Speaker 1: On Easter Sunday nineteen ninety three, inmates at Lucasville Prison
Speaker 1: in Ohio took control of an entire cell block. The
Speaker 1: crisis that became known as the Lucasville Prison Riot lasted
Speaker 1: eleven days and claimed ten lives, including one of the
Speaker 1: prison guards. When the cell block was finally surrendered, an
Speaker 1: investigation ensued aimed at bringing the riot leadership to justice.
Speaker 1: After several rounds of interviews, five names emerged, including a
Speaker 1: man who lived on that cell block named Keith Lamar Now.
Speaker 1: According to the state, Keith had allegedly commanded a team
Speaker 1: of men who murdered four supposed snitches before heading out
Speaker 1: to the prison yard, where the authorities ushered all the
Speaker 1: inmates into another block that was still under state controlled. Then,
Speaker 1: while confined in a cell with nine other men, he
Speaker 1: allegedly ordered one more death. The other inmates weren't telling
Speaker 1: this particular story in their initial interviews, but by the
Speaker 1: time of Keith's Capitol trial, they were all somehow singing
Speaker 1: the same tune and that had to count for something.
Speaker 1: But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction.
Speaker 1: Today's guest is somebody I've been waiting for for a
Speaker 1: long time. His story. As terrifying as it is, it's
Speaker 1: also the stuff of legend because this is a man
Speaker 1: and Keith, I'm talking about you. I'm talking about you
Speaker 1: in the third person. I'm going to talk directly to you. Now, Keith,
Speaker 1: do you have had a life that if somebody wrote
Speaker 1: it into a movie nobody would believe it? And this
Speaker 1: is a guy. Now I'm back to talking about the
Speaker 1: third person who has performed concerts all over the world
Speaker 1: from inside of your cell on death Throw.
Speaker 2: It sounds bizarre when I hear you say it, you know,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's been It's been a hell of a
Speaker 2: journey man to say, at least in this situation that
Speaker 2: I'm currently facing, has only focus me more all trying
Speaker 2: to get as much life out of my life as
Speaker 2: I possibly can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, despite fighting for your very life from
Speaker 1: death row, which is literally hell on Earth, your pursuit
Speaker 1: of art and life seems to have only gotten stronger.
Speaker 1: And like I just mentioned, you've put on this spoken
Speaker 1: word and jazz concert series called Freedom First. And if
Speaker 1: that wasn't enough, you also put out an album by
Speaker 1: the same name. But there's even more, you know, there's.
Speaker 2: Books, documentaries, book clubs, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2: I'll just wake up and try to do as much
Speaker 2: as I can with the time that I have, you know,
Speaker 2: which is what we all should be.
Speaker 1: Going, right Yeah. I mean I don't even know a
Speaker 1: lot of people out here in the free world who
Speaker 1: are living as much as you are inside the literal
Speaker 1: living hell of Ohio Death Row. And we're going to
Speaker 1: get into all of that in more detail later on,
Speaker 1: and we're also going to be hearing from one of
Speaker 1: your attorneys, Keegan Stefan, as well. But now I just
Speaker 1: want to turn around first and start from the beginning
Speaker 1: of your life. You were born and grew up in Cleveland, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen sixty nine on the east
Speaker 2: side of Cleveland, Ohio, in a small little enc clave
Speaker 2: called the Village. You know that I was saying in
Speaker 2: case of village, I think the people who founded this
Speaker 2: little place took that seriously. My grandfather, Harry Lamar, brought
Speaker 2: his own home in this little enc clave. It was
Speaker 2: made up of people who were in one form or
Speaker 2: another related and you know, during dinner time, you can
Speaker 2: walk into any number of houses and you know, people
Speaker 2: will let you sit down and eat dinner, where there
Speaker 2: was no distinction about the economic status because everybody was
Speaker 2: pretty much on the same level. And that's where I
Speaker 2: really grew up at from a baby until I was
Speaker 2: around seven or eight, and my mother met and married
Speaker 2: a man named Larry Morris, and shortly thereafter we moved
Speaker 2: out of the village into the inner city.
Speaker 1: Basically, I mean, the village sounds pretty amazing. It seems
Speaker 1: like an odd choice to leave. What were the circumstances.
Speaker 2: Well, my grandmother, she was to make sure of our
Speaker 2: other family, pretty much said what went and what didn't
Speaker 2: go in our family. And my stepfather didn't like that,
Speaker 2: and so he moved so he can kind of run
Speaker 2: his own household. But he was a side or the
Speaker 2: steff at a country club, working for me good wages.
