1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 2: President Trump landed last night for the start of his 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: second state visit to Britain, even as the UK hopes 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: that a banquet were the King lots of Pomber carriage, 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: procession through Windsor Castle and the estate there and a 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: meeting at Checkers with the Prime Minister will result in 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: investment deals, some of which have already been announced. Kirs 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: Starmer's government has quietly dropped talks to try to lower 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 2: the twenty five percent US import levy on UK steel, 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: joining US now as Mark Lyle Grant, who is former 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: UK Ambassador to the UN and also former National Security 12 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 2: Advisor to the then Prime Minister twenty fifteen to twenty 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: seventeen and joins US now Mark. Good morning, morning, Lovely 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: to speak to you. Your service as national Security advisor. 15 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: It overlapped with the beginning of President Trump's first presidency 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: and back then you were advising Teresa May. What would 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: you be advising Prime Minister Kirs Starmer ahead of this 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: visit now? 19 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 3: Well, I think this visit is a good opportunity for 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 3: Kir Starmer. He's had a difficult couple of weeks with 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 3: high level resignations from his inner team, including just recently 22 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 3: the British ambassador to Washington. So he will want, I 23 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 3: think a number of things from this visit. He'll want 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 3: a distraction from some of his domestic concerns. He'll want 25 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 3: President Trump to be impressed by the sort of pomp 26 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 3: and circumstances of the royal engagement with the President, and 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 3: he will want some specific things, particularly on trade and investment, 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 3: some of which have already been announced as you mentioned. 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 3: So it's a high event, a high profile event both 30 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 3: for President Trump but also for Kirstarmer. 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: So high profile. But is it also high risk? Is 32 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: the UK making a mistake by aligning itself so closely 33 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: to the US versus other allies when we see other 34 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: countries taking a different path. 35 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. I mean when I was 36 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: National Security, as you mentioned during the Trump first term, 37 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 3: we did have a discussion about, you know, was this 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 3: going to be particularly awkward? There were going to be 39 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: policy differences, but the overwhelming view was that, you know, 40 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: America's our most important ally, It's absolutely essential for us 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: in terms of security, intelligence, nuclear defense, etc. And the 42 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 3: best way to deal with any US president is to 43 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 3: hug him close. And that goes for President Trump just 44 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 3: as much as any other American president. Now, of course, 45 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: in his first term there was a conservative government in 46 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 3: the UK and a sort of slightly chaotic, to say 47 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 3: the least, Trump administration in Washington. This time you've got 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 3: a more organized and more vigorous Trump administration and a 49 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 3: labor government in London. So of course there are going 50 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 3: to be some significant policy differences, and some of those 51 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: will be aired over the next couple of days, particularly 52 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: on the Middle East, but perhaps also on Ukraine and 53 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: issues like free speech. But nonetheless, the same principle applies 54 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 3: that we are America's best ally and America is our 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: most important ally as well, so there has to be 56 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 3: a close bilateral relationship. 57 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 2: Of course, But hugging the United States close also does 58 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: mean quite significant intervention by the US in domestic UK politics, 59 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: notably Elon Musk giving significant support to the United the 60 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 2: Kingdom March over the weekend, which is organized by Tommy 61 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: Robinson and talking about violence is coming to you. You 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: either fight back or you die. I mean that Stama 63 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: government had to condemn that kind of inflammatory statement. Does 64 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: it concern you? Should the UK be concerned about the 65 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: threat of political interference. 66 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 3: I don't think so particularly No, I mean, Elon Musk 67 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: is no longer associated with administration after all, and President 68 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: Trump himself in the run up to this visit has 69 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: been very careful not to criticize the UK or the 70 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: British government in any way, and that again is different 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 3: from his last state visit, when he did issue a 72 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: press interview that was actually rather critical of Tuisa May 73 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 3: at the time, I recall. So, I think he'll be 74 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: very careful and I don't think that Elon musk staff 75 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: will will interfere. But I think there will be some 76 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 3: nervousness tomorrow because tomorrow is the political day and there 77 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 3: will be a joint press conference between Keir Starmer and 78 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 3: Donald Trump. And in a press conference, there's no doubt 79 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: that journalists are gained to be pressing both men on 80 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: issues that divide them. That's what happens at these press conferences, 81 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 3: and so I think there'll be a lot of questions 82 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: about Mandelson, There'll be a lot of questions about free 83 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: speech and trying to drive wedges between the two men. 84 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: And of course, with President Trump, one never knows exactly 85 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 3: what he's going to do in response, so there'll be 86 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 3: some nervousness in London about how that goes tomorrow. 87 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: What do you think the biggest risk facing Key Starmer 88 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: in this visit. 89 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: Well, I think that is the biggest risk, the press conference. 90 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: You know, the two men get on surprisingly well. We've 91 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: seen for meetings in the White House, meetings in Scotland 92 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 3: this year already, so I don't think there's any sort 93 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 3: of personal issue between them. And it's always worth noting 94 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: on these occasions that President Trump is a natural, instinctive 95 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 3: anglifier for the obvious reasons. His mother was born in Scotland, 96 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: you know, his love of the royal family, the goal 97 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: for all that sort of thing. And that was not 98 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: the case with Joe Biden for sort of Irish reasons, 99 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 3: and it was not the case for Barack Obama for 100 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: sort of Kenya related reasons. So for the first time 101 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 3: for a while, we do have an angler file, naturally 102 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: anglifile president in the White House, and that does make 103 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 3: a difference on these sorts of occasions. 104 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 2: Putin is seen as a mounting military threat to NATA 105 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: and to Europe. Do you think that Starber will try 106 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: to get Trump to take a harder line on Putin. 107 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: Is that really an avenue you know that would bear fruit? 108 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 3: Well, it may not bear food, but I'm sure he 109 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 3: will try because the Europeans, all European governments, have been 110 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: deeply disappointed by President Trump's approach to Putin, the fact 111 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 3: that he's promised tougher mes is tougher sanctions on numerous 112 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 3: occasions in recent months and hasn't delivered, and seems to 113 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 3: be very averse to taking a tougher line with Putin 114 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: or indeed admitting sort of openly that Putin is solely 115 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 3: responsible for this conflict in Ukraine. So I think that 116 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: will certainly be an item on the agenda for discussion tomorrow. 117 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: Does kir Starmer have a better chance, given that the 118 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: meant the prelections of the presidents he noticed, as he 119 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: noted towards the UK Does he have a better chance 120 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: than other European leaders in getting Trump to do more 121 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: when it comes to Russia and Ukraine. 122 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 3: I think he does. I think we've seen that in 123 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: the sort of eight months of the Trump presidency so far, 124 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: that he does have an avenue of influence with the 125 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 3: President Trump. I don't say it's completely unique. I mean 126 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 3: others have different inns, like the finished president plays golf, etc. 127 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: But nonetheless, I think the closeness of the bilateral relationship 128 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 3: is very different from the sort of relationship that President 129 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 3: Trump has with the French leader, the German leader, and others. 130 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: So I think that does give him a certain opportunity 131 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: to exert influence on these big policy issues like Ukraine 132 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: and indeed the Middle East.