WEBVTT - 213: Nobody Likes Babies w/ Debra Mooney

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<v Speaker 1>Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in

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<v Speaker 1>partnership with Iheartradiots. As Katie, I feel like we say

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<v Speaker 1>this every single time we do a podcast, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's true, Like sincerely this episode, Like I was sobbing

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<v Speaker 1>last night watching you were. Yeah, Like I watched it

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<v Speaker 1>twice and real times I was sobbing.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, I'm trying to remember. I watched it last night too,

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<v Speaker 2>and now I'm like, guys, when you're old and you

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<v Speaker 2>fall asleep, I can't remember what I did last night,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was sober. I watched it completely sober. We

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<v Speaker 2>always had a TV in our train at Scandals, right,

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<v Speaker 2>mm hm? I never turned mine on, Gimi Camber never,

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<v Speaker 2>and you are such a like you need to have

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<v Speaker 2>something in the background. I feel like, so you had

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<v Speaker 2>always I Love Lucy one or maybe like twilight Zone?

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<v Speaker 2>Am I making that up?

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<v Speaker 1>No, you're right, that's exactly right. I would watch Twilight Zone,

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<v Speaker 1>I would watch I Love Lucy, I would watch horror films.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd bring DVDs, remember DVDs and CDs.

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<v Speaker 2>The other thing that must be noted about your trailer,

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<v Speaker 2>which was so cool. Not only did you always have

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<v Speaker 2>twilight Zone or I love Lucy On. But you always

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<v Speaker 2>had like a fucking cool ass lamp with like a

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<v Speaker 2>blanket over it or something, so it was very lighty.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't you remember that? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>So your trailer always had like amazing sort of mood lighting, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>regardless of the day, it was very Giermo, are you

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<v Speaker 2>affected by light? Are you like a light person? Are

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<v Speaker 2>you like it needs to be dim?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it needs to be dim. It needs to be

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<v Speaker 1>like a sort of an amber tone, like a reddish tone.

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<v Speaker 2>God, you must have walked into them, because the makeup

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<v Speaker 2>trailer couldn't be Oh god, you're polar opposite of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, when you walk into a fucking hair and

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<v Speaker 2>makeup trailer, it is like landing on the sun at

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<v Speaker 2>an airport.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's supposed to be all this great mirror

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<v Speaker 2>lighting so that they can really do a good job

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<v Speaker 2>doing your makeup. But I always felt like the lighting

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<v Speaker 2>was so aggressive.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so aggressive, so hostile. So wait, what did you

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<v Speaker 1>do last night?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? Last night was one of these insanely stupid and

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<v Speaker 2>annoying but also kind of fun mom situations where we

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<v Speaker 2>had a four pm birthday party at Skyzone trampoline part shit,

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<v Speaker 2>And I took both my kids by myself to an

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<v Speaker 2>indoor trampoline park where you're just bouncing and peeing everywhere

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<v Speaker 2>because I've had two children.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, did you get in the trampoline as well? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Hell yeah, I fucking jump all over that shit. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>let's go. I put on an extra special bra for

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<v Speaker 2>it so that I wasn't scaring the peoples, and then

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<v Speaker 2>I only pete a little bit, which was a huge

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<v Speaker 2>win because I used to do once you've had two children,

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<v Speaker 2>all of you mommy gladiators who are out there listening

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<v Speaker 2>two vaginal birds means that.

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<v Speaker 1>They're like it's hard to control.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that there's there's been some blowouts that have happened

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<v Speaker 2>down there, and you better be working them keygels and

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<v Speaker 2>all that to hold in the pps. But it was

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<v Speaker 2>lovely and the kids had the best time ever. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know what was cute. The girl whose birthday it

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<v Speaker 2>was is seven, and she's a tough little cookie, like

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<v Speaker 2>she likes to battle and fight and she does Pokemon

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<v Speaker 2>battles with my son. They're like Archie is v Star

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<v Speaker 2>blast in your face like and they're just like crazy

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<v Speaker 2>battling and Albi said to me on the way home, Mommy,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I know who I want to marry, which, like,

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<v Speaker 2>where does he get this shit? Like, I don't talk

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<v Speaker 2>to him about marriage. This must be in fucking Disney

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<v Speaker 2>movies or some shit. But he's just like, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to marry Charlie. She's so cute and so beautiful and

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<v Speaker 2>she's seven and she's tough as fucking nails. But I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not so convinced that Charlie will like boys. I don't know. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we've already discovered that my son he likes the ladies. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And it's funny when women are running by in sports bras.

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<v Speaker 1>Is he like, uh do his eyes pop out like

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<v Speaker 1>in the cartoons? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, He's like, Mommy, mommy, what's that?

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<v Speaker 3>Like?

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<v Speaker 2>Why don't they have clothes on? Like, mommy, what are

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<v Speaker 2>they wearing?

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<v Speaker 1>Like?

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<v Speaker 2>What is that?

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<v Speaker 1>Like?

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<v Speaker 2>He's into it, and I'm like one time we were

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<v Speaker 2>at a wine tasting and there was like a very

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<v Speaker 2>like a woman there wearing a very risque thing. She

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<v Speaker 2>was hot a shit, and she had long blonde hair.

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<v Speaker 2>And my son was like, I'd like to go play

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<v Speaker 2>with her.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, he didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, And I'm like, fucking shit, he's totally straight.

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<v Speaker 1>I love him.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, did you know that you loved the little

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<v Speaker 2>I mean when did you know?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Katie Will that's I was going to say earlier

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<v Speaker 1>I was in kindergarten. I remember being in kindergarten even

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<v Speaker 1>before that and being like attracted to other little boys,

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, like whatever age a straight person knew,

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<v Speaker 1>like whatever age you were, if it was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>five or seven, that's the same thing for a gay person.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can see it, like I mean, obviously he's

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<v Speaker 2>already making comments like I want to marry this girl,

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<v Speaker 2>so he doesn't understand like, oh, I'm having like feelings feeling,

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<v Speaker 2>but he one hundred percent is this episode, we may

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<v Speaker 2>or may not have an incredible guest and this person

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<v Speaker 2>little tidbit fun fact I've worked with twice.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I was going to ask you about that because

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<v Speaker 1>I found that when I did my research.

