1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: On Easter Sunday nineteen ninety three, inmates at Lucasville Prison 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: in Ohio took control of an entire cell block. The 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: crisis that became known as the Lucasville Prison Riot lasted 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: eleven days and claimed ten lives, including one of the 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: prison guards. When the cell block was finally surrendered, an 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: investigation ensued aimed at bringing the riot leadership to justice. 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: After several rounds of interviews, five names emerged, including a 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: man who lived on that cell block named Keith Lamar Now. 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: According to the state, Keith had allegedly commanded a team 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: of men who murdered four supposed snitches before heading out 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: to the prison yard, where the authorities ushered all the 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: inmates into another block that was still under state controlled. Then, 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: while confined in a cell with nine other men, he 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: allegedly ordered one more death. The other inmates weren't telling 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: this particular story in their initial interviews, but by the 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: time of Keith's Capitol trial, they were all somehow singing 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: the same tune and that had to count for something. 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. 19 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: Today's guest is somebody I've been waiting for for a 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: long time. His story. As terrifying as it is, it's 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: also the stuff of legend because this is a man 22 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: and Keith, I'm talking about you. I'm talking about you 23 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: in the third person. I'm going to talk directly to you. Now, Keith, 24 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: do you have had a life that if somebody wrote 25 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: it into a movie nobody would believe it? And this 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: is a guy. Now I'm back to talking about the 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: third person who has performed concerts all over the world 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: from inside of your cell on death Throw. 29 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: It sounds bizarre when I hear you say it, you know, 30 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: but yeah, it's been It's been a hell of a 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: journey man to say, at least in this situation that 32 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: I'm currently facing, has only focus me more all trying 33 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: to get as much life out of my life as 34 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: I possibly can. 35 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, despite fighting for your very life from 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: death row, which is literally hell on Earth, your pursuit 37 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: of art and life seems to have only gotten stronger. 38 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: And like I just mentioned, you've put on this spoken 39 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: word and jazz concert series called Freedom First. And if 40 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: that wasn't enough, you also put out an album by 41 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: the same name. But there's even more, you know, there's. 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: Books, documentaries, book clubs, and so on and so forth. 43 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: I'll just wake up and try to do as much 44 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: as I can with the time that I have, you know, 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: which is what we all should be. 46 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: Going, right Yeah. I mean I don't even know a 47 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: lot of people out here in the free world who 48 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: are living as much as you are inside the literal 49 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: living hell of Ohio Death Row. And we're going to 50 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: get into all of that in more detail later on, 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: and we're also going to be hearing from one of 52 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: your attorneys, Keegan Stefan, as well. But now I just 53 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: want to turn around first and start from the beginning 54 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: of your life. You were born and grew up in Cleveland, right, Yeah. 55 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen sixty nine on the east 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: side of Cleveland, Ohio, in a small little enc clave 57 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: called the Village. You know that I was saying in 58 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: case of village, I think the people who founded this 59 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 2: little place took that seriously. My grandfather, Harry Lamar, brought 60 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: his own home in this little enc clave. It was 61 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: made up of people who were in one form or 62 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: another related and you know, during dinner time, you can 63 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: walk into any number of houses and you know, people 64 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: will let you sit down and eat dinner, where there 65 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: was no distinction about the economic status because everybody was 66 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: pretty much on the same level. And that's where I 67 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: really grew up at from a baby until I was 68 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: around seven or eight, and my mother met and married 69 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: a man named Larry Morris, and shortly thereafter we moved 70 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: out of the village into the inner city. 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: Basically, I mean, the village sounds pretty amazing. It seems 72 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: like an odd choice to leave. What were the circumstances. 73 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: Well, my grandmother, she was to make sure of our 74 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: other family, pretty much said what went and what didn't 75 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: go in our family. And my stepfather didn't like that, 76 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: and so he moved so he can kind of run 77 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: his own household. But he was a side or the 78 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: steff at a country club, working for me good wages. 79 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: And so that was the first time my life and 80 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: I ever remember being home grey and sometimes, you know, 81 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: the lights would be off, the gas would be off, 82 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: and we had to heat the house with you know, 83 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: keeping the oven door open and whatnot, and we weren't 84 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: allowed to tell my grandparents about this. It all kind 85 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: of happened between nine and twelve years old, and that 86 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 2: is where I kind of marked the change in my life, 87 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 2: becoming aware of the poverty. You know, you go to 88 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: school to learn an arithmetic but so your peers teach 89 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: you other things we couldn't afford. Polo and guest cheane 90 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: and all these different things that meant so much to 91 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 2: my peers. 