Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Alex Brecker is an international communication expert, writer and documentary filmmaker.
Speaker 2: After graduating in communications and film studies in France, Alex
Speaker 2: embraced a career in international development, working with various international
Speaker 2: organizations in Central Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Pacific.
Speaker 2: He lived for three years in Cameroon, during which he
Speaker 2: shot two feature length documentaries, Message in a Bottle and
Speaker 2: the aforementioned The Explorer Quest for Africa's Living Dinosaur. Alex Brecker,
Speaker 2: Welcome to Coast to Coast AM. How are you very.
Speaker 3: Good Richard, Good morning or good evening for you.
Speaker 2: It's also morning here now very early three, just after
Speaker 2: three o'clock in the morning Eastern time. So first of all, congratulations,
Speaker 2: it's a beautiful, beautifully shot film. The scenery is absolutely stunning.
Speaker 2: Just describe where when we talk about the Congo Basin,
Speaker 2: I mean that's a vast area. Just kind of give
Speaker 2: us a sense of what the terrain is like and
Speaker 2: what part of Africa you were in.
Speaker 3: Absolutely so, well, we're talking about the Congo Basin, which
Speaker 3: is a forest, the tropical rainforest that's about the size
Speaker 3: of Europe. It stretches from the from the Athletic coast
Speaker 3: in Gabon to the mountains of the Moon in Tanzania,
Speaker 3: so all across Africa, and it's one of the last
Speaker 3: wildernesses unknown and Charlotte areas in the world. Well, if
Speaker 3: you compare it to the Amazon, for example, the Amazon
Speaker 3: has been widely explored that the Congo Basine remained extremely mysterious.
Speaker 3: So the area in this very vast forest where we
Speaker 3: are looking for mochal Embembe is at at the border
Speaker 3: between Cameroon and the Congo on the Cameroon side along
Speaker 3: the river called the Jar River.
Speaker 2: So mochllyan Bembay will probably be familiar to many coasts
Speaker 2: the coast m listeners. We've I mean, I've talked to
Speaker 2: doctor William Gibbons who's been to the Cameroon and Congo
Speaker 2: on several expeditions looking for the elusive creature. And now
Speaker 2: it has its own movie, Mokelly and Bembay. What do
Speaker 2: the locals say it looks like? How do they describe
Speaker 2: this creature?
Speaker 3: Basically, they describe it as a like a sauropod dinosaur.
Speaker 3: So the first testimonies of Mokembeme. Go back three or
Speaker 3: four hundred years ago, there was a French bishop called
Speaker 3: Abby Projard who was a missionary in that part of Africa,
Speaker 3: and he started collecting testimonies from the locals who describe
Speaker 3: that giant cloth footed animal. That's yeah, I really look
Speaker 3: like like a sauropod dinosaur. So people have it looks
Speaker 3: like an apatosaurus if you look at the different if
Speaker 3: you collect different testimonies. But while there's no clear description
Speaker 3: of the animal, just the global shape. Maybe it has
Speaker 3: a horn, maybe not that every local tribes person would
Speaker 3: agree to say that it's huge, and that's why they
Speaker 3: have called it mokelem Bembe, which means one who can
Speaker 3: stop the flow of rivers. So it does a lot
Speaker 3: about the size of that animal.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned a part a pot of saurus. I
Speaker 2: think that's what we used to call a brontosaurus, which yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean absolutely immense. And the film is titled The Explorer.
Speaker 2: So while it is about the search from a Kelly
Speaker 2: and Bembay, it's really focused on Michelle Below, this former
Speaker 2: lawyer from France who left everything behind to go to
Speaker 2: Africa to find this creature. Tell us some more about
Speaker 2: Michelle belot.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 3: Michelle was a lawyer in the south of France and
Speaker 3: about fifteen to twenty years ago he started writing letters
Speaker 3: to Bernard Shuttlements. So, for dose who know about cryptozoology,
Speaker 3: Bernard Huddlements is a Belgian scientist and he is considered
Speaker 3: the father of cryptozoology. So his very well known for
Speaker 3: his investigations on locktest, monster and Yetti and Bigfoot. Obviously
Speaker 3: he was also involved he examinated the body of the
Speaker 3: Minnesota Heisman, which was very famous, a very famous case
Speaker 3: in the US. So Michelle started exchange letters with Bernard
Speaker 3: Shuttlements and he asked him, like bluntly, where in the
Speaker 3: world am I would I be likely to find a cryptid?