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<v Speaker 2>She's fucking unbelievable and she may or may not be

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<v Speaker 2>part of our scandal body count unfortunately. Rip. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>she's got one of the fucking coolest voices I have

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<v Speaker 2>ever heard.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it just rumbles. Yeah, I love it. It's so good,

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<v Speaker 1>it's so powerful.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna have to ask this person. Is it because

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<v Speaker 2>they smoked a lot as.

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<v Speaker 1>A young man or is that just the way it's

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<v Speaker 1>always been? Yeah, I don't know, who knows. I've always

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<v Speaker 1>been jealous of raspy voices like that, me too, Like

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<v Speaker 1>special voices like Daphanie Rubin Vega has a very specific,

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<v Speaker 1>like special.

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<v Speaker 2>Voice ability to just really grumble. Well, this actress has

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<v Speaker 2>it ten millionfold. She is so like but she's like

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<v Speaker 2>I boughta and I this episode she absolutely kills And

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<v Speaker 2>she was part of the Scandal family. Was she in

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<v Speaker 2>season one too?

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<v Speaker 1>Whenever we see the like Mellie and Olivia, the Goons,

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<v Speaker 1>the Goons, Yeah, plant doing the whole cytron hardly.

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<v Speaker 2>Wing rigging, but we're talking about the one, the only Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we got her in the toolbox.

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<v Speaker 1>Deborah Mooney has been in a lot of iconic shows

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<v Speaker 1>and movies like yes, I mean, you can't even imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>She was in a movie, one of my favorite movies

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<v Speaker 1>called Tutsie. Do you remember the Tootsie with Dustin Hoffman?

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<v Speaker 2>Hoffman a fucking classic? Who did she play in Tutsi?

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<v Speaker 3>Is?

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<v Speaker 1>She played a character named missus Mallory. You have to

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<v Speaker 1>go back and watch it. It's it's Dustin Hoffman is

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<v Speaker 1>brilliant in that film. I mean, Terry Garr. Deborah Mooney

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<v Speaker 1>is in it. And she was also in Dead Poet

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<v Speaker 1>Society with Robin williamses.

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<v Speaker 2>No, and we need to ask her about it. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>Deborah Mooney so fucking pretty.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't even when she dies ri ip Verna,

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<v Speaker 2>she is laying back in her casket.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, my gorgeous.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this woman is fucking gorgeous, her hair, her eye color.

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<v Speaker 2>And then she's got that rumbly ass voice. Deborah Mooney.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys, I Verna.

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<v Speaker 2>That voice, that face, our one and only.

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<v Speaker 3>Verna Thornton, Verna Thornton.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have just gotten to the episode where Verna,

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<v Speaker 2>so sadly and so horrifically is murdered by the hands

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<v Speaker 2>of the president himself.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh with a thought.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean really, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Verna, can you take us through? Do you remember how

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<v Speaker 2>you got the part?

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<v Speaker 3>No? I think they just called me and that's me by.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was just a straight offer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I believe so well. I mean, Deborah, you've done

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<v Speaker 1>like a million and ten things. You were in Seinfeld,

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<v Speaker 1>you were in you did an episode of Ellen, you

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<v Speaker 1>were in Domestic disturb Vince Will and Grace, Anastasia Touched

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<v Speaker 1>by an Angel? Like, I could go on and on

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<v Speaker 1>and on.

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<v Speaker 3>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you always want to be an actor?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I think so. Isn't it funny? I mean I

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<v Speaker 3>grew up in a teen ninety town in North Dakota.

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<v Speaker 3>I am the only one that became an actor.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you get the idea?

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<v Speaker 3>Like?

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<v Speaker 2>Were you acting as a little kid?

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<v Speaker 3>That's what I wonder sometimes because as a little kid,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I used to perform for the neighbors. They

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<v Speaker 3>had an entrance to their living room was a double door,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, so that was my stage and they all

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<v Speaker 3>sat on the couch and I held the dog and

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<v Speaker 3>saying how much is that doggie in the window?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Funny?

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<v Speaker 3>And they loved it.

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<v Speaker 1>Did your parents always encourage you to continue like performing?

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<v Speaker 3>No? No, I don't think they thought I was going

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<v Speaker 3>to be an actress at all. Really, No, that was

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<v Speaker 3>just something you know, Oh my god, sounds like you've

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<v Speaker 3>got a air ball. Sorry, wouldn't you know?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, we'll take the cat with the hairball. We love

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<v Speaker 2>real life stuff. Deborah Moody, How did you find yourself

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<v Speaker 2>in Los Angeles? Or did you?

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<v Speaker 3>I came out here to see my daughter. I was

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<v Speaker 3>acting in New York. I went to the University of

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<v Speaker 3>Minnesota and got an MFA in acting. And my mentor

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<v Speaker 3>there was Charles Nolty. He directed a production of Streetcar,

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<v Speaker 3>and Tennessee came to see it.

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<v Speaker 1>What were you in this production, Debora? You were in

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<v Speaker 1>the production?

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<v Speaker 3>I was Blanche. Oh my god, I've been playing Blanche.

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<v Speaker 3>Tennessee came to see it and decided I was his

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<v Speaker 3>favorite Blanche to walk?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you kidding me? Oh my god?

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<v Speaker 3>I am Did you never hear that story? I never

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<v Speaker 3>told you even No.

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<v Speaker 1>I am obsessed with street Car name desire, and so he.

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<v Speaker 3>Wrote about me in the New York Times. You can

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<v Speaker 3>look up Wow. I think if you google Deborah Mooney

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<v Speaker 3>Tennessee Williams in New York Times, it will come up.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, Michael, I have the article right now. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to need to link to it when this episode comes out.

