Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
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Speaker 5: But enough with that, let's get to the show.
Speaker 6: Good morning and welcome to Counterpoints. Ryan. How are you
Speaker 6: doing today?
Speaker 4: Wonderful? How about yourself?
Speaker 6: I'm doing well. We've got a big show. We're going
Speaker 6: to be starting with some really really big stuff coming
Speaker 6: from Israel. Then we'll dive more into the bridge collapse.
Speaker 6: We'll talk about RFK Junior's announcement. Vice presidential announcement speech,
Speaker 6: which I was just told by producer Mac started with
Speaker 6: the land acknowledgement.
Speaker 7: So it's been an interesting campaign. I was going to
Speaker 7: say interesting vice presidential choice.
Speaker 6: Yes, I was going to say pick a lane, but
Speaker 6: that's kind of his whole thing, not.
Speaker 4: Picking picking a lane.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Ronald McDaniel was officially fired for her new gig
Speaker 6: at NBC News. Former RNC chairs so we have some
Speaker 6: updates on that. Ryan has requested a segment on Conservative Twitter.
Speaker 4: What is going on on Conservative Twitter?
Speaker 7: Because I really don't know, and we have somebody here
Speaker 7: who can tell us, So why not take advantage of
Speaker 7: this sort of tell us.
Speaker 3: Yes, we'll do our best, and we have a great
Speaker 3: guest ring.
Speaker 7: Yes, so we're gonna we're going to be talking to
Speaker 7: the guy who's leading a tax revolt in the United Kingdom.
Speaker 7: They have they have discovered a provision in law that
Speaker 7: allows you to withhold taxes if your tax money is
Speaker 7: going to genocide. Can't do that here in the United States.
Speaker 7: There's zero reason for you to be able to withhold taxes.
Speaker 7: They are closing in on one hundred thousand people who
Speaker 7: are pledging not to pay taxes, which given the UK budget,
Speaker 7: is going to be a serious chunk.
Speaker 4: And this is this is early on in their campaign.
Speaker 7: So this this could lead to the United Kingdom stopping
Speaker 7: arms shipments to Israel. So we'll talk about that, and
Speaker 7: you know this. This organization is also working with prosecutors
Speaker 7: around Europe and around the world with the intention of
Speaker 7: prosecuting not only soldiers who are foreign nationals who are
Speaker 7: participating in the genocide, but also Israeli leadership, meaning it
Speaker 7: could become difficult for them to travel and they can
Speaker 7: get picked up here there.
Speaker 4: If these prosecutions go forward.
Speaker 7: So that's all of that's going to be interesting at
Speaker 7: the at the end of the show.
Speaker 6: Certainly significant and also Ryan at the Breakingpoints dot Com.
Speaker 6: That's where you get the full version of Counterpoints, so
Speaker 6: it goes right to your inbox, and no, nothing is
Speaker 6: broken up into different clips, so you can just watch
Speaker 6: the whole thing right there.
Speaker 7: No ads, no must, no fuss, get it an hour
Speaker 7: early Breakingpoints dot Com.
Speaker 4: Why not?
Speaker 6: There you go? All right, Ryan, let's start with Israel
Speaker 6: and actually really with Gaza.
Speaker 7: Yes, So, the United Nations Human Rights Council delivered a
Speaker 7: report yesterday finding that the plausibility of genocide is growing
Speaker 7: greater and greater.
Speaker 4: Let's play a little bit of this clip from the.
Speaker 8: UN Following nearly six months of unrelenting Israeli a sult
Speaker 8: on ocupa Gaza. It is my solemn duty to report
Speaker 8: on the worst of what humanity is capable of and
Speaker 8: to present my finding the anatomy of genocide. One of
Speaker 8: my key findings is that Israel's executive and military leadership
Speaker 8: and soldiers have intentionally distorted rules of international humanitarian law, distinction, proportionality,
Speaker 8: and precaution in an attempt to legitimize genocidal violence against
Speaker 8: the Palestinian people. By deliberately stretching the definitions of human shield,
Speaker 8: evacuation orders, warnings, safe zones, collateral damage, and medical protection,
Speaker 8: Israel has used their protective function as humanitarian camouflage, with
Speaker 8: the effect of concealing patterns of conduct from which the
Speaker 8: only inference can reasonably be drawn is a state policy
Speaker 8: of genocidal violence against the Palestinians. In light of this,
Speaker 8: I find that there are reasonable grounds to believe that
Speaker 8: their threshold indicating the commission of the crime of genocide
Speaker 8: against Palestinians as a group in Gaza has been met. Specifically,
Speaker 8: Israel has committed three acts of genocide with the requisite
Speaker 8: intent causing seriously serious bodily or mental harm to members
Speaker 8: of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of
Speaker 8: life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole
Speaker 8: or in part, and imposing measures intended to prevent birth
Speaker 8: within the group.
Speaker 7: So there's the UN Human Rights Council stating what is
Speaker 7: increasingly hard to recognize from the outside that Israel is
Speaker 7: committing a genocide in Gaza. And I found it interesting
Speaker 7: the way that they curious fear take on this, the
Speaker 7: way that they pointed to what we've all seen, which
Speaker 7: is Israel saying okay, everybody in the north, you evacuate
Speaker 7: to the south, and then firing at people as they're going,
Speaker 7: and then firing at people in the safe zones, and
Speaker 7: then saying, okay, yes, we attacked this hospital, but it's
Speaker 7: because there were tunnels underneath the hospital and therefore these
Speaker 7: were quote unquote human shields, and so they were, you know,
Speaker 7: unfortunate but legitimate military targets.
Speaker 4: And the un here.
Speaker 7: Saying no, none, none of that is an excuse against
Speaker 7: what you're doing, and it seems to us to be
Speaker 7: a deliberate and calculated move.
Speaker 6: Something I find interesting about all of this. I go
Speaker 6: back to a conversation we had, I think in December
Speaker 6: with an expert on genocide who we were talking with
Speaker 6: him about the sort of post World War two historical
Speaker 6: genesis of the current definition of genocide that we have,
Speaker 6: which was a reaction to the horrors of World War
Speaker 6: One and World War Two that had just absolutely terrorized
Speaker 6: a couple of generations of people in the earlier half
Speaker 6: of the twentieth century. And you know, these these questions
Speaker 6: are so it's we agreed to hold ourselves to a
Speaker 6: higher standard, basically, and when you listened to you and
Speaker 6: Human Rights Council, there is something to be said, as
Speaker 6: you were just discussing that when, for instance, when they
Speaker 6: fire on people in the so called like humanitarian corridors
Speaker 6: or the escape corridors, however they phrase it, they're saying
Speaker 6: they're terrorists among them. You know, the Hamas is putting
Speaker 6: civilians at danger by embedding in war time with people
Speaker 6: who are legitimately trying to evacuate. And it just reminds
Speaker 6: me of that David Brooks column I think from last
Speaker 6: week where he said, what would you have Israel do
Speaker 6: not fire on people as they're escaping, you know, like
Speaker 6: it could start like actually, like they're actually It's not
Speaker 6: that these questions aren't complicated. It's not that militants are
Speaker 6: not embedding with civilians.
Speaker 3: It's just that, you know.
Speaker 6: We all agreed to what happened after World War two,
Speaker 6: to these new standards, and that's it doesn't make certainly
Speaker 6: doesn't make war easy to fight a war in a
Speaker 6: way that meets these stands, But what would you have
Speaker 6: Israel do?
Speaker 4: Not that good reason to reach a peace deal.
Speaker 7: And so Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln was met with
Speaker 7: net Yahou yesterday, and we can put up this Axios.
Speaker 4: Report because I think this puts it well.
Speaker 7: Blincoln unloads on Bibi, you need a coherent plan or
Speaker 7: face disaster in Gaza, and their lead goes. Secretary of
Speaker 7: State Blincoln warned Israeli Prime Minister and Benjamin net Yaho
Speaker 7: and his war cabin in a meeting on Friday. Sorry,
Speaker 7: I said yesterday that Israel's security and its place in
Speaker 7: the world are in peril end quote. You might not
Speaker 7: realize it until it's too late, A source familiar with
Speaker 7: the meeting told Axios.
Speaker 4: And this.
Speaker 7: Is the message that we've been getting publicly from the
Speaker 7: Biden administration to the press and to Israel that because
Speaker 7: it almost isn't credible for the Biden administration to say
Speaker 7: that they are concerned about Palestinian welfare. And so the
Speaker 7: way that they constantly frame their concern about Israel's actions
Speaker 7: is that they.
Speaker 4: Say what Israel is doing is hurting Israel.
Speaker 7: Because everybody does agree that the United States does not
Speaker 7: want to see Israel harmed by the way.
Speaker 3: It's basically the argument Donald Trump made recently.
Speaker 4: Donald Trump made that's a very good point.
Speaker 7: He gave an interview to Shelton Addison's paper, the late
Speaker 7: Sheldon Addison's paper, It's free paper in Israel is the
Speaker 7: most widely read paper in the country, and he said
Speaker 7: exactly that, right. He said, you need to wrap this
Speaker 7: up was practically his quote. Right, He's like, this is
Speaker 7: you don't realize how badly this is hurting you. There
Speaker 7: is some type of bubble going on in Israel right
Speaker 7: now that does seem to be blocking world opinion from
Speaker 7: getting through. It's a combination I think of the war fever,
Speaker 7: the trauma from October seventh, and the propaganda inside Israel
Speaker 7: that the entire world is against us, even though the
Speaker 7: entire world is kind of for decades of support what
Speaker 7: it Israel against the Palestinians, but the entire world is
Speaker 7: against us, that thousands of years of anti Semitism are
Speaker 7: driving the criticism of our war effort rather than the
Speaker 7: actual images that we're seeing that the entire world is
Speaker 7: seeing coming out of Gaza.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the Trump point I think is.
Speaker 7: Actually, you're right, it's the same point that Biden's making, Like, guys,
Speaker 7: you don't have any idea how bad this.
Speaker 4: Is for you.
Speaker 6: Well, and so I wanted to get your take Ryan,
Speaker 6: And I think I showed you this before we started.
Speaker 6: But I was reading in the Jerusalem Post about a
Speaker 6: Shifa and I know we're about to get to that.
Speaker 6: But they write around six thousand civilians were also evacuated,
Speaker 6: but unlike the November operation when there was no inspection
Speaker 6: of evacuetions, these civilians were evacuated with a careful inspection
Speaker 6: to catch all of the terrorists. And the pressure that
Speaker 6: Biden is exerting on Israel, Israel is mad about. Obviously
Speaker 6: there have been you know, words exchanged between it and
Speaker 6: yahoom Lincoln and Biden and Israel obviously feels like it's
Speaker 6: getting way too much pressure from the US to move
Speaker 6: to like precision operations or ceasefire, anything on that sort
Speaker 6: of spectrum of wrapping it up to paraphrasing, parapraising Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: And yeah, it's true, that's not like the full demand
Speaker 6: for ceasefire, and it's not going full you know, saying
Speaker 6: as the un just did you know it's not making
Speaker 6: that designation from the US.
Speaker 3: I think the pressure is at least.
Speaker 6: Real, though it might not be enough, but I think
Speaker 6: it is at least real because it does seem like
Speaker 6: Israel is actually adapting.
Speaker 7: Yes, the pressure is real to have Iron nations, for instance,
Speaker 7: Special Rappertoire there saying that Israel is committing genocide like that,
Speaker 7: is that that represents something that can't be ignored. You
Speaker 7: know the case itself that South Africa brought before the
Speaker 7: International Court of Justice with with something like thirteen other
Speaker 7: countries backing it up, where the judges found a plausible
Speaker 7: case that genocide has gone on.
Speaker 4: All of this is creating pressure.
Speaker 7: And we'll talk about talking a second about how Israel
Speaker 7: is actually concerned that this might lead to a restriction
Speaker 7: in arms flows, but it has created this refrain from
Speaker 7: the United States that well, look, Israel's just going to
Speaker 7: do what it's going to do. It's a sovereign country.
Speaker 7: And we actually have a clip that we can roll
Speaker 7: from the State Department making this point here. Let's roll
Speaker 7: Matt Miller, State Department spokesperson number one.
Speaker 9: When it comes to dictating, you're right, no, we do
Speaker 9: not dictate to them, we can't dictate it, and they're
Speaker 9: a sovereign country in the United States can't dictate to
Speaker 9: any sovereign country. They're going to make their own decisions
Speaker 9: and they have been quite clear about that, and we
Speaker 9: would expect nothing less from any sovereign country. That said,
Speaker 9: we always offer our best advice to them.
Speaker 7: On your point about Israel being a sovereign country in
Speaker 7: the US can't tell them what to do. Back in
Speaker 7: May nineteenth, twenty twenty one, you have Joe Biden telling
Speaker 7: that Yahoo is quote was, hey man, we are out
Speaker 7: of runway here, it's over, and it was over.
Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan famously did the same back in nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 4: Ultiment is over.
Speaker 7: Why can't he say it's over this time? Does that
Speaker 7: mean he it supports the continuation of this war, even
Speaker 7: if it means going into run.
Speaker 9: So we support Israel's ability to defeat hamas we support
Speaker 9: Israel's legitimate security objectives. We support them ensuring that October
Speaker 9: seventh can never happen again, and so we continue to
Speaker 9: support their ability to do that while offering as them,
Speaker 9: as I said, our best advice on how to go
Speaker 9: about that campaign. And that's what we'll continue to do.
Speaker 7: What is your assessment on those two Hamas battalions that
Speaker 7: you that the US has said are so key to
Speaker 7: take out and that israels that are key to take
Speaker 7: out it. What's the assessment on why Hamas wouldn't be
Speaker 7: able to just create new with great new battalions. So
Speaker 7: in the appas of a political solution.
Speaker 9: That said, your underlying question is exactly right. Ultimately, something
Speaker 9: that we have learned in our counter terrorism experience around
Speaker 9: the world is that you can while you can accomplish
Speaker 9: counter terrorism objectives on the battlefield, ultimately when it comes
Speaker 9: to when it comes to winning the larger battle, you
Speaker 9: have to offer a political path for the Palestinian people's
Speaker 9: legitimate or in this case, you would have to offer
Speaker 9: we believe you have to offer a political path for
Speaker 9: the Palestinian people's legitimate aspirations.