92 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: So I take it you wanted to fit in. What 93 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: did you do to make that happen or to try 94 00:04:59,480 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: to make that happen? 95 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: I worked. I had two paper routes, cutting grass, shoveling snow, 96 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: you know did all those things? You know of pants 97 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: might cost fifty sixty dollars. And this is before Eric 98 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: Jordan came out potennis. Shoot. It was just out of 99 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: my range as a kid trying to do it a 100 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: legitimate way. And you know kids are brutal. Man. You know, 101 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: you show up with some knockoff Jordia's jeans and you 102 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: mass well came to school. But Neckett, you know, the 103 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: ridicule was severe. It's all autitary bullshit. But you don't 104 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 2: know that when you were a kid. And my brother, 105 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: when I was saying, who was twelve, he was hanging 106 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: out with all the kids, and you know he had 107 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 2: undergone the same ridicule as I did, and had quickly 108 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: opt to become a thief once I just made the 109 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: decision to become a thief myself. He you know, kind 110 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: of showed me how to go about stealing clothes and 111 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: how to you know, remove the alarms from the jeans 112 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: and all this stuff. But then, you know, the reward 113 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: of coming walking into the school building with some Jordas's 114 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 2: jeans and a Polo shirt, The reception that I received 115 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: from my peers. I mean, all of a sudden, girls 116 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 2: who wouldn't speak to me a year ago are putting 117 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: notes in my locker, and I think I got addicted 118 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 2: to that, and so that ultimately became my life. And 119 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: started hanging with a group of older kids in the neighborhood. 120 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: And these were the guys that your older brother was 121 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: friends with. 122 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was a couple of guys like legends 123 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: in the neighborhood that lived in Joe Butler, Joe Bruce, 124 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: Daryl Daniels. I was thirteen by then, and they were 125 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: like fifteen, sixteen years old. And my older brother, Nelson 126 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: what he had already been sent Toby to juvenile and 127 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: so I was pretty much by myself and I fell 128 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: in with these guys one day and we all piled 129 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: into a stolen car and we was going to drive 130 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: out to the adjacent suburb. As soon as we crossed 131 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: over and to Sacred Heights, a police officers got right 132 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: behind us, and we were in this high speed chase, 133 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: like on eighty miles an hour, were down a residential district. 134 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 2: And I was actually relieved when I got caught, like, 135 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: thank god, you know, because this was extreme situation for 136 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: me in my life. And we went before this judge 137 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 2: and he lined us all up, was about six of 138 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: us altogether in our families, and he went down the 139 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: line and he was giving guy six months for each 140 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: offense that they had. And he said, Joe Bruce, this 141 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: your third time in front of me eighteen months. Joe Butler, 142 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: this your second time a year, you know. And he 143 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: got down to me. He said, Keith Lamar said, what 144 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: are you doing hanging with these bad boys? Now? You know, 145 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: try to look big and you know, hang my head 146 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: and hunch my shoulders, you know. And he gave my 147 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: mother and my parents to oper me say, I tell 148 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: you what I'm gonna do. Parents, you need to take 149 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: them home and deal with them while I deal with them. 150 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: And you know, stepfather told him, you deal with them, 151 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: and fifteen minutes later I was sitting in the jail cell. 152 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: So given the choice, your stepfather effectively threw you away. 153 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, because to him, my brother and I we were 154 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: just two extra miles to see. 155 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: And your mother didn't have anything to say about that. 156 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: You know, deally, that's what you would have hoped for 157 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: somebody to intervene. But she she had already been broken 158 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: to the point where she accepted somebody like this as 159 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: her husband. You know, any man is better than no man, 160 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: and as it turns out, he was. He was like 161 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: a monster. He was, you know, the very abusive. 162 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: So now you're going from the boiling pot into the 163 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: sizzling frying pan, so to speak. How long was your 164 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: stint in Juvie? 165 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: Six months? But I was thirteen, so it felt like 166 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: six years, believing or not compared the situation I lived 167 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: and wasn't so bad. I had pre square meals a day. 168 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: I was n a structured environment. I came out of it. 169 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: I was on a on a roll in terms of 170 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: my academic portion. 