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<v Speaker 2>March fourth, nineteen seventy three.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we don't need to say that, do we.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>This is so what an iconic role.

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<v Speaker 2>Stella a star like.

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<v Speaker 1>Star god.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't what I would have paid to see you

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<v Speaker 2>do that part, I'm sure. I'm just so impressed at

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<v Speaker 2>the longevity of the life of an actor, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when you when we get to be around somebody who

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<v Speaker 2>has worked in theater, television, film for decades, and a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people don't get that, like a lot of you.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, it does, sadly for whatever reason, either dry

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<v Speaker 2>up or they make a different choice or whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's so impressive. How did you come into the

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<v Speaker 2>Shondaland family? Was your first Well?

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<v Speaker 3>I think Shonda must have liked ever would because so

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.560
<v Speaker 3>many of us have been called.

0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's Tom Amandy's right, Tom Amandy's who plays Governor

0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.880
<v Speaker 2>rest in April. Sarah Drew was a lead doctor on

0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:27.880
<v Speaker 2>his An Enemy for years.

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I think if Shonda says that's what I want.

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.080
<v Speaker 1>I think, Yeah, that's what I think.

0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 3>They just call you. I don't think, yeah, you audition.

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.080
<v Speaker 1>You are just a marvel in this role. And it's

0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 1>such a you know, we've been watching all these episodes

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 1>back Katie and I to do this podcast, and it's

0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.720
<v Speaker 1>just it's such a pleasure watching you work. It is

0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:52.920
<v Speaker 1>so entertaining and so satisfying. You're so remarkable in this role.

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.760
<v Speaker 1>You're just so so good, Deborah so good. Oh did

0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.320
<v Speaker 1>you know when you got the role that it was

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 1>going to be an arc?

0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.360
<v Speaker 3>No, I did not know that. I didn't have any

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:05.959
<v Speaker 3>idea what it was going to be.

0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:07.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, we'll be right back. Guys.

0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.640
<v Speaker 2>How do you have the most I want to know,

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:20.440
<v Speaker 2>iconic voice? Were you always raspy or is it from

0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.439
<v Speaker 2>just years of theater and smoking at the equity breaks?

0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 3>I was saying tenor in high school?

0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:29.959
<v Speaker 2>So you've always had a low voice.

0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.040
<v Speaker 3>I've always had a low voice. Yeah. In the choir,

0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 3>it was I was in the tenor section, you know,

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 3>I got to be with the boys.

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:38.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 2>And I've been lucky enough to work with you twice

0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 2>because you also played the judge in Inventing Anna correct

0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.560
<v Speaker 2>And I was so grateful to you because in Rachel

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Deloche Williams scenes that we got to do, which was

0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.720
<v Speaker 2>the week before shutdown in twenty twenty, that's right, I

0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.240
<v Speaker 2>had to be on the stand on crying and crying

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:06.439
<v Speaker 2>and crying and crying, and I just had, like Deborah

0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.839
<v Speaker 2>Mooney right to my left with her gavel and her

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 2>judge's gown, just holding down the court. But my god, Shonda,

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.959
<v Speaker 2>and rightfully so. I mean, she loves you. You are

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 2>a staple in the Shondaland family.

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, I love working for her and with her. I

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.080
<v Speaker 3>think she is so remarkable. I think of her all

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.960
<v Speaker 3>the time, and I think how many people she gives

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 3>work to A lot. She's amazing.

0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And she's super loyal to the people that she's

0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 1>worked with, and she you know, respects their work and

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 1>their work ethic, and she brings them back, she keeps

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.280
<v Speaker 1>them in her in her world, in her circle.

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 3>My late husband was a producer of theater of the

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 3>spoken word, and what he loved was companies, building a company.

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:03.000
<v Speaker 3>And so to me, Shonda was a perfect, perfect follow

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 3>up what I'd been in with circle rep and having

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 3>a company.

0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, Yeah, did it feel so like theater to

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 2>you when you came on the set of Scandal you

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 2>knew the scandal pace and having to be word perfect

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>and say things very fast? Did it feel like all

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.120
<v Speaker 2>of your theater training you called upon that a lot.

0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.160
<v Speaker 3>I guess, I mean it just seemed that's that's the

0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.280
<v Speaker 3>style of this show. That's what we do. You know, Yeah,

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.720
<v Speaker 3>you have to be careful you're not playing the style

0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 3>rather than the show. Do you know what I'm saying.

0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 3>If you're doing a farce, you're still that character and

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.680
<v Speaker 3>you still want to play the role, not the farce.

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 3>Do you know what I'm saying? Right right? The character

0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 3>is what's important totally.

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 2>How did it feel when you found out as scripts

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 2>kept coming, were you so like, oh my god, this

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.520
<v Speaker 2>is what I'm doing, Like we rigged an election, I'm

0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.920
<v Speaker 2>nominated to the Supreme Court? Were you just flabbergasted at

0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>your storyline?

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 3>There was an episode in her office, in her boardroom.

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.040
<v Speaker 3>I kind of thought, whoa, I think maybe I have

0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 3>something to do with all this, you know, maybe I'm

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 3>maybe I'm the one.

0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, you started to think, oh shit, is Verna

0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:31.160
<v Speaker 2>the person who who is responsible for hiring Becky to

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:32.440
<v Speaker 2>assassinate the president?

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes? Yes, Verna really so juicy?

0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:44.640
<v Speaker 2>How did they fit your glorious hair underneath the bald

0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 2>cap and get it to look so good.

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 3>The first time? It took six hours?

0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 1>What? Oh yeah, I.

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.880
<v Speaker 3>Went there at like three years in the morning. What

0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 3>they got it down to like four?

0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.359
<v Speaker 1>Did that help you get into character even more Debora

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.159
<v Speaker 1>being having that bald head and just everything that she

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 1>was going through and having your you had your oxygen

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.480
<v Speaker 1>mask and the tubes, like I'm sure all of that

0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>sort of helped.

