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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And the US government has lost more

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Speaker 1: than ten thousand stem PhDs since Trump took office, ten

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Speaker 1: thousand cures, ten thousand science prizes, ten thousand Nobels, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just wild. We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: MS Now is Lawrence O'Donnell Shows. Lawrence O'Donnell stops by

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Speaker 1: to talk about the fallouts from ICE's aggressions and Greg

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Speaker 1: Bovino being pulled from Minnesota. Then we'll talk to New

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Speaker 1: York Magazine's Ben Harris about his article chronicling Donald Trump's

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Speaker 1: many health issues. But first the stories the media is missing.

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Speaker 2: Molly, we have a scoop from Axios that the misleading

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Speaker 2: claim that Alex Pretty wanted to massacre agents came right

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Speaker 2: from the furor in the White House, Stephen Miller.

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Speaker 1: So here's what's happening. When you're starting getting scoops like this,

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Speaker 1: this is Trump one point zero. This is someone is

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Speaker 1: targeting someone else and so they're leaking again. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in this White House who are

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Speaker 1: pretty cooked, and I mean cooked in the sense of

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Speaker 1: like nuts. So is Christy Nome leaking, This is Corey leaking,

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Speaker 1: This is one of their deputies leaking this, who knows.

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Speaker 1: But you're going to start seeing stories like this, trying

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Speaker 1: to obfuscate, trying to lay the blame on someone else's feet.

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Speaker 1: And you know what's good about this is that they're

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Speaker 1: in order for American democracy to survive, in order to

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Speaker 1: end this kind of ice cruelty, you really need Gnome

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Speaker 1: and Stephen Miller out, So to have them both leaking

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Speaker 1: against each other actually sort of works with the cause.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. DHS posted a statement that

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Speaker 1: some White House officials had signed off on the statement

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Speaker 1: but others had not. You know, maybe maybe that's true,

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Speaker 1: maybe not right, Maybe none of this is true. Miller

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Speaker 1: then posted on x that Preddy was an assassin, which

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Speaker 1: a source said was based on a preliminary report from

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Speaker 1: Customs and Border Patrol. The preliminary report was nothing, okay,

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Speaker 1: it was them making shit up. Then Vice President Vance

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Speaker 1: reposted it on his page. Nom subsequently used the language

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Speaker 1: at a news conference, and then as did Border Patrol

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Speaker 1: Commander Greg Bovino, who was on his way out Worth,

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Speaker 1: pausing for a second to see somebody is trying to

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Speaker 1: blame Miller here for the assassin line so that Nome

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Speaker 1: doesn't get blamed. And Nome had a two hour meeting

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Speaker 1: with Trump today. Just look at when you read stories

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Speaker 1: like this, be cynical, Okay. And then because it's axios

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Speaker 1: between the lines, Trump's move was a rare break with Miller,

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Speaker 1: who remains one of the president's closest advisors, sources say.

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Speaker 1: And then we have White House Press Secretary and Chief

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Speaker 1: Propaganda Carolyn Levitt. Steven Miller's one of Presidents Trump's most

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Speaker 1: trusted and long serving aids. She says, But I want

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Speaker 1: to talk for a second about what's happening in DHS,

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Speaker 1: because we saw DHS. I want to just read this

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Speaker 1: one thing. They made a real point of lying about

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Speaker 1: Bovino even when he was about to be fired. So

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Speaker 1: Tricia McLaughlin, who comes from Trump World, comes from Fox,

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Speaker 1: said that Bovino was the key part of the President's

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Speaker 1: team and a great American. This was a confirmation basically

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Speaker 1: that right as he was being fired. Okay, So it's

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Speaker 1: almost like Trish McLaughlin is like Jim Kramer. Ryan Grimm

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Speaker 1: had a great tweet. This is basically a confirmation that

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Speaker 1: he's been fired. Spokesman version of the Jim Kramer index,

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Speaker 1: which is, like, Jim Kramer is this guy who has

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Speaker 1: a show on CMEC, and there's an index of people

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Speaker 1: who invest in things that he doesn't like. Because he's

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Speaker 1: so often, we.

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Speaker 2: Should say they do the opposite of them. And on

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Speaker 2: the trucker for this, it was the most successful etch

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Speaker 2: of any trucker in the stocks last year.

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Speaker 1: Right, And Tristia McLachlin put this tweet out right around

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Speaker 1: the time that Greg Bovino was locked out of his socials.

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Speaker 1: So pretty good example of not to trust what these

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Speaker 1: people are saying.

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Speaker 2: So because of all this, I'm going to really shock

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Speaker 2: you and maybe you can come up with some hypotheses

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Speaker 2: with me. Or all is plummeting among ice agents in

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Speaker 2: Minnesota over long hours quota's public hatred. Can you imagine why?

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Speaker 1: No, I cannot imagine why these boyly trained but heavily

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Speaker 1: paid armed men wearing masks and no identification and killing

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Speaker 1: white nurses right like, killed two thirty seven year old

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Speaker 1: citizens in this span of two weeks. These guys are

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Speaker 1: not popular and I am not at all surprised and

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Speaker 1: they're polling terribly and you know they're killing people. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry that they're not having a good time. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they should quit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, strongly agree. You signed up for this terrible shit job.

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Speaker 2: You made your bed, you lie in it. So in

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Speaker 2: accountability news, you'll be shocked to hear that ICE director

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Speaker 2: Todd Lyons doesn't want to show up for accountability and

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Speaker 2: he's now going to be held in contempt.

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Speaker 1: So this is US District Court judge wrote that the

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Speaker 1: court's patience is at an end for dozens of violations

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Speaker 1: from the Trump administration, which this week changed its approach

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Speaker 1: to immigration efforts in the state. Whatever that means. Let's

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Speaker 1: not give them the benefit of the doubt. This isn't

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Speaker 1: the first time the Trump administration is fly to court rulings,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, they do it almost all the time,

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Speaker 1: So the court says. Court acknowledges that ordering the head

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Speaker 1: of a federal agency to personally appear is an extraordinary step,

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Speaker 1: but the extent of ICE's violations of court orders is

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Speaker 1: likewise extraordinary, and lesser measures have tried and failed. So again,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what happens here. Like this is a

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Speaker 1: big thing we see in this administry as the courts

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Speaker 1: tell them to do something and then they either go

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Speaker 1: right up to the line or they don't do it,

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Speaker 1: or they do something that is not okay. We'll see

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Speaker 1: more of this sort of slow rolling constitutional crisis.

