1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic production at my Heart Radio. 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: What happens in tiny places like small screens. There are 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: multiple brands which are stacked next to each other. When 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: you come to the checkout page in an online shopping store, 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: the name master Card, nobody could even read it. So 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: if I dropped that name and occupied that space by 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: enlarging my interlocking cycles a little bit, the visibility was 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: suddenly far more superior than any of my competitors. So 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: I walked to my cestal, I think we should drop 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: our name from our logo. The look was priceless. Hi 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: am Bob Pittman. And this is Math and Magic Stories 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: from the Frontiers and Marketing, where we explore the business 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: and marketing world through the entire gamut of analytics and creative. 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Today we have someone who has covered it all engineering, sale, 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: business CEO, all of the world, many sectors, and his hallmark, 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: his transformation. Raja Rajaminar, Chief Marketing Officer and Chief Communications Officer, 17 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: President of Healthcare Business for master Card. Born and raised 18 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: in India, his undergrad is in chemical engineering. Then he 19 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: got his NBA with a focus on marketing. Valedictorian of 20 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: his class. He also received two Gold medals for academic excellence. 21 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: Even today, he's still winning awards for his prowess as 22 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: a marketer. Just out of school, he worked for the 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: largest paint company in India, then Una Lever and Sales 24 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: as a product manager. He went on to City Bank 25 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: in Dubai, London and New York. He was Chairman and 26 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: CEO of Diners Club, where he engineered a very visible turnaround. 27 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: He went on the City Bank and City Global Cards 28 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: as e VP and CMO, Chief Innovation and Marketing Officer 29 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: at Humana, then All Point before he landed at MasterCard 30 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: and for all the great innovation there, he'll probably remember 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: most for the new logo and image of the company. 32 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: Another transformation. Welcome Raja. Thank you very much, Bob. We've 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: got a lot to talk about today, but I first 34 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: want to warm up with you in sixty seconds? Ready 35 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: to go? Yes? Do you prefer sunrise or sunset? Sunrise, 36 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: Dubai or New York City, Instagram or Twitter, Twitter, golf 37 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: or meditation? Meditation call or text? Call, coffee or tea? 38 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: Neither cats or dogs, dogs, Bifa hummus or lentils hummus. Okay, 39 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: it's about to get harder. Smartest person you know A J. Bana. 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: Favorite book Jonathan Livingston, seagull, childhood hero at Bollywood actor 41 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: by the name of Anti Ramaro. Favorite sport to watch cricket, 42 00:02:53,320 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: favorite food, Indian carries, last vacation Kenya, secret talent, astrology. 43 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: Favorite restaurant in the world the Rock. What did you 44 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: want to be when you're growing up? Astronomer? What's something 45 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: we might be surprised to learn about you that I 46 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: have actually studied astrology? Okay, if you can have one superpower, 47 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: what would it be? I should be able to sing? Done? Okay, 48 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: let's jump right into the branding upgrade for MasterCard. You 49 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: push the company into digital and voice world in a 50 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: rather dramatic way, and you've got a lot of attention 51 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: for it. Can you take us through the why first? Yeah? So, firstly, 52 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: MasterCard brand is not a director consumer brand. We don't 53 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: directly market our products to and consumers, but we do 54 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: it through the banks. So it's a B two B 55 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: two see play. Historically, the brand has always played a 56 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: second fiddle kind of a role in the overall scheme 57 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: of things that we wanted to change that we wanted 58 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: to create a pull for the brand, so we want 59 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: to make sure that consumers a are aware of the brand, 60 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: be that all the right perceptions about the brand, they 61 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: have a liking for the brand, and hopefully they will 62 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: demand our brand versus somebody else's brand when they have 63 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: a choice. So this was the lofty aspiration with which 64 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: we started. If you look at our brand, it has 65 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: been in existence for more than fifty plus years, right, 66 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: so we had inherited a fantastic recognition for the brand, 67 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: which was both a blessing and a curse. Blessing because 68 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: you have those inherent properties which every brand would strive 69 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: and aspire for. But the curses because any change that 70 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: you want to do comes with a huge risk. This 71 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: was exactly the conversation I had with the agency folks. 72 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: I said, I want our brand to really look very modern, 73 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: very contemporary, very futuristic. Should be esthetically superior, should really 74 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: cut across all the categories, not just payments. Should feel 75 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: native in many environments. But the two interlocking circles of 76 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: red and yellow you cannot change. You cannot change the 77 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: color red or yellow, or you cannot change the word 78 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: master card. Then they just looked, so what then, what 79 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: the hell can we change everything? Is literally fixed. It 80 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: was a long journey of two years and we came 81 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: up with exactly the design which addressed every single aspect 82 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: of what we set out to accomplish. We retained the colors, 83 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: but gave little tinge to those colors, which made them 84 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: look very esthetically superior, more contemporary, more youthful, more energy, etcetera. 85 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: Optimized for the digital Channel's quite a lot. That went 86 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: very well for us. So after two years, and this 87 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: was a very thoughtful process, we went ahead and dropped 88 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: in a master Card from our logo. That was a 89 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: really big move. It was a huge move. You should 90 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: imagine the kind of conversation I would have had with 91 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: my that I'm going to ask you about the internal 92 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: on it. So I walked to my C I think 93 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: we should drop our name from our logo. The look 94 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: was priceless, you know, in terms of it's almost very 95 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: shocking to So why would you want to drop your 96 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: name from your logo? There are two main reasons why 97 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: we did it. On the one hand, the recognition of 98 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: the brand and even without the name MasterCard written was 99 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: extremely high. Eighty four pus in. People around the world 100 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: knew that this was MasterCard, even without the logo written there. 