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it certainly made me feel kind of frail. Do

0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean?

0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 1>Mm hm, I mean watching you take breaths from that

0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.800
<v Speaker 1>oxygen mask. It's just it's heartbreaking. In this particular episode

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:28.200
<v Speaker 1>that we're talking about.

0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Today, vice versa. The other side of Verna Thornton too,

0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I love that we're watching a woman who

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.960
<v Speaker 2>is deteriorating in front of our very eyes. You have

0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:43.119
<v Speaker 2>a very terminal illness that is taking over quick you know.

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.600
<v Speaker 2>We see the flashbacks to the scenes where you tell

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.400
<v Speaker 2>your doctor, I I'm being put on the bench tomorrow

0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 2>and how long do I have and he says a year,

0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 2>maybe two, And we watch this all happen so quickly.

0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.680
<v Speaker 2>But the other side of it is how amazing Verna

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Thornton looked in all of her suits and your hair

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 2>all blown out, when you're like sitting at the table

0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 2>in Air Force one and you all are making the

0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.240
<v Speaker 2>decision to rig the election, You and Hollis and Mellie

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and Olivia, how powerful she was and how like strong,

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm ready to do a deal with the devil to

0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.760
<v Speaker 2>get my seat. You know that that was the most

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 2>important thing for your career to culminate into a Supreme

0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Court justice.

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 3>I just loved playing Erna Thornton, I really did. I

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.600
<v Speaker 3>was so sorry when she got when she was gonna

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 3>get killed off because that, Yeah, I just hated the loser.

0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:45.120
<v Speaker 3>But it was quite spectacular depth too, so.

0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:45.800
<v Speaker 2>It was a great death and a great run.

0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember all of us hanging out at Jeff

0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.560
<v Speaker 1>Perry and Linda Lowe's house watched.

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.160
<v Speaker 3>I went to one of them and then I thought,

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.199
<v Speaker 3>I don't think I can watch that with other people.

0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:57.439
<v Speaker 3>I think I better watch it.

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I remember the one that you were. We

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.879
<v Speaker 1>had such a great time, but I remember you and

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 1>all of us being so sad and so emotional that

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.399
<v Speaker 1>you were going to be you know that your character

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.680
<v Speaker 1>was being killed off in the in the next episode.

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember that? And we were all like, yeah,

0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 1>but it was such a wonderful like gathering. We all

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:17.840
<v Speaker 1>got to spend time together and it was just.

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:19.840
<v Speaker 3>Like, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't it?

0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:22.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it was just it was such a pleasant group

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.120
<v Speaker 3>of people to be with, wasn't it.

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.480
<v Speaker 2>It was a great troop. It was a great real

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:30.879
<v Speaker 2>lot of theater actors.

0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, and it was a kind of special time. I

0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.639
<v Speaker 3>thought it was a special time in the second season

0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.720
<v Speaker 3>because I was new to it the second season, but

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 3>the other people that had been working together were beginning

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.600
<v Speaker 3>to know each other, and there were those of us

0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 3>that were coming in for the first time in this season,

0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 3>and so it was still biting its way, and yet

0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.200
<v Speaker 3>there was enough of having known each other that there

0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 3>was this solidity about it.

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.199
<v Speaker 3>I just think it's a real special time when you

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.000
<v Speaker 3>get to do not the first maybe, but early on

0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:08.040
<v Speaker 3>in the theory.

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and the show was getting successful like the second Yeah,

0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 2>like you.

0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.879
<v Speaker 3>Said, it was, it was a very exciting time.

0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:16.199
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was.

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it totally was.

0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Had you watched the show before you were casting it?

0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 3>No, I hadn't seen it. I don't watch a lot

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.159
<v Speaker 3>of television. I was busy doing it, you know what

0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:27.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean?

0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly working.

0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:30.959
<v Speaker 3>Because that was a real busy time.

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.560
<v Speaker 1>I think sometimes when I've done TV shows that I

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.960
<v Speaker 1>haven't watched my work is better because if I've seen

0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:38.880
<v Speaker 1>the show, then I get sort of, you know.

0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:40.960
<v Speaker 2>An idea of what it's supposed to be.

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, especially if I like the If I end up

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.239
<v Speaker 1>loving the show, then I have this I put this

0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.320
<v Speaker 1>pressure on myself, so I like when I haven't seen it,

0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.199
<v Speaker 1>and then I, you know, jump in and do my

0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 1>work and do my best.

0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah. And like part of a response to your

0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.240
<v Speaker 3>question about getting into the speed and everything like that,

0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:04.480
<v Speaker 3>I wasn't worried about intimidated or anything because I didn't

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.080
<v Speaker 3>know that that's what happened.

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Right right, you were just paced up already.

0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.919
<v Speaker 3>Oh I'm gonna have to be real FASTO. Yeah, I

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:13.359
<v Speaker 3>didn't know.

0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:19.120
<v Speaker 2>We are so lucky to have Verna Thornton, the one

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.720
<v Speaker 2>and only Deberny. On today's episode, we are talking about

0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:28.439
<v Speaker 2>episode two thirteen, which was called Nobody Likes Babies, and

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.560
<v Speaker 2>it aired on February seventh of twenty thirteen, and.

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.960
<v Speaker 1>It was written by Mark Wilding and directed by the

0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Tom Verica.

0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, I had no idea Tom Verica directed

0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 2>this episode. It is guest starring Deborah Mooney as Verna Thornton,

0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Susan poorfar as Becky Flynn. Dan Mugatinski is James Novak,

0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:51.360
<v Speaker 2>George Newburn is Charlie, Greg Henry is Hollis Doyle.

0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.720
<v Speaker 1>Norm Lewis is Senator Edison Davis, Brenda Song as Alyssa,

0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Sam McMurray as a US attorney, Pat Wexler Samantha Sloy

0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.520
<v Speaker 1>and his Janie, and Colin Douglas as Steve Dougherty.

