1 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 2: Hey there are podcast listeners. 4 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: I'm Monga's starticular ak Mango, and Will is off today. 5 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: But I've gotten an incredible treat for you. If you've 6 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: listened to the show, you know how much I loved 7 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: Nickelodeon as a kid. My friends and I in third 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 2: grade used to practice for Doubledare every day in the summer, 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 2: just waiting for the execs to call spoiler alert. They 10 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: never did, but I love the way Nickelodeon felt like 11 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: it was talking to me and really providing this channel 12 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: for me. 13 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: And then years later it was the same with MTV 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: and then Comedy Central, and weirdly enough, these channels were 15 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: something that I thought a lot about when Will and 16 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: I founded Mental Flaws years and years ago. Anyway, the 17 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: reason I am telling you any of this is that 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: for today's show, I am interviewing the wonderful Tom Freston, 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: one of the co founders of a scrappy little TV 20 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: channel called MTV, which grew into a massive, massive bohemo. 21 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: From MTV, he became president of MTV Networks, guiding Nickelodeon 22 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: VH one, Comedy Central, TV Land and all these other 23 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: channels through incredible eras of creativity. He is such a 24 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: hero to me. Then he became CEO Viacom. But the 25 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: truth is, none of this is the most interesting stuff 26 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: about him. After college, he hitchhiked across northern Africa. He 27 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: spent years in India running a clothing company. He even 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: helped launch a media network in Afghanistan. He is a 29 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: world traveler, a philanthropist, and best of all, he is 30 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: an incredible, incredible storyteller. So I was really excited when 31 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: he agreed to sit down with me and talk about 32 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: his new book. It's called Unplugged Adventures from MTV to Timbucktoo. 33 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 1: It is so good, such a wonderful read, and we're 34 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: going to talk about it here. Let's dive in. 35 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: So I'm here with Tom Preston, author of Unplugged Adventures 36 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: from MTV to Timbuck two. It's out now. It is 37 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 3: an extraordinary book. I've got to say, this book reminded 38 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 3: me of two books I really love. One is The 39 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: Man Who Time Forgot and another one called Barbarian Days. 40 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: And Barbarian Days is about like surfing and chasing this 41 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 3: high of travel in a way. And the Man who 42 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: Time Forgot is about britt Hadden, who was the co 43 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 3: founder of Time magazine, and the way that they were 44 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 3: just so creative and inventive in the way they started 45 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 3: that magazine and so like, there's something about both of 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: those that really was inspiring to me. But first I 47 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 3: want to start with just who this book is made 48 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 3: out to. It's made out to your brother and your sons. 49 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 3: Can you tell me about why you dedicated to them? 50 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 4: Well, I love my sons, that's obvious and it would 51 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 4: be true for any father. And my dear brother who 52 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 4: was my only sibling. He was a couple of years 53 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 4: younger than me. He helped me out a lot in life, 54 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 4: and he had a tragic death this last winter in 55 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 4: the Caribbean. He fell down a flight of stairs. I mean, 56 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 4: you never know when it hits you, and kind of 57 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 4: went into a coma and never came out. 58 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 3: And what do you want your sons to know from 59 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: this book about your life? 60 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 4: That their life is full of possibility, that they don't 61 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 4: have to be trapped into one thing. They can change 62 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 4: lines and find things that are maybe suited for them. 63 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 4: This is a time of great change in the employment area, 64 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 4: and a lot of businesses that have sort of lost 65 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 4: their luster, new ones that are emerging, and they should 66 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 4: not be afraid to start different chapters in their lives. 67 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: I love that, you know. I love openings of books. 68 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 3: And the opening to your book starts with the chainsaw, 69 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 3: which is just such an incredible image. Can you can 70 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: you talk a little bit about why you started your 71 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 3: book there? 72 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 4: Well, I started my book because the opening scene is 73 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 4: me getting fired after you know, twenty six years at 74 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 4: this company, the company that started MTV and evolved into 75 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 4: something so much bigger, to several incarnations, and the chainsaw 76 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 4: was sent to me years earlier. This is sometime in 77 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 4: the nineties by the heavy metal band Anthrax. You know, 78 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 4: they were heavy metal band. They'd all autographed it, and 79 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 4: I used to get a lot of you know, gold 80 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 4: records since that jacket, stuff like that. But this was 81 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 4: a useful gift. And I was clearing out my office 82 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 4: after I got fired. I got fired in Los Angeles. 83 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 4: I came back to New York and I only wanted 84 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 4: to take a few things that were sentimental. But I 85 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 4: thought besides the sentimental photos and whatnot, you know, I 86 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 4: could use that chain, so I didn't have one, and 87 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 4: it'd be a useful gift, So I put it in 88 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 4: a banker's box with a few other things that was 89 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 4: a small one, and made my way down the elevator 90 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 4: to a lobby to exit. 91 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 3: You talk about the exit from Viacom and you merge 92 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: there and they're just a sea of people waiting to 93 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: say goodbye to you, and love for you is palpable. 94 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: And it's funny because one of the producers on this 95 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: show worked at Comedy Central after you'd left, and she says, 96 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: like people still talk fondly about the Tom Freston era, 97 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 3: which is so sweet and also just a testament to 98 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 3: like all the fun and excitement and things you brought there. 