Speaker 1: Warning.
Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for Marvels, Thunderbolts, Astros.
Speaker 1: The asterisk is important, guys, it is important.
Speaker 3: It's important.
Speaker 4: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name is Jason Concepcio and I'm mesday Night, and
Speaker 2: welcome back to x Ravis in the podcast where we
Speaker 2: dive deep to do your favorite shows, movies, comics, and
Speaker 2: pop culture.
Speaker 1: Coming to you from my Ora podcast where.
Speaker 2: We're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
Speaker 5: Busters.
Speaker 6: In today's episode, we've been prepping for it.
Speaker 5: We've asked who they are. We have gone on a
Speaker 5: journey with you, reading.
Speaker 6: The first ever issue of their appearance, Thunderbolts number one
Speaker 6: from ninety ninety seven.
Speaker 5: And now it is here.
Speaker 6: We are somehow already in May, and the Thunderbolts is
Speaker 6: on our greens. It's the second of our three Marvel movies.
Speaker 6: We are getting this year, back to the three a
Speaker 6: year timeline. It hasn't been like that for a while.
Speaker 6: We had Captain America, Brave New World. You can listen
Speaker 6: to our episode about that. Now we have Thunderbolts, and
Speaker 6: soon we will be introducing the Fantastic Four, So make
Speaker 6: sure you listen to us talking all about it now
Speaker 6: and how these could connect to the future of the MCU.
Speaker 5: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's stick into it.
Speaker 2: Rossie, do you want to recap this one for us?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll do a little recap.
Speaker 6: So I'm going to start with Bob because I think
Speaker 6: that is a major plot line here.
Speaker 5: To talk about the movie, we have to talk about.
Speaker 6: Bob, played by Lewis Pullman in a role that was
Speaker 6: definitely originally written for Stephen Yurn. You can like feel
Speaker 6: Stevens kind of shadow over this, though.
Speaker 5: Lewis does a great job.
Speaker 6: We meet Bob as we meet Elena play by follow
Speaker 6: us p US agent Wyatt Russell and Ghost Tanner John
Speaker 6: Cayman in the bows of Valentina Allegra Dyfontein's Volcano Layer.
Speaker 5: Now, I will say, if you are a comic book fan,
Speaker 5: you may have noticed that the.
Speaker 6: Thunderbolts have a layer like that called Thunderbolt's Mountain, So
Speaker 6: that was a nice nod there. None of life has
Speaker 6: not been going well for any of them, and the
Speaker 6: three villains are there.
Speaker 5: To kill each other. They've been set up by Valentina.
Speaker 6: They are rogue operatives and she wants to tie up
Speaker 6: the loose ends also there in a wee rewrite moment,
Speaker 6: sorry rip to that task Master.
Speaker 5: Task Master is there too.
Speaker 6: Ghost shoots her in the head, which sets up the
Speaker 6: darker tone of this movie, and Olga Corilenko's controversial task
Speaker 6: Master is no more.
Speaker 5: As the Walker, Ghost.
Speaker 6: And Yelena have a really, really excellently choreographed fight scene,
Speaker 6: Bob emerges and he seems like a strange little guy.
Speaker 6: We love a little guy here. He doesn't really know
Speaker 6: what's going on. But as they escape and Bob decides
Speaker 6: to sacrifice himself to help them, we learn the actual
Speaker 6: Bob is part of a super Soldier serum test subject
Speaker 6: project and again.
Speaker 1: They ever learn you.
Speaker 5: Make it, babe.
Speaker 6: So Valentina has been running an illegal, dark ops version
Speaker 6: of the Super Soldier project called the Century Project. As
Speaker 6: you will know, the Century is a combo character. We
Speaker 6: will get into that more as the film goes on.
Speaker 6: We also learn how Valentina is like evil. If you
Speaker 6: didn't know, she has been killing test subjects. She's about
Speaker 6: to burn these three kind of anti hero villains alive
Speaker 6: to get rid of them, tie tie up all the
Speaker 6: loose ense.
Speaker 5: She does not care.
Speaker 6: All she cares about is her political career, which is
Speaker 6: not going well. She's about to be impeached because of
Speaker 6: all of her shady behavior and alas the brave sweet Bob,
Speaker 6: who tries to sacrifice himself, gets shot and then flies
Speaker 6: up into the sky like Superman because the sentry is
Speaker 6: essentially was introduced as Marbles Superman. He ends up in
Speaker 6: the hands of Valentina Alegrity Fonteine, and she, essentially like Mummy,
Speaker 6: issues him into becoming this like telepathic telekinetic superhero that
Speaker 6: she needs to control the country and its current kind
Speaker 6: of superhero power void.
Speaker 5: She puts on a blue sweater.
Speaker 6: She says, oh, do I look nurturing enough and goes
Speaker 6: in and help and basically manipulates him into becoming her superhero.
Speaker 5: But as her assistant Mel, who I'm still rooting.
Speaker 6: For to be Songbird, I believe it could happen, Mel
Speaker 6: kind of highlights her Hey Bob clearly has some kind
Speaker 6: of mental health issues. If you are someone who suffers
Speaker 6: from manic depression or who has a loved one who
Speaker 6: suffers from manic depression, you will probably recognize that.
Speaker 5: In the way that he talks.
Speaker 6: Valentine doesn't care because she's a terrible person, and it
Speaker 6: seems interestingly that Bob has been having these experiences throughout
Speaker 6: his life from when he was a child, where he
Speaker 6: will black out and then he doesn't remember what happens
Speaker 6: and bad things happen, which makes me think maybe they're
Speaker 6: hinting that he's a mutant in this universe anyway, Soon
Speaker 6: he transforms into the golden haired, golden suited Sentry and
Speaker 6: battles his former friends the Thunderbolts, especially ful to Yolna,
Speaker 6: who he connected with on an emotional level, which will
Speaker 6: be a key part.
Speaker 5: Of the film. He turns quickly.