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Speaker 2: So there was two things that Trump walked into his

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Speaker 2: second term popular on the economy and immigration. They are

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Speaker 2: both going absolutely terrible, as we now see Americans confidence

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Speaker 2: and the US economy has fallen to its lowest level

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Speaker 2: since twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and also, can I just add that now Trump

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Speaker 1: is not going to get that rate cut he wanted. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: did you saw that? Right?

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Speaker 3: That?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: I mean the second I read this, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know who's literally just like laughing in

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Speaker 2: his off historic darts at the wall of Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: as Drobe Powell.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but Jerome Pewell just said he's not going to

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Speaker 1: do the Ray cut, and so like, yeah, they may

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Speaker 1: be able to, and they may not be able to.

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Speaker 1: Powell will be up and a point as successor, but

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Speaker 1: there's more likely the Powell stays on the Board of

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Speaker 1: Governors now, and it's a board of governors, right, It's

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Speaker 1: not one person who decides the rate cut. They vote,

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Speaker 1: and now they're all saying they don't want to do

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Speaker 1: the rate cut, and the Supreme Court it sounds like

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Speaker 1: they're going to protect J. Powell and they're going to

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Speaker 1: protect Leaves the cook. So Trump is not going to

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Speaker 1: get the lower interest rates that he wants. But this

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Speaker 1: consumer confidence. Our economy survives on consumer spending. And since

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Speaker 1: manufacturing has shrunk more because of the tariffs, and people

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Speaker 1: do not want to build factories here because of the tariffs,

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Speaker 1: it's a real problem. Confidence collapsed in January's consumer concerns

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Speaker 1: about both the present situation and expectations for the future deepened.

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Speaker 1: This is the Conference Board chiefs Economist. Unfortunately for Trump

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Speaker 1: he cannot fire that person. All five components of the

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Speaker 1: index deteriorate, it, driving the overall index to its lowest

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Speaker 1: level since May twenty fourteen. That is surpassing the COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen pandemic depths. So that's pretty bad. You know, if

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Speaker 1: consumers start to behave like it's a recession, we will

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Speaker 1: eventually end up in a recession. And this is not

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Speaker 1: good for anymore. Lawrence O'Donnell is the host of the

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Speaker 1: Lawrence O'Donnell's Show on MS NOW welcome, Welcome, Lawrence. I

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Speaker 1: think of you as a person who understands the Senate

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Speaker 1: for obvious reasons in ways that most people don't. There

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Speaker 1: is a movement to impeach Christy Nome. A lot like

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Speaker 1: a third of House Democrats have signed on to this idea.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's a good idea? And I mean structurally,

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Speaker 1: Does it mean accountability? Or am I just high on

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Speaker 1: my own supply?

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Speaker 4: That's too many questions, because if I go for the

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Speaker 4: last one, you know we'll be here for a while.

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Speaker 4: So here's the thing about this kind of analysis. It

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Speaker 4: requires a humility that has been lost in our culture.

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Speaker 4: People think they understand everything as soon as they've read

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Speaker 4: two articles about it, and so then they can have

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Speaker 4: an opinion and they say this is a good idea

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Speaker 4: or a bad idea. Let me take you back to

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Speaker 4: the ancient period of the nineteen nineties. This is when

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump was universally considered an idiot, and it was

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Speaker 4: before any television network would ever dream of doing business

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Speaker 4: with him, as NBC sadly descended into in the twenty

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Speaker 4: first century. And so in those days, if you were

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Speaker 4: to ask me if something was a good idea or

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Speaker 4: bad idea as a vote in the House of the Senate.

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Speaker 4: I could tell you, and I could tell you why,

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Speaker 4: And the reason is it was a lot like meteorology.

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Speaker 4: You know, we had seen a version of this play before.

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Speaker 4: It was never the case that we could say, well,

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Speaker 4: we've never seen anything like this before. We had seen everything,

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Speaker 4: and everything was then a variation on everything. So then

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Speaker 4: people became people like me became very good at predicting

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Speaker 4: what was going to happen next, what was going to work,

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Speaker 4: what was going to win, what was going to lose.

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Speaker 4: But I have to say I did not consider it

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Speaker 4: a very highly refined skill. It was just sort of

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Speaker 4: a bunch of private information at the time. People there

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Speaker 4: was no American citizen who knew what budget reconciliation was.

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Speaker 4: There was no American citizen who knew what a budget

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Speaker 4: resolution is. There's no American citizen who knew what the

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Speaker 4: word cloture meant. Okay, everybody knows that now, and that's great,

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Speaker 4: by the way, because I can now talk to civilians

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Speaker 4: in a way that I couldn't before. But but it

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Speaker 4: doesn't mean you know what's going to happen next in

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Speaker 4: a completely new environment. So the word impeachment. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: has lost all of its meaning, it's lost its strategic meaning,

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Speaker 4: it's lost its significance in so many ways that I

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Speaker 4: have no idea whether it is whether it is a

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Speaker 4: good idea for House Republicans to say, let's impeach Christy Nome.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, and I don't think people know. And

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Speaker 4: so I think these are the moments where you sit

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Speaker 4: back and you say, I'm glad I don't have that job,

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Speaker 4: because if I had that job, it would be hard

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Speaker 4: for me to decide which way to go here. And oh,

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Speaker 4: by the way, how do I pick her, you know,

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Speaker 4: out of the whole bunch? How is that the one

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Speaker 4: I pick, you know, and not the attorney general and

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Speaker 4: not Donald Trump? And how do you do that? And

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Speaker 4: I have no idea, and no one should pretend that

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Speaker 4: they do. And so I respect the judgment of some

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Speaker 4: of the people who are at the forefront of this choice,

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Speaker 4: and I certainly respect the judgment of people who are

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Speaker 4: hanging back, going, wait a minute, I'm not sure we

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Speaker 4: should make this move. And you know, we all know

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Speaker 4: that there are not, you know, sixty seven votes in

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Speaker 4: the Senate to convict anyone. I don't believe that that

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Speaker 4: should be a determining factor in whether the House acts.

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Speaker 4: I think the House, for example, and the trumpetpeachments, had

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Speaker 4: a moral and historic obligation to act and impeach him.

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Speaker 4: And if the Senate failed, the Senate failed. But the

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Speaker 4: House had its own duty. And I never accepted the

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Speaker 4: idea that, well, why are they doing this if they

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Speaker 4: know they're going to lose in the Senate. There was

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Speaker 4: an absolute correct mandate to do that, and they did it.

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Speaker 4: This is the longest version of I don't know that

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Speaker 4: you've ever heard on this program.