99 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 4: Well, we had a really unique culture, and I always 100 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 4: put the idea of us having a creative culture and 101 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 4: innovative culture really in the forefront. Is as how I 102 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 4: wanted this company to be, to edgy, to be you know, 103 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 4: casual and non hierarchical and risk taking and a place 104 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 4: at treasured creativity. And in my exit, as CNBC said, 105 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 4: there was like a thousand people in the lobby cheering 106 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 4: me on, cheering me out, give me a Heroes exit. 107 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 4: I had thought I could just sneak out, you know, 108 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 4: I have a bit of the imposter syndrome and a 109 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 4: mask had been ripped off now and I was depressed, 110 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 4: no doubt about it. But this gave me a great 111 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 4: lift off that still stays with me. I remember getting down, 112 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 4: getting through the lobby was all in slow motion. Down 113 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 4: the escalator into Times Square. I too my stuff into 114 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 4: a taxi got in rolled by the Broadway theaters, and 115 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 4: I said, you know, that was a good way to go. 116 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 3: It's such an incredible career and obviously not where it stopped, 117 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 3: because there are so many amazing things that go on 118 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 3: after that. But take me back to the beginning of 119 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 3: your first interactions with TV and what meant to have 120 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 3: a TV in the household initially. 121 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 4: Well, I kind of grew up in a Leave It 122 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 4: to Beaver Way, if people out there remember what that 123 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 4: was about. That was sort of an all American post 124 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,559 Speaker 4: war family, two brothers, a mother, and a husband, stay 125 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 4: at home mom. I grew up in the fifties. I 126 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 4: was an early baby boomer, and you know, television came 127 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 4: out black and white. We had one TV and we 128 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 4: would sit around and watch the shows of the day, 129 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 4: and you know, I mean one of the great moments 130 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 4: was in nineteen fifty six sitting around my family and 131 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: seeing Elvis Presley on the Ed Sullivan Show. I think 132 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: there was like sixty million people watching. It was like 133 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 4: like the Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show years later, 134 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 4: but it was like a hurricane passed through the room, 135 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 4: and my mother and father were disgusted. My brother and 136 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 4: I were elated, and we kind of knew. I was 137 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 4: in sixth grade, we kind of knew that we were 138 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 4: going to grow up in a different world, with our 139 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 4: own music, with our own clothes, with our own style, 140 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 4: and we were sort of part of a new generation 141 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 4: that was really setting sale from the prior one, the 142 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 4: generation they would call the Great American Generation, the people 143 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 4: who fought in World War two and so forth. So 144 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 4: television was always there, and I followed a lot of 145 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 4: the shows, but I was in truth more interested in 146 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: the music of the era and spent a lot more 147 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 4: time listening to the early rock and roll radio stations. 148 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: You know, one of the things that I've heard a 149 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: lot about the early MTV days is that most of 150 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: the people were hired were people who hated television. Did 151 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: you fall into that category? 152 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 4: Well, when I got my job interview, they said, you know, 153 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 4: we're looking for people with absolutely no experience in television, 154 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 4: which is an unlikely line at a television company. But 155 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 4: it was the early stays of the cable programming era 156 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 4: and we were sort of the tip of the speer 157 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 4: out there with CNN, ESPN and cable was really just beginning. 158 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 4: It was mostly in rural areas, but they couldn't afford 159 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 4: to hire people who worked at the broadcast networks. There 160 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 4: was really only three or four places to work in 161 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 4: those days if you include PBS, and they didn't want 162 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 4: anyone bringing along any kind of expensive production habits, so 163 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 4: we had to sort of start from scratch, an event 164 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 4: from zero, And in retrospect, it was a brilliant move 165 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 4: to hire school teachers and people from radio stations and 166 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 4: record companies and me I came out of eight years 167 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 4: of living in Afghanistan and India, so it was a 168 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 4: great mixing pot of eccentrics and people who wouldn't normally 169 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 4: work in any kind of normal company. And we were 170 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 4: all on crusade either to you know, take Nickelodeon or 171 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 4: MTV across the nation and infuse it with our own 172 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 4: spirit and make it a very obvious counterpoint to the 173 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 4: traditional program that was being done on the networks. We 174 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 4: were the early narrow casters, as we were known, just 175 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 4: programming one thing to one audience as opposed to general 176 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 4: interest stuff like ABC, NBC and CBS. 177 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: It's funny, there's like an old Garfield comic where they're 178 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: joking about narrowcasting and talking about like a food network, 179 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: and it's just a picture of lasagna, and I'm like 180 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 3: a picture of like a refrigerator or whatever, and not 181 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 3: really realizing that like a food network could be a 182 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: massive thing, or a music network could have a tremendous 183 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 3: influence on the world. 