Speaker 7: So after that, I asked the what I think is
Speaker 7: the obvious follow up question. He said, would Hamas have
Speaker 7: any role, any version of Hamas have any role in
Speaker 7: this political solution that you're saying is essential that you
Speaker 7: can't win this militarily, And he said absolutely not. Hamas
Speaker 7: is a horrific and brutal terrorist organization, which you can
Speaker 7: just draw the circle, you get right back to the beginning.
Speaker 7: Then okay, well, now then you have to eliminate all
Speaker 7: the battalions. Okay, but you've eliminated the battalions, so you
Speaker 7: don't have a political solution. There's going to make more
Speaker 7: battalions because you need a political solution. But you can't
Speaker 7: have a political solution that involves a mass so then
Speaker 7: they're going.
Speaker 4: To just create more battalis.
Speaker 7: And he says we've learned from our counter terrorism experience
Speaker 7: over the last twenty years with the global War on Terror,
Speaker 7: that you can win on the battlefield, but if you
Speaker 7: don't get if you don't win politically, if you don't
Speaker 7: get to some type of peaceful resolution, those battlefield victories
Speaker 7: are quickly reversed and new terrorists are created. So I
Speaker 7: don't see them. I don't see them getting out of
Speaker 7: that doom loop there.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest problems with
Speaker 6: like this entire purported plan, the day After plan. Right,
Speaker 6: we hear so much about the day After Plan, Day
Speaker 6: after plan. It just you can put it out like
Speaker 6: you can type it out, but it's not feasible. Whatever
Speaker 6: they're saying, like to first of all, it took them
Speaker 6: long enough to even put anything out about what if
Speaker 6: you had this like successful eradication of hamas military operation,
Speaker 6: what comes the day after nothing feasible has been presented.
Speaker 6: And that's not because it's like an easy situation. It's
Speaker 6: obviously an incredibly difficult and complicated situation. But nothing that's
Speaker 6: been advanced in support of this vast sweeping military operation
Speaker 6: as feasible.
Speaker 7: And the US has floated the Palestinian authority as as
Speaker 7: the kind of political entity that could get you to
Speaker 7: pay some toward a toward a resolution. But you've you've
Speaker 7: seen Israel respond to that saying, well, there was a
Speaker 7: PA police officer recently that killed in Israeli a soldier
Speaker 7: and injured several others, and so you can't you can't
Speaker 7: have that institution. But if you take that logic a
Speaker 7: step further and you actually have universal values around the question,
Speaker 7: then you ask yourself, wait a minute. So you're saying
Speaker 7: that committing atrocities and let's say, committing acts of genocide
Speaker 7: makes you no longer legitimate as a governing.
Speaker 4: Force, but that only goes one direction.
Speaker 3: That's although they don't agree with the un categorization.
Speaker 7: They just be at the U, but they certainly I
Speaker 7: would imagine they'd have to acknowledge at least some atrocities
Speaker 7: like let's say, the four unarmed teams that they blasted
Speaker 7: with the drone the other day, Like just just that
Speaker 7: you'd say, well, how could you have how could you
Speaker 7: have the people operating that drone be a legitimate political
Speaker 7: force going forward?
Speaker 6: It's a total Yeah. I mean, it's that we have
Speaker 6: done this for decades obviously, say one thing. And then
Speaker 6: I was reading Alie North's memoir actually recently, and one
Speaker 6: of the things he says is, you know, he was
Speaker 6: one of the things he found frustrating. He's like, you know,
Speaker 6: the British, the Israelis, they were trading weapons too. The
Speaker 6: problem we do it is that we were like sanctimoniously
Speaker 6: saying nobody should do this, like we would never do this,
Speaker 6: but of course.
Speaker 4: This is yeah, this is the Iran contract guy. Yeah.
Speaker 7: So meanwhile, speaking of global pressure, for three days now,
Speaker 7: we've seen massive protests in Jordan against the war. We
Speaker 7: can roll some of the footage coming out of there.
Speaker 7: Every time you have some type of the crisis in
Speaker 7: the region, you'll have Yeah, dozens or maybe hundreds of
Speaker 7: people go down to the Israeli embassy. The last three
Speaker 7: days or so, you've seen thousands upon thousands of Jordanians,
Speaker 7: who most Jordanians actually are of Palestinian descent. It's like
Speaker 7: a majority of the Jordanian population. And so this this
Speaker 7: is a especially dicey political situation for US ally Jordan.
Speaker 7: Jordan is a dictatorship that recognizes that recognized Israel without
Speaker 7: getting a solution to the Palestinian question. That has always
Speaker 7: been a source of consternation among Palestinians and also just
Speaker 7: regular Jordanians as well. This is the you know, so
Speaker 7: called Arab Street that people like Thomas Frieden have been
Speaker 7: warning about, you know, for decades.
Speaker 4: But the Arab Street is a real thing.
Speaker 7: And there's only so long that these populations are going
Speaker 7: to allow their governments to collaborate with Israel in this
Speaker 7: annihilation of their family members across the border.
Speaker 6: It gets to the feasibility of any so called Day
Speaker 6: After plan as well. I mean again, it's not because
Speaker 6: this isn't difficult and complicated. It's not because there aren't
Speaker 6: extremists in the governments that surround Israel. But reality means
Speaker 6: that they have to live in that context, they have
Speaker 6: to exist in that context. And it's I mean, good
Speaker 6: luck with how things are going now.
Speaker 7: And so meanwhile, relief efforts attempting to get around the
Speaker 7: Israeli siege of Gods that have taken another tragic turn.
Speaker 7: A dozen Palestinians drowned attempting to get humanitarian aid.
Speaker 4: Let's roll a little bit of this news clip here.
Speaker 2: As they spot a plane and the aid it begins
Speaker 2: to drop, they run as fast as they can. It's
Speaker 2: the rush of the people so desperately that would do
Speaker 2: anything to feed their children now on the brink of starvation.
Speaker 2: This is what survival in Gaza has come to, fighting
Speaker 2: for food, that little bit of aid that makes it
Speaker 2: into the north where a man made famine now looms.
Speaker 2: People chased parachutes that fell into these choppy waters. It
Speaker 2: is desperation that drives them into the sea of What
Speaker 2: you're about to see next is disturbing. It's the reality
Speaker 2: of a war growing more cruel by the day. The fastest,
Speaker 2: the fittest emerged with boxes of American issued and he
Speaker 2: was ready to eat. Others didn't make it out alive.
Speaker 2: People gather around the thin, frail body of a man
Speaker 2: who drowned trying to reach that aid. Twelve people drowned,
Speaker 2: according to paramedics.
Speaker 4: Like, what are we doing to people?
Speaker 7: This is the this is the airlift that is being
Speaker 7: carried out by the United States and collaboration with Jordan
Speaker 7: because the US has refused to put pressure on the
Speaker 7: Israelis to get crossings through over land. You see videos
Speaker 7: every day now of trucks people who you can drive
Speaker 7: for like forty five minutes outside of Gaza and just
Speaker 7: see truck after truck after truck just sitting there idling,
Speaker 7: waiting to go through if it gets through and they
Speaker 7: find so the Israelis are searching these American aid trucks,
Speaker 7: which is insane, Like think about that for a second.
Speaker 7: The implication there is that the US is secretly smuggling
Speaker 7: in arms to Hamas and our ally Israel needs to
Speaker 7: search all of these trucks to make sure that we're
Speaker 7: not arming Hamas. They for instance, will find a tent
Speaker 7: pole because they've destroyed most of the infrastructure, so people
Speaker 7: are living outdoors, so the humanitarian aid includes tents, but
Speaker 7: if a tent pole is too thick, they will turn
Speaker 7: the entire truck around everything in it has to then
Speaker 7: go back and then it has to await a certain
Speaker 7: number of days.
Speaker 4: So the air drops are kind of.
Speaker 7: This this pretend effort that we're doing to suggest that
Speaker 7: we're not complicit in the genocide.
Speaker 6: Do you know what we need?
Speaker 4: What's that we need?
Speaker 3: A peer?
Speaker 4: A peer? Whyn't they just build a peer?
Speaker 7: Yeah, because the problem apparently is that there are enough
Speaker 7: access points, and so we need one more access point.
Speaker 7: If we could just build a peer, maybe floating one,
Speaker 7: and then things could come in unmolested from Cypress.
Speaker 6: We could see some contractors.
Speaker 4: Down there, contractors could what could go wrong there?
Speaker 6: It seems like a fool proof plan.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And so the Cypress is the launching point for this,
Speaker 7: this pier that we're building in Gaza, and Cypress is
Speaker 7: now clogged just like every other poort is. Like, the
Speaker 7: problem is not an inability to get things in physically,
Speaker 7: Like there are plenty of ways that we could do it,
Speaker 7: just Israel just simply won't allow it. And so this
Speaker 7: this relates to these negotiations and the starvation in northern Gaza,
Speaker 7: which is turning into anarchy as Israel continues to kind
Speaker 7: of target civilian police forces there as well, and also
Speaker 7: continues to continue to try to have its own presence
Speaker 7: in there, is blowing up the negotiations. According to Axios,
Speaker 7: you can put up this from barakra Vit. He writes
Speaker 7: the main issue that led to the impast and the
Speaker 7: negotiations on the hostage deal was Hamasa's demand for the
Speaker 7: full return of Palestinian residents to the northern Gaza Strip,
Speaker 7: what is known in IDF parlance as drainage between the
Speaker 7: south of the Gaza Strip to the north. This is
Speaker 7: what Israeli and American officials who live over thea Strip
Speaker 7: have told me.
Speaker 4: And then he goes on the next one. Why this
Speaker 4: is important, a senior.
Speaker 7: Israeli officials said, at the political level in Israel and
Speaker 7: to a certain extent in the US, made a miscalculation
Speaker 7: regarding Hamasa's position and the ability of the mediators to
Speaker 7: extract additional concessions from it, especially on the issue of
Speaker 7: returning to the northern Strip. It seems rather indicative of
Speaker 7: Israeli intent here that allowing residents to return to the
Speaker 7: northern Guyza Strip is such a sticking point for Israel.
Speaker 7: What what could we possibly draw from that? Other than
Speaker 7: that this looks to be a land grab.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean again, it's you have Netnah, who caught
Speaker 6: We've talked about this all the time, caught between a
Speaker 6: rock and a hard place with his own coalition of people,
Speaker 6: who said, what happened after after October seventh was the
Speaker 6: opportunity for Israel to make serious incursions land incursions back
Speaker 6: into land that was given up and to you know,
Speaker 6: that would that that would allow them to create more
Speaker 6: of a barrier, et cetera. Like this was the moment.
Speaker 6: And Netanyah, who who is obviously deeply opposed to any
Speaker 6: idea of a two state solution, whereas Joe Biden is
Speaker 6: deeply committed to a two state solution. And these are
Speaker 6: two people funding a war together, funding and allowing for
Speaker 6: war together.
Speaker 3: It's just you know, indicative.
Speaker 6: I think of that too, that deeper problem for Nahu dynamic,
Speaker 6: the political dynamic in Israel too.
Speaker 7: Now, let's talk about another factor in these negotiations that
Speaker 7: most Western news outlets don't talk about.
Speaker 4: And that is the question of why why is it difficult?
Speaker 7: Why is Israel miscalculating Hamasa's stubbornness on some of these negotiations,
Speaker 7: And if you, if you follow a lot of the
Speaker 7: kind of local press about this, you realize that the
Speaker 7: war for the IDF is going very badly. From the air,
Speaker 7: it is true they have been effectively able to raise
Speaker 7: most of the Gaza strip, but on the ground it's
Speaker 7: a much different story. So the IDF yesterday posted a
Speaker 7: rather extraordinary video, and this is kind of in response
Speaker 7: to the way that Hamas since the very beginning, has
Speaker 7: been posting on Telegram and other channels regular updates from
Speaker 7: the street battles and on a near daily bail basis,
Speaker 7: sometimes you know, multiple times a day, and they become
Speaker 7: iconic among people watching these worth that you've now got
Speaker 7: that that little red carrot that kind of points down
Speaker 7: onto an IDF soldier before say an RPG is centered
Speaker 7: or has become kind of the symbol of this of
Speaker 7: of this war.
Speaker 4: And you'll, you'll, you'll you'll see people.
Speaker 7: Say they're gonna get a red carrot like that that
Speaker 7: that alluding to this, alluding to the fact they're gonna
Speaker 7: wind up in one.
Speaker 4: Of these videos.
Speaker 7: Israel has barely ever put out any of its own videos,
Speaker 7: so they put one out yesterday, and I think it's
Speaker 7: instructive to take take a look at this is This
Speaker 7: is one from uh the Alshifa complex, So this is
Speaker 7: a residential house kind of within the kind of vicinity
Speaker 7: of the hospital.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 7: This is seven IDF soldiers. They see a guy stick
Speaker 7: a muzzle out of a of a rifle out of
Speaker 7: a closet. Now, all seven of them take off. If
Speaker 7: if you're not watching this there they kind of start
Speaker 7: shooting wildly at walls. It looks it looks actually insanely dangerous.
Speaker 7: It looks like they're lucky that nobody died of friendly fire.
Speaker 7: Here at the very end, the guy comes down the stairs.
Speaker 7: So this one guy has chased seven people down several
Speaker 7: flights of stairs.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 7: And then as he's coming down the final flight of stairs,
Speaker 7: they they strike him seven against one, and they decided
Speaker 7: decided to post that. I asked Hin Kaudrey, who who's
Speaker 7: done some reporting for the intercept, who is a reporter
Speaker 7: in Gaza, if she could find out who who this was.
Speaker 4: There were some rumors that it was a police officer.
Speaker 7: There was some rumors that it was Fayak al Machmud
Speaker 7: who was killed by IDA forces. He was the kind
Speaker 7: of senior police commander in charge of making sure coordinating
Speaker 7: with UNRA and making sure aid could be distributed in
Speaker 7: a peaceful way.