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Speaker 1: I think the history of this is important, and the

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Speaker 1: way the calculus has changed is also important. Right, you

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Speaker 1: have to make decisions in a different way, And I agree,

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Speaker 1: And I also think that a trial in the Senate

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Speaker 1: is meaningful for any number of reasons, and the biggest

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Speaker 1: of which is accountability.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's certainly a way of getting in the

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Speaker 4: way of a crazy Republican Senate and basically taking up

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Speaker 4: some of their calendar time to prevent them from doing

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Speaker 4: bad things on those days for those hours. And so

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Speaker 4: I listen, I just don't know. I mean, look, when

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Speaker 4: I was there, it was stuff like should we try

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Speaker 4: to attach a minimum wage amendment to this moving vehicle legislatively,

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Speaker 4: because we're not going to see another one where it

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Speaker 4: could be germane for the next year. But you know

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Speaker 4: that was that was the stakes, and so this has

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Speaker 4: to be respected as completely uncharted. We say it all

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Speaker 4: the time, we say unprecedented, we say uncharted territory. And

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Speaker 4: then as soon as the word unprecedented is said, someone

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Speaker 4: then predicts for you what's going to happen next. Well,

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Speaker 4: that's pretty ridiculous, you know that that. Let's just admit it.

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Speaker 4: Let's just live in the present tense. You know, we

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Speaker 4: don't know. And oh, by the way, that's true of

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Speaker 4: everything else in your life.

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Speaker 1: True. I don't have a huge deal of respect for

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson, but the level in which discharge petitions have

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Speaker 1: flown by his desk shows that his colleagues don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of respect for me. There.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it would create problems for him, it would

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Speaker 4: create problems for you know, other Republicans. So I don't know,

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Speaker 4: is that what you do in this minority, in this

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Speaker 4: House of Representatives? You know, you know, when I you know,

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Speaker 4: when I was there, I was working in the Senate

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Speaker 4: the Republicans had not controlled the House Representatives in my lifetime,

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Speaker 4: literally in my lifetime, okay, and so the House was

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Speaker 4: like a Soviet institution. The minority had absolutely no rights.

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Speaker 4: And here's the important thing about the minority, the Republican

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Speaker 4: minority in the House, they had no expectations none. They

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Speaker 4: never expected to be allowed in the room where a

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Speaker 4: governing decision would be made, and they never were in

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Speaker 4: the House of Representatives. And some of them, you know,

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Speaker 4: shared enough policy agreements with Democrats that they would join

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Speaker 4: a lot of different kinds of legislation, especially you know,

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Speaker 4: defense funding and infrastructure spending was non controversial in those days.

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Speaker 4: It was a lot of stuff that was in the

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Speaker 4: middle of the field, you know, that they got to

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Speaker 4: participate in. But no House chair chairman ever puts something

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Speaker 4: in a bill because a Republican member of the committee

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Speaker 4: wanted it, you know, and so they just got to

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Speaker 4: vote on the product of that this other party was

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Speaker 4: putting out. There is no such thing as a historical

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Speaker 4: model for an effective running of a minority party in

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Speaker 4: the House Representatives. It doesn't exist. And so when people

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Speaker 4: complain about what are the Democrats do it in the House,

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Speaker 4: I just kind of sit there and think. You know,

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Speaker 4: that's like asking what the passengers on the f train

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Speaker 4: are doing about how fast the train is going. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's just like what you what are you talking about?

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Speaker 4: And what they're talking about is the expectation, understandably, because

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Speaker 4: they've been fundamentally lied to about this for a long time,

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Speaker 4: the expectation that their vote within a so called democracy

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Speaker 4: for their local representative has some meaning in Washington when

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Speaker 4: their local representative shows up there, and that's just a

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Speaker 4: little honka mythology. You know that this place has been

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Speaker 4: selling you know, that has as much you know, truth

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Speaker 4: to it as a hallmark greeting card for.

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Speaker 1: A party that is in the minority. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: never thought any of that stuff would pass.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know how many discharge petitions passed when I

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Speaker 4: was working there. Zero. I didn't know what a discharge

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Speaker 4: petition was. Okay, I worked at the Senate. It never happened.

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Speaker 4: I didn't have to know what a discharge petition was.

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Speaker 4: I was never sitting there in the Senate going, oh,

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Speaker 4: they just passed a discharge petition in the House. In

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Speaker 4: my jurisdiction, in the Senate Finance Committee, I have to

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Speaker 4: we now have to act on it, like like that

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Speaker 4: never happens. So yeah, so I'm sitting here kind of

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Speaker 4: astounded at what they have accomplished, just kind of in

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Speaker 4: awe of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's a really good point. The

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Speaker 1: other thing I want to bring up is the reason

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Speaker 1: that the House had been controlled by Democrats for so

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Speaker 1: long was really because a Nixon.

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Speaker 4: Right, Oh, no, way pre dates Nixon. Well, it's really

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Speaker 4: because of Franklin Roosevelt. Really, yeah, I mean that's really

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Speaker 4: what created the real functioning democratic majority in government, and

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Speaker 4: that carried over. You could switch back and forth a

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Speaker 4: little bit, but basically, once the New Deal passed and

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Speaker 4: social Security was real and people were receiving social Security

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Speaker 4: in the nineteen fifties, you had recipients receiving it. You know,

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Speaker 4: that was a grateful country for what the Democratic Party

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Speaker 4: had done, and so they weren't And also, by the way,

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Speaker 4: the whole crossover interests of voters were kind of rational.

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Speaker 4: You know, It's like, you know, you were voting. People

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Speaker 4: weren't voting on issues like abortion. It didn't exist as

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Speaker 4: an issue, right, and so they were voting on what

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Speaker 4: do they think is beneficial to them, and most people

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Speaker 4: needed social Security, so they would voting in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Trump has really tried hard not to fire people, or

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Speaker 1: at least not to create the appearance of firing people.

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Speaker 1: That's been you know, it's like he definitely saw the

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Speaker 1: Mattow wall of fired people. Like that's what I keep

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Speaker 1: thinking about because he you know, clearly that's a thing

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Speaker 1: for him. But Greg Blevino is out.

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Speaker 4: Well or is Yeah, I'll believe it when he's actually out.

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Speaker 4: You know. The the poor guy was going for a

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Speaker 4: big career on Fox and in right wing media. That's

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Speaker 4: that's why he wasn't wearing the mask. He wanted to

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Speaker 4: be on TV. He wanted us to recognize his face

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Speaker 4: because here's what he knew. If he makes it to

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Speaker 4: the end of the Trump presidency, he's going to be

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Speaker 4: fired by the Democratic presidency. On the first day, He's

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Speaker 4: going to be fired from that job. Okay, they don't

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Speaker 4: have to have any kind of, you know, disciplinary procedure

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Speaker 4: for him, Just fire him right on the spot, you know,

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Speaker 4: because Trump has established that the present can fire anybody,

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Speaker 4: and so that that guy would have been fired, and

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Speaker 4: then he would have gone off into the heroism of

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Speaker 4: right wing media with his recognizable face. He may have

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Speaker 4: created enough political problems for Trump and the Republican Party

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Speaker 4: that he won't be welcome in the lucrative area of

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Speaker 4: Republican propaganda. And you know, will be you know, kind

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Speaker 4: of trying to scrape the bottom of that barrel somehow,

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Speaker 4: you know, with his podcast the wait wait wait, I

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Speaker 4: didn't just say podcast that.