Speaker 2: And so that was the first time my life and
Speaker 2: I ever remember being home grey and sometimes, you know,
Speaker 2: the lights would be off, the gas would be off,
Speaker 2: and we had to heat the house with you know,
Speaker 2: keeping the oven door open and whatnot, and we weren't
Speaker 2: allowed to tell my grandparents about this. It all kind
Speaker 2: of happened between nine and twelve years old, and that
Speaker 2: is where I kind of marked the change in my life,
Speaker 2: becoming aware of the poverty. You know, you go to
Speaker 2: school to learn an arithmetic but so your peers teach
Speaker 2: you other things we couldn't afford. Polo and guest cheane
Speaker 2: and all these different things that meant so much to
Speaker 2: my peers.
Speaker 1: So I take it you wanted to fit in. What
Speaker 1: did you do to make that happen or to try
Speaker 1: to make that happen?
Speaker 2: I worked. I had two paper routes, cutting grass, shoveling snow,
Speaker 2: you know did all those things? You know of pants
Speaker 2: might cost fifty sixty dollars. And this is before Eric
Speaker 2: Jordan came out potennis. Shoot. It was just out of
Speaker 2: my range as a kid trying to do it a
Speaker 2: legitimate way. And you know kids are brutal. Man. You know,
Speaker 2: you show up with some knockoff Jordia's jeans and you
Speaker 2: mass well came to school. But Neckett, you know, the
Speaker 2: ridicule was severe. It's all autitary bullshit. But you don't
Speaker 2: know that when you were a kid. And my brother,
Speaker 2: when I was saying, who was twelve, he was hanging
Speaker 2: out with all the kids, and you know he had
Speaker 2: undergone the same ridicule as I did, and had quickly
Speaker 2: opt to become a thief once I just made the
Speaker 2: decision to become a thief myself. He you know, kind
Speaker 2: of showed me how to go about stealing clothes and
Speaker 2: how to you know, remove the alarms from the jeans
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. But then, you know, the reward
Speaker 2: of coming walking into the school building with some Jordas's
Speaker 2: jeans and a Polo shirt, The reception that I received
Speaker 2: from my peers. I mean, all of a sudden, girls
Speaker 2: who wouldn't speak to me a year ago are putting
Speaker 2: notes in my locker, and I think I got addicted
Speaker 2: to that, and so that ultimately became my life. And
Speaker 2: started hanging with a group of older kids in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: And these were the guys that your older brother was
Speaker 1: friends with.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was a couple of guys like legends
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood that lived in Joe Butler, Joe Bruce,
Speaker 2: Daryl Daniels. I was thirteen by then, and they were
Speaker 2: like fifteen, sixteen years old. And my older brother, Nelson
Speaker 2: what he had already been sent Toby to juvenile and
Speaker 2: so I was pretty much by myself and I fell
Speaker 2: in with these guys one day and we all piled
Speaker 2: into a stolen car and we was going to drive
Speaker 2: out to the adjacent suburb. As soon as we crossed
Speaker 2: over and to Sacred Heights, a police officers got right
Speaker 2: behind us, and we were in this high speed chase,
Speaker 2: like on eighty miles an hour, were down a residential district.
Speaker 2: And I was actually relieved when I got caught, like,
Speaker 2: thank god, you know, because this was extreme situation for
Speaker 2: me in my life. And we went before this judge
Speaker 2: and he lined us all up, was about six of
Speaker 2: us altogether in our families, and he went down the
Speaker 2: line and he was giving guy six months for each
Speaker 2: offense that they had. And he said, Joe Bruce, this
Speaker 2: your third time in front of me eighteen months. Joe Butler,
Speaker 2: this your second time a year, you know. And he
Speaker 2: got down to me. He said, Keith Lamar said, what
Speaker 2: are you doing hanging with these bad boys? Now? You know,
Speaker 2: try to look big and you know, hang my head
Speaker 2: and hunch my shoulders, you know. And he gave my
Speaker 2: mother and my parents to oper me say, I tell
Speaker 2: you what I'm gonna do. Parents, you need to take
Speaker 2: them home and deal with them while I deal with them.
Speaker 2: And you know, stepfather told him, you deal with them,
Speaker 2: and fifteen minutes later I was sitting in the jail cell.
Speaker 1: So given the choice, your stepfather effectively threw you away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because to him, my brother and I we were
Speaker 2: just two extra miles to see.
Speaker 1: And your mother didn't have anything to say about that.
Speaker 2: You know, deally, that's what you would have hoped for
Speaker 2: somebody to intervene. But she she had already been broken
Speaker 2: to the point where she accepted somebody like this as
Speaker 2: her husband. You know, any man is better than no man,
Speaker 2: and as it turns out, he was. He was like
Speaker 2: a monster. He was, you know, the very abusive.
Speaker 1: So now you're going from the boiling pot into the
Speaker 1: sizzling frying pan, so to speak. How long was your
Speaker 1: stint in Juvie?
Speaker 2: Six months? But I was thirteen, so it felt like
Speaker 2: six years, believing or not compared the situation I lived
Speaker 2: and wasn't so bad. I had pre square meals a day.
Speaker 2: I was n a structured environment. I came out of it.