Speaker 3: And Hubanman said, well, you should look at the Congo
Speaker 3: bassin because there you have an animal called mochealem bembe.
Speaker 3: And while we have lots of testimonies, there's some evidence
Speaker 3: and it's likely that there's something out there. So Michelle
Speaker 3: went on a first journey to Cameroon and the Congo.
Speaker 3: He spoke to the locals, the locals confirmed that there
Speaker 3: was something big living in that forest, and then he
Speaker 3: went a second time found new evidence than three times,
Speaker 3: four times he dropped his job and now he is
Speaker 3: a full time explorer. So he dedicates his life to
Speaker 3: the search for local and Bembe. He has been in
Speaker 3: about more than twenty twenty five expeditions. He was writing
Speaker 3: me recently that he's standing for another expedition that will
Speaker 3: take placets in A in October. So he goes there
Speaker 3: two three times a year, and well, he finds new
Speaker 3: evidence each time he goes there, and well, I'm quite
Speaker 3: sure that he will find something one day. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's too many proofs that the beast exists. And Michelle
Speaker 3: is certainly most advanced researcher specialist of mocl M Membe.
Speaker 2: So you were living in the Cameroon for about three years.
Speaker 2: Were you doing sort of NGO type development work there
Speaker 2: at that time?
Speaker 3: Yes, I was working. So I started. I was working
Speaker 3: with WWF, the conservation organization, and then I worked with
Speaker 3: the UM, the Organized Nations.
Speaker 2: Okay, so during that time you met Michelle Belot. What
Speaker 2: were the circumstances under which you met Michelle below? And
Speaker 2: then maybe you can describe what that first meeting with
Speaker 2: this explorer was like.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So basically Michele got a bit of a reputation
Speaker 3: in friends. We got well known in friends because he
Speaker 3: wrote a book called Searching for mochllem Bembey. And I
Speaker 3: read that book and it was absolutely amazing. So at
Speaker 3: the time, I was working with the World Wildlife WWF
Speaker 3: in Cameroon and I wrote that book. And while I
Speaker 3: found the research absolutely amazing and fascinating, and he was
Speaker 3: describing areas which I used to know when we're for example,
Speaker 3: tracking elephants for gorillas, so he was looking for Kembby
Speaker 3: in the same area. And the funny thing is that
Speaker 3: I met some Pigmy tribes people when I was working there,
Speaker 3: and they would talk about mokellem Bembey at night, you know,
Speaker 3: at the fire camp. So when I read that book,
Speaker 3: it really resonated and I was like, okay, I need
Speaker 3: to meet that person because I certainly we have lots
Speaker 3: in common. So I sent him an email. I told
Speaker 3: him like, well, I'd love to join one of your
Speaker 3: expeditions one day if you would invite me, and he
Speaker 3: told me I'm going in three weeks, come along. And
Speaker 3: then I went with him on the first expedition.
Speaker 2: And were you filming at that point or was it
Speaker 2: simply a kind of an introduction to the to the
Speaker 2: terrain and so forth, or did you start filming right away.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, The first expedition was really to go
Speaker 3: there to discover, I mean, to learn more about this
Speaker 3: quest from Mocal and Bemby, to meet Michelle, to look
Speaker 3: at the terrain, and and to be really honest, I
Speaker 3: didn't believe much in mokel em Bemba at the time.
Speaker 3: If you know that part of Africa, well, people would
Speaker 3: describe lots of myths or monsters. They talk about, for example, mermaids,
Speaker 3: the mami watas in the in the in the large
Speaker 3: rivers of Africa, and we know this is certainly not correct.
Speaker 3: I mean, they're not great creatures of flesh and blood.
Speaker 3: So for me, Makembmi was maybe more of a myth.
