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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: Rex Hureman, the so called Long Island serial killer in

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Speaker 2: the news again, this as yet another body emerges. Is

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Speaker 2: that body linked in any way to the Youwerman case?

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Speaker 2: In the midst of a new body being found just

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Speaker 2: minutes from Hureman's home, now four witnesses, seemingly impartial witnesses

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Speaker 2: come forward identifying Rex Humorman.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I see Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and

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Speaker 2: on series XEM one eleven.

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Speaker 3: First of all, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: Human remains have been found in a wooded area not

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Speaker 4: more than a thirty minute drive from suspected You'll Go

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Speaker 4: Beat serial killers Rex Heureman's home. The body, identified as

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Speaker 4: twenty year old you Nelli Rainmos from Reno, was discovered

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Speaker 4: in Sunken Meadows State Park on Long Island by park goers.

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Speaker 4: The remains were along a trail at the eastern end

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Speaker 4: of the park, which runs along Long Island's north shore.

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Speaker 4: At least six victims of the Long Island at least

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Speaker 4: six victims of the Long Island serial killer have been

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Speaker 4: found on Gilgo Beach, which is along Long islands south shore.

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Speaker 4: Reno's death has been ruled a homicide.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, this is a young male victim, Janelle Moreno, discovered

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Speaker 2: in Sunken Meadow State Park, just minutes away from Rex

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Speaker 2: Huerman's home. But it's my understanding that this is a

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Speaker 2: more recent killing or is it? Will it somehow be

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Speaker 2: connected to Rex Huerman. It's just minutes from his home.

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Speaker 2: They know he's implicated in the murders of many other

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Speaker 2: young women and possibly one Asian male found near those

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Speaker 2: female dead bodies. But in the midst of investigating a

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Speaker 2: new dead body near Rex Human's home, four witnesses have

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Speaker 2: now emerged. Listened to the Gilbert family lawyer Attorney John Ray.

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Speaker 5: This is a witness who has every reason to have

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Speaker 5: no bias, no interest in the case whatsoever.

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Speaker 6: She is not a sex worker.

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Speaker 5: And instead, back in the nineties, in the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 5: she was what is known then and now as a swinger,

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Speaker 5: and they would go to certain sex clubs in New

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Speaker 5: York City where they would switch partners with other people

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Speaker 5: of like kind.

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Speaker 6: One of the most important.

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Speaker 5: Places that they would go was called La Trapeze on

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Speaker 5: West twenty seventh Street in New York, right eight near.

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Speaker 6: Rex Hureerman's office.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is significant because this club La Trapeze is

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Speaker 2: very close to Rex Huerman's architectural office in Manhattan. And

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Speaker 2: we know that a lot of the activity that is

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Speaker 2: linking human back to the dead women, the.

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Speaker 3: Sex workers occur at his office.

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Speaker 2: Member's wife children are living in their home on Long Island.

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Speaker 2: He catches very off of the Long Island railroad right

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Speaker 2: there at Penn Station near his office, to go home,

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Speaker 2: back and forth. And it's that hub, isn't it? Joining

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Speaker 2: me an all star panel? But first to Mary Murphy

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Speaker 2: investigative reporter pix Pigs eleven, also host of Hunt Inside,

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Speaker 2: the thirteen year search for the Gilgo Beach Killer and

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Speaker 2: needless is say, a recipient of many Emmy awards. A

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Speaker 2: lot of the cell phone pings, a lot of the

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Speaker 2: positioning of the suspect of Long Island serial killer recks

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Speaker 2: hereman happens around his office. Even the pizza that was discarded,

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Speaker 2: the food and drink that was later used to get

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Speaker 2: DNA wasn't near his office. He was arrested near his office.

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Speaker 2: Law Tepeze is near his office. So obviously, if you

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Speaker 2: look at his activity psychologically, he uses his office as

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Speaker 2: basically his batcave.

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Speaker 7: That's a good way of putting it. There was a

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Speaker 7: box of cell phone pings located right near his office,

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Speaker 7: right near Penn Station. And some of the victims who

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Speaker 7: were killed in a Gilgo Beach case, there's cell phones

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Speaker 7: pinged near Penn Station and very close to his office.

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Speaker 7: And we're told that one of the victims whose names

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Speaker 7: emerged after his arrest, Karen Bergatta, that she was a

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Speaker 7: street walker in midtown.

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Speaker 2: So regarding the newest, the newest thing, this witness that

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Speaker 2: comes forward, who goes to a swingers club where you know,

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Speaker 2: you swap partners, La Trapeze on West twenty seven, how

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Speaker 2: close is that to Huerman's Manhattan architectural office.

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Speaker 7: I would say it's only about seven or eight blocks away.

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Speaker 2: Guys, that is maybe a ten minute walk, maybe if

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Speaker 2: you're catching red lights, a ten minute walk from his office.

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Speaker 3: His office is often the hub of his activity.

