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: stand up because I was like on my knees crying

636
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: and he like sat next to me, helped me breathe first,

637
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: and then once I got my breath back, he made

638
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: me stand in front of the mirror and like repeat

639
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: like things to myself, like you are okay, Everything's going

640
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: to be okay. I am. I am like fine, I'm beautiful,

641
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: I'm special, like and I felt so stupid. But he's

642
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: so good and he's done a really great job in

643
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: trying to understand because there is really such a learning curve.

644
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: Nobody learns about anxiety and OCD in the way that

645
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: a lot of people experience it, which is in such

646
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: a debilitating way. He said to me the other day

647
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: that he saw OCD like represented on TV and it

648
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: was like the cleaning and stuff, and he laughed at

649
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: it and he's like, these people have no idea, and

650
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: he's like, I never would have even thought about that

651
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: before I met you, Like, thank you for opening my eyes.

652
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: I feel like I've learned so much. And that's something

653
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: that I look for in someone, like someone who really

654
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: understands you and makes an effort to learn if they

655
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: don't understand. Yeah, I'm very grateful.

656
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: And what are his problems?

657
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm like breaking down. I'm like, you're so perfect. Do

658
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: you have any the other way? Tell me you something.

659
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 2: Right, exactly exactly? Please have a panic attack?

660
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, make me go alone.

661
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about your book. We've touched upon it

662
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: a little bit, but why don't you just give us

663
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 2: a little, uh sort of overview.

664
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: Yes, So my story which I told you. I obviously

665
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: tell my in the book, but this is a roadmap

666
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: for anyone who is struggling with their mental health and

667
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: just looking to feel less alone. I'm not going to

668
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: tell people why their thoughts aren't true or try to

669
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: disprove anything. I mentioned in Mindfire that relatability is so

670
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: much more powerful than reassurance that you get in anxiety.

671
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: Reading this, I hope people just what are you laughing

672
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: at me?

673
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 2: For No, I'm laughing because I'm connecting with that. It's

674
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: so fucking true. Relatability is way more powerful than someone

675
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: trying to sort of fix it or say the right thing,

676
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: because it's like you don't get it. Yeah, yeah, like

677
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: you're gonna be okay. It's like, shut the fuck up.

678
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. The number of times my mom has literally said

679
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: to me, you're fine, it's so yes, Hey, you're gonna

680
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: be okay, And I'm like, that just doesn't help.

681
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: Na, I know, I know.

682
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: So each chapter in the book is dedicated to a

683
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: different emotion that you experience when you're going through anxiety

684
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: or whatever mental health struggle you might have. So there's loneliness, restlessness,

685
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: I talk about heartbreak, I talk about grief, and losing

686
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: my grandma for the first time, and how that was

687
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: unique because I had to attend a funeral while having

688
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: these intrusive thoughts about death and that sucked. So I

689
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: talk about lots of stuff, and my main hope is

690
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: that people read this and they're able to relate in

691
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: a way that they might not necessarily be able to

692
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: relate to statistics that are out There really are no

693
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: people that are my age telling their stories in a raw,

694
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: authentic manner that people can relate to.

695
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: Is it anecdotal? Are you giving your own experiences based

696
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: on these chapter headings?

697
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's memoir, so it's got it like there's a

698
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: story in every chapter, but also little self help boxes

699
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: along the way. So I interviewed real life therapists and

700
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: I have them give definitions along the way of real

701
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: therapy terms. So depersonalization intrusive thought because, like I said,

702
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: education is so important. I want to have the relatability piece,

703
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: but I also want people to learn a little something along.

704
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: That's great. And is it geared towards your age group,

705
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 2: demographic or is it? Of course it's universal. There's no

706
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: doubt about that. Anxiety is universal. I mean, as I said,

707
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 2: my kid Wilder was seventeen, but he was thirteen or

708
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: fourteen at the time, and I could relate to it

709
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 2: as a forty eight year old dude, you know what

710
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: I mean. So it spans all demographics, but as far

711
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 2: as dealing with it, as far as sort of you know,

712
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: the way that your outlook from your perspective as a

713
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: twenty two year old. Is the book geared towards that.

714
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: So it's catered to people who are going through their

715
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: adulting era, I like to say, in their twenties. So yes,

716
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: it's catered to people in their twenties. But to be honest, like,

717
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: these topics are so universal. I feel like anyone at

718
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: any age who has anxiety can relate to the feeling

719
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: of being lonely and feeling lonely in it, or feeling

720
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: restless or feeling angry. So these emotions apply to everyone.

721
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: The anecdotes are just from me growing up and twenty something.

