WEBVTT - Beast of Burden 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.760 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.559 last twenty five years writing about true crime. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.800 And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.400 worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.799 Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.720 compelling true crimes. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.239 And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.040 new insights to old mysteries. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.639 Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.360 cases through a twenty first century lens. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.800 Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:39.800 This is buried Bones. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:03.840 Hey Paul, Hey Kate, how's it going. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.760 It's going well. Normally we have lots of fun shit chat, 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.560 but I think we're just going to jump right into 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:09.840 this story. What do you think? 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:11.160 Okay, let's do it. 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.000 We are in late eighteen hundreds and we're going to 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.920 be in Iowa and I have never been to Iowa, 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.480 but I would love to go to Iowa. Have you 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.320 been to Iowa? Are their murderers in Iowa? 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:28.680 Yeah? I actually did a case in Iowa. Was Williamsburg 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.160 double homicide of a couple at a holiday inn. They 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.959 were hatcheted to death in their bed. Oh my gosh, horrible, 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.680 horrible case. And this was the very first episode of 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:46.440 my TV show, The DNA of Murder. And I'm confident 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.200 that two other cases, one in Illinois and one down 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.600 in Mississippi, or I think it's Mississippi where there are 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.920 two single men hatcheted to death in their hotel rooms. 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.880 I'm confident it's the same offender and pretty confident I 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.040 know who that offender is. Just haven't been able to 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:06.480 get the evidence to prove the case. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.560 We talk about that all the time with you, where 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.800 you end up feeling like you have such a strong 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.160 feeling about it and then there's just not enough evidence. 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:15.440 We talked about that with the Golden State killer case too, 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.400 where you were, you know, you were leaning towards a suspect, 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.639 and then when the DNA comes back, it doesn't match. 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.560 So I know how frustrating that can be for you. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.320 It is, but I better pull out a notepad here 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.560 and start taking notes as you as you tell me 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.480 about this eighteen hundreds case in Iowa. 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.120 Time to head to Iowa. Okay, let's go ahead and 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.200 set the scene. The center of this story is the 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:42.200 Elkins family and they are in Elk Township, which is 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.760 in northeast Iowa. And they are a farming family, very 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.000 typical farming family. We're in eighteen eighty nine, summertime, eighteen 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.400 eighty nine, very rural, and this is our stomping ground 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.960 eighteen Yes, can you believe you're I've I've been saying 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.000 this about you. Your stomping ground is eighteen hundreds, rural community. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.960 This is where these are our bread and butter stories. 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.120 I feel like, don't you feel like we come to 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:06.840 these stories sometimes. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.600 They do seem to come up quite a bit, you know. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.520 And I think part of it though, is kind of 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.880 the lack of density with the residents. So, you know, 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.760 offenders recognize that they have space in order to commit 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:24.200 the crimes and relatively low risk for witnesses to see them. 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.880 I think that's true. And you know, we end up 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.320 with very few witnesses. We have some ear witnesses sometimes, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.600 but these cases can be pretty frustrating. Okay, well let's 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.360 get into this one. So this is a very quiet 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.119 part of the Midwest, as we said before, and this 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.600 is the morning of Wednesday, July seventeenth, and something really 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:48.240 unsettling happens to a farmer who knows the Elkins family. 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.720 So that morning he sees it's a guy named John Porter, 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.880 and he sees an eleven year old local boy who 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.960 is one of the members of the Elkins family. His 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.200 name is John Wesley Elkins. His dad's name is John, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.400 and he goes by Wesley. So he is driving his 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:10.240 family's horse drawn buggy and he's heading down a nearby 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.680 dirt road totally covered in blood. The driving the buggy 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.480 part is an alarming at first, I thought, you know, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.000 knee jerky action is an eleven year old out there 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.880 driving on a country road. They absolutely would have known how, 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.040 of course, how to drive a horse and buggy. He's 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.080 down there driving this horse and buggy. He's covered in blood. 