WEBVTT - Episode 1: The Rumor 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:23.236 Pushkin. I've been a journalist for twenty five years, and 0:00:23.436 --> 0:00:25.476 there's this little ritual that I do at the end 0:00:25.516 --> 0:00:29.836 of every interview. When it works, it shakes everything up, 0:00:30.116 --> 0:00:33.876 creates a bit of chaos. I call it the hail 0:00:33.996 --> 0:00:37.716 Mary of questions. It's like a last ditch effort to 0:00:37.756 --> 0:00:42.516 find something, anything that I might have missed. I just say, hey, 0:00:43.116 --> 0:00:46.636 what's a question I should have asked you. Most of 0:00:46.676 --> 0:00:49.996 the time, like ninety percent of the time, the answer 0:00:50.076 --> 0:00:52.316 is I don't know. I think we covered it all. 0:00:53.396 --> 0:00:58.556 But every once in a while a person says, well, 0:00:59.116 --> 0:01:03.036 there is one thing we didn't talk about, and then 0:01:03.316 --> 0:01:07.756 they drop a bomb, say something totally unexpected, And at 0:01:07.756 --> 0:01:14.556 that moment I always imagine a door creaking open. That, 0:01:15.156 --> 0:01:18.356 in a nutshell, is what this season is about. It's 0:01:18.396 --> 0:01:22.276 about a guy, two guys actually, who come upon just 0:01:22.356 --> 0:01:25.316 such a door, and on the other side of it 0:01:25.356 --> 0:01:35.036 is a very dark secret. These two guys were federal officers. 0:01:35.476 --> 0:01:38.076 One of them was an FBI agent based in Delaware 0:01:38.396 --> 0:01:43.356 named Scott Duffy and Scott he has his own version 0:01:43.556 --> 0:01:44.716 of the hail Mary question. 0:01:45.956 --> 0:01:48.956 One of the things that like I will routinely do, 0:01:49.676 --> 0:01:54.476 is is there anything that we should be looking at 0:01:56.316 --> 0:01:59.476 that could be investigated that we're not looking at. 0:02:00.956 --> 0:02:04.116 Back in two thousand and four, Scott posed this very 0:02:04.236 --> 0:02:08.116 question to a woman named Patricia Miller. At the time, 0:02:08.276 --> 0:02:11.316 Scott was visiting Patricia at her home in Delaware to 0:02:11.396 --> 0:02:14.996 learn more about her ex boyfriend, a guy named Tom Guybison. 0:02:15.916 --> 0:02:18.876 There had been some rumors that Tom, her ex, was 0:02:18.876 --> 0:02:22.236 plotting to go after a local cop, and the FBI 0:02:22.316 --> 0:02:24.836 had asked Scott to look into this to do a 0:02:24.916 --> 0:02:28.996 so called threat assessment. Scott didn't get that much out 0:02:29.036 --> 0:02:32.996 of this interview with Patricia, but before leaving, he tossed 0:02:33.036 --> 0:02:37.036 out his hal Mary question, and that's when she told 0:02:37.076 --> 0:02:38.636 him about the murder. 0:02:39.516 --> 0:02:43.196 She mentions, well, there is this alleged murder to have 0:02:43.236 --> 0:02:48.436 taken place, that when he was in high school, that 0:02:48.636 --> 0:02:52.436 he had committed a murder for black man in order 0:02:52.516 --> 0:02:57.396 to gain access into this white supremacy group within Delaware. 0:02:58.516 --> 0:03:01.876 Patricia goes on to say that Tom, her ex, was 0:03:02.236 --> 0:03:05.076 proud of this murder. It happened back when he was younger, 0:03:05.076 --> 0:03:08.756 a teenager, but even years later he bragged about what 0:03:08.796 --> 0:03:12.676 he does, how he'd driven into Philadelphia late at night 0:03:12.996 --> 0:03:17.476 and shot a pedestrian, a random black man, all allegedly 0:03:17.636 --> 0:03:21.076 so we could earn some street cred as a racist skinhead. 0:03:28.116 --> 0:03:32.356 Scott pressed Patricia for details. Was there any evidence? Did 0:03:32.396 --> 0:03:36.316 she have any proof? According to Scott, she talked about 0:03:36.356 --> 0:03:39.916 a newspaper article from the time about the man's death 0:03:40.556 --> 0:03:44.036 and how it was described as a drug related killing. 0:03:44.716 --> 0:03:46.956 She said that Tom held onto this article for a 0:03:46.996 --> 0:03:51.716 while so we could brag about it, intimating no one knows, 0:03:52.236 --> 0:03:56.356 but I did this. I killed this guy. That's what 0:03:56.396 --> 0:04:01.796 Patricia said. Anyhow, all of this got Scott thinking, if 0:04:01.796 --> 0:04:05.996 this murder really happened, maybe it wasn't so random after all. 0:04:06.796 --> 0:04:09.916 Maybe it was predicated on a callous, cynical piece of 0:04:09.996 --> 0:04:14.116 logic that no one would care about this victim, or 0:04:14.156 --> 0:04:17.276 at least no one in a position of power or authority. 0:04:18.236 --> 0:04:20.836 If there's no evidence, and there's no witnesses, no cameras, 0:04:21.556 --> 0:04:24.236 so let's move on, and that's what Tom would be 0:04:24.276 --> 0:04:27.436 banking on, and just be a drug deal gone back. 0:04:27.636 --> 0:04:29.916 That bothered me, That bothered me. 0:04:32.036 --> 0:04:34.956 Scott may have been upset about all this, but he 0:04:35.076 --> 0:04:37.996 was also at a loss. How do you investigate a 0:04:38.076 --> 0:04:42.156 murder when you don't even know who the victim is. Eventually, 0:04:42.236 --> 0:04:44.396 Scott and his partner paid a visit to the Free 0:04:44.396 --> 0:04:48.476 Public Library of Philadelphia. They wanted to find that newspaper 0:04:48.556 --> 0:04:53.156 article covering the victim's death. Scott recalled Patricia saying it 0:04:53.196 --> 0:04:57.036 was in the Philadelphia Inquirer. They felt like if they 0:04:57.036 --> 0:05:00.196 could just somehow get a hold of that article, it 0:05:00.316 --> 0:05:02.236 might answer so many questions. 0:05:03.036 --> 0:05:05.716 In other words, would this give us a name? Would 0:05:05.716 --> 0:05:08.636 this give us a location? Would this give us a date? 0:05:08.716 --> 0:05:10.876 Because we still didn't have a date. 0:05:11.036 --> 0:05:14.276 But there's got to be countless articles people that were 0:05:14.276 --> 0:05:15.876 just randomly killed in Philadelphia. 0:05:15.956 --> 0:05:18.396 Not only countless articles, but then you realize there are 0:05:18.396 --> 0:05:21.396 other newspapers. What if she's wrong, it's not the Philadelphia Inquiry. 0:05:22.356 --> 0:05:25.596 It sounds like a fool's Errand I'm glad we did it. 0:05:26.396 --> 0:05:30.676 I'm glad we made the trip, but I don't think 0:05:30.716 --> 0:05:32.076 we found anything. Nothing. 0:05:33.116 --> 0:05:38.116 So game over right. I mean, this murder, if it 0:05:38.196 --> 0:05:42.716 even happened, would have occurred approximately fifteen years prior. It 0:05:42.796 --> 0:05:46.956 was a cold case. And yet Scott and his partner, 0:05:47.116 --> 0:05:50.916 a guy named Terry Mortimer, they had this feeling that 0:05:51.316 --> 0:05:53.036 if they persisted. 0:05:53.436 --> 0:05:59.796 We might uncover something. Were destined to uncover. That may 0:05:59.876 --> 0:06:06.276 sound corny, but I felt something. I think Terry felt something, 0:06:07.036 --> 0:06:09.036 and we didn't know quite what, and it could have 0:06:09.036 --> 0:06:12.796 been absolutely taking us down another rabbit hole of something 0:06:12.836 --> 0:06:14.236 that's just never could be proven. 0:06:14.916 --> 0:06:15.836 So what do you do with that? 0:06:16.716 --> 0:06:18.236 Exactly? What do you do with that? What do you 0:06:18.276 --> 0:06:19.276 do with something that's. 0:06:19.196 --> 0:06:20.956 Yeah and not to be cute, but you can't exactly 0:06:20.956 --> 0:06:22.676 go back to your boss and say that me and 0:06:22.756 --> 0:06:27.836 Terry feel a sense of destiny here right now. So 0:06:27.916 --> 0:06:31.236 this was mission creep big time. Plus, it's not like 0:06:31.276 --> 0:06:34.796 there was anyone that they knew of anyhow demanding justice 0:06:34.836 --> 0:06:36.076 for the victim. 0:06:36.436 --> 0:06:40.436 Terry and I could have easily said we're done and 0:06:40.676 --> 0:06:44.876 let's walk away. Nobody's going to be calling us to say, hey, 0:06:44.956 --> 0:06:47.796 Terry and Scott, do you have any updates for us? 0:06:48.716 --> 0:06:50.996 You know we're waiting. We haven't heard back from you 0:06:51.356 --> 0:06:52.116 that was missing. 0:06:53.156 --> 0:06:56.596 But is somewhere in the back of your head, are 0:06:56.636 --> 0:06:59.716 you imagining that, like there is a mother or brother 0:07:00.316 --> 0:07:03.636 who's trying to understand or figure out what may have 0:07:03.676 --> 0:07:07.316 happened to their loved one that was left for dead. 0:07:07.596 --> 0:07:16.956 I think that that aspect was the driving factor we 0:07:17.236 --> 0:07:22.356 couldn't just leave it alone. Somehow it was making sense 0:07:23.716 --> 0:07:26.676 that Terry and I were put together for this very 0:07:27.516 --> 0:07:33.996 reason of solving this hate crime, this murder that took 0:07:34.036 --> 0:07:37.476 place on the streets of Philadelphia because somebody was black, 0:07:39.036 --> 0:07:45.556 that we've felt like we had a duty to this person, 0:07:45.596 --> 0:07:50.156 and somehow this person was drawing us. 0:07:52.276 --> 0:07:56.316 And that's it. You can almost hear it, the door 0:07:56.636 --> 0:08:03.596 creaking open. This is a story about what happens when 0:08:03.676 --> 0:08:08.636 two guys uncover a clue about something terrible, something evil, 0:08:09.396 --> 0:08:12.316 a crime for which there has been no justice, and 0:08:12.356 --> 0:08:15.916 they have nothing to go on. They don't have a victim, 0:08:16.316 --> 0:08:33.876 don't have a body, don't even have a name. I'm 0:08:33.956 --> 0:08:38.316 Jake Halper and this is Deep Cover, Season four, The 0:08:38.396 --> 0:09:05.716 Nameless Man, Episode one. The rumor, so to recap, Scott 0:09:05.756 --> 0:09:08.796 and Terry's investigation did not start off as a quest 0:09:08.796 --> 0:09:13.636 to sell the cold case now or find a murder victim. Originally, 0:09:13.996 --> 0:09:16.796 back in two thousand and four, they were asked to 0:09:16.836 --> 0:09:20.476 do a threat assessment on Tom Gybison. That's why they 0:09:20.556 --> 0:09:24.916 interviewed the ex girlfriend. At the time, Tom Gobison was 0:09:24.916 --> 0:09:27.876 thirty three years old. He was in federal prison on 0:09:27.996 --> 0:09:31.636 gun charges, but he was about to be released, and 0:09:31.676 --> 0:09:35.716 the FEDS had some intel that Tom might be seeking retribution, 0:09:36.436 --> 0:09:39.356 planning to harm the cop who'd put him behind bars. 0:09:40.316 --> 0:09:43.276 This is why the FEDS were called in, and initially 0:09:43.516 --> 0:09:47.076 this was Scott and Terry's top priority to determine if 0:09:47.076 --> 0:09:50.196 this threat was real. But they came up short and 0:09:50.236 --> 0:09:53.356 at some point stopped looking into Tom for the threat assessment. 0:09:54.236 --> 0:09:58.356 But they still have this rumor, this side story that 0:09:58.516 --> 0:10:02.236 some fifteen years prior, back in the nineteen eighties, when 0:10:02.276 --> 0:10:04.836 Tom was still in high school, that he may have 0:10:04.956 --> 0:10:09.436 killed a black man in Philadelphia. Who this this man 0:10:09.516 --> 0:10:14.196 might be. They had no idea, but they kept poking around. 0:10:14.956 --> 0:10:17.436 They wanted to see what they could learn about Tom 0:10:17.516 --> 0:10:23.156 Guybison and if he had any connections to white supremacist gangs. 0:10:24.716 --> 0:10:28.836 And this is where Terry Mortimer, Scott's partner, really came 0:10:28.876 --> 0:10:29.436 into play. 0:10:30.316 --> 0:10:32.916 And this is the thing about gangs is there are gangs, 0:10:32.956 --> 0:10:35.716 and there's like, you know, not real gangs that people 0:10:35.716 --> 0:10:37.236 say they're part of a gang, but they aren't. Kind 0:10:37.276 --> 0:10:37.556 of thing. 0:10:38.316 --> 0:10:41.716 Terry was a special agent with the ATF the Bureau 0:10:41.796 --> 0:10:46.916 of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. He worked in intelligence, 0:10:47.596 --> 0:10:52.996 and he focused heavily on guns and gangs. So Terry 0:10:52.996 --> 0:10:55.476 wanted to know what was Tom's deal. 0:10:56.756 --> 0:11:00.156 I knew he of course was imprisoned obviously for gun charges. 0:11:00.276 --> 0:11:04.916 You know, spent a good stint in prison federally he 0:11:04.956 --> 0:11:06.676 had I guess prior contact with the law. 0:11:07.356 --> 0:11:10.156 Terry learned that Tom was first to rested at the 0:11:10.196 --> 0:11:14.076 age of fourteen on a deadly weapons charge. A few 0:11:14.156 --> 0:11:17.356 years later, when he was nineteen, he was convicted of 0:11:17.396 --> 0:11:20.716 reckless endangerment after he shot a gun at a moving 0:11:20.836 --> 0:11:26.396 car full of people. At the time, a local newspaper 0:11:26.436 --> 0:11:30.596 in Wilmington, Delaware ran an article on Tom. It described 0:11:30.636 --> 0:11:34.276 him as a hulking weightlifter with a number of tattoos, 0:11:34.316 --> 0:11:37.676 including a clenched fist on the top of his scalp 0:11:37.836 --> 0:11:40.916 and the words born in the USA on the back 0:11:40.956 --> 0:11:44.516 of his neck. In the article, Guybison says at one 0:11:44.556 --> 0:11:48.996 time he was a blue collar skinhead. Tom defined this 0:11:49.036 --> 0:11:53.636 as quote buying American, not doing drugs, and not drinking. 0:11:54.956 --> 0:11:58.156 To be clear, there are different types of skinheads, not 0:11:58.236 --> 0:12:01.956 all are racists, but in the late eighties and early nineties, 0:12:02.316 --> 0:12:05.316 skinheads were emerging as the face of violent right wing 0:12:05.396 --> 0:12:09.396 nationalism in the US. Their notoriety seemed to really peak 0:12:09.436 --> 0:12:12.436 at that time. One headline from eighty nine and the 0:12:12.436 --> 0:12:18.036 New York Times read violent racism attracts new breed skinheads. 0:12:19.636 --> 0:12:23.476 So the possibility that a racist skinhead might have orchestrated 0:12:23.556 --> 0:12:28.476 murder it was plausible, but that alone wasn't a whole 0:12:28.516 --> 0:12:35.756 lot to go on. Scott and Terry decided to focus 0:12:35.796 --> 0:12:39.396 on what Patricia, the ex girlfriend, had told them. They 0:12:39.396 --> 0:12:43.396 honed in on two clues in particular. The first clue 0:12:43.676 --> 0:12:47.996 involved a tattoo. Patricia mentioned that Tom had a tattoo 0:12:48.396 --> 0:12:50.956 of a spider web on his elbow with a tear 0:12:51.036 --> 0:12:54.316 drop in it, and that he liked to brag that 0:12:54.396 --> 0:12:58.436 he'd gotten it, essentially as a badge of honor for 0:12:58.596 --> 0:13:00.836 killing a black man in Philadelphia. 0:13:01.436 --> 0:13:04.756 I know enough about gang members is sometimes things aren't 0:13:04.756 --> 0:13:07.196 what they say they are. That they though might get 0:13:07.236 --> 0:13:09.716 a tattoo and purported to be something that's really isn't true, 0:13:09.836 --> 0:13:11.796 or just kind of build their rap a little bit. 0:13:12.516 --> 0:13:15.636 Terry was skeptical that Tom had killed someone just to 0:13:15.716 --> 0:13:20.276 join this skinhead gang. Maybe Tom was just posing building 0:13:20.356 --> 0:13:23.916 up his rep as a really violent dude. I mean Honestly, 0:13:24.516 --> 0:13:26.596 maybe this whole thing was bullshit, right. 0:13:27.276 --> 0:13:30.716 I couldn't really establish, you know, intelligence wise, of Tommy 0:13:30.796 --> 0:13:32.756 was part of a skinhead gang. I didn't think he was. 0:13:32.796 --> 0:13:35.636 I think he was kind of more self described skinhead. 0:13:36.316 --> 0:13:40.516 And this raised the question, would a self described skinhead 0:13:40.756 --> 0:13:44.236 acting on his own, really murder someone for what? So 0:13:44.316 --> 0:13:46.836 he could give himself a tattoo? And all of this 0:13:46.996 --> 0:13:52.036 while he was still in high school seemed like a stretch. Okay, 0:13:52.236 --> 0:13:55.156 here's the second clue, and it was a promising one. 0:13:55.956 --> 0:13:59.876 According to the ex girlfriend Patricia, Tom had bragged about 0:13:59.916 --> 0:14:05.156 having an accomplice, a guy named Craig Peterson. Allegedly they 0:14:05.316 --> 0:14:08.916 orchestrated this murder together and both of them got those 0:14:09.156 --> 0:14:14.756 aim spider web tattoos. Now, if this was true, and 0:14:14.836 --> 0:14:17.796 if they could find Craig and if he would talk, 0:14:18.356 --> 0:14:22.116 well that'd be huge. But that was a lot of ifs. 0:14:22.876 --> 0:14:26.716 So they started combing through public records, asking around about 0:14:26.756 --> 0:14:31.196 this Craig guy to supposed accomplice, and here's what they found. 0:14:31.796 --> 0:14:34.516 Craig was an old buddy from Tom's high school days. 0:14:35.076 --> 0:14:40.636 He also identified specifically as a blue collar skinhead. Craig 0:14:40.676 --> 0:14:43.476 had grown up in Delaware, but as far as anyone 0:14:43.476 --> 0:14:46.956 could tell, he wasn't living there anymore. Seemed like he 0:14:47.356 --> 0:14:51.876 kind of disappeared. And then they got a lead. 0:14:52.596 --> 0:14:54.916 We found out he's in He's in Vermont, like a 0:14:55.196 --> 0:14:59.636 remote part of Vermont. And I remember, I said, this 0:14:59.716 --> 0:15:03.996 dude's hiding. Man, he's hiding. I said, that cat from Wilmington, 0:15:03.996 --> 0:15:06.356 Delaware living in Vermont. Man, I said, dude, Nick, it's 0:15:06.396 --> 0:15:08.676 cold up there. Man, I mean, that's a cold place. Bro. 0:15:10.316 --> 0:15:13.236 So they put on their winter coats and headed north. 0:15:16.796 --> 0:15:19.876 It was now December of two thousand and four. It 0:15:19.916 --> 0:15:22.396 had been about a month since they first heard the rumor, 0:15:23.036 --> 0:15:26.476 and now here they were in the car, driving into 0:15:26.516 --> 0:15:30.196 the chill of a Vermont winter. Temperature was hovering around 0:15:30.236 --> 0:15:33.796 freezing that night, and as they sped along through the 0:15:33.836 --> 0:15:38.516 green mountains, past the darkened forests of evergreens, they had 0:15:38.636 --> 0:15:42.996 no idea what to expect, Like, what are you hoping 0:15:43.036 --> 0:15:43.636 to find out? 0:15:44.156 --> 0:15:48.556 Hey? At this point, we're like, man, whatever he's got, 0:15:48.876 --> 0:15:51.156 he's got to give us something, man, because we're again, 0:15:51.236 --> 0:15:54.196 we're spinning our wheels. It felt like, man, if this 0:15:54.236 --> 0:15:56.356 has come through, I think, honestly, I think we're. 0:15:56.236 --> 0:16:00.916 Done Terry recalls on that drive up to Vermont, they 0:16:00.996 --> 0:16:04.316 talked a lot about why they couldn't or shouldn't give 0:16:04.396 --> 0:16:05.116 up on the case. 0:16:05.876 --> 0:16:08.956 So we had great discussions, and that's when I really 0:16:09.116 --> 0:16:10.996 we both realized, wow, wait a minute, this is not 0:16:11.036 --> 0:16:13.036 an accident that he and I are team together. This 0:16:13.156 --> 0:16:16.156 was like, literally, we didn't do this, we couldn't plan. 0:16:16.156 --> 0:16:20.276 This, and there was a reason for this feeling. Turns 0:16:20.276 --> 0:16:23.676 out there was a strange symmetry to their lives that 0:16:23.796 --> 0:16:27.876 dated back before they ever met. So we're going to 0:16:28.036 --> 0:16:30.676 leave Scott and Terry in the car heading up to 0:16:30.756 --> 0:16:39.956 Vermont and turn back the clock. For Scott, it all 0:16:39.996 --> 0:16:42.876 started when he graduated high school. He wanted to be 0:16:42.916 --> 0:16:46.316 a cop, but by his own estimation at the time, 0:16:46.876 --> 0:16:50.316 he was too small, too skinny. He weighed just ninety 0:16:50.316 --> 0:16:54.636 three pounds, so instead he opted to become a priest. 0:16:55.676 --> 0:16:58.156 He was just seventeen years old when he decided to 0:16:58.236 --> 0:17:01.756 join the seminary, but right away when he put on 0:17:01.756 --> 0:17:06.436 that priest's color, it was transformative, both for him and 0:17:06.556 --> 0:17:08.956 also for the way that other people looked at him. 0:17:09.716 --> 0:17:12.436 I would be sitting in a pew, maybe praying in 0:17:12.516 --> 0:17:16.156 a church. Somebody would come by and start confessing, and 0:17:16.636 --> 0:17:18.756 people just start pouring their souls out to me. 0:17:20.156 --> 0:17:23.396 In these moments, Scott was learning how to listen, how 0:17:23.396 --> 0:17:27.076 to suspend judgment, how to be patient as people grappled 0:17:27.076 --> 0:17:31.516 with some burdensome secret, inching their way towards the precipice 0:17:31.516 --> 0:17:35.396 of truth. He spent five years training to become a priest, 0:17:36.196 --> 0:17:40.156 but dreams are stubborn things, and his didn't go away. 0:17:41.276 --> 0:17:44.156 He left the seminary to become a cop and then 0:17:44.196 --> 0:17:45.156 an FBI agent. 0:17:46.116 --> 0:17:48.756 It is harder to leave than it is to go in. 0:17:48.796 --> 0:17:51.836 And that's ultimately because I think, now you have ventured 0:17:51.876 --> 0:17:55.516 this relationship with God, and now you're afraid of pissing 0:17:55.556 --> 0:17:55.956 him off. 0:17:56.716 --> 0:18:00.396 For Scott, this shifting careers seemed like a natural progression 0:18:01.596 --> 0:18:05.596 for him. The seminary prepared him for this work, prepared 0:18:05.676 --> 0:18:08.716 him to listen and see his way through a messy 0:18:08.756 --> 0:18:12.916 world fraught with moral dilemmas. But when he'd tell people 0:18:13.116 --> 0:18:17.116 about his past, how he'd almost become a priest, they're like, oh, 0:18:17.276 --> 0:18:21.716 my gosh, I can never imagine. The two are totally 0:18:21.716 --> 0:18:25.196 opposed to each other. And I never understood that. But 0:18:25.276 --> 0:18:29.956 there was at least one person who got it completely Terry. 0:18:30.796 --> 0:18:34.276 I went to college at a very small Bible College 0:18:34.876 --> 0:18:36.516 and was preparing for ministry. 0:18:37.356 --> 0:18:40.436 From a young age. Terry felt destined for the ministry, 0:18:41.116 --> 0:18:43.836 but later on, when he was in Bible College, he 0:18:43.876 --> 0:18:48.076 had second thoughts. As graduation approached, a friend asked him, 0:18:48.636 --> 0:18:52.396 you ever consider becoming a cop. The short answer was no. 0:18:52.956 --> 0:18:56.716 But on a whim, Terry applied and met with a recruiter. 0:18:57.236 --> 0:19:00.316 And this guy, he was a hardcore dude. I mean 0:19:00.316 --> 0:19:03.356 he looked at me. I was back then, I was skinny. 0:19:04.396 --> 0:19:06.196 He looked at me and said, you're from where and 0:19:06.236 --> 0:19:09.276 you want to do what You're from Bible College, and 0:19:09.356 --> 0:19:11.796 you have any idea what you're applying for, what you're 0:19:11.796 --> 0:19:14.236 trying to do. I said, no, sir, I have no idea. 0:19:15.436 --> 0:19:18.556 Terry was undeterred. He became a cop and then an 0:19:18.556 --> 0:19:22.956 agent with the ATF. And this was not a consolation 0:19:23.156 --> 0:19:26.716 job for Terry. He's very clear about this. He feels 0:19:26.756 --> 0:19:29.796 that God had a purpose for him in law enforcement. 0:19:30.716 --> 0:19:33.916 And that's the thing you gotta understand about both Terry 0:19:33.996 --> 0:19:36.476 and Scott. These are not men who look at the 0:19:36.516 --> 0:19:40.476 world and see coincidences. What they see is much closer 0:19:40.516 --> 0:19:45.316 to fate or God's will, and when they became partners, 0:19:45.876 --> 0:19:48.556 it all seemed meant to be. Here were two guys 0:19:48.596 --> 0:19:52.076 who early on looked too skinny and earnest to be cops, 0:19:52.516 --> 0:19:55.396 guys who intended to become men of God. Different in 0:19:55.436 --> 0:19:58.516 their own ways. Terry grew up in a gritty river 0:19:58.596 --> 0:20:02.316 town in Pennsylvania, and he kind of feels like a dude. 0:20:02.436 --> 0:20:05.236 You'd play around a mini golf with grab a Burger, 0:20:05.436 --> 0:20:09.196 have a laugh, and then realize only belatedly that they 0:20:09.276 --> 0:20:13.476 told him more than you intended to. Scott, Well, he's 0:20:13.516 --> 0:20:17.196 more formal. He's from Connecticut. Are really Yankee? A man 0:20:17.236 --> 0:20:21.516 who chooses his words carefully, A patient priest who knows 0:20:21.556 --> 0:20:24.956 how to nurse a long pregnant pause. The two of 0:20:24.956 --> 0:20:29.596 them worked well together, complimented one another, the Pennsylvania pastor 0:20:30.076 --> 0:20:37.036 and the New England priest, and I've been calling them partners, 0:20:37.076 --> 0:20:40.956 but they only ever worked together on this one investigation. 0:20:41.716 --> 0:20:45.876 It was an unusual collaboration between the FBI and the ATF, 0:20:46.396 --> 0:20:49.076 and they didn't choose one another. They were kind of 0:20:49.116 --> 0:20:52.956 paired randomly, though neither of them would say it was random. 0:20:53.396 --> 0:20:55.156 You know, as we started realizing that wait a minute, 0:20:55.156 --> 0:20:58.676 we're we're on a mission from God. 0:20:58.716 --> 0:21:03.196 But yep, just like the Blues Brothers. 0:21:03.796 --> 0:21:05.636 We didn't really say that, I'm just making it up, 0:21:05.636 --> 0:21:08.556 but that was the feeling. Well hey no, but it 0:21:08.596 --> 0:21:11.236 was like, no joke, like this is a real deal. 0:21:11.956 --> 0:21:14.396 It's almost like we're walking through almost like a dream, 0:21:14.436 --> 0:21:15.676 like what is going on here? 0:21:17.156 --> 0:21:20.476 So yeah, even though all they had was a rumor 0:21:20.796 --> 0:21:24.516 of a long forgotten crime that might not have even happened, 0:21:25.436 --> 0:21:29.316 these two almost ministers, the God Squad as it were, 0:21:29.996 --> 0:21:33.316 still felt certain that they were here in this car 0:21:33.556 --> 0:21:37.476 heading north into Vermont for a reason, and they were 0:21:37.516 --> 0:21:42.476 convinced that something important was waiting for them. That's when 0:21:42.516 --> 0:22:09.916 we get back. Both Scott and Terry had this hunch 0:22:10.236 --> 0:22:13.676 that there was a reason Craig, the alleged accomplice, was 0:22:13.836 --> 0:22:17.676 up in Vermont, up in the mountains, that he was hiding. 0:22:18.556 --> 0:22:22.956 But if so, who is he hiding from and why? 0:22:24.036 --> 0:22:26.436 In any case, they knew they had to be careful. 0:22:26.996 --> 0:22:30.196 They'd learned from police reports that in the past Craig 0:22:30.276 --> 0:22:33.516 had helped Tom clean and store a whole arsenal of weapons. 0:22:34.276 --> 0:22:37.116 Why'd he do this? Well, Tom had a felony on 0:22:37.156 --> 0:22:40.116 his record, which meant he wasn't supposed to have any guns, 0:22:40.516 --> 0:22:44.356 so his buddy Craig helped him out. This suggested two 0:22:44.476 --> 0:22:48.316 things to the agents. One Craig was loyal he ended 0:22:48.396 --> 0:22:52.116 up going to prison for storing those weapons, and two, 0:22:52.356 --> 0:22:56.156 Craig was probably handy with a gun. The God Squad 0:22:56.236 --> 0:22:59.516 was still hatching their plan as they rolled into town. 0:23:03.716 --> 0:23:08.356 It was late. I feel like we were closing in 0:23:08.396 --> 0:23:11.356 on midnight, and we didn't want to put it off. 0:23:12.156 --> 0:23:14.556 We were just so full of energy. 0:23:16.036 --> 0:23:19.236 It was late for a door knock, very late, but 0:23:19.276 --> 0:23:23.956 their excitement eclips their caution, so instead of waiting until morning, 0:23:24.556 --> 0:23:27.716 they drove right to his house. Their plan was to 0:23:27.756 --> 0:23:31.436 say hello, introduce themselves, and arrange to have a formal 0:23:31.516 --> 0:23:34.716 sit down the following day. 0:23:34.756 --> 0:23:39.036 And when we finally found where he lives, he lives 0:23:39.036 --> 0:23:40.996 literally on top of like if it's on a mountain, 0:23:40.996 --> 0:23:43.076 it's a very very tall hill. It's very tall and 0:23:43.156 --> 0:23:43.636 very steep. 0:23:44.156 --> 0:23:50.156 I remember being very very dark, like I don't think 0:23:50.196 --> 0:23:53.116 I could see my hand in front of me, And 0:23:53.236 --> 0:23:56.516 as soon as we got out of our cars, I 0:23:56.556 --> 0:23:59.636 think we got out a few feet and then floodlights. 0:24:00.196 --> 0:24:03.036 I just remember floodlights like we were in a stadium, 0:24:04.196 --> 0:24:05.836 just shined upon us. 0:24:07.276 --> 0:24:10.596 I mean it was like bright as he had hooked 0:24:10.636 --> 0:24:14.276 up these spotlights and trees illuminating the whole area, and 0:24:14.316 --> 0:24:16.356 we can see his house dimly up the top of 0:24:16.396 --> 0:24:18.396 the hill. I think I may have made a comment 0:24:18.436 --> 0:24:21.476 to Scott. I said, man, if he had any ill intent, 0:24:21.516 --> 0:24:22.716 he we'd be dead men right now. 0:24:23.516 --> 0:24:29.796 That told me a lot that Wow, you know what 0:24:29.996 --> 0:24:33.436 is inside this person that he has this going on 0:24:34.476 --> 0:24:37.916 where he wants to be made well aware of anybody arriving. 0:24:39.356 --> 0:24:42.796 I'm thinking, man, he does not. He doesn't want to 0:24:42.796 --> 0:24:48.916 be found. 0:24:48.956 --> 0:24:52.636 Scott and Terry start trudging up the icy, snow covered hill. 0:24:53.316 --> 0:24:57.116 They can hear dogs barking from within the house. Eventually 0:24:57.276 --> 0:25:00.876 they get up to the front porch and Craig walks out. 0:25:01.076 --> 0:25:04.876 He's medium height and stocky, with a closely cropped haircut. 0:25:05.996 --> 0:25:06.996 Scott calls out to. 0:25:06.996 --> 0:25:10.076 Him, Craig Peterson, you don't know us, but we're here. 0:25:10.596 --> 0:25:13.156 I'm going to talk to you. Federal agents. Can we 0:25:13.316 --> 0:25:17.036 approach you? Can we come up to your house and 0:25:18.436 --> 0:25:26.116 within ten seconds, just a very friendly, inviting demeanor, come 0:25:26.116 --> 0:25:29.236 on up and come into my house is a sigh 0:25:29.236 --> 0:25:31.876 of relief of that, but definitely a side of release. 0:25:31.916 --> 0:25:36.356 First and foremost, we've achieved our first goal is finding him, 0:25:37.076 --> 0:25:41.436 achieved our second goal of being able to be face 0:25:41.516 --> 0:25:45.156 to face with him. Our third goal was to get 0:25:45.236 --> 0:25:49.076 him to come and speak with us at a different location. 0:25:49.156 --> 0:25:51.036 We weren't going to talk to him at his house. 0:25:51.756 --> 0:25:55.196 Craig invites them inside, he introduces them to his fiance. 0:25:55.956 --> 0:25:59.876 It's all very normal and Craig he seems unfazed. 0:26:00.476 --> 0:26:04.796 He was very relaxed, very gracious. I mean, just almost 0:26:04.836 --> 0:26:06.516 opposite of what I was expecting. 0:26:07.396 --> 0:26:09.996 Scott and Terry explained that they just have a few 0:26:10.076 --> 0:26:12.876 questions for him about an old matter from the past. 0:26:13.516 --> 0:26:16.676 They keep it deliberately vague, and they ask if he'd 0:26:16.676 --> 0:26:19.116 be willing to meet with them the following day down 0:26:19.156 --> 0:26:21.996 at the barracks where the Vermont State Police are stationed. 0:26:22.596 --> 0:26:26.276 Craig's like, sure, I'll meet you tomorrow after I'm done 0:26:26.276 --> 0:26:30.676 with work. All the while, Terry is studying both Craig 0:26:30.876 --> 0:26:34.156 and his fiance, trying to get a read on them. 0:26:34.436 --> 0:26:37.996 His fiance was way more concerned than he was, Like 0:26:38.036 --> 0:26:40.756 she was like, what's going on, Like what's this about 0:26:40.876 --> 0:26:43.436 he's not stressed at all, Like there's no stress with 0:26:43.476 --> 0:26:46.156 this dat like there's nothing. I'm like, this is unbelievable. 0:26:47.636 --> 0:26:49.876 The next day, Scott and Terry Aer down at the 0:26:49.876 --> 0:26:53.356