101 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: That was a big reassurance. Secondly, what happens in tiny 102 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: places like small screens, there are multiple brands which are 103 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: stacked next to each other. When you come to the 104 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: checkout page in an online shopping store, the name master Card, 105 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: nobody could even read it. So if I dropped that 106 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: name and occupied that space by enlarging my interlocking circles 107 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: a little bit, the visibility was suddenly far more superior 108 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: than any of my competitors. So we said, this has 109 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: got a great advantage. Plus, also, MasterCard is just not 110 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: a payments company. We had it too, so many spaces. 111 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: For example, I'm also ahead of our health care business, 112 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: so we are into other spaces than the traditional payment space. 113 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: Per se, dropping the name MasterCard emphasized the name master 114 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: cardless and the card in the master Card even lesser, 115 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: and therefore the applicability across multiple spaces has suddenly got up. 116 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: And because it looks more stylish and very contemporary, ray 117 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: we could put it in many places which in the 118 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: past would have been very difficult for us to put 119 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: a logo out there. So that way was a very 120 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: big move, but thankfully it went extremely well for us. 121 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: So let's get the story behind the scenes. So you 122 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: tell the CEO we're going to drop MasterCard. The reaction 123 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: is you're out of your mind. Okay, you now talk 124 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: to the people in your marketing group, your team. There's 125 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: got to be some skeptics who go, wait a minute, 126 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: you can't take the name absolutely yes, So how did 127 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: you work through that? Well, first and foremost, I had 128 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: to carry the team with me, make them see the 129 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: reason why we're wanting to do what we're wanting to do, 130 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: What is the sense behind it, and what can go 131 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: wrong at worst? And if it does go wrong, is 132 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: the damage containable or not? So are we mitigating the risk. 133 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,239 Speaker 1: There are some folks who want to reassurance that everything 134 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: will be find nothing will fall apart. Then are those 135 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: people who want to soar, and to them, showcase very 136 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: clearly that this is going to put us in every 137 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: different league. It would be really taking us into the future. 138 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: And that really worked quite well. The logo is to 139 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: be owned by the whole Company's not just a marketing 140 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: department's logo, it's a company's logo. Then we had to 141 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: go to the board eventually and then share it with 142 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: them and everyone of us had to be speaking in 143 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: unison to the board saying that hey, this is a 144 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: great idea and we are all in it, we are 145 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: all behind it. It was a journey. As I said, 146 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: it was not done overnight. It took us two years. 147 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: When I think it's interesting about it is you did 148 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: this driven by this new digital world in which the 149 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: logo had to exist, but you also did it for 150 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: this emerging voice world as well. NBC until they've all 151 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: got little Sonic I d s, but you took it 152 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: a step further and did this beginning to end consumer 153 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: journey Audio. Tell us a little bit about what you 154 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: did and how you did that, because the voice environment 155 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: is becoming so prominent with voice commerce and all the 156 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: statistics when I looked at them, they were very compelling. 157 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: So for example, last year, ten percent of all US 158 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: households already had a device at their home like Alexa 159 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: or a Google Home, and not only that, seventy of 160 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: them have done at least one purchase transaction in the 161 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: preceding few months. So voice commerce is here to stay 162 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: and it is growing pretty rapidly. If you look at 163 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: the work that we had done on our logo, it's fantastic, 164 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: but in a voice environment, how do I even showcase it? 165 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: There is no visual real estate and my brand was 166 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: predominantly visual, our only visual, So we needed to find 167 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: a different way of depicting our brand in the context 168 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: of sound. So we said, the basic element of everything 169 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: that we do in sound should be off of a melody. Now, 170 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: the melody has to be neutral. They should not be 171 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: contextually appropriate to some and not to others. It has 172 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: to be appropriate everywhere. It has to be likable. It 173 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: has to be memorable, because without memorability there is no association. 174 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: It has to be hormable. It should be simple enough 175 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: to hum because that which you can hum will be 176 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: retained in your mind much much longer and more effectively. 177 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: It had to be very versatile, whether I'm laying it 178 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: into buy or in South America or in Germany, anywhere 179 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: in the world. It has to feel native. So that 180 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: versatility and able to render the melody in different contexts 181 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: has to be there. And finally, what we also said 182 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: is that different contexts, whether it is you're in a 183 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: soccer match, audio or an opera setting, it should be 184 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: very native and very very appropriate to those contexts. So 185 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: this was the brief from me to the agency, and 186 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: again they looked like I had multiple heads and how 187 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: can you really come up with something like this? Again, 188 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: it was a long journey. We worked with composers, we 189 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: worked with musicians, we worked with music experts, musicologists, everyone 190 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: around the world, and eventually we came up with this melody. 