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Speaker 1: Man, there's money to be made here. There's money to

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Speaker 1: be made here, and especially if you're on the right,

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Speaker 1: for sure. And I do think it's a really good point,

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Speaker 1: the idea that he's not wearing a mask and that

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Speaker 1: he's sort of taking ownership of a lot of this.

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Speaker 1: And we did see this right with Bongino, where Bongino, yeah,

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Speaker 1: didn't work out so well.

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Speaker 4: You know, he was the shortest lived player. But you know, yeah,

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Speaker 4: sure Trump, By the way, to get back to your point,

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Speaker 4: Trump doesn't want to fire anybody who wants to live

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Speaker 4: by that thing of I choose the best people. He knows,

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Speaker 4: he doesn't. He knows that every single one of his

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Speaker 4: choices for this administration, every one of them was number one.

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Speaker 4: Number one. Someone who is so small and so weak

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Speaker 4: that this person will never consider turning against Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: under any circumstances. And if you're one of the cabinet

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Speaker 4: members who has a vote on the twenty fifth amendment procedure,

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Speaker 4: you've got to make sure every one of them would

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Speaker 4: never consider the twenty fifth Amendment. And he succeeded on that.

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Speaker 4: The second thing that was almost equally important for every

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Speaker 4: single choice is Donald Trump sat there and he thought,

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Speaker 4: what is the most insulting choice I can give to

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Speaker 4: this institution? How can I insult the FBI the most?

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Speaker 4: And while I'm at it, how can I insult liberals?

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Speaker 4: How can I insult Democrats? Because I hate them and

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Speaker 4: I want them to feel pain even by my choices.

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Speaker 4: And that's where every one of those choices came from.

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Speaker 4: It was he knew their NATSI nu cash but tells

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Speaker 4: a joke. But he also knew they the people I hate,

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Speaker 4: will hate this so much. I have to do it.

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Speaker 4: And so that was driving every one of these choices

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Speaker 4: all the way through UH and that's why he doesn't

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Speaker 4: want to let go of any one of them, no

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Speaker 4: matter what they do.

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Speaker 1: So there's like public Trump and he's doing stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: and then there's this a really good piece in New

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Speaker 1: York Magazine by Ben Terris, where Trump takes a call

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Speaker 1: from Ari Emmanuel about tax benefits from California for filming,

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Speaker 1: and in it he's very complimentary to Ari Emmanuel. One

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Speaker 1: of the ways that Trump has gotten so far, I

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Speaker 1: think in this administration is that he's like outright does

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Speaker 1: the white supremacist stuff, but then will sometimes make deals

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Speaker 1: with people because obviously, you know, or people feel not

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Speaker 1: even make deals. People feel that he may they could

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Speaker 1: make a deal with him. And that's why Tim Cook

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Speaker 1: is in the White House ruining himself. And that's why

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Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos, you know, is killing the Washington Post because

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Speaker 1: they think they can make it that there's some rational Trump.

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Speaker 1: Talk me through this in any which way you want.

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Speaker 4: I think those people are all talking to him because

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Speaker 4: they know there is no rational Trump. There is absolutely

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Speaker 4: no rational Trump. So if you're running Apple and you

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Speaker 4: know that these iPhones cost what they cost because they're

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Speaker 4: made in China, and you know, Donald Trump is empowering

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Speaker 4: himself illegally to create a tariff regime that is illegal

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Speaker 4: and unconstitutional, he can destroy your iPhone sales. He can

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Speaker 4: take the price of an iPhone and double it instantaneous, Okay,

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Speaker 4: so you're Tim Cook and you go in there, and

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Speaker 4: you're basically going in there to stop this irrational madman

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Speaker 4: from doubling the price of iPhones, and you do it

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Speaker 4: by giving him trinkets and gifts and just physically being there,

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Speaker 4: because you know, Trump has always been in awe of

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Speaker 4: these people who are the real masters of business and

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Speaker 4: the real richest people in the world. He's always lived

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Speaker 4: in awe of them, and even in Manhattan where he

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Speaker 4: wasn't close to the richest, not nowhere close to it,

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Speaker 4: as you know. And so there is no rational Trump.

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Speaker 4: That's why they're in there trying to do that. Tim

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Speaker 4: Cook knew that there wasn't a single day in which

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Speaker 4: Joe Biden was ever going to interfere with his business.

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Speaker 4: He knew, he knew the president doesn't have a legal

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Speaker 4: power to interfere with his business. There is no legal

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Speaker 4: power to do it. He could ignore the president, as

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Speaker 4: you should be able to. Everyone in the country should

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Speaker 4: be able to ignore the president. And so because there's

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Speaker 4: an irrational madman there, you know where China is the

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Speaker 4: worst thing in the world, and we have to bring

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Speaker 4: all the jobs back here. The guy who's got the

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Speaker 4: biggest money making operation going in China selling stuff in

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Speaker 4: the United States is Tim Cook and he went in

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Speaker 4: and exempted it completely from everything Trump was trying to do.

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Speaker 4: And so, no, the iPhone factories are not coming back

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Speaker 4: to Montana. You know that's not going to happen because

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Speaker 4: the irrational madmen was you know, persuaded by the charm

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Speaker 4: of a guy whose corporate duty, not necessarily civic duty

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Speaker 4: or moral duty is to shareholders, and he represented his

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Speaker 4: shareholders well in basically, you know, tricking the irrational madmen

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Speaker 4: into exempting the biggest thing you know, that we get

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Speaker 4: from China in our lives.

433
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: I just want you to talk about when we look

434
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: at this polling and the way people are speaking out. Finally,

435
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: it feels like killing two white citizens may have been

436
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: a tipping point for Americans at this moment. What do

437
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: you think about this? And and for them to just

438
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: sort of lose the I mean, they've really turned normal

439
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: against this. Are you surprised? What's your thoughts on this?

440
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 4: Uh? These are the kinds of events that do change positions.

441
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 4: They don't they don't exactly change minds. What they do

442
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 4: is they change the strength of a grip on a position.