Speaker 4: She said, no, it was not. We can put this
Speaker 4: up here.
Speaker 7: It was Omar al Dadu from the al Dadu family
Speaker 7: who was who she confirmed.
Speaker 4: Was a fighter. Uh, not a not a police officer.
Speaker 7: Separately, are our condolences to to hint, she she posted
Speaker 7: this morning that both her uncle and her cousin were
Speaker 7: killed by Israel last night. So condolences to hind and
Speaker 7: to her family for for.
Speaker 4: That added tragedy. Uh.
Speaker 7: But we also wanted to play just for instance, we
Speaker 7: just just randomly grabbed the most recent clip put up
Speaker 7: by the Cassambra Gates on their telegram channel, so we
Speaker 7: can just roll this one here. This is the kind
Speaker 7: of thing they're posting absolutely constantly. So if you're not
Speaker 7: if you're not watching, you're listening. This is an Israeli
Speaker 7: tank rolling through the rubble and gets hit by an RPG.
Speaker 7: You know, just every day you're posting something like this,
Speaker 7: and you can only begin to imagine how horrifying it
Speaker 7: must be to be in one of those tanks rolling
Speaker 7: through this rubble. It's one thing to be in the
Speaker 7: like the tunnels I'm sure terrifying too, but at least
Speaker 7: with a tunnel.
Speaker 4: You're looking that way, and you're looking that way.
Speaker 7: Going through these bombed out healscapes everywhere around.
Speaker 4: You could be an RPG any second.
Speaker 7: And I think, and with the guy with a GoPro
Speaker 7: and you're going to wind up on telegram within a
Speaker 7: couple hours.
Speaker 6: You know, You've done some really amazing coverage of how
Speaker 6: veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan are using psychedelics for their PTSD.
Speaker 6: And in some of the interviews that we've done on
Speaker 6: the show with people, they talk about how that kind
Speaker 6: of warfare is a new kind of PTSD because it.
Speaker 4: Is so every second is terrifying.
Speaker 6: It is exactly. And so what you have here is
Speaker 6: this generation of men, obviously in Gaza, generation of men
Speaker 6: in Israel who are embroiled and just the most horrifying,
Speaker 6: one of the most horrify. I shouldn't say the most,
Speaker 6: but one of the most horrifying. War is always horrifying.
Speaker 6: That kind of war, there's a there's a special trauma
Speaker 6: to it, for sure.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And there's there's a tendency toward kind of war
Speaker 7: porn amongst amongst some folks. And so that's one reason
Speaker 7: we've showed very little of this footage throughout this entire conflict,
Speaker 7: because it's it's horrifying, and you don't you don't want
Speaker 7: people leering or glorifying it in any kind of way.
Speaker 7: The reason we wanted to play it today is to
Speaker 7: make the political point that one of the reasons that
Speaker 7: Israel the United States is having such a difficult time
Speaker 7: in these negotiations that yes, Israel is managing to push
Speaker 7: two million people to famine, a million of them children,
Speaker 7: but on the ground they are not doing well in
Speaker 7: the actual fighting, which is which I think then gives
Speaker 7: the military wing of Hamas, the political wing of Hamas
Speaker 7: a different question. The ones that cutter who were trying
Speaker 7: to reach a deal, it's a different question. The military
Speaker 7: wing of Hamas has an incentive to keep this going
Speaker 7: because I think, what are you going to do just
Speaker 7: keep sending tanks into the line of fire of our RPGs.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like THEO they're like seven dollars RPGs.
Speaker 6: Their incentives are completely different than this, like big modern
Speaker 6: militaries incentives. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 6: And the point that I mentioned earlier about David Brooks
Speaker 6: is what would you have Israel do? Column? And I
Speaker 6: know we disagree with this, but in the macro sense,
Speaker 6: I think that point is really well taken. In the
Speaker 6: micro sense, though, it's like these various examples case studies
Speaker 6: from the warfare just take a step back, you think,
Speaker 6: in service of what like in service of Joe Biden's
Speaker 6: goal for the day after, in service of net and
Speaker 6: Yahoo's goal for the day after, in service of Motrix
Speaker 6: goal for the day after. What's the plan? What's the plan?
Speaker 6: It just it's been an incredible several months to watch
Speaker 6: the floundering on that point.
Speaker 7: And to wrap up this block, we can put up
Speaker 7: a four which I had skipped over. This is the
Speaker 7: Jerusalem Post article about that says Gallance washing. So this
Speaker 7: is about yo have Gallance coming trip to the United
Speaker 7: States trying to head off in arms embargo. And it's
Speaker 7: an interview that was done on Israeli radio with IDF
Speaker 7: Major General Nimrod Schaeffer, who who says just straight up
Speaker 7: in this article, read the whole thing for yourself that
Speaker 7: if the United States tells Israel not to do an
Speaker 7: invasion of Rapa, Israel will not do one.
Speaker 4: That It's just that simple.
Speaker 7: That there are, and he goes into he just says, look,
Speaker 7: Bbe's saying this for political reasons.
Speaker 4: This is just red meat for his base there.
Speaker 7: He said, there is no world in which Israel is
Speaker 7: doing this without the support of the United States. And
Speaker 7: he said they have other ways of cutting off weapons.
Speaker 7: They don't have to publicly say we're cutting off weapons.
Speaker 7: What he describes it as as as kind of a
Speaker 7: process on a spectrum that you're like, hey, what's up
Speaker 7: with what's up that ammunition?
Speaker 4: Where's that shipment? And you just hear back from the
Speaker 4: US H.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's it's caught up in paperwork, like we're gonna
Speaker 7: we're working on it, and it just doesn't come and
Speaker 7: then and then there doesn't have to be kind of
Speaker 7: Biden and bb having a Titanic clash over weapons. Uh publicly,
Speaker 7: but privately they don't get the weapons that they need.
Speaker 7: So that means that if Israel does go into Rafa,
Speaker 7: it means the United States supported that invasion, no matter
Speaker 7: what they say publicly. This is according to broad shape.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not ideal.
Speaker 6: That ideal All right, Rayan, should we move on.
Speaker 4: To the bridge, call, let's go to the bridge.
Speaker 6: So the obviously Soccer and Crystal covered this yesterday. But
Speaker 6: the Key bridge collapse in Baltimore. Now six people are
Speaker 6: presumed dead workers who were you know again doing construction
Speaker 6: on that bridge. Mostly is from what we know, six
Speaker 6: of them presumed dead. Now the black box has been recovered.
Speaker 6: We're told that inspection crew overnight went onto the boat,
Speaker 6: which is still basically stuck in the position after the
Speaker 6: bridge collapsed onto it. So you have this bizarre situation.
Speaker 6: There's an utterly bizarre situation. But the black box apparently recovered,
Speaker 6: which is going to be very helpful because it looks
Speaker 6: like obviously this was there's some type of power failure
Speaker 6: on the ship itself. There's a lot we can get
Speaker 6: into this, but let's just start with B one. This
Speaker 6: is if you're watching, you're going to see exactly what
Speaker 6: we were just talking about.
Speaker 10: So this is.
Speaker 6: The boat itself is basically where it is right now.
Speaker 6: You can see the bridge just collapsed on the bow
Speaker 6: and the bridge is you know, submerged in the river.
Speaker 6: So that's again, this is where they took the black
Speaker 6: box from, because the boat is still exactly right there,
Speaker 6: basically where it hit. Now. Interestingly enough, my dad happens
Speaker 6: to be a retired bridge inspector, so I made sure
Speaker 6: to give him a call yesterday. And there were a
Speaker 6: lot of sort of armchair bridge experts suddenly on Twitter yesterday,
Speaker 6: but they're all there. Actually are also some real bridge
Speaker 6: experts on Twitter. One of them is named John Conrad.
Speaker 6: He runs the website g Captain, and they've had some
Speaker 6: really good coverage of this that basically comports with what
Speaker 6: I was talking to my dad about that when you
Speaker 6: hit the pier in the way that you hit the peer,
Speaker 6: there's almost nothing you could do. There's basically a lot
Speaker 6: of people have been talking about the fenders, you know,
Speaker 6: where the fenders on a bridge like that, it should
Speaker 6: have fender exactly what it sounds like, some type of
Speaker 6: barrier around the different support structure parts of the bridge,
Speaker 6: and this one looks like it didn't have much of that.
Speaker 6: If it did, it was really minimal. And people are like, well, what,
Speaker 6: there's massive cargo ships going through here, why would you
Speaker 6: not have fenders. When the bridge was built in nineteen
Speaker 6: seventy seven, I think they didn't have ships as big
Speaker 6: and powerful as we have now, so bridges were constructed differently.
Speaker 6: It's really expensive to retrofit bridges for that type of thing.
Speaker 6: The other question a lot of people have is the tugboats.
Speaker 6: John Conrad made a really interesting point that so actually
Speaker 6: the tugboats did escort the bridge. You're not required to
Speaker 6: have a tugboat escore escort under the Key Bridge. Interestingly enough,
Speaker 6: and Baltimore, john Conrad said, is not alone in releasing
Speaker 6: the tugboats early. It's also something that happens, for example,
Speaker 6: in San Diego with the beautiful Coronado Bridge in the
Speaker 6: Port of San Diego. So big questions about how many
Speaker 6: different ports are now going to be requiring those tug
Speaker 6: boat escorts. It does seem like why would you not
Speaker 6: have the tugboat escort. At the same time, it also
Speaker 6: seems like this was like a one in a million chants.
Speaker 6: I'm usually that, you know, just as a phrase. I
Speaker 6: don't have any idea what the actual chance is, but
Speaker 6: one in a million chants that you have this ship
Speaker 6: drifting exactly at the point that it did into exactly
Speaker 6: that part of the bridge, the pier basically and hitting
Speaker 6: it the way that it.
Speaker 4: Did, right.
Speaker 7: And I feel bad for some of these bridge experts
Speaker 7: because we don't really need I'm glad. We heard from
Speaker 7: your dad and we tried to get him off, but
Speaker 7: you said that he probably wouldn't be He probably wouldn't
Speaker 7: be into it.
Speaker 4: We'd love to have him on at some point in
Speaker 4: the future if we can talk him into it.
Speaker 7: But we also we a thousand foot bridge loaded up
Speaker 7: with stuff going something like eight knots into any bridge
Speaker 7: anywhere is.
Speaker 4: Going to take it out.
Speaker 7: No amount of fenders, no amount of bumpers, like, there's
Speaker 7: nothing you can do. I think, just as a jobs program,
Speaker 7: I think requiring them all to have tugboats would would
Speaker 7: be a good idea. A bunch of my friends from
Speaker 7: the Eastern Shore worked on.
Speaker 4: Tugboats and they're there.
Speaker 7: There are great jobs for like single men in their
Speaker 7: twenties and thirties, because you're on it for I said,
Speaker 7: I mean some of them, some of them were not single.
Speaker 7: But it's difficult for them because you're out for weeks
Speaker 7: at a time. But and they're really difficult. Jobs are
Speaker 7: tough on your body. But but you like make a
Speaker 7: ton of money and like a six week stretch and
Speaker 7: then you know then and then you're and then you're
Speaker 7: back on.
Speaker 6: Land and the below deck ritual basically yeah, and.
Speaker 7: You're not gonna you can't you know, offshore those I
Speaker 7: mean they're literally offshore, but not far offshore. But because
Speaker 7: you're only doing the tug, you're only doing the tug operation,
Speaker 7: you know, within several miles the harbor.
Speaker 4: But yes, like if if these ships are going to.
Speaker 7: Cut costs by us by not doing the proper maintenance
Speaker 7: and by by otherwise, you know, not having enough redundancies
Speaker 7: so that if you get a power outage, just float
Speaker 7: into the pier or float into the bridge.
Speaker 4: Uh, then you ought to have some.
Speaker 7: Extra redundancies in the form of tugboats. Though they'd have
Speaker 7: to be massive tugboats because these ships are so huge.
Speaker 7: But maybe they can be big enough that they can
Speaker 7: just just be enough to like slow you down.
Speaker 4: Enough.
Speaker 7: Credit though, to the crew for this the may Day
Speaker 7: call that they that they put out for people who
Speaker 7: haven't been following it closely.
Speaker 4: They were able to get a may Day.
Speaker 7: Call out, and uh, Maryland Police and Baltimore Police were
Speaker 7: able to get to the bridge fast enough to make
Speaker 7: sure that the traffic was stopped. You had there's there's
Speaker 7: a radio call from one officer who says, all right,
Speaker 7: I've got the traffic stopped. I've heard that there's a
Speaker 7: construction crew on the bridge. I'm racing onto the bridge
Speaker 7: to warn them, and just as he says that, he
Speaker 7: hears back the bridge just collapsed. Yeah, so it just
Speaker 7: wasn't enough time. It's a long bridge.
Speaker 4: To those workers, it is. It's almost a two mile.
Speaker 6: Bridge, right, Yeah, it's a massive bridge, and from the
Speaker 6: aerial shots it almost makes it look it's hard to
Speaker 6: have perspective on size when you have an aerial shot
Speaker 6: like that where it's just water and a bridge, because
Speaker 6: you know, it's just hard to compare to other things.
Speaker 3: But it's a huge, huge bridge.
Speaker 6: So even with the mayday call, and we can talk
Speaker 6: about the mayday call in a second, because there were
Speaker 6: all kinds of theories kind of bumping around yesterday, and
Speaker 6: I don't blame X for any of that.
Speaker 3: In particular.
Speaker 6: I feel like even before X Ryan, you know, we'd
Speaker 6: all be at bars, like speculating wildly about what happened,
Speaker 6: because it is such a it looks like such a
Speaker 6: one in a million chance. And again, many many ships
Speaker 6: go through this port every single year. It's a very important.
Speaker 6: I think it might be like the eighteenth most busy
Speaker 6: port in the United States, some like eight hundred and
Speaker 6: fifty thousand cars in particulars one thing that passed through
Speaker 6: that port a lot. That's just in last year. So
Speaker 6: let's let's take a listen to this clip from Fox Business.