191 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: And that melody is something which we'll go into all 192 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: our ads, into all our events, into all our presentations 193 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: as a background and also as a music on hold 194 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: when somebody calls up our office and people can download 195 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: it as a ring tone and so on. So this 196 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: is one level. Level two is we took a subset 197 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: of this thirty second melody which is about three seconds, 198 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: and this is a sonic signature, so end of every ad, 199 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: PEO will have this three second sonic signature plate. Then 200 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: the third level was unlike many other companies, MasterCard is 201 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: in your purchase transactions. So each time a transaction goes 202 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: through successfully, can we insert the MasterCards sound, So we 203 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: call it the sonic acceptance sound. So the acceptance sound 204 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: is a subset of the sonic signature, which is a 205 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: subset of the melody, and the acceptance sound is one 206 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: point three seconds. Each one of them is exactly the 207 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: same set of notes, and you can clearly see the 208 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: connection between them in a very obvious fashion. Very happy 209 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: to say that nearly seven point six million points of 210 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: interaction around the world today already have God the MasterCards 211 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: Sonic Acceptance sound embedded in those devices. Seven point six 212 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: million is good, but not good enough because we want 213 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: a recognition now the visual logo to more than fifty years. 214 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: I don't have fifty years to get the recognition. So 215 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: what we did was basically said, are there ways to 216 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: really get into the culture. People are not going to 217 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: be anxious and enthusiastic to listen to a corporate sound, 218 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: so you have to embedy yourself in those areas where 219 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: they're already listening. So that's how we said, we have 220 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: to create music. We had our first song which we released. 221 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: When you listen to the song, it doesn't look like 222 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: a corporate anthem. Nobody wants to listen to corporate anthems. 223 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: This is exactly like any regular good pop single. But 224 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: it has gotten nice infusion of the melody that is 225 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: not intruding, that is not annoying, that's not irritating. Now 226 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: we're going to have about eleven or twelve off these 227 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: in one album that we will launch, and the whole 228 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: idea is each one of them would look completely different 229 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: than the other. And at the same time there is 230 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: this undertone of masterca it has to be very subtle. 231 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: This is going to be a new way we're going 232 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: to popularize and get our brand recognition up. So it's 233 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: again a very big, different experiment that we have embarked on. 234 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: We just launched it in ces. You tell the CEO, 235 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: now we're going to make songs. What's the reaction there? 236 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: Another priceless moment, Another priceless moment in the Absolutely you've 237 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: done other transformations before. What lessons did you call upon 238 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: for this transformation? The first and foremost is it's very 239 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: critical to have a buy in from everyone. Even the 240 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: brightest ideas get killed if they are not emotionally embraced 241 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: by your team and by your peers. That was the 242 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: one big lesson. So I went out of my way 243 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: to socialize these concepts around the company and give people 244 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: an opportunity to weigh in so that they should feel 245 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: that they are part of the whole. Co creation as 246 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: opposed to marketing is sitting in its Ivory Tower, creating 247 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: some fancy stuff and then thrusting it down the throats 248 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: of everyone at the company. And beyond. What also happens 249 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: is people get excited. On one hand, they realize how 250 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: difficult the creative process is, so therefore they would not 251 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: be very light about making their comments on something which 252 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: is creative. And the second one is I want allies 253 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: and partners to be able to weigh in in favor 254 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: of this concept if they truly buy into it. And 255 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: that's all was invaluable. When you're coming up with new concepts, 256 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: particularly some of them might not be very evident in 257 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: terms of what their applicability is. The might think that 258 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: this stupid idea, you know, so unrelated to master Card, 259 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: what are we doing, etcetera. So those kind of areas 260 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: I can very well tackled through this process of socializing 261 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: and getting employees buy into it. We're going to keep going, 262 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: but I want to take a step back. I want 263 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: to go back in time. You were born in the 264 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: early sixties in India where Hyderabad. What was going on 265 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: in India at that time, What's the context of the 266 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: world You grew up in India in those days was 267 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: pretty peaceful, slowly developing country. The state I was born 268 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: in was formed only for our five years before then, 269 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: so it was still a new state at that point 270 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: in time, and a lot of development was happening on 271 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: the ground. The concept of television did not exist. We 272 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: had radio. Radio was a real mass media. It was 273 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: an event for the family to get around the radio. 274 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: We used to listen to movies on radios. There was also, 275 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: I think a general sense of upward mobility and people 276 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: wanted to succeed and grow in their careers and in society. 277 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: Education was seen to be the best route for you 278 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: to grow in life, and so education was a huge emphasis. 279 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: My mom was. She was brilliant, one of the brightest 280 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: minds that I have seen. Mathematically, she was a genius. 