1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to blow your mind. My name 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for an older episode 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: of the show. This one originally published on March tenth, 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: and it's about the biology of the Hobbit. This was 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: part of your Hobbit obsession, wasn't. Yeah, I think it 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: can't yet. Stemmed from reading the Hobbit to my son. 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: Uh got me thinking a lot about Middle Earth again. 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: And hey, I was an excuse to dive into some 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: some really interesting papers that had come out in the 11 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: past where people take uh in this case, the the 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: diet of the Hobbit, uh, the physical activity of the Hobbit, 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: and uh and and and break it down and see 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: exactly how they're functioning on a physiological level. Well, let's 15 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: jump into the volcano. You asked me to find the 16 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: man for your expedition, and I chose Mr Baggins. Just 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: let anyone say I chose the wrong man or the 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: wrong house, and you can stop at thirteen and have 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: all the bad luck you like, or go back to 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: digging cold. He scowled so angrily and glowing that the 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: Dwarf huddled back in his chair, and when Bilbo tried 22 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: to open his mouth to ask a question, he turned 23 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: and frowned at him and stuck out his bushy eyebrows 24 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: until Bilbo shut his mouth tight and snap. That's right, 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: let's have no more argument. I have chosen Mr Baggins, 26 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: and that ought to be enough for all of you. 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: If I say he is a burglar, a burglar he 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: is or will be when the time comes. There's a 29 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: lot more to him than you guess, and a deal 30 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: more than he has any idea of himself. You may 31 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: possibly all live to thank me. Yet. Welcome to Stuff 32 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: are you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind? My 34 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and I 35 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: guess it's obvious that we're back in Hobbit territory today. 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: That's right. You know. We did an episode, I guess 37 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: a few months back or several months back, I'm not 38 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: sure which, where we talked about the One Ring. We 39 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: contemplated the metallurgy of the rings of power in the 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings. And in this episode we're going 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: to be returning to Middle Earth. We're going to look 42 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: at everyone's favorite hole dwelling pipe, smoking six meal a day, 43 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: eating humanoids, the Hobbit. So this year I was going 44 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: back and reading Lord of the Rings and I was 45 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: about halfway through Fellowship of the Ring, and the question 46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: entered my mind. And that question is are the Hobbits 47 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: too cute? Are their lives just too quaint and too 48 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: sweet for this story? And I thought about it for 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: a minute. I was like, you know, I get a 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: little bit board maybe in some of the early chapters 51 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: of Fellowship where it's going on and on about the 52 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: the quaintness of the Hobbit existence. But then I realized, no, 53 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: I think it really does work. It. Uh, it's important 54 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: for the story because pause it makes you feel the 55 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: adventure and the pain of the adventure all the more 56 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: when you get a full feeling for how cozy and 57 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: unadventurous their their prequest lives were. Yeah, it's in a 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: fantastic world that just gets more and more fantastic and 59 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: dark and magical the further out you go from the Shire, 60 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: the realm of the Middle Earth that is home to 61 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: the Hobbits. You know, it makes sense to start with 62 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: something that is quaint, that is normal, that is almost 63 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: you know, painfully British and cozy and uh uh and 64 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: not so much cute, I guess, at least not in 65 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: the original intent. I know, I know, I've read that 66 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: Tolkien did not like the idea of illustrations that made 67 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: the Hobbits look too much like children, because they should 68 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: all look like like small little like middle aged or 69 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: old men, I imagine. But yeah, you need you need 70 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: somebody ordinary to go on these adventures, to be challenged 71 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: by these adventures, right, you feel the rain and the 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: hardness of the stones under their feet, and the threat 73 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: of the Goblin's blade so much more when you've when 74 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: you've seen the world of Tea by the Fire. Yeah. 75 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: And then there's certainly the the species of Middle Earth 76 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: that we can relate to the most. They're they're really 77 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: they're even more human than the humans or the men 78 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: as Token calls them, uh, that we encounter in the story. 79 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: So that's really the main storytelling reason that the Hobbits 80 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: are central to the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. 81 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: But of course there's more to this as well, more 82 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: to unwrap, and and that's why we chose that particular 83 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: passage from The Hobbit to read at the beginning, because 84 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: in this particular section, basically Gandalf, the gray globetrotting wizard 85 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: that he is, is injecting himself into dwarf and politics 86 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: essentially to rid the world of the last evil dragon 87 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: so that it can't aid the coming war with Saaron. Uh. 88 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's uh, you know, it's it's in a way, 89 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: it's kind of like shady politics, I guess, but it's 90 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: it serves yea, yeah, but it's it's it serves a 91 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: greater good. And and but Gandalf is getting a bit 92 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 1: frustrated because he's he's helping the dwarves out. He's enabling 93 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: this mission uh to to retake their mountain from smog. 94 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: And they don't want to have thirteen dwarves go on 95 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: a trip. That's unlucky. They need another person. And Gandalf says, 96 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: here you go, here is a Hobbit, here's Bilbo. He's 97 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: the fellow you need. He's a burglar. You're gonna need 98 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: a burglar. And of course the whole time Bilbo is like, 99 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: I can't go on an adventure. I can't do that. 100 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 1: I don't have any of these skills, and the dwarves 101 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: are agreeing with them, and they're saying, Oh, he's useless, 102 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: let's not take him. Don't you have something else, Let's 103 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: just eat all his food and move on, right, So 104 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: you know it's you. It's it's easy to understand the 105 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: criticism because Bilbo does seem rather useless, and he remains 106 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: rather useless feeling for a large portion of the book. Uh. 107 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: So it raises the question is there something about the Hobbit? 