Speaker 6: This is Maria Barbiromo talking to Senator Rick Scott, and
Speaker 6: B three is right.
Speaker 3: This is yeah, she brings immigration into the conversation.
Speaker 11: A Singaporean flagged container. But of course you've been talking
Speaker 11: a lot about the potential for wrongdoing or potential for
Speaker 11: foul play given the wide open border.
Speaker 6: That is why you have.
Speaker 11: Been so adamant. Why has the Republicans had such a
Speaker 11: hard time securing this border. The President says he's not
Speaker 11: going to take his executive action.
Speaker 3: You know that.
Speaker 4: Well, we all have to stand together.
Speaker 7: We have to say that that it takes sixty.
Speaker 4: Votes to pass anything in the Senate.
Speaker 6: So I think that was like a kind of clumsy
Speaker 6: attempt to pivot the conversation that she was having with
Speaker 6: Rick Scott to immigration more than.
Speaker 3: Like a conspiracy there.
Speaker 6: He's like, you know, there's a possibility and everything like this.
Speaker 4: All of us angors have made some awkward transitions.
Speaker 6: That's what it seemed like, let's give her that one,
Speaker 6: but other people were dead serious about some of these comparisons.
Speaker 6: In fact, so we can put B four up on
Speaker 6: the screen. This is from Michael Flynn, and a lot
Speaker 6: of people remember Michael Flynn from the Trump administration. He says,
Speaker 6: this is a black Swan event. Black Swan's normally come
Speaker 6: out of the world of finance, not military. The standard
Speaker 6: operating procedures for all US ports, harbors and bays that transit,
Speaker 6: commerce and military activities are supposed to maintain an incredible
Speaker 6: level of discipline, rigor, and awareness for these very type
Speaker 6: events to not occur. Ever, yet here we are there
Speaker 6: are harbor masters for every single one of these transit
Speaker 6: ports in America that are in charge of assuring the
Speaker 6: safety of navigation.
Speaker 3: Start there.
Speaker 6: We can also then go to trying to say, so
Speaker 6: I've saw like speculation along these letter.
Speaker 4: I thought he was in prison.
Speaker 7: Now, how's Andrew Tate out there becoming a shipping conspiracy expert.
Speaker 6: There were a lot of shipping conspiracy experts yesterday, and
Speaker 6: you know, I saw conspiracy theories that weren't totally explicit,
Speaker 6: but that were kind of floated along those lines or
Speaker 6: just uh, conversations about what could have happened and how could.
Speaker 7: They packed and like look how it like look how
Speaker 7: the Chinese took the power down and the propelled it
Speaker 7: right into the bridge, like all kinds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't find a nonsense.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't disagree.
Speaker 6: We were talking earlier that this is like extremely unusual
Speaker 6: thing that happened, but explicable, right right, So you know,
Speaker 6: there there, it seems like there are pretty obvious explanations
Speaker 6: for exactly what happened so far. And that's not to
Speaker 6: say that either of us put it past our government
Speaker 6: to be involved in some shady business, but it looks
Speaker 6: very clear like that's not what happened here. I don't
Speaker 6: begrudge people for asking questions at all, because trust in
Speaker 6: government is extremely low, not just among members of the public,
Speaker 6: but among members of the media ryan including US.
Speaker 7: And let's put let's put B six up to talking
Speaker 7: about trust in government.
Speaker 4: This is a from the Lever.
Speaker 7: FEDS recently hit Cargo Giant in Baltimore Disaster for silencing whistleblowers.
Speaker 7: So this is a piece that looked at government documents
Speaker 7: from the Department of Labor that found that.
Speaker 4: The company that runs this runs.
Speaker 7: This ship had recently, about eight months ago or so,
Speaker 7: been hit by the Labor Department for this horrendous policy
Speaker 7: that it had of preventing whistleblowers on its ships from
Speaker 7: going directly to the Coastguard or to other authorities with
Speaker 7: complaints and first having to route them through kind of
Speaker 7: company management. One of the people that complained about safety
Speaker 7: issues on one ship was subsequently fired, which you said
Speaker 7: was retaliation, which the Department of Labor found to be
Speaker 7: a credible claim and came sounds yeah, and came after
Speaker 7: the company. And so you cannot do that, like you
Speaker 7: have to have more serious safety measures in place here.
Speaker 7: And so I think there's something interesting about the way
Speaker 7: that our reaction wants to find some type of conspiracy
Speaker 7: in this, because if there's a conspiracy, that implies that
Speaker 7: actually somebody is in control, like don't like we've got this,
Speaker 7: like somebody's got this, you know, it's in that case, And.
Speaker 6: It's like what Michael Flynn was saying exactly, was saying
Speaker 6: that there are harbor masters.
Speaker 7: But there are nefarious people are who have their hands
Speaker 7: on all of this, and they use that control to
Speaker 7: then create this disaster for some reason that we will
Speaker 7: then figure out later. But the assumption there is that
Speaker 7: it's under control. That's a much more comforting thing to
Speaker 7: tell ourselves. Then it's actually not under control because we've
Speaker 7: allowed greedy corporations to take over our government and our
Speaker 7: regulatory apparatuses, and these Singaporean ships that can have low
Speaker 7: wage labor from you know, any anywhere anywhere in the
Speaker 7: world without any kind of uh, you know, training or
Speaker 7: other other requirements, and that they can fail to maintain
Speaker 7: the ship such that it has a catastrophic power failure.
Speaker 4: And crashes into the bridge.
Speaker 7: Because knowing that we're we don't actually have control is
Speaker 7: much more frightening to some of us than yes, there
Speaker 7: are evil people who do have control, right.
Speaker 6: And and knowing actually that sort of forces of oligarchy
Speaker 6: are really in control in this like haphazard like cocktail
Speaker 6: of different interests.
Speaker 3: I think that's you know, maybe the scarious.
Speaker 7: Thing, right exactly, because that's much harder to take on,
Speaker 7: or at least it's harder to accept then, because if
Speaker 7: you can, if you can find some QAnon type conspiracy here,
Speaker 7: then at least you can then tell yourself that you've
Speaker 7: kind of figured it out, rather than you live in
Speaker 7: a world where these oligarchs are are chipping away at
Speaker 7: your ability to you know, regulate safety in a way
Speaker 7: that just keeps people basically safe. And then, of course, uh,
Speaker 7: it being Twitter, the racism surfaced and bubbled all the
Speaker 7: way to the top. A couple a couple of tweets,
Speaker 7: you know, really ricocheted around. We can put up B
Speaker 7: two here, which is this is uh, this is Baltimore
Speaker 7: may Or Brand and Scott speaking at a press conference,
Speaker 7: and you had not just this account, but a decent
Speaker 7: number of them saying this is Baltimore's DEI mayor commenting
Speaker 7: on the collapse to Francis Scott keat Bridge, it's going
Speaker 7: to get so so much worse.
Speaker 4: Prepare accordingly?
Speaker 10: Uh?
Speaker 7: And then I think, uh, B five if you can
Speaker 7: throw B five up there. D I did this as
Speaker 7: another just another clown on Twitter, but it represented a
Speaker 7: reaction that that you did see.
Speaker 4: And because of Twitter's new.
Speaker 7: Kind of algorithmic efforts that where you can you know,
Speaker 7: pay to get your your racism boosted. Uh, it became
Speaker 7: a thing that people were you know, talking talking talking about.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 7: First of all, can I say, Brandon Scott, an illustrious
Speaker 7: graduate of my alma mater, Saint Mary's College of Maryland. Wow,
Speaker 7: I've been following his career, uh as he rose up
Speaker 7: through Baltimore politics proudly.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 7: He's class two thousand and six, so he was he
Speaker 7: was six years younger. He six years younger than me,
Speaker 7: but he would have overlapped my brother, who was class
Speaker 7: of vote four. Interesting, the same college. So Brandon Scott
Speaker 7: graduate of the best college in America, Saint Mary's College
Speaker 7: of Maryland.
Speaker 4: So you know, how dare anybody come at him?
Speaker 7: But also, uh, he there was nothing like he gave
Speaker 7: an eloquent performance. Uh it's like cold out, so he's
Speaker 7: got a jacket on, and like, what's what's your problem
Speaker 7: other than the fact that he's black and d e?
Speaker 7: I like, do do people think that a firm of
Speaker 7: action is required for there to be.
Speaker 4: A black mayor in Baltimore?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 4: Are people this stupid?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I mean it's a population of Baltimore is about sixty
Speaker 7: five percent. I think he won with like seventy five
Speaker 7: percent of the vote.
Speaker 6: I think it's just like, yes, I think unfortunately that
Speaker 6: conflation is now happening.
Speaker 4: That's what di I means to people now.
Speaker 6: Although I tend to blame like insist people who insist
Speaker 6: on affirmative action, as a lot of Black Americans do,
Speaker 6: for casting that like stereotype of putting people in that
Speaker 6: unfortunate position of like, oh, you're successful in black you
Speaker 6: must be a product of affirmative acts.
Speaker 7: Otherwise Baltimore would have just the greatest white mayor ever.
Speaker 4: What was the guy, the guy from the wire, Yeah,
Speaker 4: he would be great.
Speaker 6: But the DEI thing actually, at one point on that is,
Speaker 6: you know, the David serote a piece in the lever
Speaker 6: that you were just talking about. I think there's a
Speaker 6: really a very legitimate argument about DEI and American infrastructure,
Speaker 6: and like, I get that. I think we have funneled
Speaker 6: an absurd amount of resources that could have been spent
Speaker 6: in other places into some of these into some of
Speaker 6: these different initiatives, corporate initiatives, municipal initiatives, and I think
Speaker 6: our resources probably could have been better spent elsewhere, like
Speaker 6: millions billions of dollars.
Speaker 3: Just I think that is a very real thing.
Speaker 6: But I also think if people who are just sort
Speaker 6: of like throwing DEI out there constantly actually put as
Speaker 6: much effort and thought as Serda does into examining how
Speaker 6: corporate interests are like influencing this in a sort of
Speaker 6: financial way. There's even deeper elements to the story. I mean,
Speaker 6: as Saroda discovered in this case very quickly, he was
Speaker 6: able to put this story together that like, there are
Speaker 6: economic forces that you know, push and it's not to
Speaker 6: say that people aren't talking about the confluence of like
Speaker 6: aligarch and culture dei stuff, but in this case there
Speaker 6: are actual oligarchs that allow these things to happen. And
Speaker 6: we don't know the full story here yet. We do
Speaker 6: know that this boat had problems inspection recently in Chile,
Speaker 6: I think just in the last year. There are problems raised,
Speaker 6: not in.
Speaker 7: A crash into a peer in Brussels, I think, notre
Speaker 7: crashing to appear somewhere in Europe in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 6: And Conrad John Conrad was talking about from g captain
Speaker 6: points out, but it's not again, it's not uncommon for
Speaker 6: ships that fail different parts of their inspections to keep
Speaker 6: operating if they don't rise to the level that's you know,
Speaker 6: a serious threat. But that's the interesting part about this
Speaker 6: conversation on corporate interests is that for different corporations I
Speaker 6: think Boeing is a really good example some of these
Speaker 6: failures that can lead to loss of life, that can
Speaker 6: lead to huge infrastructure costs. We're not going to see
Speaker 6: all of the I mean, traffic in Baltimore is going
Speaker 6: to be a nightmare.
Speaker 3: For people for the foresee future.
Speaker 6: We're rerouting all of these car shipment, sugar, all of
Speaker 6: these things that go through the Port of Baltimore are
Speaker 6: going to be like routed on A ninety five, which
Speaker 6: is going to probably cause worse in traffic for.
Speaker 3: You know, regular people up and down the.
Speaker 6: Sort of a Cela corridor as it's called in the
Speaker 6: upcoming months. But the problem is the cost of doing
Speaker 6: business has become such that, you know, some of these
Speaker 6: major corporations sacrifice these potential calamities as just like a
Speaker 6: cost of doing business. You know, like it's this, it
Speaker 6: could happen, but we can save money, and it probably won't.
Speaker 6: If it does, we'll pay for it. We'll take the
Speaker 6: public relations hit because we can afford it, and that
Speaker 6: will allow us to keep doing business.
Speaker 7: And on your d iPoint, I have a slightly different
Speaker 7: takelethough you might agree with it to it, I think
Speaker 7: that there was an actual cost to Corporate America to
Speaker 7: maintaining the kind of WASP cartel that it had for
Speaker 7: so many times. There was actual racism for many decades
Speaker 7: in the leadership of corporate America, which which still exists,
Speaker 7: and made those corporations less effective because it coddled underperforming
Speaker 7: wasps and it kept out higher performing non wasps. What
Speaker 7: the way that the way that DEI plays plays into this, though,
Speaker 7: is too often you'll bring in a DEI consultant after
Speaker 7: you get accused of some type of racial injustice inside
Speaker 7: your corporation.
Speaker 4: And that will be your answer.
Speaker 7: Rather than making structural reforms that may make you an
Speaker 7: actually better corporation. It's people in power will say, all right, well,
Speaker 7: we're going to have these consultants come in for two
Speaker 7: days and you're going to examine your internalized racisms, which
Speaker 7: is much more comfortable for a corporation to ask you
Speaker 7: to do than to examine the externalized corporate racism at
Speaker 7: work or or what the corporation is actually doing.
Speaker 4: In the world.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so to the extent that it furthers the
Speaker 7: the kind of lack of diversity and the lack of
Speaker 7: racial justice inside an organization, it ends up it ends
Speaker 7: up being harmful, but then you have the reverse critique
Speaker 7: from actual racists who are like, oh, DEI just means
Speaker 7: black in my mind.
Speaker 6: I think there's another important point in all of this
Speaker 6: about so I I was asking my dad about the
Speaker 6: state of bridges overall in America, because that was a
Speaker 6: huge conversation yesterday, especially when before we totally knew what
Speaker 6: had happened. There's tons of speculation about the bridges. And
Speaker 6: he described it as he said, it's safe, but they
Speaker 6: need maintenance. That was like his overall take. The bridges
Speaker 6: in America are safe, but they generally need maintenance. And
Speaker 6: I think that's probably going to prove to have been
Speaker 6: true with the friends to Scott Key Bridge. It may
Speaker 6: have needed the cost of being retro fitted with giant fenders.
