1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: with essential market moven news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Listen. Our next guest 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: is firmly in the soft landing camp as well. He 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: expects a growth of around one and a half percent 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: for the rest of the year and inflation to continue 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: to decline. But market's kind of up and down today 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: on concern that the elevated inflation that we've seen in 12 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: recent data points, the core CPI reading still at four 13 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: point seven percent, is going to stay with us for 14 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: some time to come. And part of that problem is 15 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: the super core gauge of prices that Powell watches so closely, right, 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: the services excluding housing has actually risen in the last reading. 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: And another part is that some elements of the depressed 18 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: CPI readings like airline tickets and medical costs aren't expected 19 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 1: to continue to drop. And then got the housing picture 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: to add to all of that, so let's welcome in 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: Bob Heater. He's a head of Investment Policy and Strategy 22 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: group over at Silvercrest Asset Management. Bob, welcome the program. 23 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us in the Interactive Broker Studio. Why 24 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: are you optimistic that inflation will continue to decline? 25 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the reasons is that we've 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: seen most of the inflationary fuel dissipate, so monetary growth 27 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: has all but flat lined here. You've seen all of 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: the supply chain problems dissipate. The index that's widely maintained 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: and followed there really only hit normal just a few 30 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: months ago. You've seen a lot of the demand swings 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: in the economy start to normalize. We're still seeing some 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: of that, but supply and demand a bit more stable 33 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 2: and allowing companies to really produce at a level that 34 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: they need to to keep prices in check. And so 35 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: I'm relatively optimistic on the pace of inflation continuing to 36 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 2: decline from an economic perspective, but I think from a 37 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: market perspective, we've maybe gotten a little bit of ahead 38 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: of ourselves and there's a bit more work to do. 39 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: It's interesting because these CPI figures don't necessarily look ahead 40 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: to things like rising oil prices and the impacts. I mean, 41 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: when we think of the FED, they're looking at this 42 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 3: core number that strips out all this other stuff, that 43 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: is the stuff that consumers potentially feel most strongly. Is 44 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: this going to change the FEDS thinking? Is this going 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: to change their reaction to some of these data that 46 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: we get. 47 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: So the way that I look at that on a 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: go forward basis of trying to estimate the pace of 49 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: the decline in CPI, and I think that's the real 50 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: open question mark for markets here. 51 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: I think you're right. 52 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: There are a number of things that are likely to 53 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: put some upward pressure on CPI, and the energy complex 54 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: certainly being one of those. The one that's the biggest one, 55 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: of course, on the downside is housing. And so when 56 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: we look through some of those estimates of how much 57 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: of the contribution from CPI from housing well over two percent, 58 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: it looks like maybe middle of next year. 59 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: That starts to go flat. 60 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: So if I add back in more energy inflation than 61 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 2: we have currently and I take out the housing, I 62 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: get to a point where I sort of estimate we 63 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: hit that two percent FED target sometime in the middle 64 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: of next year, so we're still a ways away from that, 65 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: and then beyond that, we still have to ask the 66 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: question what will the FED do if and when we 67 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: hit that two percent? So I think that's why the 68 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 2: market's struggling a little bit here. With inflation's improved a lot, 69 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: I think we factored most of that in and we're 70 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: sort of looking for some additional fuel. 71 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: What do you think do you think the Fed is 72 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: going to hold at this level? 73 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 4: Right? 74 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: And what in twenty twenty four start to cut. 75 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: I think it won't be at least until the middle 76 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: or late in twenty twenty four until they start to cut. 77 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: I think I base that somewhat on the comments that 78 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: we saw from New York Fed President Williams talking a 79 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: little bit about the restrictiveness of policy increases as inflation 80 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: comes down. So if we do see inflation coming down 81 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: a bit, I think they may cut just a bit 82 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: just enough over that too. 83 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 4: Right. 84 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: This is the passive hike that we got basically yesterday, 85 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: right when CPI came down, even though rates were the same, 86 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: essentially gives you a higher real. 87 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: Rate, yes, And I think even that process, though, will 88 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: take some time. It's not like they're going to take 89 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: you know, two hundred or three hundred bases points out 90 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: in a single meeting. It'll be thissured pace of very 91 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: slow cuts later in the year. So I think there's 92 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: still a long timeline for rates being a bit elevated 93 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: here and creating a bit of a drag on the economy. 94 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, the ponderous twenty five basis points. Then we'll see 95 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: and we'll pause, and we'll see in that kind of 96 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: message impact on corporate profits. I mean, are we at 97 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: the end of a potential earnings recession where we see 98 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: things improve from here? 99 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 2: I think we're getting close to that. So I based 100 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: that on two things. One is, I do think economic 101 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: growth is mostly stabilized. And while I think we'll be 102 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 2: running at around one and a half percent, it certainly 103 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: could be a little bit lower than that in the 104 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: next few quarters if the rate stress and bank stress 105 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: weighs more heavily than I'm expecting. But I think in 106 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 2: terms of looking out to next year, there's reason for 107 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: some optimism. I've started to see some signals in earnings 108 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 2: reports this past quarter that companies are making improvements in 109 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: productivity enhancement, and I think some of that has been 110 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 2: masked by the wild swings we've had in the economy 111 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: in the past few years. Now that we get back 112 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: to a much more stable backdrop, I think some of 113 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: those productivity gains will start to flow through. So I 114 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if next year is marked by a 115 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: period of slightly increasing margins and getting a little bit 116 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: of upside on the earnings. 117 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: What do you think about the labor fight? So they 118 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: two you know, industry specific and spread out. You've got 119 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: you know, labor fight over streaming, you've got a labor 120 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: fight and automotive production. But there's some big numbers that 121 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: we're looking at. 122 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: Right yes, and I think we saw some of that 123 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: in different industries during the pandemic, particularly in service industries. 124 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: My take on that is that I think an overall 125 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: cost basis for companies, they can manage it. So it's 126 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: good for the consumer, it's good for the people getting 127 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 2: increase pay. But I think you do that with perhaps 128 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: less headcount, and we've started to see some of that. 129 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: Companies holding the line on headcount, or companies that in 130 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 2: industries that have been disrupted in the pandemic at staffing 131 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: levels lower than they were in twenty nineteen. And higher 132 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: capacity in terms of the number of customers they're serving. 