0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:04.879
<v Speaker 2>And just to jog you all about what happens. And

0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 2>then we got to talk to our very own Verna

0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.879
<v Speaker 2>Thornton before she leaves the show about her epic epic

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 2>death and destruction and how she does gone crazy on

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.320
<v Speaker 2>this plot line. Synopsis for this episode. When the truth

0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.920
<v Speaker 2>comes out that Verna was the one who hired Becky, Olivia,

0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.560
<v Speaker 2>still reeling from the betrayal, rallies the team to steal

0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.720
<v Speaker 2>David Rosen's evidence in the looming defiance case.

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.200
<v Speaker 1>The pressures on is Verna dies suddenly and James is

0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.359
<v Speaker 1>subpoena to appear in court. In two last ditch efforts,

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Abby professes her love to David, and Cyrus considers having

0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.159
<v Speaker 1>James murdered before he can testify. Fortunately, James lies on

0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.160
<v Speaker 1>the stand and Abby manages to steal the defiance evidence,

0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:45.760
<v Speaker 1>even if it costs her the relationship with David.

0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Then, during Verna's funeral, Fits ices out Olivia as we

0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:52.840
<v Speaker 2>learn what really happened in the hospital, Verna confessed about

0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:57.080
<v Speaker 2>defiance and Fitz killed her to prevent her from going public.

0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:02.960
<v Speaker 2>This episode is so freaking epic.

0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:08.639
<v Speaker 1>It's beyond the fact that the that we see fits

0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:13.119
<v Speaker 1>the president kill another character on the show was just

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 1>mind blowing. It's one of the first times that I thought, Okay,

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.480
<v Speaker 1>this show, it's a whole thing on its own, Like

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.560
<v Speaker 1>it's it takes risk, and Seana is not afraid to

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 1>go there. Like I was completely floored when this happened,

0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Like when I read this.

0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:31.879
<v Speaker 2>Right, Deborah, do you remember shooting the scenes in this

0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:35.520
<v Speaker 2>episode that you had when you are your character has

0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:40.399
<v Speaker 2>called in David Rosen to tell him that the election

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>was rigged, But first your character calls in the president

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 2>because you said you wanted him to hear it from

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:52.199
<v Speaker 2>Verna first, Right, What the hell was that like?

0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:52.760
<v Speaker 1>To shoot?

0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, it was pretty incredible. I mean it all felt

0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 3>very real that she would have the ancience way on

0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:05.919
<v Speaker 3>her and would decide to come clean, and that she

0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.119
<v Speaker 3>would let him. Know first, it makes sense to me.

0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:12.280
<v Speaker 1>How is it working with Tony Goldwyn? Was that a thrill?

0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:14.639
<v Speaker 3>I loved it? I just loved Tony. I mean, oh,

0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:16.760
<v Speaker 3>can you believe me? Up and kills me?

0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and he holds your arms down. It's so awful.

0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:24.760
<v Speaker 3>I helpe get him elected.

0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:29.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, come, yes, yes, ingrate, ingrate, Yeah, but then

0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:31.520
<v Speaker 2>you did try to get him assassinated?

0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:34.560
<v Speaker 3>Is that? Well? You know?

0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:39.120
<v Speaker 2>This episode is so full. I mean, besides the incredible

0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:44.199
<v Speaker 2>Verna stuff, this episode also has in it this huge epic.

0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:47.280
<v Speaker 2>One of my favorite all time scandal scenes of all

0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:52.639
<v Speaker 2>time is a scene between Dan Bugatinski and Jeff Perry

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.439
<v Speaker 2>and they both have this huge argument where James is

0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:00.600
<v Speaker 2>asking Cyrus, did you rig the election? I've been subpoena

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:02.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'm supposed to testify and I need to know

0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:05.600
<v Speaker 2>did you or didn't you? And Cyrus says, take off

0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:08.159
<v Speaker 2>all your clothes? How am I supposed to know? If

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 2>you don't, if you're not bugged, if you don't have

0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:11.000
<v Speaker 2>a MIC on you.

0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.720
<v Speaker 1>Which Katie you noticed. He says, take off your clothes,

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.320
<v Speaker 1>which is a throwback to when Fitz says to Olivia,

0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:18.720
<v Speaker 1>take off your clothes, but obviously this is a completely

0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:20.960
<v Speaker 1>different context, and.

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.400
<v Speaker 2>So James takes off all of his clothes and then

0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 2>he says, you take off your clothes like I don't

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:29.159
<v Speaker 2>know if you're miked, And so they have this epically long,

0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 2>five minute, twelve page one act that they're both naked,

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 2>where Cyrus admits and says, I was never going to

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:44.000
<v Speaker 2>be president. I'm not pretty enough, I like boys, I'm sure,

0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:47.040
<v Speaker 2>and I don't have the right things to make up

0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:49.080
<v Speaker 2>of a president. But this is the closest I was

0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:51.879
<v Speaker 2>ever going to get that I could be the second best,

0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:55.119
<v Speaker 2>that I would be able to sway some things in

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:57.359
<v Speaker 2>the White House, that I would be the chief of staff.

0:25:57.359 --> 0:26:01.840
<v Speaker 2>And so I did. I stole the election. It's an

0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:08.400
<v Speaker 2>amazing scene and so beautifully acted by both actors and

0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:12.960
<v Speaker 2>one of my all time favorite favorite favorite acting scenes.

0:26:13.400 --> 0:26:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh same, another super super like epic scenes was a

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:21.080
<v Speaker 1>scene where that you have with Olivia with Kerrie Washington, Deborah,

0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:22.879
<v Speaker 1>how was it? How was it working with Carrie? Had

0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:24.000
<v Speaker 1>you met Carrie before?

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:26.399
<v Speaker 3>No? I just loved her.

0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, you two had a chemistry and the relationship between Olivia.

0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:36.480
<v Speaker 3>Did did I did? I really just adored her? From

0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 3>the time I met her. She's some the beautiful woman

0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:39.679
<v Speaker 3>you know.