108 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: Is there something about this species that that that is 109 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: really special? Is their hobbit exceptionalism that might be exploited? 110 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: And that is ultimately what Gandolf is leaning on, that 111 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: there's something special about the Hobbits that will help enable, 112 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: you know, first of all, victory in this mission to 113 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: retake the Lonely Mountain and then ultimately in the quest 114 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: of the Ring that we encounter in the Lord of 115 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: the Rings. You know, despite how over the course of 116 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: the Lord of the Rings we see several different Hobbits 117 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: in different ways, at different times, being seduced by the 118 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: power of the Ring, it does seem like Hobbits, more 119 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: than other creatures, are somewhat resistant to it, like they 120 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: are somehow able to put up more of a fight, 121 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: to be less enticed by the promises of power and 122 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: glory that the Ring entails. Yeah, perhaps leaning into their 123 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: inherent quaintness, right, I mean, ultimately, all any hobbit wants 124 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: is a nice hobbit hole to live in and a 125 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: mug of ale and you know, some some mushrooms and 126 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: eggs and bacon for for one of their many meals. 127 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,119 Speaker 1: I mean almost any time a man, a human gets 128 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: his hands on the ring, he's like, oh, rate, yes, 129 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: So we'll slit down for a second here, because there 130 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: may be some people out there. I find it hard 131 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: to believe, but there may be some people who don't 132 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: know what a hobbit is. Well, just to drive it 133 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: home here, the Lord of the Rings the Hobbit. These 134 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: books are our fantasy novels, full of elves and goblins, dragons, 135 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: uh you know, demonic ball rogs, h half living ring race, 136 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: and various demigods and wizards. But then we also have 137 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: the quaint hobbits, and typically they fit the following profile. 138 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: They are quote a little people about half our height. 139 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: They walk around barefooted and boast a generous helping of 140 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: hair atop each foot. I was to understand they had 141 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: hair underneath their feet. Is that not right? I think 142 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: you're right as well. We just the illustrations rarely show 143 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: that that the bottom of the foot hair. I think 144 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: that was my understanding is that they're they're very um. 145 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: They're actually good as burglars because they're very light of 146 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: step and their footfalls are quiet cushioned by this hair. 147 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: They're also known for their hobbit holes. These are fashionable 148 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: underground homes, but they don't always reside in these, despite 149 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: their their overall subterranean tendencies and a likely history of 150 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: borrow habitation. And uh oh. A big one, of course 151 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: is their hunger. They're their appetite. They require some six 152 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: meals a day or what about second breakfast. And then 153 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: they're also at least very good at hiding, which can 154 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: be extrapolated into a skill of burglary. And I guess 155 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: that's that's one argument for what Gandolf is saying, Like, 156 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: here is a species it's naturally good at hiding. So 157 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: given time, by the time you get to the lonely Mountain, 158 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: Bilbo will either be dead or very good at adventuring, 159 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: and they'll extend a stealthy way he will have leveled 160 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: up appropriately. But another another way to look at it 161 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: is to look at the specific biological adaptations of a 162 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: hypothetical hobbit species. And so that's what we're going to 163 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: largely focus on in this episode. And the beautiful thing 164 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: is that we don't have to just make all of 165 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: this up on our own. They're a handful of papers 166 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: that we've been able to refer to, generally of the 167 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: tongue in cheek variety. So we're not talking like hard, 168 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: serious scientific or medical contemplation, but still do get quantitative 169 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: about it. You get quantitative and they get into the 170 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: science of like, all right, let's talk about hobbits. Let's 171 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: talk about how much they eat? Would they be healthy? 172 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: Would they be actually capable of walking across the continent 173 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: with a bunch of adventurers? Uh, you know what, are they? Truly? 174 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: This this solid investment that Gandalf the Gray seas, that's 175 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: a mighty good question. I mean, not to cast any 176 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: doubt on Gandalf the Gray's um, you know mindset here, 177 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, clearly great wizard. We'd love to have him 178 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: on the show sometime for an interview, but uh, to 179 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: tune into our new podcast series, Gandalf Mindset. It's where 180 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: you learn wizard mindset. Mindset. There's probably a book about that. 181 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 1: Don't let them Steal your staff. Six Easy Steps to 182 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: Wizard Dominance. I would not be has to find out 183 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: that a book like that existed. All right, well, let's 184 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 1: start with the with the obvious, the dietary constraints of 185 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: the Hobbit. Now, this is going to be one of 186 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: the main differences you would notice in like a physical 187 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: energy kind of situation with the Hobbits, because they never 188 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: stop eating. That's one of the things that has driven 189 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: home again and again in the books. It's always time 190 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: for a meal. Yeah. Yeah. And they plus they tend 191 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: to be a little bit portly, leading many a non 192 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: halfling to question their sedendary lifestyle and and and and 193 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: as well as their insistence on those six daily meals 194 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: because they go with breakfast, second breakfast, eleven seas, luncheon, 195 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: afternoon tea, dinner, and supper. How is dinner different from supper? Yeah? 196 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: That that one was the hardest for me to figure out, 197 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: because I was like, all right, let me look at 198 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: my own, you know, dietary requirements in my schedule, and 199 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: and I realized, Okay, I usually like breakfast for me 200 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: is like smoothie and coffee, and then second breakfast is 201 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: like more coffee and like an apple or something later on, 202 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: and then eleven zas I have been no to have 203 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: like a half a peanut butter sandwich, perhaps with more coffee, 204 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: and then I have actual lunch, and then I don't 205 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: have afternoon tea, but I generally have more coffee and 206 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: perhaps another apple, and then dinner I have an evening meal, 207 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: but supper I can't. I can't really come up with 208 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: a uh, you know, a possibility for that in my life, 209 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: like unless you count an after dinner drink or a 210 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, a late night snack as a meal. And 211 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: I don't think we were talking about that with Hobbits. 