Speaker 6: Whether the fenders actually would have stopped that boat is
Speaker 6: a huge question. Like it's pretty it looks like a
Speaker 6: thing would have stopped the boat from causing that bridge
Speaker 6: if you hit the pier like that to collapse. That
Speaker 6: said John Conrad points out he quote tweeted somebody who
Speaker 6: found that at one point it just like an old
Speaker 6: It looks like it's an old newspaper blurb that that
Speaker 6: bridge could have actually been a tunnel. That some people
Speaker 6: said that this should have been a tunnel instead of
Speaker 6: a bridge, but the bridge was just easier, it was
Speaker 6: more cost effective at the time. And this is going
Speaker 6: all the way back to that.
Speaker 7: There you go, good call, like there already is a
Speaker 7: harbor tunnel. Maybe when they rebuild it, they'll do another
Speaker 7: harbor tunnel. The clip you saw Biden at the beginning
Speaker 7: was him saying that feds are going to pick this up.
Speaker 7: Nice if they found the singapore and billionaire and had
Speaker 7: him pay for that.
Speaker 6: Yes, it looks like, you know, the main questions here
Speaker 6: should be directed towards what happened with the ship, and
Speaker 6: that's where our focus should be going forward now. Still,
Speaker 6: as Baltimore rebuilds over the course of my gosh, I
Speaker 6: can't imagine how long this is going to take. That
Speaker 6: in and of itself is a big story. Conrad pointing
Speaker 6: out in another tweet that other countries can rebuild these
Speaker 6: types of this type of infrastructure much more quickly than
Speaker 6: we can at this point. But I mean, it's just
Speaker 6: our system is not optimizing the potential of our workers
Speaker 6: in the United States of our It's just it's not,
Speaker 6: and it hasn't been for some time.
Speaker 7: Your friend of the show, Matt Iglesias, had been joking
Speaker 7: earlier that the US should hire Hamas to like work
Speaker 7: on our subways. Given the effective kind of tunnel structures
Speaker 7: they built, have them do the Harbor tunnel. I mean,
Speaker 7: imagine what they could do without like having to smuggle
Speaker 7: everything in the impressive work, right.
Speaker 6: I don't know if I should dignify this with the rest.
Speaker 7: Anyway, Thank you to the control room for that one,
Speaker 7: because we've moved to all those elements all over the
Speaker 7: place I was around.
Speaker 4: You guys were on top of it, very much appreciated.
Speaker 4: Let's move on to Ron McDaniel.
Speaker 6: Let's move on to RFK JR R Junior. Okay, two
Speaker 6: friends of the show. It's easy to confuse. Who among
Speaker 6: us has not confused RFK Junior and Ron McDaniel. Big
Speaker 6: newsweek for both of them, Yes, indeed. But RFK Junior
Speaker 6: yesterday announced his vice presidential running mate. There were some
Speaker 6: interesting reactions that we're going to get to in a second,
Speaker 6: but let's start here with C one. This is a
Speaker 6: clip from the announcement RFK Junior made just yesterday.
Speaker 12: I'm so proud to introduce to you the next Vice
Speaker 12: President of the United States, my fellow lawyer, a brilliant scientist, technologist,
Speaker 12: fears warrior mom, Nicola shanahand.
Speaker 6: So Peter Hanby pointed out, this is C two. We
Speaker 6: can put it on the screen. Some reactions, just among
Speaker 6: RFK Junior's online based to this pick of Nicole Shanahan
Speaker 6: were immediately negative. One person said, Kirsten Cinema would have
Speaker 6: been like a million times better. Just one person said,
Speaker 6: Tulsi excellent exclamation points. Now, one person did say Nicole
Speaker 6: has a heart of gold. Someone said, terrible pick improves
Speaker 6: how meaningless words can be. This is some.
Speaker 3: Clear sexism there.
Speaker 6: Actually when it says, well, I'm not even going to
Speaker 6: read it, but Shanahan is right out of globalist central
Speaker 6: casting was another reaction. And you know, people might say
Speaker 6: that online reactions not representative of the broader population, which
Speaker 6: is absolutely online reaction, although in that case it's it
Speaker 6: is also true that he has a huge proportion of
Speaker 6: his supporters are the types of people that are frankly
Speaker 6: commenting on videos like we put out like he put
Speaker 6: out right there, So there is something representative about it
Speaker 6: in that sense. But Ryan, what did you make of
Speaker 6: the announcement yesterday?
Speaker 7: The person who said she's out of this like w
Speaker 7: E F Central Casting kind of hits the hits the
Speaker 7: nail on the head. It's the kind of person who
Speaker 7: was gravitating towards RFK Junior after he made his campaign
Speaker 7: focused on independent media. Basically, yes, you know, when went
Speaker 7: around the gatekeepers in the mainstream media.
Speaker 4: Uh right, smart, smart play.
Speaker 7: That kind of person does not like the profile of Nicole.
Speaker 4: Shanahan, who no so right.
Speaker 7: So the number one thing, as people said that they
Speaker 7: know her from is she was the husband Sorgey Brent,
Speaker 7: which is sound sexist to say, but in general that's correct,
Speaker 7: Like he's.
Speaker 6: Ultra powerful and famous. So yeah, the association I think
Speaker 6: is entirely fair.
Speaker 4: Right. And she's a patent attorney.
Speaker 7: I guarantee if I had a patent case that I needed,
Speaker 7: I couldn't do any better than her. I'm sure she's
Speaker 7: an incredible patent attorney, but thirty something patent attorney is
Speaker 7: generally not the kind of bio that we think of
Speaker 7: for Okay, well.
Speaker 4: That person should be therefore be vice president.
Speaker 7: Amusingly, from my perspective, like she funds all sorts of
Speaker 7: causes that I'm all about climate change stuff, progressive prosecutors,
Speaker 7: criminal justice, reform, reproductive justice, and so for if you're
Speaker 7: if you were kind of a Trump curious but didn't
Speaker 7: like Trump type of person who was then gravitating towards
Speaker 7: RFK Junior, a lot of those things are gonna are
Speaker 7: gonna turn you off from from her.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 7: The thing that she was in the press for was
Speaker 7: then the divorce from Sergey Brinn, which, because we can
Speaker 7: put this next element up on the screen, according to
Speaker 7: the Wall Street Journal, Elon Musk's friendship with Sergey Brin
Speaker 7: ruptured by alleged affair.
Speaker 4: Now, both Shanahan and.
Speaker 7: Musk have denied that there was an affair, but there's
Speaker 7: also been reporting that Musk like got down on one
Speaker 7: knee at a party and apologized to his good friend
Speaker 7: Sergei Brynn for it. They were divorced within weeks of it.
Speaker 7: It almost feels perfectly fitting for our time that the
Speaker 7: kind of choice of the independent space would be linked
Speaker 7: to billionaires and involved in all sorts of drama, because
Speaker 7: that kind of is what our kind of online politics is,
Speaker 7: you know, drama and billionaires.
Speaker 3: Actually that's a really good well to that point.
Speaker 6: I was actually going to say, it reminds me of
Speaker 6: the tension also between sort of like og Silicon Valley
Speaker 6: and post Obama Silicon Valley, where at first you see
Speaker 6: yourselves as like the pirates and the disruptors, and now
Speaker 6: it's like, well, you are now the man. It's not
Speaker 6: screw the man anymore, fight the man. It is you.
Speaker 3: You're the man.
Speaker 6: And to Ela Musk sort of walks that fine line
Speaker 6: in interesting way while like constantly criticizing US foreign policy
Speaker 6: but also being a major defense contractor and having all
Speaker 6: of these like various interests going on.
Speaker 3: But with Shanahan, the point.
Speaker 6: You made about how if you're someone that's uncomfortable with
Speaker 6: Trump is I think it could actually be a preview
Speaker 6: of the RFK Junior strategy to come and an example
Speaker 6: of why I think Biden is increasingly worried about RFK Junior.
Speaker 6: I know people didn't the DNC actually do like a
Speaker 6: press call yesterday amid the announcement, which would be unusual
Speaker 6: for a third party candidate to have. The DNC Liz
Speaker 6: Smith is running that effort now, right, Yeah, Like they've fancy.
Speaker 4: Third party effort.
Speaker 6: They've steered some real resources into this, and I think
Speaker 6: that's because he's around nine point nine percent I think
Speaker 6: in the RCP national average when you put Cornell West,
Speaker 6: who I think is that like two percent in the
Speaker 6: RCPN I average, and then there's another like one point
Speaker 6: something percent for Jill Stein in there. If that remained
Speaker 6: constant going into election day, and rf K Junior is
Speaker 6: able to pour vast resources into a state like Nevada
Speaker 6: where he's on the ballot, imagine Jill Stein, but Jill
Speaker 6: Stein with way more like a higher proportion of the
Speaker 6: vote in Pennsylvania in twenty sixteen, justin Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
Speaker 6: So we'll see, you know, ultimately how many states he's
Speaker 6: able to get on the ballot in. But I think,
Speaker 6: you know, him going with somebody that has real sort
Speaker 6: of progressive bonafides is a pretty interesting signal that he's
Speaker 6: going to make a real push for those voters. And
Speaker 6: I also have continue to have the theory that as
Speaker 6: soon as Donald Trump turns to RFK Junior in earnest
Speaker 6: like really starts pushing back on RFK Junior, if he's
Speaker 6: worried about losing some of his own supporters to him,
Speaker 6: that will also highlight RFK Junior's progressive bona fides, because,
Speaker 6: as you know as well as anybody, he was kind
Speaker 6: of a mainstream dude in progressive circles for a long time,
Speaker 6: someone that was like.
Speaker 7: He became fringe also with vaccine stuff, with vaccines smother conspiracy,
Speaker 7: but he.
Speaker 6: Was still showing up at the events.
Speaker 4: He was like in this persona grata.
Speaker 3: Yeah, persona grata. That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 6: And so I think it if Donald well, right, if
Speaker 6: Donald Trump starts talking about how r f K Junior
Speaker 6: is like an environmentalist whose pro regulation and pro medicare
Speaker 6: for all and all of that. I don't know what
Speaker 6: the Trump attacks will look like, although we've seen a
Speaker 6: little preview of it. That also reminds some potential Biden
Speaker 6: voters that urf K Junior has like decades of work
Speaker 6: in that space in ways that they might really like.
Speaker 6: So maybe it's maybe it's a smarter pick than people realize,
Speaker 6: because is he going to lose some of his hardcore
Speaker 6: fans over a weird vice presidential pick that they're unhappy with?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I would, I would think he would.
Speaker 7: The informed speculation though, of why would he do this.
Speaker 7: Number one answer that you've seen from people who have
Speaker 7: some clue on this is that when she went through
Speaker 7: her divorce publicly, it's known that she asked for a
Speaker 7: billion dollars went through arbitration.
Speaker 4: We don't know exactly what she got. We know that
Speaker 4: she got a lot of money.
Speaker 7: She financed the Super Bowl ad that RFK Junior later
Speaker 7: apologized for.
Speaker 4: Remember that one.
Speaker 7: But there is a you can call it a loophole
Speaker 7: in campaign finance that says that if you are on
Speaker 7: a ticket, you can spend an unlimited amount of your
Speaker 7: own money. So she could have from the outside done
Speaker 7: an RFK Junior super pack. They get they don't get
Speaker 7: favorable rates, they can't coordinate with the campaign with her
Speaker 7: on the ticket. If she gives a hundred million dollars
Speaker 7: to the campaign, the campaign can directly spend that hundred
Speaker 7: million dollars.
Speaker 4: So that is the number one benefit SHO offers.
Speaker 7: The second one is this looks like RFK Junior has
Speaker 7: long ago given up on the idea that he's going
Speaker 7: to win the presidency and is making sure that he
Speaker 7: will still be a palatable kind of social figure when
Speaker 7: he returns to Los Angeles and Silicon Valley after this
Speaker 7: to have somebody that is well regarded in that community
Speaker 7: as his running mate. I'm not sure if that calculation
Speaker 7: is correct, because if he well, different elements of Silicon Valley,
Speaker 7: different elements of LA have different hopes coming out of
Speaker 7: this presidential election. You know, some of them are fine
Speaker 7: with Trump, but the elements that are not fine with Trump,
Speaker 7: if they blame him for swinging the election to Trump,
Speaker 7: doesn't matter who his running mate's going to be, He's
Speaker 7: not gonna get those dinner party invites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting. That is really interesting because you'd think these.
Speaker 4: Are the risks that our public servants take them.
Speaker 6: Although I do I still maintain that people who are
Speaker 6: making fundamentally making protest votes are not making protest votes
Speaker 6: based on VP picks. But there are people with this sense.
Speaker 6: It can contribute to people making an argument that they
Speaker 6: trusted RFK Junior sort of anti establishment streak, and then
Speaker 6: when they.
Speaker 3: See his position on Israel or they see who he
Speaker 3: picks as a.
Speaker 6: VP candidate, it makes the it hurts his credibility as
Speaker 6: like an anti establishment guy, and so it can contribute
Speaker 6: to that broader narrative that a lot of people have
Speaker 6: started picking up on and that's frustrated a lot of
Speaker 6: potential RFK junior voters. Again, it's not a huge lights
Speaker 6: of the population, although I continue to think that it
Speaker 6: can be a huge part of some of these these
Speaker 6: key states and does pose a real threat to Biden's reelection.
Speaker 7: It's I do think there's a counterfactual history where he
Speaker 7: could have been a credible candidate if he if he
Speaker 7: flowed out of the RFK senior in anti war, if
Speaker 7: he carried that mantle.
Speaker 3: Which he tried to do until October, which he did.
Speaker 7: Which he did right with Ukraine and otherwise saying the
Speaker 7: US needs US, empire needs to you know, mind his
Speaker 7: business like that's a that plus like progressive domestic policy
Speaker 7: is is a potent combination for independent voters and for
Speaker 7: a lot of a lot of Democrats and Republicans who
Speaker 7: are not locked in on their party. But yeah, after
Speaker 7: October seventh, you know, he he happens to be a
Speaker 7: very strident Zionist who was out of the gate, you know,
Speaker 7: sales interviews here and elsewhere, who was out of the gate, unapologetically,
Speaker 7: unconditionally supportive of Israel and willing to give as much
Speaker 7: American support to Israel as possible, and so that that lane.