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Speaker 2: Joining me also in addition to Mary Murphy, investigative reporter

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Speaker 2: of pix E eleven, Robin Drake joining us out of Virginia,

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Speaker 2: behavioral expert, former FBI Special Agent in Chief of the

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Speaker 2: FBI Counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, and I love this book.

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Speaker 2: His book is Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's

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Speaker 2: manual for behavior prediction.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 2: We need you now, Drake, because you can put words

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Speaker 2: to what I'm trying to express. Let's go with Scott Peterson.

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Speaker 2: Scott Peterson kill Lacy his wife. We believe in their

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Speaker 2: home on Covena in Modesto. That was his layer. What

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Speaker 2: was his other layer, his office which had basically a

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Speaker 2: storage area where he kept his secret boat, where he

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Speaker 2: made cement.

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Speaker 3: Let me just say, waits, we believe to weigh her

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Speaker 3: body down.

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Speaker 2: What was his other layer where he would go fishing,

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Speaker 2: his fishing hole where her body was discovered and then

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Speaker 2: later found not far away when it came up from

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Speaker 2: the bottom of the water. I'm trying to verbalize that

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Speaker 2: killers use the area with which they are familiar. You

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Speaker 2: want to get rid of a dead body, think about it,

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Speaker 2: everybody on the palel thing.

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Speaker 3: Where would you go to get rid of a dead body?

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Speaker 3: You know where I would go?

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Speaker 2: Seven bridges in South bibb County. It's swamp and there

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Speaker 2: are seven bridges that go over it to link South

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Speaker 2: bib County to the city of Macon. Why because I

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Speaker 2: know where it is, how can you get rid of

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Speaker 2: a dead body and a place you've never heard of?

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Speaker 2: Explain what I'm saying, Drake, because I believe his hub

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Speaker 2: of activity is going to be not just his home

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Speaker 2: in Long Island at Gilgo Beach where bodies were disposed of,

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Speaker 2: but his office right by this nightclub.

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Speaker 8: YEA one hundred percent nancy. And it comes down to.

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Speaker 9: What you said, feeling comfortable and creating what he's established

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Speaker 9: as a behavior arc of what where he feels safe

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Speaker 9: operating because he's got reps in those areas, and when

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Speaker 9: we're dumping bodies in places, also when you're doing it,

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Speaker 9: you've got to feel safe in that area with a

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Speaker 9: law enforcement that area. So I think a lot of

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Speaker 9: these things are actually putting a bigger point on law

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Speaker 9: enforcement and what they saw and didn't see in questions

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Speaker 9: there when it comes to the investigation. So, yeah, he's

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Speaker 9: clearly displayed to this behavior arc of feeling safe operating

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Speaker 9: in a secretive way from public view.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing high profile lawyer John Ray. He is

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Speaker 2: representing the family of Shannon Gilbert. Now you remember Shannon

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Speaker 2: Gilbert whose body was found out on Gilgo At first,

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Speaker 2: everybody said well, yeah, she's not really connected. This is

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Speaker 2: just a coincidence. Who could buy that her body is

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Speaker 2: near all the other women's bodies that are connected to

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Speaker 2: hereman and she just happened to be dead right there. Okay,

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Speaker 2: Now entering law trapeze, the.

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Speaker 3: Bar for swingers, what does that have to do with Huerman?

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Speaker 5: Listen, sometimes several hundred people at a time would be

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Speaker 5: involved in this place. It's heyday was right at the

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Speaker 5: time that Karen Forta.

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Speaker 6: Is involved in this case.

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Speaker 5: In this situation, this particular woman was dating a police

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Speaker 5: officer from New York City who was a narcotics a detective,

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Speaker 5: and they would go to these switchy clubs, these swapping clubs.

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Speaker 5: At or about Valentine's Day of nineteen ninety six, the

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Speaker 5: couple went to Latropize and I think it was on

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Speaker 5: the wall at latropez where an advertisement was placed to

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Speaker 5: go to a house in Massapequa Park for partying, for switching,

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Speaker 5: for swapping.

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Speaker 3: And isn't a shay Mary Murphy that that is where

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Speaker 3: Rix Huerman lived with his wife.

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Speaker 7: Yes, Rex Chuerman lived, Barren actually was raised there. He

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Speaker 7: spent his whole life in Massapeople Park.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this witness, who was a swinger, goes to

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Speaker 2: wa trapeze.

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Speaker 3: So what wait for it.

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Speaker 5: Listen, she went with her boyfriend out to Long Island,

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Speaker 5: but before they went, her boyfriend picked up a woman

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Speaker 5: in New York in the city and she was a

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Speaker 5: sex worker. They went to Massapequa Park. They ended up

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Speaker 5: going to rex Hureman's house. In the house was the

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Speaker 5: wife of Rex Huremen and Rex Hureman and the other girl.

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Speaker 5: The other girl who we believe to be Karen Vergatta.

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Speaker 5: This girl disappears downstairs at the house. Rex Hureman disappears

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Speaker 5: and according to our witness and other witnesses, when men

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Speaker 5: are swingers, very often.