Speaker 6: After realizing that Valentina is not a good person, into
Speaker 6: the literal negative space, the void, sucking people into his
Speaker 6: darkness and on the streets of New York, leaving nothing
Speaker 6: more than these kind of terrifying, burnt out silhouettes. Great
Speaker 6: visual here and what we saw in the trailer. Now
Speaker 6: that we're caught up and Bob, we can kind of
Speaker 6: join the Thunderbolts in their third act battle to save
Speaker 6: New York by helping him, And it's clear that that
Speaker 6: Elena and Bob connection and the way that the two
Speaker 6: of them emotionally bonded over having depression over their own
Speaker 6: trauma over things they had done in the past. It
Speaker 6: makes her feel like she's willing to take a risk,
Speaker 6: and as all of New York is sucked into the Void,
Speaker 6: she steps into it in order to find Bob.
Speaker 5: And help him.
Speaker 6: And I have to say, I think this is one
Speaker 6: of the coolest sequences in the movie where we really
Speaker 6: get a kind of almost Doctor Stranger in the multivers
Speaker 6: of Madness wonder vision, kind of surreal moment as Yolena
Speaker 6: fights through the void, which in this version, which is
Speaker 6: new for the movie, essentially gives her a maze like
Speaker 6: house where every room is a different thing she is
Speaker 6: ashamed of. It's kind of your nightmare situation. It's rumination
Speaker 6: turned up to eleven. I will say. Aaron just wants
Speaker 6: to point out and I know it was controversial that
Speaker 6: I mentioned Multiverse and Madness. Aaron wants to say, this
Speaker 6: movie's better than Multiverse and Madness. Don't get turned on it,
Speaker 6: you know what I want? Yeah, from a movie, but yes,
Speaker 6: this is definitely more grounded as it's happening. Bucky, he
Speaker 6: who is a congressman that didn't you know, succeed. He's
Speaker 6: been a congressman for six months.
Speaker 5: Now he's back.
Speaker 6: He's helping the Thunderbolts try to fight against the Valentina
Speaker 6: alegra dyfonteinevi All and Elena is inside having to fight
Speaker 6: through these moments. The big one that we see is
Speaker 6: her introduction as a black widow, where she had to
Speaker 6: lure a friend of hers to the woods and be
Speaker 6: shot in the head by an operative. It doesn't seem
Speaker 6: like the friend did anything wrong, it was more of
Speaker 6: a test of her loyalty. And as she finds Bob,
Speaker 6: he is hidden in an attic where he basically has
Speaker 6: to watch his dad beat his mum and beat him
Speaker 6: kind of over and over again, but he claims that
Speaker 6: is the best room in the house for him, which
Speaker 6: tells you a lot about his history and his life. Luckily,
Speaker 6: she finds Bob. She convinces him to leave with her,
Speaker 6: but the Void tries to stop them. When we get
Speaker 6: these really crazy surreal moments to Void wrapping things around
Speaker 6: their neck, we learn you can't die inside of the Void,
Speaker 6: you just live in the pain forever, which is really horrific.
Speaker 5: We get some great Florence Puwiulaana moments here.
Speaker 6: She very famously jumps off the tower second highest building
Speaker 6: in the world. That's what opens the movie, and here
Speaker 6: we get to see Florence doing some really outrageous action,
Speaker 6: but ultimately she and Bob cannot save themselves alone. And
Speaker 6: this is where the real thread of the movie comes in,
Speaker 6: which is Red Guardian, who has been helping the Thunderbolts
Speaker 6: and is very much in love with the idea of
Speaker 6: being part of a team, shows up with Bucky Ghost
Speaker 6: and US Agent and the community care that they bring
Speaker 6: into this mean that Bob and Eulna can get out,
Speaker 6: and that is the big kind of theme of this movie,
Speaker 6: is the idea that building a community and building a
Speaker 6: group of people who will help you can get you
Speaker 6: out of a very very dark place, in this case
Speaker 6: of literally a dark place because.
Speaker 5: Of the void.
Speaker 6: They escape and luckily everyone including the child we see
Speaker 6: get sucked into the void very early on, is back.
Speaker 5: They're out of that moment.
Speaker 6: I think, honestly gonna need a lot of therapy if
Speaker 6: you were trapped in that, because it was horrific. And
Speaker 6: they see Valentina, they're like, we're taking her in and
Speaker 6: they follow her through a construction scaffolding kind of moment. Tricky, tricky,
Speaker 6: stop Valentina and you think, oh, finally she's going to
Speaker 6: get what's you know, what she deserves. Us agent wants
Speaker 6: to kill her, understandably, but Bucky's like, we're taking her
Speaker 6: in alas she is much smarter than they give her
Speaker 6: credit for. They walk through, she's assembled the press and
Speaker 6: she has decided to turn this into a pr moment
Speaker 6: where she claims, actually, what me and my assistant Mel
Speaker 6: have been working on is this secret project. And it's
Speaker 6: not the Century Project.
Speaker 5: Obviously that wasn't me. Who was the Void? Who knows
Speaker 5: that was really bad? But guess what it was? This
Speaker 5: new team who you just all saw save New York.
Speaker 5: And what is that team's name? Jason? And why was
Speaker 5: the asterisk there?
Speaker 2: This is the new Avengers folks unexpected balanced secret and
Speaker 2: while it takes an heroes by surprise.
Speaker 6: Elena instantly realizes that it gives them great leverage, and
Speaker 6: she lets Valentina know whispering we own you now as
Speaker 6: the group kind of all silently agreed to go along
Speaker 6: with her little scheme. And we see that they take
Speaker 6: up residents in the Avengers Tower, which Valentina bought, and
Speaker 6: they are seemingly the city's newest crime fighting team, and
Speaker 6: let's go to an ad break and afterwards we will
Speaker 6: come back and talk about the post credit scenes and
Speaker 6: where this leaves the MCU as we go forward into
Speaker 6: the rest of twenty twenty five, and we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back to post credits scenes in this movie. The
Speaker 2: mid credit scene features a red Guardian in civilian clothes
Speaker 2: in like a Whole Foods and he is standing in
Speaker 2: the cereal aisle because he can't wait to press the
Speaker 2: wheaties box featuring the New Avengers on the cover on
Speaker 2: anyone who wanders into the aisles.
Speaker 5: This is his dream come true.
Speaker 2: It's his dream come true, the American dream folks, It's happened.
Speaker 2: And then the final stinger, very interesting features it. We've
Speaker 2: jumped ahead some amount of time fourteen months, I believe
Speaker 2: fourteen months. The new Avengers are in their Avengers their
Speaker 2: new Avengers Tower, which is the old Avengers Tower, but
Speaker 2: now least and upgraded by the Countess Valentina Dyfontaine, and
Speaker 2: they are frustrated and having a conversation because they are
Speaker 2: apparently being suited by Sam Wilson and his Avengers group.
Speaker 6: Who have he has copyrighted the name the Avengers, right.
Speaker 1: It's under the you know og Avengers LLC.
Speaker 2: And he is trying to clawback the name, the iconography,
Speaker 2: the IP from the New Avengers.
Speaker 1: So that's going on. And it also.
Speaker 2: Seems like the public, you know, public opinion is with
Speaker 2: Sam and his other Avengers, the Original Avenger, whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call them, and it is only very tenuously
Speaker 2: attached to the New Avengers, if they were ever attached
Speaker 2: to all the New Avengers. Throughout the movie, it's played up.
Speaker 2: Their loser status is really played up, as is their
Speaker 2: outsider status and the fact that you know, this is
Speaker 2: a group of highly contentious individuals who are only barely
Speaker 2: a team. And I think this is best exemplified by
Speaker 2: you know us agent who is referred to as like
Speaker 2: dime store Captain America in a variety of different ways.
Speaker 6: Everyone in America knows that he killed that man with
Speaker 6: his shield, Like you're not necessarily going to be turning
Speaker 6: people onto their side with kind of unknown heroes or
Speaker 6: failed congressman.
Speaker 5: He was careful.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was captual week official Captain America for a week,
Speaker 6: and that's.
Speaker 1: A tough look.
Speaker 2: And he is a core member of the New Avengers.
Speaker 2: So while that is going on. They get an alert
Speaker 2: satellite alert because there is a some kind of craft
Speaker 2: that is entering orbit.
Speaker 6: Yes, and an extra dimensional crop extra dimension coming from
Speaker 6: somewhere else, some.
Speaker 2: Other dimension, and they zooming on it and it is
Speaker 2: clearly the Fantastic four rocket ship.
Speaker 6: Now he's seen this, very nice Fantastic for rockship. I
Speaker 6: also want to say they mention multiple times in this
Speaker 6: post credit scene that there's some kind of a space
Speaker 6: crisis going on, which.
Speaker 1: I think there's a space crisis.
Speaker 6: I think my gut would say it's some kind of
Speaker 6: understanding of Galactus being there. But I also think it's
Speaker 6: a smart way to essentially explain away the big questions
Speaker 6: of like where was Dead Evil, where I was Spider Man,
Speaker 6: Like potentially there is a bigger crisis that these other
Speaker 6: heroes were involved with during the couple of days that
Speaker 6: this movie well let's talk about it.
Speaker 2: So I think what the crisis is is the incursions,
Speaker 2: and I think what's happening we should say that we
Speaker 2: don't know in this Fantastic for a rocket ship whether
Speaker 2: that is the First Family.
Speaker 5: Powered or unpowered.
Speaker 2: Is this the flight that gets them the powers or
Speaker 2: is this coming on the heels of Fantastic for the
Speaker 2: movie or someone else in the ship.
Speaker 5: Aaron is, Oh, that's a good point. Aaron said, yeah,
Speaker 5: i'd be so.
Speaker 6: I think this is them coming off the Galactus has destroyed,
Speaker 6: there's a planet, and they're coming to warn offs for
Speaker 6: dooms Day.
Speaker 2: Well, I think this is I think the Space crisis
Speaker 2: are the incursions that have kind of been happening already
Speaker 2: throughout m HM, several Marvel movies leading up to this, right,
Speaker 2: it's been hinted at and it's been showed like explicitly
Speaker 2: in various scenes through multiple dimensions that there are dimensions
Speaker 2: are crashing into each other, destroying both dimensions. So I
Speaker 2: think what they're setting up is this is beginning to
Speaker 2: happen in six one six. I think wherever the Fantastic
Speaker 2: Four are, they're not only dealing with Galactus, but the
Speaker 2: fact that these incursions are happening, and I think they
Speaker 2: are traveling.
Speaker 1: To our world basically.
Speaker 2: To either trying to basically try and stop these incursions
Speaker 2: they're coming from this other dimensions. I think that's probably
Speaker 2: what this is. The Space crisis is those the fact
Speaker 2: that the multiverse is collapsing into itself.
Speaker 1: What you what are your thoughts.
Speaker 6: No, I think that's I think that's a great take.
Speaker 6: I definitely I'm like Galactus Superstan. I love Galactus. I
Speaker 6: love the comics that he is in.
Speaker 5: I love the character.
Speaker 6: So to me, I was like, I wonder if they
Speaker 6: are sent saying that Galactus is coming. It seems like
Speaker 6: the New Avengers are not getting all the information. They
Speaker 6: just know that there is some kind of outer space crisis.
Speaker 6: So I'm interested, But I think incursions is much more likely,
Speaker 6: and I think that the Fantastic Four are probably in
Speaker 6: that ship.
Speaker 5: Though I do think.
Speaker 6: There's a version of it where it's just Franklin or
Speaker 6: something like that, you know, because we know Franklin will
Speaker 6: be born during at some point in the movie. It
Speaker 6: looks like and we don't know kind of what the
Speaker 6: timeline of that is going to be compared to where
Speaker 6: we are.
Speaker 5: It did give Superman, you know.
Speaker 6: With the kind of idea of like you've got to
Speaker 6: be launched through time to save yourself, launched through space.
Speaker 5: But I think at the moment they've done something.
Speaker 6: Very clever, which is they've established the Fantastic for exist.
Speaker 6: You're going to see them soon and we can decide
Speaker 6: whatever we decide when the Fantastic Four movie comes out,
Speaker 6: you know, so it's kind of open ended.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about this movie and our reactions to it.
Speaker 2: Your thoughts on Thunderbolt's asterisk.
Speaker 6: I was not at all surprised to see all the
Speaker 6: great reviews coming out. I think this is one of
Speaker 6: the MCU's most emotionally authentic movies. I think it's that way.
Speaker 6: I think it's actually quite rare because if you look back,
Speaker 6: there are not many Marvel movies that have something really
Speaker 6: big to say, outside of say, Black Panther. I think
Speaker 6: that this movie comes in with a really direct and good,
Speaker 6: universally relatable story about mental health. I actually think that
Speaker 6: is the thing that is smartest about this version of
Speaker 6: the Void.
Speaker 5: They did not do.
Speaker 6: The mystery that we got from the Rick Veach and
Speaker 6: Jay comics, where the Void nobody.
Speaker 5: Remembers that it was a.
Speaker 6: Much bigger than he has to go and get them,
Speaker 6: and he's fighting against the Void and you don't know
Speaker 6: they're the same person. Instead, they translate that here to
Speaker 6: how does it feel when you have the worst day
Speaker 6: of your life and you think you're totally alone? And
Speaker 6: I think that's incredibly clever and smart, because everybody has
Speaker 6: felt that way, whether you have severe mental health struggles
Speaker 6: or whether you just have a bad day, You've.
Speaker 5: Felt like I'm alone.
Speaker 6: Nobody wants to help me, and I wish there were
Speaker 6: people who would come and get me and say, hey,
Speaker 6: it's gonna be okay. Hey we can work together. And
Speaker 6: this movie in that way becomes, like I said, universally relatable.
Speaker 6: I think Lewis Pullman is incredible as Bob. My letterboxed
Speaker 6: review was basically nice.
Speaker 1: Son of Bill.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was basically like, hey, I can't change who
Speaker 6: I am. I would die for Bob like I love
Speaker 6: this kind of character. I love a character who is
Speaker 6: trying their best. I love a character who has done
Speaker 6: terrible things and wants to make up for them, which
Speaker 6: is something that runs through the through line of this movie.
Speaker 6: I think it's incredibly efficiently made. I think it's edited
Speaker 6: really well. I think the action is good.
Speaker 5: There is. They do not have a lot of needle
Speaker 5: drops in this movie.
Speaker 6: In fact, the only needle drop is a genuine pony
Speaker 6: song that I fucking love, which is played for a
Speaker 6: good comedic effect, which I thought was very interesting. The
Speaker 6: strongest thing I think about this movie is I think
Speaker 6: that the EMCU could learn a lot from this idea of, Hey,
Speaker 6: here are some people who live in this world who
Speaker 6: you wouldn't normally get featured in this way. Here's two
Speaker 6: days of them living and trying to survive in this
Speaker 6: world where people have all kinds of superpowers, all kinds
Speaker 6: of agendas, and all kinds of kind of abilities to
Speaker 6: bring these terrible and brilliant things to life. I think
Speaker 6: this almost works as like a pocket story within the MCU,
Speaker 6: and I think it's intimate and small and interesting, and
Speaker 6: I think that the quick timeline does avoid a lot
Speaker 6: of those questions of.
Speaker 5: Like where's dead of or where's Spider Man?
Speaker 6: And obviously then you get this kind of idea of
Speaker 6: this bigger space crisis that people are focusing on. I
Speaker 6: think they could do a lot more movies like this.
Speaker 6: I think it it's kind of akin to what they
Speaker 6: were doing with Marvel Studios Presents, you know, which I
Speaker 6: thought with and I feel like this is that on
Speaker 6: a bigger scale. I did really think it was just
Speaker 6: a really great, well made movie, but there's there's a
Speaker 6: little something about it where I didn't connect emotionally in
Speaker 6: the same way that I do with a lot of
Speaker 6: these movies where I come out and I'm like, I
Speaker 6: have to see it again, Like I have to see
Speaker 6: more of these characters now. That is to say also,
Speaker 6: I love Florence's Yelena.
Speaker 5: I think she's brilliant.
Speaker 6: I love that the director understood that if you have
Speaker 6: Florence Pew in your movies, you just have to do
Speaker 6: loads of close ups on her face because she's such
Speaker 6: a fantastic face actor.
Speaker 5: And we open with her face and we end with
Speaker 5: her face.
Speaker 2: So I'm always sang after this. I think this is
Speaker 2: some of the best actual acting in an MC movie
Speaker 2: that we've seen in a little bit.
Speaker 6: And it is a return back to what made Phase
Speaker 6: one so beloved, which is characters, an in depth character
Speaker 6: x and they get a lot of that in just.
Speaker 5: This kind of, you know, two hour movie.
Speaker 6: And I will say as well, I loved in the
Speaker 6: first third of the movie. I love the Hannah John
Speaker 6: Kaman representation of ghosts. She got so much more personality,
Speaker 6: so much more kind of intricacy, so much more humor,
Speaker 6: which I think really comes with being someone who has
Speaker 6: chronic illness like she does.
Speaker 5: In Chronic Pain.
Speaker 6: I don't necessarily think they did a lot with her
Speaker 6: post that, but I thought that was really good. I
Speaker 6: am like, honestly, I love why at Russell. He's one
Speaker 6: of my favorite actors working right now. But I am
Speaker 6: like a US agent in the MCU hater, like I
Speaker 6: don't really need him to be in this story.
Speaker 5: I don't like him. It's not for me.
Speaker 6: But I love to see Bucky Sebastian Stan doing a
Speaker 6: lot here. I thought it was great, and I think
Speaker 6: it's a great vehicle for Florence Peugh. For some reason, though,
Speaker 6: it just like I don't I maybe because it was
Speaker 6: actually like a little real.
Speaker 5: I am someone who struggles a lot with my mental health.
Speaker 5: Maybe that was like a little raw.
Speaker 6: But I don't feel like I'm gonna rush back and
Speaker 6: go and see it again in the way I would
Speaker 6: with some of these films.
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. I liked it for a
Speaker 2: lot of reasons. I think that all the reasons that
Speaker 2: you said. I also think this is kind of new
Speaker 2: territory for a Marvel movie, and so I thought that
Speaker 2: the lack of a traditional third act big dumb fight.
Speaker 1: Was really really frushing.
Speaker 6: I love the way they solved that problem same.
Speaker 2: I liked that it was more connected to like emotions
Speaker 2: and how characters are feeling about where they stand in
Speaker 2: the Marvel continuity. I feel the same as you as
Speaker 2: us agent. You know, I don't like him in the comics.
Speaker 2: I don't like him in the movie. I don't like
Speaker 2: him as a character.
Speaker 1: As a person. I think he's a piece of shit.
Speaker 2: But I do like that he is basically like he
Speaker 2: kind of exists to be, like, how about this piece
Speaker 2: of shit? Like everybody hates him, So that's nice. And
Speaker 2: I thought, same as you, I thought it was really
Speaker 2: well made. I thought it was very fun. I think
Speaker 2: the kind of central emotional generator of can these broken
Speaker 2: people come together and learn to forgive themselves?
Speaker 5: I thought was.
Speaker 2: Really affecting and resonated with me. I understand what you're
Speaker 2: saying about the quote unquote feeling because I think for me,
Speaker 2: you know, like I put on The Infinity War the other.
Speaker 1: Day because like me, these are escape movies.
Speaker 2: For me, I love I love just like falling into
Speaker 2: this world and like watching good Triumph of Evil, and
Speaker 2: so I do think that, like to your point about
Speaker 2: the feeling, it is a different feeling than the kind
Speaker 2: of Marvel movie at its height, you know, of the
Speaker 2: height of the hype, at the height of the success.
Speaker 2: Kind of feeling of this like triumphant, almost like energizing
Speaker 2: theater experience. It's not quite that thing. It's again new
Speaker 2: emotional territory. But I think I.
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 2: It seems maybe more than some others.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's I think it's a big swing,
Speaker 6: and I think the novel is a point where it
Speaker 6: needs to do big swing.
Speaker 2: And I like and I really resonated with the way
Speaker 2: it addressed. This is a movie that addresses both the
Speaker 2: decline quote in air quotes of the franchise. I would
Speaker 2: call it more of a it's more of a more
Speaker 2: of a real more of a like an adjustment. It
Speaker 2: addresses that kind of post euphoria of the post endgame
Speaker 2: like world on multiple ways, both in the way we
Speaker 2: in the real world react to the franchise and also
Speaker 2: how the characters are reacting to this world without heroes.
Speaker 2: I found that to be It's definitely new emotional territory again,
Speaker 2: but I like that kind of like man a commentary
Speaker 2: on we live in a world without heroes, Now, what
Speaker 2: are we going to do? I like the all detail
Speaker 2: of like you have Yolena and like Bucky standing on
Speaker 2: the street in New York City near Grand Central, like
Speaker 2: like where the Avengers.
Speaker 6: Like, Yeah, it's much a recognition of like is this
Speaker 6: a new star in place?
Speaker 2: And people are just walking by them without even looking,
Speaker 2: like this is a world in which now this is normal.
Speaker 2: There is fucking a former Red Room spy and the
Speaker 2: Winter Soldier having an argument in the middle of the street,
Speaker 2: and everybody's like, I gotta go to work, Like I
Speaker 2: get my car out, he destroy it, Like like I liked.
Speaker 2: I liked all of that, so I think I responded
Speaker 2: a little bit more to it than others. But it
Speaker 2: definitely feels like a it's a Connector movie. It's not
Speaker 2: a destination movie. And it's true that Civil War or
Speaker 2: Infinity War, which is more of a Connector movie too.
Speaker 2: I realized that or Endgame was It's it's more of
Speaker 2: a movie to get to the other movies and a
Speaker 2: transitional movie both for these characters and their emotional arcs
Speaker 2: and in the overall plot of the MCU.
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I acknowledge that it's definitely a different feeling.
Speaker 6: But I'm interested because there's like the critical reception has
Speaker 6: been really good so far. Obviously it's early on, but
Speaker 6: we're still in that nineties. I think of the kind
Speaker 6: of big rotten Tomato review score, and also as well, definitely,
Speaker 6: I think it's the highest score that we've had, maybe
Speaker 6: for a MCU movie since pre COVID.
Speaker 5: So I'm interested that let's tap in because me and you.
Speaker 6: Are so engrossed in this stuff day to day, whether
Speaker 6: it's the comics we read, the way we rewatch these movies.
Speaker 6: Let's tap in a Boo and Arra because I would
Speaker 6: just love to know a little bit about, like how
Speaker 6: they responded to the film. Welcome, I'm on super producer
Speaker 6: crew who are now on New Avengers instead of all
Speaker 6: Jedi Council. Let's keep our ip straight. Boo, how did
Speaker 6: you respond to the Thunderbolts?
Speaker 7: I think, Rosie, you articulated what I basically have not
Speaker 7: been able to since I saw it. I thought this
Speaker 7: was a well constructed film. I thought this was a
Speaker 7: better swing at the plate by Marvel than many of
Speaker 7: their recent offerings. Let's say, you know, like this far
Speaker 7: exceeds some of the recent Marvel films and TV shows. Yeah,
Speaker 7: in the last couple of years, certainly since the Infinity Saga.
Speaker 7: But I too walked out of the theater not buzzing.
Speaker 7: Usually I'm walking out of a Marvel movie like buzzing
Speaker 7: and excited to talk to everyone about it and geeking out,
Speaker 7: ready to go home and google all the new lore
Speaker 7: and characters that were introduced, etc.
Speaker 3: Etc.
Speaker 7: I walked out of this film texting Aaron and going fine,
Speaker 7: I had fun, and there wasn't much more of an
Speaker 7: emotional response beyond that. But I don't think that takes
Speaker 7: away from the film being well constructed, as you said,
Speaker 7: being a big swing for Marvel in a different direction,
Speaker 7: which is I think that sort of fresh thinking and
Speaker 7: fresh takes is certainly what the franchise needs and has
Speaker 7: needed for a while. So I'm very much in your camp, Rosie.
Speaker 5: Aaron, how did you feel when you got that text?
Speaker 4: I was shocked because I actually really really enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: I have a very different take on us Agent. I
Speaker 4: hated him and Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and I
Speaker 4: loved him here. It's a very different thing because he's
Speaker 4: not the main character. But it sort of reminded me
Speaker 4: of Thor where the first Thor he's meant to be
Speaker 4: dramatic and have all this gravitas, and then they were like,
Speaker 4: we can use him as a comedic character. And I
Speaker 4: thought the use of us Agent as like the dumb
Speaker 4: bro was great. Him making the joke about his shield
Speaker 4: being a taco him like they're standing in the desert
Speaker 4: and he bends over to get the cat this fruit
Speaker 4: and he's just slicing it up, like giving out life
Speaker 4: advice even though his life sucks. I love that. I
Speaker 4: thought that was all really well done, and I liked
Speaker 4: him a lot, And that is indicative of what this
Speaker 4: movie did, which is make you care about characters who
Speaker 4: were not a list before this. Other than Yolena, who
Speaker 4: was really a supporting character in Black Widow and then
Speaker 4: had a great guest spot in Hawkeye.
Speaker 5: She was the lead.
Speaker 4: But everyone else I thought was lifted so much from
Speaker 4: their previous iterations and I really liked that. And I
Speaker 4: thought Centry was great. The sound design of him zapping
Speaker 4: people out was amazing. His look with like just fully
Speaker 4: dark and then these like bright two small bright eyes
Speaker 4: was really powerful. So I thought it was really good.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's it's not Winter Soldier, it's not
Speaker 4: Black Panther, but this is something that I was reassured
Speaker 4: to know that Marvel can still make a film and
Speaker 4: make you care about the characters, which I think they
Speaker 4: haven't done in a very long time because they've relied
Speaker 4: on the fact that they think you already care about everybody,
Speaker 4: and here they actually made you care about them, which
Speaker 4: I think was really good.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that you also, I think something else
Speaker 6: that's interesting here that is different to say, your quantumnia,
Speaker 6: your multiverse madness. It feels very grounded in reality. They
Speaker 6: have leaned into this idea of we're doing the stunts,
Speaker 6: we're doing practical, we're doing it on sets, you know,
Speaker 6: And I think that you really do feel that in
Speaker 6: a way that feels different to all the rest of
Speaker 6: the post Infinity Saga kind of movies where everything.
Speaker 5: Was I mean Black Widow kind of, but that still
Speaker 5: felt very CG heavy.
Speaker 6: It has some of the most critique CG in the
Speaker 6: MCU sayme with thor Love and Thunder, So I think
Speaker 6: that's another thing. I'm interested to see how it hits,
Speaker 6: because this is what people have.
Speaker 5: Been asking for.
Speaker 6: What does it look like when you have a ragtag,
Speaker 6: smaller group it's in its own way. It's very much
Speaker 6: Marvel doing the Suicide Squad, which I think for me
Speaker 6: didn't immediately hit in the same way because I was
Speaker 6: one of the people who just really loved the James
Speaker 6: Gunn Suicide Squad movie.
Speaker 5: I think it had more of that balance I look for.
Speaker 6: But I did really and I did still think like,
Speaker 6: this is a new space for Marvel and they need
Speaker 6: to be going into new spaces, and that is that's
Speaker 6: that's kind of what we're looking for as Aaron and
Speaker 6: Abou as people who you know, you said, you go
Speaker 6: and like you look at the law, you see this
Speaker 6: google ability. You want to know about the new characters.
Speaker 6: How did the final post credit scene feel for you? Like,
Speaker 6: are you excited for the Fantastic Four? Did it feel
Speaker 6: kind of like a surprise To me? It felt a
Speaker 6: surprise that it was so soon, but I also forgot
Speaker 6: the movie comes out in a few months.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So how did that land for you guys?
Speaker 6: And how did it land for your screening Because my
Speaker 6: screening in the Grip it was very quiet.
Speaker 5: It was not the old really feeling of Yeah, I
Speaker 5: did not have that excited crew. So what was it
Speaker 5: like for you guys.
Speaker 7: Well Erin and I were at the same screening together.
Speaker 7: I feel like Aaron, people were buzzing when the Fantastics Worship,
Speaker 7: like once it was clear that this was the Fantastic
Speaker 7: Worship and that's what we're teasing.
Speaker 2: I should add that I think LA screenings, at least
Speaker 2: the ones I've been to recently, it's a lot of industry.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's not how it used to.
Speaker 6: It's not the same as how it used to be
Speaker 6: where people were like screaming and crying.
Speaker 2: It's not it's like I have a podcast, I read
Speaker 2: about this stuff, or you know, like I write for
Speaker 2: Marvel Comics and I got a comp like it's so
Speaker 2: it's a lot of people who are.
Speaker 1: In the industry.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they did use I feel like we did used
Speaker 6: to have more of a reaction based audience.
Speaker 5: For the MCU.
Speaker 6: But I do think as well in LA, like you say, juston,
Speaker 6: a lot of people might be working on these things,
Speaker 6: might already know what's happening, might have been leaked. But
Speaker 6: I love to hear that it was exciting. Was it
Speaker 6: exciting for you guys? Like do you feel like you
Speaker 6: want to know what happens next?
Speaker 7: I personally do yeah, I actually, uh, Fantastic four I
Speaker 7: did not grow up with and I know very little
Speaker 7: about actually, and so the fact that I that the
Speaker 7: post credits scene got a response out of me is interesting.
Speaker 7: I didn't think I didn't think it would, but I
Speaker 7: was really excited. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm ready,
Speaker 7: I'm ready.
Speaker 4: I think one thing, one thing that Joelle brought up
Speaker 4: earlier was this post credit scene is tied to something
Speaker 4: we know is coming out. This isn't Ted Lasso guy
Speaker 4: as Hercules that we just may never see again.
Speaker 1: It's a Phase one type of step.
Speaker 5: Thor's coming next. So here is Thor's hammer.
Speaker 4: And then whether or not I am like just an
Speaker 4: idiot or what, but you said it, Rosie, so I
Speaker 4: feel good. My first thought was, it's Franklin that it's
Speaker 4: not Fantastic for No, I'm I.
Speaker 6: Think there's a lot of scope for it, and I
Speaker 6: think those are the kind of conversations that we love
Speaker 6: to have about this. So I will say, Jason, what
Speaker 6: is your big kind of like where does this leave
Speaker 6: the MCU, Like what do you think this sets up
Speaker 6: not just the Fantastic four sequence but also the New Avengers,
Speaker 6: Like do we get a New Avengers movie. Are they
Speaker 6: just one of many teams? What do you think this sets.
Speaker 2: I think I think this sets up as we head
Speaker 2: into Doomsday. I think this sets up a continuity where
Speaker 2: there are lots of hero groups, but they're kind of fragmented.
Speaker 2: It feels like a kind of soft adaptation of the
Speaker 2: Dark Rain continuity, in which Norman Osborne took you know,
Speaker 2: at the head of a Avengers, an evil Avengers team
Speaker 2: basically takes control of, you know, the United States Defense establishment,
Speaker 2: but with Valentina in that role, and the New Avengers
Speaker 2: is kind of her dupe. So I think what we're
Speaker 2: going to what we're going to see is a lot
Speaker 2: of infighting as we head into doomsday. Yeah, a kind
Speaker 2: of like larger version of the Act two and three
Speaker 2: of your typical superhero team up movie, in which most
Speaker 2: of the fights are the superheroes fighting each other before
Speaker 2: they decide, oh, we got to fight the bad guy exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that too.
Speaker 6: I think that I think this establishes a world where
Speaker 6: there's going to be multiple Avengers teams. I think we
Speaker 6: will get our Young Avengers, our West Coast Avengers.
Speaker 5: Maybe they're the same. We could have a Mighty Avengers.
Speaker 6: We could have an a force where it's the all
Speaker 6: female Avengers.
Speaker 5: Do I think all of them will get their own
Speaker 5: movie or their own moment?
Speaker 6: No, not particularly, but I do think that we'll get
Speaker 6: to see these teams kind of popping up in what
Speaker 6: is essentially a power void, and I think all of
Speaker 6: them will come in to play with Doomsday, creating you know,
Speaker 6: some battle world situation where they're fighting each other, or
Speaker 6: where they all have to team up to fight against
Speaker 6: Victvan Doom. I think that is a very fun place
Speaker 6: to be, very comic bookie place to be.
Speaker 5: Aaron and Abou, how.
Speaker 6: Did the New Avengers kind of title shift hit for you?
Speaker 6: Because obviously for me and Jason, we're immediately like, oh shit,
Speaker 6: like the Brian bendis new Avengers, Like this is such
Speaker 6: a big deal, Like this isn't really the team, but
Speaker 6: how could it work?
Speaker 5: Did that feel like a huge.
Speaker 6: Moment when we're talking about Avengers because we haven't heard
Speaker 6: that phrase actually used again since the original team?
Speaker 5: Like how did that feel for you? Guys?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I really liked it, And in a way, I kind
Speaker 4: of think if if I had a friend, hypothetically who
Speaker 4: had not watched anything since Endgame and was like, oh,
Speaker 4: I heard there's there's gonna be some more Avengers movies,
Speaker 4: Like this is a great place to start, Like, come
Speaker 4: in here, people, you missed it such stuff, you could
Speaker 4: just jump in here.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if they've marketed it that way enough,
Speaker 4: because I think that there's obviously been fatigue and and
Speaker 4: things have not gone as well with some of the
Speaker 4: previous movies. So if someone didn't enjoy those or didn't
Speaker 4: see them or saw how bad stuff was getting reviewed,
Speaker 4: this would be a great one for them to watch
Speaker 4: and be like, oh yeah, I like a good superhero
Speaker 4: action movie. This one's a little different, like you were saying.
Speaker 4: It's not a third act cgi punch fest like it is.
Speaker 4: It is like in a good way, the power of
Speaker 4: friendship wins the day, and this would be a great thing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: this would be great. Watch this, then you'll get excited
Speaker 4: for Fantastic four or go see that and then go watch.
Speaker 5: I like that take.
Speaker 6: I think you're onto something. Boo, how did how did
Speaker 6: the New Avengers sing hit for you?
Speaker 5: Were you like okay, I want to know more about
Speaker 5: this team, or like that's random.
Speaker 7: No, I really liked it as well. That that was
Speaker 7: one of the things where I was googling New Avengers
Speaker 7: on my way out of the theater. You know that
Speaker 7: that was an example of a New Lord tidbit or
Speaker 7: a comic series that I have not read that I
Speaker 7: now want to because this movie has introduced it to me.
Speaker 7: Although I will say I wasn't surprised by the reveal,
Speaker 7: and I was like, how do I know this? Did
Speaker 7: I read a spoiler or a leak somewhere?
Speaker 6: They actually they actually kept this spoiler out of it.
Speaker 5: But I do believe me and Jason, I think specifically,
Speaker 5: and I think we can read right right now.
Speaker 6: Because we I think we were saying New Avengers or
Speaker 6: Dark Avengers were kind of all take And I will
Speaker 6: say something I thought they did really well. I thought
Speaker 6: that moment in particular, showcased how clever Valentina is and
Speaker 6: how she's kind of this like, she's kind of this
Speaker 6: mirror Tony Stock. It's like, what if Tony Stock was
Speaker 6: just always scheming? Well, if he actually like hadn't changed
Speaker 6: for the better and was instead always manipulating and skiming.
Speaker 4: So they did a great job of mirroring a lot
Speaker 4: of previous Marvel things. So Tony announces he's iron Man
Speaker 4: off the Cup at a press conference. Valentina has planned
Speaker 4: and plotted this out similarly like the fight that is
Speaker 4: happening right there by Grand Central in Avengers Tower is
Speaker 4: Avengers One, Like, there's so much in it that I
Speaker 4: thought they did these nice callbacks to which also you
Speaker 4: know you're gonna get compared to it, but I thought
Speaker 4: they stood up pretty well well.
Speaker 7: I thought I thought one of the most beautiful shots
Speaker 7: in the movie was right at the start where Elena
Speaker 7: gets her own hallway scene much like your sister yeah away.
Speaker 7: I thought that was a really beautiful tracking shot from above.
Speaker 5: You also as well great because it's very old boy.
Speaker 5: It's very referential to Dad Evil. It's very much about
Speaker 5: how getting her and scene and we kind of see
Speaker 5: in the shadows, faw.
Speaker 6: In the shadows and we get to see how far
Speaker 6: the MCU has come. Because that is a very incredible scene.
Speaker 6: But it's also very notorious because it's clas like giant
Speaker 6: big boob like the boobs a jiggle in the wig
Speaker 6: is wigging like it's very much like she's so sexy
Speaker 6: she could kill you but wouldn't you want her to.
Speaker 6: That was the original kind of introduction of Black Widow.
Speaker 6: This shows Elena just.
Speaker 5: Does a force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 2: I will be two things that I want to call out. One,
Speaker 2: I will be interested to see where they go with
Speaker 2: Valentina from here. She's like, it's clear that the idea
Speaker 2: is like combine the worst parts of Stark and nick
Speaker 2: Fury into an even more secretive and a moral kind
Speaker 2: of spymaster behind the heroes.
Speaker 1: Eager to see if.
Speaker 2: She steps meaningfully either way into the good guy or
Speaker 2: bad guy mode going forward.
Speaker 1: That will be interesting to see and task master.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I wish that was a little bit more
Speaker 2: send off. I think Elena does a lot in honoring
Speaker 2: her after her ignominious and very quick death at the
Speaker 2: hands of ghosts, but I do wish there would have
Speaker 2: been a little bit more like that's one of the
Speaker 2: more tragic characters in the in the MCU, definitely, Black
Speaker 2: Widow is definitely the lead in movie to this movie.
Speaker 2: Like that's if you were going to watch one thing
Speaker 2: heading into this and you didn't want it to be
Speaker 2: Falcon in the Winter.
Speaker 1: Which is fair, but it should be Black Widow.
Speaker 7: Yes, absolutely, that's the homework movie. I want. I did
Speaker 7: want to ask the group, this is a very funny movie,
Speaker 7: what was what was your most laugh aulloud moment? Because
Speaker 7: for me, it was when Bucky gave his business card assist.
Speaker 1: Trash.
Speaker 6: That was. I will say the comedy was really good.
Speaker 6: I definitely, I definitely liked that aspect of it. I
Speaker 6: think for me it was like I was not a
Speaker 6: big Red Guardian fan.
Speaker 5: In Black Widow.
Speaker 6: I felt like it was like too much of a
Speaker 6: kind of outrageous sort of like Tropy version. But I
Speaker 6: felt like in this they really grounded him. Harbor did
Speaker 6: some great work, and I think I just like the
Speaker 6: kind of silliness of how into making the team he was.
Speaker 6: And I think my biggest laugh outline scene, because this
Speaker 6: is just the classic me kind of thing, is like
Speaker 6: at the end in the post credit scene where they
Speaker 6: reveal that you know they're being sued by Sam and
Speaker 6: he's like, he's he's gonna make it Avengers with a Z.
Speaker 1: I was dying.
Speaker 6: I have often talked about how I want to make
Speaker 6: like an Avengers team that has a Z at the end,
Speaker 6: and that would be my pitch to me.
Speaker 5: He should have just gotten I think I think the Bootleg.
Speaker 6: I think those kind of jokes where it's understanding the
Speaker 6: fandom and income versation with all of us who watch it.
Speaker 6: I think that's why the mc U succeeds best. And
Speaker 6: I thought that stuff was really funny. I also just
Speaker 6: loved seeing Ghost and Yolena gang up on us agent.
Speaker 5: It was so natural and.
Speaker 6: So and they had a lot of really great, witty
Speaker 6: kind of buns.
Speaker 4: I thought that all climbing up the tower the Elevator show, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so that was gonna be mine. But I'll call
Speaker 2: it another one. When they're in the panel van heading
Speaker 2: to New Avengers Tower and they're talking about their weapons
Speaker 2: and Lana is like, yeah, I got these stingers. I'm
Speaker 2: using these black little stingers.
Speaker 1: And then you just like I got the forty five.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, long.
Speaker 5: So roasting them that was great.
Speaker 2: And then you know what in the Stigger, when they're
Speaker 2: all coming in from what I guess is a mission
Speaker 2: or something, and they're like, you know, space crisis would
Speaker 2: have been eight if we could have had Century to like,
Speaker 2: how are we gonna like go into space?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: And then Red Guardian is like, well, why can't Century
Speaker 2: ever come with us?
Speaker 1: And then they're like, how would we go with it?
Speaker 5: We would all yes, yeah, and then and then.
Speaker 2: Bob has that great return where he's like, higas I
Speaker 2: thought we talked about this, like I can't be the
Speaker 2: century without the other guy. The other guy coming out
Speaker 2: like that would so like, but I can stay here,
Speaker 2: and like you.
Speaker 6: And I did the dishes, I have to say, like
Speaker 6: Lewis Pullman, the man that you are, because that ship
Speaker 6: was written for Steve and you had and I could
Speaker 6: hear every single line delivery, but you made it your own.
Speaker 6: And that was another of my favorite moments. Jathon as
Speaker 6: the new Avengers, like Hulk the Titan who you can't
Speaker 6: really trust, like in a pinch, I think that.
Speaker 1: I think that's interesting.
Speaker 5: Territory.
Speaker 2: Well, it's been wonderful to talk to you guys about this.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, we are the Avengers with the Z
Speaker 5: that's this, this we are. I think we got to
Speaker 5: put Tuesday jam Wow, that's us, guys.
Speaker 1: In the next few episodes of Extra Vision.
Speaker 2: On Tuesday, we have our reaction to the Last of
Speaker 2: Us episode four, and we returned to the world of
Speaker 2: and Or with our recap on Wednesday, and our and
Speaker 2: Or roundtable for episode seven eight nine of season two
Speaker 2: on Friday.
Speaker 1: That's It for this episode.
Speaker 2: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Spci and Rosie
Speaker 2: Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 6: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kolefman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 6: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wag.
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 6: Special thanks to Saul Rubin, Christ Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 6: Heidie Are Discord Moderator m
Speaker 7: HM