212 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: I think for each of these, with the possible exception 213 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: of the afternoon tea, we're talking about a full blown meal. 214 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: Or you're closer to Hobbit scheduling than a lot of people. 215 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: Though it sounds like it sounds like you kind of graze. Yeah, 216 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: I mean, especially if I'm working from home and it's 217 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: cold out, then it's just you know, wandering around trying 218 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: to figure out what I can smear peanut butter on um. 219 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: That's why it's good to get out of the house. 220 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's hard to figure out how that 221 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: what the difference between supper and dinner would be for 222 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: for the hobbit. And clearly it points towards just the 223 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: fact that they need more to eat. They have just 224 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: higher dietary requirements than a mere human or some other species. 225 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: So here's the question, based on real world biology, is 226 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: this sort of diet reasonable for a creature of the 227 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: hobbit stature? And unfortunately we have a paper to refer 228 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: to in Christio Meno, Horran and sky Rosetti of the 229 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: University of Leicester Center for Interdisciplinary Science weighed in on 230 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: the issue in their paper modeling the BMR of species 231 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: in Middle Earth. So the BMR in question, this is 232 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: the base metabolic rate. This is the number of calories 233 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: that our bodies are very cells need in order to 234 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: function well. And the base part of it would be 235 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: this is not including whatever extra stuff you're doing. This 236 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: is just like to stay alive. Yeah, this is not 237 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: just like extra curricular eating, the wandering around the house 238 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: looking for peanut better sort of thing. So In other words, 239 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: the researchers set out to gauge the amount of energy 240 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: that a hobbits body needs to function at rest. And 241 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: they did this not only for the Hobbits of Middle 242 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: or Earth, but also for the fair elves. Okay, they 243 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: did this by modeling each fictional race as an actual 244 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: Mammalian Earth species. The European road deer stood in for 245 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: forest dwelling elves, and the hobbit, being a burrowing hole 246 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: dwelling people, was stuck with the Southwestern pygmy possum. And 247 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: this is what they figured out. They decided that for 248 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: a hobbit BMR, we're looking at one thousand, eight hundred 249 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: and eighteen point seven kilo calories every day. This compared 250 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: to seventeen or two point to killer calories every six 251 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: days for humans or or men in Middle Earth this 252 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: they're called. And then for elves, we're looking at a 253 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: one thousand, four hundred and sixteen point five kilo calories. 254 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: As such, they figured the average hobbit would require some 255 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: six point seven meals per day. And uh, indeed, that's 256 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: in keeping with the higher energy demands for smaller birds 257 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: and mammals. Now you might think, why would Smaller animals 258 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: on average have greater relative food requirements, right, Like, it 259 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't it be bigger animals that would have greater relative 260 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: food requirements. Well, on average, smaller animals do tend to 261 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: have faster metabolisms. There's you know, individual variation, but on average, 262 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: the smaller you are, probably the more energy you burn 263 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: proportional to your body mass. Why would this be? One 264 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: major reason is thermoregulation. So a major part of what 265 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: chemical energy from food does in metabolism is keep the 266 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: body warm. Heat loss from an organism is a function 267 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: of its surface area. So in the past we've talked 268 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: about you know, one reason for the biological implausibility of 269 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: like Kaiju sized animals like King Kong is that they 270 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: would probably have trouble cooling their bodies. They're they're too big, 271 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: They've got too much volume and not enough surface area 272 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: for heat to escape through. Even worse, if you happen 273 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: to be a giant fire breathing dragon like small exactly, uh, 274 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: smaller animals that would have exact the opposite problem. Right, 275 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: Smaller animals have a greater surface area to volume ratio, 276 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: meaning they lose heat faster than larger animals. Think of 277 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: the way that a smaller ice cube melts faster than 278 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: a bigger one. Uh. So they often have to eat 279 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: a lot more relative to their body weight to maintain 280 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: a stable body temperature. Uh. Some very small animals have 281 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: just unbelievable metabolic requirements and can eat huge amounts of 282 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: food relative to their bodies I was reading a Good 283 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: nat Geo article about this by Liz Langley, and uh 284 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: it made an interesting point in comparison, so it brings 285 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: up the biggest animal on the earth, the blue whale. 286 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: The blue whale on average eats about four tons of 287 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: krill every day, and that is definitely a lot of food, 288 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: or it sounds like a lot. But the blue whale 289 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: has a body mass of around two hundred tons, so 290 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: on average, the whale is only eating about two per 291 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: cent worth of its body weight every twenty four hours. Meanwhile, 292 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: pig me shrew of Britain, which only weighs about an ounce, 293 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: can eat about a hundred and twenty five percent of 294 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: its body weight per day. So think about this, It's 295 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: like a one hundred and sixty pound human eight hundred 296 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,479 Speaker 1: and twenty five percent of their body weight every day. 297 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: This would be about two hundred pounds worth of food. 298 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: I did some math, and if it was all Big Max, 299 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: that's about three hundred and seventy six Big Max a day. 300 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: Oh wow, just spread out before you. That's that's something 301 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: they divided into six meals. Well, the shrew factoid reminds 302 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: me of I imagine you've seen this because it was 303 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: on MST three K back in the day. They did 304 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: an attack of the Killer Shrews. Terrible black and white movie. 