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Speaker 6: They switch sexually.

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Speaker 5: They go back and forth between male and female.

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Speaker 6: And so Yurman.

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Speaker 5: Leaves the main floor and dis appears either into another

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Speaker 5: bedroom or downstairs.

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Speaker 6: The witness talks to Rex's wife.

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Speaker 2: Okay, whoa we're hearing all along? The wife knew nothing

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Speaker 2: about what was going on. But according to this witness,

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Speaker 2: who is not a sex worker, wasn't getting paid by anybody,

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Speaker 2: wasn't answering to John says that rex Hueman's wife was

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Speaker 2: part of this.

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Speaker 3: Guys, this is a bombshell in this case. Listen.

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Speaker 5: As they're leaving, the witness points out that she could

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Speaker 5: see in the window looking out the girl that had

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Speaker 5: come with them, and she says to her driver, her partner,

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Speaker 5: what are we doing? No, we're taking her, and the

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Speaker 5: partner says, don't worry, they're just playing a game. She stays,

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Speaker 5: there no problem with that. The girl runs out of

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Speaker 5: the house naked and is running in front of the garage,

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Speaker 5: and now the witness says, hey, shouldn't we be taking her?

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Speaker 5: Something's wrong here, and the driver tells her no, they're

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Speaker 5: just playing a game.

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Speaker 6: Leave it, and they leave.

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Speaker 3: They leave the girl there.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about Karen Virgatta, one of the dead women,

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Speaker 2: and this is how it ends.

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Speaker 5: She never hears about the incident again. She distinctly remembers Urman.

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Speaker 5: She also had intercourse with Urman that same day on TV.

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Speaker 5: She sees the picture of Karen Vagatta and she recognizes

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Speaker 5: her and said that's her, and she recognizes Rex Yuman,

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Speaker 5: and so she comes forward. I interview her at great length.

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Speaker 5: Detectives interview her. I interviewed her for a total of

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Speaker 5: nine hours, and I found her story to be credible.

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Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Joining us right now. High profile lawyer John Ray. You

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Speaker 2: can find him at John Ray Law dot net and

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Speaker 2: he is a chosen attorney for the family of Shannon Gilbert.

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Speaker 2: John Ray, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 10: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Wow. This is a huge.

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Speaker 2: Bombshell in the Rex Human case because before I was thinking,

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Speaker 2: you know, John, You've tried a lot of cases, and

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Speaker 2: I love nothing more than DNA deoxarivo nucleic acid, which

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Speaker 2: we have in this case. Don't have much of it,

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Speaker 2: but we have it, and we have the wife's hair

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Speaker 2: on some connected to some of the dead body. We've

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Speaker 2: got the defendant, Rex Human's hair connected to some of

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Speaker 2: the bodies. But DNA, as you well know, can be

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Speaker 2: argued away that it was a transfer, that it was

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Speaker 2: an accident, that blah blah, blah blah. But when you

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Speaker 2: combine DNA with an eyewitness that says I had sex

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Speaker 2: with Humorman, I know what he looks like, and I

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Speaker 2: left caring for God, and God helped me there that night,

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Speaker 2: and she was never seen alive again. A witness willing

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Speaker 2: to come forward and say I was a swinger, who

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Speaker 2: wants to admit that on the stand.

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Speaker 3: Ready to say that on the stand. To me, you know,

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Speaker 3: when you have to put the devil in jail sometime,

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Speaker 3: you got to go to hell to get your witness.

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Speaker 2: Who do you think human's hanging out with nuns and

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Speaker 2: priests and virgins. No, that to me gives this witness,

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Speaker 2: your witness more credibility.

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Speaker 10: John Ray, Well, you should also know that it's odd

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Speaker 10: why they brought Karen with them if it was going

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Speaker 10: to be swapping between couples. And that now is explained

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Speaker 10: fully and consistently through Missus Ellerup's lawyer, Robert Macedonio. He

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Speaker 10: went on television recently and said that there's no way

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Speaker 10: that John Ray's witness can be correct because because his client,

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Speaker 10: Missus Ellip Horeyeman's wife was pregnant at the time, so

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Speaker 10: she would never have had sex. And that's perfectly. First

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Speaker 10: of all, we know you can have sex if you're pregnant.

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Speaker 2: But okay, hold on, John Ray, I got to write

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Speaker 2: this down.

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Speaker 3: This is significant.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, So you're saying it's a couple swinging parties,

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Speaker 2: So why do you bring a sex worker with you

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Speaker 2: when the women are going to be swinging and the men.

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Speaker 3: I don't need a.

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Speaker 2: Fifth will right, But you're saying el was pregnant at

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Speaker 2: the time and they needed that extra female.

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Speaker 3: Am I getting this right?

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Speaker 10: You are? But more importantly, it comes from the horse's mouth.

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Speaker 10: It's Macedonio, who's the lawyer for missus Elliroup, who posits that,

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Speaker 10: who states that on national television, And so we also

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Speaker 10: have that fact consistent with the witness coming forward and

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Speaker 10: saying that when she got there, Missus Ellrop did not

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Speaker 10: want to have sex and had turned away.