171 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: Of my life, and who knows, maybe you could have 172 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: kept going in that direction. Had you returned to a 173 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: more stable, you know, home in life. 174 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: When I when I came home, I came home, my 175 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: parents had moved into a two bedroom apartment, as if 176 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: my brother and I had went off through the army 177 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: or something that we weren't coming back home, and so 178 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: we moved up into this uninsulated attic. Was freezing cold 179 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: and the winter squorching hot in the summer, and we 180 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: were pretty much put on notice that we were on 181 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: our own, beyond our bear necessities, that we would not 182 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 2: be provided for. And I was thirteen still when I 183 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: came home, I think I'm gonna have to start selling marijuana. 184 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 3: Weed. 185 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: I bought two ounces of marijuana and I didn't look back. Man, 186 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: that was the beginning of the infamy. 187 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: Yah, what about your brother? 188 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: My brother had found the means of escape. He met 189 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: this girl named Paula who lives in the suburbs, and 190 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: her mother took a liking to my brother and allow 191 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: him to move in with them. And he was going 192 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 2: to school in suburbs. So it's me basically by myself. 193 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: Now I'm fourteen years old, I'm selling marijuana. I'm so 194 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: serious about it too, because I figured this is my 195 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: only way out, and I became very good at that. 196 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: I had about five or six guys working for me 197 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: and everything, young guys fourteen thirteen years old, selling real 198 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: I'm on the street corners and whatnot. And I came 199 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: home one day and discovered that my stepfather had been 200 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: up in my room and had found one of my 201 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: statues of money. I bought me a safe, and not 202 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: long after that, my stepfather kicked me out. I was 203 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: fifteen years old and I moved into the projects. This 204 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: was an apartment where we were selling drugs out of there. 205 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: And this was around eighty five eighty six, right around 206 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 2: the time crack cocaine started trickling into the ghetto. Nobody 207 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: really knew what it was, how dangerous it was. 208 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: So at the time it just seemed like an easy 209 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: way to make money. The profit margins are better than 210 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: they are with weed, right. 211 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, but the danger increases too. And at 212 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: first everything was cope, said it. I was snorting cocaine 213 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 2: by the time I was sixteen. I had a Mercedes 214 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 2: Benz Cadillac, driving Porsches, BMW Rolex watches, but around a 215 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: year or two, about nineteen eighty eight, was like the 216 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: height of the epidemic, and all the detrimental effects of 217 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: crack cocaine really started to become clear. The communities were 218 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: being decimated by this drug, and guys I grew up 219 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 2: with were becoming dope fiends, and young women were selling 220 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: their bodies, and it was just a real horrifying period 221 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: to live through. 222 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: As a crack epidemic were on, the community became increasingly desperate, 223 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: affecting even Keith's childhood friend, Kenyada Collins. 224 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 2: You know, he and I grew up together. We used 225 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 2: to walk to school together, played basketball together. By the 226 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 2: time nineteen eighty eight rolled around, he was, you know, 227 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 2: hooked on a crack cocaine pretty significantly and had fell 228 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: in with a group of guys called stick up kids, 229 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: you know that used to go around robbing drug deal 230 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 2: and so I became one of the targets. 231 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: And on December second, nineteen eighty eight, Keith was at 232 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: the apartment that served as the base of his drug 233 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: operation when Kenyata and the stick Up Kids showed up. 234 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 2: Now back in the back bedrooms counting money, and I 235 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 2: heard commotion in the front. I come to the front 236 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: of the door and guys were forcing their way into 237 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 2: the apartment. You know, I had the gun in my hand. 238 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: I was shot twice, myself in the legs, you know. 239 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: I shot a king out of twice as he came 240 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: through the door. I woke up in the hospital and 241 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: I was right next to the king out of college. 242 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 2: I heard the doctors when they pronounced him then said no, 243 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: he's not gonna he's not going to make it. And 244 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: you know, I woke up again and I was changed 245 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: to hospital big, you know. And so it was gradually 246 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: that it began to dine on me the magnitude or 247 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 2: normalcy of what had occurred. Even once I was able 248 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: to walk again, I went to the county jail and 249 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: I bombed out. Got an attorney. 250 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: I mean, this is not a legal opinion, but your 251 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: actions in this incident sure sound like self defense and 252 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: the purest sense of the word. 253 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: But I didn't have access to the old self defense 254 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: now because I was selling drugs. My hands weren't playing right. 