305 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: But I think it was like dogs with carpet draped 306 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: over them. Yeah, but fun in a way because I 307 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: think they tried so Basically, the situation was, hey, shrews 308 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: are these ravenous creatures, but thankfully they're small. If they 309 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: ever got big, they would be the most dangerous predator 310 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: on the planet. And then love and behold that's what 311 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: happens in this movie. Oh that's a great premise, except 312 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: it it didn't work. It doesn't work because if they 313 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: got bigger, they wouldn't have the same surface to volume problem. Yeah, 314 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: but but yeah, that that reminded me of them. I 315 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: think they end up like building a tank out of 316 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: like stuff in their cabin too, then survive the trees. 317 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: It's it's a terrible movie, but way better than it 318 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: should be. One of the things I remember about it 319 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: is the way that like the dogs that they've got 320 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: dressed up to be the Shrews really act like dogs. 321 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: And you just see them kind of like trotting around 322 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: at people like dogs new and it's cute. They're supposed 323 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: to be these menacing monsters, but like they're clearly happy 324 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: to see the people on set. And it's not just 325 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: that like this one species, the pygmy Shore of Britain 326 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: is is like, you know, freakish. Like even the common 327 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: trewe needs to eat every two to three hours and 328 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: has to consume an average of like of its body 329 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: weight every day. So this is fairly common among very 330 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: small organisms. They need to eat a lot of food 331 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: relative to their body size. And again that's the base 332 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: metabolic rate. That's not to mention other necessary expenditures for 333 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: say creatures that engage in very energy intensive activities. One 334 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: great example here is hummingbirds. So they're very small, they 335 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: have big thermoregulation requirements, but they also have huge caloric 336 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: requirements from physical activity. They've got to stay in the air. 337 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, think about how much energy it takes to 338 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,479 Speaker 1: keep vehicles in the air, So they use these rapid 339 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: wing beats that require their heart to beat about twelve 340 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: hundred times a minute, maybe like twenty beats per second. 341 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes that's that's a lot. Yeah, yeah, so they do. 342 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: They are just constantly having to feed and then if 343 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: they can't, if you have it's like I imagine most 344 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: if you have seen the various documentaries that show out 345 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: the like, in some cases, they'll just have to shut 346 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: their bodies down. They have to go into kind of 347 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: suspended animation at times. Yeah, but on an average day, 348 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: a hummingbird will often have to eat roughly twice its 349 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: body weight and nectar. Uh. So I was trying to 350 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: think would hobbits have any such require mints based on activity? 351 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: You can see why, having smaller bodies that have a 352 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: higher surface area of volume ratio. Okay, but I can't 353 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: really think of any activities that are along the lines 354 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: of the hummingbirds. I'm not sure how much energy it 355 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: takes to smoke pipeweed or to like eat tea cakes 356 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: and gossip about other families, but maybe there's something going 357 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: on there. I wonder if blowing rings of pipe weed 358 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: smoke might actually be a highly energy intensive activity. Well, 359 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: some of them are farmers, you do remember farmer maggot. Okay, 360 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: so that's a lot of work. A lot of work 361 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: goes into that. And then there there are at least 362 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: tales of warring Hobbits in the past. Which one it 363 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: was that is said to have actually ridden a horse 364 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: and battle the goblin and in a pass skirmish. So 365 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: there are exceptions, but for the most part, the typical 366 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: hobbit life that when envisions does entail a lot of 367 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: sitting around and reflecting. I guess another option is, what 368 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: if there's something going on in the hobbit brain that 369 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: makes their their nervous system very energy intensive. Yeah, so 370 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: maybe they're like secret mentats like the Hobbit the fact 371 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: that they can, you know, remember so much gossip about 372 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: the other families in the shire. Or maybe it takes 373 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: a huge amount of mental energy to constantly resist the 374 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: call to adventure. Yeah, or they they do worry a lot, 375 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: Like what if they're they're high energy cognitive powers are 376 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: used exclusively to worrying about where their next meal is 377 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: going to come from? And and uh and and how 378 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: tiresome the journey is Alright, we're gonna take a break, 379 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: but when we come back, we're going to continue this 380 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: discussion and we're gonna start talking about some some Elven bread. 381 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: Than alright, we're back. So there's an interesting follow up 382 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: to this article we were talking about with the base 383 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: metabolic rate. Again, that was from the author's Chris Show 384 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: amount of Horran and sky Rosetti. Well, they followed it 385 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: up with another paper simply walking into more door. How 386 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: much limbus would the Fellowship have needed? So Limbus, as 387 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: you might remember, is this actual travel bread of the 388 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: elves that helps sustain our adventurers. It's wrapped in leaves. 389 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: It's brown on the outside and sweet and white on 390 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: the inside, and it and it never spoils. It's just 391 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: always perfect and I don't know, maybe even a little 392 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: bit warm. It's Galadriel that gives them the limbus, right, 393 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: I think so? And yeah, it's it's supposed to be 394 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: great stuff. I aways imagine it is being like a scone, 395 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: you know, like a really good scone. Like they're just 396 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: living exclusively off scones on this journey. So it becomes 397 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: one of the key provisions that they eat a lot 398 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: on these on the journey and the Lord of the Rings. 399 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: So naturally, the authors wanted to know how much of 400 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: this one would need to sustain all nine members of 401 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: the Fellowship of the Ring on a nine two day 402 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: quest across the continent. Well, they concluded that a single 403 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: Hobbit would require seventy six pieces of Elvin limbus bread 404 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: to march all the way to Mount Doom. That amount, 405 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: that's seventy six pieces of limbus, compared with ninety nine 406 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: for a dwarf, sixty for an elf in seventy one 407 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: for humans. As such, the nine members of the Fellowship 408 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: of the Ring, they concluded, would require six hundred and 409 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: seventy five pieces of limbus, with three hundred and four 410 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: pieces allotted to the four Hobbit members. Uh, Gimili alone 411 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: would need nine pieces of limbus. Well, now I know 412 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: they didn't get that much limbus. I think they would 413 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,719 Speaker 1: have said something. I remember they talked about how you know, 414 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: you eat one bite of limbus and your full for 415 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: you know a while. Yeah, that's the other thing it is, 416 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: it is magic, and that that's the underlying footnote on 417 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: all of these discussions, right, Uh, it is ultimately magical 418 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: bread and so forth. Therefore it has its own rules. 