0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but the history, you too, created this incredible history.

0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 1>It was effortless.

0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.879
<v Speaker 2>It seemed like you two had been in each other's

0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 2>corners for a long time. Yeah, the hell out of

0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:54.719
<v Speaker 2>each other for a long time. Like even in the

0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:58.120
<v Speaker 2>beginning of this season, no one else knows that Vernon

0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.919
<v Speaker 2>Thornton's sick, and Pope is the only one that comes

0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:04.080
<v Speaker 2>and like sits with you in the hospital while you're

0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 2>getting your chemo treatment, and she turns off her phone,

0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.240
<v Speaker 2>which she never does. And there are so many times

0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:17.199
<v Speaker 2>where Verna gives Olivia Pope advice about like that she

0:27:17.440 --> 0:27:19.919
<v Speaker 2>listened to you, Olivia listened to you.

0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:22.399
<v Speaker 1>But this scene, in this scene in particular, when she

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:25.720
<v Speaker 1>goes to confront you about because she figures out with

0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Opa that you have paid Becky to assassinate the president,

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:32.600
<v Speaker 1>that scene is just so powerful. But then we also

0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:36.440
<v Speaker 1>learned that Verna was doing it ultimately for the good

0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.240
<v Speaker 1>of the country, do you know what I mean? She's like, well,

0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:43.040
<v Speaker 1>if I killed him, then the country will then re

0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:47.200
<v Speaker 1>elect a president that will will be rightly you know, elected,

0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:51.560
<v Speaker 1>just exactly. So of course she decided to kill the president,

0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:53.639
<v Speaker 1>but she was doing it for the good of the country.

0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Such a powerful scene. And when Olivia's hearing you say

0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 1>those things, and at the end you say something to her,

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 1>you say, chin up, Olivia. It's not like I'm getting

0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:05.120
<v Speaker 1>away with it, you know. Obviously she's on her way

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:08.640
<v Speaker 1>out of this world. Oh it was just heartbreaking.

0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, man, Deborah Mooney, you had us in the palm

0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.000
<v Speaker 2>of your hands. The other part of this episode, I

0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:20.320
<v Speaker 2>have to mention there's a few. There's the huge Cyrus

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:25.800
<v Speaker 2>James naked fight, there's the presidential murder of Verna Thornton,

0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:30.080
<v Speaker 2>and then the third for me is that Abby played

0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:33.960
<v Speaker 2>by Darby Stansfield, goes and even though she's in love

0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:38.560
<v Speaker 2>with David Rosen, she says, I love you, has sex

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:41.200
<v Speaker 2>with him, and when he leaves to go to the

0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:43.520
<v Speaker 2>court for the day, she does end up breaking into

0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:46.120
<v Speaker 2>his safe and stealing the only evidence he has that

0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:49.760
<v Speaker 2>the election was rigged. He has the Cytron card, and

0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:51.960
<v Speaker 2>he comes back to Opa at the end and says,

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Abby Wheelin, you took the card. You took the card.

0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:56.040
<v Speaker 2>She's like, I did it, I did it, and he's like,

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:57.800
<v Speaker 2>you tricked me. You said I loved you, and she

0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:00.520
<v Speaker 2>says I do. I do love you, David, and he

0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:03.160
<v Speaker 2>basically like, I'm never speaking to you again. I hate you.

0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:07.160
<v Speaker 2>He storms out, and Abby just starts breaking down and says, like,

0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I did it. I did get the card. And you

0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 2>see that Abby chose to be a gladiator at Opa

0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:17.320
<v Speaker 2>versus being with the love of her life. She makes

0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:21.400
<v Speaker 2>a massive sacrifice to Olivia.

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 3>They were good, strong stories, weren't they.

0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Deborah. It's in like all the stuff we're talking about

0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:30.560
<v Speaker 2>happened in one.

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Episodes.

0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wow, we will be back with more after the break.

0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember, Deborah in previous episodes where you give

0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:49.880
<v Speaker 1>Kate Burton's character Sally Langston Huck's name, saying that Huck

0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:53.000
<v Speaker 1>is the one that is responsible for killing the president.

0:29:53.040 --> 0:29:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember that? And then Huck gets waterboarded. I

0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:59.160
<v Speaker 1>was always so bummed that I didn't get to act

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:02.520
<v Speaker 1>with you in I mean, we you know, our characters interacted.

0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.560
<v Speaker 3>But I am too, I am too. I would have

0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 3>loved that.

0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:10.760
<v Speaker 2>When you shot your last take as Erna, what were

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.440
<v Speaker 2>the feelings, what was the emotion?

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:20.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, there's certainly a sadness about the character, but there's

0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:25.080
<v Speaker 3>also I think I felt like it had been a

0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 3>story well told. I enjoyed doing it. The scripts were good,

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:35.360
<v Speaker 3>and there's such a satisfaction in getting to do something.

0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Like that, and that it's gonna live on, right, I mean,

0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>it's gonna live on forever.

0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:40.959
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. People are rewatching the show now on Hulu and

0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:47.160
<v Speaker 1>just sort of getting reintroduced, and some people are watching

0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:53.080
<v Speaker 1>it for the first time. So Verna's gonna live on forever. Verna.

0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:55.440
<v Speaker 1>How was it shooting that scene where you had to

0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:58.120
<v Speaker 1>be in the coffin? That was so unsettling.

0:30:57.600 --> 0:30:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Because at the end of this episode, the very end

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:04.400
<v Speaker 2>of the episode, Carrie comes in and says, I did it.

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:10.560
<v Speaker 2>I've given Edison back the ring, I've called off the engage.