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.559 As Wesley gets closer to John Porter, the neighbor, John 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.080 can also see that Wesley has a companion. It's his 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.400 one year old half sister whose name is Nelly, and 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.880 she's lying on the seat beside him, so she seems 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.240 to be fine. He is covered in blood and really 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.360 having a difficult time. He slows down the horse and 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:52.320 buggy and John Porter says what's happening, and Wesley says 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.800 that somebody broke into the family's house and shot his 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:01.320 father John and pounded to death his stepmother Hattie. Okay, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.960 so Wesley was on his way with his little sister 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.960 to his grandfather's house to get help. So there's a 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.320 lot to unpack here already. You don't have very much information, 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.440 I know, but just this scene must have been terrifying. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.560 Of this little boy covered in blood. He's a small kid. 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.320 I'll show you a picture of him later. He survives 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.520 this attack along with his one year old, and he 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.520 has the presence of mind to take her, put her 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.240 in this horse and buggy and get to safety. So 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:28.840 that's where we are at this point. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.279 And no other siblings inside the house. This is the 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:36.720 entirety of the family, the two kids and the parents. Okay, yep. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.839 Eleven year old, a one year old, and then the parents. 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.400 So you know this is alarming of course, to John 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.720 Porter and an intruder. He's very specific, right, I mean, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.119 he's saying he shot his dad and then he said 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.800 that the intruder pounded his stepmother to death. So this 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.120 is very upsetting, of course, and I think would have 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.440 been even more unusual than you would think in this 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.760 area of the Midwest. So you know, do you want 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.800 to continue or do you have any other thoughts on that? 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:11.480 Well, you know, this description of Wesley being covered in blood, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.040 you know, that's the term that's often used. And of course, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.800 from my vantage point is I want to see, you know, 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.440 how much blood, what kinds of patterns are present, you know, 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.359 under the circumstances as you've told him up to now 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.640 I'm wondering, well, why does Wesley have any blood on him? 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.159 It was he close to his step mom when she's 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.679 being bludgeoned. Absolutely, you know you can get blood spatter 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.120 coming up onto the kid. Can you imagine how traumatic 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.400 this would be for an eleven year old boy? You know, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:48.200 of course you indicate that the dad, John Senior, is shot. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.239 You know what is he shot with? If he's just shot, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.719 let's say, with a handgun in the chest, that's really 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.760 not a very bloody scene at all, Versus was he 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.040 shot in the head with a shotgun? And then now 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.240 you can see where could have a lot of his 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:05.800 father's blood on him? Or after his parents are killed, 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:10.240 does Wesley go up and interact with their bodies? Mom? 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.720 Are you okay? Something like that? And now he's getting 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.520 blood on himself, and at this point in time, we 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.560 don't know if Wesley himself has any bleeding injuries. Obviously 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.800 I need more information, but right now I'm starting to 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.960 just kind of figure out the dynamic space on what 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:26.520 you've told me. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.920 There's a lot more information to come. So John Porter, 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.240 the neighbor the farmer, gets his adult son and they 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.080 go to the Elkins home. So they make sure that 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.240 Wesley and his one year old sister are secured, and 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.920 they decide they're going to go to the house, which 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.480 seems like a scary idea to me, but you know what, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.640 they need to go investigate. I guess they find Wesley's parents, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.880 just as he said, they're dead in the bedroom. John 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.040 sends his son to go to the police, and this 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.640 is what the police eventually find and what John Porter finds. 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:04.560 There is John Wesley, Sr. Who is forty three. He 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.640 is lying on his bed with his head resting on 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.160 his pillow, and he has been shot once through the 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.520 left eye. It also looks right now that he's been 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.160 beaten with some sort of blunt instrument on the left 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.240 side of his head and on his forehead. Okay, so 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.080 we have a good source book that Marin used. It 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.200 was a woman named Patricia Bryan and her co author 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.880 Thomas Wolfe, wrote a book called The Plea. In the book, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.280 they described his face as destroyed. So it sounds like 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.640 badly beaten, but right, I mean, we need to know 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.680 more about the gun to see gosh through his eye. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.839 I mean that is just always so gruesome to me. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.160 Is that someone who intentionally did that or missed or 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.280 when you see that kind of an injury, what does 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.760 that usually mean the person was the victim was moving around? 