419 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: But it's it's this, it's a neat it's a neat 420 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: consideration here. Now, of course it's probably a little bit dry. 421 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: I always imagine it being a bit dry. So you're 422 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: gonna need something to wash it all down with. You're 423 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: gonna need some some water. And here, according to yet 424 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: another paper, this time from Catherine Barrage, the conclusion is 425 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't have been able to carry all of 426 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: their water with them on the journey. She points out 427 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: that there's no agreed upon method to calculate water requirements 428 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: for adult humans, but surface area of the individual is 429 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: typically invoked, and she concludes that one hobbit would have 430 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: would have required two point four leaders per day. And 431 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: when you extrapolate that to all the days of the journey, 432 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: you're encountering an amount of water that would be impossible 433 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: for a hobbit to carry for itself. Now, aside from 434 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: Sam mentioning some concern over water on their travels, I 435 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: don't remember them really detailing a lot of their woes. 436 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: Getting potable water is good because I guess surely there 437 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: would have been some other ways to get drinking water 438 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: on the way, like when they visited this place or another. 439 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: Occasionally there's going to be a stream of of moving 440 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: water that they can trust. I don't recall them ever 441 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: being concerned about like getting giardia from drinking water out 442 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: of the stream or something. Yeah, it would have been 443 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: a different book if all the Hobbits just constantly had 444 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: dysenter area the whole way to mortal order the diarrhea. Okay, 445 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: so here's a here's here's another fun wrinkle in all 446 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: of this token rights. Meals didn't come quite as often 447 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: as Bilbo would have liked them, but still he began 448 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: to feel that adventures were not so bad after all. 449 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: So Bilbo continually complains about being hungry and tired, but 450 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: he makes do, and he digs into a wide variety 451 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: of foods during the journey. Uh. This is this is 452 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: one of the pleasures of a lot of books, really, 453 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: but especially in the Hobbit It's like all these foods 454 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: that they encountered, they're not that diverse, but there. But 455 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 1: every he eats a lot of interesting things, you know, 456 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: Like they meet up with a vegetarian wear bear and 457 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: he serves them cream and honey, you know, yeah, yeah, 458 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: or um, you know, or there, or they're scavenging sorrel 459 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: and berries in the mountain wilds and then making do 460 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: with that. You know. So he may have wanted bacon 461 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: and eggs and mushrooms like any normal hobbit, of of 462 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: taste and means, but means, of course, but he was 463 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: able to get by on all of these various foods. 464 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: So I think we can conclude from that possibly that 465 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: you know, Hobbits, like other highly adaptive organisms, benefit from 466 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: a varied omnivorous diet. So even though they require quite 467 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: a few calories, they're able to get them in a 468 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: variety of ways. I'm reminded of the primal state to 469 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: which we see the hobbit Sniegel reduced in Lord of 470 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: the Ring. Snegel like a gollum, you know, he's a sneaky, 471 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: opportunistic creature that hunts, that scavenge scavenges. He'll eat anything 472 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: he can get his hands on, even though he prefers meat. Yeah, 473 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: he'll well, he likes fish. He in the movies at least, 474 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: I don't recall the scene in the books, but he, uh, 475 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: you know what's taters precious. He does not seem to 476 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: be a fan of the carbs. He could be what 477 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: happens to a hobbit on the paleo diet. Yeah, of course, 478 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: of course, one thing we have to remember about about 479 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: Sneegel is that he's been living underground for a long 480 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: time and he's basically evolved into this more subterranean form 481 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: and he's eating he has the sort of diet you 482 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: would expect from like a mostly subterranean creature. Like he's 483 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: having to eat just a bunch of fish, uh, you know, 484 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: iOS fish whatever. You can find the occasional goblin that 485 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: he can murder in a passage way. But he does 486 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: have that beach bod is very skinny relative to the 487 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: other hobbit. It's true, he's in some ways he's in 488 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: better shape. Um. And of course he has this one 489 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: fitness secret that drives people crazy. And then of course 490 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: it's the one ring, right, Yeah, nutritionists hate him. Click 491 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: here to find his one secret. Yeah, it's it's often 492 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: overlooked the fitness advantages of the of the One Ring 493 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: in the various Rings of power, because the Nascal we're 494 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: all in pretty good shape as well, you know, regardless 495 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: of their they're possibly you know, in corporeal form and 496 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: unliving status and soulless nature. Now to speak more about 497 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: the biological effects of the One Ring. That reminds me 498 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: I was thinking about how the Hobbit fits into theories 499 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: about basal metabolic rate versus lifespan, because we know the 500 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: Ring does something of span. Hobbits live a long time. 501 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: Bilbo Baggins live to the old age of a hundred 502 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 1: and thirty one, but that is apparently due to the 503 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: unnatural life extending powers of the One Ring. Right, That's 504 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: one of the things the Ring supposedly does. It helps 505 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: you live a long time or maybe even indefinitely. If 506 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: you never lose it, though that your life becomes reduced 507 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: to a hollow echo of what it once was. Right, 508 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: And as we mentioned in the last episode about the Ring, 509 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: the Ring will lose you if it no longer