Speaker 2: I was on a on a roll in terms of
Speaker 2: my academic portion.
Speaker 1: Of my life, and who knows, maybe you could have
Speaker 1: kept going in that direction. Had you returned to a
Speaker 1: more stable, you know, home in life.
Speaker 2: When I when I came home, I came home, my
Speaker 2: parents had moved into a two bedroom apartment, as if
Speaker 2: my brother and I had went off through the army
Speaker 2: or something that we weren't coming back home, and so
Speaker 2: we moved up into this uninsulated attic. Was freezing cold
Speaker 2: and the winter squorching hot in the summer, and we
Speaker 2: were pretty much put on notice that we were on
Speaker 2: our own, beyond our bear necessities, that we would not
Speaker 2: be provided for. And I was thirteen still when I
Speaker 2: came home, I think I'm gonna have to start selling marijuana.
Speaker 3: Weed.
Speaker 2: I bought two ounces of marijuana and I didn't look back. Man,
Speaker 2: that was the beginning of the infamy.
Speaker 1: Yah, what about your brother?
Speaker 2: My brother had found the means of escape. He met
Speaker 2: this girl named Paula who lives in the suburbs, and
Speaker 2: her mother took a liking to my brother and allow
Speaker 2: him to move in with them. And he was going
Speaker 2: to school in suburbs. So it's me basically by myself.
Speaker 2: Now I'm fourteen years old, I'm selling marijuana. I'm so
Speaker 2: serious about it too, because I figured this is my
Speaker 2: only way out, and I became very good at that.
Speaker 2: I had about five or six guys working for me
Speaker 2: and everything, young guys fourteen thirteen years old, selling real
Speaker 2: I'm on the street corners and whatnot. And I came
Speaker 2: home one day and discovered that my stepfather had been
Speaker 2: up in my room and had found one of my
Speaker 2: statues of money. I bought me a safe, and not
Speaker 2: long after that, my stepfather kicked me out. I was
Speaker 2: fifteen years old and I moved into the projects. This
Speaker 2: was an apartment where we were selling drugs out of there.
Speaker 2: And this was around eighty five eighty six, right around
Speaker 2: the time crack cocaine started trickling into the ghetto. Nobody
Speaker 2: really knew what it was, how dangerous it was.
Speaker 1: So at the time it just seemed like an easy
Speaker 1: way to make money. The profit margins are better than
Speaker 1: they are with weed, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, but the danger increases too. And at
Speaker 2: first everything was cope, said it. I was snorting cocaine
Speaker 2: by the time I was sixteen. I had a Mercedes
Speaker 2: Benz Cadillac, driving Porsches, BMW Rolex watches, but around a
Speaker 2: year or two, about nineteen eighty eight, was like the
Speaker 2: height of the epidemic, and all the detrimental effects of
Speaker 2: crack cocaine really started to become clear. The communities were
Speaker 2: being decimated by this drug, and guys I grew up
Speaker 2: with were becoming dope fiends, and young women were selling
Speaker 2: their bodies, and it was just a real horrifying period
Speaker 2: to live through.
Speaker 1: As a crack epidemic were on, the community became increasingly desperate,
Speaker 1: affecting even Keith's childhood friend, Kenyada Collins.
Speaker 2: You know, he and I grew up together. We used
Speaker 2: to walk to school together, played basketball together. By the
Speaker 2: time nineteen eighty eight rolled around, he was, you know,
Speaker 2: hooked on a crack cocaine pretty significantly and had fell
Speaker 2: in with a group of guys called stick up kids,
Speaker 2: you know that used to go around robbing drug deal
Speaker 2: and so I became one of the targets.
Speaker 1: And on December second, nineteen eighty eight, Keith was at
Speaker 1: the apartment that served as the base of his drug
Speaker 1: operation when Kenyata and the stick Up Kids showed up.
Speaker 2: Now back in the back bedrooms counting money, and I
Speaker 2: heard commotion in the front. I come to the front
Speaker 2: of the door and guys were forcing their way into
Speaker 2: the apartment. You know, I had the gun in my hand.
Speaker 2: I was shot twice, myself in the legs, you know.
Speaker 2: I shot a king out of twice as he came
Speaker 2: through the door. I woke up in the hospital and
Speaker 2: I was right next to the king out of college.
Speaker 2: I heard the doctors when they pronounced him then said no,
Speaker 2: he's not gonna he's not going to make it. And
Speaker 2: you know, I woke up again and I was changed
Speaker 2: to hospital big, you know. And so it was gradually
Speaker 2: that it began to dine on me the magnitude or
Speaker 2: normalcy of what had occurred. Even once I was able
Speaker 2: to walk again, I went to the county jail and
Speaker 2: I bombed out. Got an attorney.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not a legal opinion, but your
Speaker 1: actions in this incident sure sound like self defense and
Speaker 1: the purest sense of the word.