133 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: So wages might be going up on a basis of 134 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 2: hourly wages for employees, but lower headcount or flatheadcount on 135 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 2: higher revenue, okay for margins. 136 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: So at bottom line for stocks we're at we're just 137 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: under s and P forty five hundred, right, we come 138 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: in about two and a half or so the last 139 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: couple weeks. But you think we're gonna remain at this 140 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: level give or take into twenty twenty four, and then 141 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: you're constructive on the index from there, Yes, basically. 142 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: I mean it's always, of course tough to time these 143 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: things point to point, but I think we're really struggling 144 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: for some fuel here. There's not much reason to be 145 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: overly optimistic, not much reason to be overly pessimistic. Stocks 146 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: look relatively fairly priced to me, and I think it'll 147 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: be until later in the year until investors start focusing 148 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: on what does the path look like for twenty twenty four, 149 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: maybe start to put some realistic expectations on inflation and 150 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 2: FED policy, start to take a closer pencil to earnings 151 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,119 Speaker 2: in twenty four, that we start to get any fuel 152 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: to the upside. 153 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: Are there any sectors, any pockets of opportunity that you 154 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 3: were looking at? 155 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: So I like three sectors in particular. I think consumer, 156 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: discretionary and industrials are still benefiting from strong demand. I 157 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: think that will continue, and I think select pockets and 158 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: technology where they've shown the opportunity to ab productivity enhancing 159 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: and be be able to increase their own margins relatively efficiently. 160 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 2: I think there's some upsides to earnings there as well. 161 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 3: Can I ask what's the impact of saying generative AI 162 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: in an earnings call? 163 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: Yes, it's certainly showing up in every call. So I've 164 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: been trying to weed through a lot of that and 165 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: shut out the noise of just mentioning AI for hopeful 166 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: purposes and companies that are actually deploying things. I think 167 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: we're still very early in that it's a lot of 168 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: mentions and not a lot of activity, but we're starting 169 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: to see some of it pop through, and I think 170 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: we're starting to again see companies producing more revenue on 171 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: flat headcount. And that's beneficial, but is it. 172 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: A game changer? I mean, I saw a story the 173 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: other day that the Chinese have ordered five billion dollars 174 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: worth of chips from Nvidia trying to get in under 175 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: the wire while they can. That's a massive number. 176 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: It is a massive number, and I think some of 177 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: it will be hugely productive and some of it will 178 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: be hugely wasteful. And that's really the challenge in sorting 179 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: through company by company who's able to manage these things 180 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,679 Speaker 2: well and deploy the technology to productivity benefit. 181 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 3: And then you have the kind of Inflation Reduction Act 182 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: and all of these long term investments in manufacturing. I mean, 183 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: do we see the impact of those in the near 184 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: term or is this something you're looking out for twenty 185 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 3: twenty five, twenty six. 186 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: I think we're seeing some of it presently. In terms 187 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: of economic growth. We're certainly seeing construction spend and manufacturing 188 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: has ticked up quite a bit. We haven't seen it 189 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: on the job front. I think hiring has been very 190 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: difficult there. So I do think the hiring cycle of 191 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: it will take some time, and maybe that's potentially over 192 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: time and offset to some of the other jobs that 193 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: get lost in other areas. 194 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: All right, Bob, thanks so much for joining us, Bob Teeter. 195 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: They are from Silvercrest Asset Management. Really appreciate your time 196 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: in the studio with us. 197 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 5: You're listening to the Team Can's live program Bloomberg Markets 198 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 5: weekdays at ten am Eastern. 199 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: On Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio. 200 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 5: App and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand 201 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 5: wherever you get your podcasts. 202 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: So there's a company in the Philippines called Ancass I 203 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: believe I have the pronunciation right. They have four million downloads, 204 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: they have thirty thousand biker partners, and they are essentially 205 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: an uber that runs on two wheels rather than four. 206 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: Let's bring in the CEO right now. Vancast George Royeka 207 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: joins us to talk more about the growth that they've 208 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: seen in the market. George, thanks so much for your time. 209 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm an avid motorcyclist, so I love the idea, but 210 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: how exactly does this work? I mean I imagine people 211 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: sometimes fall off. 212 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 6: Well, hi guys, thanks for having me here. Well, you know, 213 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 6: we're very close here in our side of the world, 214 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 6: and I much love to give I'm in transportation, right, 215 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 6: so you do got to hug your driver unfortunately. 216 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: Or fortunately depending on you know, everybody needs a hug 217 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: once in a while. What kind of growth have you shown, 218 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: because I know you have a goal of getting to 219 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: creating a million jobs, and right now you've got thirty thousand. 220 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 6: So actually we're at fifty thousand now. 221 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 5: Wow. 222 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 6: I think it's a few months ago we grew quite 223 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 6: significantly and we're about eight million downloads as of date. 224 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:52,599 Speaker 1: Wow. 225 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, what what spurred that growth because I know 226 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 3: very recently as of March it was it was quite 227 00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 3: a bit less, right March. 228 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, I think in the you know, in our 229 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 6: part of tow congestion is you know it's a big 230 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 6: problem and a lot of the streets here, even the 231 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 6: main thoroughfares, it's just riddled with you know, cars and 232 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 6: buses and there's not enough infrastructure. So you know, a 233 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 6: ten kilometer drive can take about two hours one way. 234 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 6: So that's that's that's very bad. So you know, there's 235 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 6: a really neat, big need for small, agile vehicles. You know, 236 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 6: Indonesia has led the way for for these types of transportation, 237 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 6: and this is something that we're seeing as a trend 238 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 6: all over to Southeast Asia. 239 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: So what does your growth look like like going forward? 240 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: If you double your download since March and you've almost 241 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: doubled your your driver pool, what do you expect in 242 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: the next year or two. 243 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, well yet another we're experiencing double digit growths, right, 244 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 6: so this is something that we're expecting over the next 245 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 6: you know, twelve months even just the balance here. Right now, 246 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 6: we're only the metropolitans and we're now expanding to the cities. 247 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 6: There's about maybe another twenty odd cities that will be 248 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 6: launching in the next sixty days. So it's been a 249 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 6: it's been you know, quite busy for us this past 250 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 6: few months. 251 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, sounds like it. I mean, are the chief customers 252 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 3: of your service? Are they people going to work? Are 253 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: they leisure travelers? How would you describe who is using 254 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 3: and cast at any given time. 255 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 6: I think we're alternative, you know, mode of transport really 256 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 6: really one for emergency use cases for people want to 257 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 6: get to their destination much faster, you know, for work especially, 258 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 6: and also to get home to their families. Right, that's primary. 259 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 6: So really the workforces are the main constituency for for 260 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 6: my writers. Second would be really just anybody that you 261 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 6: know would like to get there faster for for whatever reason. 