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Speaker 11: She's the witness.

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Speaker 10: Thought it was because the witness was African American, but

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Speaker 10: it turns out Macedonia gave us the correct explanation, which

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Speaker 10: is that she was pregnant didn't want to have sex.

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Speaker 10: And by the way, that also explains why they picked

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Speaker 10: up Karen, for got her in the first place, to

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Speaker 10: bring her along to be the partner, and we couldn't

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Speaker 10: figure that out before we knew that about the pregnancy.

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Speaker 10: So it's also very likely that the detective swapper who

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Speaker 10: was driving the card to go there, previously knew hooyaman

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Speaker 10: that they already had a relationship.

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Speaker 3: You mean as Zen had swap partners before.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, hold on, John Ray, I'm not gonna ask

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Speaker 2: you the name.

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Speaker 3: But do you know who the cop is?

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Speaker 10: I do.

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Speaker 2: It's not out there yet, right, correct, Well, he better

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Speaker 2: expect a big fat subpoena coming his way, and I

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Speaker 2: ain't gonna stay quiet for long. Guys with me is

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Speaker 2: John Ray, the lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's family. And now

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Speaker 2: you see why he has interviewed this woman who was

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Speaker 2: not a sex worker, who has come forward and admitted, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was a swinger.

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Speaker 3: I went to Low Trapeze Club. A lot of swingers

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Speaker 3: go there.

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Speaker 2: We y'all went to a party in Massapequa, and this

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Speaker 2: is what happened.

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Speaker 3: I slept. I had sex with Hureman.

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Speaker 2: That's like eating a dirt sandwich to have to admit that,

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Speaker 2: But in my mind that as to her credibility, Doctor

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Speaker 2: Joni Johnson is with us very well known forensic psychologist

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Speaker 2: and private investigator. Doctor Johnson performs risk threat assessments on

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Speaker 2: violent offenders and she's the author of Serial Killer. As

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Speaker 2: one hundred one questions true crime fans ask. You can

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Speaker 2: find doctor Johnson at doctor Joni Johnson dot com. Doctor Johnson,

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Speaker 2: let me give you a good example. Okay, just recently

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Speaker 2: we hear from that POC your van der Sloot and

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Speaker 2: he gives his confession, and I'm saying that with quotes.

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Speaker 2: I'll believe one line on his confession, I kill Natalie.

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Speaker 2: The rest he fabricates to make himself look not as

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Speaker 2: bad as he really is. He's the devil straight from

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Speaker 2: Help Doctor Joni. When you are assessing, as you do

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Speaker 2: statements witnesses, defense tenance victims, to me, it enhances this

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Speaker 2: witness's credibility that she puts it out there. She's not

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Speaker 2: holding back, she's not lying. I was a swinger. I

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Speaker 2: went to this club, I went to this swinger's party

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Speaker 2: in mass Speaker, I slept with Rex Hereman, and I

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Speaker 2: left Kiaren for god of there.

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Speaker 3: What do you make of it?

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Speaker 10: Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 12: I mean, when you were doing any kind of friends

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Speaker 12: her legal investigation or assessment, you are evaluating the credibility

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Speaker 12: of the witness, and that includes looking at things like

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Speaker 12: what do they have to gain? What do they have

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Speaker 12: to lose? Is the evidence consistent with what they're telling me?

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Speaker 12: Are they willing to say things that might not put

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Speaker 12: them in a favorable light? And all the things that

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Speaker 12: you're talking about certainly indicate that this witness is willing

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Speaker 12: to put herself in a light that other people might

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Speaker 12: question or criticize. And so those are things that definitely

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Speaker 12: add to her credibility.

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Speaker 2: Guys, the bodies are piling up, They're all pointing towards

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Speaker 2: Rex's hummen. And now witnesses emerge, and I'll deal with

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Speaker 2: the new discovery of another dead body there at Sunken

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Speaker 2: Meadow State Park, just minutes from human's home in just

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Speaker 2: a moment.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna circle back to that.

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Speaker 2: But these four witnesses, I can't tell you how important

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Speaker 2: this is to the Long Island serial killer case.

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Speaker 3: DNA.

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Speaker 2: While its validity is hard to attack, its placement can

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Speaker 2: sometimes be very easy attacked.

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Speaker 3: Do I have to say, O J. Simpson? Uh, oh, Jackie?

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Speaker 3: Is her head just spun around? I have to say,

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Speaker 3: O J. Simpson? And this is why his.

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Speaker 2: Bloody sucks with the victim's blood on them, were in

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Speaker 2: his home after his wife and Ron Goleman were found murdered.

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Speaker 2: But it was artfully argued at trial that the DNA

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Speaker 2: had been planted and placed.

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Speaker 3: Do I believe that? No, I don't believe that was it?

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Speaker 2: Successfully argued, Yes, it was the placement of the DNA.

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Speaker 3: Why was it there?