Speaker 3: Now we went from that expedition. We so when you
Speaker 3: go on an expedition from even from Yon day the
Speaker 3: capital of Cameroon is not statinity journey. So you have
Speaker 3: to to drive basically for for three days on dirt roads.
Speaker 3: It's it's very long. Then you take a dugout and
Speaker 3: you and you and you go on the on the
Speaker 3: on the river, on the jar River, you go upstream
Speaker 3: for for another three days. You have mosquitos, you have flies,
Speaker 3: you have lots of insects, so it's it's quite an adventure.
Speaker 3: And then you reach these absolutely wonderful anky waterfalls which
Speaker 3: is the which are basically the doors to the area
Speaker 3: where Marcleemba Bay is supposed to live. So I went
Speaker 3: to that expedition just to see the nature, to discover
Speaker 3: a new place of the Congo Basine. That the thing is,
Speaker 3: we found something, We found some new evidence during that
Speaker 3: first expedition, and yeah, then I started believing that maybe
Speaker 3: something exists out there.
Speaker 2: We obviously we want people to watch the movie and
Speaker 2: we don't want to give everything away, but can you
Speaker 2: give us a hint as to what that first little
Speaker 2: bit of evidence was that you discovered that led you
Speaker 2: perhaps to believe in the reality of Mokelly and.
Speaker 3: Bembe Yes absolutely well. And it's very funny because you
Speaker 3: mentioned doctor William Gibbons Bill Gibbons earlier in the show,
Speaker 3: and going back to twenty twelve, Bill Gibbons was with
Speaker 3: Michelle in that part of the Jar River and they
Speaker 3: were set in camp and they heard a big roar
Speaker 3: that really crossed the forest and well, the local people said, well,
Speaker 3: this is certainly mokeem Bembe, but it was very far
Speaker 3: and then stopped. But they came back, you know, no recording,
Speaker 3: nothing happened. And when I went back there on this
Speaker 3: So in my first expedition, which was in the winter
Speaker 3: of twenty fifteen, one night we were also set around
Speaker 3: the fire camp and we were starting to eat and
Speaker 3: we heard a huge roar and then a big splash
Speaker 3: something that really crossed the forest, I mean really something loud,
Speaker 3: and the splash was even louder, and we integrated local
Speaker 3: people and they said, well, maybe these are elephant, maybe
Speaker 3: gorillas that we're not really sure, or maybe to put
Speaker 3: it simply, it's mokelm Bembe. That place is known for
Speaker 3: mokelm Bembe. And you know, you know, it was the
Speaker 3: middle of the night. We're in the middle of nothing,
Speaker 3: in the middle of the forest, so you tend to
Speaker 3: believe in what local people say. So the day after,
Speaker 3: we took the dugout and we went upstream to try
Speaker 3: to find the area from where the roar was coming from,
Speaker 3: and we saw some large footprints that were a bit
Speaker 3: hard to read, but it was something very large like
Speaker 3: eighty centimeters and fifty five so something quite big and
Speaker 3: that was it, and the locals confirmed like yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean that's smokel m bembe. So this is what happened
Speaker 3: during the first expedition. And the sunny thing is that
Speaker 3: we recorded a bit of the sounds. I sent it
Speaker 3: to Bill Gibbons and he told me it's exactly the
Speaker 3: same kind of sound that we heard back in twenty
Speaker 3: twelve during our expedition. So this is what happened. And
Speaker 3: when I came back from that expedition. While I had
Speaker 3: more questions, obviously, by the way people talk about mochalm membe,
Speaker 3: what you can find in terms of evidence, well, I
Speaker 3: tend to believe that it's absolutely real.
Speaker 2: So that first expedition that you accompanied, Michelle Bellow, was
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. When did you actually start filming for the
Speaker 2: documentary The explore So that was.
Speaker 3: A couple of years after that, so in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. So what we talk about the winter in
Speaker 3: the Northern Hemisphere is the twy season in Cameroons. So basically,
Speaker 3: if you want to go on an expedition there, you
Speaker 3: can go from there. The window from October November to March.