262 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 7: Right. 263 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 6: So our demographic is quite large, so you'll see in 264 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 6: the morning, in the evening rush hour, it's really more 265 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 6: of the workforce and a little bit of the you know, 266 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 6: more guys that need an affordable motor transportation because taxis, 267 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 6: as you can imagine, can get very expensive, especially when 268 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 6: you're when you're on the road for for a long time. 269 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 6: You know, an hour or two hour drive would really 270 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 6: be would cost you a lot more. So we have 271 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 6: those people that want a more efficient ride and also 272 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 6: a more cheaper ride. But in the you know, throughout 273 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 6: the day, as you go closer to you know, the weekend, 274 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 6: it gets pretty congested, even in the off peak hours, 275 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 6: so you just really get a wider demograph for even 276 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 6: the more affluent base that just wants to get to 277 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 6: places faster. So it's I think it's a little bit 278 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 6: of both. And as we expand to the provincial cities, 279 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 6: there's actually less and less cars and more motorcycles. If 280 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 6: you go outside of Metro Manil, the racial between cars 281 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 6: to motorcycle is eighteen is to one, So we become 282 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 6: the dominant form of transportation. As you can imagine, buying 283 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 6: a motorcycle is a lot cheaper than getting a car. 284 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 6: So this is something that a lot of people use, 285 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 6: as you know, not just their family car, not just 286 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 6: their work car, but also as a means for livelihood, 287 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 6: which is what we're trying to really espouse is give 288 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 6: people more jobs. 289 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: George, you, I mean, it seems like from looking at 290 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: your CV, you've been very active and still are in 291 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: media and content creation, entertainment, that sort of thing. Now 292 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: transportation is a wholly different industry. How did that transition happen? 293 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: And what does what does your exit look like? Do 294 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: you have an IPO planned? 295 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 6: I think everybody wants to have that type of exit. 296 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 6: Right for now, we're just trying to open to more 297 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 6: cities and serving more customers. I think my media background 298 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 6: really helps and telling the story, and it is the 299 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 6: story of freedom getting unshackled from traffic. You know, in 300 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 6: the Philippines, especially in the Metro Manila, a lot of 301 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 6: your major and minor decisions revolves around where you live 302 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 6: and how far it is to get to where you're 303 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 6: supposed to go, whether it's going on a date or 304 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 6: you know, putting your kids through school. The daily commute matters. 305 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 6: So this is something that I think a lot of 306 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 6: people use just because it allows them to do a lot, 307 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 6: you know, more things in the day and being able 308 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 6: to really create that relate that compelling story to people 309 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 6: is something that really has helped our company grow. 310 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: All right, great talking to you, George, and we wish 311 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: you the best luck. Will continue to watch to see 312 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: if this astronomical growth goes forward. George Royaka there. He's 313 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: the CEO of Ancas and the Philippines. It's like the 314 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: uber I Guess of motorcycles. 315 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 5: You're listening to the tape Can't Live program Bloomberg Markets 316 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 5: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio. Tune it up, 317 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 5: Bloomberg dot Com. 318 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 4: The Bloomberg Business App. 319 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 5: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 320 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 5: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 321 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 3: So our question of m Live Question of the week 322 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: is has the commercial real estate crisis escalated? 323 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: We asked this. 324 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 3: At a time when we work sharers are slumping. It's 325 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: not become kind of a penny stock memish thing. And 326 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: the question is, has you know, has this crisis really 327 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: begun and gotten crazy? And the person I want to 328 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 3: ask about this is Mark Dixon. He's the CEO of IWG. 329 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: This is a brand that includes Regis spaces HQ signature. 330 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: Actually we were competitor. So the question here is what 331 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 3: is the outlook. I mean, have enough people returned to 332 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 3: office that a lot of these office spaces can move 333 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: forward into the future. So, Mark, thank you so much 334 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 3: for joining us. I mean, you say eight million plus 335 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 3: people use IWG workspaces. 336 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 4: What are you. 337 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 3: Seeing in terms of the trends of people coming back? 338 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 3: Is this escalating and what's the way forward as we 339 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 3: get back into the farm. 340 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 8: Yeah, well, look, thanks very much for having me. We're 341 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 8: in a similar business that we work, but we're not 342 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 8: exactly the same. Our network is very diversified. 343 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 4: You know. 344 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 8: We a large part of our customers were actually already 345 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 8: working from home. 346 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 4: We have a. 347 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 8: Significant business supports people working from home. We also have 348 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 8: buildings very much in the suburbs and in rural locations, 349 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,239 Speaker 8: not just in the big cities. So what we published 350 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 8: this week, actually the day before, we work's announcement record 351 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 8: results for us with our revenues up to record levels 352 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 8: and also profits hitting a record level. So you know, 353 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 8: for us, we're producing seeing a lot of cash and 354 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 8: we're growing very quickly. So the market has changed. It's 355 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 8: not that the real estate market is not there anymore. 356 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 8: It's changed, and it's changed we think fundamentally and forever. 357 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 8: And this is really technology changing how people can work 358 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 8: and most importantly where they can work. So we're the 359 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 8: leaders globally in hybrid work. We operate in one hundred 360 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 8: and twenty countries. We have four thousand locations and companies 361 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 8: and individuals are working with us in a completely different way, 362 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 8: and that business is growing. 363 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: I will say, I will I will say that we 364 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News used Regis office space. I remember visiting the 365 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: Regis and Munich when I was a CUB reporter twenty 366 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: years ago, and at my Berlin office right on the 367 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: Brandenburg Gate, there is a Regis in our building. I 368 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: imagine we started out leasing that space as well. So 369 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: you've been around for a while, because I've been around 370 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: for a while. Does does that give you some advantage 371 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: over a bombastic upstart like a we work? I mean, 372 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: you're very different. 373 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 8: We're very different business do we work? So Look, there's 374 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 8: nothing wrong with the industry that we works in. It's 375 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 8: just you know, they had a bad start. I mean 376 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 8: they started at the top of the market. They grew 377 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 8: very quickly, had a lot of capital, were the opposite 378 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 8: the entire business has been built with three hundred million 379 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 8: of core capital, and you know we have created everything 380 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 8: from that. But you know, overall, you know, this isn't 381 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 8: this is new real estate. This is digital real estate. 382 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 8: This is providing space to people on a platform. We 383 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 8: were doing it for Bloomberg fifteen years ago, right at 384 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 8: the beginning of Bloomberg basically, and many many other companies 385 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 8: use us around the world and it is a growing 386 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 8: part of the real estate industry. 