0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:12.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be with him, and I will

0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:14.520
<v Speaker 2>wait for you. Fits. In the beginning of the episode,

0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Fitz says to Olivia, I'm leaving, Mellie. It might take

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 2>a minute, it might be dirty, but I'm done. Will

0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:21.320
<v Speaker 2>you wait for me? Will you wait for me? And

0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.800
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the episode, at your funeral, she

0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:26.760
<v Speaker 2>goes up to him and she says, I did it, Fits,

0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:29.400
<v Speaker 2>and I will I've decided like I will wait for you,

0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:34.240
<v Speaker 2>And Fitz says, now that he knows that you all

0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:38.000
<v Speaker 2>ring to the election, he says, never mind. No, It's

0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:40.440
<v Speaker 2>one thing to sleep with your mistress, is another thing

0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:43.600
<v Speaker 2>to marry her. He gives like a really low, horrible,

0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:47.280
<v Speaker 2>fucked up blow and Olivia's just devastated because she feels

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:49.840
<v Speaker 2>so vulnerable and she finally made a choice. And then

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:53.560
<v Speaker 2>he gets up and gives your eulogy. Oh, I know

0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 2>which is over you in this casket, and you look

0:31:57.520 --> 0:31:59.400
<v Speaker 2>fierce as hell, like I was.

0:31:59.360 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Saying before you so beautiful.

0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, your hair had the most glorious blowout. Your makeup

0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:07.360
<v Speaker 2>looked amazing. I don't know what glorious suit land Polo

0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 2>put you in, but you looked incredible.

0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 3>I loved that suit that I wore, gorgeous.

0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Did you get to keep anything from set?

0:32:15.040 --> 0:32:18.480
<v Speaker 3>No, I didn't really. There was a black skirt that

0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:22.160
<v Speaker 3>I wore that I loved. I did go and find.

0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:25.520
<v Speaker 1>It good good, good good. And so that scene where

0:32:25.520 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 1>we see Verna in the coffin is sort of we're

0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:30.840
<v Speaker 1>jumping from that scene to the president and then we

0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:34.800
<v Speaker 1>finally see that fits Fitz kills Verna, and we're going

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:37.640
<v Speaker 1>back and forth from him talking to you and you

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:40.480
<v Speaker 1>telling him that you guys read the election. And it's

0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:43.280
<v Speaker 1>so powerful because there he is giving your eulogy and

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 1>at the same time we're seeing him like murder you.

0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:49.760
<v Speaker 2>He's just lying. He's saying like all these loving, funny,

0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:52.760
<v Speaker 2>no amazing things about verna.

0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh. I thought that was a brilliant writing, really, because

0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:00.680
<v Speaker 3>his usualgy is so when you know the truth is

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 3>just so incredible that you could say those things.

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, did you ever fall asleep in the casket?

0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 3>No? I said, Now, it'll be half closed and half open.

0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:17.080
<v Speaker 3>Is that right, I asked before I went up there,

0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:22.360
<v Speaker 3>and they said yes, And I said, which half? Hey,

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:26.400
<v Speaker 3>she's got great legs. No, So I knew I was

0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:28.800
<v Speaker 3>going to have some room, and I knew nobody's going

0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:31.520
<v Speaker 3>to be coming up and talking to me because they're

0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 3>all out there and the casket was up on a thing,

0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 3>so I'm not going to have any visitors. So I

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 3>took my crossword puzzle, my New York Times crossword puzzle

0:33:43.760 --> 0:33:44.160
<v Speaker 3>I took.

0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 4>I took all kinds of activities. I have an activity

0:33:48.960 --> 0:33:51.400
<v Speaker 4>bag that I take with me when I got work,

0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 4>and I had lots of activities that I could choose from.

0:33:57.480 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 3>In fact, the camera mat at one boy it said

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:03.560
<v Speaker 3>something about have you had a hamburger in there? I said, yeah,

0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 3>you want bus.

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:08.799
<v Speaker 2>That's so funny, Debora. So you could just hide it

0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:10.120
<v Speaker 2>in the casket, and.

0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:14.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I had also because I didn't want to, like

0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:16.200
<v Speaker 3>you said, I'm in a casket.

0:34:16.480 --> 0:34:18.640
<v Speaker 1>No, yeah, you didn't want to think about it too much.

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean Burnon isn't thinking about it.

0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Right, Deborah. I do this thing on the podcast where

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:29.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm obsessed with horror movies, and when I looked your

0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:32.400
<v Speaker 1>your work up, I saw that you did an episode

0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 1>of Tales from the Crypt.

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:36.919
<v Speaker 3>Eh. Yes, I had a hatchet in my head.

0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. You played a character named Ellen and

0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Tails from the Crypt. It was one of my favorite shows.

0:34:42.560 --> 0:34:43.960
<v Speaker 1>It was like an anthology show.

0:34:44.160 --> 0:34:46.439
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember that? Do you remember that show? Yes?

0:34:46.600 --> 0:34:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Of course, do you remember that experience? What that was like?

0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:54.800
<v Speaker 3>Oh gosh, yes. First of all, I'm a bit cluster phobe,

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:57.719
<v Speaker 3>quite cluster phobic, and I had to go out to

0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.240
<v Speaker 3>this place I forget where it was a ways away,

0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:04.720
<v Speaker 3>and they cover you totally.

0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:07.000
<v Speaker 1>To make a cast of your face, right.

0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 3>A cast of your face, so that they can bury

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:10.839
<v Speaker 3>the hatchet as.

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:12.000
<v Speaker 1>It were exactly.

0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:16.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. That really was terrifying. And so there was that

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:19.759
<v Speaker 3>to deal with it. And then the day of my

0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 3>parents were in town and they came with me and

0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 3>they got me all into costume and and they got

0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:31.000
<v Speaker 3>the whole thing on with the hatchet, which was heavy.

0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right in your forehead. Yeah.

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:34.800
<v Speaker 3>And then they called lunch.

0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 1>No, Oh my god, I.

0:35:39.000 --> 0:35:41.360
<v Speaker 3>Had to go across the street and eat at a

0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:45.040
<v Speaker 3>Chinese restaurant with a hatchet in my head and I

0:35:45.120 --> 0:35:47.480
<v Speaker 3>had to hold it like this because it was a heavy,

0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:47.960
<v Speaker 3>you know.

