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Speaker 1: Hey, we're back with Evan Drelich, who writes for The Athletic.

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Speaker 1: A lot of business, some CBA talk, what the commissioner says.

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Speaker 2: Et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Right, lots to get to here with Evan. Evan, good

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Speaker 1: to see you, and we want to start with Rob

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Speaker 1: Manfred speaking to the media. There's a number of topics

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Speaker 1: to cover. The one that I think stood out the

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Speaker 1: most for this series was how he gave a little

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Speaker 1: shout out to Vancouver as he was asked about expansion.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have the Montreal Expost big doc that

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Speaker 1: came out this week too. That was interesting, but he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: don't don't count out the number three market in Vancouver.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to get your thoughts on how realistic

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Speaker 1: that is or if that's just leverage to push the

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Speaker 1: West Coast team's potential ones up to pay more.

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Speaker 3: Look, if I had, if I had to guess right now,

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Speaker 3: I think it's probably a kind of a nice thing

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Speaker 3: to say when you're standing in Canada where a World

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Speaker 3: Series is being hosted for the first time in what

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Speaker 3: thirty two years, we haven't had previously a lot to

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Speaker 3: talk about a Canadian city being one of those two sites.

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Speaker 3: For an expansion team. I guess it's not impossible, But

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Speaker 3: if you're Rob Manver, there's no downside to that comment.

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Speaker 3: You can, you know, get a little bit more leverage,

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Speaker 3: maybe with the Nashville or Portland or Salt Lake City.

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Speaker 3: I think if if it were realistic, Vancouver having a

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Speaker 3: minor league team already probably makes the most sense. But

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Speaker 3: I gotta admit something here. I'm a New Yorker, didn't

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Speaker 3: grow up that far from Canada. I haven't spent that

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Speaker 3: much time in Canada to runt of the lovely city.

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Speaker 3: I don't know enough about the different cities up there.

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Speaker 3: And even it was actually funny when Rob was doing

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Speaker 3: the press conference on the field. When he was answering

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Speaker 3: I think a follow up question about what cities he

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Speaker 3: was interested in. He turned to shy David, who's you know,

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Speaker 3: it covers his blue jats for a very long time,

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Speaker 3: does a great job. It's like, you're from Canada, you

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Speaker 3: would know better than me, and I think that's the reality.

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Speaker 3: I can't tell you which market would be better, but

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Speaker 3: I don't see it as the likeliest outcome that Major

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Speaker 3: League Baseball ends up with a second team in Canada.

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Speaker 4: Again, I mean in Montreal, cant aver.

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Speaker 5: I've been to Vancouver.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty, but that they think Seattle has travel problems,

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Speaker 4: go to Vancouver, that's even farther away from everything else.

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Speaker 4: So I just I don't see it. I think it

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Speaker 4: was a cute little piece that Rob said, Oh where

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Speaker 4: are we? What's that's why he's like, hey, shy, what

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Speaker 4: what country are we in right here? Let's oh, we're

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Speaker 4: in Canada. Let's throw another Canadian out there, because Montreal

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Speaker 4: obviously would be the next one because it's close on

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Speaker 4: the East coast.

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Speaker 5: But I don't think it's happened.

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Speaker 4: I just thought it was him, you know, trying to

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Speaker 4: add fuel to the fire here of oh, let's throw

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Speaker 4: another name out there, so Salt Lake and Portland have

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Speaker 4: to up the annie. But it's not going to happen.

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Speaker 4: Portland's a wonderful place. I played there in Triple A,

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Speaker 4: I played there on the road. It was a wonderful

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Speaker 4: place to visit for a couple of days. But I

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Speaker 4: can't see it being a next viable So I agree

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Speaker 4: with you having.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, every World Series, whatever city we're in, he gives

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Speaker 3: a compliment to the area, to the owners, and oftentimes

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Speaker 3: it's not that it's not true, but it's just it's

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Speaker 3: hard to lean too much into that idea right now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, next up on the docket. In your article, twelve

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Speaker 1: team postseason, sounds like Manfred likes that. I personally like

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Speaker 1: that and hope that they don't add Now, did you

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Speaker 1: get the inclination that he liked twelve even when they

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Speaker 1: add two and it's thirty two teams in the league.