281 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: She could even do my engineering math in her head 282 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: without any calculators. Tough love is what we used to 283 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: get from her, and she would say, you have to 284 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: absolutely to your best and not feel entitled to anything, 285 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: and the only way that you will grow in life 286 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: is by educating yourself, working hard, etcetera. So I think 287 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: that was a time when the values for sort of 288 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: being instilled very strongly. I come from a middle class background, 289 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: So these things were very important to us when you 290 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: were young growing up in this world. Did you ever 291 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: see yourself living in Dubai, London or the US being 292 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: on the world stage like you are today? No? I 293 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: did not. What would your aspiration? Then? I thought I 294 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: would become a civil services officer, so in India, the 295 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: best of the kids would want to join the Indian 296 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: administrative services. That used to be my aspiration. But once 297 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: I got into chemical engineering, I started feeling that there 298 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: are other things that I would like to do. I 299 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: did my chemical engineering and I was supposed to come 300 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: to the US and I had a full scholarship, but 301 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: unfortunately my mom at that stage had a heart attack, 302 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: so I stayed back in India. Then I went on 303 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: to do my m b A because NBA offered better 304 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: and faster career growth than classical engineer by itself. That's 305 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: where the marketing bug with me. When I had done 306 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: a campaign by my own hands for one of the 307 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: cosmetics companies during somebody internship. When you did that campaign, 308 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: was that what suddenly lit you up to say, I'm 309 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: a marketer, I'm not a chemical engineer. Correct, you jumped 310 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: from India Dubai London, the US. What kind of cultural 311 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: divide did you have to overcome or did you didn't 312 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: even know was there until you hit it. For me, 313 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: moving in different parts of India already sensitized me. But 314 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: as well, India is one country. Each state in India 315 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: is very different than the other state. I'm from South 316 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: of India and I worked in Mumbai, which was west 317 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: of India, and Delhi, which was north North. For all 318 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: you know, could be a completely different country than the South, 319 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: both in terms of the looks of the people that accent, 320 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: their language to speak is different, their cuisines are different, 321 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: so like two different countries. So moving across these countries, 322 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: I guess I got a little versatile in terms of 323 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: moving from one culture to another culture, though of course 324 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: there was a strong common Indian thread. The first time 325 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: when I went to Dubai, I was very pleasantly surprised. 326 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: While the country itself had very different cultural context and 327 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: religious wise, it's very different, the fundamentals are exactly the same. 328 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: They all had the same family values, they had the 329 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: same aspirations, they had the same fears, the same pain points. 330 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: I took my playbook from India the Fundamentals and the 331 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: foundational aspects, adapted them to Dubai and we had a 332 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: huge success around hand. We built market leading credit card 333 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: business there in less than nine months from launch, coming 334 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: right from behind and overtaking everyone else. So after my 335 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: first move to Dubai, we stopped feeling as being strangest 336 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: in the land. We felt completely at home. And my 337 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: wife has been a trooper, going with me from city 338 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: to city, country to country and taking get of the 339 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: families side of the equation. That made me able to 340 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: focus on the workfront. Just hold on a second, because 341 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: we've got so much more to talk about. We'll be 342 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: back after a quick break. Welcome back to math and magic. 343 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: So let's go back just a little bit, back to India. 344 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: You got into business at India's largest paint company, and 345 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 1: the largest paint company didn't have any marketers. You were 346 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: the only marketer. You then jumped a few years later 347 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: you went to the opposite You went to a company 348 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: all about marketers, UNI Leader, and you went into sales. 349 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: So how did you get it into that and why 350 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: sales instead of marketing. When I was at Asian Paints, 351 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: I had produced award winning campaigns and created a lot 352 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: of new concept. Life was very good. When I got 353 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: this call from Uniliver. I was interviewed by the vice 354 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: president of marketing and he liked what I brought to 355 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: the table. So once I joined, then he said you're 356 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: going to be in sales. I was horrified because I 357 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: always thought that sales was probably for the less intelligent, 358 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: less intellectual, and less creative people. If you had the 359 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: gift of the gab, you're go into sales if you 360 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: don't have any other skills. That was my perception in 361 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: those days. They said, I'm not going to go, so 362 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: he said, you gotta trust me. You can never be 363 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: a good marketer unless you're a good salesperson. You need 364 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: to know what it means to pound the pavements, what 365 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: it means to really sell the products to yourself and 366 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: fight the marketing warfares on the streets. It opened my 367 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: eyes and it is my guard. This is what sales is. 368 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: It is not what I thought it was. Even after 369 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: being in marketing for three years, by perception of sales 370 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: was very different. This was training by fire. I had 371 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: to learn to manage large sales teams remotely. You need 372 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: to really inspire them, you need to make them buy 373 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: into the objective of the company, make them feel that 374 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: energy to get up, go, sell and then kill competition. 375 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: It was an amazing experience for me on that level. 376 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: That was the best foundational program I ever had. I 377 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: ended up staying there for three years. So you jumped 378 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: to City Bank and you spent a number of years there. 