Speaker 2: But I didn't have access to the old self defense
Speaker 2: now because I was selling drugs. My hands weren't playing right.
Speaker 1: So what was your attorney's plan.
Speaker 2: This attorney was a friend of a family, and I
Speaker 2: gave him like ten thousand cash. I gave him a
Speaker 2: Mercedes Benz And nineteen eighty three is savy cavalier. So
Speaker 2: I gave him two cars in cash to represent me,
Speaker 2: and he came to me on the evil trial with
Speaker 2: this scear tactic and told me, you know that they
Speaker 2: were going to try to put me on death row.
Speaker 2: And I was eighteen nineteen years old at the time,
Speaker 2: and since I was so ignorant out the law, I
Speaker 2: didn't know how to hold some to account, and I
Speaker 2: played guilty. You know, he convinced me that that was
Speaker 2: in my benefit to do that, and I didn't find
Speaker 2: out a letter on that he himself was strung out
Speaker 2: on cocaine at the time.
Speaker 1: It's not ironic enough that you ended up giving the
Speaker 1: proceeds of your successful drug operation to an attorney who
Speaker 1: was one of the consumers of those same drugs, who
Speaker 1: then ended up selling you more or less down the river.
Speaker 2: You know. The thing that I didn't know that I
Speaker 2: know now that they elevate could climb in order to
Speaker 2: entice you to take in the deal. I played guilty
Speaker 2: to murder. It really should have been mass you know,
Speaker 2: out in the state of defending myself, no four thought
Speaker 2: of malice or anything when in two it's oba's manslaughter.
Speaker 2: But I topped out to murder. It gave me eighteen
Speaker 2: years of life in that and I remember to just saying,
Speaker 2: you know, don't worry about his son. It's it's only
Speaker 2: twelve years six months to the pro boy, you know.
Speaker 2: And I was nineteen at the time. But of course
Speaker 2: he didn't tell me about the danger I was waiting into.
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Speaker 1: We don't write people off.
Speaker 2: They said, meet at Lebanon, Ohio's first I lived in
Speaker 2: counter of racism that I have. You know, the in
Speaker 2: word You heard it constantly around the clock in where
Speaker 2: there is in word, And I'm talking about by staff,
Speaker 2: not just by the prisoners. And it was predominantly white
Speaker 2: guards and predominantly white prisoners down in this place. You know,
Speaker 2: Black people from Inner City were the minority, and everybody
Speaker 2: was hopped up on these weights, the steroids. And after
Speaker 2: hearing all these war stories and young guys like me
Speaker 2: being raped, you know, I kind of fixed my mind
Speaker 2: that that wouldn't happen to me. Now, I didn't know
Speaker 2: how I would prevent that from happening to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that it's not uncommon for people to
Speaker 1: join a prison gang for protection.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was three gangs, the Black Age Disciples sending
Speaker 2: Muslims although they don't consider themselves a gang, and the
Speaker 2: Aaron Brotherhoods, three major factions that kind of control the resources,
Speaker 2: the media resources inside the prison. Since we were down
Speaker 2: in southern Ohio, the Aaron Brotherhood were being armed by
Speaker 2: the guards who worked there, some of whom were in
Speaker 2: the Aaron Brotherhood. They had swashackles on their necks and
Speaker 2: all of this, and brotherhood they had real nice not
Speaker 2: the makeshift nine the shanks that you see on television,
Speaker 2: all kinds of things that were being brought in by
Speaker 2: the guards.
Speaker 1: But you didn't join the Sunni Muslims or the Black
Speaker 1: Gangster Disciples, right, Oh.
Speaker 2: You presume I wasn't in the area and brotherhood but forgot.
Speaker 1: How rude of me? Not that I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 1: their invite got lost somehow.
Speaker 2: I never got an invite. But the first thing I
Speaker 2: did when I came to Leven I joined the boxing team.
Speaker 2: That was, you know, one of the best things I
Speaker 2: could have done. You know, once twice a year you
Speaker 2: have a boxing match in front of the whole prison.
Speaker 2: You can show everybody what you made of and people
Speaker 2: can perform the opinion after that as to whether or
Speaker 2: not you are an easy game or whatever. You know.
Speaker 2: But I got my GDD and then they rolling into
Speaker 2: the college program. So I was on the trajectory in
Speaker 2: terms of preparing myself for this this parole.
Speaker 1: Date and staying out of a prison gang was part
Speaker 1: of that plan, which continued after was transferred from Lebanon
Speaker 1: to Lucasville in nineteen ninety one, which was arguably a
Speaker 1: more difficult and violent situation because of a truly tragic
Speaker 1: incident involving an adult education teacher who worked at the prison.