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Speaker 3: That's a good question that was not asked. My guess

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Speaker 3: is at that point you would probably do something. But

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Speaker 3: that is again so many years away. I mean, he

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Speaker 3: keeps talking, he being man for it about knowing which

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Speaker 3: two teams he wants to add before he leaves, which

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Speaker 3: as of now would be in twenty twenty nine. That

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean the two teams will started playing, right, So

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Speaker 3: you're so far away from that. It's probably a future CBA,

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Speaker 3: not the one they're going to negotiate next year. That said,

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Speaker 3: while you're still at thirty teams, like what you want

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Speaker 3: to let in basically half the league, I mean, you could,

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Speaker 3: but twelve is already a lot of teams, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's I took it as a good sign that

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Speaker 3: they weren't thinking about adding more at the moment, or

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Speaker 3: at least they're not publicly saying that there's always more

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Speaker 3: money and more playoffs games. But at a certain point

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Speaker 3: you kind of dilute your own postseason product. And I

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Speaker 3: think they know that, and you can't go from you know,

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Speaker 3: it was only a few years ago you went to ten, right,

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Speaker 3: I think it got a stay put. And then if

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Speaker 3: you want to go to talk about it during expansion.

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Speaker 5: Okay, oh but they want they want the salary cap.

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Speaker 5: Other leagues have nineteen teams that make it and ever

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Speaker 5: so maybe they do want to go that way. But

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Speaker 5: what you talked about was expanding. Let's take care of

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Speaker 5: Sacramento first. Rob had some comments about how players that

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Speaker 5: he talked to were like, Hey, it wasn't so.

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Speaker 3: Bad, right, Yeah, we had the early season. I mean

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Speaker 3: it might have been opening day when Severino was popping

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Speaker 3: off about Sacramento not being up to park. Anybody who

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Speaker 3: walks in that ballpark is Manford himself acknowledged, realizes this

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Speaker 3: is a minor league ballparks. It is not what you want.

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Speaker 3: A pull. Writers will sometimes often cite to each other

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Speaker 3: quoting Joe Gilardi used to say, that a lot. I

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Speaker 3: think it's not what you want, but they what are

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Speaker 3: they gonna do? They got nowhere else to go, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, without rehashing everything that happened in Oakland. This

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Speaker 3: Sacramento situation, I think, frankly sucks. I think people acknowledge

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Speaker 3: that it's nice for the city of Sacramento, but it

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Speaker 3: is not what anybody would have wanted. And you just

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Speaker 3: got to deal with it until the Vegas project gets done,

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Speaker 3: hopefully as they expect it will. But that is the

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Speaker 3: thing that Manford had said for years was, you know,

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Speaker 3: we got to deal with the A's situation, gotta deal

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Speaker 3: with the Ray situation, their stadium deals before we talk

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Speaker 3: about expansion. With the Ray's ownership change, it looks like

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Speaker 3: it looks like they'll they'll have the money and we'll

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Speaker 3: put together a stadium project in that Tampa area. So

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Speaker 3: whether that's Tampa, it South Saint Pete, somewhere, they are

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Speaker 3: as opposed to going elsewhere in Florida. And then if

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Speaker 3: John Fisher's project in Vegas works on time, yeah, you

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Speaker 3: could have your two stadiums dealt with by the time

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Speaker 3: you would you would try to move for expansion. You know,

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Speaker 3: whether that's twenty eight, twenty nine, whatever. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: and it's it's also silly in the context of like

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Speaker 3: the Marlins. The Marlins, you have teams that are doing

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Speaker 3: so poorly and struggling in this environment to just, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of talk about the cash grab of expanding without

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Speaker 3: looking at the broader contact. There's a lot that goes

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Speaker 3: into it, Right, you'd rather have all your current franchises

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Speaker 3: in good, comfortable situations before you go and throw two

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Speaker 3: more in the mix.

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Speaker 4: Evan, For first of all, you know, I love this.

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Speaker 4: Oh everyone said it wasn't that bad. Every player I

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Speaker 4: talked to, every coach I talked to. Now I didn't

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Speaker 4: talk to a lot of the A's players. They said

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Speaker 4: it sucked. Okay, every every opposing team that went there

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Speaker 4: said it absolutely sucks. So who is he talking to?