Speaker 4: Was no longer kind of available to him. But I think.
Speaker 7: There is a world with the combination of his name
Speaker 7: and that positioning that he could be polling in the
Speaker 7: thirties and then he's with three people in the race.
Speaker 7: Then you're you're you're in the ball game at that point,
Speaker 7: because then all these other people who reluctantly are voting
Speaker 7: for Trump or reluctantly are voting for Biden are like,
Speaker 7: oh wait, this is not a protest vote. Yeah, I
Speaker 7: can actually vote for this guy. But also the voice,
Speaker 7: the voice is I'm sorry. People don't want to hear
Speaker 7: that for four years and it's a health condition. It's
Speaker 7: terrible to say, but it's a huge obstacle for him.
Speaker 6: I'm just seeing a Charlie kirkweet that's upset about the
Speaker 6: land acknowledgment that the VP of ARFA Junior's VP announcement
Speaker 6: opened with. We kind of teased that earlier, but yes,
Speaker 6: a Native American tribe did give a land acknowledgment before
Speaker 6: they started, and this is indicative of and actually apparently
Speaker 6: that was at his campaign lunch too. According to Brent
Speaker 6: Share of the Daily Wire. This is I think indicative
Speaker 6: of the really tough road. It's sort of like what
Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders had to deal with with some of the
Speaker 6: cultural issues in twenty sixteen and then in twenty twenty,
Speaker 6: but it's on a much, much much like intensified scale,
Speaker 6: when you have someone like he's on independent media all
Speaker 6: the time, like openly criticizing, aggressively criticizing some of the
Speaker 6: culture warriors on the left. I agree, I mean he is.
Speaker 6: There have been some polls that find him around thirty
Speaker 6: percent or higher with young voters that could have been
Speaker 6: reflected in the broader population.
Speaker 3: I still have a lot of respect for the campaign
Speaker 3: that he's running.
Speaker 6: I'm curious to see what kind of course correction, if
Speaker 6: any course correction, or even just pouring more money into
Speaker 6: those nostalgic ads. I'm curious to see what's ahead. I
Speaker 6: still think he's even all of these divisions. The demand
Speaker 6: for a protest vote right now, even if it's literally uncommitted,
Speaker 6: just the bland phrase uncommitted, is so high that he
Speaker 6: could do a lot of damage to Biden.
Speaker 7: Now, there was also a chance that he might have
Speaker 7: discovered a preternatural political talent who is going to take
Speaker 7: the world by storm. Let's roll a little bit of
Speaker 7: Nicole Shanahan's speech and let you decide whether or not
Speaker 7: you think he discovered that people talk.
Speaker 10: About my age. It's true. I will be the youngest
Speaker 10: vice president of America history. Let me tell you why
Speaker 10: so many of us young people have turned away from politics.
Speaker 10: It's because we lost hope that change would ever come
Speaker 10: from inside the system. After all, which party wins with
Speaker 10: promises of hope and change or to drain the swamp?
Speaker 10: Things proceed as usual, declining bit by bit each passion
Speaker 10: passing year. So that's the reason. But the other reason
Speaker 10: is that we can't stand the phoniness anymore. We can't
Speaker 10: stand the lies, we can't stand the inauthenticity. And that's
Speaker 10: why Bobby Kennedy leads in all the polls among young people.
Speaker 10: We are hearing our voice in.
Speaker 4: His that as effective as speech as I deliver.
Speaker 6: Up there, I think it's a youth uprising.
Speaker 7: That's right, say if she counts as youth, so do
Speaker 7: I Let me tell you what the youths are thinking about.
Speaker 6: Go to Ryan for all of your gen Z pop
Speaker 6: culture questions. There you go, all right, should we move
Speaker 6: on to Ronal McDaniel.
Speaker 4: Let's do it.
Speaker 6: Hell of a week for Ronald McDaniel, Hell of a
Speaker 6: week over at NBC News.
Speaker 4: Ronal McDaniel's out.
Speaker 7: We put up this first element here that one of
Speaker 7: the briefest tenures as an NBC News analyst in NBC
Speaker 7: News analyst history. I would think she did one interview
Speaker 7: with Kristen Welker, a bit of a grilling on the
Speaker 7: Sunday Show, and that was it. Now she'll still get paid,
Speaker 7: is my understanding her entire contract because they don't.
Speaker 6: That's what happened to Magan Kelly two.
Speaker 7: Yes, because they don't have a justification other than oh,
Speaker 7: that was a mistake.
Speaker 3: It turns out employs are mad.
Speaker 4: Terms out everybody is mad about this.
Speaker 6: Internally, nothing changed, Yeah, Like Ryan McDaniel didn't say anything new.
Speaker 6: That's agree to us that anybody's taking issue with it
Speaker 6: was Chuck Tudd and Joscarborough have said basically they would
Speaker 6: have objected before.
Speaker 3: The announcement was even made. That's out there in the open.
Speaker 6: So it's a pretty good case for no real reason
Speaker 6: to drop the contract in a way that would take
Speaker 6: funning away from her. So there's an interesting part of
Speaker 6: Rachel Maddow's long rant about the hiring of Rona McDaniels
Speaker 6: that now in light of McDaniel's firing, I think is
Speaker 6: perhaps worth revisiting. This is Rachel Mattow talking specifically about
Speaker 6: the distinction between NBC and MSNBC on her show earlier
Speaker 6: this week.
Speaker 13: It's my understanding that MSNBC's leadership did not object to
Speaker 13: Ronal McDaniel being hired by NBC News when the matter
Speaker 13: first arose, But when the hiring was announced and MSNBC
Speaker 13: staff essentially unanimously and instantly expressed outrage, our leadership at
Speaker 13: MSNBC heard us, understood, and adjusted course. We were told
Speaker 13: this weekend, in clear terms, ron A McDaniel will not
Speaker 13: be on our air. Roni McDaniel will not be on MSNBC.
Speaker 13: And I say that and give you that level of detail,
Speaker 13: because there has been an effort since by other parts
Speaker 13: of the company to muddy that up in the press
Speaker 13: and make it seem like that's not what happened at MSNBC.
Speaker 4: I can assure you that is what happened at MSNBC.
Speaker 5: If you care what I think about.
Speaker 13: This, I will tell you the fact that ms McDaniel
Speaker 13: is on the payroll at NBC News.
Speaker 4: To me, that is inexplicable.
Speaker 6: I mean, you wouldn't.
Speaker 5: You wouldn't.
Speaker 4: You wouldn't hire.
Speaker 13: Like a wise guy. You wouldn't hire a made man
Speaker 13: like a mobster to work at a DA's office, right,
Speaker 13: you wouldn't hire a pickpocket to work as a TSA screener.
Speaker 13: And so I find the decision to put her.
Speaker 4: On the payroll inexplicable.
Speaker 6: Okay, Right, something really interesting there that gets to the
Speaker 6: heart of the story where she's saying, you wouldn't hire
Speaker 6: a pickpocket to work out I think she says TSA
Speaker 6: in the clip. But you know, in journalism you would
Speaker 6: interview the pickpocket, right, That's kind of part of the job.
Speaker 6: If you have a massive surge in retail theft, which
Speaker 6: some cities actually have been dealing with recently, you might
Speaker 6: want to get the perspective of the thieves. So even
Speaker 6: if I buy her comparison, and by the way, I
Speaker 6: would apply that to literally all politicians they constantly. Joy
Speaker 6: Reid said on MSNBC, we want more Republicans on MSNBC,
Speaker 6: give me more. This is a real quote. Adam Kinsinger's
Speaker 6: and Liz Cheney's also pickpockets. By the way, Nicole Wallace,
Speaker 6: who lied about the Iraq War for the Bush administration,
Speaker 6: hosts a show on MSNBC. So while we are drawing
Speaker 6: red lines in the sand at anybody who could potentially
Speaker 6: be the pickpocket, come on, give me a break. I'm
Speaker 6: not sure that MSNBC or NBC News is in any
Speaker 6: position to do that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and she also said, you wouldn't have the mafia
Speaker 7: come and work with the prosecutors. But actually, when you
Speaker 7: set up the SEC they had Joe Kennedy run it,
Speaker 7: who was mob linked and was brought in because he.
Speaker 4: Was one of the most corrupt kind of traders.
Speaker 6: You can say that you're also Irish.
Speaker 7: There you go otherwise. Yeah, exactly, it's in the family.
Speaker 7: But look at the people who are complaining. Joe Scarborough,
Speaker 7: Republican Congressman Mika Brazinski, the daughter of Spring News to Brazinski,
Speaker 7: one of the most bloodthirsty kind of imperialists that the
Speaker 7: that our government produced in the twentieth century.
Speaker 4: And yeah, like you said, Nicole Wallace, who George W.
Speaker 7: Bush, like all of those amaz NBC viewers at one
Speaker 7: point were chanting Bush lied, people died and Nicole Wallace
Speaker 7: was the one writing those lies and.
Speaker 4: Was the spokesperson for those lies.
Speaker 7: You've got Jensaki, who was Obama and Biden partisan spokesperson.
Speaker 7: You know, most of spokespeople while wind up going to
Speaker 7: one network or another. So clearly what they're saying is
Speaker 7: that that's okay. But Ronald McDaniel, this is beyond the
Speaker 7: pale basically because she was vaguely supportive or you know,
Speaker 7: do you tell me how supportive she was of kind
Speaker 7: of Trump's like January sixth insurrectionary activities.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what it all comes down to. This is
Speaker 6: how Jensaki actually explained that. Jensaki came out and addressed
Speaker 6: head on the.
Speaker 4: I'm a hack.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she was like, you know what, I'm here, right,
Speaker 6: She was like, you people have pointed out that I
Speaker 6: work at me see and she was like, but it's
Speaker 6: different because of.
Speaker 3: Election denialism and ran I think.
Speaker 7: We've been circulated a clip of her pretending that the
Speaker 7: US never interferes with South American elections.
Speaker 3: Perfect.
Speaker 7: I mean, you can just there's such a wealth those elections.
Speaker 4: You can deny the.
Speaker 6: Things that they said. I saw clips going around the
Speaker 6: things that they said that you know, maybe they had
Speaker 6: good reason for saying them back in the early days
Speaker 6: of the pandemic, but that were I mean, Fauci is
Speaker 6: a great example, Fauci himself, like Nicole Wallace, Fauci, Adam Kinziger,
Speaker 6: Liz Cheney, I mean, people who have trafficked in disinformation
Speaker 6: period that we don't draw the red line at. We're
Speaker 6: drawing the red line at this Trump insurrection, like well
Speaker 6: not even the insurrection, but like the Trump election denialism
Speaker 6: as they call it, as Jensaki I think directly called
Speaker 6: it because RONI McDaniel flirted with it. The bad news
Speaker 6: for MSNBC is that Ron McDaniel is like moderately pro
Speaker 6: Trump compared to a lot of the Republican base, not
Speaker 6: all Republican voters, but Ron McDaniel I think, in her
Speaker 6: interview with Kristen Walker said something so gross. I don't
Speaker 6: know if you caught this part where and this is
Speaker 6: before she was fired, it was her first interview. It's
Speaker 6: when she's, you know, wants that three hundred thousand dollars,
Speaker 6: wants to make a good impression, wants to get invited
Speaker 6: to the NBC Christmas Party or whatever, saying you know,
Speaker 6: when you are head of the r n C, when
Speaker 6: you work for the party, you just got to take
Speaker 6: one for the team. And I can now be more myself.
Speaker 6: That's what she said, which is code for I lied
Speaker 6: for years to make Yes, I lied professionally for the
Speaker 6: power and the money, and now I can get the
Speaker 6: power and the money.
Speaker 3: But without lying.
Speaker 7: Why why would MSNBC viewers or NBC viewers want her
Speaker 7: actual thoughts? Like who cares what her actual thoughts are
Speaker 7: to the extent that she's remotely interesting? Yeah, it's because
Speaker 7: of her access to power. Yeah, and because of the
Speaker 7: insurrectionary support, Like that's those are the those are the
Speaker 7: kinds of things that actually matter.
Speaker 4: Like what Ron McDaniel actually thinks about X, Y or
Speaker 4: Z issue is. I can't I can't begin.
Speaker 7: To imagine why that would be remotely interesting to anybody.
Speaker 6: Yes, they actually should have They should have the guts
Speaker 6: to hire somebody who actually makes the journalism.
Speaker 4: Worthwhile or just interview them. Like that's the funniest thing.
Speaker 7: Like you want Republicans or Democrats on your channel, right,
Speaker 7: just call them and they will come on because you
Speaker 7: have millions of people watching you.
Speaker 4: You don't actually have to pay them.
Speaker 6: It reminds me of The New York Times hiring James
Speaker 6: Bennett to run their opinion section so that he could
Speaker 6: bring more conservative voices on them, running a conservative piece
Speaker 6: by Tom Cotton, and then freaking firing James Bennett over it.
Speaker 6: This is the dumbest thing in the world. It's because
Speaker 6: they can't figure out their business model, Like the New
Speaker 6: York Times hasn't realized that it now has to be.
Speaker 6: Instead of being like the paper of record that's responsive
Speaker 6: to this broadswath of the public that reads it around
Speaker 6: the country, they're responsive to like the NPR topey crowd.
Speaker 3: Which creates a different business incentive.
Speaker 6: Like that's just a different You're not doing neutral news
Speaker 6: for all of America. In the new business model where
Speaker 6: mass media is dying, you're responsive to a different group
Speaker 6: of people. And so for the sake of like the journalism,
Speaker 6: the quote sacred airwaves that that's an actual just scription
Speaker 6: from Nicole Wallace, they purport to care about. You know,
Speaker 6: you would want to have someone even more hardcore.
Speaker 3: Than Rono McDaniel.