184 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, we used to joke there could be a time network, 185 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 4: there could be all kinds of useless networks. But I 186 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 4: remember a man from the music industry, Bob Krasnow, came 187 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 4: to me once. He says, I got the greatest idea 188 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 4: in the world for you. This was nineteen eighty nine. 189 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 4: I was then the CEO of MTV Networks, which ruled 190 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 4: over you know, Comedy Central and pH one and MTV 191 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 4: and Nick and I got the greatest idea in the 192 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 4: world for you. Says, food is going to be the 193 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 4: new rock and roll. Chefs are going to be the 194 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 4: new rock stars. I thought he was crazy. I was 195 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 4: too trapped in my own thing and didn't have the 196 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 4: vision to think that this could possibly be true. But 197 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 4: sure enough, everything he said came out to be true. 198 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 4: And I missed the boat on that one. 199 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 3: Well, you mentioned that before where MTV you had been 200 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: traveling abroad. You've been in Afghanistan. Tell me about you 201 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 3: as a child. Were you adventurous? What were your thoughts 202 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: about the world beyond Connecticut where you were growing up. 203 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 4: You know, we never went anywhere. My father fought in 204 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 4: World War Two and when he came back, he was 205 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 4: in the Pacific Theater. He didn't want to go anywhere, 206 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 4: and we only took one trip and that was like 207 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 4: sixty miles from our house to a mystic Connecticut where 208 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 4: they had some smelly old whaling ships. That was a 209 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 4: day trip. That was our only trip. So I was 210 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 4: sort of trapped there listening to radio from New York 211 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 4: City and gradually buying some record albums. And I was 212 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 4: a young boy. I was a stamp collector, and I 213 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 4: was always fascinated by exotic stamps, from you know, Africa 214 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 4: and Southeast Asia. I'd have stamps from Zanzibar and all 215 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 4: these faraway places. And you know, that, mixed in with 216 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 4: some shows of television about the French Foreign Legion in 217 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 4: Algeria and so forth, really captured my interest. But I 218 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 4: had only been in two states, New York and Connecticut 219 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 4: when I left to go to college on a bus. 220 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: And how is it that you end up working in 221 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: bars and various vacation towns during and after college. 222 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 4: Well, I went to graduate school primarily to get out 223 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 4: of the draft. I went to business school, which turned 224 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 4: out to be a blessing in disguise. And when that 225 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 4: was done, I realized I'd been eighteen years in school. 226 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 4: I could use a break. And I had been sort 227 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 4: of entranced by the literature of the Beats, which was 228 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 4: all about you know, experience is a key thing in life, 229 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,359 Speaker 4: not so much money, travel around. It's the world's greatest classroom, 230 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 4: build up a body of experiences. So that was one thing. 231 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 4: And then at the time, this was the late sixties 232 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 4: early seventies, freedom was in the air. Every other song 233 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 4: had something about hitting the road or leaving the road. 234 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 4: Joni Mitchell had a big album out called Blue, which 235 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 4: I loved and played incessantly. It was all about her 236 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 4: internet adventures, and my appetite was sort of wet and 237 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,479 Speaker 4: ready to go. But I spent a year after school 238 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 4: tending bar in various resort towns Aspen, Saint Thomas, and 239 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 4: the Virgin Islands Martha's Vineyard that was known as sort 240 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 4: of life on the circuit. This was before mass tourism, 241 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 4: so I really was lucky in the sense that I 242 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 4: had a window to be in the Caribbean before the 243 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 4: big cruise ships and the resorts that you never leave. 244 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 4: Martha's in her Nassen were nowhere near the lux vacation 245 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 4: towns for billionaires. They were mostly filled with hippies and outlaws. 246 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 3: Yes, hippies and outlaws, But you also ran into some 247 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 3: incredible company when you were in some of these places, 248 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 3: right like James Taylor shows off and some incredible musicians Sale. 249 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 4: Or Well, he was the big on Martha's Vinyard. He 250 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 4: had just sort of come out with his Sweet Baby 251 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 4: James album, and you know, it was sort of the 252 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 4: beginning of the year of the singer songwriters. And his 253 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 4: brother Alex, who I grew to New he had a 254 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 4: record store in town and they had speakers outside and 255 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 4: they would play incessantly James's two records all the time. 256 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 4: But I met James, I met Tom Rush, who was 257 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 4: a folk singer, and some other people, and that would 258 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 4: be something that that would be bumping into people for 259 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 4: the rest of my life. Out of the music business. 260 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 4: Twenty six years at this company, the company that started MTV, 261 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 4: and we're evolved into something so much bigger. 262 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: We've got to take a quick pause. 263 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: But back with Tom Freston right after this break. 264 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 3: You know, on one hand you mentioned this like imposter syndrome, 265 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 3: and on the other hand you've talked about how your 266 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 3: dad is like really charismatic in this book and can 267 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: talk to anyone. Did you have a problem approaching celebrities 268 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 3: and things like that or did you grow into a 269 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 3: comfort with that. How did that emerge? 270 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 4: You know, I was never a starstruck. I find it 271 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 4: kind of natural to talk to him, because, you know, 272 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 4: if you were able to get beyond the managers and 273 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 4: the record companies and talk directly to artists, you'd find 274 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 4: out they didn't have this huge aura around them. They 275 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 4: were approachable and they liked to talk you'd talk to 276 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 4: David Bowie, He'd want to know what books you were reading. 