Speaker 2: Beverly Taylor was a name, and she was murdered by
Speaker 2: a black prisoner for nineteen ninety calls for the guy
Speaker 2: to be executed or being put forth by the community,
Speaker 2: but the guy was mentally handicapped and was deemed ineligible
Speaker 2: for the death journality, so they didn't get what they wanted,
Speaker 2: and so ultimately a new warden was appointed, a guy
Speaker 2: they author take I think around ninety ninety one. And
Speaker 2: so after Kate instituted this thing called Operations Shakedown, and
Speaker 2: he started kind of turning the grooves, tightening up on everything.
Speaker 2: You know, you have to have your shirt tucked in
Speaker 2: at all times. She got to walk on the right
Speaker 2: side of the hallway. It was more or less like
Speaker 2: a military camp down, you know, something that happened overnight.
Speaker 2: He set up this po box. He wanted to drop
Speaker 2: the dime on somebody who wanted to become a snisch.
Speaker 2: You just put in an anonymous note in the mailbox
Speaker 2: on your way to chow and he would act on it.
Speaker 2: So it was a very contentious environment, all the various
Speaker 2: factions for being pitted against each other, and you can
Speaker 2: kind of cut the tension with it nice.
Speaker 1: And there was one incident in particular that kind of
Speaker 1: pushed the whole thing over the edge.
Speaker 2: They came up with this berclosis test and apparently had
Speaker 2: an alcoholic ssson called Feno that the Muslims are stringously
Speaker 2: objected to, and the warden Tate gave him also amazing,
Speaker 2: you either take the tests or we're going to make
Speaker 2: you take it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: They took advantage of the two days that they had
Speaker 2: been given to formulate this plan, you know, April eleventh
Speaker 2: they carried it out.
Speaker 1: So April eleventh, nineteen ninety three was Easter Sunday and
Speaker 1: Warden Tate planned unforcibly injecting the Sunni Muslim population on Monday,
Speaker 1: April twelfth. So the Sunies devised a plan control of
Speaker 1: an entire cell block by taking advantage of the skeleton
Speaker 1: crew that worked on the holidays. When the staff of
Speaker 1: prison guards would go from around one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: strong down to only eighty. Now to give you a
Speaker 1: lay of the land, Lucasville Prison sprawled out in four
Speaker 1: directions like a wheel with four spokes. One spoken compass, maintenance,
Speaker 1: the hospital and dining hall. Walking from there toward the center,
Speaker 1: you'd meet up with the other three spokes. J Block
Speaker 1: to the right, Kate to the left, and L block
Speaker 1: straight ahead. Now, K and L both consisted of a
Speaker 1: long hallway with a jim at the end and eight
Speaker 1: wings to the sides, L one, L two, and so on.
Speaker 1: Keith lived in L six. It was about three pm
Speaker 1: when Keith and the other prisoners were in the yard
Speaker 1: between K and L block when the Sunni Muslims saw
Speaker 1: their chance and struck.
Speaker 2: Recreation was just about to end. They called over to
Speaker 2: intercomm ten minute warning for everybody to start lining up
Speaker 2: to come back inside the prison. And while we were
Speaker 2: standing in line, and a guard ran out with blood
Speaker 2: streaming down his space, and he was followed by masks
Speaker 2: and make caring the night stick and saying we're taking over,
Speaker 2: We're taking over. You know, I'll never forget it. It
Speaker 2: was so real because you immediately know Oh shit, this
Speaker 2: is serious. You know whoever this person is with this
Speaker 2: mask and they gonna kill him because you can't see
Speaker 2: insign You don't know that it's the whole semi Muslim organization.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that's then earned sidewalk and it was
Speaker 2: just around thirty minutes or so that took over the
Speaker 2: whole L side of.
Speaker 1: The prison and they later barricaded themselves into L Block
Speaker 1: and held it for eleven days. But at this point
Speaker 1: Keith was still out on the yard and had no
Speaker 1: idea what was going on or what was to come.
Speaker 2: News started to circle out that they were, you know,
Speaker 2: ramsacking the cells and everything. What was actually happened, They
Speaker 2: was going from sale to sale, accumulating food, telling people
Speaker 2: that they had to donate whatever food stuff that they
Speaker 2: had so they can administer it during the ensuing days.
Speaker 2: That reached us on the yard was that they was
Speaker 2: robbing the seals, and so I wanted to go in
Speaker 2: and secure my property. But I didn't know it was
Speaker 2: a life of death situation. I thought it was just
Speaker 2: a situation where some guys that got a hold of
Speaker 2: some keys and non sales were being rummish through and
Speaker 2: so it was with that misinformation that I, I guess
Speaker 2: my better judgment, decided to go inside and check on
Speaker 2: my personal belongings.
Speaker 1: And this decision to go inside L block was how
Speaker 1: eventually Keith's name got dragged into what happened on L sex.