Speaker 3: Then is the rainy season and it's you really can't go.
Speaker 3: I mean the river, the flow of the river is
Speaker 3: too strong. So in September twenty twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: so in Michelle reaches out and it tells me, well,
Speaker 3: one of my trackers has sound a cave that is
Speaker 3: said to be the den of mochal m Benbe. So
Speaker 3: it's very far. Not only we have to drive for
Speaker 3: these three days and then take the dougout for three
Speaker 3: days and then climb the key waterfalls and walk, but
Speaker 3: we have to work for but ten days in the
Speaker 3: forest to reach an absolutely remote area that's in totally
Speaker 3: pristine forests, so no human civilization, nothing, it's complete wilderness
Speaker 3: out there. Very dangerous as well that we might possibly
Speaker 3: find the den of the animal and obviously some hard
Speaker 3: evidence you know that that market exists. So do you
Speaker 3: want to come? They told him, yes, of course, but
Speaker 3: I would like to do a movie, to film a
Speaker 3: documentary on the research. I mean to share that with
Speaker 3: the world. That it's too amazing, you know. So it
Speaker 3: told me, okay, no problem. I told him, I will
Speaker 3: bring camera. I will certainly hire a Pigmy a tracker
Speaker 3: to help me with the sound. You know, we we
Speaker 3: wanted to be as slight as possible that we wanted
Speaker 3: to shoot a professional movie as well. But we're just
Speaker 3: the two people strong team and we try to be
Speaker 3: absolutely invisible so people wouldn't see us. We just follow
Speaker 3: the expedition and follow Michelle and so that you know,
Speaker 3: we wouldn't be intrusive with the cameras and and it
Speaker 3: worked pretty well.
Speaker 2: And the the the locals, the pygmies, when they talk
Speaker 2: about Mokelly and Bembey, they've seen it, they've encountered it.
Speaker 2: Are they frightened by it? Do they hunt it?
Speaker 3: So they are frightened by Mochal and Bende. If you
Speaker 3: look at the area when you so there's there's there's
Speaker 3: a village called en do'ng go and and Dongo is
Speaker 3: about one five hours a boat right from the port
Speaker 3: where you drop the car basically, and so you take
Speaker 3: the boat, you go upstream for five hours to reach
Speaker 3: that village of Anongo. And this is the last village.
Speaker 3: Then if you go upstream so two three days towards
Speaker 3: the end key waterfalls, you won't find a local and
Speaker 3: the reliever you won't find a village. And even fishermen
Speaker 3: stay in the in the area of the Dongo and
Speaker 3: they don't go further upstream because they're afraid of mochaalem Bembe.
Speaker 3: And it's absolutely amazing. I mean, they are fishermen. It's
Speaker 3: plenty of fish out there, but they don't go there
Speaker 3: because they're afraid of the beast. And if you don't
Speaker 3: have back at the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, no, no, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And if you look back at the history of
Speaker 3: mokealem Bembe, so in another place area of the Congo
Speaker 3: basin called Lake Telle, and that was certainly seventies or eighties.
Speaker 3: So Lake La is another high well hotspot for local
Speaker 3: embmbased sightings. It's a lake, it's a crater lake that
Speaker 3: was certainly created by amatter ride that fell down on
Speaker 3: that forest. And it's another very remote area and lots
Speaker 3: of there has been lots of sightings happening over there.
Speaker 3: And back in the seventies or eighties, there's apparently some
Speaker 3: a couple of local em Bembe were terrorizing local fishermen
Speaker 3: so they couldn't put the boats on the lake to
Speaker 3: go fishing. So the villagers. Local villagers decided to kill
Speaker 3: the local em bembase. So there were some canals leading
Speaker 3: to the to the to the lake, and they started
Speaker 3: breaking traps to try to trap the animal, to attract
Speaker 3: the animal in these narrow water streams and then to
Speaker 3: kill them. So they manage apparently to kill one with
Speaker 3: spears and arrows, and then they ate the meats, and
Speaker 3: the most of the villa died because the meat we
Speaker 3: was certainly poisons.
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