379 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: How did you make that jump? So when I was 380 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: in India and I was approached by City Bank in 381 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: those days, City Bank had a gentleman, Bill Campbell, who 382 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: was hired from Philip Morris. He came to a City 383 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: Bank as the global head of Consumer Bank, and he 384 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: came up with the concept that we should not be 385 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: a bank, we should be a brand. We should not 386 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: behave like bankers, we should behave like marketers. He started 387 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: actually a movement literally in City Bank in those days 388 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: to hire people from the packaged courts industries and bring 389 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: them into the bank instriness, the culture and transform the 390 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: entire place. So that's how I was approached. It was 391 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: a great opportunity to get international exposure. Did you think 392 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: you needed to get out of India? Was that part 393 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: of your plan at this point? Once I was in Unilever, 394 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: I started thinking more globally. I said, I need to 395 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: have an aspiration to have much broader playground to play, 396 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: our canvas to paint on. So Yes, International was part 397 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: of my aspiration. Plus it was a new category. Literally 398 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: that was my third industry right and I said, this 399 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: is going to be very cool. I didn't by this 400 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: time how old were you. I was probably thirty one, 401 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: so you're still a very young man. Yeah I was, 402 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, I'll go ahead and take the role. 403 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: And it was also a great opportunity for me to 404 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: launch a business from zero. That also was very inspiring 405 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: for me. Right City Bank didn't have a credit card 406 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: business at those days in the Middle East and this 407 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: was going to be the first one. That was a 408 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: big thrill. So I went into it and when it 409 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: was successful, my responsibility started growing from credit cards to 410 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: all of the consumer bank and then I was promoted 411 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: again and then sent to London where I was responsible 412 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: for Europe, Middleastern Africa for all consumer with assets which 413 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: is credit cards, heart a loans, personal loans, mortgages. And 414 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: that was the first time I had experience of managing 415 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: Western markets the likes of Germany, France, UK, etcetera. That 416 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: was a fascinating experience. You went to run diners Club 417 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: that was thought to be a dead brand and you 418 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: really brought it back to life. Why did you say yes, 419 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: I'll do that, because that sounds like a hard mission 420 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: and to what did you do to really take this 421 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: tarnished brand sort of left behind and bring it back. 422 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: When I came to the US, I was looking for 423 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: a business management roll. I really wanted to have a 424 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: scalable business sizewise, and they got a good experience. So 425 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: when diners Club opportunity came along, I said, yeah, I 426 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: would like to take that. People told me it was 427 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: a suicidal mission. There were things which were probably doable 428 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: there that were not done. That was my perception from outside. 429 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: So I took the opportunity and it was in Chicago, 430 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: and what he realized was on the one and it 431 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: was a great brand. They had some solid strengths like, 432 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: for example, customer service, well every other card company was 433 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: putting you on automated voice recorders human beings who were 434 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: actually answering calls. And the rewards program was one of 435 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: the best in the industry compared to anybody else out there. 436 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: There was a lot of opportunity to cut costs. The 437 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: first one year was brutal cost cutting and how did 438 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: you do that? For example, we cut down the sizes 439 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: of offices. We gave up some floors in our buildings. 440 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: We used to work in those days four and a 441 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: half days a week in summers. I said, now will 442 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: work six days a week. There's a time for war 443 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: and the time of peace. Right. Renegotiated every single contract 444 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: all our vendors, telling them, look, guys, we need help 445 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: and we cannot afford these contracts. We brought down the 446 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: rates so significantly. My head of marketing, very bright consumer marketer. 447 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: She wanted to produce a campaign. We didn't have money 448 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: to produce a campaign, so we said, we need to 449 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: find something really innovative. So eventually we created a print 450 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: campaign out of Canada by paying twelve tho U S dollars. 451 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: That's it, so cost cutting we to get to that way. 452 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: The second year was all about growth. In those days, 453 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: Diners Club was not accepted anywhere, so people were not 454 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: takeing a Diners Club card because they will I use 455 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: this card if you go to the merchants and tell 456 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: them please accept Dinas Club card. This is why nobody 457 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: even comes to me with a Diners Club card. That's 458 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: when we said, okay, how do we do it. If 459 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: I have to build a proprietary platform which has got 460 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: an acceptance everywhere, it's going to cost a bottle lot 461 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: of money. So we said that's not doable. We said 462 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: we'll do something unthinkable. In those days. Diners, MasterCard, Visa, 463 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: Amics they were all seen to be competing networks. So 464 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: I said, we are not competing against stamics or we 465 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: said let's be real, so let's go and talk to 466 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: them and see if MasterCard or Visa can accept dinerslup card. 467 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: Where are they're accepted. It was a little bit of 468 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: a breakthrough for the industry. Had anyone ever done that before? No, 469 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: that was the first of its kind. So I went 470 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: and eventually signed a deal with master Card and overnight 471 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: Diners Club Card could be accepted wherever master Card could 472 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: be accepted globally. The single biggest pain point of anid's 473 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: club got taken care of. So with a wide acceptance, 474 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: then we hired away some of the best salesman from 475 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: my competitors. Then they started winning deals in a big way. 476 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: Before you know, year two were very profitable and year three, 477 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: it wasn't sustained profitability level, and that's when I was 478 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: moved back to the mothership, which is City Bank Core 479 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: credit Cards. You had a stellar career City and you 480 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: move the health insurance. Yes, as CMO of Humana. Why 481 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: that move? It was a very fortuitous situation. There was 482 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: a financial crisis and all the banks had to borrow 483 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: tark money from government, and a lot of marketing programs 484 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: god shut out. That was the time when fortuitously got 485 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: a call from one of the headhunters saying that there's 486 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: a role with a company called Humana in Louisville, Kentucky 487 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: as their chief Innovation and Marketing officer and chief executive 488 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: for the international business. I was very curious, and I've 489 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: always open to new environments and new industries. Way, so 490 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: I went and had a chat with the chairman of 491 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: the company, and I felt very inspired. Here is an 492 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,719 Speaker 1: opportunity for me to truly do something because you know, 493 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: in my personal circumstance, I have a son who is artistic. 494 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: I was struggling to get the right kind of health 495 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: care support for him in New York, which was all 496 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: like bizarre to be coming to the US for the 497 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 1: first time, because I haven't heard of the concept of 498 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: health insurance before I came to the U S. So 499 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: here when the opportunity came where I could join the 500 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: health insurance company, I said, I could join and hopefully 501 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: bring about some transformation. And I'm so glad I did 502 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: because I understood how broken the health industry was in 503 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: total end to end, and we did some very cool 504 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 1: things while I was at Humana. We did a lot 505 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: of innovation. We brought a lot of new concepts to 506 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: the table, and I moved from there to well Point. 507 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: In those days, it was called well Point. Now it's 508 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: called Anthem. And then suddenly master Card happened, and after 509 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: four years in healthcare industry, then I said, fine, I'll 510 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: come into master Card because the CEO of master Card 511 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: was my boss before at City Bank and we had 512 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: a fantastic relationship. Two thousand thirteen, this was two So 513 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: you're back in the credit card business. You're back in 514 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: then it's actual not a credit cards. Card is not 515 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: a credit card, but it is for the outside world 516 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: that brand. I know it from my card. That's my 517 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: consumer touch point. You came a CMO. You later added 518 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: the head communications officer as well, and you're running the 519 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: healthcare business is well, and you say it's not a 520 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: credit card company. The consumer knows it as a credit 521 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: card company. They know it as this piece of plastic 522 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: or now a number, what is it. We're a technology company, 523 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: We're not a credit cards company. That technology enables a 524 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: variety of transactions to take place. The transactions can be 525 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: a credit card transaction. The transaction can be a movement 526 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: of money from one bank to another bank. It can 527 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: be a movement of money from government to some entity 528 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: outside or an individual. It's any movement of money and data. 529 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: It is sick. Your safe and seamless fashion is what 530 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: our technology enables. So we're a technology company. But your 531 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: point is absolutely right when you say master Card, People 532 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 1: secredit card because they see the image of the plastic 533 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: in their mind, and that's something which we have been 534 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: trying to change in consumer's mind. Hence the dropping of 535 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: the name master Card from our logo, hence getting into 536 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: other businesses. We are actually a lifestyle brand. We happened 537 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: to be a technology company, but we are a lifestyle brand. 538 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: We will give you the lifestyle that you'd aspire exclusively 539 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: for you. It's the definition of priceless. We can get 540 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: these only because you have a master Card. You took 541 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: the name of the logo radical change for a company 542 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: that's been around like this, now you take this priceless 543 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: campaign and reimagined it another big step. Why did you 544 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: do that? When I joined master Card in the campaign 545 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: was still working very well. But the question I was 546 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: asking myself was this campaign was created in ninety nineties seven, 547 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: when there was no Internet, when there was no mobile, 548 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: when there was no social media. When the world has 549 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: changed so much, how can we still say that my 550 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: campaign is optimized for today and not for nine Probably 551 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: MasterCard is the only brand out there which has got 552 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: one single word, which is a very powerful word that 553 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: is uniquely associated with it, priceless, and priceless was known 554 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: in the context of advertising campaigns. We said, can it 555 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: be made a tangible reality for consumers? Can we infuse 556 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: pricelessness into all the four piece of marketing, not just 557 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: in advertising? That was one piece. The second thing is 558 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: priceless has got such a unique capability to create stories 559 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: that are worth telling and sharing. Consumers are not looking 560 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: forward to watching an ad or hearing an ad. It's 561 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: an intrusion to that experience no questions about it. So 562 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: consumers say they put ad blocks or they are going 563 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: to add free environment by paying dollars. In that kind 564 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: of situation, realize where the consumer's mind is, where the 565 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 1: heart is, and try to adapt your strategies. So if 566 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: consumers are not liking ads, but I still have a 567 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: responsibility to tell them the story of my brand, is 568 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: there anyway I can do it differently than just adds. 569 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: So I pivoted a lot of my money away from 570 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: classical advertising into experiencial marketing. We started identifying what are 571 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: the things people are passionate about ten areas we call 572 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: them passion points like sports, music, shopping, travel, philanthropy, sustainability, 573 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: and so on. In each one of these areas, we 574 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: try to create and curate experiences that money cannot buy, 575 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: but you can get all the big master card when 576 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: people are experiencing those at scale, we amplify those stories. 577 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: So we let people tell their stories and we amplify them. 578 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: That was a big bet that I had to take 579 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: in two thousand. There were a lot of people who 580 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: are very apprehensive whether they is going to work. Here 581 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: he goes again exactly, So fast forward now six years 582 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: our seven years almost nine MasterCards brand has been related 583 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: as the fastest growing brand during the year by inter Brand. 584 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: We were not even the top hundred at that time. 585 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: Now we are growing the fastest brand z We used 586 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: to beat about eighties seven in the list of top 587 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: hundred brands. Today we are at twelve and the United 588 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: States we are at number eight. If you look at 589 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: brands at value scores, we are growing three to four 590 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: times as fast as some of our competitors. So on 591 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: the brand front, felding exceptionally well. So we said these 592 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: strategies are working for us. That was a success, but 593 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: that was more the umbrella. MasterCards also a purpose driven company. 594 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: What exactly is that and what's so appealing about that? 595 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: For someone like you? When they look at MasterCard, they 596 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: found the foundation at the time when the company was 597 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: going to I p O two thousand seven ars so 598 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: and that foundation today I believe is the world's largest 599 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: corporate philanthropy with assets of more than thirty billion dollars. 600 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: The philosophy here has been that let us try and 601 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: see if societal good doing something good for the society 602 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: can be a core part of our business as opposed 603 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: to be a side show. Somewhere we launched something called 604 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: Priceless Causes the biggest problems in the world, one is cancer. 605 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: So we found an excellent partner in Stand Up to 606 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: Cancer Foundation, and we created campaign saying that if you 607 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: use your master card during these eight weeks in the 608 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: United States at any restaurant, we'll contribute a small portion 609 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: of that revenue into Stand Up to Cancer Foundation, who 610 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: in turn will then bring some of the best scientists 611 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: from around the world form in to what they call 612 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: as dream teams, who will work on a given problem 613 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: in a collaborative fashion and come up with solutions. The 614 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: business is also benefiting in the same breath, So the 615 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: business objective and the societal objective are nicely dovetailing in 616 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: our strategy. And that's what is really gratifying. Too good 617 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: and do good for your business. I want you to 618 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: take a couple of minutes here and b t jure 619 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: what power or authority does a c amount need to 620 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: be truly effective. Right now, the position of CMO is 621 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: under existential threat. Many companies have started eliminating the role 622 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: of cmos, primarily because I guess there is a lack 623 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: of apprecision of what marketing does and can do from 624 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: the CFOs and from the CEOs, and on the other hand, 625 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: from the cmos unable to justify the linkages between their 626 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: marketing actions and the business outcomes. That has been the 627 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,719 Speaker 1: bin of this whole situation. What is really needed is 628 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: the CEOs. If they are bringing in any CMO, they 629 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: should spend a little time to understand what is the 630 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: power of marketing, what can marketing to It could be 631 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: very eye opening because many of the CEOs, for example, 632 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: they think, oh, it's some organizing some events, or do 633 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: some pretty packaging and decks, or do some hospitality that 634 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: is not marketing at all. Many stretch of imagination. So 635 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: I think they should invest in themselves to learn about marketing. 636 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: Half of marketing is art and the other half of 637 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: his science the magic. Exactly right. The problem is many 638 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: folks are quick to poopoo the art set of marketing. 639 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: It's very difficult for a CMO to stand up and say, 640 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: or any market for that matter, to stand up and 641 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: so white is great. Now, if you're putting a picture 642 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: of Mona Lisa in front of CEO who does not 643 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: understand art, then say, yeah, maybe waited to make the smile. 644 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: Look this way, willing to make her look down, wady 645 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: to make her where I watch. It's very, very important 646 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: for the CEO to not either bilittle or dilute the 647 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: role of the CMO if he makes one negative comment 648 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: in a public kind of a situation, that gives a 649 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: lot of impetus to the rest of the ecosystem to 650 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: keep trashing marketing and before you know the effectiveness of 651 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: the entire function dies down. You should, as a CEO 652 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: never let that happen. You in your organization, offer finance 653 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: one oh one training for your marketing people. Where did 654 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: that idea come from? And what's the impack? Then part 655 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: of it is the genesis. How do you make sure 656 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: that people understand the value of marketing and for marketers 657 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: to understand the connection between marketing and the rest of 658 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: the business now today rightly so, CFOs and CEOs are 659 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: demanding what am I getting in return? The CMO need 660 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: to have a very clear answer that talks the language 661 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: of the CEO and the CFO. Not just give some fluffer. 662 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: My brand awareness will come down, my net promoters score 663 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: will go down. Nobody cares about it other than the 664 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: marketer himself for herself. They need to understand the linkages 665 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: and connect and convincingly talk about it, not just because 666 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: believe me or trust me, but they should be quantitative evidence. 667 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: Most of the marketers have come from the creative side 668 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: of the house. They're not quantitative. They don't understand numbers. 