needs you. 510 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: So basically it just has the option of keeping its 511 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: host alive for an extended period of time if it 512 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: if it aids the Ring. Right, but even without the Ring, 513 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: Hobbits seem to live for a long time. The ringless 514 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: Hobbit old Took lived to the ripe old age of 515 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty, just one year less than Bilbo 516 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: without any kind of special magic that we know of. 517 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: Apparently it's normal for Hobbits to live to about a 518 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: hundred uh if if the Hobbit were a real species 519 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: on Earth, that would be towards the longest end of 520 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 1: the life span spectrum. I think it's said at some 521 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: point in Lord of the Rings that Hobbits tend to 522 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: come of age in their thirties. So you might say that, 523 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't know what that. That's like puberty or something 524 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: for Hobbits. So so not just like actually get their 525 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: life together in their theorties, it actually like go through 526 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: puberty at that point. Well, I I don't know. I 527 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: mean he doesn't say puberty that's when they come of age. 528 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: I assume that's what that means, or something like the 529 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: tweens of the Hobbit world are in their twenties probably, 530 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: But the long lifespan of Hobbits is another place where 531 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: you might look at the Hobbit and say, Okay, this 532 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: seems to conflict with stuff we know about Earth biology, 533 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: because when you look at the animals on Earth, especially 534 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: you look at the mammals, it can certainly seem like 535 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: the longest lived animals tend to be large and the 536 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,959 Speaker 1: small ones tend to have short lives. Like you know, 537 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: mice and rats can live for just a couple of years, 538 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: Whales can live for a very very long time. If 539 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: you expand that to vertebrates more generally, you know, I 540 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: think the longest lived vertebrate that I know of the 541 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: greenland shark, which can live hundreds of years. Something like 542 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: the four hundred years I think was an estimate on 543 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: one recently. Yeah, but it tends to be a little 544 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: bit larger. In the twentieth century, actually, there was a 545 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: popular theory in biology that made this connection. It connected 546 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: aging and lifespan to metabolism. Uh It was known as 547 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: the rate of living theory, and essentially it said that 548 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: animals with a slower metabolism that burn energy more slowly, 549 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: will tend to live longer because expending energy literally ages you. 550 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: Uh So, animals with higher dietary requirements, faster heart rates, 551 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: faster metabolism, etcetera, will have shorter lives under this hypothesis. 552 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: There are even some humans who who seemed to at 553 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: least intuitively believe some version of this theory. Yes, I've 554 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: I've seen them quoted on this indeed. But but a 555 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: side effect of this, of course, would be the animals 556 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: with smaller body because they tend to have faster metabolisms 557 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: like we were talking about earlier, will also on average 558 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: have shorter lives, and so at a glance that does 559 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: seem to line up with the animal world. Right. So, 560 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: this theory, first proposed in the early nineteen twenties, is 561 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: often associated primarily with early work done by an American 562 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: biologist named Raymond Pearl, and it really did seem plausible 563 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: for a while, but eventually it was undercut by evidence. 564 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: So you had early studies of animal lifespans that sort 565 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: of seemed to support it, but then later studies with 566 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: more detailed data sets and better analysis didn't actually find 567 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: a broad correlation between metabolism and lifespan. For example, birds 568 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: tend to have higher metabolisms than than mammals of about 569 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: the same size, yet on average the birds tend to 570 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: live longer. So even though we can find a lot 571 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: of examples of smaller animals that have short lives and 572 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: larger animals that have long lives, it turns out the 573 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: correlation doesn't hold up. The better your analysis is, I 574 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: was reading about another study that undercut the rate of 575 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: living hypothesis by looking at metabolic manipulations within the same species. 576 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: So the very short version is you have rats in 577 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: two different conditions. One set of rats lives in a 578 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: world of twenty two degrees celsius or seventy one degrees fahrenheit, 579 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: the nice warm world, and then there's another group of 580 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: rats that lives at ten degrees celsius or fifty degrees fahrenheit. 581 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: So obviously the group living in colder conditions has to 582 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: burn more energy to maintain body temperature. So by rate 583 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: of living logic, you would expect them to die younger, 584 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: but they didn't. The study found that the the rodents 585 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: and the two conditions lived the same average lifespan, So 586 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: the rate of living hypothesis is no longer thought to 587 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: be correct, and it represents no threat whatsoever to the 588 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: plausibility of hobbits. Excellent. Alright, on that note, we're going 589 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: to take one more break and hopefully there'll be an 590 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: ad for Limbus in here. We're gonna trying to get 591 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: Limbus as a sponsor for a while, but see how 592 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: it goes. Anyway, One more break and then we'll be 593 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: right back. Alright, we're back. You know, what's great is 594 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: dipping your limbus in a nice bowl of brown Yeah. 595 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. I always figured it was it's just dessert, 596 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: Like it's dessert all the time. Maybe they just coul that. 597 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: I read it originally as a kid, so at the time, 598 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it's like this, it's like short bread 599 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: all day, every day. Ever been into short bread? I 600 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: don't even like it as dessert. Uh, well, you know 601 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: you're not a Hobbit. They maybe they're more into it, 602 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: or elves. Maybe the elves themselves have, you know, different 603 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: tolerance for sweets. What's the Middle Earth species that really 604 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: likes like pickles? That's that's I think it's probably Hobbits. Again, 605 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: I feel like Hobbits could be totally into pickles. I 606 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: don't remember specifically if if there was ever mentioned of 607 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: Hobbits eating pickles, but I bet they like pickles. Dude, 608 00:32:54,600 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: you should try dwarf and century eggs. Alright. So, if 609 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: we're to entertain the idea that Hobbits as a species 610 