277 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 4: They'd be interested in you as much as you be 278 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 4: interested in them, so you could really speak to them 279 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 4: as if they were normal people, even though they might 280 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 4: have been traveling in many cases with a big entourage 281 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 4: around them. But I would say, of the everybody I met, 282 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 4: and over the years, I think I met every pop star, 283 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 4: movie star, president, magazine editor and so forth, it was 284 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 4: really the Beatles and David Bowie who were hitting shoulders 285 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 4: above all else and sort of the musical pantheon. But 286 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 4: even them, even those two, I got to know a 287 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 4: bit over. 288 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: Time, which just feels astounding the fact that you end 289 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 3: up later in Asana with David Bowie and Paul McCartney 290 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 3: and I want to talk about that, but before we 291 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 3: get to that, I am so fascinated with My twin 292 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 3: interests are like media and travel. Right Like, I was 293 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: an anthropology major, and one of the things I love 294 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 3: is just your ability to pick up and go to 295 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: Morocco and start traveling from there, and what drove you 296 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 3: to just leave everything and do that. 297 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 4: Well, after I spent a year on the road on 298 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 4: the circuit. If you will you know, tending bar and 299 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 4: resort towns. I got a job in a big New 300 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 4: York ad agency and I got on the fast track. 301 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 4: My first account was Gi Joe. This is an anti 302 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 4: war period, so we had to give him sort of 303 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 4: an honorary discharge and make him an action man. And 304 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 4: then I had a variety of other accounts that were 305 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 4: Procter and Gamble accounts. That was a big piece of 306 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 4: business for the agency. And I was going to be 307 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 4: assigned to charman toilet Paper, who had a big campaign 308 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 4: at a time called Don't Squeeze, a charman with this 309 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 4: character named mister Whipple, who research would show by nineteen 310 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 4: seventy three he was like the third most known and 311 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: admired man in America, which seemed incredulous. But I couldn't 312 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 4: really face the idea of selling toilet paper. And an 313 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 4: old girlfriend who was in Paris called me up and said, 314 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 4: you know you can't do that, Tom. Why don't you 315 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 4: quit your job and come with me. I'm going to 316 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 4: go across the Sahara Desert, which sounded really appealing to me, 317 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 4: as like impetus I needed. I had five thousand dollars saved, 318 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 4: so I was on a plane like a week later. 319 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 4: That sort of set in place. One of the major 320 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 4: decisions of my life kind of really freed me and 321 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 4: I was able to go out into the greater world 322 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 4: and learn a lot, build up my confidence, and learn 323 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 4: things that would ultimately help me a lot in my 324 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 4: business life. 325 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 3: You know, It's funny. Before I went into magazines and 326 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: my friends and I started a magazine, I had worked 327 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: in advertising in India for a summer and I spent 328 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 3: the whole summer making a washing machine ads and like, 329 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 3: it was so creative and so fun and the people 330 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 3: around me were just like brilliant creatives. And on the 331 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 3: other hand, to spend your whole life making people feel 332 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 3: like one washing machine was better than other washing machine 333 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: when they were the same washing machine was just like 334 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 3: hard to imagine. But it feels like you found a 335 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 3: way to align your business and passions. Starting with being 336 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 3: in Afghanistan. 337 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, in my travels, I ended up in Afghanistan and India. 338 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 4: India was sort of the holy Grail in those days 339 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 4: in terms of traveling. And I had met this girl 340 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 4: in Greece who had lived in Nepole and she used 341 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 4: to make clothes in India and Afghanistan and put them 342 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 4: in trunks and take them overland and sell them like 343 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 4: in beach hotspots in Greece and Italy in the summertime. 344 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 4: She had her own little vertically integrated enterprise. So I 345 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 4: fell in love with Afghanistan from the first day I 346 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 4: got there. It seemed like people think Afghanistan's a place 347 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 4: at constant war, but this was a tail end of 348 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 4: fifty years of what they called the Golden Age. There 349 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 4: was no war. Afghanistan was steadily moving into trying to 350 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 4: embrace a form of marginity, and the people were welcoming. 351 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 4: And the few tourists would see a poster there that 352 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 4: said visit Afghanistan and see the world's friendliest people. If 353 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 4: you went, then that's what you would think. But there 354 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 4: were no cars. You were totally there was no advertising. 355 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 4: You were totally removed from modern life, which was sort 356 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 4: of intoxicating for me. And there was just a grand 357 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 4: you know, vistas and beautiful geography, and I developed a 358 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 4: fascination with the people. That really led to like a 359 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 4: five decade love affair for me. And I went on 360 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 4: to India, which was like the crushing India of the 361 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 4: seventies that was their most turbulent decade. Sixty percent of 362 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 4: the population was below the poverty line, and it was crowded, 363 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 4: and I was fascinated, though I was just skimming the service, 364 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 4: but I thought, maybe there's something for me here. How 365 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 4: could I start a business doing what that woman had done, 366 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 4: scale it up and get a house in New Delhi 367 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 4: and begin to live in a totally farign place and 368 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 4: making design clothes and sell them to better stores in 369 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 4: the US and elsewhere. And what was a dream became 370 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 4: a really solid, multimillion dollar business. It grew faster than 371 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 4: I ever had imagined. I had to hire staff, open showrooms, warehouses, 372 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 4: and it ultimately consumed me. But in the end, having 373 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 4: made a lot of money, I lost it. All bad 374 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 4: things happened. We had the Russians invade Afghanistan, and then 375 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 4: Jimmy Carter he put an embargo and huge tariffs on 376 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 4: any clothing from India, much as like we see today 377 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 4: with Trump, and my business went under. I came back 378 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 4: to New York after eight years of that, with my 379 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 4: tail between my legs, looking for a new career in 380 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 4: a new leson life in a new lane. 381 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 3: But what you accomplished was insane the way that you 382 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 3: got these clothes into boutiques and larger stores. But did 383 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 3: you imagine yourself living the rest of your life out 384 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 3: in Asia at that time or had you thought always 385 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 3: that you'd come back to the States. 