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Speaker 2: And it.

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Speaker 3: Dury believed it.

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Speaker 2: So while you can't really argue with the validity of DNA,

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Speaker 2: you can't argue with was it contaminated, Was there a

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Speaker 2: mistake at the crime scene, at the crime scene or

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Speaker 2: the crime lab?

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Speaker 3: Was it planned?

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Speaker 2: Just so many ways you can attack its placement. These

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Speaker 2: eyewitnesses make all the difference in this case. We only

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Speaker 2: know about a few of the victims. How many more

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Speaker 2: women have been murdered by Rex human And now let's

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Speaker 2: get to it without any further pontificating on my part.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen again to our friend John Ray, witness

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Speaker 2: number two.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to our cut to eighteen.

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Speaker 5: The second witness who's come forward. This woman, she's not

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Speaker 5: involved in any sexual activities whatsoever. She has nothing to

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Speaker 5: gain by coming forward. She's not looking for a book

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Speaker 5: or money or the usual things that you're hearing about

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Speaker 5: out there, none of that.

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Speaker 6: But she came.

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Speaker 5: Forward because she's very disturbed about what she knows after

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Speaker 5: she also saw Rex Roomen on television and Shannon Gilbert,

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Speaker 5: And here's her story. She is a banker by day

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Speaker 5: and at night she worked extra in Suffolk County as

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Speaker 5: a taxi driver to take care of her.

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Speaker 6: Family with a one parent family.

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Speaker 5: And as a taxi driver, she is called from her

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Speaker 5: dispatcher to go to the Sayville Motor Lodge on Sunrise

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Speaker 5: Highway and there's a girl awaiting her who's locked in

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Speaker 5: a bathroom and will come out if she flashes her

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Speaker 5: lights and beeps the horn. And she goes there and

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Speaker 5: does that several times. It doesn't work, but then suddenly

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Speaker 5: a giant man who fits the description of Rex Huerman

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Speaker 5: comes out and he's covering his face with his arms.

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Speaker 6: So he can't be seen. And he runs to a

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Speaker 6: van or an suv right nearby that's parked right there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so.

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Speaker 3: Bank day taxi driver.

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Speaker 2: At night, she goes to a pickup it's at the

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Speaker 2: Sable Motor Lawn on Sunrise Highway, and this is what happens.

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Speaker 5: She continues to flash her lights and beeper horn and

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Speaker 5: out comes a girl crying, shaking, very upset and gets

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Speaker 5: in her car. There they talk for a while and

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Speaker 5: then eventually they drive to the Ronkunama railroad station so

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Speaker 5: that this girl can go back in to New York City.

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Speaker 5: This girl was a sex worker who was servicing the

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Speaker 5: Big Man. This girl turns out to be Seannon Gilbert. Now,

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Speaker 5: Shannon is lured into doing this particular tryst, and she's

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Speaker 5: given an envelope or shown an envelope by the man

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Speaker 5: that looked like it was stuff full of money, and

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Speaker 5: he tells her there's one thousand dollars in there. It's

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Speaker 5: for you and your family, no matter what happens tonight.

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Speaker 5: She looks in the envelope when he goes to the

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Speaker 5: bathroom and it's stuffed with paper, and so she panics

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Speaker 5: and realizes something's wrong. So she goes in the bathroom

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Speaker 5: and he had become very aggressive, very angry. She goes

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Speaker 5: in the bathroom, locks the door, and calls to get

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Speaker 5: a cab, and that's how she comes out. They speak

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Speaker 5: for over an hour, so the driver knows her well

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Speaker 5: and notices that she has a drooping eye, which is

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Speaker 5: characteristic of Shannon and also a characteristic of her family.

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Speaker 6: By the way, going back for a generation or two.

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Speaker 2: To John Ray, the chosen lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's family,

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Speaker 2: and we're talking about Shannon Gilbert.

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Speaker 3: Remember all along.

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Speaker 2: She was the first body that was found, but authorities

403
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 2: kept saying, yes, she's not connected, she's not connected. Well,

404
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 2: apparently she is connected because this cab driver distinctly remembers

405
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Speaker 2: peaking Shannon up from being with rex human right down

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Speaker 2: to the drooping eye to doctor Kendall Crown's is joining me.

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Speaker 2: Chief Medical Examiner Terran County Fort Worth. Never lack of

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00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: business there, Dtor Crown's lecturer, University of Texas Austin and

409
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: TCU Texas Christian University Medical School. Patosis refers to a

410
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: drooping eyelid. It means the upper eyelid falls to a

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Speaker 2: position lower than the other. Is that genetic Doctor Kendall crowns.

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Speaker 11: It can have a genetic component to it. It can

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Speaker 11: also be associated with trauma and medical conditions in which

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00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 11: the neuro neurological system is compromised, like in stroke too.

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Speaker 2: John Ray, high profile lawyer for the family of Shannon

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Speaker 2: Gilbert your set, saying that Shannon's family in the past

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Speaker 2: also had the drooping eyelid.