255 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: So what was your attorney's plan. 256 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 2: This attorney was a friend of a family, and I 257 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: gave him like ten thousand cash. I gave him a 258 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 2: Mercedes Benz And nineteen eighty three is savy cavalier. So 259 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: I gave him two cars in cash to represent me, 260 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: and he came to me on the evil trial with 261 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: this scear tactic and told me, you know that they 262 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 2: were going to try to put me on death row. 263 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 2: And I was eighteen nineteen years old at the time, 264 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: and since I was so ignorant out the law, I 265 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: didn't know how to hold some to account, and I 266 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: played guilty. You know, he convinced me that that was 267 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: in my benefit to do that, and I didn't find 268 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: out a letter on that he himself was strung out 269 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: on cocaine at the time. 270 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: It's not ironic enough that you ended up giving the 271 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: proceeds of your successful drug operation to an attorney who 272 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: was one of the consumers of those same drugs, who 273 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: then ended up selling you more or less down the river. 274 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: You know. The thing that I didn't know that I 275 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 2: know now that they elevate could climb in order to 276 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 2: entice you to take in the deal. I played guilty 277 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: to murder. It really should have been mass you know, 278 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: out in the state of defending myself, no four thought 279 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: of malice or anything when in two it's oba's manslaughter. 280 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 2: But I topped out to murder. It gave me eighteen 281 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: years of life in that and I remember to just saying, 282 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: you know, don't worry about his son. It's it's only 283 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: twelve years six months to the pro boy, you know. 284 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: And I was nineteen at the time. But of course 285 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: he didn't tell me about the danger I was waiting into. 286 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Ohio Justice and 287 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: Policy Center, a nonprofit law firm that seeks justice for 288 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: people directly impacted by Ohio's criminal legal system. OJPC provides 289 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: free legal services to currently and formally incarcerated people. Through 290 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: it's Beyond Guilt Project, OJPC works to free over punish 291 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: people who have rehabilitated themselve else. Ojpc's Second Chance clinics 292 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: help individuals with criminal records remove barriers to employment and 293 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: house it. Ojpc's Human Rights in Prison Project represents people 294 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: who face denial of medical care. In its twenty five 295 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: year history, OJPC has worked at the policy level and 296 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: won numerous victories in Ohio, including ending juvenile life with 297 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: that Parole and exempting seriously mentally ill people from the 298 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: death penalty. To learn more about Ohio Justice and Policy 299 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: Center and how you can support its mission visit OHIOJPC 300 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: dot org. That's OHIOJPC dot org, Ohio Justice and Policy Center. 301 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,119 Speaker 1: We don't write people off. 302 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: They said, meet at Lebanon, Ohio's first I lived in 303 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: counter of racism that I have. You know, the in 304 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: word You heard it constantly around the clock in where 305 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 2: there is in word, And I'm talking about by staff, 306 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 2: not just by the prisoners. And it was predominantly white 307 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 2: guards and predominantly white prisoners down in this place. You know, 308 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: Black people from Inner City were the minority, and everybody 309 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: was hopped up on these weights, the steroids. And after 310 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: hearing all these war stories and young guys like me 311 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: being raped, you know, I kind of fixed my mind 312 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: that that wouldn't happen to me. Now, I didn't know 313 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: how I would prevent that from happening to me. 314 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that it's not uncommon for people to 315 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: join a prison gang for protection. 316 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. It was three gangs, the Black Age Disciples sending 317 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 2: Muslims although they don't consider themselves a gang, and the 318 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: Aaron Brotherhoods, three major factions that kind of control the resources, 319 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: the media resources inside the prison. Since we were down 320 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: in southern Ohio, the Aaron Brotherhood were being armed by 321 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: the guards who worked there, some of whom were in 322 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: the Aaron Brotherhood. They had swashackles on their necks and 323 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: all of this, and brotherhood they had real nice not 324 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 2: the makeshift nine the shanks that you see on television, 325 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 2: all kinds of things that were being brought in by 326 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 2: the guards. 327 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: But you didn't join the Sunni Muslims or the Black 328 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: Gangster Disciples, right, Oh. 329 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: You presume I wasn't in the area and brotherhood but forgot. 330 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: How rude of me? Not that I mean, I'm sure 331 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: their invite got lost somehow. 332 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 2: I never got an invite. But the first thing I 333 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 2: did when I came to Leven I joined the boxing team. 334 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 2: That was, you know, one of the best things I 335 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 2: could have done. You know, once twice a year you 336 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: have a boxing match in front of the whole prison. 337 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 2: You can show everybody what you made of and people 338 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: can perform the opinion after that as to whether or 339 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: not you are an easy game or whatever. You know. 340 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: But I got my GDD and then they rolling into 341 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: the college program. So I was on the trajectory in 342 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: terms of preparing myself for this this parole. 343 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: Date and staying out of a prison gang was part 344 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: of that plan, which continued after was transferred from Lebanon 345 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: to Lucasville in nineteen ninety one, which was arguably a 346 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: more difficult and violent situation because of a truly tragic 347 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: incident involving an adult education teacher who worked at the prison. 