387 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 3: So talk to me about the small towns, the I 388 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 3: guess non traditional places that you're setting up some of 389 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 3: these offices. I know this is a key strategy for you. 390 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 3: What's the thinking there in terms of well from a 391 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 3: company perspective too, why do they rent office space in 392 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 3: places outside of major metro centers. 393 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 8: Look, we don't rent office space just to sort of 394 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 8: I know, we're not in the real estate business as such. 395 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 8: You know, we provide workspace as a platform. So when 396 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 8: we sign people up or companies up, they're using us 397 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 8: across the whole platform. So they're not it's not companies 398 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 8: taking space generally in one particular location. 399 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 3: Sure, but why are they looking at these small a 400 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 3: small town areas. 401 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 8: It's close to where they live. Look, the elephant in 402 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 8: the room is commuting. You know, it's the time it 403 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 8: takes to commute, It's the cost of commuting. It's not 404 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 8: anything else but that folks generally want to work in 405 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 8: an office. They don't want to work from home. They 406 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 8: work from home some of the time, but they really 407 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 8: want to get to an office meet with other people. 408 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 8: They just don't want that office to be too far away. 409 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 8: So what we're seeing is companies allowing people and encouraging 410 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 8: people in fact, to get an office with us close 411 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 8: to where they live. So these openings we're doing in 412 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 8: provincial and rural United States, the suburbs in the US, 413 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 8: but all over the world are filling up, and they're 414 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 8: filling up with people from large corporates, mid sized companies 415 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 8: who just want to have an office close to home. 416 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 8: It's really as simple as that. They're very, very popular. 417 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: So in terms of you say, you started with three 418 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: hundred million in core capital, and that's obviously a very 419 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: different story to the billions we work burned. But do 420 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: you have any debt that you need to roll over 421 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: or higher interest rates affecting you at this time? 422 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 8: Well, our debt will at the end of this year 423 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 8: be about just over one time zibit, so we're low 424 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 8: level bridge. We are reducing that debt. You know, we're 425 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 8: producing a lot of cash. First half we produced about 426 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 8: two hundred million dollars of cash. We'll produce more in 427 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 8: the second half. So up until we just did our 428 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 8: investor presentations this week, you know, this year is all 429 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 8: about reducing them and we continue. 430 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 4: To do that. 431 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 8: Next year we'll look to start distributing cash either share buybacks. 432 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 8: We have somewhat got caught in the tailwind of what's 433 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 8: going on with we work. Our stock prices is basically 434 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 8: depressed and people think we're in the real estate industry. 435 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 8: It's those two things together. But we will buy back 436 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 8: shares and you know there's CEM M and A we 437 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 8: can do and you know, potentially divings. But we're in 438 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 8: a very good situation with regard to leverage and cash flow. 439 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: Excellent. Great to get some time with you, Mark, Hope 440 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: we can talk to you again in the future. Mark Dixon. 441 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: They're the CEO of IWG. The ticker is i wg FF. 442 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 5: Here in the US, you're listening to the team Ken's 443 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 5: are Live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern 444 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 5: on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg 445 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 5: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 446 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: I want to get to, Well, we're going to talk 447 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: about the actual cage match that we've been talking about 448 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: for weeks, is it or is it not going to 449 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: happen between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. But we're also 450 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: going to talk about the comments President Biden made I 451 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: think yesterday about China, about the Communist Party leaders, about 452 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: Shijin Ping. 453 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 3: With verbal cage match. 454 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of it seems that way. He really 455 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: came out swinging. Howard chiwa Ewan joins us. He's an 456 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: international editor with Bloomberg Opinion. Howard, great to have you on. 457 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: I saw your newsletter this morning, the Opinion Rap, and 458 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: you kicked it off with this with these comments. I 459 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: thought President Biden and this administration wanted to get on 460 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: a friendlier footing with the Chinese, but he yesterday blasted 461 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: China's economic problems as a ticking time bomb. He said 462 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: the Communist Party leaders are bad folks, and he also said, 463 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: I think, most disturbingly, certainly from from their perspective, that 464 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: the Belton Road initiative. He called it the debt and 465 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: noose initiative. I mean, that's pretty hardcore, isn't it. 466 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 9: It's pretty hardcore. It sort of reminds me of when 467 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 9: Donald Trump said, I remember his bad ombre UH, when 468 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 9: he said bad folks. It just sort of reminded me 469 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 9: of all that UH and the UH the the news 470 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 9: UH comparison was particularly harsh because the Belt and Road 471 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 9: UH initiative by China has become a bit of a 472 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 9: UH weight around she's neck actually, because it's everyone complains 473 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 9: about how he's got that China's gotten all these developing 474 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 9: countries UH in that the problem is, of course, China 475 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 9: is left holding the bag if they don't pay anything back. 476 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 9: So so there is a there. It's a it's a 477 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 9: two sided, two edged swords, so so it's. 478 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: It was kind of howard, even a little bit more 479 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: Trumpian in that Biden seemed to be making up his 480 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: own facts which were not in fact facts, right. I 481 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: mean he said China percent growth exactly. 482 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,719 Speaker 9: When it was actually five point five. Well everyone is suspicious, 483 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 9: of course of Chinese numbers, but that is quite quite 484 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 9: a difference, especially when America the American growth rate is 485 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 9: about what one point two one point five. 486 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: He also made up his own demographics for China. 487 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 9: Yes, so he turned it into a very very very 488 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 9: old country when it isn't. Actually it's it's aging, but 489 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 9: it hasn't aged that quickly in the last couple of years. 490 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 3: But I mean, how is this different than the sort 491 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 3: of bombastic commentary that we constantly got from president former 492 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 3: President Trump? You know, I remember him talking about the 493 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 3: Chinese virus and I mean, yes, uh, that's sort of 494 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 3: rhetort rhetoric. How does this differ. How does it coming 495 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 3: from Biden differ? 496 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 9: I'm not sure. And that's why I'm a little I 497 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 9: worry about it sometimes when when when the President comes 498 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 9: out and talks this way and it feels like he's 499 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 9: just speaking off the cuff. 500 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 8: Uh. 501 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 9: I just worry that the things will get a combination 502 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 9: of certain things may happen, and and the same thing 503 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 9: that happened under Trump may happen again, which is that 504 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 9: people will take him a little too much of his 505 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 9: word and go after people they assume are the enemy. 506 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 9: Uh so uh, and these would be they're fellow Americans. 