Speaker 2: When I went in, I kind of immediately understood that,
Speaker 2: you know, this is something more involved than just one
Speaker 2: prisoner attacking the guard, because they were breaking windows, fire
Speaker 2: alarms was going off. I mean, it was pandemonium, and
Speaker 2: you know, I made my way to my I signed
Speaker 2: the sale block L six, and contrast to the chaos
Speaker 2: that was going on in the corridors, it was very
Speaker 2: very quiet. You know, guards were already locked into the
Speaker 2: shower stalls, and there was different prisoners inside of the
Speaker 2: seals who I later learned were hostages, but I didn't
Speaker 2: know that at the time I came in, and not
Speaker 2: really understand I ran down to my sale and there
Speaker 2: was a person inside of my cell, and so instinctively
Speaker 2: I ran up to the control panel trying to unlock
Speaker 2: my door so I can get this person out of
Speaker 2: my cell, because as far as I was serned, that confirmed,
Speaker 2: but I already kind of figured that somebody was rifling
Speaker 2: through my things, but you know he was a hostage.
Speaker 2: I went up to the control panel and was turning
Speaker 2: the knobs randomly, you know, not really understanding how to
Speaker 2: work the panel, and opened up a few other doors invertedly,
Speaker 2: and you know that alerted to someding Mostlims who were
Speaker 2: inside the part, and they accostant me and told me,
Speaker 2: you know know on certain terms that you know this
Speaker 2: is what's going on. You the Willers, or you get
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. And you know, I chose
Speaker 2: to leave. I left and came back out into the yard.
Speaker 1: Keith was ultimately accused of killing four men during his
Speaker 1: short trip inside of all block. The hostages being held
Speaker 1: on L six who, according to the state, or snitches.
Speaker 1: At this point, I want to bring in one of
Speaker 1: the attorneys representing Keith. He's an associate at Bell doc
Speaker 1: Lebine and Hoffman. Keegan Stephan. Welcome to the show. Thank
Speaker 1: you so, Keegan. The state's narrative of what happened on
Speaker 1: that awful easter Sunday in nineteen ninety three obviously diverges
Speaker 1: from Keith's version of events, but let's start with where
Speaker 1: they are the same.
Speaker 3: You know, Keith was not in L six when the
Speaker 3: riot started, even by the states theory and narrative of events. Second,
Speaker 3: you know, this riot was very deliberately planned by a
Speaker 3: group of people that Keith was not a part of.
Speaker 3: And again the state concedes that, which seems like a
Speaker 3: very important point.
Speaker 1: Right, But now the state disagrees with what we've already
Speaker 1: heard from Keith.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's where their story is diverge. Keith goes
Speaker 3: in to get his belongings and leaves. That is what
Speaker 3: numerous alibi witnesses say. The state says that he goes
Speaker 3: in and then forms a death squad and executes the
Speaker 3: people that have been locked in their cells.
Speaker 1: And this death squad was allegedly made up of Keith
Speaker 1: and four or five others who brutally four alleged snitches
Speaker 1: that were being held hostage on L six, Darryl Depina,
Speaker 1: Albert Steano, William Spetty, and Bruce Vitali. But what did
Speaker 1: they say was Keith's motivation for this?
Speaker 3: The state says that it's effectively a bargaining chip that
Speaker 3: if he forms this death squad and executes these alleged snitches,
Speaker 3: then he can get out of L six. He can leave.
Speaker 3: You know, people who staged the uprising have said that
Speaker 3: Keith would not have had that power, that they wouldn't
Speaker 3: have let that happen, that this wouldn't have been a
Speaker 3: bargaining chip to let people leave. So it's inconsistent with
Speaker 3: what was going on in the prison, and it's inconsistent
Speaker 3: with what Keith was doing. It's inconsistent with numerous alibi witnesses.
Speaker 3: It's only consistent with the stories of the people who
Speaker 3: testified against Keith, who were obviously highly motivated to testify
Speaker 3: in that manner.
Speaker 1: And later on we'll get into the testimonies of those
Speaker 1: receiving either leniency, shorter sentences, immunity, a transfer, or most
Speaker 1: of the above. But first let's get back to this
Speaker 1: story from Keith's perspective, from when he returned to the
Speaker 1: yard and the prison was in full crisis and chaos mode.
Speaker 2: I mean, helicopters were flying up above over the prison.
Speaker 2: And then gradually the National Guards showed up, the Ohio
Speaker 2: State Patrol showed up, and they took up stands around
Speaker 2: outside the perimeter fence, had they you know, machine guns
Speaker 2: out and riot here, the riot helmets and everything, and
Speaker 2: so we're thinking this is the amount of time before
Speaker 2: they regained order, and an hour go by, two hours
Speaker 2: to go by, and then the body started coming out.
Speaker 2: You know, a group of mass inmates would come out
Speaker 2: of the building, waved and what it does like to
Speaker 2: be ad a machete and it was surreal. Then they
Speaker 2: had the body on the yard ten fifteen minutes to
Speaker 2: go by, and someone for an administration medica whatever come
Speaker 2: and retreew the body and take it back through the
Speaker 2: k side area thirty minutes to go by. Another body,
Speaker 2: then another body the body. Then they started getting dark outside,
Speaker 2: started getting cold, and then eventually got started setting bombs fires,
Speaker 2: you know, out from the wood from the boxing rings.