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Speaker 4: I want to know what players he is he talking

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Speaker 4: to the A's guys? Of course, the A's are going

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Speaker 4: to say that because they're happy to be there, they're

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Speaker 4: they're in the big leagues, or a bunch of young guys.

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Speaker 4: Sev Reno was never happy with Sacramento, right, I mean,

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Speaker 4: how many players came out like So, who is Rob

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Speaker 4: talking to is this again, Is this just Rob saying

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Speaker 4: things so like it makes the guy who owns the

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Speaker 4: team in Sacramento happy. So hey, maybe down the road

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Speaker 4: we can talk to him about if Vegas doesn't work,

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Speaker 4: we can try to go there again.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he is a politician. He does have to

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Speaker 3: think about all those types of things. I don't know

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Speaker 3: who he's talking to. I mean, look, could somebody have

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Speaker 3: said something along the lines of, hey, you know they try.

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Speaker 3: That could tell they tried, and you know some things

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Speaker 3: are good and other things. A bet somebody, not everybody

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Speaker 3: would have to necessarily throw their arms up and say, God,

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Speaker 3: this is awful. But it is. And I actually give

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Speaker 3: Manford credit. He in the comment that he made to

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Speaker 3: the to the little gaggle of reporters on the field,

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Speaker 3: said it is a minor league stadium, which I actually

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Speaker 3: I can't remember if he'd made it as direct and

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Speaker 3: acknowledgment of that in the past. But that's what it is,

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Speaker 3: and it's not where Major league Baseball should be played.

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Speaker 3: You had two teams in minor league stadums just hear

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Speaker 3: the Rays. Obviously we're a different situation, but both of

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Speaker 3: them ended up with attendance around seven hundred and fifty thousand.

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Speaker 3: It's just it is a strange contrast to have those

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Speaker 3: teams and the situations they're in and also be talking about, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna we're gonna build a major league put a

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Speaker 3: major league team in Vancouver. You know, it's it's all

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Speaker 3: ways off. But they need the Sacramento chapter behind them

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Speaker 3: as quick as possible.

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Speaker 1: The old card experience was a slow burned, long grind. Right,

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Speaker 1: find the box, find the pack you want, open the pack.

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Speaker 1: Most of the cards, nah, right, you got one that's

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Speaker 1: worth something, Now send it in for grading. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the list goes on and you want to sell it. Now,

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Speaker 1: you got to put it up. Then you got to

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Speaker 1: ship it out. There's one solution for that, and it's.

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Speaker 6: Called Arena Club and it's just on a click of

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Speaker 6: a dime. You get on your computer, you type in

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Speaker 6: get the Arena Club app. Go on there, type in,

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Speaker 6: put some money in, and type in exactly what kind

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Speaker 6: of cards you want and while lah, It's a great experience,

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Speaker 6: and I think that's what people miss nowadays, the experience,

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Speaker 6: the excitement of getting a new card. You never know

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Speaker 6: what you're going to get, an autograph card, anything, you

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Speaker 6: could think of really cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: You can get twenty percent off your first slab pack

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Speaker 1: or card purchase at arenaclub dot com slash foul. See

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Speaker 1: what gets Todd Father so ex saying when he gets

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Speaker 1: that digital slab pack, It's like butter baby Potter.

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Speaker 5: What's going to get over the hurdle of allowing Major

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Speaker 5: League Baseball players to play in the Olympics? Because it

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Speaker 5: says he's close, but you know the whole like, well,

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Speaker 5: you know it's dangerous for players. Can he just flat

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Speaker 5: out say, well, we own the WBC, So after WBC

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Speaker 5: is over next year, then I'll give my answer for

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Speaker 5: the Olympics.

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Speaker 3: I don't even look at it.

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Speaker 1: I think they're in.

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Speaker 3: I think they believe in the value of the Olympics

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Speaker 3: as something that can boost the value of the WBC.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they look at it necessarily competitively. There

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Speaker 3: are what what's the hold up? Or whatever your exact

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Speaker 3: question was. Ninety nine percent of the time in my

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Speaker 3: line of work, the answer is money. It's always money.