386 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 4: No, I thought i'd stay. I mean, listen, I was young, 387 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 4: I have anything to lose, and I felt so alive there. 388 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 4: Life is so vivid, and it was so different from 389 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 4: the conformist Connecticut that I had grown up in. And 390 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 4: I had a circle of friends. I had developed a lot, 391 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 4: and there was a circle of foreigners around that were 392 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 4: kind of like minded. I developed a wide circle of 393 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 4: friends in Afghanistan and India who were local. I said, man, 394 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 4: this is the life for me. You know, I'm with 395 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 4: kindred spirits. I'm seeing new places. I wanted to learn 396 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 4: as much as I can about those countries, travel as 397 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 4: far within them as possible, and go on to Southeast Asia. 398 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 4: And yeah, I thought this was it. I had stumbled 399 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 4: into something that, you know, met all my needs. But 400 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 4: it was not to be. 401 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 3: So tell me about your interview with MTV. 402 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 4: Well, when I got back, I I knew I had 403 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 4: to start a new line of work, and I had 404 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 4: bought the only self help book I ever bought in 405 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 4: my life, What Color is Your Parachute, the premise of 406 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 4: which was, you have transferable skills. You can do different 407 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 4: things in your life. You can have different career paths, 408 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 4: and you can transfer those skills, and you should align 409 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 4: your skills again with something that you love. And they 410 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 4: had a whole little analysis to help you figure out 411 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 4: what that could possibly be. I had loved being in 412 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 4: Asia and being there, but then this analysis show them 413 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 4: my other love that I had some knowledge of was 414 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 4: rock and roll. How do I get in on that? 415 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 4: So I began looking for jobs in the music industry, 416 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 4: which was, you know, at a difficult but interesting time 417 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 4: in its evolution. My brother lined me up with an 418 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 4: interview at a company that was going to start a 419 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 4: series of specialized networks. It was called want Aramic Satellite 420 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 4: Entertainment Company. They started the Movie Channel, they started Nickelodeon, 421 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 4: they had plans to start a thing called a music channel. 422 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 4: And my brother got me an interview there and they 423 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 4: told me we're looking for people with no experience in television. 424 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 4: So I kind of said, they didn't even have television 425 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 4: where I'd come from. And I got hired as the 426 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 4: head of marketing. I mean it was amazing, amazing confluence 427 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 4: of time because if it had been a month later 428 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 4: or a month before, these jobs wouldn't have been available. So, 429 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 4: you know, serendipity kind of put me in the right 430 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 4: place at the right time, and all those skills. As 431 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 4: I said earlier, that I had developed sort of my 432 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 4: heart scrabble close to the ground life in Asia, where 433 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 4: I worked really hard would helped me out immensely in 434 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 4: my career and where I ultimately was, you know, the 435 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 4: CEO of a creative enterprise full of eccentric people. 436 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 3: What was it about taking on the MTV job that 437 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 3: might have felt intimidating and then what felt easy because 438 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 3: you'd done it before. 439 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 4: Well, I had a lot to learn about the media business, 440 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 4: but I did a lot of research. I was always 441 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 4: a good researcher. I would dig up Wall Street Analyst reports. 442 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 4: People would send me about where this where the cable 443 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 4: television programming world was going. I knew the music, I 444 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 4: knew in tuitively. I had to figure out how we 445 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,719 Speaker 4: would promote this thing so people would want it. But 446 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 4: that almost became a fatacom plea because when I would 447 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 4: go out to the early markets. The few markets where 448 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 4: we existed, people had seen MTV on television. It had 449 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 4: kind of they woke up one day and it was 450 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 4: on their cable system. They didn't have to sign up 451 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 4: for it. It was in the basic package, and it 452 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 4: was so groundbreaking and innovative. It's hard to imagine today 453 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 4: that MTV was like that. This wasn't like a flying 454 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 4: car or something, but it was something radically different on 455 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 4: television that had a whole new visual style. It was music. 456 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 4: If you liked music, you know, you couldn't tear yourself 457 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 4: away from looking at music videos, which were really a 458 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 4: whole new program form. At that point in time. Most 459 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 4: people had had no exposure to music videos before the 460 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 4: advent of MTV. 461 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: I grew up an era where Nickelodeon had really found 462 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: us footing and loved that and then graduated to MTV, 463 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 3: and obviously it affected me a lot in terms of 464 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 3: just like feeling like it was built for me. Both 465 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 3: those things, both those brands really taught me a lot, 466 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 3: I felt like as just a consumer. But then watching 467 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 3: the way India was affected by MTV and the way 468 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 3: that it sort of over the course of a summer 469 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,719 Speaker 3: changed how people dressed, how they thought about the world. 470 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 3: It just showed me the power of the medium and 471 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 3: just an extraordinary way that I'd never thought about before. 