Speaker 2: And you had to understand, you know, the boxing rink
Speaker 2: was my thanks Agarently this was the place where I
Speaker 2: went to to kind of you know, make peace with
Speaker 2: all the bullshit that I've been throughing my life. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm tearing a waxing ring up, trying to get full
Speaker 2: so I can start a fire because it's chilly April
Speaker 2: for the silly at nighttime. So if we're standing around
Speaker 2: the fires and everything and all, why this is happening.
Speaker 2: The highway controls and National Guards is standing there watching by.
Speaker 2: Now I don't know, five or six bodies have been
Speaker 2: brought out to the yard, most of them dead. The
Speaker 2: people whose job it is to stop me from being
Speaker 2: one of those dead bodies are standing on the outside
Speaker 2: of the fence. And it's inaveud that you take in
Speaker 2: the notion that shit one of these bodies could be mine.
Speaker 2: Around three o'clock in the morning, how a waste state
Speaker 2: patrol came out gun strong and ordered all of us
Speaker 2: to line up to indicase had gymnasium. And once we
Speaker 2: got inside of there, they stripped all of us naked,
Speaker 2: took all our clothes and made us sit down in
Speaker 2: the middle of over the gymnasium floor, about four hundred
Speaker 2: people or so. And we stayed there like that and
Speaker 2: in total start nakedness four hours the same life. Eventually
Speaker 2: they started taking this random groups of teen and escorting
Speaker 2: us to these singleman's sales, and they put ten neked
Speaker 2: individuals in these cells the size of a closet. My
Speaker 2: recollection is right, I'm in K two thirty six or
Speaker 2: nine other megan individuals.
Speaker 3: And in that cell the fifth murder happened. And the
Speaker 3: state says that Keith's ordered at the murder. You know,
Speaker 3: Keith says that there was a confrontation and that he
Speaker 3: had nothing to do.
Speaker 2: With it when they finally came around and gave us jumpsuits,
Speaker 2: and that long after that threw sandwiches in the sale,
Speaker 2: which is the first time Minihim has that eating since
Speaker 2: the whole old deal started. There was like a feeding frenzy.
Speaker 2: Some guys took more than his share. And Dennis Weaver,
Speaker 2: he was one of the older prisoners in the cell,
Speaker 2: and he, you know, held onto his dignity to his
Speaker 2: credit and was hues the candra joined afraid. He made
Speaker 2: the mistake of saying something about it to this guy,
Speaker 2: William Bowland, guy named Sabbat, and Sebas and Dinners got
Speaker 2: into altercation. Sebas put him in a choke hold, and
Speaker 2: these two other prisoners held his feet down, you know,
Speaker 2: because he was struggling trying to free himself. And when
Speaker 2: the authorities came to remove Dinners from the cell and
Speaker 2: tried to question us, I along with most of the
Speaker 2: guys in the celle, said that we were asleep, which
Speaker 2: was our way saying that we didn't want to be involved,
Speaker 2: because that's one of the things you learned in prison
Speaker 2: to avoid violence by minding your own busines this and
Speaker 2: we don't know at the time that why not saying anything,
Speaker 2: we allowed the guy who actually committed the murder to
Speaker 2: shift the blame. You know, he said he was forced
Speaker 2: to kill Dennis by me and several other individuals.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a pretty wild leap to go from
Speaker 3: someone not telling you the complete truth, from someone saying
Speaker 3: that they were asleep, to saying that they ordered a murder.
Speaker 1: It's also obviously hard or impossible to order a murder
Speaker 1: when you don't have a weapon or the cloud of
Speaker 1: a prison gang behind you. But that's what the state
Speaker 1: and its cooperators ended up saying Keith did. Once the
Speaker 1: riot thus settled and many rounds of interviews began, But
Speaker 1: that didn't start until Wednesday, April twenty first, and Dennis
Speaker 1: Weaver's body had only joined the others from L Block
Speaker 1: on the second day of the Lucasville riot April twelfth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. At this point, the instigators of the
Speaker 1: riot were barricaded into L Block, armed with the prison's
Speaker 1: hostage negotiation handbook and eight hostages, making demands while anticipating
Speaker 1: the authority's moves. On Wednesday, April fourteenth, a sheet was
Speaker 1: hung from a window threatening the death of a hostage
Speaker 1: if their demands were not met. Among those demands were food, water, electricity,
Speaker 1: access to the news media, a stipulation regarding any future
Speaker 1: medical testing, the hiring of more blackguards, the relaxation of
Speaker 1: day to day restrictions, and various quality of life improvements,
Speaker 1: as well as the removal of Arthur Tate. Now. Early
Speaker 1: Thursday morning, April fifteenth, the body of one of the hostages,
Speaker 1: forty year old prison guard Robert Fulandingham, was produced from
Speaker 1: L Block. He had been strangled to death. The negotiations continued,
Speaker 1: a few hostages were released, and finally, on Wednesday, April
Speaker 1: twenty first, a list of twenty one demands were met
Speaker 1: to solidify the surrender of L Block. These included that
Speaker 1: news media and religious leaders would witness the surrender, that
Speaker 1: there would be no retaliation on any inmate or group
Speaker 1: of inmates, and that discipline or criminal proceedings would be
Speaker 1: carried out fairly and impartially. In the end, ten men
Speaker 1: had died, earl Elder Franklin Farrell, Bruce Harris, David Summers,
Speaker 1: Darryl de Pino, Bruce Vittali, Albert Seiano, William Sveetti, Dennis Weaver,
Speaker 1: and of course the prison guard Robert for Landingham.
Speaker 2: And so the guard's murder is really drove the prosecution.
Speaker 2: The riot was desided over awesomeately by the Black Against Disciples,
Speaker 2: the Sonny Muslims in the Brotherhood. The goal was to
Speaker 2: put their leadership on death row. Well, Aaron brother here
Speaker 2: is represented on death row. The Sunny Muslims I represented
Speaker 2: here on death row. The only people who are not
Speaker 2: represented here on death row in some Black Anster Disciples.
Speaker 2: Guess where there they were at now walk in the
Speaker 2: street because they testified against the leadership of these other games.
Speaker 2: And I'm the fill in for the Black Anst Disciples.
Speaker 2: Never been in the game, but I had a prior
Speaker 2: record for murder. I was inside of the L six
Speaker 2: pod when I came in for that brief time. I
Speaker 2: wasn't wearing a mask. People identified me, said Keith and
Speaker 2: Marbs inside the pot. They pulled my record. Recently when
Speaker 2: we did for your request, we found out that the
Speaker 2: prosecutor had written his name on my flow like this
Speaker 2: is significant. This is somebody who we can use. I
Speaker 2: was dropped out of school in fifth grade, shoplifting when
Speaker 2: I was thirteen, fourteen years old, seven weed, and these
Speaker 2: are the things that the state tried to use the
Speaker 2: celeris to get me to cop out of crimes that
Speaker 2: didn't admit.
Speaker 1: But the state had to come up with witnesses to
Speaker 1: corroborate this narrative.
Speaker 3: It's remarkable the number of interviews that took place and
Speaker 3: the number of times the same incarcerated people were interviewed,
Speaker 3: and how much their stories changed. Most of them did
Speaker 3: not identify Keith in their early interviews and even affirmatively
Speaker 3: said that Keith was not involved. And then at a
Speaker 3: certain point in that arc of giving statements, they all
Speaker 3: started identifying Keith. Something shifted there and he became a
Speaker 3: very easy scapegoat. He was already facing a sentence that maxed.
Speaker 1: Out at life.
Speaker 3: Everybody sort of thought he would take the plea But
Speaker 3: as everyone who's talked to Keith knows, here a remarkable
Speaker 3: individual of the utmost principles, and he was not going
Speaker 3: to plead guilty to a bunch of murders. He did
Speaker 3: not commit.
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that you don't see
Speaker 2: on Law and Order and those different police shows on televisions,
Speaker 2: and you know it's real and formal environment. They call
Speaker 2: you by your first name, and you know, like your
Speaker 2: old buddies like Keith m On, we would pass that
Speaker 2: we're going an agy to come out to this and
Speaker 2: a you mean yourself a favor, Otherwise I'm going to
Speaker 2: put your black ass on death row, cop out to
Speaker 2: murder and running time concurrent with the time you're already doing,
Speaker 2: to be like you're getting off Scott free. I said,
Speaker 2: but I'm innocent, though I'm not getting off Scott free
Speaker 2: when you're talking about prolonger mustay in prison beyond my
Speaker 2: parole day and I haven't done anything.
Speaker 1: You've just heard about how a riot and a rush
Speaker 1: to feed a community's sense of vengeance put Keith Lamar
Speaker 1: in a position where his past was leveraged against him
Speaker 1: in service of those who chose to escape their crimes
Speaker 1: by coopera with the state. Listen to Part two, where
Speaker 1: we'll explore who those individuals were, what they stood to
Speaker 1: gain by Sandy Keith a death row and the sham
Speaker 1: trial that put him there, as well as where we're
Speaker 1: at in his fight for justice and his very life.
Speaker 1: Find and listen to the second half of this very
Speaker 1: important episode available now if you're an Apple Plus subscriber,
Speaker 1: or you can listen next week in the free feed.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor Hall,
Speaker 1: Andy Chelsea, and Lyla Robinson, as well as my fellow
Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Awardis, and Jeff Clibern. The
Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR
Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across
Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at
Speaker 1: It's Jason Vlahm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one