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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Alex Brecker is an international communication expert, writer and documentary filmmaker.

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Speaker 2: After graduating in communications and film studies in France, Alex

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Speaker 2: embraced a career in international development, working with various international

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Speaker 2: organizations in Central Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Pacific.

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Speaker 2: He lived for three years in Cameroon, during which he

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Speaker 2: shot two feature length documentaries, Message in a Bottle and

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Speaker 2: the aforementioned The Explorer Quest for Africa's Living Dinosaur. Alex Brecker,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Coast to Coast AM. How are you very.

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Speaker 3: Good Richard, Good morning or good evening for you.

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Speaker 2: It's also morning here now very early three, just after

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Speaker 2: three o'clock in the morning Eastern time. So first of all, congratulations,

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Speaker 2: it's a beautiful, beautifully shot film. The scenery is absolutely stunning.

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Speaker 2: Just describe where when we talk about the Congo Basin,

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Speaker 2: I mean that's a vast area. Just kind of give

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Speaker 2: us a sense of what the terrain is like and

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Speaker 2: what part of Africa you were in.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely so, well, we're talking about the Congo Basin, which

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Speaker 3: is a forest, the tropical rainforest that's about the size

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Speaker 3: of Europe. It stretches from the from the Athletic coast

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Speaker 3: in Gabon to the mountains of the Moon in Tanzania,

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Speaker 3: so all across Africa, and it's one of the last

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Speaker 3: wildernesses unknown and Charlotte areas in the world. Well, if

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Speaker 3: you compare it to the Amazon, for example, the Amazon

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Speaker 3: has been widely explored that the Congo Basine remained extremely mysterious.

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Speaker 3: So the area in this very vast forest where we

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Speaker 3: are looking for mochal Embembe is at at the border

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Speaker 3: between Cameroon and the Congo on the Cameroon side along

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Speaker 3: the river called the Jar River.

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Speaker 2: So mochllyan Bembay will probably be familiar to many coasts

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Speaker 2: the coast m listeners. We've I mean, I've talked to

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Speaker 2: doctor William Gibbons who's been to the Cameroon and Congo

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Speaker 2: on several expeditions looking for the elusive creature. And now

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Speaker 2: it has its own movie, Mokelly and Bembay. What do

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Speaker 2: the locals say it looks like? How do they describe

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Speaker 2: this creature?

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Speaker 3: Basically, they describe it as a like a sauropod dinosaur.

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Speaker 3: So the first testimonies of Mokembeme. Go back three or

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Speaker 3: four hundred years ago, there was a French bishop called

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Speaker 3: Abby Projard who was a missionary in that part of Africa,

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Speaker 3: and he started collecting testimonies from the locals who describe

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Speaker 3: that giant cloth footed animal. That's yeah, I really look

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Speaker 3: like like a sauropod dinosaur. So people have it looks

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Speaker 3: like an apatosaurus if you look at the different if

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Speaker 3: you collect different testimonies. But while there's no clear description

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Speaker 3: of the animal, just the global shape. Maybe it has

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Speaker 3: a horn, maybe not that every local tribes person would

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Speaker 3: agree to say that it's huge, and that's why they

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Speaker 3: have called it mokelem Bembe, which means one who can

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Speaker 3: stop the flow of rivers. So it does a lot

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Speaker 3: about the size of that animal.

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Speaker 2: And you mentioned a part a pot of saurus. I

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Speaker 2: think that's what we used to call a brontosaurus, which yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean absolutely immense. And the film is titled The Explorer.

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Speaker 2: So while it is about the search from a Kelly

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Speaker 2: and Bembay, it's really focused on Michelle Below, this former

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Speaker 2: lawyer from France who left everything behind to go to

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Speaker 2: Africa to find this creature. Tell us some more about

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Speaker 2: Michelle belot.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 3: Michelle was a lawyer in the south of France and

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Speaker 3: about fifteen to twenty years ago he started writing letters

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Speaker 3: to Bernard Shuttlements. So, for dose who know about cryptozoology,

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Speaker 3: Bernard Huddlements is a Belgian scientist and he is considered

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Speaker 3: the father of cryptozoology. So his very well known for

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Speaker 3: his investigations on locktest, monster and Yetti and Bigfoot. Obviously

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Speaker 3: he was also involved he examinated the body of the

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Speaker 3: Minnesota Heisman, which was very famous, a very famous case

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Speaker 3: in the US. So Michelle started exchange letters with Bernard

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Speaker 3: Shuttlements and he asked him, like bluntly, where in the

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Speaker 3: world am I would I be likely to find a cryptid?