443
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 4: You know, I watched as a kid in the nineteen sixties,

444
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 4: you know, hardcore racists, you know, go from hardcore racists

445
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 4: and using the N word, you know, for everything, to

446
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 4: by nineteen seventy five not using that word anymore. You know,

447
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 4: it took maybe fifteen years of trying to convince those

448
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 4: people not to use that word. And what was happening

449
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: was at first they were realizing, oh, I just can't

450
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 4: get caught using that word. I can use it with

451
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 4: some people, you know, But I actually watched it get

452
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 4: to the point where it was extinguished from their vocabulary.

453
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 4: And so what that was was the loosening of the

454
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 4: grip of the of the concept. And protests did that,

455
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 4: and sacrifice did that. In Assassin did that, and so

456
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 4: Martin Luther King's life was not lost in vain. And

457
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 4: I wish I had it in front of me at

458
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 4: the moment, but I read it in full last night

459
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 4: on the show. And that is the parent's statement, Alex

460
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 4: Pretty's parents statement, and they have a sentence in the

461
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 4: middle of it about the significance of Alex Pretty's contribution

462
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 4: to where we are right now and what is possible

463
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 4: from this point forward, and I think we are seeing that.

464
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 4: I think we will see it for a very long

465
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: time to come. And this is the way protest works.

466
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 4: The history of protest, just during my lifetime in this

467
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 4: country and certainly before the history of it is that

468
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 4: if it's a serious protest about a serious thing, it

469
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 4: takes a long time. It's not a quick action. It

470
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 4: takes a long time. And if it's a serious protest

471
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 4: about a serious thing civil rights, Vietnam and now Donald

472
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 4: Trump's invasion of America, people will die in that protest.

473
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 4: And those are the three characteristics of those kinds of protests.

474
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 4: They take a long time, they are difficult, people will die,

475
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 4: and the most important thing they work, they succeed in

476
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: the end. And there isn't one of those major protests

477
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 4: that did not succeed in the end. And so we

478
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 4: are headed for a different place on this subject of immigration,

479
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 4: on this subject of border control, and it might and

480
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 4: it's not going to be next week. And it's not

481
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: going to be because of anything Donald Trump does or

482
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 4: doesn't do in Minneapolis. It's not going to be because

483
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 4: Donald Trump takes his invasion forces out of Minneapolis. It's

484
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 4: going to be because there's a present of a different

485
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 4: party three years from now, and that will partially be because

486
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 4: of what is happening in Minneapolis. This is part of

487
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 4: what will drive the victory of the Democratic candidate in

488
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 4: the next presidential election. And that is when the real

489
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 4: work on the real solution to the new way we

490
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 4: should live in relation to this subject will begin. It

491
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: won't begin before that because of the Trump regime and

492
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 4: because of the Republicans in Congress, but it will begin

493
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 4: three years from now. It's not going to be quick,

494
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 4: it's going to be long, but it is going to

495
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: be successful.

496
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. Lawrence ben Terris is a reporter

497
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: at New York Magazine. Welcome back to First Politics, ben.

498
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: Terris, thanks for having me.

499
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so you wrote this really expansive piece, the kind

500
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: of long form journalism that I love about Donald Trump's health,

501
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: and the title is I think magnificent, and I would

502
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: love you to talk us through first why you decided

503
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: to write this piece.

504
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

505
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I have this great job in

506
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 5: New York Magazine where I'm given enough time to try

507
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 5: to answer big, complicated, thorny questions and at the end

508
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 5: of last year and still today, but at the end

509
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 5: of last year, when I was setting out to do

510
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 5: my next story, one of the thorniest and biggest questions

511
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 5: there was was, is Donald Trump okay? You know, we'd

512
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 5: all seen the bruises on his hands, We'd seen him

513
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 5: kind of nodding off in meetings, seen him with swollen

514
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 5: ankles and just not looking great. Plus we had had

515
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 5: a previous president whose health was obviously a very big concern,

516
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 5: and there's been a lot of talk in the press

517
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 5: about whether it took too long for people to get

518
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 5: on that story. I wanted to make sure we were

519
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 5: not late on another story about another old president aging

520
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 5: in front of our eyes. I got this task, which

521
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 5: felt like an unenviable task when I was assigned this,

522
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 5: because it's like, this is impossible.

523
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: How am I going to get anywhere near Donald Trump?

524
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 5: How am I going to get anyone who spends any

525
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 5: time with Donald Trump to talk to me, you know,

526
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 5: whether on the record or on back.

527
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 3: And so that's sort of how it started, and then

528
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 3: it just snowballed. As I was working on it.

529
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 5: It turned out getting to Donald Trump was possible, and

530
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 5: getting people around him to talk to me was in

531
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 5: some ways easier than I expected.

532
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, One of the things in this piece that's so

533
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: interesting is that everyone wants to talk to you. Trump

534
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: wants to talk to you. Doctors want to talk to you,

535
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: or his doctors want to talk to you. His staff

536
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: wants to talk to you. Marco Rubio wants to talk

537
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: to you. First, I want you to explain why you

538
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: think everyone wanted to talk to you.

539
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 5: I mean, I think the answer to that is relatively

540
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,719
Speaker 5: easy if you understand Donald Trump at all or his administration,

541
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 5: which is there is really no downside to sucking up

542
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 5: to the boss. And so if you have the opportunity

543
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 5: and are asked by top staff to go speak to

544
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 5: the press on behalf of the president, to talk about

545
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,719
Speaker 5: how healthy he is, to give anecdotes about how you

546
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 5: can't keep up with him. How you know he never

547
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 5: sleeps on Air Force one, But Marco Rubio needs to sleep,

548
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: so he hides himself in a blanket.

549
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: Pathetic story, I mean, talk about ruining yourself. So the

550
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: part of the story is Marco Rubio tells this story

551
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: about how on Air Force one, Donald Trump stays up

552
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: the entire time to work and he needs to sleep,

553
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: so he goes and hides.

554
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, he hides from a nearly eighty year old man

555
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 5: by wrapping himself in a blanket like a mummy, he said,

556
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 5: covering his head. Even did like a little, you know,

557
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 5: impression of what it would look like to cover himself

558
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 5: with a blanket. He pantomimed it for me. But he

559
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 5: doesn't want to be seen by the president sleeping because

560
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 5: he doesn't want to be seen as weak. And so,

561
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 5: you know, to me, these stories are kind of like, man,

562
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 5: I can't believe these people.

563
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: Are debasing themselves in the press.