507 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 9: So I worry about things like that and I'm not 508 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 9: sure what the strategy is to speak this way, except 509 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 9: that the uh, the way American UH economic diplomacy has 510 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 9: been conducted over the years has basically been it's it's 511 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 9: a zero some game and basically, if you are the 512 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 9: main rival, UH, we're going we're going to destroy you. 513 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 6: So uh. 514 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 9: So it's and it's not that the Chinese are behaving otherwise, 515 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 9: but it is that sort of lack of feeling that 516 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 9: we're all in this together. There is a global economy 517 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 9: we should share, uh Dan Moss and his column was 518 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 9: was very good. He said, you know, there's there was 519 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 9: this period when everyone was growing at the same time, 520 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 9: and then suddenly the US went into recession, China had 521 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 9: to come in. Basically it was the Chinese economy that 522 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 9: buoyed the rest of the world. And so now there 523 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 9: it's the other way around, uh, and it's the the 524 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 9: US economy is expected to bring everyone along now that 525 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 9: the Chinese economy is down, and so there we we've 526 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 9: come into what maybe be a new cycle. 527 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 7: UH. 528 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 9: Dan very nicely points out that that uh that uh, 529 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 9: when the Chinese economy is down, the US economy has 530 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 9: to come in, and if it doesn't work, out that way, 531 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 9: then we're all in trouble. 532 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: Well, he was also supposed to be more serious. President 533 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: brings some gravitas to the office, actually speaking truths rather 534 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: than just making up numbers. And uh, it's so weird 535 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 1: that President Biden would say this to a group of 536 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: his own donors in Park City, right, he's not talking 537 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: to the general electorate. 538 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 9: No, it's it's it's quite surprising that he wasn't aware 539 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 9: the people around him weren't aware to let him know 540 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 9: that this was going to get out. 541 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: Let's let's get to the other, to the real cage match. 542 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: I mean, we hope it's real, right, we want this 543 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: to happen, Howard you I guess we're a fan of 544 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: the m m A at some point. I have paid 545 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: for a few fights myself. I think it's pretty fast stuff. 546 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: But if if two of the richest people in the 547 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: world get in the cage together, man, that would be cool. 548 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: Is it gonna happen? You know? 549 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 9: I think if they keep on talking this way, they'll 550 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 9: have to make it happen, even though they even though 551 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 9: one or both of them may not eventually want to 552 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 9: do it. 553 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 6: Uh. 554 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 9: And you know, I like all these matches it's a 555 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 9: game of cycle psycking each other out. So at this point, 556 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 9: uh Zuckerberg looks incredibly fit. Uh while uh while must 557 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 9: looks like he needs he might need more surgery for 558 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 9: that supposed injury to his neck. So uh so. But 559 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 9: but you know, as as you know, Matt, the fighters 560 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 9: like to psych each other out. And who knows, Musk 561 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 9: might pick the right time to do this, just like 562 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 9: Floyd Mayweather used to pick the right fights with with 563 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 9: with Manny Paco uh and uh and and who knows. 564 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 9: You can't really tell whether it would be the timing 565 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 9: that will decide who the winner is. 566 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,239 Speaker 3: Well, very interesting discussion there. I'm rooting for this. I'm 567 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: rooting for this match to happen. 568 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: I want it to happen too. And I want to say 569 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: that Howard has a great column on this. So if 570 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: you have a Bloomberg termine in front of you, type 571 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: OPI N go to check it out. 572 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 3: Howard. Thank you so much, Howard one joining us there. 573 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 5: You're listening to the tape cans Are Live program Bloomberg 574 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 5: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 575 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 5: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and. 576 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 4: The Bloomberg Business App. 577 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 5: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 578 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 5: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 579 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 3: We've been talking about remote work. Do people go back 580 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 3: to the offices all morning, especially with the CEO of 581 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: IWG who was talking about people wanting to be back 582 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 3: in the office, as we get a different flavor here 583 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 3: to bring in Hayden Brown. She's the CEO of Upwork. 584 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 3: This is a publicly traded company, reported earnings last week. 585 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 3: But before we get to kind of the numbers, in 586 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 3: the nitty gritty, Hayden, I want to understand do you 587 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 3: think that this wave of remote work is turning a corner, 588 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 3: perhaps ending a little bit, and then you know, do 589 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 3: you benefit or suffer from that at Upwork? 590 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 10: That's a great question. I think this is a long 591 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 10: term trend that's here to stay. Remote work. The cat 592 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 10: is out of the bag. And even though a lot 593 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 10: of companies are going back into the office, which is great, 594 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,719 Speaker 10: you know, every company is going to find their place 595 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,719 Speaker 10: on the spectrum of remote work, whether it's in office, 596 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 10: whether it's hybrid, or whether it's fully remote. The norms 597 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 10: and the capabilities that every company figured out over the 598 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 10: pandemic are things that will serve them well as they 599 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 10: now tap into some variety of room workers on a 600 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 10: platform like ours, you know, we serve the world with 601 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 10: freelance talent that they can access globally. These are professionals 602 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 10: on our platform, you know, doing one hundred and twenty 603 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 10: five plus categories of work. And every business, whether they're 604 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 10: back in the office or not, is tapping into these 605 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 10: types of professionals to augment and accelerate their work strategies. 606 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 10: So I think this is a long term trend that's 607 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 10: not reversing, even though there will be you know, fits 608 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 10: and starts as companies kind of navigate, you know, this 609 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 10: new normal. 610 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: I have to ask just quickly about your stock price 611 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: because it was soaring during the pandemic. You're one of 612 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: the darlings of the markets. It was up to sixty 613 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: dollars a share a few different times. Now it had 614 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: come back down to earth, but now it's heading back 615 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: up again. It was back down below ten and now 616 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: we're up above fourteen. How much do you have to 617 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: watch this? As an agent? I guess of the owner's 618 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: right of the company and what's influencing it. 619 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 10: You know, we are here building a business for the 620 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 10: long term through durable, profitable growth, and I think that's 621 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 10: really the story. This is a company that's still in 622 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 10: its early innings. Frankly, you know, we went public in 623 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 10: twenty eighteen and we are going after a trillion dollar TAM. 624 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 10: So this is TAM total addressable market. Okay, okay, So 625 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 10: we're unlocking a huge addressable market opportunity for our customers, 626 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 10: for our shareholders, and I think that's really the headline. 