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Speaker 3: It's insurance. It's making sure that the very you know,

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Speaker 3: if you're going to have this long break is every

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Speaker 3: other player in the majors. What are they doing, Are

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Speaker 3: they being paid? You know, it's you got to work

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Speaker 3: out all these details of what that extended All Star break,

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Speaker 3: presuming they end up doing both the Olympics and the

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Speaker 3: All Star Game in a single break, which is unless

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Speaker 3: something's changed. That is what they're trying to do, and

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Speaker 3: there is a reality that you're going to stretch the

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Speaker 3: schedule anyway to do that. And so one of the

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Speaker 3: things that around the All Star Game this year I

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Speaker 3: reported on was their conversations with LA twenty eight, the

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Speaker 3: organizing body, about making sure there's basically as little time

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Speaker 3: as pos possible between that All Star Game and the

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Speaker 3: start of the Olympics. Because the schedule that came out

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Speaker 3: starts July fifteenth, would be the first baseball game at

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Speaker 3: the Olympics. The All Star Game, if it's a normal year,

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Speaker 3: would probably be July eleventh. It's always a Tuesday, right,

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Speaker 3: so that's four days in between. You don't need four

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Speaker 3: days in between, you need a day of travel. And

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Speaker 3: the opening ceremony for the Olympics is the fourteenth, So really,

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Speaker 3: if you start the thing a day or two earlier,

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Speaker 3: that probably makes it as efficient as possible. But Eric,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's always money. There's just money to be

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Speaker 3: worked out when you have a project like this, and

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Speaker 3: owners worried about their investments, and there's a long list

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Speaker 3: of issues they got to figure out.

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Speaker 1: Having back to the World Series for a moment, did

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Speaker 1: we Oh sorry, Aj, where you at?

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Speaker 5: No, It's fine.

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Speaker 4: I was just gonna I was gonna say, first of all, Devin,

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Speaker 4: I guess you just don't believe in practicing as a team.

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Speaker 5: You're gonna end.

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Speaker 4: That first half and then you're just gonna throws from

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Speaker 4: all over the world together without at least getting together.

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Speaker 5: That'd be tight.

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Speaker 4: So you might need at least a couple of days

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Speaker 4: here to at least throwing a little bit of practice.

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Speaker 4: I think CRAFTSLD agree with me. But my question is

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Speaker 4: is like we're every time you hear Manford talk, grow

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Speaker 4: the game. Grow the game, Grow the game, Grow the game.

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Speaker 4: Grow you know, grow the game. Okay, look at the

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Speaker 4: numbers for baseball where we're at. The ratings are through

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Speaker 4: the roof for the World Series. The ratings for the

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Speaker 4: DS's and the CS's and everything are for the room.

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Speaker 4: Attendance is up, viewership is up, every revenue is up.

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Speaker 4: And then all we keep hearing is salary cap, salary cap,

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Speaker 4: salary cap. Why can't the two sides just sit down

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Speaker 4: and get together and figure this out so that I

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Speaker 4: can stop answering questions from every person I know about

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Speaker 4: why there's going to be a labor stoppage in twenty seven, Like,

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Speaker 4: does anybody ever ask Rob like, if everything is going

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Speaker 4: so well, why do we have to have a salary cap?

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Speaker 5: Has anyone asked him that question?

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's been put exactly in those words,

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Speaker 3: but it certainly will be coming up. He ducked labor.

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Speaker 3: I think that was probably smart. He's indulged those questions

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Speaker 3: more recently. You know, if you go back to even

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Speaker 3: spring training, he answers when people ask about, you know,

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Speaker 3: revenue disparity and the Dodgers, and he kind of pushed

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Speaker 3: it aside for the moment, which I think was a

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Speaker 3: good idea. I think the answer is, you have owners

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Speaker 3: who want this to happen, who have always wanted this

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Speaker 3: to happen, and he has to demonstrate a good faith

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Speaker 3: effort to them to try to get it. I think

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Speaker 3: it'd be virtually impossible for him to go to those

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Speaker 3: owners and say I'm not even gonna try this. I

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Speaker 3: think that's too bad because one of the things that's

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Speaker 3: not really talked about or looked at as much as

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Speaker 3: is kind of the opportunity cost of planning for this.

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Speaker 3: Everybody has to plan for this. Major League Baseball top

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Speaker 3: down has to consider, Okay, if we're in a lockout,

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Speaker 3: what are we gonna do?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 3: And that draws away attention in any division, you know, marketing, sponsorship, whatever.