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.959 No, you know, there's the evaluation of the distance that 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.800 the gun was at the time of the shot. If 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.280 it is a more distant shot, did the sh shooter 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.200 truly intended to shoot through the eye or it's just 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.600 generally shooting at the at the head and it just 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.240 happed the bullet happened to pass through the eye. However, 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.920 if you have let's say a very close range shot, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.920 now you've got let's say stippling from gunpowder, or you 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:20.240 have sooting or or even depending on the caliber of 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.320 the weapon, you can even get gases going into the 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.920 skull space the orbital space, and now you can get 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.480 rupture of the skin showing it's a contact wound. Now, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.520 if that is what's going on, then yes, I would 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.720 say the offender, the shooter intentionally shot John through the eye. 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.839 So right now, absent that type of information, it's at 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.040 this point, it's just the shot went through his his 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.120 left eye. Of course, I'm very interested in the bludgeting 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.120 because you know what what weapon was used to bludgeon 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.959 John as he laid there. It sounds like he's asleep 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.760 and possibly never even realized that he was about to die. 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.120 Let me tell you about the other body, which would 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.360 be Hattie. So she was twenty three, twenty years younger 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.720 than her husband, his second wife. John's body is partially 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.720 covered by Hattie's body. So in this book the plea 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.040 she's described as this is an interesting description, bent backward 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.800 across the bed in an unnatural position with her face 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.960 toward the ceiling and her feet on the floor. She 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.040 had been beaten so violently with this blunt object that 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.440 her skull and her jawbone were broken, and the backs 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.200 of her legs are severely bruised. And then I have 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.400 information about blood throughout the room. But those are the 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.160 two things about the victims. So what do you think 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.000 about that she's kind of laying on top of him. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.160 It sounds like well, the position of her body being 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:51.599 on top of her husband, John could suggest a sequence 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.559 in terms of who was attacked first. And of course, 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.640 an offender recognizing that there's a male likely is going 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.400 to go out after the biggest threat first. Patty's position 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.840 is she also asleep and as her husband is, there's 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.040 a gunshot. She wakes up. Her husband's getting beat by 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.679 this guy, and now she's trying to get off the bed, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.640 and now the offender turns his attention onto her, and 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.920 then ultimately she collapses backwards onto John. I mean, I 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:26.520 think that's one possible scenario, but there's many possible scenarios. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.840 At this point. This is where now the blood patterns, 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.160 her actual injuries. Taking a look at things within the 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.760 bedroom itself can help inform sort of the sequence of 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.680 how these victims were attacked. And I'm sure you're going 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.280 to give me more information coming up. 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.920 So this is the scene. The rest of the scene 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.320 in this bedroom, there is blood spatter on the walls 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.640 and the ceiling pool, blood in the bed sheets and 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.120 nearby on the floor, and there are small footprints we 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.440 find out later it's Wesley's footprints because he ran up 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.559 to see what was going on. He had beer feet 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.320 that led from the bodies to another bedroom in the house. 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.240 So the bed in the second bedroom is unmade, and 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.640 there are spots of blood in its sheets, and at 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.559 the foot of the bed there is a single barrel 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.880 rifle which is determined to be one of the murder weapons, 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.840 and it belongs to the family and it's usually stored 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.480 in a bedroom where it hangs on the wall. So 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.800 anybody who's been in this house would have seen this 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.360 gun there, or I suppose somebody there looking to rob 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.200 the house could have seen this gun inexplicably on the wall. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.720 Using them as a weapon seems odd to me. But 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:35.679 what do you think about that? 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.280 I just I need to clarify. You have the second bedroom, 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.560 which it doesn't appear that anybody had slept in that. 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.000 Bed, right, I don't think so? 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.800 Yeah? And what kind of blood staining was seen? That? 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:53.599 Is it blood drips that was leading from the homicide 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.400 room into the second bedroom. 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.240 Yes, So there are the footprints that we are later 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.440 determining our belong to Wesley, that go from the bodies 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.720 to another bedroom in the house. Where we presume the 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.280 little girl was, so he was probably checking on her. 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.280 Then the bed in this second room is unmade, so 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.560 nobody's slept in there, and there are spots of blood 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.120 in its sheets, and at the foot of the bed 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.360 is the rifle. Okay, so no action in that second bedroom. 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:21.720 It sounds like a little bit of blood. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.520 So there's also sequence information. You said the rifle is 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.600 the weapon used to shoot John. They confirmed this, probably 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.800 through some sort of ballistic analysis, I imagine for the 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:40.439 late eighteen hundreds. The blood drips, Now, this could be 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.000 the offender. I don't know what kind of weapon was 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.160 used to do the bludgeoning. Does the offender himself get 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.240 injured as a result of bludgeoning, because sometimes you're holding 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.319 on to a victim with your off hand and you're 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.600 using your other hand to beat that victim, and now 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.280 you're hitting your own hand, and now you have lacerations 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.520 that could cause bleeding. So when the offender moves to 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.800 the second bedroom and dumps the rifle there, you know, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.960 might be the offender's dripped blood. Could it be Wesley, 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.760 You know, Wesley is at this point, I'm not going 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.840 to say I have any suspicions of Wesley at this point. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.440 But you know, I just want to put that out there. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.800 He's an eleven year old boy. You know, he can 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.080 shoot a rifle. But I have a hard time seeing 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:27.720 him beating his mother, you know, being able to physically 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.680 overpower her, unless he's a very robust eleven year old boy, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:36.280 right if she's trying to fight back. But Wesley's movements 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.880 are a form of post offense crime scene contamination that 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.960 we have to take into account. And so is Wesley 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.640 bringing some blood into the second bedroom as he's moving 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.760 through the house. So but right now, that's kind of 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.560 it's interesting that the offenders going into the second bedroom 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.800 and is using the family's own rifle in the shooting 0:14:58.960 --> 0:14:59.800 of the father. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.960 And I can identify the weapon that was used to 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.160 bludgeon the parents to death. So I'm going to show 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:08.720 it to you because I've never heard of this before. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.840 So the police are searching, they're trying to find this 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.840 blunt object. They think they found it. It's a wooden 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:20.760 German flail which is used to thresh grain and has 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.680 hairs and dry blood on it, so they think this 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.560 is the weapon. I have a photo of what it 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.480 probably looked like but let me just tell you. It's 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.560 about two feet long and about three inches wide. And 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.480 they found it hidden under grass about twenty feet from 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.760 the home's back entrance. So somebody hid it. So the 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:43.120 killer or killers didn't hide the rifle, but did hide 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.280 this object. And so I can I can you want 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:46.880 to show you that photo or what do you think? 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.160 Absolutely no, this is not a fool. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.240 If this isn't good enough for you, Paul Holes, then 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.680 I will find a different photo, but it better be 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.000 good enough. Okay, there it is. Now that's not a 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.040 very it doesn't show the full thing, but I mean, 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:02.440 is that clear enough for you? 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.240 Okay, that's interesting. So in this photograph, yeah, this is 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.920 very different than what I was expecting. It appears that 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:15.880 there are two wooden I'm not sure i'd call them handles. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.440 Like rods, right, we're right, Yeah. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.200 I think rod is a good descriptor. So two wooden 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.920 rods that are joined together at one end with what 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:31.120 appears to be leather strapping that has been secured to 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.120 each of these rods. Now, I'm not sure how this 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.520 weapon is. I mean, in some ways, it's it almost 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.480 approximates you know, your your numb chucks for martial arts, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.200 just like a very very old style. I don't know 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:49.000 how that's actually used in the threshing operation, but the 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.080 offender could use this a variety of ways. He could 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.800 be holding on to both rods at the same time 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.760 and it's now just a singular object in some ways 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.720 being used to bludgeon the parents. Or he could be 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.639 holding just one rod more like your numb chuck style, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.120 and now whipping that second rod, which of course would 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.760 generate a tremendous amount of velocity. The injuries to the 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:17.480 you know, the parents would possibly be able to demonstrate 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.760 how the offender held this weapon, the fact that they're 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.360 finding blood and hair adhering to this. I mean, from 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.639 my perspective, there's no question that this was the bludgeting weapon. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.920 Why would you use two different weapons? You've got one shot. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.200 We're assuming whoever this is tried to take down John 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.720 first because he's the male. He shoots him through the eye, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.119 so why then not shoot Hattie? Or is it this 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.760 is improvising? I mean, what would have happened here? 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.240 Well, first, right now we don't know based on the information. 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:55.879 The exact sequence was John initially beat unconscious, and possibly killed, 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.119 and then the offender found the rifle and decided I 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.560 needed to shoot him in order to finish him off. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.840 But I think another possibility is the offender shoots John 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.760 and starts to beat him, and now Patty is either 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.480 trying to escape or is coming to her husband's rescue. 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:19.880 Now the offender a rifle is horrible for close quarters combat. 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.760 I mean you could see where Let's say the offender 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.119 shoots John, Patty wakes up and now she's grabbing the 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.720 rifle and she's now struggling with the offender over the rifle. 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.080 And right now, I'm just going to assume single offender, 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.600 this offender has this bludgeoning weapon, this flail, that he 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.639 has to turn to to start beating Paddy off and 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.359 then ultimately killing her with the flail. So I think 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.200 that that's another possible scenario. Of course, now if we 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.880 add a second offender into the mix, then we have 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:52.719 different dynamics going on. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.719 Well, let me tell you how this investigation goes. There 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.920 is a coroner's inquest, and Wesley's call up first because 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.440 he's the only witness. So I'll tell you. I'll lay 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.479 out what he says happened. He says that on Tuesday night, 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.439 so the night before, hours before John and Hattie were killed, 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.480 Wesley had eaten dinner and then his dad told him, 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:16.680 don't sleep in the house tonight. You need to sleep 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.159 in the barn. Wesley was actually happy to do it 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:20.920 because it was, you know, late July. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.720 Was this a form of punishment or was this just 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.120 getting him out of the house for one reason or another? Right? 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.719 I think it was an eleven year old boy, you know, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:30.879 let's get out of the house because you know they 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.359 have a one year old there who probably has trouble sleeping. 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.840 It didn't seem like a form of punishment, no, And 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:37.720 Wesley was happy to do it because he said the 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.439 barn was a lot cooler at night than being in 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.240 that house. This is not a massive house. So around 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.399 eight o'clock that night he heads out to the barn, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.399 and the barn is about two hundred and fifty feet 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.040 from the house. Should Wesley be able to hear things 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.520 that are happening, like the sound of a rifle going 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.200 off or he says later on, he heard a scream? 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.439 But is this is this? Should can he be an 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.080 ear witness in this case? Do you think? 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.639 Well? I would say, you know, with the gunshot, you 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.320 know most certainly within two hundred and fifty feet, if 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:10.359 you know it's you don't have a storm going on, 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.320 or it's successively windy. I mean that that type of 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:18.320 sound carries a great distance. You know, I always having 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.160 played sports growing up, you know, when you start talking 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.200 about these these distances, I kind of relate these distances 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.920 to the various sporting activities I've been in. And of course, 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.080 two hundred and fifty feet, you know, that's close to 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.120 three hundred feet, which is the length of a football field. Okay, 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.480 so you know two hundred fifty feet. I mean it 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.400 is a good distance, but it's not you know, something 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.080 in which you know, if if a woman were to scream, 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.400 that scream would fall off before somebody that distance away 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.880 would would hear it. So you know, then we have 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.480 you know the structures, right, you have the house where 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.359 the homicide occurred. You've got Wesley who is in a barn. 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.880 You know that's going to impact the acoustics. So it's 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.680 hard to say if he sure would be an ear witness, 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.880 but yeah, you know, I mean he's I probably wouldn't 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.080 let my eleven year old son be sleeping out in 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.919 a barn, you know, two hundred fifty feet away from me, 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:11.400 but different time, different era. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.200 So what Wesley says is that he went to sleep, 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.200 it was nice and cool. He woke up in the 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.600 middle of the night after hearing what he described as 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.600 a woman's scream, so this would be his stepmother Hattie. 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.359 He was petrified, as any eleven year old would be, 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.320 and he waited. He thought about thirty minutes before he 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.600 decided to go ahead and check in on the family. 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.080 He walks over to the house and that's when he 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.880 sees his parents dead, and that's why his footprints are 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.639 in the blood. He says that his little sister, Nelly 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:48.480 was in the bed with his parents, and he said 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.119 she was just wailing, crying as hard as she could, 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.639 covered in their blood, but that she was not He 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.480 checked and she was not physically harmed, and later on 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:00.919 the doctor said she wasn't harmed. He said that he 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:02.439 picked her up and he took her to the second 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.000 bedroom and he lit the lamp on the nearby chest, 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.040 and then he changed her into some clean clothes. I 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.280