627 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 10: We did have a great quarter, you know, raised our 628 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 10: guidance for the year on both the top line and 629 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 10: the bottom line, but this is still a business that's 630 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 10: in its early innings, and I think that's what's really 631 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 10: exciting is we are executing well, we're performing well, and 632 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 10: yet we have a ton of runway ahead of us. 633 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: I mean, I see kind of a discrepancy here, right 634 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 3: because these companies are asking their workers to return to 635 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 3: the office because they believe they collaborate better. Yet you're 636 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 3: saying freelance on the rise and that there's a future 637 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 3: for this. Are there certain places where you're seeing a 638 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 3: particular uptake and demand with respect to the clients that 639 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 3: you know, the corporate clients that are looking for talent, 640 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 3: are there things that they're going to just want to 641 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 3: keep out of their business in the long term and 642 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 3: just kind of turn to outsource to freelance folks when 643 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: they need it. 644 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 10: You know, we serve every kind of company that is 645 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 10: looking for freelance talent, whether they're in office, whether they're 646 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 10: back working remotely, and also small companies through large enterprises 647 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 10: are turning to this model. You know, freelancing was a 648 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 10: secular trend that was on the rise prior to the pandemic, 649 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 10: and it only accelerated through the pandemic because workers figured 650 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 10: out that they really want to work this way. You know, 651 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 10: they are excited to have the freedom the flexibility to 652 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 10: do this, and we see younger generations of workers leaning 653 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 10: into this even more. Forty three percent of Generation Z 654 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 10: is freelancing right now. So companies are realizing if they 655 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 10: want to tap into the workers they need with the 656 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 10: skills they need, they absolutely have to be tapping into 657 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 10: the freelance economy. So this is why companies of all 658 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 10: sizes are tapping into this workforce, and certainly as they're 659 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 10: looking at things like generative AI, which is a huge 660 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 10: and growing category. For US, we saw these jobs increase 661 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 10: one thousand percent in Q two versus Q four. Companies 662 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 10: that need these types of workers with these types of 663 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 10: very current skills have to tap into freelancers to get 664 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 10: this type of work done. 665 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: I recently learned about traveling nurses. I had never realized 666 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: that it was such a massive industry. And I talked 667 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: with somebody who ran a company that helped you helped 668 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: them administrate their their jobs. It's interesting they make more 669 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: money than the nurses that are actually installed permanently at 670 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 1: the hospital. I'm wondering what the freelancers that you bring 671 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: in are making. I mean, my initial thought would be 672 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: they must not make very much money because they're freelancers, 673 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: But then maybe they do. It's the opposite that's amazing. 674 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 10: This is a this is a very lucrative career. And 675 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 10: I mean so in AI, for example, we're seeing people 676 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 10: with these skills are making fifty percent more than the average. 677 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 10: And again to your point, folks are joining the freelance 678 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 10: economy because this is a better way for them. It's 679 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 10: actually more safe and secure. They know they can't get 680 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 10: laid off, so this is something where they've got multiple 681 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 10: steady clients, and it really insulates them from the vagaries 682 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,479 Speaker 10: of the normal economy and they're earning more. We've heard 683 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 10: from our talent frequently they say no amount of money 684 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 10: would pay them to go back into a full time, 685 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 10: normal job because they make more, they have more freedom, 686 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 10: they more flexibility, they have control over their schedule. So 687 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 10: everything about the work arrangement as a freelancer is actually 688 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 10: working better for them. 689 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: Now. 690 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 10: Of course, this isn't a way of work that's going 691 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 10: to be suitable for everybody, but everyone has to do this. 692 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: That's like a gig economy. 693 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 10: No, no, not at all. I mean these are independent workers. 694 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 10: These are professionals. They set their own rates, they set 695 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 10: their own schedule, they negotiate all of this for themselves. 696 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 10: And these are independent entrepreneurs, you know, really working on 697 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 10: their own terms. 698 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 3: Do benefits kind of offset that at all? I mean, 699 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 3: these are people who have to go and probably get 700 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 3: their own healthcare, all that sort of thing. 701 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 10: I mean, it depends on the geography. 702 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: Of course. 703 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 10: In the US, you know, we have a certain benefit 704 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 10: setup and also we you know, serve customers all over 705 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 10: the globe, so some of them are buying their own benefits. 706 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 10: Some of them obviously are in you a relationship with 707 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 10: a spouse who has those benefits, So it really depends 708 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 10: on the worker, but that is absolutely not in heediment 709 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,959 Speaker 10: for them to being able to work this way. 710 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: It definitely lays bare, I'm sure for you the stark 711 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: differences between the healthcare system in this country and those 712 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: in other countries. 713 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 10: It totally does. But when you think about it, you know, 714 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 10: no one should be barred from working the way they 715 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 10: want and doing the job they want just because of 716 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 10: a benefits issue, right, And that's just the saddest thing. 717 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 10: But that's what we see people saying. You know what, 718 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 10: even if the benefits are more challenging, I still want 719 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 10: to go and work this way, and absolutely they should 720 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:25,879 Speaker 10: be empowered to do that, all. 721 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: Right, Hayden, thanks so much for coming in. Fascinating conversation, 722 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: fascinating business as well. Hayden Brown is the CEO of Upwork, 723 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: the ticker on the Nasdaq up WUK, and I, you know, 724 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: I think this is all part of the way the 725 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: economy changed post pandemic. It's not like we're going to 726 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: go back to normal. We're progressing into the future. 727 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 5: You're listening to the tape catch a live program Bloomberg 728 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 5: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 729 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 5: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and. 730 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,479 Speaker 4: The Bloomberg Business App. 731 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 5: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 732 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 5: flagship New York station, Jo Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 733 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: Lisa Donahue joins US co Head of the Americas in 734 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: Asia at the global consultancy firm Alex Partners. Lisa, thanks 735 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. A lot going on on 736 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: this Friday that we thought was going to be a 737 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: slow day in August, but in terms of the markets, 738 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: it really is still slow and it has been all week. 739 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: Even though we got inflation data. It just kind of 740 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: proved what we thought we already knew. How do you 741 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: look at the current US economic and Wall Street market 742 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:36,399 Speaker 1: situation right now? 743 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 11: First, thanks for having me, and yes, very busy day today. 744 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 11: You know, I think some of the market information that 745 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 11: we're getting continues on the trend of confusing. Right If 746 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 11: you look at the consumer debt and you look at 747 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 11: the credit card debt, it's up to one trillion, and 748 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 11: that would suggest that the consumer is feeling comfortable, and 749 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 11: perhaps they are, but also seeing signs of a little 750 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 11: bit of a pullback which continues on the trend of 751 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 11: push pull, which I think your reporter had just said. So, 752 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 11: what we're seeing is, you know, companies and leaders are 753 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 11: thinking ahead and they are taking this confusion time as 754 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 11: an opportunity to really work on the hygiene of their 755 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 11: businesses and think about what they should be doing to 756 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 11: be prepared for the continued disruption and the continued you know, 757 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 11: lack of clarity on where we're going from inflation, interest rates, disruption, 758 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,800 Speaker 11: you know, war in Ukraine, et cetera. 759 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 3: Well, Lisa, before we get some of the product geopolitical issues, 760 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 3: you talk about hygiene of the business. Cost cutting layoffs 761 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 3: has been a theme we've seen across tech and finance. 