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Speaker 3: And I think at the end of the day, there's

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Speaker 3: too much money involved in this sport. It is not

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Speaker 3: a rational decision to miss any real number of games.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you want to miss a couple games, fine,

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Speaker 3: but in an industry that will probably be about thirteen

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Speaker 3: billion combined going into twenty seven, it does not make sense.

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Speaker 3: I don't think for the owners to hold out, and

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Speaker 3: assuming the players are steadfast, we're not gonna have a cap.

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Speaker 1: But I think Rob.

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Speaker 3: Still knows he has to try. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: Rob is Manfred is a lot of things. He's not dumb.

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Speaker 3: He certainly understands. I would believe. I haven't asked him this,

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Speaker 3: but I believe the momentum that the sport has, and

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Speaker 3: that a workstoppage would be damaging there's no way he

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Speaker 3: doesn't realize that, which is why I think when push

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Speaker 3: comes to shove, the owners will propose a cap. I

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Speaker 3: am very little confidence at this moment that anybody's gonna

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Speaker 3: want to really drag this out for months where you're

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Speaker 3: in a real workstop where people can turn away from baseball.

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Speaker 3: This is not nineteen nineteen ninety four, ninety five. It

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Speaker 3: is much easier to find other entertainment options. It's a

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Speaker 3: bad idea to shut baseball down when things are going well,

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Speaker 3: and it's so obvious to us as observers, then I

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Speaker 3: think it must also be obvious to others in baseball

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Speaker 3: as well. That doesn't mean they won't try to get

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Speaker 3: what they want, but you can try to get what

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Speaker 3: you want and also end up playing baseball.

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Speaker 1: One other wrinkle that I think is worth bringing up now. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have a lot of time to talk about

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Speaker 1: this over the course of the next whatever it is

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Speaker 1: fifteen months until there is actually at least a temporary lockout.

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Speaker 1: It'll definitely happen, just for how long does it dip

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Speaker 1: into games, et cetera. Right the one part that I

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Speaker 1: think is relevant right now, Evan is related to what

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Speaker 1: AJ is saying. It's not just ratings here, it's ratings

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Speaker 1: in Canada, it's ratings in Japan, right, and those are

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Speaker 1: all very sellable assets. Something does happen in the US

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Speaker 1: after or what is it? The twenty twenty going.

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Speaker 3: To seventy nine, it's going to twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: It's going into twenty nine. The TV deals, I thought

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Speaker 1: it's sooner.

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Speaker 3: They run through twenty eight.

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Speaker 1: They run through twenty eight, Okay, so if we have

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Speaker 1: an issue, it would be going into twenty seven, so

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Speaker 1: a year before, and that's usually when you're having those

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Speaker 1: conversations about TV deals. Some people might not know. So

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Speaker 1: the holy grail nowadays is when you can package up

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Speaker 1: all your rights and then work on getting a bidding

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Speaker 1: process going. I think that alone, being such a huge

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Speaker 1: part of any league's revenue would probably cause all parties

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Speaker 1: to be like.

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Speaker 2: We hate each other, we have a lot of differences,

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Speaker 2: but it's not good timing, So let's just feel a

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Speaker 2: little bit uncomfortable and roll with the status quo for

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Speaker 2: another deal.

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Speaker 3: I think that's right. I mean, look in a worst

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Speaker 3: case scenario, because they are a year apart, you know

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Speaker 3: you could you could miss twenty seven. I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: they're going to you and you could still end up,

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Speaker 3: you know, negotiating. All right, Baseball's back. We got you know,

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Speaker 3: we got the CBA that we wanted and now we

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Speaker 3: get our national TV deals. But no, there's no way

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Speaker 3: it is what you the image you want to plant

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Speaker 3: in the heads, in the minds of the executives at

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Speaker 3: Fox and Amazon and NBC and go down the list

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Speaker 3: of the potential streaming bidders that MLB wants to court,

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Speaker 3: and MLB a lot of the time Rob Manford a

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Speaker 3: lot of time I think looks to what the NBA

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Speaker 3: is doing, and he's been he's been open about this

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Speaker 3: with with specifically television. Is that MLB wants to replicate

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Speaker 3: what the NBA just did. The NBA got seventy seven

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Speaker 3: billion dollars in deals. How much would a lockout or

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Speaker 3: workstoppage that actually drags into the season impact that amount

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Speaker 3: of money is a question. I think they'll debate and consider,

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Speaker 3: and they need to again all these factors. You know,

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Speaker 3: the owners, if you're if you're a major leaue baseball owner,

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Speaker 3: they're looking at the NBA and going those franchise values

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Speaker 3: are highed look at the NFL and going those franchise

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Speaker 3: values are higher, and then they look at other arguments

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Speaker 3: around competitive balans, and that's where it gets a little

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Speaker 3: bit trickier as in terms of is it reality right?