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Speaker 3: And Hubanman said, well, you should look at the Congo

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Speaker 3: bassin because there you have an animal called mochealem bembe.

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Speaker 3: And while we have lots of testimonies, there's some evidence

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Speaker 3: and it's likely that there's something out there. So Michelle

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Speaker 3: went on a first journey to Cameroon and the Congo.

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Speaker 3: He spoke to the locals, the locals confirmed that there

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Speaker 3: was something big living in that forest, and then he

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Speaker 3: went a second time found new evidence than three times,

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Speaker 3: four times he dropped his job and now he is

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Speaker 3: a full time explorer. So he dedicates his life to

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Speaker 3: the search for local and Bembe. He has been in

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Speaker 3: about more than twenty twenty five expeditions. He was writing

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Speaker 3: me recently that he's standing for another expedition that will

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Speaker 3: take placets in A in October. So he goes there

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Speaker 3: two three times a year, and well, he finds new

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Speaker 3: evidence each time he goes there, and well, I'm quite

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Speaker 3: sure that he will find something one day. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's too many proofs that the beast exists. And Michelle

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Speaker 3: is certainly most advanced researcher specialist of mocl M Membe.

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Speaker 2: So you were living in the Cameroon for about three years.

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Speaker 2: Were you doing sort of NGO type development work there

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Speaker 2: at that time?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was working. So I started. I was working

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Speaker 3: with WWF, the conservation organization, and then I worked with

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Speaker 3: the UM, the Organized Nations.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so during that time you met Michelle Belot. What

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Speaker 2: were the circumstances under which you met Michelle below? And

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Speaker 2: then maybe you can describe what that first meeting with

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Speaker 2: this explorer was like.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, So basically Michele got a bit of a reputation

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Speaker 3: in friends. We got well known in friends because he

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Speaker 3: wrote a book called Searching for mochllem Bembey. And I

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Speaker 3: read that book and it was absolutely amazing. So at

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Speaker 3: the time, I was working with the World Wildlife WWF

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Speaker 3: in Cameroon and I wrote that book. And while I

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Speaker 3: found the research absolutely amazing and fascinating, and he was

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Speaker 3: describing areas which I used to know when we're for example,

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Speaker 3: tracking elephants for gorillas, so he was looking for Kembby

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Speaker 3: in the same area. And the funny thing is that

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Speaker 3: I met some Pigmy tribes people when I was working there,

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Speaker 3: and they would talk about mokellem Bembey at night, you know,

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Speaker 3: at the fire camp. So when I read that book,

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Speaker 3: it really resonated and I was like, okay, I need

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Speaker 3: to meet that person because I certainly we have lots

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Speaker 3: in common. So I sent him an email. I told

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Speaker 3: him like, well, I'd love to join one of your

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Speaker 3: expeditions one day if you would invite me, and he

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Speaker 3: told me I'm going in three weeks, come along. And

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Speaker 3: then I went with him on the first expedition.

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Speaker 2: And were you filming at that point or was it

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Speaker 2: simply a kind of an introduction to the to the

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Speaker 2: terrain and so forth, or did you start filming right away.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, The first expedition was really to go

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Speaker 3: there to discover, I mean, to learn more about this

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Speaker 3: quest from Mocal and Bemby, to meet Michelle, to look

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Speaker 3: at the terrain, and and to be really honest, I

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Speaker 3: didn't believe much in mokel em Bemba at the time.

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Speaker 3: If you know that part of Africa, well, people would

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Speaker 3: describe lots of myths or monsters. They talk about, for example, mermaids,

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Speaker 3: the mami watas in the in the in the large

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Speaker 3: rivers of Africa, and we know this is certainly not correct.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they're not great creatures of flesh and blood.

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Speaker 3: So for me, Makembmi was maybe more of a myth.