Speaker 6: You would want to have like an actual Trump twenty
Speaker 6: twenty election with stolen type of person on the show.
Speaker 6: Because if you're confident in you're fast, Steve, get on
Speaker 6: that you can. But in all serious that's like normalize
Speaker 6: the Steve Bannon on NBC because that's people don't need
Speaker 6: to be protected. What they need is to trust that
Speaker 6: the people who are saying Steve Bannon is wrong because
Speaker 6: of A, B and C are themselves telling the truth
Speaker 6: and are that those those disputes with Steve Bannon are
Speaker 6: rooted in something real. And now nobody trusts anyone. So
Speaker 6: when Steve Bannon says something that's wrong, it's like.
Speaker 3: Well, who do you trust? Do you trust him?
Speaker 6: Do you trust the people who are also wrong, who
Speaker 6: are saying he's wrong? Nobody knows who to trust. And
Speaker 6: one good way to build rebuild trust is to actually
Speaker 6: like talk to people and figure that stuff out. And yes, agreed,
Speaker 6: we solved the problem. Frond see, we do have one
Speaker 6: final element we can put up this screen.
Speaker 7: This is and relatedly, by the way, the biggest gift
Speaker 7: to Trump has been as deep platforming from liberal agree media.
Speaker 6: And here's an example of corporate media not learning that
Speaker 6: lesson lesson. This is from Sarah Fisher at Axios last night.
Speaker 6: She reported that Caesar Conde of NBC Universal he's the
Speaker 6: chairman of the group, took full responsibility.
Speaker 3: He said he approved.
Speaker 6: Ron McDaniel's hiring, so that went all the way up,
Speaker 6: though unfortunately apparently not to Joe and Mika they had
Speaker 6: no say in it. But you're right, Ryan, this massive
Speaker 6: effort to say, like we have guilt about Donald Trump
Speaker 6: being elected in twenty sixteen, we think people need to
Speaker 6: be protected from Trump. We're not going to air his rallies.
Speaker 6: We're not going to let him say whatever the hell
Speaker 6: he wants to on Twitter or Facebook whatever. It has
Speaker 6: given so much credibility to Trump's claims of censorship.
Speaker 3: He is really extreme.
Speaker 7: And the more normally people see of Trump, the less
Speaker 7: they like him. The more he's in their face, the
Speaker 7: less go less they appreciate him. And when he's at
Speaker 7: a distance, you're like, oh, well, that guy kind of
Speaker 7: funny and wages were good.
Speaker 6: True.
Speaker 7: But then he's get back in your face, You're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 7: that's why I didn't like that guy. But the liberals,
Speaker 7: by keeping him off of Twitter and Facebook and kind
Speaker 7: of keeping his antics away from people's faces, have actually
Speaker 7: done the thing that Trump's advisors had failed to do,
Speaker 7: which is to get Trump to just cool it and
Speaker 7: stop being such a freak all the time. So he
Speaker 7: gets to be a freak all the time, but people
Speaker 7: don't see the freak outs.
Speaker 6: Yeah it's is this a Cory lewandowskiar State Bandon quote? Like,
Speaker 6: let Trump be Trump, don't try to make Trump someone else.
Speaker 6: That was like the Trump campaign.
Speaker 3: Motto, but it should also be the anti Trump motto,
Speaker 3: because letting Trump be Trump is good.
Speaker 6: Actually more powerful, And if you have a good like
Speaker 6: if you're working with Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, it
Speaker 6: might be harder to control the opposition to Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: But most of the country doesn't like Donald Trump. So
Speaker 6: let Trump be Trump, and you just focus on doing
Speaker 6: a better job as the anti Trump side instead of
Speaker 6: clinging to the crutch of censorship and disinformation.
Speaker 7: Yeap, all right, So now we're going to move on
Speaker 7: to the segment that I've been waiting for because I
Speaker 7: am genuinely curious what the heck is going on on
Speaker 7: conservative Twitter. I have some sense that it has something
Speaker 7: to do with this Babylon b.
Speaker 4: Article.
Speaker 7: So if you can put up this e one, they
Speaker 7: put out a headline the white race must maintain our
Speaker 7: genetic purity, says Inbred man over an image of a
Speaker 7: inbred man with a Nazi flag and a Confederate flag
Speaker 7: behind him inbread. Confederate supporters apparently took extraordinary offense to
Speaker 7: this or something, and so maybe this isn't even the
Speaker 7: thing that prompted this meltdown on conservative Twitter.
Speaker 4: I don't know. We put up E.
Speaker 7: Two and then and then E three. Oh yeah, so here, well,
Speaker 7: so here, here's E two. You got people unfollowed discusting organization.
Speaker 7: The Babylon b is is run by looks like Stara
Speaker 7: David there who often lashing out against Christians, like just
Speaker 7: the anti semitism and white nationalism just on display. Angry
Speaker 7: at the Babylon b I put up the next one
Speaker 7: there at and you've got Ali BETSTUCKI who's been on
Speaker 7: this program. There is no way to explain to a
Speaker 7: normal person what's happening on conservative Twitter right now. Chris Rufo,
Speaker 7: also been on this program, says it's getting insane.
Speaker 4: We have a problem in the right.
Speaker 7: The economics of online discourse are increasingly at odds with
Speaker 7: forming and mobilizing a successful political movement. I'm skeptical that
Speaker 7: they're talking just about the Babylon b thing. I know
Speaker 7: there was the Candice Owen's Daily wire stuff. Chris Rufo
Speaker 7: later says that Tucker's show, by getting taken away, took
Speaker 7: away kind of a north star that helped to organize
Speaker 7: right wing discourse.
Speaker 4: But yeah, what, what's what's going on? What's all the
Speaker 4: drama about?
Speaker 6: So I work very hard not to have deep intimate
Speaker 6: understanding of Twitter beefs, but I will say unless I
Speaker 6: think that they're relevant in some ways, and there may
Speaker 6: be an argument that this is relevant in some ways.
Speaker 6: I think Rufo's point about the economics of online incentives
Speaker 6: or the incentives of yeah, and I actually think this
Speaker 6: is something that left has been dealing with for a
Speaker 6: really long time in ways that you're very familiar with,
Speaker 6: because it's.
Speaker 7: I have YouTubers who like have entire subchannels just like
Speaker 7: about my hair.
Speaker 6: Right. Yes, again, speaking of things that are relevant to
Speaker 6: the average American.
Speaker 3: We kind of get to the bottom of war stuff.
Speaker 6: Yeah, stuff, But it reminds me of how I felt
Speaker 6: during the like force the boat whirlwind that absolutely consumed
Speaker 6: the online left. And again, I actually think they're some
Speaker 6: that was a very.
Speaker 4: Legitimate spial dispute, yeah, right.
Speaker 6: And sometimes I think things are online. Things that are
Speaker 6: legitimate disputes among organizers in the grassroots are also online,
Speaker 6: so they get dismissed as being just online beefs instead
Speaker 6: of real representative ones. This one, I don't know how
Speaker 6: representative it is of anything broader except what Rufo said
Speaker 6: that these conversations online are making it really hard for
Speaker 6: conservative media conservative activists to focus on what matters, because
Speaker 6: it puts you in a bubble. If a lot of
Speaker 6: your work is being conducted on Twitter, you're just on
Speaker 6: a bubble where the incentives are totally different for what
Speaker 6: you talk about how you talk about it, as opposed
Speaker 6: to like appealing broadly to the American public. So I
Speaker 6: definitely don't think it's unique to the right. I think
Speaker 6: the right it didn't learn from the online left and
Speaker 6: has now leaned fully into the influencer space without taking
Speaker 6: some of those lessons to heart. Like even back in
Speaker 6: the day, young Turks, you know, you definitely remember this.
Speaker 6: It just they they had like the beef they were
Speaker 6: in on the sort of online beef economy before anyone
Speaker 6: kind of you know, you had these like warring YouTube
Speaker 6: channels going back and forth and the Twitter beefs like
Speaker 6: this is this goes back a long way, you know,
Speaker 6: to the dawn of the new media ecosystem on YouTube
Speaker 6: and Twitter.
Speaker 7: Before that, like radio radio hosts on the same channel
Speaker 7: used to have management tell them, okay, now you two
Speaker 7: hosts are fighting for the next two weeks because that
Speaker 7: would bring in that would bring in the ratings.
Speaker 4: But is the current meltdown more about Canice Ellen's or like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's a Babylon b thing. Yeah, I
Speaker 6: think that so the Babylon Bee for what it's worth,
Speaker 6: I love them and they are equal opportunity. Like they
Speaker 6: I would be tempted on another account to like to
Speaker 6: see that as kind of classist, but it's that.
Speaker 7: Was one of the first like ones that approached being
Speaker 7: funny that I'd say, I wouldn't quite call it funny,
Speaker 7: but at least it was like, all right, that's an
Speaker 7: attempted big funny.
Speaker 6: They're not all winners. They also they started as like
Speaker 6: a really inter nice scene. Uh, intern ice scene is
Speaker 6: sort of I didn't even mean that as a pun,
Speaker 6: but like a real inter nice scene mockery of like
Speaker 6: evangelical subculture, and it was really funny or like even
Speaker 6: just like Christian subculture was it was actually really funny
Speaker 6: on those those types of along those lines, and yeah,
Speaker 6: they're not all winners, but they have some genuinely very
Speaker 6: biting and funny stuff that mocks conservatives, mocks the left,
Speaker 6: mocks rich people, mocks poor people, mocks everyone. So I
Speaker 6: don't the replies to that were taking issue with alleged like.
Speaker 3: I mean, these we really pretty bigoted.
Speaker 6: There were some pretty bigoted replies saying that there's just
Speaker 6: run by a bunch of Zionists, and some people were
Speaker 6: outright saying Jews. And this is a continuation of the
Speaker 6: discourse over Canvas Owens and her departure from the Daily Wire,
Speaker 6: which saw obviously Jewish leadership at the Daily Wire, from
Speaker 6: Ben Shapiro to you know, Andrew Clavin who talks about
Speaker 6: he's ethnically Jewish and is very proud of that, although
Speaker 6: he's Christian now. Like it was just a pretty ridiculous
Speaker 6: like I don't even know, and the Daily Wire feeds
Speaker 6: into it, I think to some extent by putting out statements.
Speaker 6: I actually kind of disagree with their decision to do that.
Speaker 6: Like you can just things can just happen and you
Speaker 6: can kind of move on, you.
Speaker 3: Know, what I mean.
Speaker 6: But it's in t Rufo's point though, the economics of
Speaker 6: Twitter makes everybody think that they they kind of have
Speaker 6: to comment on everything because you're getting piled on.
Speaker 3: And is that good for the brand? Is that good
Speaker 3: for your ability to make arguments?
Speaker 6: That's the big question I think that is relevant. It
Speaker 6: is I think very much a continuation though, of the
Speaker 6: Candice Owns discourse from last week, which it's a tough
Speaker 6: one for the Conserveed movie. You were talking before we
Speaker 6: started filming about a poll that found what's thirty percent
Speaker 6: Republican opposition to the ongoing war in Gaza.
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, seventy new Gallup poll after the Flower masker
Speaker 7: found Democrats now against Israeli.
Speaker 4: War seventy five to eighteen. But yes, thirty percent of Republicans.
Speaker 7: It was like something with fifty five thirty five among
Speaker 7: independents against it.
Speaker 4: But as many as I think it.
Speaker 7: Was, thirty percent of yes, Republicans are against that war.
Speaker 7: So that's a non trivial chunk of the of the
Speaker 7: electorate there.
Speaker 4: My own guess on the broader level is a couple
Speaker 4: of things.
Speaker 7: One is that I think Twitter actually did the conservative
Speaker 7: movement of favor by elevating some of the more out
Speaker 7: there woke stuff and keeping out a lot of these
Speaker 7: kind of Nazis and pepe frogs. So by suspending and
Speaker 7: censoring those Nazis and Confederate sympathizers, I think they actually
Speaker 7: did the kind of conservative Twitter movement generally a favor
Speaker 7: by not having them engaged, not making them such an
Speaker 7: element of it. By Musk allowing them not just to
Speaker 7: come back, but then to pay to amplify their stuff.
Speaker 4: Is similar to what we were talking about earlier in the
Speaker 4: way that.
Speaker 7: Liberals have done Trump a favor by getting rid of him,
Speaker 7: by keeping him off of some of these platforms. So Twitter,
Speaker 7: by kicking kicking the Nazis off, I think did a
Speaker 7: favor to conservatives. And so now what's happened under Musk
Speaker 7: is that almost all of those liberals either have left Twitter,
Speaker 7: are not posting as much or refusing.
Speaker 4: To pay the eight bucks, ten bucks, twelve bucks, whatever
Speaker 4: it is now, and so.
Speaker 7: They're not showing up in the verified feeds of conservatives,
Speaker 7: and so they're only seeing other conservatives, and it's becoming
Speaker 7: more like truth social like you go on truth, you're
Speaker 7: not true social.
Speaker 4: Right anyway on true Soli.
Speaker 7: It was just a bunch of people accusing each other
Speaker 7: of being pedophiles because there's no liberals to own, and
Speaker 7: if there's no libs to own, you just then just
Speaker 7: fight each other. I kind of disagree, like threads are
Speaker 7: like on the left, I kind.
Speaker 6: Of disagree with the point about the pepees because I think,
Speaker 6: just like from an inside perspective and the conservative sphere,
Speaker 6: there was less consternation and handringing about the Pepees when
Speaker 6: they were on Twitter, because it was easy for everyone to.
Speaker 3: Just be like this is weird, like these people are weird.
Speaker 3: It was just the social.
Speaker 6: You. It replicated the social dynamics of regular life, and
Speaker 6: then you're just like okay, free, like please stop spewing
Speaker 6: this anti semitism, like outrank anti semitism into people's feeds.
Speaker 6: I'm gonna mock you, I'm gonna you know, ignore you. Whatever.
Speaker 6: So I don't I think it's an interesting point, although
Speaker 6: that's my impulse on that now. I think a lot
Speaker 6: of conservatives have been in a sort of bubble on
Speaker 6: the Israel stuff, not just conservatives, like people in general.