564
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 5: But there is no penalty for debasing yourselves if you're

565
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 5: complimenting the boss, and there might be a penalty if

566
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 5: you're not seen as loyal enough in Trump's Washington. And

567
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 5: so a lot of people were very willing to tell

568
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 5: me about how unbelievably strong and powerful and healthy and

569
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 5: energetic the president is so much so they can't even

570
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 5: keep up with him. And you know, it's kind of

571
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 5: veep like it was kind of death of Stalin. Like

572
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 5: I think that these people believe it to a degree.

573
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 5: I don't think they're fully lying. I think it probably

574
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 5: is difficult to keep up with President Trump sometimes, and

575
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 5: so they have this ability to tell a story that

576
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 5: makes their boss look good, makes them look kind of bad.

577
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 5: And you know in Trump's Trump's love language is kind

578
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 5: of exaggeration, right, and.

579
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 3: So you can't exaggerate too much.

580
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 5: You can't call him too healthy, you can't call you

581
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 5: basically can call him a mortal. And then you get

582
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 5: to show the boss. Look, this is how much I have,

583
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 5: how much loyalty I have for you.

584
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the Ari Manual question, because

585
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: poor ari Emanual wanders in to this story. Do you

586
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: think that this was what he had wanted for himself?

587
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: And explain how he gets into this story.

588
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. So for the story, I end up in the

589
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: Oval office.

590
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 5: I get an interview with Donald Trump, his two doctors

591
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 5: from Walter Reader with me, Caroline Levitt is with me.

592
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: I did not expect the doctors to be there. That

593
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 3: was a surprise.

594
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 5: I showed up to this interview and the two doctors

595
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 5: were standing there holding pieces of paper that said talking points.

596
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: They obviously had things they needed to get through to me.

597
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: Was Natalie Harp there? She was there.

598
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 5: She was in the back of the office printing out

599
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 5: tweets that Trump brought up in pictures of him winning

600
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: golf tournaments and all the stuff that you hear about happening,

601
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 5: and it was kind of wild to see, to be honest,

602
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 5: and so all that, I mean, even the doctor was unexpected,

603
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 5: but all that was like part of the show that

604
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 5: they had put on for me. A lot of this

605
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 5: story is me feeling like an audience of one for

606
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,239
Speaker 5: a series of plays that were put on to you know,

607
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 5: a dear leader plays just to.

608
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 3: Show how healthy the president is, just for me to watch.

609
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 5: And Ari Emmanuel was sort of like a surprise cameo

610
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 5: that I don't think was even part of their production,

611
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 5: so to speak. You know, Trump is the kind of

612
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 5: guy who picks up the phone a lot. I don't

613
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 5: know if you've been hearing about this, but journalists can

614
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 5: call him in the middle of the night and he'll

615
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 5: pick up unknown numbers. If people get his number, they

616
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 5: can call him and he'll often pick up and have

617
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 5: a conversation. And so while I'm in this interview with Trump,

618
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 5: his phone rings and he shows me the phone, and

619
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 5: on the phone it says Ari Emmanuel, who I know

620
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 5: to be the super agent from Hollywood. You know, Jeremy

621
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 5: Pitten character from Entourage, Ram Emmanuel's brother who's running for

622
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 5: president and he just picks up the phone.

623
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 3: It's like, let me take this, and he says, oh,

624
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 3: it's the great.

625
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 5: Ari Emmanuel listen, Ari, I got this journalist from New

626
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 5: York magazine.

627
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 3: Here.

628
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 5: He's writing a story about my health. Can you tell

629
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 5: him how healthy I am? That's basically what he says.

630
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 5: Ari Emmanuel's calling to talk about, you know, tax rebates

631
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 5: or whatever for Hollywood, and all of a sudden he's

632
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 5: on the spot talking to a journalist about how healthy

633
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 5: Trump is. And his response was basically, look, I've represented

634
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 5: him for nine years. He seems okay to me, seems normal,

635
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 5: seems with it. And then you have this kind of caveat,

636
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 5: which is like, I haven't seen him in five years,

637
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 5: but you know, he seems all right, which is kind

638
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 5: of a big caveat when you're talking about somebody's health.

639
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: But the oldest president ever also works pointing.

640
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 3: Out, yeah, he's an old man. I mean he just is.

641
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. That moment is one of the great moments. Wonder

642
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: if you could talk about autocracy and when you talk

643
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: about death of Stalin, there is a sense in this administration.

644
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 1: It was true in the first Trump administration, but it's

645
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: really exaggerated now that anything less than prostrating yourself to

646
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: the monarch is really subversive. Do you see that when

647
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: you were there?

648
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean this is you know, this is absolutely

649
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 5: what was happening, right. I mean, if people had come

650
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 5: to me and said, Donald Trump is healthy for an

651
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 5: eighty year old man, he's certainly healthy enough to be president.

652
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 5: Has he slowed down a step or two since he

653
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 5: was sixty five years old, Sure, but you know he's

654
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 5: doing great, and like there shouldn't be any question that

655
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,479
Speaker 5: he is capable of leading this country.

656
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 3: If they'd said that, that would have been, you know,

657
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 3: within the realm of possibility.

658
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 5: But instead, every single conversation I had was about how

659
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 5: he's the healthiest man in the entire world.

660
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 3: Basically healthier than Obama, healthier than Obama.

661
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 5: Trump told me he's healthier than he was forty years ago,

662
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 5: which is like hard to believe. And this has a

663
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 5: lot to do with control, right, Donald Trump wants to

664
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 5: be in complete control. Anytime there's any chink in his armor,

665
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 5: he pushes back so much harder than any kind of

666
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 5: normal person would. And you know, in this case, it meant, Look,

667
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 5: we can't just say I'm okay, because that lets the

668
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 5: people who think I'm dying, you know, get to move

669
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 5: the ball forward a little bit. We need to push

670
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 5: back so hard that there's no question that I'm healthy.

671
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 5: It's not just that I'm healthy, it's that I'm healthier

672
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 5: than ever. And you know, this is a guy who

673
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 5: seems to be kind of grasping for control more than

674
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 5: he was even the first time around. You know, he's

675
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 5: been called a lame duck president already by pundits, even

676
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 5: though it's you know, we're just coming into a second year.

677
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 5: The polling has not been good for him. The midterms

678
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 5: aren't looking like they're going to be good for him.

679
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 5: Immigration is top policy is not going well for him

680
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 5: right now, and so he's desperate to be in control.

681
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 5: And one place that he's trying to exert it is

682
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 5: over the story about how healthy he is.

683
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: One of the things that you talk about is this sleeping.

684
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: It reminds me a lot of what we saw in Minnesota.

685
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: So you see a video of Donald Trump nodding off,

686
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: and you know it's a video of someone nodding off,

687
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: because you're alive on this planet and you've seen people

688
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: not off, and they tell you what do they tell you?

689
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: And you see where I'm going with this because in Minnesota,

690
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: we all saw what happened with Alex and we saw

691
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: that he had been chot, that the gun was taken

692
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: from him, and he was shot by these ice officers.

693
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: Bought we were told by the administration something completely different.

694
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: So talk us through the sleeping because I feel like

695
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: it's relevant.

696
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 5: I had a really interesting moment reporting the story where

697
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 5: I went to the White House for the day that

698
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 5: Trump had his like two and a half hour long

699
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 5: cabinet meeting, where every member of the cabinet was like,

700
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 5: thank you, mister president, for being the greatest president of

701
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 5: all time. Christinom you know, she made a joke, but

702
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 5: like the joke, it kind of got at something that

703
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 5: everybody was doing there, which was her saying, thank you

704
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 5: for stopping the hurricanes. You know, we've had no hurricanes

705
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 5: this year. Thank you for stopping the hurricanes, which is

706
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 5: a joke. But also, like I said, like this is

707
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 5: sort of how they treat him, right.

708
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 1: It's firing North Korea, right.

709
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 5: And so during this endless meeting, Donald Trump his eyes

710
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 5: close multiple times and he appears to dose, right, and

711
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 5: everybody sees that it becomes a big thing on Twitter, big

712
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 5: thing on social media. And shortly after that meeting is over,

713
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 5: I'm called into Caroline Levitt's office and I have an

714
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 5: interview with her and Will Sharf, who is the staff secretary,

715
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 5: the guy who controls the paper in the White House.

716
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 5: He's working in kind of constant contact with Donald Trump.

717
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 5: And he's telling me in this interview, like not to

718
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 5: believe what I saw with my own eyes. You know, no, no, no,

719
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 5: he wasn't dozing. That's his you know, listening mechanism, is

720
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 5: what Caroline Levitt said. Will Sharf tells me, oh, I

721
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 5: was his lawyer during the Trump trials and the same

722
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 5: thing would happen. But really he's sometimes taking notes in

723
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 5: his lap, or he's kind of closing his eyes so

724
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 5: we can hear better. I've seen him when he's sleepy,

725
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 5: and that's not him sleepy. Like I know what he

726
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 5: looks like when he's sleepy, and it doesn't look like that,

727
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 5: which is an insane thing to say, because that is

728
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 5: what everyone looks like when they're sleepy. When you're sleepy,

729
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 5: your eyes closed, I mean, this is what it looks like.

730
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 5: And so I'm told to believe that he is the

731
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 5: most active man alive, even though I've seen otherwise with

732
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 5: my own eyes, you know. Carolin Levitt then tries to

733
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 5: tell me a story that Donald Trump has so much

734
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 5: energy that the Marines who stand outside of the Oval

735
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 5: office while he's working need back up because they can't

736
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 5: keep up with his schedule. He's working so hard for

737
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 5: the American people that even the elite members of the

738
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 5: military can't keep up with this man. And you know,

739
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 5: maybe maybe it's true, maybe he is working long hours

740
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 5: and the Marines are getting tired, But also it seems

741
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 5: to be true that he's getting sleepy in these meetings.

742
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: I think what's most important about the story is that

743
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: Donald Trump then tells you these meetings are really boring.

744
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

745
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 5: He says that they're boring as hell, and yeah, I

746
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 5: got to close my mind. He says that he's not sleeping,

747
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 5: and you can tell he's not sleeping because he does

748
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 5: this thing with his hand. He like moves his hand

749
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 5: around so people can see he's awake, which I don't know.

750
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: You know, they're lying when they change the story. So

751
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: like he's active listening, he's listening. It's boring. Like, you know,

752
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: that's how you can tell when a liar who's good

753
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: a lying lies.

754
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 5: And I just think that there's a world in which

755
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 5: the most relatable thing about Donald Trump possible is that

756
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 5: he falls asleep while Marco Rubio was talking to him.

757
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 5: You know, like if he just said from the get go,

758
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 5: these things are boring, I don't want to listen to

759
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 5: these guys I talk forever, I'd be like, yeah, you

760
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 5: know what, Like I can kind of relate. I watched

761
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 5: this endless meeting too. In my eyes, probably we're closing too,

762
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 5: like that you can relate on that. But the fact

763
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 5: that they yeah, you're right, that they have to have

764
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 5: a different story depending on who tells it.

765
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: You know, he's telling So you're.

766
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: In that White House, and you know there are things

767
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: that he has that Biden did not have. Right, the

768
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: bruises on the hands, that is something we have not

769
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: seen in president. And they're making up the bruises and

770
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: they're telling us it's because his skin is so sensitive.

771
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: But like I shake a lot of hands. Let the

772
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: record show I am showing you Bruslow's hands. And then

773
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: you have the cankels, right, the big ankles. Do you

774
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: feel like they had a real answer for that.

775
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, I feel like they had a real answer.

776
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 4: You know.

777
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 5: They talk about how he takes way too much aspirin basically,

778
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 5: like he's taking more aspirin than any like adult man

779
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 5: should be taking on a daily basis, and that causes bruising.

780
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 5: And the doctors keep telling him, don't take so much

781
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 5: like aspirin.

782
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: Because of his very thin blood.

783
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 5: Yes, no, that's right, he wants thin blood, he said,

784
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 5: not thick blood, thin blood. And sure, if you take

785
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 5: that much aspirin, do you bruises ear? And then when

786
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 5: you shake hands or like clang into a table by accident,

787
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 5: do you bruises ear? Yeah, it's totally possible, Like it

788
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 5: is a totally possible explanation.

789
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: And the doctors told me that's what was going on.

790
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 5: And the thing that this story I think was important

791
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 5: about this story is not that I could get to

792
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 5: the bottom of this health because getting to the bottom

793
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 5: of anybody's health is very difficult unless you literally are

794
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 5: the doctor right or if they are the.

795
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: Way a president's supposed to be, where they share all

796
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: their information with you. I mean, there was no mystery

797
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: about Barack Obama's house. Even Bill Clinton, no mystery.

798
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 5: Right, And so I think what's I'm trying to show

799
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 5: in this story is that in a normal world, if

800
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 5: you sit down with a president and his doctors and

801
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 5: they say something to you, you go, yeah, that's probably right.

802
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 5: I mean, like, you know, these are high ranking doctors

803
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,479
Speaker 5: who've worked their way up to you know, Walter Reed,

804
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 5: and they and they're taking care of the president of

805
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 5: the United States. You'd like them to be trustworthy. But

806
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 5: in this world where everybody is speaking about Donald Trump

807
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 5: in a very you know, particular way, you just can't

808
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 5: fully trust them. And so, yes, is it possible that's

809
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 5: what's happening with his hands?

810
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 4: Sure?

811
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 5: Would I bet my life on it not lying to

812
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 5: me or kind of evading the truth or exaggerating things.

813
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: No, I just can't know for sure.

814
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 5: And so what I can show is Donald Trump has

815
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 5: created a little parallel universe for himself where everybody says

816
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 5: exactly what he.

817
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 3: Wants to say. Sometimes that's total truth telling, sometimes it

818
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 3: might not be. It's really hard to know, you know,

819
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 3: which is which.

820
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: At this point, what's the story with the ankles.

821
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 5: He has a circulatory issue that they've announced, and basically

822
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 5: he just needs to walk more, is my understanding, and

823
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 5: if you walk more, your circulation gets better and the

824
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 5: you know, the cankel issue goes away.

825
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 3: He doesn't want to walk more, and so I think,

826
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: you know, in my story, I.

827
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 5: Report that he asks staff if there's anything else he

828
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 5: could do instead, which sort of seems like the lowest

829
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 5: bar for trying to keep yourself healthy is like will

830
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 5: you walk some more steps?

831
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 3: But you know, he as.

832
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 5: Has been reported before, you know, he believes that the

833
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 5: human body is like a battery with a finite amount

834
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 5: of energy, and if you if you start exercising, like

835
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 5: the you know, you u zapp your energy quicker than

836
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 5: you would if you just sit around.

837
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: The moment where he says that my father was incredibly

838
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: healthy but then he got the thing in his brain

839
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: and he points to his head and then he needs

840
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: to be told that it's Alzheimer's. When that happened, were

841
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: you like, oh my.

842
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 5: God, yeah, I mean for sure, as a feature writer,

843
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 5: I was like, well, there's a moment, right, like, here's

844
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 5: a guy who can sit for forty minutes and talk

845
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 5: about a bunch of stuff, but like you can see

846
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 5: a brain fart happen, and it's kind of surprising when

847
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 5: you see that happen with the president of the United States.

848
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: Especially about Alzheimer's, so a little on the.

849
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 5: Nose exactly, it was very on the nose. Does that

850
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 5: mean he has Alzheimer's? No, I don't know, but it

851
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 5: certainly was the kind of thing where it's like, Okay, well,

852
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 5: that's something that's going to make it into the story

853
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 5: because it feels like an important moment.

854
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, though, pretty incredible that we're in a

855
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: moment like this. The story is really not about his house, right,

856
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: His story is about is this a white house that

857
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: lives on earth? On Earth too? Right?

858
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 5: I don't write about this too much in the story,

859
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 5: but it's very easy to see how this story relates

860
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 5: to everything else that's going on, right, which is not

861
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 5: to put him on the couch, not to psychoanalyze the

862
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 5: president here, but if he's seen as weak, then he

863
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 5: is weak. If he's seen as you know, unhealthy, then

864
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 5: his presidency has seen as unhealthy. Some of these moves

865
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 5: that seem like real strong man type moves, you know

866
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 5: Venezuela or what's happening in Minnesota. I mean, you know,

867
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 5: you can see a world where it's like Wow, I

868
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 5: don't want to be seen as weak. Let's do the

869
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 5: strongest thing I can possibly do.

870
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean just wild Ben Terras, thank.

871
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 3: Yelle, thanks for having me.

872
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 4: No mo.

873
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon.

874
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 2: Let me do you a little social media update. Yesterday,

875
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 2: TikTok under the new leadership of the Ellisons, it had

876
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 2: a little data outage. They claim. Many people are showing

877
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: that you can't say the word Epstein and DMS anymore,

878
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: you can't talk badly of mister Trump, I er Israel,

879
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 2: and as well over on our other social media overwards

880
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: meta which includes Instagram, threads and Facebook, they're suppressing what

881
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 2: is called the ice list.

882
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so explain what's happening over TikTok because it got

883
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: bought by allies of Donald Trump.

884
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so Oracle is the controlling share of it,

885
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: which is a deep, deep ally of Trump. And also

886
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: who we can blame for CBS News is Shift.

887
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: David Ellison and his dad Larry, Yes, go on.

888
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 2: Shift towards the most ridiculous coverage of this administration possible,

889
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: where their main news anchor basically says to mister Trump,

890
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: how did you get so beautiful? So now the new

891
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 2: president of TikTok did a talk and they basically said

892
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: they were going to do a lot of this, particularly

893
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 2: the suppression of news out of Gaza. And so they're

894
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 2: acting accordingly as they promised, and they're going to be

895
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 2: very bold. But what's interesting is I think they're going

896
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: to overplay their hand. A bit Oracle is apparently not

897
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: in the best financial shape after doing lots of acquisitions,

898
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: and if people run from TikTok after they bought it

899
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 2: for a very oversized price and over valued price, they

900
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: can be at a lot of trouble. And what we're

901
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: seeing is a ton of people left yesterday. I mean

902
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 2: I had friends with hundreds of thousands of followers who

903
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: were like I'm out.

904
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people left TikTok because TikTok did,

905
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: in fact juice the algorithm make it so that content

906
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: was suppressed. And it's funny because I think about, like

907
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: my own experience on Threads, there was a point during

908
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: the twenty four cycle when Threads throttled all political content.

909
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: People just didn't use it, they didn't need it, they

910
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: didn't care. It looks like that's what's happening with TikTok.

911
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as for what's happening on Meta. What a

912
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 2: lot of people fear is that you're just not going

913
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: to be able to discuss any form of resistance on

914
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: there anymore. And you know, with Cash Betel saying he's

915
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 2: watching signal chats, it really makes people wonder how they organize.

916
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it really does. I wonder first of all,

917
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: what people will take because there are now threats. There's Instagram,

918
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: there's Facebook, there's TikTok, and there's blue Sky. You know, Meta,

919
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 1: I understand, really does have problems and is really part

920
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: of the evil Empire, and so is Acts and so

921
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: is Tiptop now, but you can always go to blue Sky.

922
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to be there. You can

923
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: always go you know, there's sort of enough places now

924
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: where you don't have to stay in one place. And

925
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: there's also Reddit too.

926
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 4: Yeah.

927
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: I think blue Sky is the best match. But some

928
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 2: people are also going to this app called upscroll that

929
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: promises a similar promise to Blue Sky. Yeah.

930
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: So, and the other thing is, like, remember Instagram, it

931
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: grew organically, So what will happened now is that there'll

932
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: be another one of these social media platforms that will grow.

933
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: These platforms exist because there are people on them one.

934
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

935
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Sad to hear the best

936
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

937
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

938
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.