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:53.360
<v Speaker 3>I had to sit at the table and hold it

0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.040
<v Speaker 3>with my parents.

0:35:56.080 --> 0:35:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. I love that story.

0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:04.319
<v Speaker 2>By Deborah. Okay, so a couple things. One, we got

0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:14.359
<v Speaker 2>a BodyCount edition Verna Thornton. We've had Gideon Wallace got

0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:18.600
<v Speaker 2>stabbed in the neck with scissors, Amanda Tanner was killed

0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 2>via injection and then dropped in the Potomac, and now

0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Deborah Mooney was murdered by the President himself through I

0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:31.040
<v Speaker 2>guess asphyxiation. Yeah, so we are adding Verna Thornton as

0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:34.360
<v Speaker 2>our third member of the Scandal podcast body Count. And

0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:37.799
<v Speaker 2>another fun fact, this is why this episode is so incredible.

0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:42.000
<v Speaker 2>When Scandal was renewed for a second season, the network

0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:46.839
<v Speaker 2>ABC only ordered thirteen episodes. This episode was originally meant

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:52.120
<v Speaker 2>to be the season finale, but after receiving high ratings

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.200
<v Speaker 2>within the first few episodes of the season, ABC quickly

0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:59.200
<v Speaker 2>ordered a full twenty two episode season. Oh but this

0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.319
<v Speaker 2>episode feels like like anally.

0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 3>It does feels like I didn't know that.

0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:12.480
<v Speaker 2>It feels like cliffhangers and wrapping up of intense things

0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:19.640
<v Speaker 2>and and it's jam packed and it's just amazing now

0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:24.239
<v Speaker 2>tweets at the time, tweets with the one I know

0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:29.640
<v Speaker 2>the demoney, Oh, we have a whole like thing going

0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:33.480
<v Speaker 2>on now, we're doing like picture me, like pictures of

0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Beyonce just saying Olivia girl, I need help. They saying

0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:40.759
<v Speaker 2>I lip synced. Oh, somebody at the time must have

0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:43.320
<v Speaker 2>been accusing Beyonce of lip singing, which I don't remember

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:46.480
<v Speaker 2>what was happening either. There was a lot of obvious

0:37:46.520 --> 0:37:49.319
<v Speaker 2>problems at the time of this episode coming out that

0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Beyonce was being accused of lip singings. Oh, I think

0:37:52.880 --> 0:37:55.200
<v Speaker 2>the national anthem. If I heard.

0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:57.399
<v Speaker 3>That, I was wondering. I think it might have been

0:37:57.440 --> 0:37:58.840
<v Speaker 3>the national anthem.

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, And then a lot of people are tweeting

0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:06.640
<v Speaker 2>pictures in response that Olivia Pope is saying it's handled by.

0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:09.080
<v Speaker 1>All to Beyonce and then thanks girl.

0:38:09.520 --> 0:38:12.120
<v Speaker 2>At Maya La Shawn tweeted, am I the only woman

0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 2>who does not watch scandal? Hashtag it won't be hashtag

0:38:16.160 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 2>guard your heart? Hashtag Olivia Pope is nothing like Judy Smith.

0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:24.960
<v Speaker 1>But you're tweeting with us? Why are you tweeting with us?

0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Then listen? Can I just say real quick? If I

0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:29.160
<v Speaker 1>was tweeting right now during this time, I would have

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:32.440
<v Speaker 1>tweeted that Deborah Mooney was in a production of Street

0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:36.879
<v Speaker 1>Carname Desires Blanche Dubois and Tennessee Williams was there in

0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:38.480
<v Speaker 1>person like my mind it.

0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Said she was the greatest Blanche of all the bland.

0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:44.839
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I'm going to go to bed with such a

0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:48.600
<v Speaker 1>huge smile on my face and just that makes me

0:38:48.719 --> 0:38:52.239
<v Speaker 1>so so happy. What an incredible experience it certainly was.

0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:56.800
<v Speaker 2>We are so lucky to have you on Unpacking the Toolbox,

0:38:56.840 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 2>and the Gladiators were so lucky that you were Thornton.

0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:04.359
<v Speaker 2>Because the second season is really when the show took

0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:08.080
<v Speaker 2>off and when the ratings came and Scandal became what

0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 2>it is, and I am convinced wholeheartedly that is so

0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:13.960
<v Speaker 2>much in part because of you and your performance and

0:39:14.000 --> 0:39:14.719
<v Speaker 2>your portrail.

0:39:16.080 --> 0:39:16.520
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:18.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm obsessed with you.

0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, come on over, have some brunch, right, I would

0:39:21.160 --> 0:39:22.880
<v Speaker 2>love that Deborah Mooney brunch.

0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:24.400
<v Speaker 1>But wait, bring the champagne.

0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 2>But also gladiators. I just want to let you know

0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:29.160
<v Speaker 2>real quick. Next up, episode two fourteen, which is called

0:39:29.200 --> 0:39:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. We don't remember what it's about, but

0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:35.600
<v Speaker 2>don't worry. We'll be watching it to make sure we

0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:37.879
<v Speaker 2>do remember and can talk to you all about all

0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:40.800
<v Speaker 2>the behind the scenes goings on. Thank you for listening,

0:39:40.800 --> 0:39:46.680
<v Speaker 2>and one more massive, massive round of applause for the

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:50.520
<v Speaker 2>one and only Deborah Mooneyah, gentlemen, the greatest of the great.

0:39:51.520 --> 0:39:51.960
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.

0:39:57.000 --> 0:40:00.600
<v Speaker 1>If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,

0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:01.720
<v Speaker 1>or leave us a review.

0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alcea, Lauren Homan,

0:40:06.120 --> 0:40:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is

0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.

0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can

0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 1>follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.

0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:20.759
<v Speaker 2>Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in

0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:25.160
<v Speaker 2>partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit

0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:37.360
<v Speaker 2>the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.