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: factor so heavily into the struggle for Middle Earth, based 611 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: in part on their biology, it raises this question, how 612 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: suited are the various other species or or races as 613 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: they're sometimes called, especially due to you know, this is 614 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: another fantasy as well, Like the indungeons and dragons, you 615 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: talk about the different races even though you're essentially talking 616 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: about different species. Um So, so you know, how do 617 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: these other various species stack up in the struggle for 618 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: global dominance just based on their biology? And it's interesting 619 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: to think about this because while Homo sapiens came into 620 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: contact with the likes of the Neanderthals, Middle Earth is 621 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: an entirely different situation because you have multiple species of 622 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: similar cognitive and technological abilities coming into contact with each other, 623 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: warring against each other, forming factions, and and granted, some 624 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: of the players involved our magical beings, others are artificial creations, 625 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: and others still or essentially demigods, but we're we're talking 626 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: a world full of humans, elves, dwarfs, hobbits, goblins, orcs, trolls, giants, dragons, 627 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: and then various animals with human level intelligence such as 628 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: the eagles, just to name a few. The deciding factor, however, 629 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: might just come down to sunlight, what which which? Isn't 630 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: that surprising, right, because sunlight is good, darkness bad. This 631 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: is a basic dichotomy of of our of our fantasy 632 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: and our myth make but but, but let's think back 633 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: to the hobbits omnivorous diet and its subterranean tendencies, because 634 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: I want to talk about briefly about a fun little 635 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,959 Speaker 1: paper that you can find in full in PDF form 636 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: on online if you want to read it for yourself, 637 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: by Dr Joseph A. Hopkinson and and his son Nicholas S. Hopkinson. 638 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: Uh And this was published in the Medical Journal of 639 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: Australia paper The hobbit An Unexpected Deficiency and uh And 640 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: what they end up arguing is that their very diet, 641 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: the very diet of the hobbit um, would be key 642 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: to elevating their vitamin D levels. So vitamin D, as 643 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: I think we've discussed in the show before, is crucial 644 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: for skeletal health and the immune system, with deficiency symptoms 645 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: ranging from stuff like depression and weakness to increased bone fragility. Uh. 646 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: None of those are things you want while adventuring on 647 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 1: a great quest to save the world right or to 648 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: conquer it. Either way, you want to want to look 649 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: at it. You don't want to be depressed and weak 650 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: and possibly more susceptible to bone breaks. Now a note here, 651 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: oily fish are a great place to get your vitamin 652 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: D if you're not getting it from the sun. So 653 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: advantage to Sniegel here. Oh that's right, he loves them wriggling. Yeah, 654 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: but I don't know, do we see him eating oily fish? 655 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: Is he getting I don't know how oily the subterranean 656 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: fish of the Misty Mountains happened to be. But but 657 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: maybe he's getting the occasional like and of sardines from 658 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: the goblins. Anyway. Uh, he loves a good mahi mahi. 659 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: So anyway, Bilbo's diverse diet and willingness to travel long 660 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: distances in the sun, according to the Hopkinson's not only 661 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: boost his vitamin D intake, but also makes the Hobbit 662 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: species one of Middle or It's top vitamin D consumers. 663 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: So they assigned major Middle Earth species and individuals a 664 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: vitamin D score between zero and four. Hobbits, men, and 665 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: high elves they topped the list. They get fours across 666 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: the board. Dwarves scored to three gallum score, Sniegel scored 667 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: a lowly one, and then the evil species of Middle Earth, 668 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: the dragons, the goblins and the trolls, and I'm assuming 669 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: they're they're they're putting the works in with the goblins here, 670 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: since they're essentially the same species, all of them scored zeros, 671 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: because these are basically entirely indoor, underground species, right, right, 672 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: or they live in in darkness and you know, I 673 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: mean Mordor itself, right, is often depicted and described as 674 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: being like clothed, you know, shielded from the sun by 675 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: the volcanic ashes of Mount Doom. Right, it is a 676 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: realm of darkness. Yeah, I know, Tolkien said that he 677 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: did not write these books as allegory, but yeah, I 678 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: wonder if what were was he really just trying to 679 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: get his kids to go outside. It's like, you know, 680 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: you live your whole life inside, you become a bad 681 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: goblin like me. Well, yeah, I mean it's I mean 682 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: that critique has been applied to his work before. Right. 683 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: The idea that like Mordor is industrialism and uh and 684 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: modernity and and the shire is you know, is that 685 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:41,280 Speaker 1: the rural countryside and traditional ways of England. Right, So anyway, 686 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: moral attributes and marshall prowess are also going to play 687 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: a factor, they argue, But they think that vitamin D 688 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: consumption might be a key predictor for victory in Middle Earth. 689 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: And uh, and it's worth noting that Dr Hopkinson uh 690 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: knew what he knows what he's talking about with vitamin D. 691 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: He previously studied the effects of vitamin D people with 692 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: lung disease. As a result, he's not a fan of 693 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: all the smoking that goes on, so, especially from with 694 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: the Hobbits and the wizarding folk like Gandalf. Uh, that 695 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: would not be be good for their overall health. But 696 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: still no, wait a minute, I was reading. According to Sauron, 697 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: smoking has not been definitively linked with any negative health effects. 698 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if if you can dress saar On on 699 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,439 Speaker 1: that one. Um. So, anyway, the howay lie? Why would 700 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: he lie? It's the great deceiver, right, You're forgetting his 701 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: prior forms. You're only thinking about the all seeing eye, 702 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: and you think that just because he has an all 703 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: seeing eye, he's privy to all truth. But he's still 704 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: a liar worm tongue said it to. He said that 705 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: this is anti pipeweed alarmism. Alright, So taking all of 706 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: this into account, we can look at the Hobbit and 707 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: we say, the Hobbit ultimately offers us a high metabolism 708 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: creature with a very diet able to march across Middle 709 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: or its varied ecosystems and eat whatever they can find 710 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: within reason in order to maintain their vitamin D levels 711 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 1: and therefore contribute to the victory of good over evil 712 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: in Middle Earth. I buy it now, Robert. I've got 713 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: to ask, what what got you looking for Hobbit papers? 