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Speaker 6: Yes.

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Speaker 10: I checked with the sister Shari and she mentioned that.

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Speaker 10: So it was very consistent with the taxi drivers description.

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Speaker 10: And there's no likelihood that the taxicab driver saw that

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00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 10: drooping lid from a picture you know, recent pictures, say,

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Speaker 10: posted on television. But it's possible I suppose, but we

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Speaker 10: also I also vetted this woman, and Rodney Harrison, the

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Speaker 10: police Commissioner of Suffolk County himself, sat with me for

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Speaker 10: almost two hours vetting this woman's credibility as well. We

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Speaker 10: did it together after I had already done it myself.

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Speaker 10: So she's eminently qualified as a witness and a credible one.

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Speaker 10: And her description fits Shatt into a tea, even to

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Speaker 10: the pullback care for the you know, sex workers, you

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00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 10: often wear wigs, and Shaddon was very much a user

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00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 10: of wigs. So here she is coming out with her

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00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 10: hair pulled back exactly as it would have been had

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Speaker 10: she had a wig. So, you know, everything about that

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00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 10: this woman said was credible.

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00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: John Ray, I've been carefully going over literally dozens of

437
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Speaker 2: photos of Shannon Gilbert, and what I noticed is that

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00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: very often she wears her hair in bangs that almost

439
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: cover one eye. And when I first saw that, I

440
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: thought it was just the style. Now I realize she

441
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: may have been covering up or trying to cover up,

442
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: the drooping eyelid, because you know, people often try to

443
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: do their best to cover up what they perceive to

444
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: be an imperfection.

445
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: Also, I've seen her in many different.

446
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: And very very different hairstyles, and it's got to be wigs,

447
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: I mean, and some of them she has like her

448
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: hair is her head is full of.

449
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: Ringlets, and others. It is completely different.

450
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: I mean, clearly she's wearing wigs, like you say, and

451
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 2: that after prosecuting a lot of cases involving sex workers,

452
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 2: I wasn't prosecuting them.

453
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 3: They were typically witnesses in cases. For me.

454
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: Anyway, wigs are part of the costume and they're utilized

455
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: on a daily basis. So now we finally get the

456
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: human connection to Shannon Gilbert, I mean John ray all

457
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: along when authorities are saying there's no connection. She just

458
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: happens to be dead along beside Rex Huerman's other victims.

459
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: Did you ever buy that it was.

460
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 10: The theory that the police espoused from the beginning was

461
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 10: reduced to absurdity and it still is. There isn't this

462
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 10: sintilla of evidence that Shannon died other than by murder.

463
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that she got upset with a different John and

464
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: wandered out into the marsh and died. That died of

465
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: what There was never any none of that ever made sense.

466
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: And remember they couldn't find her body when they were

467
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: looking for her out in the marsh. Was she just disappeared?

468
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: None of that made any sense. So that's two of

469
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: the four witnesses at doctor Kendall Crown's question to you,

470
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: you've dealt with literally thousands of autopsies when you're dealing

471
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 2: with a serial killer. Here we see not only the

472
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: same modus operandi, method of operation of disposing of the bodies,

473
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: but we see the same type of manner of death.

474
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: Cause of death Is that significant when you're trying to

475
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: identify the perp.

476
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: The manner of.

477
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 11: Death, so the manner of death can be is homicide, accident,

478
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 11: natural suicide? It caused the death is probably what you're

479
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 11: more referring to. Yes, Usually with causes of death. With

480
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 11: serial killers, they do like to follow the same pattern.

481
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 11: They kind of have a routine, so you will see

482
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 11: similar methods of killing an individual, similar methods of binding.

483
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 11: As far as identifying of them, you can cluster the

484
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 11: cases together, possibly get DNA from them, but you can't

485
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 11: get people to copy do copycat killings as well, so

486
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 11: it doesn't necessarily identify them based on how they do it.

487
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 3: Who is the next witness? Take us an hour to

488
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: two eight.

489
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 5: The fourth witness comes from another state. She was a

490
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 5: sex worker for many years. She said that she would

491
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 5: service Rex Uomen over twenty times and that he would

492
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 5: He was a serial user of sex workers. He would

493
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 5: sometimes have him come two at a time house and

494
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 5: his wife was home upstairs, and in one instance got

495
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 5: very angry at one of the sex workers because the

496
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 5: wife believed that the worker had stolen an iron from

497
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 5: you know, for ironing clothes, and had had it in

498
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 5: the car with the driver. So the driver had to

499
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 5: get out, everybody had to search the car. There was

500
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 5: no iron, but the wife knew about it and knew

501
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 5: about obviously what was going on in order for that

502
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 5: to happen.

503
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: Wow and last, take a listener for Instant Crime online.