472 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 4: Well, you know, with VH one and then later Comedy Central, 473 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 4: we kind of built a business that was all about kids, 474 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 4: teens and young adults, and we had a sizeable sort 475 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 4: of research cohort. We would try and get into the 476 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 4: minds of these people and find out what could we 477 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 4: do that these people would find interesting, What could we 478 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 4: do to be a step ahead of them, And really, 479 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 4: if we could make that connection with the audience and 480 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 4: build up loyalty in an era that was going to 481 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 4: have more and more choices and be more and more competitive, 482 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 4: if we could solidify that relationship and continue to refresh it, 483 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 4: you know, everything else we needed in our business would 484 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 4: kind of fall into place. So we really kept our 485 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 4: finger on the pulse and we had a lot of 486 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 4: creative people doing that. And when we went to India, 487 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 4: which was a thrill for me to be back back 488 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 4: on the street hawking something new in India, which was 489 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 4: just coming out of an era where they had like 490 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 4: one TV channel called Dordischan and now satellite and cable 491 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 4: were taking over India, making it for a long time 492 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 4: the most vibrant television market in the world. It was 493 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 4: a thrill to hire young creative Indians who could put 494 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 4: together their own version of what they thought an Indian 495 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 4: MTV could look like. And yes, that and other channels 496 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 4: really had a huge cultural impact on the country. Someone 497 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 4: did a research study once saying that soap operas produced 498 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 4: in what was then Bombay, in sort of middle class neighborhoods, 499 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 4: when they were bound by satellite into Indian villages, which 500 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 4: was where like seventy percent of the population lived, had 501 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 4: a huge impact on women in terms of their desire 502 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 4: to see their daughter educated, their desire to kind of shrink, 503 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 4: their desired family size, aspirational things about what to wear 504 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 4: and dress. And they said that like in one month 505 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 4: you could get what normally would have been six months 506 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 4: worth of social progress. So it was interesting and I 507 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 4: believe that I saw that with my own eyes. Television 508 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 4: is a great cultural influencer. 509 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick pause, but back with 510 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: Tom Freston right after this break. 511 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 3: One of the things that's so fun about this is 512 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 3: that the book is full of adventures and not just 513 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 3: the travel adventures, but also the ones at MTV. And 514 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 3: you talk about chasing down David Bowie to do a campaign. 515 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 3: Will you tell that story here? 516 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 4: Sure? Well, I wanted this book to be I didn't 517 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 4: want it to be a business book because there's so 518 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 4: many of those. I thought, well, if I could. The 519 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 4: pandemic is when I wrote it, so I had time 520 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 4: on my hands that if I can make this more 521 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 4: of an adventure story, it'd be interesting to me. And 522 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 4: let's pick out ten to fifteen of my favorite adventures, 523 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 4: if you will. One involved how we kind of saved 524 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 4: the network from the dustbin. We had got into like 525 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 4: two million homes. But we found out that the cable operators, 526 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 4: this is in the early eighties, who had geographic monopolies everywhere, 527 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 4: they didn't want to add MTV out to their cable 528 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 4: systems because they didn't believe one people would want to 529 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 4: watch music on television. Two they want to pay us 530 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 4: ten cents a month because that would cut into their 531 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 4: profit margins. And three they didn't like the kind of 532 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 4: music we were playing anyway. They were more like Elvis 533 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 4: Presley fans. So we deduced that in places where we 534 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 4: were the fans were very avid and Rabbit. If we 535 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 4: could know harness them to demand that they cable companies 536 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 4: they had would add MTV to their systems, it would 537 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 4: conceive it would be the only thing that could save 538 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 4: us from going out of business because we would use 539 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 4: the customers to basically demand it, and then we would 540 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 4: roll out across the country, which we did. So we 541 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 4: ripped off an old campaign called I Want My MAPO, 542 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 4: which Vermont kind of quasi oatmeal manufacturer had used to 543 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 4: reach the young baby boomers to torment their parents so 544 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 4: they would buy this cereal instead of corn flakes or 545 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 4: something which worked. So we figured if we did that, 546 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 4: it would help if we were legitimized by having the 547 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 4: characters and the ads be rock stars. So we got 548 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 4: Nick Jagger, we got Pete Townsend of The Who, David Bowie, 549 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 4: Hall and Oates the Billy Idle. I mad go down 550 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 4: a list because I was involved in making those advertisements 551 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 4: for a couple of years. In three years, we basically 552 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 4: wrapped up the whole country market by market. But in 553 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 4: the case of David Bowie, which I was assigned to do, 554 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 4: is like, well you get him to do this, and 555 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 4: we had found out that it was easier to reach 556 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 4: the artist. I called his manager and she said, well, 557 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 4: he's skiing in Stott, Switzerland. He'll do it if you 558 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 4: want to go over there. It won't take long. So 559 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 4: he said, yeah, I got a crew. We jumped on 560 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,719 Speaker 4: a plane. We flew to Geneva, we got on a 561 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 4: train to Stot. We went out to this little hillside 562 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 4: outside the main ski area and met David and he 563 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 4: was looking trim and in a good mood and blonde hair, 564 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 4: and he was in his Let's Dance era and he 565 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 4: wanted to ski down. He knew what he wanted to do. 566 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 4: Ski down and then swish at the bottom and say 567 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 4: I want my MTV. We did a few takes. We 568 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 4: said we'll take that back and post production will put 569 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 4: the logo in there. And he wanted the logo to 570 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 4: be on skis. So when it was finished he said, 571 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 4: anybody want to go skiing or hang out? And you know, 572 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 4: I had nothing else to do. And then at the 573 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 4: end of the day he said, hey, Tom, you want 574 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 4: to go for a sauna later at the Palace Hotel, 575 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 4: which was a Grondam hotel in Stadd. I said sure, 576 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 4: So I went back to our hotel tell where the 577 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 4: crew was staying, which was a couple of levels above 578 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 4: a youth hostel. I said, I'll see you losers later, 579 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 4: and I went to the spa and saw David and 580 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 4: we got outfitted in our towels and went into the sauna. 