714 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: I know somehow you must have set out on this journey. 715 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: Well this, this happens a lot where something will enter 716 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: my head and I'll think, well, let's see if their 717 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: papers about the Lord of the Ring. Let's see if 718 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: people are mentioning, you know, because sometimes it's you'll find 719 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: examples where where authors of even very very serious uh 720 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: scientific papers will just, at least for fun, reference a 721 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: particular myth or a particular uh you know, the line 722 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: from Shakespeare. So sometimes you have like that level of 723 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: treatment or it's a pun in the title of that's 724 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: frequently used in the title of a scientific study. But 725 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: but then you have these this level of study as well, 726 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: which which I think is great, you know, again, very 727 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: tongue in cheek. All of these were written at least 728 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: in part to entertain UH. And the vitamin D papers 729 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: specific especially has like a fun little illustration in it 730 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: as well, So it was very much I think it 731 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: was part of like a Christmas UH special that they 732 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: put out where they have a lot of tongue in 733 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: cheap papers. But it's it's also I think these are 734 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: all fun because, especially for a show like ours, we 735 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: might normally not really discuss vitamin D deficiency on the 736 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: show at length, but this gives us a reason to 737 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: get into it and and kind of an angle that 738 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 1: makes it more interesting than it might otherwise be. And 739 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: and it's of course it's a it's an important topic 740 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: as well, right because it comes down to human health. 741 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: Like one of the one of the things that the 742 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: Hopkinson's arguing in their paper is that, you know, ultimately, 743 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: if we're to draw some sort of conclusion from all 744 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,879 Speaker 1: of this, it's that we all need to consider having 745 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: a more very diet and UH getting out in the sun, um, 746 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, with proper protection of course, if concerning the 747 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: rays of the sun, but you know, get your vitamin D, 748 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: have a very diet and stay active and it's going 749 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: to benefit you and also stay away from that those 750 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: Hobbit pipes and those wizarding pipes, because good for you. 751 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: But this is just one This is just one angle 752 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: on Middle Earth and science. I'm sure there are numerous 753 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: other articles out there that that that go after a 754 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: different angle of Tolkien's work and work some science on it. 755 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: So maybe we'll be able to come back in a 756 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: future episode and discuss some other corner of Middle Earth. 757 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: I had the idea that we could do an episode 758 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: about nts. I'm not sure what we We'd figure it out. 759 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: We have to play the episode at half speed. Unfortunately, 760 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 1: we could totally do an episode on it's getting into 761 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 1: the like the movements of plants and uh, you know, 762 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: the trees that quote unquote walk uh. I mean there 763 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: are examples that are that are pretty fascinating and and 764 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: really when you start, when you essentially consider that that 765 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,399 Speaker 1: plants are are living at this different time frame than 766 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: this different rate than animals, you know, when you start, 767 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: you know, speeding things up, you you see some amazing 768 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,760 Speaker 1: movements on the part of of trees and uh vines 769 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: and so forth. So I think there would be something 770 00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: to discuss with inns if we wanted to come back 771 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: to that or getting into the whole and in a 772 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: way we wouldn't but we wouldn't want to cover this 773 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: in an episode on INNS. This really deserves its own episode. 774 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: But just the idea of plant intelligence plant communication, there's 775 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: some pretty fascinating theories out there, especially on plant communication. 776 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: That's a that is a topic I'd like to come 777 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: back to. You know, I've thought before like what types 778 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 1: of plants would evolve intelligence if they ever did, And 779 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: I think maybe it would have to be carnivorous plants, 780 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: right like venus fly traps, because they'd have they have 781 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: a movement mechanism. The movement mechanism is something that could 782 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: be exploited over time and evolution as a manipulation mechanism, 783 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: which in turn maybe prioritizes UH strategies for manipulation of objects. Yeah. There, 784 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 1: you basically rights itself. You have well have to come 785 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: back and talk about INNS sometime, all right. In the meantime, 786 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:49,919 Speaker 1: if you want to check out other episodes of Stuff 787 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: to Blow your mind, we recommend you do so. Again, 788 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: we did a previous episode titled The One Ring that 789 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: gets into metallurgy and what basically asking the question what 790 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: could the one ring have potentially been made of if 791 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,799 Speaker 1: it were to have the various actual boots that are 792 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: described in the books and the films. Uh. It's a fun, 793 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: a fun back and forth, so check that one out 794 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: if you want. If you want to find that episode 795 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: or any episode, you can go to stuff to Blow 796 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com and that will shoot you over 797 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,320 Speaker 1: to the I Heart listing for our show. But you 798 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: can find Stuff to Blow your Mind wherever you get 799 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 1: your podcast, wherever that happens to be. Just make sure 800 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: you rate, review, and subscribe huge thanks as always to 801 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: our excellent audio producers Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would 802 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: like to get in touch with us with feedback on 803 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,720 Speaker 1: this episode or any other to suggest topic for the future, 804 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: just to say hi, you can email us at contact 805 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to 806 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For 807 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,959 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 808 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. 809 00:43:54,760 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah bla bla blah blah. The Press Joint 810 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: four point four Part