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Speaker 3: Now we went from that expedition. We so when you

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Speaker 3: go on an expedition from even from Yon day the

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Speaker 3: capital of Cameroon is not statinity journey. So you have

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Speaker 3: to to drive basically for for three days on dirt roads.

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Speaker 3: It's it's very long. Then you take a dugout and

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Speaker 3: you and you and you go on the on the

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Speaker 3: on the river, on the jar River, you go upstream

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Speaker 3: for for another three days. You have mosquitos, you have flies,

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Speaker 3: you have lots of insects, so it's it's quite an adventure.

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Speaker 3: And then you reach these absolutely wonderful anky waterfalls which

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Speaker 3: is the which are basically the doors to the area

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Speaker 3: where Marcleemba Bay is supposed to live. So I went

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Speaker 3: to that expedition just to see the nature, to discover

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Speaker 3: a new place of the Congo Basine. That the thing is,

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Speaker 3: we found something, We found some new evidence during that

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Speaker 3: first expedition, and yeah, then I started believing that maybe

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Speaker 3: something exists out there.

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Speaker 2: We obviously we want people to watch the movie and

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Speaker 2: we don't want to give everything away, but can you

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Speaker 2: give us a hint as to what that first little

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Speaker 2: bit of evidence was that you discovered that led you

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Speaker 2: perhaps to believe in the reality of Mokelly and.

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Speaker 3: Bembe Yes absolutely well. And it's very funny because you

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Speaker 3: mentioned doctor William Gibbons Bill Gibbons earlier in the show,

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Speaker 3: and going back to twenty twelve, Bill Gibbons was with

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Speaker 3: Michelle in that part of the Jar River and they

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Speaker 3: were set in camp and they heard a big roar

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Speaker 3: that really crossed the forest and well, the local people said, well,

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Speaker 3: this is certainly mokeem Bembe, but it was very far

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Speaker 3: and then stopped. But they came back, you know, no recording,

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Speaker 3: nothing happened. And when I went back there on this

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Speaker 3: So in my first expedition, which was in the winter

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Speaker 3: of twenty fifteen, one night we were also set around

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Speaker 3: the fire camp and we were starting to eat and

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Speaker 3: we heard a huge roar and then a big splash

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Speaker 3: something that really crossed the forest, I mean really something loud,

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Speaker 3: and the splash was even louder, and we integrated local

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Speaker 3: people and they said, well, maybe these are elephant, maybe

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Speaker 3: gorillas that we're not really sure, or maybe to put

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Speaker 3: it simply, it's mokelm Bembe. That place is known for

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Speaker 3: mokelm Bembe. And you know, you know, it was the

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Speaker 3: middle of the night. We're in the middle of nothing,

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the forest, so you tend to

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Speaker 3: believe in what local people say. So the day after,

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Speaker 3: we took the dugout and we went upstream to try

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Speaker 3: to find the area from where the roar was coming from,

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Speaker 3: and we saw some large footprints that were a bit

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Speaker 3: hard to read, but it was something very large like

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Speaker 3: eighty centimeters and fifty five so something quite big and

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Speaker 3: that was it, and the locals confirmed like yeah, I

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Speaker 3: mean that's smokel m bembe. So this is what happened

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Speaker 3: during the first expedition. And the sunny thing is that

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Speaker 3: we recorded a bit of the sounds. I sent it

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Speaker 3: to Bill Gibbons and he told me it's exactly the

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Speaker 3: same kind of sound that we heard back in twenty

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Speaker 3: twelve during our expedition. So this is what happened. And

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Speaker 3: when I came back from that expedition. While I had

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Speaker 3: more questions, obviously, by the way people talk about mochalm membe,

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Speaker 3: what you can find in terms of evidence, well, I

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Speaker 3: tend to believe that it's absolutely real.

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Speaker 2: So that first expedition that you accompanied, Michelle Bellow, was

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. When did you actually start filming for the

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Speaker 2: documentary The explore So that was.

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Speaker 3: A couple of years after that, so in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. So what we talk about the winter in

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Speaker 3: the Northern Hemisphere is the twy season in Cameroons. So basically,

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Speaker 3: if you want to go on an expedition there, you

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Speaker 3: can go from there. The window from October November to March.

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Speaker 3: Then is the rainy season and it's you really can't go.