581 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 4: There was only one other person in there, and he 582 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 4: was high up on a platform, and it was Paul McCartney. 583 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 4: So here I am, this kid from Connecticut and now 584 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 4: in a sauna with my two biggest heroes, you know, 585 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 4: and wrapped in a towel. And they made it very 586 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 4: comfortable for me. You know, we throw water on the fire. 587 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 4: They wanted to know all about MTV, which was easy 588 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 4: for me to talk about. You know, it was not 589 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 4: intimidating at all. And I've been dining out on this 590 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 4: story for years. 591 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 3: That's just an incredible story. And you say that one 592 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 3: of the things that's important to do is make a 593 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: lot of mistakes. Can you tell me about some of 594 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 3: the mistakes at MTV as you were trying to reinvent 595 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 3: yourself and what you learn from them. 596 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 4: Well, you know, we took a lot of risks, so 597 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 4: we put a lot of shows on the air and 598 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 4: they just wouldn't work. So they'd disappear, they would die 599 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 4: a rapid death, and we back with something else that 600 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 4: it would work better. It was the same with Nickelodeon 601 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 4: and VH one and whatnot, and we certainly had our 602 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 4: share of turkeys. I remember we had an animated show 603 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 4: we really liked. It was by these guys in Scandinavia 604 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 4: made it called The Grunt Brothers of All Things. We 605 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 4: put that on the air. We thought that was going 606 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 4: to be really cool and great. It was not. So 607 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 4: Somewhere someone sitting around with six episodes of that in 608 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 4: a drawer. Maybe they'll come back one day. I don't know. 609 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 4: But why I encourage people to take risks, and that 610 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 4: involved trying stuff because you never know what's going to work. 611 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 4: I mean in the movie business they always used to say, 612 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 4: you know, the most movies fail. On television, most shows 613 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 4: don't succeed. We had a higher batting average in a 614 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 4: lot of places, but still most of the stuff we 615 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 4: tried didn't work, and it would just kind of go 616 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 4: away and onto the next thing. 617 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 3: How did you know when to put more money into 618 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 3: something and when to keep the reins really tight and 619 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 3: allow creativity to change a format or build something new. 620 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 4: Well, we always had a budget we had to live under, 621 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 4: and we dellocate money to certain things in development, and 622 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 4: if we saw something was working, we'd put more money 623 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 4: into it. Sometimes you had to put up a lot 624 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 4: of money up front, and that was sometimes, you know, 625 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 4: kind of less in our ability to do things. For example, 626 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 4: at one point we had decided, at one point, if 627 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 4: we took ten percent of the one hundred and sixty 628 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 4: eight hours a week we were on and did things 629 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 4: other than straight music videos, we can make MPTV a 630 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 4: bigger place by being about some of the things that 631 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 4: pop culture was about, something that the music was about, 632 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 4: be that fashion or sports, or live events or movies. 633 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 4: And at one point we someone came in and said, 634 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 4: you know, Fox Network has started. They're targeting younger audiences. 635 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 4: They have these great popular soap operas. Why don't we 636 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 4: try doing a soap opera but make it a little edgier, 637 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 4: a little more gritty. And it turns out for us 638 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 4: to do it, we would have had to hire writers. 639 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 4: They came to meet this fellow, Doug Herzog came to 640 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 4: me with the presentation, and we could do a soap opera, 641 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 4: produce something every day and we'd have to have writers 642 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 4: and regular actors. And I said, you know, this is 643 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 4: a great idea. We probably could do it, but we 644 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 4: don't have the money. So they came back. He went 645 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 4: to these producers Una Murray with their names, and they 646 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 4: came back and said, well, okay, we were good at 647 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 4: post production, so why don't we just rent Aloft and 648 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 4: Soho and put some hidden cameras in there and get 649 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 4: like six to eight people, you know, cast them real 650 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 4: regular people, not stars, and have them live together and 651 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 4: let's see what happens. Because we knew that young people 652 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 4: love to see cues from people their age of how 653 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 4: they were living and what they were thinking. You know, 654 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 4: every time we turned the cameras on the audience, they 655 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 4: really enjoyed that. So that was the birth of the 656 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 4: Real World. And that started and kicked off really a 657 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 4: whole movement towards reality television, which doesn't always bring out 658 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 4: the best in American character, but nonetheless was a huge hit. 659 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 4: And it was always driven by the fact that people 660 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 4: wanted to see what kids their own age were doing. 