504
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 13: The wife of Rex Hueerman has not been accused of

505
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 13: any wrongdoing by police. They've even gone so far as

506
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 13: to say they believe she was out of town when

507
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 13: the murders of the Gilgil four were committed. However, in

508
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 13: an interview with the US Sun, attorney John Ray points

509
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 13: out he doesn't see how it's possible to ignore or

510
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 13: refuse to investigate Asa Elerap in light of the purported

511
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 13: evidence he has uncovered interesting to point out hair's belonging

512
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 13: to Ellirap were found on at least three of the

513
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 13: women helping lead detectives. Back to Human.

514
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

515
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: To Mary Murphy joining us investigative reporter who's been on

516
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: the case from the get go pix eleven. Mary, thank

517
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: you for being with us again. Got two questions for you,

518
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: and the first one is about asa Ella Up, the

519
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: wife of Rix Hureman.

520
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: She has not been charged, she's.

521
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: Not been named a person of interest, but many people

522
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: have wondered how she could not know what was happening.

523
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: That was explained away by the fact that many of

524
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: Humerman's meetings with sex workers when she was out of town.

525
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: This paints her in an entirely different light.

526
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 7: We don't know what kind of relationship miss elerapad with

527
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 7: her husband, and we don't know the level of their intimacy.

528
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 7: I can just tell you that when this indictment was

529
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 7: announced back in July, the District Attorney rate Tyranny, took

530
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 7: great pains to say he did not believe that the

531
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 7: wife had any knowledge of what was going on, and

532
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 7: even the police Commissioner, Rodney Harrison, said he believed that

533
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 7: Rex Huerman was living a double life. I believe anything's possible.

534
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 7: Perhaps there were sex workers that went to the house,

535
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 7: but from what I'm gathering from the top law enforcement

536
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 7: people on the case, they did not think she had

537
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 7: any involvement. I just wanted to mention a couple of things.

538
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 7: Rodney Harrison, the former police commissioner who just resigned last week.

539
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 7: He was there for the vetting of the second witness

540
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 7: that John Ray has met with, and while he said

541
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 7: that he wanted to look at all of these witnesses,

542
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 7: he didn't want to leave any stone unturned. Be noted

543
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 7: that he was very cautious. At John Ray's press conference,

544
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 7: he didn't give up much information. He just said they

545
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 7: would look at this information. And it was significant, though

546
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 7: that he was there with John Ray. I had never

547
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 7: seen anything like that in my career. He actually left

548
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 7: police headquarters to join John Ray at his private attorney's office.

549
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: Well, I would not expect law enforcement to comment on

550
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: potential witnesses at this juncture, but you're right. The fact

551
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: that he's there with Ray when Ray is making the

552
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: statements about four new witnesses speaks volumes. He doesn't have

553
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: to say anything for me to see that he's standing there.

554
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 3: In solidarity with Ray.

555
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: Also, we learned about another creepy I'm not through yet

556
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: on these four witnesses, but another creepy fact has emerged.

557
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: Take a listen hour cut two for two from investigative

558
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: reporter Dave Mack.

559
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 13: Rex Huerman was so obsessed about showing off his hunting

560
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 13: skills to a female colleague that he stalked her onto

561
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 13: a cruise ship. Miral Henriquez tells CBS forty eight Hours

562
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 13: that Huerman asked her where she was going to be

563
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 13: on her fortieth birthday cruise. She told him, I'm going

564
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 13: to be in the middle of the ocean, and You're

565
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 13: not going to be able to find me in the

566
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 13: middle of the ocean. Hureerman told her, oh yes I can.

567
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 13: On the second day of her birthday cruise, a white

568
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 13: envelope was shoved under her cabin door. It was a

569
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 13: note from Huerman. The note said, I told you I

570
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 13: could find you anywhere.

571
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: Okay, that's completely irrelevant to the trial on multiple murders,

572
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: but wow, I wish a juri could hear that because

573
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: it tells me volumes about rex Hueman himself.

574
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 3: Mary Murphy, what is the significance of the Sable.

575
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 2: Motor Lodge, where, according to one of these new witnesses,

576
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: she made a pickup connected to Hureerman.

577
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 7: The first thing that I thought of when I heard

578
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 7: save Ill Motor Lodge was the fact that just recently

579
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 7: the Fedge locked it down, shut down for good, because

580
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 7: it was the scene of major sex trafficking over the years.

581
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 13: And so when the.

582
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 7: Allegation was made that Shannon Gilbert was there and that

583
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 7: she had allegedly met Rex Herem in there, I thought

584
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 7: of all the human trafficking that was going on. Also,

585
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 7: the date John Ray in this affidavit, which was a

586
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 7: sworn affidavit, noted that it was around two thousand and

587
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 7: nine in the fall. It would probably be September October

588
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 7: two thousand and nine when this incident happened, and that

589
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 7: was around the time earlier that summer that Melissa Barthelmy

590
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 7: had disappeared. But she disappeared from the Bronx. She's one

591
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 7: of the original Gilgo four found on Ocean Parkway in

592
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 7: twenty ten, so it becomes an interesting part of the timeline.