348 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: Beverly Taylor was a name, and she was murdered by 349 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: a black prisoner for nineteen ninety calls for the guy 350 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: to be executed or being put forth by the community, 351 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 2: but the guy was mentally handicapped and was deemed ineligible 352 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: for the death journality, so they didn't get what they wanted, 353 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 2: and so ultimately a new warden was appointed, a guy 354 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 2: they author take I think around ninety ninety one. And 355 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 2: so after Kate instituted this thing called Operations Shakedown, and 356 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: he started kind of turning the grooves, tightening up on everything. 357 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: You know, you have to have your shirt tucked in 358 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: at all times. She got to walk on the right 359 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: side of the hallway. It was more or less like 360 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: a military camp down, you know, something that happened overnight. 361 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: He set up this po box. He wanted to drop 362 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: the dime on somebody who wanted to become a snisch. 363 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: You just put in an anonymous note in the mailbox 364 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 2: on your way to chow and he would act on it. 365 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 2: So it was a very contentious environment, all the various 366 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: factions for being pitted against each other, and you can 367 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: kind of cut the tension with it nice. 368 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: And there was one incident in particular that kind of 369 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: pushed the whole thing over the edge. 370 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: They came up with this berclosis test and apparently had 371 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 2: an alcoholic ssson called Feno that the Muslims are stringously 372 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 2: objected to, and the warden Tate gave him also amazing, 373 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 2: you either take the tests or we're going to make 374 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: you take it. 375 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: You know. 376 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 2: They took advantage of the two days that they had 377 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: been given to formulate this plan, you know, April eleventh 378 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 2: they carried it out. 379 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: So April eleventh, nineteen ninety three was Easter Sunday and 380 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: Warden Tate planned unforcibly injecting the Sunni Muslim population on Monday, 381 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: April twelfth. So the Sunies devised a plan control of 382 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: an entire cell block by taking advantage of the skeleton 383 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: crew that worked on the holidays. When the staff of 384 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: prison guards would go from around one hundred and thirty 385 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: strong down to only eighty. Now to give you a 386 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: lay of the land, Lucasville Prison sprawled out in four 387 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: directions like a wheel with four spokes. One spoken compass, maintenance, 388 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: the hospital and dining hall. Walking from there toward the center, 389 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: you'd meet up with the other three spokes. J Block 390 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: to the right, Kate to the left, and L block 391 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: straight ahead. Now, K and L both consisted of a 392 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: long hallway with a jim at the end and eight 393 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: wings to the sides, L one, L two, and so on. 394 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: Keith lived in L six. It was about three pm 395 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: when Keith and the other prisoners were in the yard 396 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: between K and L block when the Sunni Muslims saw 397 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: their chance and struck. 398 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: Recreation was just about to end. They called over to 399 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: intercomm ten minute warning for everybody to start lining up 400 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: to come back inside the prison. And while we were 401 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: standing in line, and a guard ran out with blood 402 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: streaming down his space, and he was followed by masks 403 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: and make caring the night stick and saying we're taking over, 404 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: We're taking over. You know, I'll never forget it. It 405 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 2: was so real because you immediately know Oh shit, this 406 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 2: is serious. You know whoever this person is with this 407 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 2: mask and they gonna kill him because you can't see 408 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: insign You don't know that it's the whole semi Muslim organization. 409 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: I didn't know that's then earned sidewalk and it was 410 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: just around thirty minutes or so that took over the 411 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: whole L side of. 412 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: The prison and they later barricaded themselves into L Block 413 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: and held it for eleven days. But at this point 414 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: Keith was still out on the yard and had no 415 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: idea what was going on or what was to come. 416 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 2: News started to circle out that they were, you know, 417 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: ramsacking the cells and everything. What was actually happened, They 418 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 2: was going from sale to sale, accumulating food, telling people 419 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 2: that they had to donate whatever food stuff that they 420 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: had so they can administer it during the ensuing days. 421 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 2: That reached us on the yard was that they was 422 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: robbing the seals, and so I wanted to go in 423 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 2: and secure my property. But I didn't know it was 424 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 2: a life of death situation. I thought it was just 425 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 2: a situation where some guys that got a hold of 426 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: some keys and non sales were being rummish through and 427 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 2: so it was with that misinformation that I, I guess 428 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 2: my better judgment, decided to go inside and check on 429 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: my personal belongings. 430 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: And this decision to go inside L block was how 431 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: eventually Keith's name got dragged into what happened on L sex. 432 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 2: When I went in, I kind of immediately understood that, 433 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: you know, this is something more involved than just one 434 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: prisoner attacking the guard, because they were breaking windows, fire 435 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: alarms was going off. I mean, it was pandemonium, and 436 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: you know, I made my way to my I signed 437 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 2: the sale block L six, and contrast to the chaos 438 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 2: that was going on in the corridors, it was very 439 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 2: very quiet. You know, guards were already locked into the 440 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 2: shower stalls, and there was different prisoners inside of the 441 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: seals who I later learned were hostages, but I didn't 442 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: know that at the time I came in, and not 443 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 2: really understand I ran down to my sale and there 444 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: was a person inside of my cell, and so instinctively 445 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: I ran up to the control panel trying to unlock 446 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: my door so I can get this person out of 447 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: my cell, because as far as I was serned, that confirmed, 448 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 2: but I already kind of figured that somebody was rifling 449 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: through my things, but you know he was a hostage. 450 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: I went up to the control panel and was turning 451 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 2: the knobs randomly, you know, not really understanding how to 452 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 2: work the panel, and opened up a few other doors invertedly, 453 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: and you know that alerted to someding Mostlims who were 454 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: inside the part, and they accostant me and told me, 455 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 2: you know know on certain terms that you know this 456 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: is what's going on. You the Willers, or you get 457 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. And you know, I chose 458 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 2: to leave. I left and came back out into the yard. 459 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: Keith was ultimately accused of killing four men during his 460 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: short trip inside of all block. The hostages being held 461 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: on L six who, according to the state, or snitches. 462 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: At this point, I want to bring in one of 463 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: the attorneys representing Keith. He's an associate at Bell doc 464 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: Lebine and Hoffman. Keegan Stephan. Welcome to the show. Thank 465 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: you so, Keegan. The state's narrative of what happened on 466 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: that awful easter Sunday in nineteen ninety three obviously diverges 467 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: from Keith's version of events, but let's start with where 468 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: they are the same. 469 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: You know, Keith was not in L six when the 470 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,479 Speaker 3: riot started, even by the states theory and narrative of events. Second, 471 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 3: you know, this riot was very deliberately planned by a 472 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 3: group of people that Keith was not a part of. 473 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 3: And again the state concedes that, which seems like a 474 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 3: very important point. 475 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: Right, But now the state disagrees with what we've already 476 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: heard from Keith. 477 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's where their story is diverge. Keith goes 478 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: in to get his belongings and leaves. That is what 479 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 3: numerous alibi witnesses say. The state says that he goes 480 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: in and then forms a death squad and executes the 481 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 3: people that have been locked in their cells. 482 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: And this death squad was allegedly made up of Keith 483 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: and four or five others who brutally four alleged snitches 484 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: that were being held hostage on L six, Darryl Depina, 485 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: Albert Steano, William Spetty, and Bruce Vitali. But what did 486 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: they say was Keith's motivation for this? 487 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 3: The state says that it's effectively a bargaining chip that 488 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 3: if he forms this death squad and executes these alleged snitches, 489 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 3: then he can get out of L six. He can leave. 490 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 3: You know, people who staged the uprising have said that 491 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 3: Keith would not have had that power, that they wouldn't 492 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 3: have let that happen, that this wouldn't have been a 493 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: bargaining chip to let people leave. So it's inconsistent with 494 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: what was going on in the prison, and it's inconsistent 495 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 3: with what Keith was doing. It's inconsistent with numerous alibi witnesses. 496 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: It's only consistent with the stories of the people who 497 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: testified against Keith, who were obviously highly motivated to testify 498 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 3: in that manner. 499 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: And later on we'll get into the testimonies of those 500 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: receiving either leniency, shorter sentences, immunity, a transfer, or most 501 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: of the above. But first let's get back to this 502 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: story from Keith's perspective, from when he returned to the 503 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: yard and the prison was in full crisis and chaos mode. 504 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 2: I mean, helicopters were flying up above over the prison. 505 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 2: And then gradually the National Guards showed up, the Ohio 506 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: State Patrol showed up, and they took up stands around 507 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 2: outside the perimeter fence, had they you know, machine guns 508 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: out and riot here, the riot helmets and everything, and 509 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 2: so we're thinking this is the amount of time before 510 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 2: they regained order, and an hour go by, two hours 511 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: to go by, and then the body started coming out. 512 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: You know, a group of mass inmates would come out 513 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 2: of the building, waved and what it does like to 514 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 2: be ad a machete and it was surreal. Then they 515 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: had the body on the yard ten fifteen minutes to 516 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: go by, and someone for an administration medica whatever come 517 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 2: and retreew the body and take it back through the 518 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: k side area thirty minutes to go by. Another body, 519 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: then another body the body. Then they started getting dark outside, 520 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 2: started getting cold, and then eventually got started setting bombs fires, 521 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 2: you know, out from the wood from the boxing rings. 