661 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 4: The problem was, as he went on, I mean the 662 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 4: early cast, they had no idea what it was going 663 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 4: to become. They went into the show no pretensions or 664 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 4: errors or intentions. But then later on, as they realized 665 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 4: all these people became famous. When you began to cast people, 666 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 4: they would pretend to have more outrageous personalities. So these 667 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 4: shows became more exaggerated in terms of, you know, the 668 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 4: norm of human behavior, but the audience ate that up 669 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 4: as well, and then they were as different category as 670 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 4: a reality show, celebrity reality shows. We kind of kicked 671 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 4: that off with the Osbournes following Ozzy around with Sharon, 672 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 4: his wife and the kids, and then you know, they 673 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 4: came along and Dey's contests like Mark Burnett did with 674 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 4: The Survivor, and these things are still on the air. 675 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 2: I'm curious. 676 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 3: You've done so many things that have influenced so many 677 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 3: people and created something brands from like Nickelodeon, MTV, Comedy 678 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 3: Central and then Vice and television stations in Afghanistan, and 679 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 3: you've been involved in all sorts of incredible charities as well. 680 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 3: What do you think is closest to your heart in 681 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 3: terms of all the stuff, like what is the show 682 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 3: or the production or the thing you made that feels 683 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 3: most special to you. 684 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 4: Well, there were a lot of successes in my media career, 685 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 4: and I was most proud of the management team I assembled, 686 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 4: people like Judy McGrath, Thug HERZG, Bill flannag and Van Toffler, 687 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 4: Jerry Labor and Herb Scannal. I mean, we had like 688 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 4: the best management team in the business, unbelievably talented in 689 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 4: terms of creativity. They also had business acumen and we 690 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 4: were able to for year after year after year after 691 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 4: year create and put out groundbreaking, genre breaking shows. And 692 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 4: just being around those people was a thrill. I mean, 693 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 4: they really deserved the bulk of the credit of the 694 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 4: stuff be invented. My job was sort of protect them 695 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 4: from corporate overseers outside world old and to give them 696 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 4: the ability to be able to execute on what they thought, 697 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 4: and of course I'd be part of the process. So 698 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 4: that was highly enjoyable to me. You know, starting out 699 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 4: in the animation business is a great example that was 700 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 4: a thrill. These days, you know, I'm really involved with 701 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 4: work I've done in the sort of do gooder category. 702 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 4: My long relationship in Afghanistan ended up with me going 703 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 4: back there after I was fired and helping launch the 704 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 4: first television stations, which were really a civilizing force and 705 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 4: what they now called the American occupation of twenty years, 706 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 4: which we really badly bungled, But that's a whole o 707 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 4: their story. But what wasn't bungled was the civilizing effect 708 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 4: of the medium on the Afghan population and making them 709 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 4: more tolerant and more connected to the outside world, more nuanced, 710 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 4: more aspirational, and things they wanted to do in their 711 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 4: personal life. And then in Africa, I work with this 712 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 4: thing called a One campaign that's about justice and where 713 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 4: you live shouldn't decide whether you live or die. And 714 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 4: we have fought on the global health front for preventable diseases, 715 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 4: influencing politicians to swing billions of dollars into programs that 716 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 4: have saved millions of lives. And I love going to 717 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 4: Africa and seeing the impact of that. And I love 718 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 4: going to Africa just to go to Africa and hear 719 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 4: the music and you know, partaking the culture there. And 720 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 4: by twenty fifty, one out of four people on the 721 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,959 Speaker 4: face of the Earth is going to be African. It's 722 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 4: it's really a place with a totally exploding population and dynamism, 723 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 4: and it's going to be the continent to watch. 724 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 3: Oh thank you so much for this time. I really 725 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 3: appreciate it. Such fun talking to you. 726 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 4: Great to talk to you, magneshow was really nice. Thank you. 727 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 1: Well. That does it for today. Big thank you to 728 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: Tom Preston for speaking with us. His book Unplugged Eventures 729 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: from MTV to Timbuktoo is out now and you can 730 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: get it wherever you get your books. We'll put a 731 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: link to in the show as well, just to make 732 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: that process faster for you. It really is a terrific read. Also, 733 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 1: if you like the show, be sure to follow us 734 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: on Instagram or Blue Sky. 735 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 2: We're at Part Time Genius. 736 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: We will be back next week with another brand new episode, 737 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: but in the meantime, from Will Dylan, Mary, Gabe, and myself, 738 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is 739 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is hosted by 740 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: my good pal Will Pearson, who I've known for almost 741 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: three decades now. That is insane to me. I'm the 742 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: utter COO host Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer is Mary 743 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: Phillips Sandy. She's actually a super producer. I'm gonna fix 744 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: that in post. Our writer is Gabe Lucier who I've 745 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,720 Speaker 1: also known for like a decade at this point, maybe more. 746 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: Dylan Fagan is in the booth. He is always dressed up, 747 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: always cheering us on, and always ready to hit record 748 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: and then mix the show after he does a great job. 749 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: I also want to shout out the executive producers from 750 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,240 Speaker 1: iHeart my good pals Katrina and Norvel and Ali Perry. 751 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: We have social media support from Calypso Rallis. If you 752 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: like our videos, that is all Calypso's handiwork for more 753 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 754 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: or tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 755 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: That's it from us here at Part Time Genius. 756 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening.