Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 3: Our colleague Dole is on adventures, but will be returning soon.
Speaker 4: They call me Ben.
Speaker 3: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, Mission
Speaker 3: control decand most importantly, you are you. You are here that
Speaker 3: makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3: Tonight we're just talking about this off air with Paul.
Speaker 2: Matt.
Speaker 3: Tonight, we are returning to an unfortunately still unfolding story
Speaker 3: that recently rocked America and indeed the world. It's a
Speaker 3: story we've been exploring for years at this point, starting
Speaker 3: back in twenty nineteen when we asked, who is this
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein character? Why does it seem he broke the
Speaker 3: law and got away? It's a question that has some
Speaker 3: added context now, as we all know, Jeffrey Epstein has
Speaker 3: passed away, and this evening we are returning with a
Speaker 3: follow up.
Speaker 4: Matt.
Speaker 3: It's been a long time in coming, and I think
Speaker 3: maybe we start off by telling everybody tuning in now,
Speaker 3: please be aware this may not be appropriate for all audiences.
Speaker 2: Most definitely not appropriate for all audiences. We covered him
Speaker 2: for the first time in January of twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 2: then he was He died on August tenth, twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: which is pretty crazy, less than a year away from
Speaker 2: his death when we started talking about him again. This
Speaker 2: is a weird update because Ben, I don't know about you.
Speaker 2: I didn't know how much targeted advertising was going to
Speaker 2: play into this episode about Epstein.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and well, without further ado, let's get into it,
Speaker 3: explore that and everything else. Here are the facts. Who
Speaker 3: was Epstein? We know this, longtime listeners, you know this.
Speaker 3: For much of his career, Jeffrey Epstein officially was a financier,
Speaker 3: a former teacher turned money guy. There is nothing inherently
Speaker 3: wrong with that until you start looking into the increasingly
Speaker 3: bizarre circumstances of his rise to financial power. Right he
Speaker 3: was teaching at this uber posh private school called the
Speaker 3: Dalton School without a college degree. He did attend college briefly,
Speaker 3: he dropped out. And then there's even The more you dig,
Speaker 3: the more weird stuff you find. Some of it kind
Speaker 3: of tenuous, but a lot of it in culmination, it
Speaker 3: makes you think, like were in our past episodes. I
Speaker 3: believe we talked a little bit about the Donald Barr connection,
Speaker 3: which is its own kind of bag of badgers. Remember that,
Speaker 3: the weird sci fi author.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was very strange. Yeah, I remember more of
Speaker 2: the financial connections that seemed to just come out of nowhere.
Speaker 2: Bear Stearns is a company that a lot of people
Speaker 2: were talking about a long, long time ago, now in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, but they were a major investment investment
Speaker 2: bank firm. I guess you would call it. Maybe they
Speaker 2: are one of these organizations that went down during the
Speaker 2: giant financial collapse that occurred in well, the targeted financial
Speaker 2: collapse in the investment sector that happened in two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight and nine, I guess. But they were a
Speaker 2: massive player, and Jeffrey Epstein got in very good with
Speaker 2: that whole crowd.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's somewhat separate, but it's distinct from, but
Speaker 3: somehow related to his connections with folks like Leslie Wexner.
Speaker 3: You're absolutely right. After he left the Dalton School or
Speaker 3: was fired, let go, however you want to put it,
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy six. He did snaggage at bear Stearns,
Speaker 3: multiple jobs. He worked in various roles in the organization,
Speaker 3: and his bosses always noticed that he had a particular
Speaker 3: talent for what we would call relationship management in this context,
Speaker 3: that means befriending and hobnobbing with VIPs with very wealthy
Speaker 3: clients bear Sterns and it's nineteen eighty one when he
Speaker 3: leaves bear Stearns and begins his own financial company. He
Speaker 3: does several of these. They go through a number of
Speaker 3: different names. Check out our past episodes. His firms always
Speaker 3: had throughout all the iterations, they always have one thing
Speaker 3: in common. They cultivated, or you could even say targeted,
Speaker 3: incredibly powerful and influential clients. Again, nothing inherently weird or
Speaker 3: wrong about that, because if you have ever worked in investment,
Speaker 3: you know that the whales are the folks you seek, right,
Speaker 3: you want those big VIP accounts.
Speaker 2: Well, and he was aided quite a bit by his
Speaker 2: partner in both business and crime, Gillaane Maxwell, who was
Speaker 2: a socialite in her own right, but she was a
Speaker 2: big player within the social spheres all across the United
Speaker 2: States and across the globe. And you know, cultivating these
Speaker 2: kinds of clientele. I have no doubt that she played
Speaker 2: a large role in that.
Speaker 3: And we brought receipts. You can hear them in our
Speaker 3: previous series, which was we have a three part episode
Speaker 3: or we have a three part series on Epstein leading
Speaker 3: up to his untimely demise or his timely demise, depending
Speaker 3: on who you ask. Long story short, his career seemed
Speaker 3: increasingly less focused on the day to day business of
Speaker 3: growing money, because that's what a financial company is. Basically,
Speaker 3: it's like a money farmer, and his career seemed more
Speaker 3: and more focused on things that we could call blackmail
Speaker 3: and things that are crimes, like sexual abuse and human trafficking.
Speaker 3: He conspired to do these things. These are true conspiracies.
Speaker 3: History would later prove this was also an open secret
Speaker 3: in certain circles. You can see any number of photographs, videos,
Speaker 3: documentation proving he was linked to some of the most
Speaker 3: powerful people in the Western world. Not the same thing
Speaker 3: as saying they committed similar crimes, but he definitely was
Speaker 3: hanging out with financiers, business tycoons, celebrities, more than one
Speaker 3: US president, and it seemed set to continue until I
Speaker 3: think two thousand and five, police in Florida got a
Speaker 3: report from a local parent that said, hey, this Jeffrey
Speaker 3: Epstein guy living in Palm Beach sexually abused our fourteen
Speaker 3: year old daughter tracts and the facade began to show.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and let's get into that in just a
Speaker 2: moment then, But we just we have to point out
Speaker 2: that the first report of Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell to
Speaker 2: the FBI was in nineteen ninety six by Maria Farmer
Speaker 2: regarding herself and her sixteen year old sister. Because Maria
Speaker 2: Farmer reached out and told them, hey, you know, this
Speaker 2: person who's kind of my boss, I guess, and his
Speaker 2: friend Gallaine just like sexually abused me and my sister,
Speaker 2: my sixteen year old sister. And you know, at least
Speaker 2: according to her story, and according to what followed after that,
Speaker 2: the FBI kind of put it away and it was
Speaker 2: like allegations and nothing else.
Speaker 3: And the two thousand and five accusations actually lead to something.
Speaker 3: And for a lot of people, I think it's safe
Speaker 3: to say at this point, throughout the nineties and even
Speaker 3: unto the two thousand and five report, most folks had
Speaker 3: not heard of Jeffrey Epstein, not really, It was just
Speaker 3: another one of the names you hear bandied about with,
Speaker 3: you know, like the group terms of the wealthy, and
Speaker 3: most people probably hadn't heard of him, because you know,
Speaker 3: most people are not wealthy. But this investigation again, I
Speaker 3: like that you pointing out the nineteen nineties stuff that
Speaker 3: got buried, because this investigation balloons and people are becoming
Speaker 3: increasingly convinced Epstein hadn't abused just one child. A later
Speaker 3: federal investigation will find credible allegations of abuse related to
Speaker 3: at least thirty six different girls, teens and minors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're thinly twelve years old, fourteen years old, sixteen
Speaker 2: years old.
Speaker 3: Messed up, unclean stuff. And fast forward to two thousand
Speaker 3: and eight. Epstein does get convicted in the state of Florida,
Speaker 3: but he strikes a cartoonish sweetheart plea deal he pleads
Speaker 3: guilty to. We know there are problematic words here, but
Speaker 3: the charges he played guilty to are procuring a child
Speaker 3: for prostitution and to soliciting a prostitute. He is sentenced
Speaker 3: to thirteen months in custody, but he's also on the
Speaker 3: most generous work release program in.
Speaker 4: US history.
Speaker 3: Maybe I remember we were all baffled. We didn't believe
Speaker 3: it at first. He could essentially, during these thirteen months,
Speaker 3: do whatever he wanted. He had an office he went
Speaker 3: to every day, he could go meet with clients, and
Speaker 3: he still had scats of clients, and he was just
Speaker 3: kind of a freeman other than the fact that he
Speaker 3: couldn't leave the US borders.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely go back to the twenty nineteen episode, the
Speaker 2: original one, just to go into the full detail of
Speaker 2: all that stuff. He was definitely a free person at
Speaker 2: that time. And just to add a little more context
Speaker 2: here on the Galaine Maxwell thing, from the nineties up
Speaker 2: until two thousand and eight there or two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: I guess she was at least according to Maria Farmer
Speaker 2: and others, she would drive around in a limousine or
Speaker 2: a you know, a chartered vehicle basically that someone else
Speaker 2: is driving around in, and she would stop at businesses,
Speaker 2: at parks, at schools, and she would get out of
Speaker 2: the vehicle, write down her phone number and hand it
Speaker 2: to a teenager, a teenage girl, and say contact me,
Speaker 2: basically as the person grooming these people who then end
Speaker 2: up at Jeffrey Epstein's one of his palatial estates, usually
Speaker 2: at least in this case, the one in New York.
Speaker 3: Right, So he's operating, He's got an island that he
Speaker 3: operates from, has got a location New York as well
Speaker 3: as a location in Palm Beach, Florida. You can learn
Speaker 3: more in depth about Gallaine Maxwell in our Gallaiine Maxwell update,
Speaker 3: which is also out there and could also use use
Speaker 3: a return in twenty twenty four or the fasting.
Speaker 2: Is anybody skeptical about the criminal nature of these.
Speaker 3: Two Yeah, just in case you have questions, We have
Speaker 3: questions too, some of which particularly pertain to Galaane's father,
Speaker 3: Robert Maxwell. Whole different bag badgers, possibly related the federal government.
Speaker 3: Federal authorities again arrest Jeffrey Epstein on July sixth, twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: This time his charges his trafficking charges are interstate and scope.
Speaker 3: He is charged with trafficking minors, specifically for sex in
Speaker 3: both Florida and New York. August of the same year,
Speaker 3: he dies in prison under circumstances that even the most
Speaker 3: zealous of skeptics can only describe as murky. The official
Speaker 3: cause suicide by Hanking yep.
Speaker 2: And we have a whole episode on that too, by
Speaker 2: the way, too, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Check out that one is epstein suicide and the autopsy war.
Speaker 3: It's look the suicide conclusion, which was reached by the
Speaker 3: medical examiner of the time. It's a conclusion a lot
Speaker 3: of people still don't accept today, like the official story
Speaker 3: of what happened at JFK. Right, Epstein's own lawyers thought
Speaker 3: it was bs and then just a year later, less
Speaker 3: than a year later, actually Gallin Maxwell is arrested in
Speaker 3: July of twenty twenty, charged and convicted as similar crimes.
Speaker 3: She is in prison in tallahassee tonight as we record.
Speaker 2: That is correct. The big difference for me between the
Speaker 2: JFK assassination and you know, the death of Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 2: is that we have film of JFK's assassination. We have
Speaker 2: a ton of witnesses.
Speaker 4: Whose cameras were working.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and with Epstein the cameras were not working,
Speaker 2: and we have really zero witnesses.
Speaker 3: But what about the security guards, he might be asking, Well, again,
Speaker 3: check out the episode. In the wake of this, I
Speaker 3: think we can all agree this guy's a villain, right sure.
Speaker 3: In the wake of his passing, further investigations didn't really
Speaker 3: answer a ton of questions. They led to more questions,
Speaker 3: and even now twenty twenty four, in the years after
Speaker 3: his death, the public continues to wonder did he have
Speaker 3: dirt on people? If so, whom will we ever learn
Speaker 3: why he spent so much time engaging in human trafficking.
Speaker 3: He didn't need the money at this point, right, he
Speaker 3: was a proven multimillionaire. If he was indeed trafficking underage
Speaker 3: victims to powerful patrons, what did he want in exchange
Speaker 3: for these services? Who exactly was in his proverbial little
Speaker 3: black book. We're going to pause for a word from
Speaker 3: our sponsor. We'll dive in.
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 3: I don't know man's It's the mother of all conspiracy tropes, right,
Speaker 3: the idea that there's this hidden cabal of people who
Speaker 3: actually run the world and they can do whatever they want,
Speaker 3: and they want to do messed up things.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a not so hidden cabal of a small
Speaker 2: number of people that can do whatever the heck they
Speaker 2: want pretty much because they have that superpower that you've
Speaker 2: pointed out in the past, been a craft ton of money,
Speaker 2: and they really can fly wherever they want, like literally
Speaker 2: travel wherever they want. Whenever they want. They can buy
Speaker 2: property probably wherever they want. They can do whatever they
Speaker 2: want on that private property unless somebody else finds out,
Speaker 2: and you know, if it's illegal, finds out and tries
Speaker 2: to prosecute them. But then they've got that superpower still,
Speaker 2: so they can fight pretty much anything in court or
Speaker 2: bribe officials. So it is this weird thing where it's
Speaker 2: the question is are they working together on something? And
Speaker 2: that's why this is such an interesting story because maybe
Speaker 2: there was somebody getting dirt on individuals who had these
Speaker 2: superpowers and were maybe taking part in things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The main way you get in trouble in this
Speaker 3: strata of society is by doing something bad to your
Speaker 3: socioeconomic peers, right, Yeah, because Bernie never made off with
Speaker 3: the money. Really, he got popped because he wasn't stealing
Speaker 3: from poor people, let's be honest. Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 3: the global cabal conspiracy theories are hogwashed. They can be disproven.
Speaker 3: But this one, like you said, it's different because there
Speaker 3: are photographs before the Palm Beach authorities and before the
Speaker 3: nineteen nineties investigation, before those were quote unquote watched, we
Speaker 3: know there were there was some sort of system it
Speaker 3: appeared for collecting and storing video. What was on that video?
Speaker 3: We the public still don't know, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3: We also have to be careful here because, yes, organized
Speaker 3: abuse of children is red meat to certain factions of
Speaker 3: conspiracy lore. You know, like it's it's something you hear
Speaker 3: all about all the time. QAnon is just one recent example.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when it comes to the video, Ben, the stuff
Speaker 2: I've seen often goes back to someone named Sarah Ransom,
Speaker 2: who is someone who you know was trafficked by Epstein
Speaker 2: and Galine Maxwell. And she has stated, she stated in
Speaker 2: emails quite a while ago that she has physically seen
Speaker 2: videos of recordings made by Epstein made. The recordings are
Speaker 2: like made maybe for Epstein or i Epstein, of underaged,
Speaker 2: unnamed women having sex with people like Bill Clinton, Prince
Speaker 2: Andrew and Richard Branson. That's according to the emails from
Speaker 2: Sarah Ransom. But it's a weird situation. She spoke at
Speaker 2: one point with Good Morning Britain and I'm just a
Speaker 2: quick quote here quote It's no secret that everything was recorded.
Speaker 2: I have also seen recordings in his office. There are
Speaker 2: videos that exist. The people that know they exist. I'm
Speaker 2: sure they're very frightened of them being released. That's her quote,
Speaker 2: but she's also kind of gone back on that a
Speaker 2: little bit on some of those statements. So it's kind
Speaker 2: of hard to know if it's almost like a posturing
Speaker 2: or a threatening kind of thing, like there might be
Speaker 2: videos and I'm going to come out publicly and say this,
Speaker 2: or if there are actually physical videos that exist.
Speaker 3: Which also brought to mind the question of whether or
Speaker 3: not there was a posthumous insurance policy, right, a dead
Speaker 3: hand strategy on Epstein's part, such that people would preserve
Speaker 3: his life knowing that if he passed away, these things,
Speaker 3: if they exist, would be released. It turns out whether
Speaker 3: or not that was true, there has to this date
Speaker 3: been no publicly confirmed evidence collected by Epstein of you know,
Speaker 3: his powerful associates abusing children.
Speaker 2: On video, well, at least that we know of, because the.
Speaker 3: Public, the public haven't, That's what I'm saying, publicly.
Speaker 2: Confirmed, because investigators on that in that twenty nineteen raid
Speaker 2: where they went to his townhouse in Manhattan, they allegedly
Speaker 2: found quote a cache of child sexual abuse material. Right,
Speaker 2: So the question is does that cash and that material
Speaker 2: include some of these powerful, wealthy people, and it is
Speaker 2: it will never be released like that because of what
Speaker 2: it also contains, which is child sexual abuse. But then
Speaker 2: what do you do I guess as an authority, what
Speaker 2: do you do with that stuff? Do you immediately start
Speaker 2: charging the fifty or however many people adults probably that
Speaker 2: are on the videos there, or if there are even
Speaker 2: adults included in the videos, It's just it becomes a
Speaker 2: messed up situation that again we don't know. We don't
Speaker 2: have enough information as people talking about this publicly.
Speaker 3: Look at the earlier initial reports too. I want to
Speaker 3: shout out the Miami Herald yet again for their excellent
Speaker 3: reporting which I mentioned previous episodes. In the Palm Beach arrest.
Speaker 3: We know from the initial reports there that they they
Speaker 3: said they found video recording equipment, right, but what does
Speaker 3: that mean? You know what exactly happened to that stuff?
Speaker 3: Those answers still aren't out there. We know they're also
Speaker 3: flight logs right of people flying on Epstein's private aircraft.
Speaker 3: We know there is document of him hanging out with
Speaker 3: people sometimes just at swank New York parties, right, Because
Speaker 3: he's big in the world of philanthropy, as was his
Speaker 3: partner gillaying. We also have these statements of trafficking survivors,
Speaker 3: multiple trafficking survivors who are saying, yes, this happened. They
Speaker 3: have named names, they have described things in as specific
Speaker 3: detail as possible.
Speaker 2: And now we have location tracking data as of several
Speaker 2: weeks ago since today's date, like recording this episode. And
Speaker 2: we we'll get into that a little bit later. But
Speaker 2: there is a phone tracking data from targeted advertising that
Speaker 2: it's been released, and Wired has a whole piece on
Speaker 2: it where there are a ton of individual cellular phones
Speaker 2: that were tracked on that island. Quote I'm sorry to
Speaker 2: say this, but quote Pedophile Island or Epstein Island or
Speaker 2: Epstein Island. Yet there are a ton of these what
Speaker 2: is it, Little Saint James Island and it then this
Speaker 2: location data tracks from whatever was going on on the island,
Speaker 2: and then it goes backwards and forwards from the time
Speaker 2: that it was on the island, and it's tracked two
Speaker 2: mansions all over the place to twenty six different states
Speaker 2: in the United States, And well, I guess there's something
Speaker 2: to point out here. But the only reason why it's
Speaker 2: not also tracked to Europe and other countries is because
Speaker 2: of the privacy laws that exist in many other countries,
Speaker 2: but in the US it's like, hey, you got location data,
Speaker 2: let's sell that stuff.
Speaker 3: And you know, the question haunted people in the wake
Speaker 3: of Epstein's death, as the court cases and the investigations
Speaker 3: still whilend their way through various processes. The question was this,
Speaker 3: if these powerful people, many of whom still hold positions
Speaker 3: of enormous influence, if any of them are actual child abusers,
Speaker 3: does the public not have a right to know? I
Speaker 3: mean the accusations, though if true, they would be fundamentally explosive.
Speaker 3: This is not a political right versus political left thing either,
Speaker 3: because we said more than one US president was messing
Speaker 3: with Epstein. Yeah, Trump and Bill Clinton famously not on
Speaker 3: the same side of most issues, but they were cool
Speaker 3: with this guy at one point or another. And then,
Speaker 3: of course, there was the member of the British royal family,
Speaker 3: Prince Andrew, who apparently does not sweat, or allegedly did
Speaker 3: not sweat at the time due to his alleged medical condition.
Speaker 3: The public was out moneyed, but not outnumbered. They demanded
Speaker 3: more information, and that's where we get to Tonight's like
Speaker 3: the beginning of tonight's big update. It was December of
Speaker 3: last year, twenty twenty three, when US Feral District Court
Speaker 3: Judge Loretta A. Presca ordered the public disclosure of the
Speaker 3: identities of more than one hundred and fifty people mentioned
Speaker 3: in this just library's worth or novel's worth, excuse me
Speaker 3: of court documents related to Epstein. It was mind blowing, man,
Speaker 3: because it was January third of this year when nine
Speaker 3: hundred pages of mostly unredacted documents got released on a Wednesday.
Speaker 3: The next day a second batch of documents is released.
Speaker 3: That's January fourth. January fifth, a third tranch of documents
Speaker 3: comes out, and there's still more in the days that follow.
Speaker 3: There are like one hundred and eighty four people listed
Speaker 3: as Jay Does in this starting John Doe.
Speaker 4: That stands for.
Speaker 3: A small number. Of these names are the names of
Speaker 3: minors or victims of trafficking an assault, and in her ruling,
Speaker 3: Judge Presca said, we're not going to release the names
Speaker 3: of those child victims.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good thing. Did they actually release the
Speaker 2: full list like it actually came out?
Speaker 3: They've released a lot of stuff, But the problem is
Speaker 3: we don't know if that's the full list. What we're
Speaker 3: seeing is they've released the names of people who have
Speaker 3: been mentioned in some way in the court proceedings and
Speaker 3: in the documentation that informs those proceedings. But as far
Speaker 3: as like a legendary little black book similar to you know,
Speaker 3: Heidi Flies or something, they're not going to find a
Speaker 3: copy of something like that, not in the public sphere.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it is weird to imagine that finding the
Speaker 2: line between his business dealings, right, that may actually be
Speaker 2: above board with an individual, right or not above board,
Speaker 2: but may not have anything to do with this. What
Speaker 2: if that person's name is inside that black book because
Speaker 2: of a business thing or whatever. Just we're talking about
Speaker 2: his like rolodex maybe or his whatever it is. Maybe
Speaker 2: that one innocent there's one or you know, one hundred
Speaker 2: innocent people completely not touching any of the gnarly stuff
Speaker 2: that he did. But then there's other people in there
Speaker 2: that were and and I think proving that is such
Speaker 2: a difficult thing, especially when you've got witness statements as
Speaker 2: some of your primary documentation, right, some of your primary evidence.
Speaker 2: Having to having to prove it proving that Prince Andrew,
Speaker 2: a prince, a royal person, did these things. It's a
Speaker 2: tall milkshake. I think again, when it comes to the
Speaker 2: superpowers that somebody like a Prince Andrew has when it
Speaker 2: comes to money and influence and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, folks, think of it this way.
Speaker 3: Let's say you are a pretty successful drug dealer, right,
Speaker 3: Let's see your street level drug dealer. Uh, you that
Speaker 3: as your primary means of income. A lot of the
Speaker 3: folks that you have on one of your phones are
Speaker 3: going to be affiliated with your primary vocation. But then
Speaker 3: an equal, if not greater number of people, depending on
Speaker 3: how you set up your burners, they're just going to
Speaker 3: be folks, you know, like just your friends from college
Speaker 3: or your family members and stuff like that. So you
Speaker 3: can't look at a list like this and immediately make
Speaker 3: the leap to saying that all these folks are guilty
Speaker 3: by association. In fact, guilt by association is a huge
Speaker 3: fallacy that the court systems try to avoid. So, even
Speaker 3: though it is very tempting, I think to hear about
Speaker 3: a famous person on one day's list and say, well,
Speaker 3: I already didn't like the guy, so I know he's guilty.
Speaker 3: Even though that is tempting, that's not how the law
Speaker 3: does or should work.
Speaker 2: Agreed, well, and think about the public perception if there
Speaker 2: was one attempted prosecution of somebody and it turned out
Speaker 2: that that person or they could not prove that that
Speaker 2: person had anything to do with it, and they fail
Speaker 2: in court to actually prosecute right, think about what that
Speaker 2: would do to not only public perception, but how it
Speaker 2: would weaken any further cases of attempting to prosecute people
Speaker 2: who were a part of this.
Speaker 3: Let's also point out a statement from CBS News. Their
Speaker 3: legal analyst, Ricky Kleiman, said something that I think gets
Speaker 3: the heart of this, noting that many of the names
Speaker 3: in these documents are quote of innocent people. It's people
Speaker 3: who may have been employed. It's people who may have
Speaker 3: gone to dinner or to a cocktail party at Jeffrey
Speaker 3: Epstein's home. It's not necessarily naming people who have engaged
Speaker 3: in actions that were anything like the deplorable actions of
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein and Glene Maxwell. Think of everybody you have
Speaker 3: met in your life up to now. Imagine if any
Speaker 3: one of them committed a crime and you were listed
Speaker 3: as someone who knew, met or was in the same
Speaker 3: room as them at some point, do you think that
Speaker 3: makes you automatically guilty. I hope not, because, like most
Speaker 3: of us, I.
Speaker 4: Met a lot of people. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: This is this is also this problem, I would argue,
Speaker 3: is exacerbated because he is functioning Jeffrey Epstein's functioning in
Speaker 3: relatively rarefied air. A lot of people at this level
Speaker 3: of the socioeconomic pyramid or hierarchy, whatever you want to
Speaker 3: call it. They know each other. They have a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff in common. Of course, they were going to
Speaker 3: run into each other, you know, I mean even all
Speaker 3: the US presidents, even the ones who don't personally like
Speaker 3: each other, they hang out, They know each other. They
Speaker 3: kick it because they have so much in common with
Speaker 3: each other despite their differences. And that's kind of what
Speaker 3: happens when you get to a certain level of finance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is true. Should we just go over like
Speaker 2: some more of these individuals.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: They're not all really named jay Do. No, No, that's
Speaker 3: kind of a monarcher. We talked about Prince Andrew, who
Speaker 3: for a brief moment, looked like he was going to
Speaker 3: get in some kind of actual trouble what normal people
Speaker 3: would call trouble.
Speaker 2: There's a really interesting article you can read called could
Speaker 2: Queen Elizabeth have stopped Prince Andrew's BBC interview from airing?
Speaker 2: That was published I think today or yesterday as we're
Speaker 2: recording this on April fourteenth, and it's in Town and
Speaker 2: Country magazine, And it is a very interesting just concept
Speaker 2: of like, could could the Queen back in the day
Speaker 2: when she was still alive, could she have prevented Prince
Speaker 2: Andrew from actually going on the BBC and talking about
Speaker 2: this that whole like sweating thing.
Speaker 4: Remember, that's like the is the legal framework there.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, but it's just interesting context in that if
Speaker 2: you want to jump through that.
Speaker 3: And before we move on, Prince Andrew is a whole
Speaker 3: other story. He did settle a lawsuit with his primary
Speaker 3: accuser while the entire time denying any involvement or having
Speaker 3: ever met her or anything like that. His attorney said, quote,
Speaker 3: Prince Andrew regrets his association with Epstein and commends the
Speaker 3: bravery of the survivor, Virginia Geffrey Geffrey and other survivors
Speaker 3: in standing up for themselves and others.
Speaker 4: Wow, I don't like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, don't like it very much either. Let's just
Speaker 2: go ahead and talk about Brooklinn. Let's do it. Let's
Speaker 2: get it out of the way.
Speaker 3: Famous amateur saxophonist Bill Glinn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, governor of Arkansas, who didn't know anything about what
Speaker 2: was going on in Mina in the airport there with
Speaker 2: the drugs and the CIA, and didn't know anything about
Speaker 2: what was the other.
Speaker 3: Scandal, factor eight exporting hepatitie and HIV around the world.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he had no idea.
Speaker 2: He had no idea that you know, what was going
Speaker 2: on with mister Epstein and miss Maxwell. He just didn't
Speaker 2: no idea.
Speaker 3: He was just he was like, I'll take a free
Speaker 3: jet you know what I mean, a free jet ride.
Speaker 3: I should say his name is on manifest for the
Speaker 3: private jet he had taken. Four trips have been documented,
Speaker 3: and their response to this, because the Clintons did respond,
Speaker 3: was that these trips were in connection with the work
Speaker 3: of the Clinton Foundation.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, don't forget. Hillary was there too.
Speaker 3: Hillary Rodham Clinton was also there. Not an amateur saxophonist,
Speaker 3: but former Secretary of State, almost president, almost president once
Speaker 3: upon a time, and Clinton neither. No one in the
Speaker 3: Clinton family or political dynasty has at this point been
Speaker 3: officially accused of any crimes related to the Epstein abuse empire.
Speaker 3: Twenty nineteen, Clinton released a statement denying all knowledge, like
Speaker 3: we said, of any trafficking, abuse or related villainy. As
Speaker 3: far as the mechanics of willful ignorance or the ins
Speaker 3: and outs of plausible deniability, that is, I think that's
Speaker 3: up for phi philosophical and legal debate, is it not?
Speaker 2: It is most certainly.
Speaker 3: Oh, but he's not the only president. As we said,
Speaker 3: fans of Home Alone Two Lost in New York, you
Speaker 3: probably remember Donald Trump. He's I would say, most famous
Speaker 3: for his cameo in that In that film, he was
Speaker 3: also president for a time. He is currently busy in
Speaker 3: court for a totally totally different thing.
Speaker 4: I don't know. It's financial right racization.
Speaker 2: So maybe that's New York Manhattan financi guys doing what
Speaker 2: they're doing. Yeah, who knows. Seems like there was definitely
Speaker 2: something going on there. Whether you're a fan of him
Speaker 2: or not, it kind of doesn't change the fact that
Speaker 2: he's also seems to be pretty involved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and of course there were Again, it's the it's
Speaker 3: the kind of thing where if you do or don't,
Speaker 3: if you already dislike someone when you hear them associated
Speaker 3: with something like this, you can immediately and easily make
Speaker 3: a logical jump. Oh sure, even when that's not necessarily founded,
Speaker 3: I will say. You can hear and you can see
Speaker 3: video of Donald Trump dancing with Jeffrey Epstein. You can
Speaker 3: you can see that they are they are talking about
Speaker 3: each other in public and very friendly terms. Donald Trump
Speaker 3: has a quote that did not age well about Epstein.
Speaker 4: Do you remember that one?
Speaker 2: Oh? No, oh, what was that quote?
Speaker 3: In an article published in New York Magazine on October
Speaker 3: twenty eighth, two thousand and two. It's called Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 3: International Moneyman of Mystery. And in this article, the reporter
Speaker 3: speaks with Donald Trump and Trump says, I've known jeff
Speaker 3: for fifteen years. He's a terrific guy. He's a lot
Speaker 3: of fun to be with. It's even said that he
Speaker 3: likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many
Speaker 3: of them are on the younger side, No doubt about it.
Speaker 3: Jeffrey enjoys his social life.
Speaker 2: Hey. You could also find numerous images that have been
Speaker 2: taken over the years with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 2: posing together, looking real chummy, hanging out and remember, yeah,
Speaker 2: Epstein had that palm beach thing. Whyere is maar a lago? Oh?
Speaker 2: Really close? So anyway, there's that. There are also numerous
Speaker 2: pictures social pictures of at least Bill Clinton with Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2: So if you ever like think this is all bs,
Speaker 2: these guys are full of it. Like maybe because a
Speaker 2: picture of someone hanging out socially with another person, maybe
Speaker 2: that's absolutely nothing. Maybe it's literally a business meeting. It
Speaker 2: could be that they could. But when I don't know,
Speaker 2: when you put it all together and their names get
Speaker 2: released in a list the way these guys were, the
Speaker 2: dots have been connected.
Speaker 3: Also, people are not stupid most people. Again, I know
Speaker 3: this sounds naive, but I believe fundamentally that most people
Speaker 3: are incredibly intelligent, especially when given the opportunity to digest
Speaker 3: information and the access to information.
Speaker 4: So picture it this way, folks.
Speaker 3: What if you have a really wealthy friend who just
Speaker 3: happens to live in your neighborhood. Right, he's inviting you
Speaker 3: over to parties because he's a neighborly dude, But often
Speaker 3: he says, oh, hey, hold up, I'll see later. I
Speaker 3: gotta go get a massage. At some point, you have
Speaker 3: to wonder how often does this guy get massages, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, even if you're totally not involved
Speaker 3: in anything else, right if if like I don't know, man,
Speaker 3: it seems kind of hard to ignore.
Speaker 2: If he asks you to get a massage, raise your
Speaker 2: hand and be like, no, thank you, no, thank you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate the gesture, but I am out. Oh other
Speaker 3: people got accused. Michael Jackson. Oh, and David Copperfield. That's
Speaker 3: a deep cut.
Speaker 4: Remember him the Illusionist?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, I do remember him. I remember.
Speaker 4: State Building.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's still active in Vegas. I feel
Speaker 2: like I remember seeing signs for Copperfield in Vegas while
Speaker 2: we were there last time.
Speaker 3: It's weird, Yeah, because celebrities and acts that you would
Speaker 3: have thought are long retired often they just went to Vegas.
Speaker 2: Yep, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe that's the excuse we should start giving
Speaker 3: kids when a pet passes away. Fluffy's Fluffy is fine.
Speaker 3: She's just doing her residency in Vegas.
Speaker 2: Oh, we've been doing this for well over a decade.
Speaker 2: Is that where we're gonna end up?
Speaker 4: We can end up in Vegas. Oh, man, it's just stuff.
Speaker 2: They don't want you to know. We're just in a
Speaker 2: like darkened corner in a casino somewhere and we every day. Yeah,
Speaker 2: welcome back to this evening's episode of stuff. Right, don't
Speaker 2: want you to know.
Speaker 4: We've got a tiger.
Speaker 3: Now, we'll just what we'll do to jazz up the show.
Speaker 3: We'll just use all the leftover props in accoutrement from
Speaker 3: acts in the past.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's great, that's great, that's great.
Speaker 4: We'll get them to drop by.
Speaker 3: We'll check on whichever Osmond is still in action and
Speaker 3: just have them like walk on stage like, hey, one
Speaker 3: of the Osmond's, Dude, it writes itself, it rights itself, agreed,
Speaker 3: And these depositions speak of writing and they seem kind
Speaker 3: of damning too. In the David Copperfield situation, one of
Speaker 3: the survivors of abuse is asked did Field, being David Copperfield,
Speaker 3: ever discussed Jeffrey's involvement with young girls like you, to
Speaker 3: which to which the person responds quote. He questioned me
Speaker 3: if I was aware that girls were getting paid to
Speaker 3: find other girls going to the networking aspect, because you
Speaker 3: mentioned Galley Maxwell searching for people who fit this demographic
Speaker 3: of abuse. They would also offer to pay girls to
Speaker 3: bring their friends over and to bring them into the trafficking.
Speaker 3: It's just dirty stuff, man, And I guess we should
Speaker 3: also point out I hate that it's true, but it
Speaker 3: is important for us to note because of the heinous
Speaker 3: and unclean nature of this conspiracy. There were opportunists who
Speaker 3: would photo shop or construct fake images that appeared to
Speaker 3: have somebody next to Galaine Maxwell or Efrey Epstein, and
Speaker 3: it became for a time it became pretty difficult to
Speaker 3: suss out which of those were true and which of
Speaker 3: those were fakes. And all we can say is thank
Speaker 3: goodness this happened before the huge advent of the deep fake.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there are also non credible accusations coming out
Speaker 2: all the time. There was one really recently involving Disney
Speaker 2: something crazy.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: It made the rounds on TikTok, and the headline was
Speaker 2: that Disney is buying Epstein's Island and making a theme
Speaker 2: park on it, which is just you know, not happening
Speaker 2: at all. That was put out by a satire parody site, which,
Speaker 2: you know, so many things that get circulated on social
Speaker 2: media now originate either a satire parody. Somebody shares it
Speaker 2: without context, I'm assuming because they don't know like and
Speaker 2: maybe an older person who doesn't know how the internet
Speaker 2: works post it and then somebody else sees it like
Speaker 2: oh what, oh my god, and then they start posting.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that, at least as of right now, doesn't
Speaker 2: appear to be true.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm this is Gallows humor. But I'm only laughing
Speaker 3: because I'm remembering a bit from Shane Gillis's one of
Speaker 3: his stand up specials where he's talking about what he
Speaker 3: called He's like, he's talking about how his dad drinks
Speaker 3: a lot and then watches the news and it's the
Speaker 3: worst way to watch the news while you're getting like
Speaker 3: kind of tanked on beer or whatever. And so he's
Speaker 3: he's dozing off and he hears some news like rockets
Speaker 3: are being fired in the Middle East, and.
Speaker 4: He's like, huh, what's going on there? Man?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 3: And then he has to just find the person who
Speaker 3: is unfortunately closest to him physically at that moment and
Speaker 3: try to repeat the story back to him. Shout out
Speaker 3: to Shane Gillis, By the way, he's fantastic stand up.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very interesting fellow. A lot of people find
Speaker 2: him was super controversial. I don't know. I think he's
Speaker 2: a hell.
Speaker 3: I don't know much about him, to be honest. I
Speaker 3: saw two stand up specials, I want to say, but
Speaker 3: apparently he made some I think he was on Saturday
Speaker 3: Night Live. But he did some really out of pocket stuff.
Speaker 2: Well stuff that people are offended by. But again, like
Speaker 2: he's a comedian. He got hired to host SNL. He
Speaker 2: said some stuff. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you do.
Speaker 2: I thought it was funny.
Speaker 3: All right, there we go, you know, speaking of segues,
Speaker 3: let's go back to the horror show that is this list.
Speaker 3: You can read kind of a dubious who's who of
Speaker 3: famous people on these lists or pulled from these court documents. Again,
Speaker 3: there hasn't been a publicized comprehensive like smoking Gun, Little
Speaker 3: Black Book. I Jeffrey Epstein am writing this, and here's
Speaker 3: the list of people that did evil stuff. What you
Speaker 3: can see is again all just from these court documents.
Speaker 3: And in January twenty twenty four, writing for The Independent,
Speaker 3: Alex Ross and EO. Dodds published a pretty extensive list
Speaker 3: of like globally notable figures, including Alan Dershowitz, a lawyer
Speaker 3: and a media pundit. He's listed as being in close
Speaker 3: association with Epstein. He's been accused of participating in this
Speaker 3: trafficking or in the abuse of children. But the question
Speaker 3: here is a little different with this guy because Matt,
Speaker 3: we both know he represented Epstein as his legal counsel.
Speaker 3: You would naturally hang out with your clients as legal counsel, right,
Speaker 3: that's your job.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, some attorneys will not socialize with their clientele
Speaker 2: in that way, So that's.
Speaker 4: What I mean.
Speaker 3: But like in a business meeting sense.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you will have those all the time, right,
Speaker 2: even if it's nowadays, if it's just remote, you're gonna
Speaker 2: have these meetings all the time. But you know, when
Speaker 2: you're in those circles, those I keep calling them superpowered circles,
Speaker 2: like those kind where you exist on that elevation, I imagine
Speaker 2: that those social interactions are probably higher.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're ware like you're you're hanging out and you know,
Speaker 3: you're you're grilling tigers, you're wearing your snow leopard assless
Speaker 3: chaps or whatever, and then you're drinking the adrenochrome and
Speaker 3: you're like, have we lost touch of come in?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 2: Well, we talked about how most of that stuff's not real,
Speaker 2: but the stuff that is real is the folks hanging
Speaker 2: out at the country club right grabbing, you know, a
Speaker 2: couple of holes in the golf course, or hanging out
Speaker 2: at a restaurant that most people can't get into.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bohemian Grove is real. But I want to go
Speaker 3: back to this too. Man, are you telling me that
Speaker 3: you don't think at least a few millionaires have eaten Tiger?
Speaker 1: Ah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, statistically, yeah, at least a few.
Speaker 3: Come on, man, they might not have a regular day
Speaker 3: of it, but they did it.
Speaker 2: I just feel bad for the personal chefs or whoever's
Speaker 2: having to prepare it. That's awful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel bad for the tiger, but yeah, the
Speaker 3: chefs as well. I mean, look, there's also we talked
Speaker 3: about this too. There's Leslie Wexner, the tycoon of Victoria's Secret.
Speaker 3: He has a long running association with Epstein that paved
Speaker 3: the way for the launch of his financial empire, and
Speaker 3: their real estate dealings get very shisty very quickly. And
Speaker 3: then there are other honorable mentions. Matt, before we go
Speaker 3: to an ad break, is it cool if we just
Speaker 3: laundry list off a few more people who have been
Speaker 3: mentioning these court documents.
Speaker 2: Sure, there's Leo. Leo was in there. Leonardo DiCaprio, M.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Richard Branson, which is weird because he
Speaker 3: has an airline.
Speaker 2: Al Gore, I did not expect Naomi Campbell to be
Speaker 2: on there.
Speaker 3: Surprise for me as well. Honestly, I guess Bill Gates
Speaker 3: should have not been a surprise because he's so wealthy.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: And then, like other sleeper I hesitate to call him
Speaker 3: sleeper hits, but like Kate Blanchett, Heidi Kloom Gloom Club,
Speaker 3: I'm not plugged in Klum.
Speaker 2: It's glum clue.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: And then Chris Tucker, which really bums me out.
Speaker 4: Yeah I loved Friday.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, just really, that's upsetting Chris, if you're
Speaker 2: really on there and that's what happened.
Speaker 3: Former Prime Minister of Israel, Hud Barak, Kevin Spacey, Stephen Hawking,
Speaker 3: the like, the list goes on. We're gonna pause for
Speaker 3: a word from our sponsor and we'll we'll dive into
Speaker 3: more of these allegations.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back. Let's jump to the new stuff coming
Speaker 2: to us from why this It's upsetting on a number
Speaker 2: of levels for me to talk about this. First, let's
Speaker 2: talk about targeted advertising and what can happen when your
Speaker 2: phone is being served targeted ads and or is being
Speaker 2: prepared to be served targeted ads. This is from a
Speaker 2: Wired article titled Jeffrey Epstein's Island Visitors Exposed by Data Broker,
Speaker 2: published on March twenty eighth, twenty twenty four. You can
Speaker 2: find it right now, and let's just here's a quote
Speaker 2: from it. It's about how this works. Before a targeted
Speaker 2: advertisement appears on an APPAA website, phones and other devices
Speaker 2: send information about their owners to real time bidding platforms
Speaker 2: and add exchanges, frequently including users' location data and other
Speaker 2: personal information about them, sometimes low level personal information. It
Speaker 2: depends often on basically what you've allowed your carrier to
Speaker 2: track and send. While advertisers can use this data to
Speaker 2: inform their bidding decisions. Again, for those targeted advertisements, companies
Speaker 2: like the one we're going to talk about right now,
Speaker 2: Near Intelligence that's the name, which is a funny name,
Speaker 2: isn't it. Near Intelligence. It will siphon, repackage, analyze, and
Speaker 2: sell all of that data, including your location data. So
Speaker 2: this outfit Near Intelligence got a hold of location tracking data.
Speaker 2: That's associated with these targeted advertisements or the data for them.
Speaker 2: And they collected almost two hundred mobile devices of people
Speaker 2: who definitely confirmed visited that island of Jeffrey Epstein's Island,
Speaker 2: and then they tracked them forwards and backwards in time
Speaker 2: from their time on that island as well as their
Speaker 2: movements on the island health and it is crazy the
Speaker 2: precision that this data has to it of where these
Speaker 2: people went. There are coordinates that pinpoint within a a
Speaker 2: several centimeters of space, if that makes sense. So what
Speaker 2: they ended up being able to do is compile all
Speaker 2: of this stuff together from as early as July twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen to the final date of Jeffrey Epstein's arrest on
Speaker 2: July sixth, twenty nineteen. So that's that's about what three
Speaker 2: years there of tracking data, and they tracked it to
Speaker 2: individual homes, to mansions to here we go. Let's see
Speaker 2: to one hundred and sixty six locations throughout the United
Speaker 2: States before and after they visited Little Saint James Island.
Speaker 2: There are eleven two hundred and seventy nine coordinates that
Speaker 2: were then you know, they were tract and then were
Speaker 2: obtained by wired and written about it. Also points to Ukraine,
Speaker 2: the Cayman Islands, Australia, and again, as we mentioned previously,
Speaker 2: Europe was not shown in any of that tracking data
Speaker 2: because of their privacy laws. This is just very crazy.
Speaker 2: Oh eighty cities, eighty cities in Florida, Massachusetts, Texas, Michigan,
Speaker 2: and New York at the very top.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in terms of like frequency of travel.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can also you can also cross reference
Speaker 3: some of that with like flight plans. But this is
Speaker 3: a higher fidelity of accuracy, I would say, if that's
Speaker 3: not too redundant, and we know there are more questions
Speaker 3: out there. It's so creepy that this news had somewhat
Speaker 3: faded into the background a lot of times, right to
Speaker 3: the point where it's kind of like Edward Snowed or
Speaker 3: Julian Assange. You have to go look for these stories
Speaker 3: until a big court case pops up. You know, it
Speaker 3: might surprise a lot of us listening tonight that there
Speaker 3: has been very little in the way of additional prosecution
Speaker 3: against or investigation into individuals other than Galley Maxwell and
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein. There has been a lot of chatter, a
Speaker 3: lot of real time conspiracy folklore, formation, tons of rumors.
Speaker 3: You know, there's another thing that stuck out to me
Speaker 3: in that December twenty twenty three court order revealing the
Speaker 3: names of these various jay does the judge Presca said
Speaker 3: the following quote. The people whose names are to be disclosed,
Speaker 3: including sexual abuse victims, litigation witnesses, Epstein's employees, and even
Speaker 3: some people with only a passing connection to the scandal,
Speaker 3: have until January first to appeal the order. This essentially
Speaker 3: gave anyone in the documents two weeks fourteen days to
Speaker 3: appeal a decision to name them publicly. So we still
Speaker 3: have to wonder, you know, where the people had their
Speaker 3: legal team on the ball and just said, hey, keep
Speaker 3: me out of it. I mean, some people clearly took
Speaker 3: something like a nothing to hide kind of stance, like
Speaker 3: the Clintons are on record, you know, not attempting to
Speaker 3: erase their names and also providing a public statement. I
Speaker 3: just I don't know, man, the back and forth. Sometimes
Speaker 3: the Internet gets so abstract that it feels as though
Speaker 3: people are forgetting these crimes are real things and they
Speaker 3: happen to real people who survived and carry that trauma.
Speaker 3: You know, I wish we could say there was justice,
Speaker 3: and I guess there is justice of the sort. Glame
Speaker 3: Maxwell is locked up. We know Epstein did not act alone.
Speaker 3: And if there was a larger child abuse network at
Speaker 3: play that was you know, very active and organized, then
Speaker 3: what happened to the rest of them? Why why aren't
Speaker 3: they in court?
Speaker 2: I think this is why I'm bringing up that data
Speaker 2: from the location tracking, because it's it. We actually have
Speaker 2: the information now. The specific to a centimeter tracking shows
Speaker 2: exactly where people live and generally who they are, probably
Speaker 2: at all likelihood, because there are several maps that were
Speaker 2: generated that include common evening locations for each device, in
Speaker 2: common daytime locations for each device like pinpointed. The problem
Speaker 2: is Wired is like they've reproduced several images of the maps,
Speaker 2: but they're super generalized because if you actually looked at
Speaker 2: the tracking data for an individual device, you could say, oh,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, uh, this is speculating, but that is
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton's like phone, that's that's his place of residence,
Speaker 2: and that's you know, here is where he was on
Speaker 2: this date and all this other stuff or whatever for
Speaker 2: an appearance, and you could I think a law enforcement
Speaker 2: would have to come through and take that data and
Speaker 2: have to have a reason to use that data to
Speaker 2: try and you know, basically bring someone else in on charges.
Speaker 2: Otherwise it's still kind of accusations. And it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: if you've got evidence of this specific evidence of someone
Speaker 2: traveling to an island, because that just travel to that
Speaker 2: island doesn't prove anything. Right, So we've actually got a
Speaker 2: we have the data, it's just we maybe can't use it,
Speaker 2: or an organization like Wired and other media outlets are
Speaker 2: not going to use it because it could potentially be
Speaker 2: a legal firestorm of biblical proportions.
Speaker 3: And then there are other possible intervening variables, and I
Speaker 3: think that point was well said Matt. There are other
Speaker 3: possible variables, such as the idea that there is evidence
Speaker 3: that appears to have vanished, right, multiple survivors, multiple eyewitnesses
Speaker 3: are saying there were collections of photographs of CSAM or
Speaker 3: child sexual abuse material, possibly video, we don't know where
Speaker 3: it is. And then maybe the most tenuous thing, but
Speaker 3: still a very real thing, is the possible intelligence connection.
Speaker 3: Because Robert Maxwell Glaine's father had his fingers in a
Speaker 3: lot of things, and he has been alleged over time
Speaker 3: to have connections with multiple intel ops, most notably Masad,
Speaker 3: and this naturally prompted the question, founded or unfounded, as
Speaker 3: to whether Epstein was perpetrating this unclean conspiracy in service
Speaker 3: to some other power, just because he was himself a
Speaker 3: diseased individual, but because he was being actively instructed to
Speaker 3: get dirt on people.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, okay, let's go back to ninety six. The
Speaker 2: first time that the FBI hears about this guy, or
Speaker 2: at least what we think is probably the first time
Speaker 2: the FBI is really made aware of Jeffrey Epstein and
Speaker 2: the possible activities that he's partaking in. Do you think
Speaker 2: that is a even though nothing happened, right, there was
Speaker 2: no investigation, nothing happened because of those allegations. Do you
Speaker 2: think there's a possibility that someone within the FBI was
Speaker 2: alerted because of his status in society in Manhattan and
Speaker 2: was potentially reached out to or maybe I don't want
Speaker 2: to say the FBI would threaten anybody, but you might,
Speaker 2: you know, strike up a conversation with somebody at a
Speaker 2: very high class bar and just say, hey, Jeff heard
Speaker 2: you get into X or whatever, and then just lightly
Speaker 2: threats and tim and got him to start working for
Speaker 2: them because It could happened way back in the nineties.
Speaker 2: I think maybe not. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It could have happened before the nineties. It would have
Speaker 3: happened during Bear Stearns. It could have happened to a
Speaker 3: Dulton school saying hey, we'll set you up with something.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the thing could have is not the
Speaker 3: same as did but you're absolutely right, there is. If
Speaker 3: something like this happens, the order of operations could be
Speaker 3: in any specific sequence. Right Yeah, Catching someone and leveraging
Speaker 3: them is something law enforcement does.
Speaker 4: But would they do that to this degree?
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, who knows? We just again we The
Speaker 2: one thing we do know is that a previous head
Speaker 2: of the FBI sure did like to get dirt on
Speaker 2: people and store it in his office and make sure
Speaker 2: he could pull those triggers if he needed to. Old
Speaker 2: Hoover himself. I mean, it's just a real thing, and
Speaker 2: it I don't think he was the last head of
Speaker 2: an intelligence agency and or a very powerful organization like
Speaker 2: that would be interested in having someone like Epstein functioning
Speaker 2: to bring in these powerful people, get dirt on them,
Speaker 2: and then have some kind of either real or perceived
Speaker 2: control over them.
Speaker 3: Right Yeah, absolutely, and neither. If that happened, this would
Speaker 3: not be the first, would also not be the last.
Speaker 3: This stuff continues, and we can't wait to hear your thoughts, folks.
Speaker 3: One thing that we always want to end on we're
Speaker 3: talking about this sort of stuff. To be very clear,
Speaker 3: when we're bringing up these questions, exploring these crimes and
Speaker 3: the possible connections, we are in no way downplaye dismissing,
Speaker 3: nor ignoring the very real trauma suffered by victims. If
Speaker 3: you take nothing else with you from this, listen closely. Please,
Speaker 3: if you are someone you know as a victim of trafficking,
Speaker 3: do not hesitate to reach out to the authorities. If
Speaker 3: you are in a situation where you think local authorities
Speaker 3: may be corrupt. Remember in the US and abroad, there
Speaker 3: are national level resources to assist you. Here in the US,
Speaker 3: you can contact National Human Trafficking Hotline. You can leave
Speaker 3: an anonymous tip at their website, human Trafficking Online dot org.
Speaker 3: You can also contact them at the following number one
Speaker 3: eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight. Again
Speaker 3: that's one eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight.
Speaker 3: Be safe, folks, and we're going to unfortunately have to
Speaker 3: continue following this and updating it, and Matt, I'm right
Speaker 3: there with you. I hope that the data broker information
Speaker 3: leads to more answers, because the deeper we dig it
Speaker 3: just seems we're finding more questions.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, in that company Near Intelligence, the one
Speaker 2: that collected all that location data, or at least bought
Speaker 2: it and used it and then released it, they are
Speaker 2: under crazy scrutiny, crippled by debt. There's all kinds of
Speaker 2: stuff going on. Even US senators like Ron Wyden are
Speaker 2: trying to launch investigations into that company right now for
Speaker 2: what is it fencing sensitive location data and all this
Speaker 2: other I mean, which again is a whole other subject, right,
Speaker 2: that's a whole episode, probably just talking about how data
Speaker 2: brokers use location data for targeted advertising. We've talked about
Speaker 2: targeted advertising before as a whole, but that is a problem,
Speaker 2: that is a real problem when it comes to privacy,
Speaker 2: which is what is the thing you always say about privacy, Ben.
Speaker 3: Yeah, privacy as a modern concept is kind of a fad.
Speaker 3: It's very much an endangered species. Your privacy is eroding
Speaker 3: bit by bit as you listen to this episode. We're
Speaker 3: not going to be part of the grift obviously, but
Speaker 3: we do want and need your help.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure, we do. You can reach out to
Speaker 2: us a bunch of ways. One thing I would recommend
Speaker 2: before before you take off, read the Vanity Fair article
Speaker 2: that was written in two thousand and three by Vicky Ward.
Speaker 2: It's talent. It's titled The Talented Mister Epstein, and it
Speaker 2: really goes into his life and his connections with these billionaires, multimillionaires,
Speaker 2: flying them around on his seven to twenty seven and
Speaker 2: all of his socialite life stuff before he was known
Speaker 2: to have done anything, at least publicly. And if you
Speaker 2: watch there's an episode of sixty Minutes Australia by Tara
Speaker 2: Brown and it goes into depth with Vicky Ward, the
Speaker 2: person who wrote that article for Vanity Fair, about how
Speaker 2: she was in contact with people who were making allegations
Speaker 2: back in two thousand and three. But Epstein showed up
Speaker 2: at the editor's office of Vanity Fair and basically shut
Speaker 2: down all those allegations but still allowed this big pr
Speaker 2: piece to go through for him.
Speaker 3: And if you'd like to read the court papers, we're
Speaker 3: mentioning fans of primary sources, if you'd like to read
Speaker 3: those documents in full. You can find them very easily
Speaker 3: over at the Guardian the headline Unsealed Jeffrey Epstein court papers,
Speaker 3: Read document in full. Heads up, folks, it is legally
Speaker 3: ease if you would like to hear more sources, because
Speaker 3: God knows, we have a ton too many to list
Speaker 3: in the show today, do check out our past episodes again,
Speaker 3: we have a lot of them on this as the
Speaker 3: investigations continued. You can also contact us directly for more
Speaker 3: information and you know, contact us pretty old thing if
Speaker 3: you want to send us a pun, if you want
Speaker 3: to suggest a new episode, or just.
Speaker 4: Follow up with how you doing? Little letter from home.
Speaker 4: We love all of that.
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Speaker 3: us a call directly.
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