522 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 2: And you had to understand, you know, the boxing rink 523 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: was my thanks Agarently this was the place where I 524 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: went to to kind of you know, make peace with 525 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: all the bullshit that I've been throughing my life. You know, 526 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 2: I'm tearing a waxing ring up, trying to get full 527 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 2: so I can start a fire because it's chilly April 528 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 2: for the silly at nighttime. So if we're standing around 529 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 2: the fires and everything and all, why this is happening. 530 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 2: The highway controls and National Guards is standing there watching by. 531 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: Now I don't know, five or six bodies have been 532 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: brought out to the yard, most of them dead. The 533 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 2: people whose job it is to stop me from being 534 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: one of those dead bodies are standing on the outside 535 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 2: of the fence. And it's inaveud that you take in 536 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 2: the notion that shit one of these bodies could be mine. 537 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 2: Around three o'clock in the morning, how a waste state 538 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: patrol came out gun strong and ordered all of us 539 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: to line up to indicase had gymnasium. And once we 540 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: got inside of there, they stripped all of us naked, 541 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 2: took all our clothes and made us sit down in 542 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: the middle of over the gymnasium floor, about four hundred 543 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: people or so. And we stayed there like that and 544 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 2: in total start nakedness four hours the same life. Eventually 545 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 2: they started taking this random groups of teen and escorting 546 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: us to these singleman's sales, and they put ten neked 547 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: individuals in these cells the size of a closet. My 548 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: recollection is right, I'm in K two thirty six or 549 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: nine other megan individuals. 550 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 3: And in that cell the fifth murder happened. And the 551 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 3: state says that Keith's ordered at the murder. You know, 552 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 3: Keith says that there was a confrontation and that he 553 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 3: had nothing to do. 554 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: With it when they finally came around and gave us jumpsuits, 555 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: and that long after that threw sandwiches in the sale, 556 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: which is the first time Minihim has that eating since 557 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: the whole old deal started. There was like a feeding frenzy. 558 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: Some guys took more than his share. And Dennis Weaver, 559 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 2: he was one of the older prisoners in the cell, 560 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: and he, you know, held onto his dignity to his 561 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 2: credit and was hues the candra joined afraid. He made 562 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 2: the mistake of saying something about it to this guy, 563 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 2: William Bowland, guy named Sabbat, and Sebas and Dinners got 564 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: into altercation. Sebas put him in a choke hold, and 565 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: these two other prisoners held his feet down, you know, 566 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 2: because he was struggling trying to free himself. And when 567 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: the authorities came to remove Dinners from the cell and 568 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 2: tried to question us, I along with most of the 569 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: guys in the celle, said that we were asleep, which 570 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 2: was our way saying that we didn't want to be involved, 571 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 2: because that's one of the things you learned in prison 572 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 2: to avoid violence by minding your own busines this and 573 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: we don't know at the time that why not saying anything, 574 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: we allowed the guy who actually committed the murder to 575 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 2: shift the blame. You know, he said he was forced 576 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 2: to kill Dennis by me and several other individuals. 577 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 3: You know, it's a pretty wild leap to go from 578 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 3: someone not telling you the complete truth, from someone saying 579 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 3: that they were asleep, to saying that they ordered a murder. 580 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: It's also obviously hard or impossible to order a murder 581 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: when you don't have a weapon or the cloud of 582 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: a prison gang behind you. But that's what the state 583 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: and its cooperators ended up saying Keith did. Once the 584 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: riot thus settled and many rounds of interviews began, But 585 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: that didn't start until Wednesday, April twenty first, and Dennis 586 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: Weaver's body had only joined the others from L Block 587 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: on the second day of the Lucasville riot April twelfth, 588 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. At this point, the instigators of the 589 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: riot were barricaded into L Block, armed with the prison's 590 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: hostage negotiation handbook and eight hostages, making demands while anticipating 591 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: the authority's moves. On Wednesday, April fourteenth, a sheet was 592 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: hung from a window threatening the death of a hostage 593 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: if their demands were not met. Among those demands were food, water, electricity, 594 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: access to the news media, a stipulation regarding any future 595 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: medical testing, the hiring of more blackguards, the relaxation of 596 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: day to day restrictions, and various quality of life improvements, 597 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: as well as the removal of Arthur Tate. Now. Early 598 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,719 Speaker 1: Thursday morning, April fifteenth, the body of one of the hostages, 599 