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Speaker 3: And I think I told you guys before, made the

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Speaker 3: point before that you know, you go to a salary

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Speaker 3: cap unless the range of salaries is so close together.

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Speaker 3: The Dodgers are still going to be the Dodgers. The

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Speaker 3: Pirates are still going to be the Pirates. And MLB

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Speaker 3: keeps hanging its hat on what it's calling a perception issue.

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Speaker 3: Is percept this perception that fans have in smaller markets

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Speaker 3: that the team can't compete. Okay, but is the reality

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Speaker 3: of the fix that it is fixed or are you

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Speaker 3: just giving people something that they perceive to fix a

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Speaker 3: problem but does not actually fix the problem. And so yeah,

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Speaker 3: as Manford himselves said on the field at Rogers Center,

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Speaker 3: gonna have a lot of time to talk about labor.

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Speaker 3: And I think largely this is what I will be

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Speaker 3: paid to do for the next year is sort through

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Speaker 3: this impending mess which will produce an off season lockout.

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Speaker 3: And the question is, like last time, are they going

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Speaker 3: to miss games?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And my last point here. This happened like twenty

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Speaker 1: something years ago, late nineties. But when they decided on

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Speaker 1: the luxury tax, great, that's a soft cap. The fact

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Speaker 1: that they didn't add a soft floor, I think screwed

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Speaker 1: over the game and caused all of these owners on

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Speaker 1: the one side, like the Nuttings of the world, to

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Speaker 1: be bad actors. There's no accountability on the other side

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Speaker 1: in my mind, like we have we have a soft cap,

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Speaker 1: and that does and if you believe in a hard cap,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, but we don't have a soft floor for

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Speaker 1: a long time, so we never saw what that looks like.

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Speaker 1: I know that they're not going to give in on that.

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Speaker 1: I understand that part, but just throwing that out there,

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Speaker 1: I do think we scold the game up a little

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Speaker 1: bit by not doing that.

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Speaker 3: If you want a floor through the players, the owners

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Speaker 3: will never grant it unless they get a cap. And

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Speaker 3: they've always gone hand in hand. It's funny like every

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Speaker 3: time I write a story about a salary cap, people

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Speaker 3: are like, what about a floor? And I think, every

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Speaker 3: time I write it, I got to say, these two

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Speaker 3: go together.

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Speaker 1: But we don't have a soft floor and we have

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Speaker 1: a soft cap. That's My only thing that I do

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Speaker 1: think is misbalanced right now and.

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Speaker 3: Here and here's I think the irony of this whole situation.

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Speaker 3: Let's say the owners don't get a cap, right, if

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Speaker 3: I were a betting man, unless unless all the players

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Speaker 3: have suddenly changed their minds, and aj and and Crabs

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Speaker 3: would know it would take a huge amount of miss

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Speaker 3: games to get to a cap. But the owners, if

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Speaker 3: they don't want to miss those games, I bet you

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Speaker 3: will come away with something that makes them happier in

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Speaker 3: a better economic position than they were in before. And

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Speaker 3: that's over time. It's kind of a vice that closes,

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Speaker 3: and you know we want a cap, Well, we're not

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Speaker 3: going to eat a cap. We'll give you the Steve

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Speaker 3: Coen tax. And then it just it grows and it

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Speaker 3: grows and it grows, and long term, that's something the

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Speaker 3: players have to always tend with, is you know, you're

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Speaker 3: you're fighting off a cap, but what else are you

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Speaker 3: giving up to fight off that cap?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Having good stuff obviously not the last time we will

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Speaker 1: talk about this, whether people like it or not. Thank

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Speaker 1: you that good to see it, man.

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Speaker 3: I'll ask about that practice. That's a good that's a

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Speaker 3: good question. Ajic I'll ask about that practice, all right,

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Speaker 3: See you guys, guys, see it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Evan,