762 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 3: To a degree, have we gone have business has gone 763 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 3: too far at this point? 764 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 11: You know, when I say hygiene, I don't necessarily mean layoffs. 765 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 11: I mean taking a look at non core assets, taking 766 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 11: a look at your employee base and is there upskilling 767 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 11: that you have to do? Are you is your organization 768 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 11: and the way you're aligned does it fit for purpose? 769 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 11: You know, in some cases it might mean layoffs, but 770 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 11: in a lot of cases it doesn't. It could mean 771 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 11: just taking a look strategically at what you're doing and 772 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 11: should you be doing things differently In terms. 773 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: Of the geopolitical issues US China, I mean President Biden 774 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: already kind of ratchet those ratchet of those up last 775 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: night saying that they're bad folks, and he called the 776 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 1: Belton Roade initiative the debt and noose initiative. Now we've got, 777 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, us more problems in US politics. Does this 778 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: unrest play into your strategy at all? 779 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 11: You know it does in some ways. What we're seeing 780 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 11: some of our clients doing is is looking at alternatives 781 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 11: and parallel supply chains. Because if one thing COVID and 782 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 11: that major disruption to actually getting product taught us is 783 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 11: that yes, low cost is important, but surety of products 784 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 11: is as important, if not more important. So what we're 785 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 11: seeing as a result of the political uncertainty, you know, 786 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 11: the relations with China, some of the Russian concerns, is 787 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 11: we're seeing more on shoring and more alternative sourcing for 788 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 11: where to put your supply chain. We're seeing folks go 789 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 11: to Japan as an alternative from an APAC perspective, and 790 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 11: we're seeing folks really looking at shortening the supply chains 791 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 11: and looking, as I said, at other considerations instead of 792 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 11: just price. 793 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 3: With respect to moving business assets around. We had a 794 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 3: really great, big take earlier in the week about how 795 00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 3: trade is and the incentives offered by the Inflation Reduction 796 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 3: Act or really shaking things up for where companies put 797 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 3: their manufacturing, where they hire groups of new people. How 798 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 3: much interest are the executives you're speaking to giving to 799 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 3: where can I get the best the best incentives? And 800 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 3: how much more is the answer of the United States 801 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 3: than it was maybe six months ago. 802 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,879 Speaker 11: You know, I think it's it's a big consideration. And 803 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 11: we talk with a lot of folks on a global basis, 804 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 11: And I was speaking with the CEO of a large 805 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 11: energy company that super focused on renewables and you know, 806 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 11: green initiatives, and they were talking about the genius of 807 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 11: this act and that it is ultimately going to make 808 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 11: the US more competitive when it comes to renewable green 809 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 11: initiatives because of the incentives that are baked in to it. 810 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 11: So I do think that it is something that leaders 811 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,240 Speaker 11: are thinking of and should be thinking of as part 812 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,399 Speaker 11: of the full picture on where you want to put 813 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 11: your investment dollars. 814 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 1: Rates are rising obviously five hundred and fifty basis points 815 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: since last March, and as inflation comes down, the real 816 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,479 Speaker 1: rates even higher. How much more difficult does this make 817 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: the investment outlook or does it make things even juicier? 818 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 11: Well, I think it depends on your perspective. 819 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:30,919 Speaker 6: Right. 820 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 11: If you are a private equity firm and you're looking 821 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 11: to do deals, which is what they do, it means 822 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 11: they have to look at diligence deeper, They have to 823 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 11: look at synergistic opportunities more. They have to be a 824 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 11: little more creative from a structuring perspective because the cost 825 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 11: of capital is so much higher. If you are a 826 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 11: semiconduction manufacturer and you're trying to onshore, which we're seeing 827 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 11: a lot of in the US, you need to look 828 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 11: at alternatives. You need to look at quasi equity type 829 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 11: investments in addition to just that. So I think it's 830 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,919 Speaker 11: forcing folks to be a bit more creative in how 831 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 11: they structure and where their investment dollars are going. 832 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: All right, Lisa, thanks so much for joining us. Sorry 833 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: that we took a little longer to get to you 834 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,720 Speaker 1: today because of the breaking news, but we really appreciate 835 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: you sticking with us Lisa Donahue, co head of the 836 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: Americas in Asia and at the global consultancy firm Alex Partners. 837 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: Great to have you. 838 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 5: You're listening to the tape cans Are Live program Bloomberg 839 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 5: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 840 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,839 Speaker 5: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and. 841 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 4: The Bloomberg Business App. 842 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 5: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 843 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 5: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 844 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 1: I want to get back to the breaking news that 845 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: we have Hunter Biden, the Hunter Biden probe over the 846 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: DOJ has been assigned a special council. So we saw 847 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: briefly Merrek Garland come out and make a statement appointing 848 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: this special counsel to oversee the government's ongoing criminal investigation 849 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: into President Biden's son over his taxes, as well as 850 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: a number of other issues. Certainly the Republicans hope there 851 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,919 Speaker 1: will be another number of other issues there. We have 852 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: Nick Ackerman on the phone right now. He's a former 853 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: assistant special Watergate prosecutor, and Nick, you know, typically we 854 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,439 Speaker 1: would talk to you about all things Trump. Increasingly these 855 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,280 Speaker 1: conversations are about the Biden family, certainly about Hunter Biden. 856 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: We thought it was all going to be over a 857 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago at the plea agreement, and now 858 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: it's come to this. Are you surprised, Not completely. 859 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 7: I was surprised that the plea didn't go down on 860 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 7: the day it was supposed to, but since then this 861 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 7: is not at all surprising. I think it was pretty 862 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 7: clear at that point that definitely would not have taken 863 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 7: care of all the other matters of that might be 864 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 7: under investigation. And I think that Merrick Garland did the 865 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 7: right thing. Appointed Weiss, had made it official that he's 866 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 7: really a special prosecutor in this thing, and that he 867 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 7: has complete independence as he had before. And I think 868 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 7: it just solidifies that. Don't forget he was appointed initially 869 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 7: as the US Attorney in Delaware, Yeah, by Donald Trump. 870 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,719 Speaker 7: So I think this just you know, provides more distance 871 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 7: between the Department of Justice and the prosecutor, but does 872 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 7: it give him. 873 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 3: Any extra tools. I just you know, it seems like 874 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,360 Speaker 3: an investigation had had been happening for a long time. 875 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 3: All the members of the Biden administration had said, you know, 876 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 3: Mary Garland's given him a bunch of tools whatever he wants, 877 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 3: but now you know the escalation here. June Grassa was 878 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 3: just with us, she's a legal analyst at Bloomberg Law 879 00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,479 Speaker 3: and was saying, you know, this looks like political move 880 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:00,800 Speaker 3: a plain and simple. 