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: forty year old prison guard Robert Fulandingham, was produced from 600 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: L Block. He had been strangled to death. The negotiations continued, 601 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: a few hostages were released, and finally, on Wednesday, April 602 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: twenty first, a list of twenty one demands were met 603 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: to solidify the surrender of L Block. These included that 604 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: news media and religious leaders would witness the surrender, that 605 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: there would be no retaliation on any inmate or group 606 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: of inmates, and that discipline or criminal proceedings would be 607 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: carried out fairly and impartially. In the end, ten men 608 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: had died, earl Elder Franklin Farrell, Bruce Harris, David Summers, 609 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: Darryl de Pino, Bruce Vittali, Albert Seiano, William Sveetti, Dennis Weaver, 610 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: and of course the prison guard Robert for Landingham. 611 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 2: And so the guard's murder is really drove the prosecution. 612 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 2: The riot was desided over awesomeately by the Black Against Disciples, 613 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 2: the Sonny Muslims in the Brotherhood. The goal was to 614 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 2: put their leadership on death row. Well, Aaron brother here 615 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: is represented on death row. The Sunny Muslims I represented 616 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: here on death row. The only people who are not 617 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 2: represented here on death row in some Black Anster Disciples. 618 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 2: Guess where there they were at now walk in the 619 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: street because they testified against the leadership of these other games. 620 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: And I'm the fill in for the Black Anst Disciples. 621 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 2: Never been in the game, but I had a prior 622 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 2: record for murder. I was inside of the L six 623 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 2: pod when I came in for that brief time. I 624 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: wasn't wearing a mask. People identified me, said Keith and 625 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 2: Marbs inside the pot. They pulled my record. Recently when 626 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: we did for your request, we found out that the 627 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: prosecutor had written his name on my flow like this 628 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 2: is significant. This is somebody who we can use. I 629 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: was dropped out of school in fifth grade, shoplifting when 630 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: I was thirteen, fourteen years old, seven weed, and these 631 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: are the things that the state tried to use the 632 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: celeris to get me to cop out of crimes that 633 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 2: didn't admit. 634 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: But the state had to come up with witnesses to 635 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: corroborate this narrative. 636 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 3: It's remarkable the number of interviews that took place and 637 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: the number of times the same incarcerated people were interviewed, 638 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 3: and how much their stories changed. Most of them did 639 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 3: not identify Keith in their early interviews and even affirmatively 640 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: said that Keith was not involved. And then at a 641 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 3: certain point in that arc of giving statements, they all 642 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 3: started identifying Keith. Something shifted there and he became a 643 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 3: very easy scapegoat. He was already facing a sentence that maxed. 644 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: Out at life. 645 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 3: Everybody sort of thought he would take the plea But 646 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 3: as everyone who's talked to Keith knows, here a remarkable 647 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 3: individual of the utmost principles, and he was not going 648 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 3: to plead guilty to a bunch of murders. He did 649 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 3: not commit. 650 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that you don't see 651 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 2: on Law and Order and those different police shows on televisions, 652 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 2: and you know it's real and formal environment. They call 653 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: you by your first name, and you know, like your 654 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 2: old buddies like Keith m On, we would pass that 655 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 2: we're going an agy to come out to this and 656 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: a you mean yourself a favor, Otherwise I'm going to 657 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: put your black ass on death row, cop out to 658 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 2: murder and running time concurrent with the time you're already doing, 659 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 2: to be like you're getting off Scott free. I said, 660 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 2: but I'm innocent, though I'm not getting off Scott free 661 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 2: when you're talking about prolonger mustay in prison beyond my 662 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 2: parole day and I haven't done anything. 663 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: You've just heard about how a riot and a rush 664 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: to feed a community's sense of vengeance put Keith Lamar 665 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: in a position where his past was leveraged against him 666 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: in service of those who chose to escape their crimes 667 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: by coopera with the state. Listen to Part two, where 668 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: we'll explore who those individuals were, what they stood to 669 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: gain by Sandy Keith a death row and the sham 670 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: trial that put him there, as well as where we're 671 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: at in his fight for justice and his very life. 672 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: Find and listen to the second half of this very 673 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: important episode available now if you're an Apple Plus subscriber, 674 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,959 Speaker 1: or you can listen next week in the free feed. 675 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 676 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 677 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 678 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor Hall, 679 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: Andy Chelsea, and Lyla Robinson, as well as my fellow 680 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Awardis, and Jeff Clibern. The 681 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR 682 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across 683 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at 684 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at 685 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: It's Jason Vlahm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava 686 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one