669 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: So what we said is in our case, we don't 670 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: want to fall into that traffic MasterCard. So every CMA, 671 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: every marketing person will go through a series of trainings, 672 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,919 Speaker 1: one of which, for example, is finance one on one, 673 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: next one is payments one on one. Then we do 674 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: digital marketing one on one. Digital marketing one is not 675 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: only open to just the marketers but also the other 676 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: people in the system, so they need to understand what 677 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: is marketing doing. So it's a part of the educating 678 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 1: the system as well. If you look at the demands 679 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: on a marketer today, marketer needs to understand numbers and data. 680 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: If some vendor comes and says, so, I've got a 681 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: fantastic solution, which is AI powered, do you have enough 682 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: knowledge about that space to ask the questions? So you 683 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: need to be data savvy. Then you need to understand technology. 684 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: Do you understand your stack? Do you know if you 685 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: have the right stack, are they need remuance is marketing 686 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: folks are more general managers who have got a deep 687 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: specialization in marketing as opposed to having marketing specialists who 688 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: are not good for anything else. So what we're trying 689 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: to do is to attract new talent which is more 690 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: general management oriented and within the company, cross train or 691 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: existing people across different areas, based on, of course, their 692 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: aptitude and their interest, trying to get them as equipped 693 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: for the future as possible. So lifestyle you travel how 694 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: many days a year? Two hundred plus? You're a vegan? Meditate? 695 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: I meditate? You love dogs? I love dogs? How do 696 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: those things help you survive two hundred days on the road? 697 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: Meditation is a big grounding experience. It centers you very nicely, 698 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: calms you down, puts things in perspective, gives you a 699 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: good balance so that I find it is absolutely invaluable. 700 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: I think an excited mind will think less creatively and 701 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: will think less intelligently. A calm mine is really very productive. 702 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: I used to be a vegetarian. I gave up dairy 703 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: and now I'm a complete hard person vegan for the 704 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: last almost two and a half years. My weight has 705 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: come down. I find myself a little bit more energetic. 706 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: The third one dogs For me. I have three dogs, 707 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: three big dogs, relation rich bags, and I absolutely love 708 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: them to death. They're so affectionate, they're swellowing. Being with them, 709 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: even for a few minutes is so therapeutic. When I 710 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: go home, that's when I experience I look forward to, 711 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: which just spending time with the dogs. You've done so much. 712 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: Let's get just a little bit of advice if you could. 713 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: What advice would you give to your twenty one year 714 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,479 Speaker 1: old self. There's so much more life than just work. 715 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: And I think for the longest part of my career, 716 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: I have been going straight twenty four hours, thirty six 717 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: hours sometimes and I think I'll tell myself now, that's 718 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: actually not a great thing. You need to have a 719 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,720 Speaker 1: balanced life. Let's go to advice for agencies. What advice 720 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,959 Speaker 1: would you give to an agency about the best way 721 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: to work with a strong CMO. As far as the 722 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: agencies are concerned today, I think they have got also 723 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: some level of existential threat with the consulting companies coming 724 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: in and a lot of insourcing happening, fragmentation and all 725 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: those good things they should be investing in building long 726 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: term relationships with their clients. With the cmos, they have 727 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: to bring something which will help the CMO and his 728 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 1: team succeed. At the end of the day, they have 729 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: to create magic, right but magic cannot be without costs, 730 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: so they have to really treat the relationship as in 731 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: a holistic relationship, not just you know, you pay us 732 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: the fees and we give you a good creative The 733 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: key thing is given that the cmos have so many 734 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: options now and with the AI also coming in, and 735 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: I've seen some acts created by AI which are shockingly 736 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: good looking. So in that kind of a situation, I 737 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: think agencies have to reinvent themselves along these lines. So 738 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: as you wrap up, we always give a shout out 739 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: to the best in analytics and the best in creative. 740 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: Who would you put on the pedestal for the analytical 741 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: side of marketing? I would probably say a combination of 742 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: Google or Amazon. About creative, I would not put anyone 743 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: singularly on the pedestal as well as creative is concern. Honestly, Roger, 744 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: you are an inspiration to so many You mentor a 745 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: lot of people. You have an amazing story. Thanks for 746 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: sharing it with us today. Thank you so much. Pob 747 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely pleasure being here and thank you for having me here. 748 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: Here are a few things I picked up in my 749 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: conversation with Roger. One, look ahead. Even though Mastercard's Priceless 750 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: campaign was working well, Roger saw the need to evolve 751 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: it for changing media environment. Two. To be a good marketer, 752 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: study sales. When you understand what it takes to sell 753 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: a product on the ground, you'll be better equipped to 754 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: create smart campaigns. Three, get buy in from everyone on 755 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: your team and in your company. As Roger says, even 756 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: the brightest ideas can fail if they're not emotionally embraced. 757 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I'm Bob Pittman. That's it for today's episode. 758 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a 759 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. This show is hosted by 760 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and 761 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: wrangling our wonderful talent, Just no small feat Nikki Eatore 762 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,479 Speaker 1: for pulling research, Bill Plax and Michael Asar for their recording, health, 763 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 1: our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course gave Al Raoul, 764 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: Eric Angel, Noel Mango, and everyone who helped bring this 765 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: show to your ears. Until next time,