593
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 7: Melissa Barthelemy disappears in the summer of two thousand and nine,

594
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 7: and then in September October two thousand and nine, this

595
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 7: taxi driver allegedly saw a woman she identifies as Shannon

596
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 7: Gilbert with Rex here Men at the Stable Motor.

597
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: Lodge to John Ray, lawyer for the Shannon Gilbert family.

598
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 3: In my mind, this is icing on the cake for

599
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 3: the state.

600
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, I suppose you could say so, but I

601
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 10: just you know, you said that the with miss Enriquez,

602
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 10: the Huriman's secretary, that the issue on the Ocean Cruise

603
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 10: liner was irrelevant.

604
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 6: It's not.

605
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 10: Actually, Rex Heuerman. One of the items sees from him

606
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 10: in the police inventory was survivalist equipment. Doctor Peter Hackett,

607
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 10: who we have pinned as one of the people responsible

608
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 10: for Shannon's death, ran a company called Survivalist Dynamic, and

609
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 10: he ran it with a man who was a sea

610
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 10: captain for cruise ships. And the chances that that Packett

611
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 10: and Huerman knew each other through the survivalist operation in

612
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 10: Long Island are very strong. It's a very small group

613
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 10: of people. They tend to connect with each other, meet

614
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 10: with each other, et cetera. And it wouldn't surprise me

615
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 10: if there was a connection.

616
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: There may very well be a connection in everything regarding

617
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: tracking her down on a cruise ship. Maybe true, But

618
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: after all your years of trying cases, do you believe

619
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: that evidence will come in a murder trial? Not yet, okay,

620
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: And that is why it would be deemed irrelevant in trial.

621
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: Not irrelevant to who Rex Human is. That's why I

622
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: played it because it tells me who he is, but

623
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: it's not coming into trial because has nothing to do

624
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 2: with the victim. The Gilgo Beach victims tells me a

625
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 2: lot about him, but a jury's never going to hear that.

626
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 3: And I wish that they could doctor Jonnie Johnston joining

627
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 3: me out of California. What do you make of what

628
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: you've heard?

629
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 12: Well, I think there's so many interesting parts of this,

630
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 12: and I'd have to agree with you, Nancy that the

631
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 12: whole issue of Rex Human tracking down one of his

632
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 12: employees just to show her that he has the power

633
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 12: to know where she is at all times, speaks of

634
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 12: volumes about his psychology. And you know, one of the

635
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 12: themes that has come up over and over past and

636
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 12: people talking about reg Fureman and looking at some of

637
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 12: the pornography he allegedly was looking at, is this issue

638
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 12: of satism and getting pleasure out of causing other people

639
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 12: discomfort our pain, and that is very consistent with that.

640
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: Robin Drake, behavioral expert, former FBI special agent, What do

641
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:16,959
Speaker 2: you think?

642
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, I can agree more. He keeps displaying a very

643
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 8: consistent art of behavior of control, power sadism, and he

644
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 8: targets and grooms fitting all the profiles as someone that

645
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 8: would do this. All these witnesses.

646
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 9: Coming forward though, really it's helping the prosecution. I believe,

647
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 9: like it's been stated at the same time, though I

648
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 9: keep coming back to we're seeing some law enforcement mishandling

649
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 9: here as well. It really paints an interesting picture on

650
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 9: what's been transpiring there.

651
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is going to play into the defense

652
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: because of the fact that there has been police misconduct

653
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: in the distant past, but it was during these investigations.

654
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: That's all they need to argue. This DNA is irrelevant,

655
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: is plan is tainted. They're going to use that. And

656
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 2: that's why these eyewitnesses that John Ray high profile lawyers

657
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: telling us about, become all the more significant because they

658
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: corroborate the DNA. Mary Murphy joining us Pixy eleven number one,

659
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: the new body that has been found at Sunken Meadows

660
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: is that of a young male, and it's believed it

661
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: was a recent murder.

662
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 3: Hereman's in jail.

663
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 2: He didn't do it, but you know, I think it's significant,

664
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: Mary Murphy, because the defense can now argue, you see

665
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: the killer still out.

666
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 3: There, it's not Heureerman. Can't you just see that unfolding

667
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:43,959
Speaker 3: in court?

668
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 7: Mary Well, The first thing that I thought of when

669
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 7: I heard about the body in Sunken Meadow State Park

670
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 7: was wow, could this be another victim? And you know,

671
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 7: I asked the police commissioner about that before he left office.

672
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 7: He told me he did not think so. When I

673
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 7: heard the name, and when I heard the circumstances, I

674
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 7: had to also think about the fact that there's a

675
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 7: lot of gang activity and gang murders out in that

676
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 7: area of Long Island in Suffolk County, involving MS thirteen.

677
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 3: We do not know the.

678
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 7: Exact circumstances of the murder yet, but I was told

679
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 7: that it was not connected to gilgo.

680
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: Hey, Long Island serial killer. Prosecutors, listen, you better solve

681
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: that case so the defense cannot use it at trial.

682
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: We wait as

683
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 2: Justice un false here Reman back in court November fifteen,

684
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: Goodbye to