722
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 2: That's so great. Pre order the book.

723
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: Yes, helps authors a lot. I will say I'm not

724
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: making a penny off this book, Like I will straight up,

725
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm not making any money off this book. I'm literally

726
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: just promoting the shit out of it because I think

727
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: it has the potential to reach so many people and

728
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: help so many people, and pre order kind of helps

729
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: authors boost their platforms. Yeah, that's why I'm doing this.

730
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 2: Like mind Fire, it's about the money. Well, then let's

731
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 2: pre order this shit mind Fire, reorder it. Here it is,

732
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 2: and I show it.

733
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: I have it, nobody else has it.

734
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: But look at look at you with the photo shoot.

735
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: Huh you know who shot this cover. Have you ever

736
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: seen this next top model? Yeah, Nigel Barker.

737
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, I know that guy. That's amazing,

738
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: so iconic.

739
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: He convinced me not to wear much makeup in it.

740
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: He could do that. Give me my fake lashes, give

741
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: me full glam.

742
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: No, I know, it's kind of great. You're like, make

743
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 2: me look sexy as shit in the cover of an

744
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 2: anxiety book.

745
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's like, no, no heavy makeup. Yeah, zoom

746
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: in on your face. We're gonna see like the wrinkle.

747
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know about that, but sure, no, laugh,

748
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: we'll settle on that.

749
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: Well, I need one. I want to read this, I

750
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: really do. I've read a million books, you know, on anxiety,

751
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: but I would love to I would love to take

752
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: a peek at this for sure.

753
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: We have to get you one.

754
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, send me one. I will definitely.

755
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: You will get an advanced copy. This is the advanced copy.

756
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: I want the advanced copy.

757
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: Nobody has this right now but me, my boyfriends finally

758
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: get to read it. Okay, my dad, that's about it.

759
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: Well, when you are ready, you send that to me.

760
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: I definitely want to read it and before we get

761
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: out of your mind fire just I mean, I get it.

762
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 2: But how did that come about the title?

763
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's funny. Originally the title was going to

764
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: be Diary of an Anxious twenty something, which is the subtitle,

765
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: and I wanted something a little bit like snappier and

766
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: more catchy. So I liked Girl on Fire. When you're

767
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: going through anxiety, it feels like your brain's on fire.

768
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: YE want to put the fire out, like girl on Fire.

769
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 1: But then I was like, no, that's too similar relisia keys.

770
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: So then I brain on fire, brain sad clinical, Ye,

771
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: mind on fire, and then I cut the on im

772
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: like mind fire because it's coining a new term.

773
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: Love it. I think it's great. Send me your other

774
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: one too, I will. I don't know, so I'm a

775
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 2: you know, I'm an actor, but I also produce. I

776
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: have a deal at Fox, and there's I don't know.

777
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: I want to read these because I as we've been talking,

778
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: there's something here in the TV space, I think.

779
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: So the reason why I hit you up this is

780
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: pretty embarrassing. So I was watching The Voice one of

781
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: my best friends on the Boys, and I saw your

782
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: sister on the Voice. Someone's like, oh my god, they

783
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: have a great podcast, and I'm like, shit, that's so smart,

784
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: Like this is these people will be amazing and this

785
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: would resonate with them. So that I did some research

786
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: on you and I'm like, hey, I've got to hit

787
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: him off.

788
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: Like no, I love that you did, I really do.

789
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 2: This is awesome to talk to you. Well, I appreciate you.

790
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for chatting car. This is awesome

791
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: and maybe maybe there's a future for us. I think

792
00:44:58,760 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: you got some cool shit.

793
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah cool soon.

794
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: All right, thanks cam Hye, Bye bye fun. What a

795
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: smart young lady. Man. I love that. When I was

796
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: twenty two, it was fucking maniac. Actually, when I was

797
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: twenty two that was between my girlfriend and then my wife,

798
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: So I was single and like losing my mind. She

799
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: was in the Hampton's running, you know, trying to get better.

800
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: I was in the Hamptons in a pool that was

801
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: rented by the Playboy playmates. Like that's what I was

802
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: doing at twenty two. It was a great night. It

803
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 2: was insane. I was in that pool from let's see

804
00:45:52,120 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: four in the morning until seven pm the next day. Yeah,

805
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 2: that was fun. I was twenty two. Uh, you know,

806
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 2: I'm glad those days were over. Holy shit. Anyway, that

807
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 2: was awesome. I mean, she's just on point. I love

808
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: you all. I'm gonna get out of here. I'm saying

809
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: too many things by

810
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: A