881 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 7: Well, I think it's part of what Merrick Garland has 882 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 7: done all around. I mean, he has tried, on these 883 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:13,320 Speaker 7: types of cases that affects the administration and particularly Joe Biden, 884 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,279 Speaker 7: to make sure that the person who's doing the investigation, 885 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 7: whether it's Jack Smith or whether it's wise, that they 886 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 7: are completely independent. I mean, I think what Garland is 887 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:30,360 Speaker 7: trying to do is basically used the model of Archibald Cox, 888 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 7: who has made the first Watergate special prosecutor where he 889 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:40,359 Speaker 7: really had total independence, wasn't answerable to the Department of Justice. 890 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 7: And I think that's what Merrick Garland is trying to 891 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 7: set up, so that there is complete buffer between the 892 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 7: Department of Justice and Joe Biden. I mean, I think 893 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 7: that's really the whole purpose of this is to have 894 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 7: somebody in there who is truly independent, and I think 895 00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 7: this was a way to make it more formalized, particularly 896 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 7: if there are other areas to be investigated. Now having 897 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 7: said that, a question, you know what is left to investigate, 898 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,879 Speaker 7: mainly because you've got a statute of limitations that goes 899 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 7: for five years and most of these matters, and if 900 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 7: you take the two tax crimes, they were at a period 901 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 7: of time. Now that's getting beyond a normal statute of 902 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 7: limitations for anything, probably other than tax crimes. So I just, 903 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 7: you know, I think it's in some senses it is 904 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 7: political to the extent that it's set up so that 905 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 7: there is no question of politics not being involved. I mean, 906 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,760 Speaker 7: I think, you know, to the extent you're saying it's political, 907 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 7: I'm having complete independence from the Department of Justice and 908 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 7: from Merrick Garland. Just adds to the fact that the 909 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 7: person has the independent ability to do what he's doing, 910 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:04,960 Speaker 7: and even onto this crazy special prosecutor regulation, it's supposedly 911 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 7: the special prosecutor ultimately answers to the Attorney General. I 912 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,120 Speaker 7: think that Merrick Garland has been and made it clear 913 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 7: that he's been totally hands off on all of these matters, 914 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 7: whether it's Jack Smith or now it's going to be wise. 915 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,879 Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, Nick, wouldn't they have been a lot 916 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: better off if they've done this from the get go. 917 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 1: Because the concerns are on the Republican side, not just 918 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:33,320 Speaker 1: the tax crimes or the gun issue, but the the 919 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: sort of foot dragging, you know, the idea that if 920 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: the president's son is a tax evader, he can get 921 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: away with it, or he'll be given a lighter sentence, 922 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: Like wouldn't President Biden or the administration of Ben smarter 923 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,279 Speaker 1: to get this out of the way at the at 924 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:52,240 Speaker 1: the beginning. 925 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,279 Speaker 7: Oh, I totally agree with you, But I think from 926 00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 7: Merrick Donland's standpoint, appointing somebody who to investigated, who was 927 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 7: a Trump appointee as US attorney in Delaware had the 928 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 7: same effect, But in some ways it didn't. And I 929 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,399 Speaker 7: think what he's trying to do is emphasize that now. 930 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 7: It also sends a signal that there are other matters 931 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 7: to be investigated. He wouldn't be doing this unless there 932 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 7: was something more to investigate beyond the tax crimes. So 933 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,719 Speaker 7: I think this probably also signals the fact that there's 934 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,839 Speaker 7: not going to be a plea anytime soon. That I 935 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 7: think that there are other matters that they're looking at, 936 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 7: and I don't think they're in a position yet to 937 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 7: say they're going to put this all behind Hunter Biden. 938 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:40,359 Speaker 9: Yeah. 939 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,319 Speaker 3: I mean, so there was this closed door testimony of 940 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 3: Hunter Biden's x business partner, Devin Archer, and I think 941 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 3: the takeaway from some of the press was that this 942 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:58,640 Speaker 3: didn't really back up the Republicans accusing President Biden, you know, 943 00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,000 Speaker 3: of crime and and corruption. But there were some bits 944 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,279 Speaker 3: and pieces in there. Was there anything there for you 945 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,759 Speaker 3: that you thought, you know, this might be potentially the 946 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 3: subjective of the a probe that could be continued under 947 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:14,440 Speaker 3: David Wise. 948 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, not really. I mean it sounded like Hunter Biden 949 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,919 Speaker 7: had his dad caught in a couple of times, five 950 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,839 Speaker 7: times over a long period of time, basically trading off 951 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,319 Speaker 7: his name but trading off his connection. You know, a 952 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 7: lot of other presidents in the past have had the 953 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,399 Speaker 7: same problem, and Richard Nixon did, Jimmy Carter did, even 954 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,080 Speaker 7: Hillary Quinton had this problem with her brother that relatives. 955 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,080 Speaker 7: You know, if you can pick your friends, but you 956 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,840 Speaker 7: can't pick your relatives basically, and it's always been something 957 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,920 Speaker 7: that's be deviled presidents and people in high public office. 958 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,000 Speaker 7: So I don't think it really reflected that there was 959 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,279 Speaker 7: any there there. But look, the public has to be 960 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,319 Speaker 7: assured that everything is being done by the book that 961 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,759 Speaker 7: everything that's out there is being investigated, and at the 962 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 7: end of the day, I think this will give that assurance. 963 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,840 Speaker 7: You know, One he's a special made the special counsel 964 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 7: on this, and two he was a former Trump appointee 965 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,560 Speaker 7: Ian a Republican who was the Delaware US attorney who's 966 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,040 Speaker 7: been kept on and he's the one investigating it. So 967 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 7: I really don't see how you can have anybody with 968 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,840 Speaker 7: any better credentials to do this than Weiss. And I 969 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 7: think this, you know, provides exactly what needs. 970 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:40,919 Speaker 4: To be done. 971 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: Did we find out who the big guy was? 972 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:43,319 Speaker 4: Nick? 973 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,080 Speaker 1: I mean if in the emails that the post got 974 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: out of the laptop in the quote on the CFC 975 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 1: China Energy venture, when they said held by h for 976 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,360 Speaker 1: the big guy, did we ever figure out who that was? Us? 977 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:05,399 Speaker 1: Did we lose Nick? 978 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 7: Oh? 979 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:07,600 Speaker 3: No, I think we might have lost Nick. 980 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,720 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the I'm looking at the zoom screen. 981 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,279 Speaker 1: Oh no, Nick, there you are? So did we did we? 982 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,840 Speaker 1: Do we care? I mean, is there any there there? 983 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,279 Speaker 7: Well, so far they haven't found any there there. But 984 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,800 Speaker 7: it doesn't mean that they shouldn't investigate it and assure 985 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,160 Speaker 7: the public that they've looked at everything before they close 986 00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,359 Speaker 7: out the case. I think that is what they've got 987 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 7: to do, all right, and that's what Licen's job is. 988 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,440 Speaker 1: Yep. Nick, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate 989 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,440 Speaker 1: you jumping in on this breaking news. Nick Ackerman, former 990 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:41,320 Speaker 1: special Watergate Watergate prosecutor, talking to us about the breaking 991 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,920 Speaker 1: news that the Department of Justice will appoint a special 992 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,080 Speaker 1: prosecutor in the Hunter Biden probe and that that prosecutor 993 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:58,400 Speaker 1: is David Weiss. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. 994 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,000 Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listens into interviews with Apple Podcasts 995 00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm 996 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm 997 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: Faull Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. 998 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,360 Speaker 6: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at 999 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 6: Bloomberg Radio