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Speaker 1: Performance psychology is about getting to the next level of

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Speaker 1: whatever it is you want to improve in your lives.

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Speaker 1: There's some study out there that shows that we're capable

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Speaker 1: of pushing ourselves forty percent more than we think. I

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Speaker 1: call it the MVP process. The M standing for mindfulness,

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Speaker 1: the V stands for visualization, and the P stands for

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Speaker 1: that positive coaching. I love evolutionary psychology. So much of

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Speaker 1: what we do is rooted in the dawn of human civilization.

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Speaker 1: The way we bonded with each other was by walking together,

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Speaker 1: by running together, by traveling together, moving side by side together.

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Speaker 1: When you're running, it allows you to access a part

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Speaker 1: of yourself below conscious awareness. Hypnosis is extremely powerful tool

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Speaker 1: that we have inside of us.

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Speaker 2: When a lot of people hear the term hypnosis, they

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Speaker 2: think woo woo.

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Speaker 3: So what do people get wrong about hypnosis?

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Speaker 1: You are always in control.

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Speaker 2: Hi guys, it's your host, Kate Max and welcome back

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Speaker 2: to post run High. We have a really special guest today,

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Speaker 2: my mother in law, doctor Dana Libo, who has been

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Speaker 2: a psychologist and performance coach for over thirty years. Dana

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Speaker 2: is also a marathon runner. She started running marathons at

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Speaker 2: fifty five years old and has since run over eighteen marathons. Now,

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Speaker 2: I just want to take a moment before we get

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Speaker 2: into today's episode to say thank you guys so much

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Speaker 2: for listening to our show.

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Speaker 3: It really means.

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Speaker 2: The world to us, and your listening ship and support

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Speaker 2: helps us continue bringing you inspiring conversations.

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Speaker 3: All we want is to add.

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Speaker 2: Value to your lives, and I really think this episode

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Speaker 2: with Dana is going.

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Speaker 3: To do just that.

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Speaker 2: Without further ado, we're going to take a short break

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Speaker 2: and get into our episode with doctor Dana Libo.

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Speaker 3: What is up, guys, Welcome back to Post Run High.

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Speaker 2: I am sitting here today with my mother in law,

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Speaker 2: doctor Dana Libo. She is a psychologist that has been

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Speaker 2: practicing for over thirty years.

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Speaker 1: Dana, how are you. I'm doing great, Kate, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so thrilled and honored to be here. I've been watching

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Speaker 1: you for well a little less than thirty years, but

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Speaker 1: just always before I go to bed at night, I

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Speaker 1: watch Post Run High just a few minutes. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of my ritual now and I am definitely one of

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Speaker 1: your biggest fans.

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Speaker 2: Well, I am so excited to have you on Post

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Speaker 2: Run High. We've had you on our Running Interview Show

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Speaker 2: quite a bit. So those of you that watch our

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Speaker 2: Running Interview Show are definitely familiar with Dana and her story,

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Speaker 2: and today we just have the opportunity to go a

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Speaker 2: little bit deeper with you, which I'm super excited about.

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Speaker 2: So we are doing a little bit of an extended

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Speaker 2: post run High episode, and that is because we ran yesterday.

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Speaker 3: We kind of did a run walk, if I'm being honest.

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Speaker 2: But we did a run walk yesterday and it was

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Speaker 2: eighty four degrees. It was eighty four degrees. We're here

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Speaker 2: in California on a family trip. But now a few

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Speaker 2: hours later we are sitting down for our post rind

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Speaker 2: High episode. So how are you feeling.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling great, Yeah, yeah, after my morning coffee and

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Speaker 1: sitting here with you ready to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the coffee is important, It sure is. So, Dana,

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Speaker 2: the last time we saw you, or my audience saw you,

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Speaker 2: was at the New York City Marathon where you fell

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Speaker 2: around mile twelve and broke your arm. Can you talk

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Speaker 2: to us a little bit about what happened during the

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Speaker 2: race and then what happened after.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was a point Kate where the roads kind

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Speaker 1: of converged there was a lot more people kind of

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Speaker 1: crammed together on a narrower road, and I was running

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Speaker 1: with this wonderful pacing group and trying to make sure

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Speaker 1: not to lose the head pacer. And one guy was

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Speaker 1: running around encouraging everybody, and he put his arm around

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Speaker 1: my shoulder while we were running, and he's like, you're

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Speaker 1: doing great, keep going. Just threw me off balance a little.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was a pothole or what.

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Speaker 1: The ground was uneven. We were packed in like sardines

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Speaker 1: and just happened so quickly. I went flying, and I remember,

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Speaker 1: thank God for my arm because that's what stopped me

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Speaker 1: from hitting my head on the ground. And the thing is,

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Speaker 1: though I knew something was wrong, but what went through

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Speaker 1: my head immediately was You've got to finish the race.

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Speaker 1: You've got to finish the race. And here I'm lying

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Speaker 1: on the road. I think a couple people had stopped

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Speaker 1: to prevent me from being trampled, but I just lucked out.

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Speaker 1: I lucked out because there was a volunteer on the

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Speaker 1: side of the road. She brought me to the med

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Speaker 1: tent and it was only like half a mile away.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I fell at a great spot for support

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Speaker 1: and help. And there were two sports medicine doctors. I

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Speaker 1: knew it was bad when a couple things. They said,

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Speaker 1: when you get to the er, if they offer you morphine,

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Speaker 1: take it. And and they also said, in response to

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Speaker 1: my pushing to can I go? Can I go? I

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Speaker 1: want to? I want to. I wanted to meet you

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Speaker 1: guys at mile sixteen and I wanted to cross that

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Speaker 1: finish line. I think that's what goes through any marathon

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Speaker 1: runner's head. I mean, you're there to finish that race,

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Speaker 1: come hell or high water. And they said, look, you

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Speaker 1: could die if you keep running, and then explained, you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't know how badly the bones were broken that

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Speaker 1: anyway I could have cut into a vein or something

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Speaker 1: with a jagabut. I mean, too much information, I know,

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Speaker 1: but they they convinced me that it was not safe

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Speaker 1: to keep going. So they were wonderful though, put me

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Speaker 1: in aneuver to the er, and I was just blown away.

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Speaker 1: I know, you and Jeremy came and you took pictures

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Speaker 1: of those X rays, and then my daughters pickleball partners.

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Speaker 1: Brother in law was a top hand surgeon and Maryland

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Speaker 1: and he's seeing the X rays that you took pictures

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Speaker 1: of just a few minutes later, and then they are

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Speaker 1: being sent to someone at Duke University who was his

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Speaker 1: best friend as a resident years ago, and he was

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Speaker 1: a top hand surgeon in North Carolina where we live.

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Speaker 1: I just lucked out. Within a couple of days, I

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Speaker 1: was in surgery and as you could see, cast is off.

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Speaker 1: Even though I do have to wear it. I have

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Speaker 1: to wear it when I run and just to be safe.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I was able to do the Turkey trop

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Speaker 1: and even though the hand surgeon said to me, don't

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Speaker 1: try to win the race overall, don't try to get

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Speaker 1: a PR, I did win my age group. And then

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Speaker 1: a couple weeks later I ran another race. The Turkey

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Speaker 1: Trot was five miles. This one was a ten k,

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Speaker 1: and I won my age group. There. I guess when

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Speaker 1: you get older the competition does than a little. But

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Speaker 1: I was able to run more slowly and still win,

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Speaker 1: so that feels good. I needed to cross the finish

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Speaker 1: line again, and so I've been able to do that

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Speaker 1: a couple times since the fall.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Think runners are definitely built different. It's like something goes wrong,

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Speaker 2: something happens and all us runners want to do is

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Speaker 2: get back out there and be able to.

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Speaker 3: Go for a run again.

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Speaker 2: And I've been in similar situations where I've been injured,

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Speaker 2: where I've had knee injuries, where I have to wait

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Speaker 2: and wait and wait to get back out there and

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Speaker 2: go for a run, And there really is nothing like it.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like going through these types of injuries

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Speaker 2: makes you appreciate having a healthy body and being able

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Speaker 2: to run so much more.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, And I think that's it right there, Kate.

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Speaker 1: You don't realize how much we take for granted when

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Speaker 1: we're fully healthy and you know everything is working. But

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Speaker 1: when something goes wrong, you know, it just makes us

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Speaker 1: appreciate how we've got to take care of it. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think there's a lot of runners who

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Speaker 1: there's always something, especially as you get older. There's always

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Speaker 1: something that is bothering you. Whether it's the achilles or

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Speaker 1: the calf muscle, or you know, a hip has just

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Speaker 1: a few months left before it needs to be replaced.

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Speaker 1: There's always something.

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Speaker 3: There's always something.

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Speaker 2: And I liked what you said when you were talking

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Speaker 2: about what happened during the race. You said, come hell

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Speaker 2: or high water as a marathon runner. You want to

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Speaker 2: finish that race. And obviously this was a unique situation.

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Speaker 2: You fell, you broke your arm. You had to get

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Speaker 2: a couple screws and metal plates put into your arm,

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Speaker 2: so this was a serious injury. But I'm sure there's

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Speaker 2: been times in your eighteen plus marathons that you've had

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Speaker 2: leg cramps or things that happened that made you want

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Speaker 2: to stop, and you've been able to push yourself through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. I think you're getting at Kate what

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Speaker 1: every on our faces, whether you're long distance running or

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Speaker 1: even if you're running a five k or ten k,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, I think you reach a point or

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Speaker 1: at some point in the race where you hit a wall.

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Speaker 1: Walls are famous in marathons. They usually happen around mile

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Speaker 1: twenty one or something. I've had the wall hit me

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Speaker 1: at mile eleven and you just are running, thinking every

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Speaker 1: bone in my body, every ten in every muscle is

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Speaker 1: screaming stop and you just want to curl up on

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Speaker 1: the side of the road fetal position. But you've got

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Speaker 1: to psych yourself in that moment. And I know you've

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Speaker 1: been through it too. I've seen your documentary and you

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Speaker 1: just I think it's a combination of I call it

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Speaker 1: the MVP process. I mean we all think of MVP,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a famous acronym. But I like to

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Speaker 1: think of the M stand for mindfulness, which just kind

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Speaker 1: of take a few deep breaths. The V stands for visualization.

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Speaker 1: You visualize something that keeps you going, and it's different

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Speaker 1: for everybody. You could have like fifteen or twenty things

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Speaker 1: that you might visualize that psyche you up in that moment.

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Speaker 1: And the piece stands for that positive coaching that you,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of stand outside yourself and coach yourself.

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Speaker 1: You've got this, stay in it. You know you can

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Speaker 1: do it. You know you can push through this, just

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Speaker 1: keep going. And so combination of those three things, everybody

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Speaker 1: can kind of tailor it to themselves. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: for the mindfulness piece, I kind of look around and

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Speaker 1: remind myself to enjoy what I'm doing, to take in

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Speaker 1: the sounds of the roaring crowds, to feel the rhythm

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Speaker 1: of the run, the pace, the beat of even my heart.

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Speaker 1: As I'm running, you kind of get into a music.

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Speaker 1: And so that's the M for mindfuls. And then the

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Speaker 1: I visualize, I mean I have so many things I visualize.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll visualize someone I know who's not doing so well,

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Speaker 1: and you know, maybe is ill or has an injury,

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Speaker 1: and I think I'm running for you. You know, I'll

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Speaker 1: imagine that I'm carrying them with me, and that really

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Speaker 1: gets me going, just to think I can. I'm still vertical,

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Speaker 1: I can keep running, and so you know, for some people,

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Speaker 1: it might be visualizing even the finish line. There's actually

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Speaker 1: been studies that show that runners who think about the

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Speaker 1: finish line visualize it as the running It actually helps

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Speaker 1: them speed up and keep going. So i might be

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Speaker 1: at mile sixteen and I'm imagining that finish line and

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Speaker 1: what it's going to feel like when I cross over it,

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Speaker 1: so that that gives me that little boost. And then

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Speaker 1: just kind of the things I say to myself, Dana,

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Speaker 1: you've been here before. You know it's hard, but you

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Speaker 1: know your body can do it. There's some study out

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Speaker 1: there that shows that we're capable of pushing ourselves forty

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Speaker 1: percent more than we think. And I just tell myself that,

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Speaker 1: you know you've gone ten miles and you feel you're

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Speaker 1: at your limit, you can go four more at least.

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Speaker 1: And I coach myself as if I'm my own coach,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it gets me through. It gets me through.

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Speaker 2: MVP, MVP, And you know, I think the hardest thing

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Speaker 2: about sometimes being a psychologist and just being a human

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Speaker 2: being is we're all capable of giving other people advice

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Speaker 2: and helping coach other people. But sometimes the hardest job

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Speaker 2: is when we have to coach ourselves. Right, But you've

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Speaker 2: been capable of coaching yourself. And if you don't mind

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Speaker 2: me saying, you know, you've only been running since you

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Speaker 2: were fifty years old.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, yeah, I mean I jogged a lot to

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Speaker 1: stay in shape up to that point. I mean I

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Speaker 1: did run when the kids were little. I had a

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Speaker 1: single jogging stroller, double jogging stroller, and then, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not, before jogging strollers were even popular, my husband

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Speaker 1: and I managed to find a triple jogging stroller. So

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Speaker 1: we would be running on the side of the road

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Speaker 1: with our triple jogging stroller at a time when no

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Speaker 1: one even thought about using strollers for jogging, and people

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Speaker 1: we would stop traffic couldn't believe that we had three

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Speaker 1: little ones strapped in running along. So yeah, I ran

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Speaker 1: just to stay in shape. But I never thought that

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Speaker 1: I could run distance. I mean, I remember thinking, marathon,

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Speaker 1: that's unbelievable. And my husband started running them, and a

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Speaker 1: couple times I would meet him with maybe eleven fifteen

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Speaker 1: miles left for him to go, and I know it's

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Speaker 1: not good, but I would get on there and just

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Speaker 1: kind of run bandit with him. And I know that's

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Speaker 1: you know, we're not supposed to do that.

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Speaker 3: But what do you mean by run band it?

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Speaker 1: Well, I wasn't registered, I didn't have a BIB. I

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Speaker 1: just would kind of get on the course and run

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Speaker 1: with him. And these were local, informal marathons, and I

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Speaker 1: would notice running the last ten miles. I did that

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Speaker 1: with my daughter. Also that there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: people walking, and I thought, oh, I didn't know you

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Speaker 1: were allowed to walk, So why can't I do that.

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Speaker 1: I'll try running a marathon and if I get tired, heck,

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Speaker 1: I'll just walk. And so we signed up for a

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Speaker 1: I think it was the All American Marathon near Fort

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Speaker 1: Bragg in North Carolina, and my god, I remember passing

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Speaker 1: the ten mile mark and thinking, wow, I feel really good.

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Speaker 1: I was fifty five years old at the time and

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Speaker 1: looking around, I don't know where my husband went, and

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Speaker 1: so I just kept going, and I think at mile

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Speaker 1: sixteen I hit a wall, and I don't know what

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Speaker 1: a wall was at that time. I just felt like, I, okay,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to walk, walk now. But what I

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Speaker 1: did instead was I remember calling up my daughter and

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Speaker 1: she had her whole family around her, and I said

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Speaker 1: to her, Sandra, I feel like I'm going to die.

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Speaker 1: What do I do? And she said, Mom, just keep going,

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Speaker 1: and she said, we'll call you every like, you know,

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Speaker 1: five ten minutes, just to give you a boost, and

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Speaker 1: she did. She called me. The whole family was cheering

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Speaker 1: for me on the phone, and I remember just drinking

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Speaker 1: in that energy from them and thinking of my grandson

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Speaker 1: at the time and granddaughter and just seeing their little

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Speaker 1: faces smiling, hearing them cheer for me, and it kept

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Speaker 1: me going. And I'll tell you too, At that particular marathon,

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Speaker 1: there was a mile where they had flags of fallen soldiers,

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Speaker 1: and I remember running through that mile just so overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: by emotion. I was crying. I don't think I've ever

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Speaker 1: cried while running, but I just remember the tears and

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Speaker 1: so impacted by the thought of, you know, the lives

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Speaker 1: that they gave for their country. And it pushed me

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Speaker 1: that you know, we can still run and we can

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Speaker 1: still move forward, and that they would want us to

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Speaker 1: run and to keep going and to impact the world

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Speaker 1: in some positive way. So that that really empowered me too.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I was thinking a member of our

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Speaker 1: family was very sick at that time. M that helped.

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Speaker 1: I thought of him.

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Speaker 3: And the member of your family that was sick was

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Speaker 3: your son, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sorry. That kept me going. He kept going.

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Speaker 1: He was sick, but he kept going, and he was

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Speaker 1: an inspiration for all of us. He ran triathlons and

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Speaker 1: races and open water swims and he was his skin

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Speaker 1: was gray. He was so sick, but he kept going

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Speaker 1: and that just inspired me. And so all these thoughts

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Speaker 1: I think go through the marathon runner's head. You know,

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Speaker 1: we can run because we can. We can run because

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Speaker 1: we can, And so when you hit that wall, that's

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Speaker 1: what you think about. And suddenly the finish line is

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Speaker 1: there within sight, and there's nothing like crossing over it

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Speaker 1: and then knowing too, even though it's the finish line,

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Speaker 1: there'll be another start soon. There's all always another run,

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Speaker 1: no matter what race that you decide to join. And

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you even at the New York City Marathon

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Speaker 1: when I fell, you know, I realized that we all

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Speaker 1: get tripped up on the way to a finish line.

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Speaker 1: And so then we've got three choices. We can either

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Speaker 1: push through, crawl, you know, scramble, do whatever we can

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Speaker 1: to still get to that finish line. If it's against

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Speaker 1: medical advice, we might need to listen. We could also

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Speaker 1: postpone the finish We always have that option. There's always

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Speaker 1: another race, you know, just put it off and take

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Speaker 1: the time that we need to heal. And then two,

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Speaker 1: we can reroute. We can change the story. We don't

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Speaker 1: have to cross that finish line. There's other finish lines.

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Speaker 1: We can change the story. And I think that's what

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Speaker 1: I did. I met so many wonderful people getting hurt.

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Speaker 1: I have a different story. Haven't quite crossed the New

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Speaker 1: York City Marathon finish line, but I've crossed others.

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Speaker 2: Well, you have crossed the New York City Marathon finish

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Speaker 2: line well a couple times before.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, there's always next year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's always next year.

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Speaker 2: And I think the beautiful thing about running is even

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Speaker 2: if you know whether you're doing a race or going

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Speaker 2: out for a three mile run on your own. It's

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Speaker 2: never guaranteed that it's going to be a good run,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's what keeps people going also, Right,

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Speaker 2: it's the ability to say, Okay, this challenged me, and

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Speaker 2: now I want to come back and do it again

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Speaker 2: and do it and be stronger this time.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: And that goes for running or just working out in general.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's always those times where the workout and the

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Speaker 2: practice of doing it is going to challenge you, and

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Speaker 2: that's where the mental toughness comes in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Kate, it is a little different

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Speaker 1: when you're older. I'll be honest.

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Speaker 3: You know you did say that too. I have to

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Speaker 3: shout this out.

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Speaker 2: So Dana and I we did a video for where

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Speaker 2: we were picking you out a raised day out there.

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Speaker 3: You're actually wearing one of the shirts.

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Speaker 1: That I bought you. I am this was the shirt

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Speaker 1: I fell in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this was the shirt that you fall in. And

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Speaker 3: for our listeners, she's wearing a light blue Viry long

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Speaker 3: sleeve top. It's go Carolina.

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Speaker 2: I know you got it because you wanted to be

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Speaker 2: wrapping your Carolina blue, which is where you live in

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Speaker 2: North Carolina and where Jeremy, my husband went to you

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Speaker 2: and see your son. But when we were filming, you

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Speaker 2: said something along along the lines of you don't know

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Speaker 2: if a bone's going to break or a hamstring is

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Speaker 2: going to give out, because at sixty five years old,

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Speaker 2: just anything can happen.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and I got to tell you there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of runners out there that are much

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Speaker 1: older than sixty five. There's nothing more inspiring to than

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Speaker 1: should be running a marathon and seeing someone who's like

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Speaker 1: eighty two years old just pushing along and once step

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Speaker 1: after another. I think that, you know, we can stay

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Speaker 1: in as good as shape as possible kit as we

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Speaker 1: get older. Yet you know, there's also reality that we're

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Speaker 1: not young spring chickens anymore. I mean, we don't have

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Speaker 1: the same BODI as we did when we were twenty

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Speaker 1: four years old. So it's hard, you know, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to honor what our bodies are telling us sometimes. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know I have run through injuries trying

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Speaker 1: to ignore what my body's saying. And yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: you said that we don't necessarily practice what we preach

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Speaker 1: or walk the talk or I know, right after my

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Speaker 1: surgery the next day, I was back to work, you know,

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Speaker 1: with all the pain and everything right, and you know,

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Speaker 1: some of the team was teasing me, like doctor Liebo.

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Speaker 1: You know here you're telling everybody else to take the

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Speaker 1: time to rest and recover, but you're back here without

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Speaker 1: giving yourself that time. And so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes as we get older, we think there's not as

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Speaker 1: much time ahead as we've had behind, and so maybe

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Speaker 1: there's renewed urgency or something. And it doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be running. It could be anything to still keep some passion,

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Speaker 1: still keep something going in our lives that we love

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Speaker 1: that gives us meaning and purpose. I mean, running is

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Speaker 1: just one piece of life. There's so many others as well.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as you get older, you get better

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Speaker 1: better in so many ways. I mean, I know we

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Speaker 1: were talking earlier about how some people actually run better,

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Speaker 1: improve their times as they get older, and I know

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Speaker 1: I certainly have. I don't have much comparison from when

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Speaker 1: I was younger. I just jogged, but you know I

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Speaker 1: found myself for some years getting better and better each year.

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Speaker 1: And there's that, I guess, exhilaration that we don't have

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Speaker 1: to let age defiaus or deny us. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: so many athletes out there Olympians who have shown us

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Speaker 1: that hey, I'm thirty six years old and I can

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Speaker 1: still win the fifty yard dash or something, or you know,

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Speaker 1: sprint in the water. And I mean that are just

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Speaker 1: modeling to the world that we don't have to give up.

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Speaker 1: There's so many there's so much more we could do

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Speaker 1: as we get older and wiser.

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Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago on the podcast, we interviewed

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Speaker 2: Nicholas Thompson, who's the CEO of the Atlantic and he's

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Speaker 2: also in the age group over forty five, but he

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Speaker 2: holds the world record for the fastest fifty k for

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Speaker 2: men over forty five, which is about thirty miles, and

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Speaker 2: he was saying that in his thirties, he was consistently

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Speaker 2: running a specific marathon time, was a fast marathon time,

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Speaker 2: like he was in the sub three hour category, right,

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Speaker 2: so he's running a fast marathon, but he got stuck

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Speaker 2: at this one time and he couldn't break out of it.

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Speaker 2: And then finally he describes it as a psychological breakthrough,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, in his forties he was

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Speaker 2: able to significantly drop his time by about ten minutes,

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Speaker 2: where he's now running a two hour.

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Speaker 3: And twenty eight minute marathon. Wow, what do.

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Speaker 2: You think happened to cause a psychological breakthrough that allows

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Speaker 2: him to go faster?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you ask that question. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's just for runners. I think it's

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Speaker 1: for an athlete in any sport. I honestly believe it

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Speaker 1: has something to do with being fully in the present moment.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're just being grounded in what you see

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Speaker 1: and hear and feel and smell as you're moving, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you're just so at one with kind of that

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Speaker 1: in the zone force, nothing hampers you. Your mind doesn't

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Speaker 1: get in the way. You're just free. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a freeing process. And there's a love, there's a passion.

434
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: You're feeling it in the moment. You know. It's you know,

435
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: so we let our minds get in our way so often.

436
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: But I imagine he was just fully at one with

437
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: just running in the zone, you know, just fully absorbed

438
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: in it and nothing, you know that, no, nothing in

439
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: his head was in the way or worries, concerns. He

440
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: just let all that go and broke through that barrier.

441
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

442
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 3: And the way he described it too, was that he had.

443
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: Cancer in his early thirties, and he before having cancer

444
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: he was running a fast marathon time, and then when

445
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: he got back into running post having cancer, he was

446
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: just obsessed with being able to be as fast as

447
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: he was pre cancer. And then all of a sudden,

448
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: the psychological breakthrough came. As soon as he realized, why

449
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 2: am I being so hell bent on running the same

450
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: path at the same time that.

451
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: I did pre cancer?

452
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: And as soon as he left that behind him and

453
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: kind of focused on what you're saying, which is the

454
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,959
Speaker 2: present moment, he was able to break through and not

455
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: holds himself to that one time.

456
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because he we evolved. He evolved, He evolved

457
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: to a different person, you know, and let go. It

458
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: sounds like he finally let go, And in so many

459
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: ways that's freeing when you can just let go and

460
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: be in the moment and just therilled that we're alive

461
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: right now. Right.

462
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 2: So, you're a psychologist that's been practicing for over thirty years,

463
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 2: and during that pre marathon viewery run that we did

464
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 2: getting you your outfit, you also said something interesting that

465
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: was people hit the wall in marathons, And of course

466
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: when we're talking running, it makes a lot of sense

467
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: to use hit the wall as an example, but people

468
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: hit the wall in life as well well. And you

469
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: also described yourself as a performance coach, so can you

470
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: talk to us about that?

471
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: Well, I think, Kate, we all have things in our

472
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: lives that we want to improve in, and performance psychology

473
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: is about getting to the next level of whatever it

474
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: is you want to improve in your life. It could

475
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: be a skill, it could be a behavior, it could

476
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: be a mindset, even a mood. And so you know

477
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: what happens between where we are with whatever that skill

478
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: is we want to get better at, or behavior or

479
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: mood or mindset, whatever it is, and between where we

480
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: want to get And I'm sorry my arm is still

481
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: a little shaking a little from the whole time. This

482
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: is my arm that I okay.

483
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 3: For our listeners.

484
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: Dana's currently using her broken arm, so that most people

485
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: are just listening, So you can just relax that arm and.

486
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: I I need to gesture. So we're here with whatever

487
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: we want to improve at. We want to get there.

488
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: So the question is, you know, not where we are

489
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: where we want to be. It's more about that gap

490
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: in between. If we can tackle one thing in that

491
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: gap that can help us get from here to there.

492
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: That's how we get through that wall. And so when

493
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: I say tackle one thing, it could be something about

494
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: ourselves that gets in the way, you know, like hey,

495
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: I'm too impatient, or I procrastinate, or I'm not focused,

496
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: or I mean you name it fill in the blank, X,

497
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: Y or Z. It could be something we want to

498
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: build on, like I'm working on stamina and I need

499
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: to get forty percent better. Or it could be something even

500
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: about the situation where in that we want to change.

501
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: But there's usually something in the way between here and

502
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: there that we need to tackle, and it's something specific

503
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: and we know what it is. You know, if we

504
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: are uncertain what it is, we could ask the people

505
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: who know us, love us around us every day. They'll

506
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: tell us what it is. But there's usually one thing

507
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: or other things too, but one thing that if we

508
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: tackle that, it's going to help everything else. And so

509
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: I think as a performance psychologist, certainly makes my work

510
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: easier to focus on that one thing, whether it's for

511
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: an athlete or someone in the workplace, or you know,

512
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: someone who's started a foundation and hitting a wall and

513
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: fundraising whatever it is, you know, if you could tackle

514
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: that one thing and get it to the next level.

515
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: It can help everything else. And so that's I think,

516
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, we've all heard the expression less is more,

517
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: and so just one thing. What's that one thing between

518
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: here and there that's either holding you back or you

519
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: can build on that will make all the difference. And

520
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: I think that's performance psychology can help with. You know,

521
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: there is such a vast amount of research out there

522
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: that shows us what the cutting edge techniques are, what

523
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: the best practices are, what the most effective approaches are

524
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: to help anything we want to get better at. You know,

525
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: now we've got AI. I mean, we could ask chat GBT,

526
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: but there's always some approaches, methods, treatments out there that

527
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: are just best in class. And if we can find

528
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: those and customize them apply them to whatever the person's

529
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: trying to improve, there's going to be some results.

530
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: What have you found to be the most effective treatments?

531
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it depends on what we're trying to tackle,

532
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: you know, if I'll be honest, you know, if someone's

533
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: been through some intensive trauma something like that earlier in

534
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: life or recently. I mean I know a lot of

535
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: athletes who might have fallen also or have some injury

536
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: and it's hard to get the confidence back. So there

537
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: are wonderful experiential approaches. And I believe in experiential therapy.

538
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: I mean, we could talk all we want about getting

539
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: better at something, but I believe you need to set

540
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: the stage to actually experience it again, to reframe it,

541
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: or to reconstruct the experience in a way that you

542
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: know it's new and different and you can face it differently.

543
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: So let's say, you know, with my I'll give the

544
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: example of my arm. I knew that I needed to

545
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: get back on the road again, running again, and so

546
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: I found the first safe way I could do that.

547
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: You know, my hand surgeon had a cast made for

548
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: me that went halfway up my arm, and so that

549
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: helped me feel even if I do fall, this thing

550
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: is like turning me into the bionic woman, so I'll

551
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: be okay. And also I love self hypnosis. I know

552
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: sometimes people get freaked out at the thought of hypnosis

553
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: because they've been to you know, a show or something

554
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: where someone's up there on stage making people, you know,

555
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: flap their arms like chickens or something. But hypnosis is

556
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: extremely powerful tool that we have inside of us. It's

557
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: I mean, many times a day we go into that

558
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: in the zone absorbed state, whether we're reading a good

559
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: book or driving a car, or if we are watching

560
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: a movie that has us on the edge of our seat,

561
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: we can create that in the zone experience ourselves. And

562
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: if there's an experience that has thrown us off course,

563
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: we can go into ourselves and revision it in a

564
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: way that is more fruitful productive. Here's how I would

565
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: have liked the outcome to have been different. And I

566
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: always have a chance in life to make that happen.

567
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: I could reroute the finish line that kind of thing.

568
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: So even in the hospital, Kate, and I know you

569
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: were You and Jeremy were so sweet to come and

570
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: see me in the er. They had to do what

571
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: was called a reduction on my arm and kind of

572
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, change, pull.

573
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: It out and.

574
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: Align and realign the bones. And I knew it was

575
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: gonna hurt, and so I said, my God, Danna, if

576
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: you have ever learned to do hypnosis with others, do

577
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: it on yourself right now. And I imagined a beach

578
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: in Hawaii and the palm trees swaying in the breeze,

579
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: and the waves lapping on the shore, and the warm

580
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: sun on my skin, and that's where I was when

581
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: they did the reduction, and it was before they got

582
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: the morphiine in me. So it was self hypnosis. And

583
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: so you can apply hypnosis to so many things to

584
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: help people get in a state of full absorption and

585
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: to revision how they want to whether it's a problem,

586
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 1: a challenge, or a new opportunity they're facing. They can

587
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: see that for themselves in a hypnotic trance. I also

588
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: like EMDR, which is another approach eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing.

589
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: I like to integrate that with hypnosis. I mean, we

590
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: could go on forever about these mind body experiential approaches

591
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: to treatment that help a person be in the experience

592
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: so they can change it. Even if we're sitting on

593
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: the couch right now, we could float back to any

594
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: experience and revision it in a way that's more fruitful

595
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: and productive that we could keep going with it, even

596
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: change the course of history. You know, if I, for example,

597
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: had a trauma that I based in the past, I

598
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: can reconstruct it in a way that helps me move forward,

599
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: and experiential therapies like hypnosis or MDR and others help

600
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: me do that.

601
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: And there's not that many psychologists that use hypnosis in

602
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: their practices, right.

603
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: Well, I like to think that we can get that

604
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: number growing, and I'm going to do my best to

605
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: try to bring in more psychologists or therapists, you know,

606
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: clinical social workers, counselors who can learn hypnosis because it

607
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: is so powerful.

608
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 3: When did you discover hypnosis?

609
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: I realized that we go into kind of a trance

610
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: like state so many times a day without even thinking

611
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: about it, when we're fully absorbed in what we're doing.

612
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: And you know, whether again like I was saying before,

613
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: whether we're reading.

614
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: A book or needle pointing or needle.

615
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: Pointing exactly, you're in the zone. And I remember thinking,

616
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, gosh, this is such a focused state of

617
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: attention where we're fully absorbed, you know, imagine we can

618
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: train ourselves to do this, and you know, in moments

619
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: where we want to solve a problem or shift our

620
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: mindset or mood. And and so I happened to live

621
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: in New Jersey at the time, and they had a

622
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: very active New Jersey Society of Clinical Hypnosis, and I

623
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: went to a meeting to see what it was about,

624
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: and they hooked me. They were teaching Ericsonian style hypnosis,

625
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: and I as soon as I could, got trained in

626
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: it and then became certified. I went through the training

627
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: and education with the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis to

628
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: become a clinical hypnotherapist, and then I became a consultant

629
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: as well. And I'm actually the president elect for the

630
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: American Society of Clinical Hypnosis right now. I just found

631
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: out a couple of weeks ago that I was elected

632
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: to be that. So I feel like, you know, I

633
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: hope that with the team working with me, we can

634
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: use or train more people who are out there, more

635
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: therapists to learn hypnosis and to use it with their

636
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: clients because it actually, in some cases it's a form

637
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: of brief therapy. I mean, you don't need fifty sessions

638
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: to change your behavior or to improve your performance. One

639
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: or two can even do the trick. And it's a

640
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: wonderful approach that can be integrated with other therapies as well.

641
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: If you're in a hypnotic trance, you can visualize more clearly,

642
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: you can learn more deeply, you could see things in

643
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: your mind's eye better, and it's just it's a way

644
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: to be more in tune with yourself and you can

645
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: integrate that with cognitive behavioral therapy or you know other

646
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: therapies that are out there that even talk therapy. Yeah.

647
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: So, say you're on a run, right, because I feel

648
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: like running also as a time. We have a lot

649
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: of runners that listen to this show and you're work

650
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 2: and you're you know, say you're on a long run

651
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 2: and you're in a bit of a trance state, right,

652
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: because I feel like when you're long distance running, you're

653
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: in a trans Yes.

654
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 3: So, now if you want to.

655
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: Break through something on your own and kind of really

656
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: use that trance state to get in your own thoughts

657
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: and work through an issue that you're having, how do

658
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: you do that?

659
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: Like what's the first step and then second step and third?

660
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: Okay, well I've already answered that question. MVP process it's

661
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: another name for hidden I mean, hypnosis is an integration

662
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: of you know, being in a calm, absorbed state, you know, grounded.

663
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: That's the mindfulness piece.

664
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: So the first step is recognizing it, yes, yes.

665
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: Recognizing Okay, I'm hitting my wall. I need to do

666
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: something here to keep pushing through.

667
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: Or you're not hitting your wall and you're just in

668
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: that trance state, right, Because I kind of want to

669
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: talk about it in the sense of, like, you know,

670
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 2: you're going out for a run and you have something

671
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 2: on your mind that you want to use that run,

672
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: yes to focus on, And that doesn't always mean you're

673
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: hitting a wall, like sometimes it's an enjoyable run.

674
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 3: Like for me, I'm mostly going on enjoyable runs, let's

675
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 3: be real.

676
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So as you run, you just start to

677
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: kind of pay attention to your breathing, the cadence of

678
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: your steps, the almost the rhythm of your pace, and

679
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: you just kind of get into that flow. And they

680
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: say that, you know, once you're running or doing anything

681
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: for fifteen minutes, you can get into that flow state,

682
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: ease into it, and then you're just going and you know,

683
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 1: you might hear your heart beating and you're just fully

684
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: grounded in the moment, one step after the other, and

685
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: then whatever the problem is, I mean, your mind is

686
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: thinking more clearly and believe it or not as we run,

687
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: because we have to pay attention to where we're going.

688
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: They call that cognitive load. I mean you have to

689
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: kind of where's my next step. I don't want to

690
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, fall into a crevice or anything. You're paying

691
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: attention without realizing it to keep going. And because you're

692
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: kind of in the zone, absorbed in the run, you're

693
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: not overthinking things. You're not ruminating, as the term is.

694
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: You know, we all talk about, Oh gosh, I overthink.

695
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: You know, I wake up in the morning and my

696
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: mind is trying to solve all the problems of the world,

697
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: and I just want to go to sleep. When you're running,

698
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, that kind of goes away, and it allows

699
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: you to access as part of yourself below conscious awareness,

700
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: and things just bubble up to the surface. You know,

701
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: ideas that maybe had been suppressed, or thoughts, insights, sensations,

702
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: they just come to mind. And I think that is

703
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: why when you do your running interviews, people are more vulnerable,

704
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: able to open up more, you know, or be comfortable

705
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: with their vulnerability. You're not looking at them eye to

706
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: eye like we are. Now you're side by side, so

707
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: they feel comfortable and let's feace it. I mean, I

708
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: love evolutionary psychology. So much of what we do is

709
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: rooted in, you know, the dawn of human civilization. You know,

710
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: when we were living in keeves with with saber tooth

711
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: tigers oring outside. I mean, the way we bonded with

712
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: each other was by walking together, by running together, by

713
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: traveling together, moving side by side together. So there's hunting exactly,

714
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, So it brings out that that primal bonding

715
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: I think, and you know, I always think of why

716
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: are those running interviews so powerful? I mean, why are

717
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: running groups taking off by storm? Why are they you know,

718
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: even if they're decades old, like I think of the

719
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: New York road Runners. I mean, they have just multiplied

720
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: exponentially in recent years. It's because when we run, we

721
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: can bond with whoever's next to us and talk about

722
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: I mean, surprise ourselves by how much we open up,

723
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: even with strangers. And so there's something about running, the dopamine,

724
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: the serotonin, you know, just the blood flow, even that

725
00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: that loosens us up and we're in flow. And when

726
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: you're in flow, you're not overthinking things, they're just letting go.

727
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 1: And so it's very powerful. I think you're onto something, Kate.

728
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I've been doing the Running Interview

729
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: show for almost three years now, and I have definitely noticed,

730
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: with not only guests but myself that you see these

731
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: psychological breakthroughs that happen when people are moving their bodies

732
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 2: and It's funny, but when I show up sometimes to

733
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: when I wake up, sometimes for a day, right because

734
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: I'm doing some often six interviews at a week, and

735
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: there's days where I wake up and I'm just like,

736
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: I don't really want to go for a run right now.

737
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 3: And not only do I not want to go for

738
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: a run, but I don't want.

739
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 2: To have to do it with somebody else and guide

740
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: the conversation and make sure they're feeling great.

741
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 3: Right, because that is what a lot of what I do. Right.

742
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: I show up for people while running, and I listen

743
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 2: to their story. But what I've found with the act

744
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: of running, for myself and also for my guests, is

745
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 2: by doing it, I actually automatically my energy shifts and

746
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 2: I get into a great state of mind. And even

747
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 2: if I wake up and I'm not feeling it that morning,

748
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: as soon as I start running, in the act of running,

749
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: my mood shifts and my energy shifts.

750
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and I mean yeah, there's the dopamine surge

751
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: and serotonin. I mean, we're calmer, We're just more at

752
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: peace with ourselves, and it feels good to move. We

753
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: are meant to move. We've got two legs, two arms,

754
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 1: We're meant to move, We're not meant to sit all day.

755
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: And I mean, they say, I don't know so much

756
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: about running, but walking alone is at one study that

757
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: said if you go for a walk and we're trying

758
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: to you know, process or sort through some problem you're facing,

759
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: it can be just as effective as cognitive behavioral therapy

760
00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: or art therapy or just taking a walk. Imagine running, Yeah,

761
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: you know where, you're speeding things up a little bit

762
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: and there's nothing more freeing, liberating than than moving.

763
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: One of the most common things that people say to

764
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: me after a run doing one of my running interviews

765
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: is are you sure we got it all? And I

766
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: think it's so funny because as somebody that's interviewing them,

767
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: I know kind of everything that they said during the interview,

768
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking to myself, well, we just ran for

769
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: an hour, like, trust me, we got the full story.

770
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: But I think it's so funny because it is one

771
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: of the most common commonality things that people say to

772
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: me after a run. And I think it's because exactly

773
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: what you're saying. It's people almost forget what they say

774
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: during a run, and of course I know as the

775
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: interviewer we got the full story. Well, what is that phenomenon?

776
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 2: Why do people forget what they say?

777
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: It's precisely what we've been talking about, Kate. We're in

778
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: the zone. And when you're in the zone, and I

779
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: like to bring it back to hypnosis, that is an

780
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: example of a trance like state. We are speaking from

781
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: that level of awareness below consciousness. It's just bubbling up

782
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: from deep within. We forget what we say. We're not

783
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, calculating what we say. It just flows. The

784
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: words are flowing out, just like we're flowing in the

785
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: zone as we run. And and so I imagine that

786
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, just like me, the people that you interview,

787
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: I'm going to forget what I'm saying. I don't know

788
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: what I've said. I'll be probably surprised when I watch

789
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: later and they're feeling that too, that what did I

790
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: I mean? It just flows out, And you know that

791
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: you are locked into a conversation, that you are in

792
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: the zone. When you're not calculating the words, You're not

793
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: you know what do I say next? It just comes

794
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: and and you can tell just by you know, the look,

795
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: the ease with which you're conversing, and and how new

796
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: topics come up. You know, you're pulling from the thread

797
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: of the previous one. It just flows. We can be

798
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: in the zone in a conversation, just as we can

799
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: be in the zone, you know, if we're a tennis

800
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: player serving the ball. That's why hypnosis is so powerful,

801
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: because we can access that state anytime we want and

802
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: use it in those moments that would be helpful, Like

803
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: if I have an anger management problem, if I learn

804
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: self hypnosis, the next time I feel like flying off

805
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: the handle, or I can't beat that impulse to lose

806
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: control and shout at my little kids and scare them

807
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, I think parents always have those

808
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: moments at times, and great if they don't, you know,

809
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: learning self hypnosis or you know, these experiential or experiential

810
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: approaches to therapy can help someone in that moment to

811
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: respond differently to anger or impatience or whatever it is.

812
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: So so I don't know if that answer did I

813
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: answer that question?

814
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 2: You know?

815
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 3: And I it does answer my question.

816
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: And I also want to say, you know, when I

817
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: hear the term term hypnosis, and when a lot of

818
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 2: people hear the term hypnosis, they think woo woo.

819
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 3: Like what is that?

820
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: You know?

821
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 3: Crazy town. So what do people get wrong about hypnosis?

822
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 1: Hypnosis is a natural state that we we go in

823
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: multiple times a day, and it is not something you

824
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: know from left field. Maybe we should change the name.

825
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: That's why I like MVP. You know, the MVP process.

826
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's really what it is. It's a combination

827
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: of mindfulness visualization. And when I say the visualization doesn't

828
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: have to be just seeing things, it could be you

829
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: know the smell of your mom's brownies when you were

830
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: twelve years old, how that always made you feel like, Oh,

831
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be any kind of sensation. And

832
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: also positive self talk coaching, setting expectations for yourself, you know,

833
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 1: to respond differently in a new pattern that is more

834
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: productive and effective. And you know that that makes sense

835
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: or can be adapted to you know, where you are

836
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: today in a more productive way.

837
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: So, now, what are we seeing when we're on a

838
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 2: cruise ship and there's a hypnotist.

839
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 3: On stage right or whatever wherever we are When.

840
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 2: We see a hypnist still on stage, maybe in middle

841
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: school or you know, when they bring in bring in

842
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: somebody like that, what are we seeing when people become

843
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: a car on stage? Do you believe that could you currently,

844
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 2: could you right now hypnotize me to make me become

845
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: a car? And you know, look like I'm driving the

846
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: wheel and saying room, room, like, what are we seeing?

847
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: If we had time, I maybe I could, but I won't.

848
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: I think it depends. There are some stage hypnotists who

849
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: really know what they're doing. But then hypnosis is used

850
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: for entertainment. You know, you're just unlocking something within a

851
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: person that helps free their inhibitions. And but keep in

852
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: mind that person is always in control. Hypnosis does not

853
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: take control away from people. And I think that's the

854
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: biggest fallacy about it, that if I am hypnotized, I'm

855
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 1: going to lose control. That is not correct. You are

856
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: always in control, and so my hunches. There might be

857
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: a lot of stage hypnotists who have actors or actresses

858
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: plant in the audience. I mean we see movies about

859
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: that all the time. You know that like their daughters

860
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: out there and raises her hand to volunteer, and those

861
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, has a whole act planned once she gets

862
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: up on that stage. But you know, hypnosis does not

863
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: rob people of control. It's just a natural a state

864
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: that we can all go into to access, you know,

865
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: our deeper, higher inner selves. As woo wo as that sounds,

866
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that though, you know, one of the

867
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: goals in life to understand ourselves more clearly.

868
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I've interviewed a handful of professional athletes.

869
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: I've interviewed Gabby Thomas and Ny McLaughlin, Grant.

870
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 2: Halloway, those are all tracks, you know, gold medalist Olympians

871
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 2: that are are runners. And one of the things that

872
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 2: they all talk about is visualization. And I know you've

873
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: talked about visualization as it comes to hypnosis and you know,

874
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: getting into trans like state when you're running. So explain

875
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: to us what visualization is in terms of performance for

876
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 2: people at that level. And then also, I know you

877
00:51:54,920 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: work with retired athletes and CEOs executives, right, and I'm

878
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: sure there's things that they get wrong about visualization that

879
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: you have to recoach. So talk to us about visualization

880
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 2: and what people get wrong about it.

881
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the first thing that comes to mind

882
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: is what people get can get right about visualization. You know,

883
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 1: I find that I could work with a golfer and

884
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: even though I myself am not a golfer. Okay, what's

885
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: that movie with the happy place. Yeah, happy Gilmore or

886
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: what is it an Adam Sandler the Happy Guildmore in

887
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: part two just came out and you know, so everybody's like, oh, well,

888
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 1: I'm going to use hypnosis to go to my happy place.

889
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: And that's awesome. You know, if we could all, whether

890
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: we're a CEO of a big company or just running

891
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: a mile, you know, if we are going through a

892
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: tough period, if we can shift to what our happy places,

893
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: certainly gonna help shift our mood. I mean, if you

894
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: can visualize, you know, a place that's comfortable, safe, peaceful, secure,

895
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,720
Speaker 1: that's gonna impact your mood. And mood impacts behavior. Behavior

896
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: impacts mood and impacts what we think. It's all related.

897
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 1: You know, you can you can shift in the moment

898
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: to be more effective, more productive. So that's something you

899
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: know that hypnosis can do for whether you're an executive

900
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: or an athlete, you can change shift how you are

901
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: in the moment, you know, to be more productive.

902
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to help yourself get through hard things, right,

903
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 2: Because when I talked to Gabby Thomas, She's like, when

904
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 2: I was compete, I forget her race. But when she was,

905
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: you know, running in the Olympics and got her gold medal.

906
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 2: The only thing she was thinking about was crossing that

907
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 2: finish line.

908
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: Right, which, so that's another point that I want to

909
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: make Kate. One of the most power powerful things we

910
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: could do with visualization is to imagine the impact of

911
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: what we're trying to accomplish. So if I'm a tennis player,

912
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's not going to help me much to

913
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: This is where visualization can get can be wrong. Like

914
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: if I'm thinking, okay, I want to visualize my muscles

915
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: relaxing inside me, or I want to visualize that you know,

916
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: I'm standing in that perfect ninety degree angle or whatever

917
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: with my feet in the that kind of visualization is

918
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: not going to help as much as especially for elite athletes,

919
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: as much as imagining the outcome or the impact of

920
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: what we're doing. So if I'm a tennis player and

921
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: I'm serving, I want to see where that ball is

922
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: going to land. I want to visualize the trajectory of

923
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 1: the ball through space, you know, I want to imagine

924
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: the sound of that ball hitting that tennis racket in

925
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: just the right place. That kind of visualization is going

926
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: to free up my body to do what it knows

927
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: how to do.

928
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: And I like that you said to do what it

929
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: knows how to do, because another commonality that I found

930
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: with every single professional athlete that I have done an

931
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 2: interview with, a running interview show video with is that

932
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 2: they don't get nervous for the race because they know

933
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 2: that that's the cherry on top, Right's They've put in.

934
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 3: The work and now they're ready to compete.

935
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's it. That that's the mean theme.

936
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: I think, free up your body to do what it

937
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: knows how to do, and the way to do that

938
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,720
Speaker 1: is to visualize the outcome. That's why imagining that finish

939
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: line freeze up the runner, to allow the body to

940
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 1: just go at a pace even faster than you thought

941
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: you could handle. That's why a golfer, I mean even

942
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: yesterday we have that little miniature golf thing outside. I

943
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: don't know how to golf, but if I stand there

944
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: and I visualize the alignment of that of you know,

945
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: where I'm hitting the ball, seeing that ball go in

946
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: the hole. Sometimes I get a hole in one and

947
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm just visualizing

948
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: the ball going into the hole and being aligned with

949
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: that trajectory that kind of visualization seeing the outcome of

950
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: what you're doing is so powerful, and you could apply

951
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: it to even you know, I know you keep saying,

952
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: what about CEOs, what do they have in common with

953
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: athletes or anybody in the workplace. If you're standing up

954
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: there trying to present your ideas to the board or

955
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: you know, to the people sitting at the table at

956
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: a meeting, if you can think of a visualize the

957
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: impact you want to have, you know, with what you're saying,

958
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: the value of what you're saying, If you want to

959
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: see smiles on their faces, or you want to see

960
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: them lean in and you know, open their eyes wide,

961
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,439
Speaker 1: or curious to hear what you have to offer. If

962
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: you're visualizing that impact, those words are going to flow

963
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: out and you're going to find that you're smiling, you're

964
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: leaning in, you're curious about what's going to come out

965
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: of your mouth too, and you're all mirroring each other.

966
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: So that visualizing the impact is I think the most

967
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: powerful lesson whether you're an athlete or a leader in

968
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: the workplace, or a school teacher, whatever, visualizing the results

969
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: of what you're doing. Seeing that it helps you even

970
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 1: in the moment to get there right.

971
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 3: So this podcast is called post frind high.

972
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 2: It's all about the phenomena of what happens after we

973
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 2: work out right and after we move our bodies. And

974
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 2: most people think that post frind high is just the

975
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: endorphins that our body is feeling and experiencing. But is

976
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: that actually true or is something else happening.

977
00:57:54,800 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: I think there's dopamine surges, there's endorphins, there's all so.

978
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:04,439
Speaker 1: I mean the calmness, the piece of we just ran,

979
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: we just finished something meaningful, we just moved. I think we.

980
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 3: Did something hard.

981
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: We did something hard, And I think that's another reason

982
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: why you know, the running interviews before works so well,

983
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: because you're both facing kind of adversity together. You're pushing yourselves.

984
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: There's there's that kind of bond too. So we just

985
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: did it, you know, It's like we just crawled across

986
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: the finish line together. Now we're sitting down on enjoying,

987
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: reaping the joy of finishing something connected together. I think

988
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: that's supposed to run high too.

989
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 2: There are a lot of drugs that can emulate that

990
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: post run high, that dopamine and that endorphin rush feeling.

991
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on those types of medications.

992
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a that's a big question. I have some

993
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: mentors for the years, psychologists who are master clinicians, and

994
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: they've impacted me pretty strongly. Uh. You know, one in

995
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: particular has a mantraus skills not pills, So no, Adall, Well,

996
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: hold on, I mean, Kate, I really believe that, you know,

997
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: medication has saved lives, no doubt. If I were severely

998
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: depressed and had a hard time getting out of bed

999
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: each day, you know, and and my psychiatrist is able

1000
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: to prescribe something that will prevent suicidal thoughts or you know,

1001
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: help me feel hope again. Okay, Uh, those are kind

1002
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: of severe, you know, more extreme situations. I think in

1003
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: normal life that the first thing to do is to develop,

1004
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: to develop the skills to manage shifting our moods, or

1005
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: to manage overthinking, or to manage you know, anger or

1006
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I mean, we're human beings, and we

1007
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 1: always have that capacity to build the skills first. Pills

1008
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: as a last resort. So I believe if honestly we

1009
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: go into a doctor's office and say, oh, I'm feeling

1010
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: low or down or anxious, and that doctor pulls out

1011
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: a prescription pad before asking, hey, do you exercise? Do

1012
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: you you know, move around? You know, what do you

1013
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 1: do in life that gives you meaning and purpose? And

1014
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: you know if that doctor is prescribing pills Before asking

1015
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: those essential questions. There's so much research out there to

1016
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: show that, you know, running or other exercise alone is

1017
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: just as effective, if not more so, than any anti

1018
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: anxiety or anti in any anti anxiety medication or anti

1019
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: depressed on the marketplace. So it's so important to try

1020
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: to build the skills first and to get the help

1021
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: to do that, because that's what performance psychology is all about.

1022
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: There are best practices, there are cutting edge techniques. There,

1023
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: there's so much research to show how to build every

1024
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: skill under the sun, and to try that first, unless,

1025
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: of course, you know you're in a severe extreme distress,

1026
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: then okay, then medication can save lives.

1027
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 3: So self medicate first and then think about, well, what

1028
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 3: comes by building the skills to do that?

1029
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and we can all learn. That's why I love

1030
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: hypnosis so much. We can learn self hypnosis. We can

1031
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: learn how to manage a reduction in an er in

1032
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: wherever I was, I don't know, somewhere in New York

1033
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: City mile twelve. You know, out the morphine.

1034
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 2: You know, say a twelve year old or thirteen year

1035
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 2: old goes to a psychiatrist and they're struggling, struggling with

1036
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 2: depression or ADHD. What are you saying to their parents

1037
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 2: that they should do first? Right, And let's start with

1038
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 2: depression because that's one of the most common things that

1039
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 2: adolescents struggle with.

1040
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 1: You know, I think every every kid's different. And uh,

1041
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, if I talk to the parents, I would

1042
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: first ask them, what have you tried so far? You know,

1043
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: I try to understand, you know, tell me what you've

1044
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 1: done so far to help with this challenge you're facing.

1045
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: What is your kid done? And I would explore you know, uh,

1046
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: what is that kid doing to move in their life?

1047
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: You know, I again, We're meant to move, We're meant

1048
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: to walk, We're meant to run, We're meant to get

1049
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: outside un with nature. Nature is one of the things

1050
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: that uplifts our spirits. What's the What about the kids'

1051
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: social connections? Does he have friends? What are the things

1052
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: that child is doing to channel their energy? Do they

1053
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 1: have some hobby or passion or something they enjoy that

1054
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: gets them moving? That gets them connected to other people,

1055
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: that helps them feel meaning and purpose in life. I

1056
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: would want to explore that first, you know, and that's huge.

1057
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 1: That is huge that a child even can play, can

1058
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: connect with friends, can move around, can explore, can be curious,

1059
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: can discover the world. That's what childhood is all about,

1060
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: to learn and grow. I would want to make sure

1061
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: that the child has those outlets.

1062
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 2: And it's interesting that it all comes back to move, right,

1063
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 2: whether it's physical, mental, or social, just the act of moving.

1064
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't remember what country it is, like maybe Denmark.

1065
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: They would not allow kids to have standardized tests until

1066
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: they were thirteen years old and instead, you know, spend

1067
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: so much of school time out in the playground. You know,

1068
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: we learn by exploring, by doing, by moving, by being

1069
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: connected to whether it's nature or you know, something that

1070
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: we could play with and explore. And that's that's how

1071
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,439
Speaker 1: we learn and grow. And if that's taken away from

1072
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: us or we're locked into you know, cell phones and

1073
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: computers and and believe me, I know they have their

1074
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: purpose too. I mean, we can do so many things

1075
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: with the power of you know, digital technology, certainly, and however,

1076
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: if we use it too much, Yeah, it's affecting our brains,

1077
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: it's changing our personalities and and and it's it's preventing

1078
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 1: all the ways. You know, I mentioned evolutionary psychology before.

1079
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: Our bodies were meant to move and and and if

1080
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: we don't do that, we're going to be depressed. I

1081
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: know that if if if I go a couple of

1082
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: days without moving, and I've had knee surgery too, and

1083
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: you know sometimes you feel it. You feel it.

1084
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's also there's something interesting to me about

1085
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 2: social media where it's almost like you are socially connecting, right,

1086
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 2: because you go on your phone and you scroll and

1087
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 2: you see all these people doing all sorts of things, right,

1088
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 2: and social media tends to make them look glamorous, are

1089
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 2: so fun or you know, makes you have that fomo.

1090
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 3: Fear of missing out right.

1091
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 2: As a psychologist, you know that understands the importance of.

1092
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 3: Being social and knowing and seeing what people are up to.

1093
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 2: Right.

1094
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 3: How is that kind.

1095
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 2: Of over communication and over seeing people doing different things

1096
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 2: while we're scrolling on our phones affecting us?

1097
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it affects us in a number of

1098
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: different ways, you know. One, I think seeing what everyone

1099
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: else is doing and you know, feeling that our self

1100
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: worth is determined by how many likes we get, not

1101
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 1: to mention the dopamine surge we get every time we

1102
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: see the number of likes growing. It's addictive. It's addictive,

1103
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: and I mean, I know we have apps in our

1104
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: phone to show us how much screen time we're we're

1105
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: using in a in a typical week. It's kind of

1106
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 1: scary sometimes when you see, you know, just the hours

1107
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: and hours that that people are spending on their phones,

1108
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: and it is addictive.

1109
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think about it a lot for younger kids, right,

1110
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 2: because it's I mean, I've been in middle school, I've

1111
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 2: been in high school. It was hard enough pre social media,

1112
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 2: being in middle school saying oh, so and so are

1113
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 2: friends and they're doing all these things after school and

1114
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 2: I'm not part of it, right, And then it's a

1115
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 2: whole other thing where then you're scrolling on Instagram as

1116
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 2: a thirteen year old and you're seeing all these people

1117
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: again doing things that.

1118
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 3: You're not a part of, you know. So it's like

1119
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 3: it's already happening naturally, right. You see it in school.

1120
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 2: There's that comparison, there's that feeling of being left out

1121
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 2: and that's the thing that's happened for years in generations,

1122
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 2: but then social media amplifies it in such a big way, you.

1123
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 1: Know, And I think it kind of circles back to

1124
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: what we were just saying, Kate, that you know, we

1125
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: we you know, especially if you're young, and you know,

1126
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: without all those years of experience and trial and error

1127
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: and learning from mistakes.

1128
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 3: And understanding that it's okay to be left out right.

1129
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,439
Speaker 1: Exactly comfortable in your own skin, you don't realize that,

1130
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: you know, yet when it's happening for the first few

1131
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: times and you start to, you know, define who you

1132
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: are based on what you're seeing on social media and

1133
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: defining self worth and yeah, I have to be like

1134
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: that in order for people to love me or like me,

1135
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: or to be accepted in this world. And a lot

1136
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: of times, I mean, perfection is not attainable. We are

1137
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 1: human and perfect at best, and yet what we see

1138
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: on social media looks so perfect, and so there's this

1139
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: sort of mirage that you know, kids might be reaching

1140
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: for that is elusive. And yeah, I honestly feel that

1141
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: as hard as it is, because it is addictive. I mean,

1142
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: you can't help it. We check our emails no matter

1143
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: how old we are. You know, once you get connected

1144
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: to a phone, if you leave the house without it,

1145
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: it's like you left your arm behind or something. Everybody's

1146
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 1: had that kind of experience, but it's freeing, and I've

1147
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: heard a lot of families sometimes do this, to put

1148
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: the phone in a box under a bed or something

1149
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 1: for the weekend and just to live life without it,

1150
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, to go outside and run, to hike in

1151
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 1: the woods, to absorb nature, to feel the simple pleasures

1152
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: of living, of being grounded in the moment without succumbing

1153
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: to the urge to see, you know, what the next

1154
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 1: post is, or how many likes, or getting that dopamine

1155
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 1: surge from a little box. We can get that from

1156
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:48,719
Speaker 1: so many other sources.

1157
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 2: As somebody that's been practicing for over thirty years as

1158
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 2: a psychologist, you've seen life pre social media and during

1159
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 2: social media, right, So you've seen cases of people now

1160
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 2: kind of coming in probably because.

1161
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,839
Speaker 3: Of the effects largely of the phone, especially young.

1162
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: Kids, would be yeah, yeah, So what is.

1163
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,640
Speaker 2: The biggest change that you've seen since the rise of

1164
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 2: social media as far as like what people.

1165
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 3: Are coming into you for help with.

1166
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's the same issues you know, anxiety, depression, trauma,

1167
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: you know, some experiences that may still live with them

1168
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: and haunt them in some way that they want to

1169
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: process or sort through so they can move on in life.

1170
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: And I think that in so many ways, social media,

1171
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 1: the phone can numb ourselves. We can numb ourselves to

1172
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: dealing with those issues. I mean, it's not. One of

1173
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 1: my mentors says, it's not depression that happens to us,

1174
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,719
Speaker 1: it's life that happens to us. And if we're spending

1175
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:08,759
Speaker 1: life scrolling, you know, how are we going to build

1176
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: the skills to deal with problems and challenges that occur

1177
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:16,679
Speaker 1: every day? And yeah, life is hard, it is rough,

1178
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:21,719
Speaker 1: and god, you know, Kate, when I think of people

1179
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: living in war torn countries and how lucky we are.

1180
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: You know that we can go outside and chances are

1181
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 1: you know we're gonna be okay. I mean, if we

1182
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: can just get out and enjoy nature, enjoy connecting with friends,

1183
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: enjoy having conversations, enjoy solving problems without the help of

1184
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,640
Speaker 1: you know, a computer, just to feel the satisfaction of

1185
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 1: figuring out things on our own. We have the capacity

1186
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: to do that. Our minds, bodies can work together to

1187
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 1: help us get the results and feel that incredible satisfaction

1188
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: and high from having crossed the finish line on our own.

1189
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: I cannot cross the finish line scrolling on my phone.

1190
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know what's kind of funny, But I

1191
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 2: had somebody say this to me the other day, one

1192
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 2: of our family members. They said that they enjoy going

1193
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 2: camping in the mountains because it reminds them of how

1194
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 2: insignificant they are, right, just because you're this small speck

1195
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 2: of a person in this vast mountain range, right, and

1196
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 2: there's so much nature and life going on around you.

1197
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 2: And while I don't want to be reminded that we're insignificant,

1198
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 2: because of course our lives are significant, I think it

1199
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 2: is so important to be put into that perspective sometimes

1200
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 2: of being like, you know, my problems feel so big, right,

1201
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 2: and then you get into the world and you realize,

1202
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 2: I'm my problems aren't that big, right?

1203
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: Nature bigger than us, and there's something you know, no

1204
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,719
Speaker 1: matter what religion you might be or you know, whether

1205
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 1: you believe in God or not, we all have those

1206
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: moments where there's a force bigger than us moving through us.

1207
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 1: And I think you feel that in nature nature's a

1208
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 1: force or outdoors. You know, that's how we began outside

1209
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:28,719
Speaker 1: under the starry night, you know, with whatever the equivalent

1210
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:33,839
Speaker 1: of crickets chirpping, where feeling the breeze, the seeing the clouds.

1211
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 1: I mean, there's something about that, Keith that no drug

1212
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: can give us. That's how we began and to return

1213
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 1: to that. We have the power to do that every day,

1214
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 1: to go out there. I mean even there's all this

1215
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: research on you know, how cities need parks. We need

1216
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: those parks. We need to commune with nature, we need

1217
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 1: to see trees. There's research on how if we're in

1218
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: a hospital room, you know, recovering from something, if there's

1219
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: a window in that room and there's a much more

1220
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: than a window, but a tree outside in the courtyard,

1221
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: the days that we're in the hospital are reduced. You know,

1222
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 1: there is something about connection with nature and connection with

1223
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 1: people that is far more powerful than any medication. And

1224
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:27,559
Speaker 1: so when you are out there camping, yes, we are

1225
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 1: just part of something bigger than us. I don't know

1226
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: if that means we're insignificant, but you know it's it's

1227
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: it's but I.

1228
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: Liked hearing that because it was almost like it's kind

1229
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 2: of like art moves you write, words can move you.

1230
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,000
Speaker 2: And I liked when he said that because I'm like, yeah,

1231
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:45,480
Speaker 2: and as much as I again, we are not insignificant,

1232
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 2: but I do like how you rewarded it as But

1233
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 2: nature is so much bigger than us, right, And sometimes

1234
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:53,759
Speaker 2: it's important to step into those settings because I think,

1235
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: you know, there's so many just different instances where you

1236
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 2: can feel like your problems are so big and there's

1237
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 2: all these things weighing you down.

1238
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 3: And then it's like you go into the world and

1239
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 3: you realize.

1240
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 2: You know, I'm somebody that lives in New York City, right,

1241
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 2: there's people that are in war what did you say, war?

1242
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 1: War torn countries.

1243
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 3: We're torn countries, right. It's like our problems could be worse.

1244
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 3: Get outside, you know.

1245
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 2: And my favorite thing about talking to you is as

1246
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,759
Speaker 2: a psychologist that sees and hears about such a vast

1247
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 2: range of issues that people are having, right from extremely

1248
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 2: traumatizing situations, people passing away, dealing with extreme levels of grief,

1249
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 2: extreme levels of depression, anxiety. Like, there's so many issues

1250
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 2: that we can face mentally, but just by getting outside

1251
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 2: and moving your body and connecting with people and connecting

1252
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 2: with people and yourself in a deeper way that can

1253
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 2: cure you.

1254
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, Kate, And I think you know, it helps

1255
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,720
Speaker 1: us to circle back to where we began. You know,

1256
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about running, being in the zone. That

1257
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 1: is when there's a force bigger than us going through us.

1258
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 1: And we can make that happen anytime we want by

1259
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 1: doing what we love, whether it's painting or writing, or running,

1260
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 1: or playing tennis or standing up in front of a crowd,

1261
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:20,799
Speaker 1: you know, pouring our hearts out about what we're passionate

1262
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: about and feel has meaning or purpose, you know, connecting

1263
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 1: with people, building communities. We are in the zone in

1264
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:33,719
Speaker 1: those moments and if we you know, people can find

1265
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: those moments in their lives and you know, we can't

1266
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,760
Speaker 1: help it. It's part of being human, you know. But

1267
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 1: just to you know, have two moments like that in

1268
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 1: the morning, two moments like that in the afternoon, two

1269
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 1: moments like that in the evening. That is a meaningful,

1270
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: purposeful life. Yep.

1271
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if it was easy, it wouldn't be worth it, right,

1272
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 2: And I wanted to circle back as we kind of

1273
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,600
Speaker 2: wrap up here, but you know, you you broke your

1274
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 2: arm and to get surgery during your last New York

1275
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 2: City Marathon, and about two weeks later you were already

1276
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 2: talking about all the races that you were signing up for, right,

1277
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 2: So I also think it's just while it's important to

1278
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 2: get outside and move your body, as simple as that

1279
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 2: may be, it's also important to challenge yourself to.

1280
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:14,440
Speaker 3: Do hard things.

1281
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 2: And you now have coming up in the next several months,

1282
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 2: you're going to be doing the Berlin Marathon, maybe the Chicago.

1283
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: Marathis to the Chicago Marathon and the New York Marathon.

1284
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 1: Everybody keeps telling me I got a redemption journey to

1285
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: New York again. I'll be honest, I don't know if

1286
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 1: my legs are capable of doing three America three marathons,

1287
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 1: then I think it's five or six weeks the way

1288
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 1: they fall schedule wise. But I'm going to do the

1289
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 1: first one and go all out. That's Berlin, and then

1290
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,640
Speaker 1: see how I feel for Chicago, and if I have

1291
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:48,639
Speaker 1: to walk half of it, I'll walk half of it,

1292
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 1: and then two weeks later is New York again. As

1293
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 1: you get older, legs aren't what they used to be.

1294
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 1: But if I have to walk the New York Marathon,

1295
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: I will I just want to be a part of

1296
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 1: the experience and to feel what it's like to cross

1297
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: that finish line that I didn't get to this year. Okay.

1298
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 2: One of the things that I want to ask you

1299
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 2: as your daughter in law is, you know, I know

1300
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 2: you've lived a pretty interesting life. Right in high school,

1301
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 2: you lived in Brazil for a bit, you speak like

1302
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 2: six languages. What made you want to go into psychology?

1303
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 1: I think everything boils down to what motivates people across cultures.

1304
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: Everything boils down to why do we behave as we do?

1305
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to help learn how to help

1306
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: people help themselves, you know. I think living overseas, learning

1307
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:42,560
Speaker 1: from other cultures, seeing the United States from across the oceans,

1308
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 1: you know, kind of looking at our own country and

1309
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: cultures from a different angle, it just really inspired me

1310
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: to learn how people push through adversity, how they face it,

1311
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 1: you know. And you know your ad is different from

1312
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 1: my adversity, but that's really what we're all going through

1313
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 1: in life. Life is not easy, you know, and and

1314
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 1: learning from other people, other cultures how you face adversity,

1315
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 1: it inspired me to be a psychologist so I could

1316
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,439
Speaker 1: help people help themselves. And I find that. You know,

1317
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:23,760
Speaker 1: no matter who I'm working with, I learn just as much,

1318
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: if not more, from them than they could ever learn

1319
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 1: from me. I think it's just you know, partly establishing

1320
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: that connection, you know, finding that place where they can

1321
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:38,639
Speaker 1: help themselves and feel meaning purpose. That's it.

1322
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:40,759
Speaker 2: So you had a very we talked about social media.

1323
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 2: You had a very viral clip that went off two

1324
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:44,679
Speaker 2: years ago when you were running the New York City

1325
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 2: Marathon where you ran over to Jeremy, my husband, your son,

1326
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 2: and you said, Jeremy, how does my lipstick look?

1327
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 3: My nabling super staymadic? Is it still on? And I

1328
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:55,600
Speaker 3: think that was at the twenty two mile mark, and

1329
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 3: guys trust that that lipstick was still on. It really

1330
01:19:58,280 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 3: doesn't come off even after your.

1331
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 2: Show or any all the things it could make if

1332
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 2: you're probably an entire week.

1333
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 3: That's how much lipsticks.

1334
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 1: More than one marathon for sure.

1335
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:10,040
Speaker 2: But what was it like for you as a psychologist

1336
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 2: seeing that reaction? Like, what did that show to you

1337
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:14,799
Speaker 2: about the positive side of social media?

1338
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 1: You know, I was blown away, Kate. I think it

1339
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 1: was humbling to you know, I have I like to think,

1340
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, as any other person, we all have our

1341
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 1: share of accomplishments in life, and then to see that

1342
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: that like two second thing reached more people than anything

1343
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 1: I've ever done. That I like to think maybe has

1344
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: more meaning than wearing lipstick. I was blown away.

1345
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 3: More meaning than wearing lipstick or being in a viral

1346
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 3: clip online. Yeah.

1347
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just was blown away by how some two

1348
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: second thing can have such an impact on the power

1349
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,480
Speaker 1: of social media. I think I didn't realize until that

1350
01:20:55,479 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: that viral clip how powerful it is. And I started

1351
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 1: reading through some of the comments and there there were,

1352
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: my god, there were a couple that made me cry.

1353
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe that like two seconds can impact

1354
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 1: someone I've never met. I mean, one guy I think

1355
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:18,759
Speaker 1: commented about when Jeremy screamed mom, mom, how it reminded

1356
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: him of when his mother was being buried and they

1357
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 1: were putting her coffin into the ground and he was

1358
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:28,720
Speaker 1: screaming mom, mom, with the same tone, the same intensity.

1359
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: I just burst into tears. I couldn't believe how some

1360
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: two second thing with you know, was still fresh, my

1361
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 1: lipstick is still still going strong, you know, and Jeremy's

1362
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 1: screaming mom mom, how that could touch people in so

1363
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: many different ways was an education for me.

1364
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even even you know that was two years ago.

1365
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 2: But even this past marathon, we had posted obviously, we

1366
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,719
Speaker 2: posted a video about you, you know, after the marathon

1367
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,160
Speaker 2: to say, you know, you didn't you didn't finish this

1368
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 2: marathon where you fell at mile twelve, you got hurt,

1369
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 2: but you're already talking about the next marathons that you're

1370
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 2: gonna run, So you're gonna come back stronger or walk,

1371
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 2: and you know what, that's that's a common experience that

1372
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:11,639
Speaker 2: so many athletes have, right Like I tore my When

1373
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 2: I tore my ACL, I had to go through a

1374
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 2: year of basically not even being able to walk or run,

1375
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 2: and all I could think about was coming back stronger, Right,

1376
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 2: So I think that just shows the grit that people

1377
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 2: have and uh, the urge to come back stronger and

1378
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 2: be able to do what they wants did. And obviously

1379
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 2: there's people that get injured and can't do what they

1380
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 2: want did and they come back mentally stronger in a

1381
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:30,680
Speaker 2: different way.

1382
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 1: That's when you reroute and change the finish line and

1383
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: it's a different story.

1384
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 2: It's a different story. And Jordan Litz, the guy that

1385
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 2: we just had on you were talking about a dcent fit.

1386
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 3: But you know that was interesting.

1387
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 2: Too, because you touched people there in a way that

1388
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 2: you know, I had the people. I had the people

1389
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 2: at the medical tent that were messaging on Instagram saying,

1390
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like that was your mother in law,

1391
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 2: like I can't believe it, Like I was the one

1392
01:22:57,880 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 2: that helped her at the medical tent, or I was

1393
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 2: the one that read her out of the race. So

1394
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,280
Speaker 2: it is interesting how these micro interactions can really affect

1395
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 2: people in a bigger way, and then you use social

1396
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 2: media to amplify it, and all of a sudden, you know,

1397
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:11,040
Speaker 2: we had Megan reach out right and ye.

1398
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:14,919
Speaker 1: The story of Megan, who now we're best buddies emailing

1399
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 1: each other. She got hurt at mile twelve too, she

1400
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: was further away from a medical tent, so her story

1401
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: was a little more excruciatingly painful and longer. But we're

1402
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: we're gonna both run the Berlin Marathon next door. I haven't.

1403
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 1: We've talked with each other on the phone, and you

1404
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: know we're already. I'm gonna tell her what hotel we're

1405
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: staying at. So I'd made a new friend from this.

1406
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 2: Let's tell the story of Megan really quickly, so we

1407
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 2: post a video of Dana running the New York City Marathon,

1408
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:43,440
Speaker 2: getting injured at mile twelve, then being at the hospital.

1409
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:44,639
Speaker 3: Afterwards and having to get surgery.

1410
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 2: I then get an email the next day from a

1411
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 2: woman named Megan who reaches out and says, Kate, I'm

1412
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 2: so sorry to hear about your mother in law.

1413
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 3: Funny story, but.

1414
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:57,639
Speaker 2: I actually also got injured during the New York City

1415
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,800
Speaker 2: Marathon around mile twelve and have had you know more

1416
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 2: about what happened to her medically than I do. But

1417
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 2: she was like, the crazy coincidence here is that you know,

1418
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 2: during the spring last spring, I was running the Boston

1419
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 2: Marathon with my daughter and Dana, your mother in law,

1420
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:17,560
Speaker 2: actually happened to be right next to us during the

1421
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 2: Boston Marathon, and we have a picture to show it.

1422
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:23,960
Speaker 2: And the picture is you in front of her, her

1423
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,559
Speaker 2: daughter and her running running the Boston Marathon. And she

1424
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 2: actually has that photo framed in her house. And it

1425
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,559
Speaker 2: was just crazy, a crazy coincidence that you know, X

1426
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 2: months later, at the New York City Marathon the same

1427
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 2: year you and her got injured at that same spot.

1428
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:40,400
Speaker 3: So it's this weird kismet that happened.

1429
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 2: That I did an injury, but you two both have

1430
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 2: that same mentality of coming back stronger. And she was

1431
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:48,680
Speaker 2: talking about all the marathons that she's now signing up for.

1432
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 2: And now you guys are running the Berlin Marathon together

1433
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 2: and I'm sure not together, but you're both running it

1434
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:53,800
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you'll meet up.

1435
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely.

1436
01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 2: But it also just went to show that it puts

1437
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 2: things into perspective, right, because it also put things into

1438
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 2: perspective when we were at the hospital with you and

1439
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 2: you it literally felt like a graz Anatomy episode where

1440
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 2: all these people are being rolled into the hospital on

1441
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 2: stretchers with bandages on their head and there, you know,

1442
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 2: their race bibs on their stomachs mile twelve.

1443
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 1: I hope they, you know, do something about mile twelve

1444
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: next year because it got a lot of people, not

1445
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 1: just mile.

1446
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 3: Twelve, right, it's the entire marathon.

1447
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 2: And it just goes to show that, like, you're not

1448
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 2: alone in the experiences that you're having.

1449
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 3: Even if you feel like the worst thing.

1450
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:33,679
Speaker 2: Ever has happened to you, just know that there's other

1451
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,880
Speaker 2: people experiencing maybe the exact same.

1452
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:41,080
Speaker 1: Thing, right, Absolutely, Kate yes, yes, we're not alone.

1453
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:41,759
Speaker 3: We're not alone.

1454
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 1: We are never alone.

1455
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 3: And was that nice for you to be able to

1456
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 3: connect with Megan?

1457
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yes, yeah, and we've done countless emails back

1458
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 1: and forth since then, phone call and yeah, yeah, talked

1459
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 1: on the phone. I can hardly wait to meet her

1460
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 1: in person. But and maybe it'll be at the Berlin Marathon.

1461
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 1: We'll see. But just amazing how connections can arise from social.

1462
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 3: Media and mysterious ways.

1463
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, absolutely.

1464
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 2: Well let's leave everybody with one final piece of advice

1465
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 2: from you, psychologist, doctor Dana Libo, performance coach, give us

1466
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 2: one piece of advice that you want everybody to to.

1467
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 3: Take away from this episode.

1468
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: Well, I you know, I said this even in the

1469
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: running interview we did. I do believe in KFG, you know,

1470
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:31,679
Speaker 1: keep again whatever you want the f to stand.

1471
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 3: You can curse on this podcast, Okay, keep fucking going.

1472
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 1: Uh just just that's one piece. And when you need

1473
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 1: to press the pause button, unrest and recover, allow yourself

1474
01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: that as well, you know, but don't be two mired

1475
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:55,759
Speaker 1: in one and not the other. Find that sweet spot,

1476
01:26:56,040 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, keep going, rest, recover, keep going, rest, recover,

1477
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 1: but find your sweet spot. And also, you know everyone

1478
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:13,839
Speaker 1: has meaning purpose. Keep running towards that, you know, whatever

1479
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 1: it is for you, find your meaning, find your purpose

1480
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 1: if you don't have it already, but you probably do

1481
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:23,559
Speaker 1: and know what that is. Keep going, keep going for that.

1482
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, just keep moving.

1483
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 2: And you know, I ask people like you said, I

1484
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:30,479
Speaker 2: ask people in every single one of my running interviews,

1485
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 2: what is a quoter model that.

1486
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 3: You live by?

1487
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 2: And some people think it's catchy and you know, they're

1488
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,120
Speaker 2: catchy whatever the word is. And some people think it's,

1489
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,400
Speaker 2: you know, maybe like a lame question, but I actually

1490
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,720
Speaker 2: love the question because you never know what people are

1491
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:46,400
Speaker 2: going to say, and it's always the short quotes that

1492
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:48,799
Speaker 2: always stand out to me. It's not the elaborate quotes,

1493
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 2: although you know, you get a lot of people that

1494
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 2: quote the man in the Arenal quote.

1495
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 3: Which I always do love.

1496
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 2: But things like KFG, these simple mantras that we can

1497
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 2: replan our head are the important ones, right, And it's

1498
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:03,839
Speaker 2: the ones that stick with us in those hard moments,

1499
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 2: And the ones that have always stood out to me

1500
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 2: are ones like you said, KFG, keep fucking going. There's

1501
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:10,479
Speaker 2: another one, Nicholas Thompson. We mentioned him in this episode,

1502
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 2: but his is right foot, left foot, right foot left,

1503
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 2: Oh simple. And then the one that I always think

1504
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 2: about is you can't be one hundred percent all of

1505
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 2: the time. And a big time runner said that to me,

1506
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 2: and that's always been my favorite quote because I think

1507
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 2: as athletes and as runners and as people that value

1508
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 2: working out, we hate those moments where we have to

1509
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 2: turn it off right and the foot can't be on

1510
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 2: the gas right the gas pedal the entire time. But

1511
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:37,559
Speaker 2: it's important to remember that you can't be one hundred

1512
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 2: percent all of the time, and you have to have

1513
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 2: moments where you reset. But then you have to have

1514
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 2: moments too where you decide, Okay, I've reset, and now

1515
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 2: I have to just keep moving.

1516
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:53,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you said it, Keate, So keep keep moving

1517
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:57,080
Speaker 1: and whatever you can do to help the world keep moving.

1518
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent behind you, and we all are.

1519
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 2: Well. Thank you so much Data for being on our

1520
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 2: podcast today.

1521
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:05,679
Speaker 3: I'm feeling good.

1522
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,800
Speaker 2: I hope your post run high absolutely has kicked into

1523
01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 2: full gear by.

1524
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 1: Now, definitely, and I think it's gonna it's gonna last

1525
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:13,800
Speaker 1: for some time.

1526
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:14,120
Speaker 3: Kate.

1527
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1528
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,479
Speaker 2: We are currently in Palm Springs, California. We are just

1529
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:21,479
Speaker 2: wrapping up a family Christmas trip that we've been on

1530
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 2: for four days. Here we come out to calib We've

1531
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 2: been coming out to Palm Springs for a few years now,

1532
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 2: and then the next year might be a different location,

1533
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 2: who knows. But as a reminder, Jeremy and I are

1534
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 2: in California for the next you know, several weeks. We're

1535
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:39,080
Speaker 2: gonna be here till the end of February, and then

1536
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 2: we're going to be in Austin, Texas for a week

1537
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 2: filming with some other really cool guests like Dana. But

1538
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,680
Speaker 2: if you guys have questions for Dana, she might be

1539
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 2: visiting California in the next couple of months while we're

1540
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 2: out here.

1541
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: Again, give me an excuse to come back.

1542
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 3: Kate.

1543
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm so again honored that I've was invited included in

1544
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 1: all this, and you know, the whole family first of all,

1545
01:30:01,240 --> 01:30:03,760
Speaker 1: so thrilled to have you a part of our family now,

1546
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 1: and I know it's still new, and we're just so

1547
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:09,719
Speaker 1: excited that you're a part of this clan and whatever

1548
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:11,679
Speaker 1: we can do to support you along the way, we're

1549
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:12,559
Speaker 1: here for you, all right.

1550
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 3: Well, you know one of the things that we can

1551
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 3: do to support is. Guys.

1552
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,640
Speaker 2: If you have any questions for Dana coming out of

1553
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 2: this episode that we did not answer, please dm me

1554
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 2: on Post Run High. We're at Kate Max and we

1555
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,920
Speaker 2: will write all of your questions down and the next

1556
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 2: time we are sitting down with Dana, we will be

1557
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 2: sure to answer them. I'm sure there's a lot of

1558
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:32,800
Speaker 2: questions that came up to you, and I apologize if

1559
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 2: I didn't scratch that itch for you during this episode,

1560
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 2: but we'll do it next time.

1561
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:41,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation Kate.

1562
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode

1563
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 2: with Doctor Dana Libo. I hope you enjoyed our conversation

1564
01:30:47,479 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 2: as much as I know our team did. If you

1565
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 2: guys are getting a lot of value out of Post

1566
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 2: Run High, please make sure to follow this podcast and

1567
01:30:57,400 --> 01:31:00,559
Speaker 2: share this episode with somebody who could learn a decent

1568
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 2: bit from it. We love you, guys and appreciate you

1569
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:06,600
Speaker 2: so much, and we will see you next week on

1570
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:10,840
Speaker 2: Post Run High. As always, our dms are open. Any

1571
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 2: follow up questions that you have for doctor Dana Libo

1572
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:17,160
Speaker 2: please slide into our dms and ask them, and we're

1573
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 2: always open to guest requests, so keep us posted on

1574
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 2: what you're thinking and who you'd like to learn from next.

1575
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode

1576
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:33,640
Speaker 2: with doctor Dana Libo. I hope you enjoyed our conversation

1577
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 2: as much as I know our team did. If you

1578
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:39,519
Speaker 2: guys are getting a lot of value out of Post

1579
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:43,680
Speaker 2: Run High, please make sure to follow this podcast and

1580
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 2: share this episode with somebody who could learn a decent

1581
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 2: bit from it. We love you, guys and appreciate you

1582
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 2: so much, and we will see you next week on

1583
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:57,679
Speaker 2: Post Run High. As always, our dms are open. Any

1584
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 2: follow up questions that you have for doctor Dana Libo

1585
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 2: please slide into our dms and ask them, and we're

1586
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 2: always open to guest requests, so keep us posted on

1587
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:11,080
Speaker 2: what you're thinking and who you'd like to learn from next.