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Speaker 3: I mean the river, the flow of the river is

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Speaker 3: too strong. So in September twenty twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 3: so in Michelle reaches out and it tells me, well,

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Speaker 3: one of my trackers has sound a cave that is

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Speaker 3: said to be the den of mochal m Benbe. So

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Speaker 3: it's very far. Not only we have to drive for

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Speaker 3: these three days and then take the dougout for three

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Speaker 3: days and then climb the key waterfalls and walk, but

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Speaker 3: we have to work for but ten days in the

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Speaker 3: forest to reach an absolutely remote area that's in totally

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Speaker 3: pristine forests, so no human civilization, nothing, it's complete wilderness

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Speaker 3: out there. Very dangerous as well that we might possibly

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Speaker 3: find the den of the animal and obviously some hard

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Speaker 3: evidence you know that that market exists. So do you

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Speaker 3: want to come? They told him, yes, of course, but

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Speaker 3: I would like to do a movie, to film a

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Speaker 3: documentary on the research. I mean to share that with

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Speaker 3: the world. That it's too amazing, you know. So it

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Speaker 3: told me, okay, no problem. I told him, I will

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Speaker 3: bring camera. I will certainly hire a Pigmy a tracker

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Speaker 3: to help me with the sound. You know, we we

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Speaker 3: wanted to be as slight as possible that we wanted

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Speaker 3: to shoot a professional movie as well. But we're just

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Speaker 3: the two people strong team and we try to be

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Speaker 3: absolutely invisible so people wouldn't see us. We just follow

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Speaker 3: the expedition and follow Michelle and so that you know,

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Speaker 3: we wouldn't be intrusive with the cameras and and it

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Speaker 3: worked pretty well.

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Speaker 2: And the the the locals, the pygmies, when they talk

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Speaker 2: about Mokelly and Bembey, they've seen it, they've encountered it.

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Speaker 2: Are they frightened by it? Do they hunt it?

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Speaker 3: So they are frightened by Mochal and Bende. If you

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Speaker 3: look at the area when you so there's there's there's

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Speaker 3: a village called en do'ng go and and Dongo is

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Speaker 3: about one five hours a boat right from the port

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Speaker 3: where you drop the car basically, and so you take

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Speaker 3: the boat, you go upstream for five hours to reach

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Speaker 3: that village of Anongo. And this is the last village.

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Speaker 3: Then if you go upstream so two three days towards

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Speaker 3: the end key waterfalls, you won't find a local and

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Speaker 3: the reliever you won't find a village. And even fishermen

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Speaker 3: stay in the in the area of the Dongo and

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Speaker 3: they don't go further upstream because they're afraid of mochaalem Bembe.

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Speaker 3: And it's absolutely amazing. I mean, they are fishermen. It's

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Speaker 3: plenty of fish out there, but they don't go there

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Speaker 3: because they're afraid of the beast. And if you don't

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Speaker 3: have back at the.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, no, no, go ahead, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And if you look back at the history of

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Speaker 3: mokealem Bembe, so in another place area of the Congo

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Speaker 3: basin called Lake Telle, and that was certainly seventies or eighties.

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Speaker 3: So Lake La is another high well hotspot for local

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Speaker 3: embmbased sightings. It's a lake, it's a crater lake that

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Speaker 3: was certainly created by amatter ride that fell down on

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Speaker 3: that forest. And it's another very remote area and lots

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Speaker 3: of there has been lots of sightings happening over there.

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Speaker 3: And back in the seventies or eighties, there's apparently some

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Speaker 3: a couple of local em Bembe were terrorizing local fishermen

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Speaker 3: so they couldn't put the boats on the lake to

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Speaker 3: go fishing. So the villagers. Local villagers decided to kill

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Speaker 3: the local em bembase. So there were some canals leading

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Speaker 3: to the to the to the lake, and they started

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Speaker 3: breaking traps to try to trap the animal, to attract

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Speaker 3: the animal in these narrow water streams and then to

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Speaker 3: kill them. So they manage apparently to kill one with

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Speaker 3: spears and arrows, and then they ate the meats, and

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Speaker 3: the most of the villa died because the meat we

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Speaker 3: was certainly poisons.

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