Speaker 6: And because this is a war that's playing out on
Speaker 6: social media, there's something very powerful and this is why
Speaker 6: I encourage, you know, as a again someone who disagrees
Speaker 6: with you know, a lot of I think our audience
Speaker 6: on this question of Israel I still one of the
Speaker 6: things I think has been really detrimental and kind of
Speaker 6: the ways that Trump was talking about, but even deeper
Speaker 6: to the like Israel's public relations effort just plainly is
Speaker 6: when there's a lack of transparency and people find information
Speaker 6: that's contrary to what they're being told, that's contrary to propaganda,
Speaker 6: that's extremely powerful and it makes people think. It makes
Speaker 6: people question Israel period. So instead of people just saying, well,
Speaker 6: Israel is you know, engaged in this wartime propaganda and
Speaker 6: is really wrong about what happened in this instant, it
Speaker 6: makes you question literally everything that Israel has done because
Speaker 6: people are like, man, I've been lied to about our support.
Speaker 6: I've been lied to about from the river to the sea.
Speaker 6: I've been this is this is not what I'm hearing.
Speaker 6: And that's powerful. That's extremely powerful. And I think some
Speaker 6: of what's playing out in the conservative movement right now.
Speaker 3: Is people who follow new media really closely.
Speaker 6: I know we have like a lot of conservative viewers
Speaker 6: of this show, Learning New information that you just don't hear,
Speaker 6: you know, in in people who certain the circles of
Speaker 6: people who are ardently pro Israel for some very good reason,
Speaker 6: you know, descended from people who fled there and found
Speaker 6: refuge there before the Holocaust, during the Holocaust, after the Holocaust.
Speaker 6: You know, it's that when there is no transparency, it
Speaker 6: makes the contrary information even more powerful in ways that
Speaker 6: are counterproductive. And I feel like that some of what's
Speaker 6: playing out right now.
Speaker 7: I don't know how exactly this fits in, but I
Speaker 7: wanted to add because I think it feels related. So
Speaker 7: last night, there was a special election in Alabama, which
Speaker 7: you may have followed. It was a house district in
Speaker 7: the kind of in the Huntsville area. So in twenty
Speaker 7: twenty two, Republicans won that seat by seven points, and
Speaker 7: it consistently this is Trump this is a red district.
Speaker 7: This time the Democrat won by nearly twenty five points.
Speaker 4: Then this is just.
Speaker 7: Not long after the IVF ruling kind of rocked in
Speaker 7: Alabama politics, and it feels like there's something related here,
Speaker 7: that there is a segment of the right that is
Speaker 7: coming into contact with the consequences of.
Speaker 4: Their own rhetoric and.
Speaker 7: Success that is causing them then huge, huge fallout.
Speaker 6: That's interesting. Yeah, I mean Tucker Carlson recently said that
Speaker 6: he was wrong. I think he said this on Lex
Speaker 6: Friedman show, that he was wrong about US imperialism. That
Speaker 6: he's like a child of the Cold War era and
Speaker 6: it was sort of doggedly pro us and in that
Speaker 6: foil with anti communism, like in that binary.
Speaker 4: He wanted to join the CIA.
Speaker 3: Yes, Putin said.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he recently said, you know, he's looked back
Speaker 6: on all of that history, and I think that reckoning
Speaker 6: is happening with about thirty percent of the Republican base.
Speaker 6: Like actually it kind of matches up to what that
Speaker 6: Pole found about support for the war Gaza that I
Speaker 6: do think that there's this big reckoning that's happening, and
Speaker 6: I think it's going to push people in some really
Speaker 6: unhealthy directions into, for example, rank anti semitism, following for instance,
Speaker 6: Candice Omens down whatever rabbit hole she chooses on any
Speaker 6: given day, and flirting with bigotry. I think it's going
Speaker 6: to lead some people in really good directions, which means
Speaker 6: that the conservative movement or conservatives more broadly, hopefully at
Speaker 6: one point the Republican Party would have a more nuanced
Speaker 6: approach to foreign policy than this sort of Cold War
Speaker 6: binary you're with us or against us, and any person
Speaker 6: that flirts with communism in any part of the globe
Speaker 6: must be eradicated by the CIA or American forces or
Speaker 6: we should sick Samantha Powers on them what happens. So anyway, yeah,
Speaker 6: I think the economics of online discourse though that broader point.
Speaker 6: I think it's been really unhealthy for American politics. And
Speaker 6: I have people who remind me, you know, what it
Speaker 6: was like to cover politics before Twitter, and say, listen,
Speaker 6: it was actually way harder to get different information in
Speaker 6: different perspectives, and it wasn't impossible. Just Twitter does make
Speaker 6: it easy in ways that we take for granted. At
Speaker 6: the same time, it also puts virtually every person who
Speaker 6: works in politics and who is in power in a
Speaker 6: giant bubble because they're constantly exposed to the algorithm, and
Speaker 6: the algorithm incentivizes uh, you know, extremness or like extreme
Speaker 6: perspectives and disagreement division over anything else. And that's warping,
Speaker 6: distorting the way that powerful people see the world.
Speaker 7: All right, Well, up next, we're going to have ashesh
Speaker 7: Prashar from the No Taxation for Genocide campaign, which has
Speaker 7: been surprisingly successful in the United Kingdom, is going to
Speaker 7: break down that for us.
Speaker 4: Stick around all right.
Speaker 7: Up next is a sheesh for Sharp and they no
Speaker 7: tax for Genocide campaign, Ashish, thank you so.
Speaker 4: Much for joining us here, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 7: All right, so break down this campaign for us? What
Speaker 7: does what does no tax for Genocide mean?
Speaker 1: I think it's important to set the stage a little
Speaker 1: bit on this why this is actually legal for people
Speaker 1: in the UK. You know, thirty four thousand civilians have
Speaker 1: been killed, one point two million people have been forcibly removed.
Speaker 1: These numbers sound eerily familiar, but they're not actually Gaza.
Speaker 1: That's the Bosnian genocide. And today in Gaza we're seeing
Speaker 1: over forty thousand, we passed thirty four thousand number. We've
Speaker 1: seen two million people displaced, countless number of people injured,
Speaker 1: as well as bombed and staffed Palestinians and the US
Speaker 1: is eight and US and UK in this case of
Speaker 1: aided and embedded in those crimes, the ICJ have ruled
Speaker 1: it ap plausible genocide and only yesterday I think Francesca
Speaker 1: Albany is the UN Special Rapperture basically confirmed it was
Speaker 1: a genocide, and no matter what the State Department says,
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like a reputable source right now because
Speaker 1: they've in fact been lying for six months, because we've
Speaker 1: had countless human rights organizations, scholars in this space, and
Speaker 1: even frankly survivors of Bosnia call this a genocide.
Speaker 5: And the reason that's important is because none of.
Speaker 1: This works and as that is actually deemed a genocide
Speaker 1: of crimes against humanity. See the law in we've discovered
Speaker 1: as power that can be used on behalf of this struggle.
Speaker 1: It can be wielded in service off this political movement
Speaker 1: and the actually liberation of Palestinians. So the UK has
Speaker 1: specifically aided in war crimes. Funding war crimes is illegal
Speaker 1: and taxation is not exempt under UK law. This campaign,
Speaker 1: which launched on the fourteenth of March, a campaign that's
Speaker 1: based on UK statute law specifically, not going to get
Speaker 1: overly legal about it, so I'll keep this simple. But
Speaker 1: the ICC Act which makes it a criminal offense for
Speaker 1: anyone in the UK, personal organization or institution to engage
Speaker 1: in war crimes or crimes against humanity. The Terrorism Act
Speaker 1: in two thousand also does not exclude taxation in its
Speaker 1: criminalization of funding of terror and mass atrocities. And that
Speaker 1: is how people can legally withhold their money. And remember
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be clear, they still pay their taxes,
Speaker 1: they have to put it in a discretion discretionary trust
Speaker 1: or another bank account. Effectively that the primary beneficiary of
Speaker 1: that is the UK government.
Speaker 7: So they're paying their taxes, they're putting in basically into
Speaker 7: an escrow account, but UK doesn't have access to that
Speaker 7: unless they do what and how many people do you
Speaker 7: have so far?
Speaker 4: Who are doing this?
Speaker 1: So so far, I mean there has been a trial
Speaker 1: run of a bunch of people and businesses that have
Speaker 1: done this on the pledge. Right now we have up
Speaker 1: to just under seventy thousand people effectively engaged and that's
Speaker 1: ready to go. The goal for me is to get
Speaker 1: up to one hundred thousand people because that would eliminate
Speaker 1: seven hundred million pounds close to a billion dollars from
Speaker 1: the UK's budget and look to be transfer everyone's going
Speaker 1: to Oh, those numbers might seem small, for the UK
Speaker 1: is not the United States. It doesn't have a trillion
Speaker 1: dollars budget. It is only sixty million people thirty eight
Speaker 1: million people which pay taxation. You would one hundred thousand
Speaker 1: knockout of that and even go as far as we
Speaker 1: think engagement will be up to a million, two million,
Speaker 1: three million, that's nearly ten percent of the population. If
Speaker 1: they stop paying taxation, you will cripple the ability of
Speaker 1: the Treasury and the UK government to move forward in
Speaker 1: any policy. Frankly, and to answer your early question about
Speaker 1: who's doing it already, we obviously tested this. We had
Speaker 1: a couple of small businesses and partners who also i
Speaker 1: wouldn't say prop personally, who just don't want to see
Speaker 1: children blowing up every morning when they wake up on
Speaker 1: their phones. They don't want to see their government and
Speaker 1: themselves participate in these actions. And we work with these businesses.
Speaker 1: They're small in the UK. They have fifty to sixty
Speaker 1: people to tell the HMRC inform them through this process
Speaker 1: that they won't be they will continue.
Speaker 5: They don't want to be complicit.
Speaker 1: They don't want to be complicit in these war crimes
Speaker 1: that the UK is actively engaged in. They don't want
Speaker 1: to be personally culpable for these war crimes, and they
Speaker 1: don't want to collect tax that will be funding those
Speaker 1: war crimes. So they send that out to HMRC with
Speaker 1: all the statute stuff that I mentioned earlier on showed
Speaker 1: up the trust that they're actually setting up to put
Speaker 1: the taxation in and the UK would only get the
Speaker 1: money if it could prove it's no longer aiding and
Speaker 1: embedding and supporting these genocidal acts.
Speaker 6: The system just like from the perspective of democracy, sounds
Speaker 6: like so enviable from the United States, Like being able
Speaker 6: to express your politics through removing your tax funding in
Speaker 6: this way is just like amazing. Has the at testament
Speaker 6: to get really impressive organizing on your part and other
Speaker 6: people who are involved in this. Has the right flirted
Speaker 6: with us at all and said, for example, if the
Speaker 6: UK is funding UNRA, funding the un which is funding UNRA,
Speaker 6: which has Hamas connections, I'm not paying taxes because I
Speaker 6: don't want to fund Has there been any like counter
Speaker 6: effort or are you guys really like uh? Completely? And
Speaker 6: maybe this is reflective of where public opinion is in
Speaker 6: the UK too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting. It's a really good question.
Speaker 1: I think that the funny thing is we were very
Speaker 1: specific about the ICC Act, right, I mean, because somebody
Speaker 1: gets me, couldn't I change?
Speaker 5: Is that not a massa truscity? Could I not do this?
Speaker 1: For there's so many reasons you could possibly. The language
Speaker 1: around the icct ICC Act really was designed to stop
Speaker 1: war crimes, to stop genocide, to stop what we're seeing
Speaker 1: and what we're seeing in Gazan and what happened in
Speaker 1: Bosnia and Rwanda and everything else around that. So we've
Speaker 1: been very specific about why you couldn't do this around
Speaker 1: everything out there.
Speaker 5: And then also terrorism.
Speaker 1: It's complex, right, right, we put people in the Terror
Speaker 1: Watch this we the United States, the UK, even Europe,
Speaker 1: but not everyone sees every organization as a terrorist group.
Speaker 5: So harmas in it itself.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to speak to just me,
Speaker 1: but the guy who negotiated the Good Friday Agreement between
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland, UK and Ireland, Jonathan Powell, ha MASS is
Speaker 1: not recognized as a terrorist organization to about one hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty other countries. You know, it's literally, to lack
Speaker 1: of a better term, white countries in Europe and the
Speaker 1: United States and Israel. So it's complex, right when you
Speaker 1: have like a genocidal act that's been really enforced by
Speaker 1: and That's why there was rulings are really important. That's
Speaker 1: why the plausible genocide, which is effectively genocide by international standards,
Speaker 1: and having a Franciscalbinator's report to the UN all enforcing
Speaker 1: the fact that this is the genocide, really makes this possible.
Speaker 1: It's really difficult when you have an individual act. You know,
Speaker 1: you can have an act of terror, and you can
Speaker 1: have an act an act of violence and say, well,
Speaker 1: that was that's done by terrorism organized is surely I
Speaker 1: should be able to remove my funding from this right now.
Speaker 1: And it's you know, you could argue and you know
Speaker 1: that they're freedom fighters for some reason, and you could
Speaker 1: talk about how people felt of the ira and all
Speaker 1: then iland whether their freedom fighters are not terrorists.
Speaker 5: So it's complex there.
Speaker 1: But that's why all those other rulings are really important
Speaker 1: to make this possible. And it really doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: the US and the UK say. If the Top Court,
Speaker 1: which by the way, they fund through the UN, is
Speaker 1: making these rulings.
Speaker 7: What's the effect been so far on the politics back
Speaker 7: at home, if any.
Speaker 6: Not.
Speaker 1: We haven't had a direct response. I definitely know that
Speaker 1: they are worried. We've had a bit of a blowback
Speaker 1: from I think government tax people who've gone on air in
Speaker 1: the UK say this is not legal, you know. And
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is here, they've sent accountants out to
Speaker 1: do this, right, they've sent tax experts. There's no tax
Speaker 1: person that you work with that's going to recommend you
Speaker 1: do this. This is based in international law, and the
Speaker 1: problem with tax lawyers and tax specialists is they don't
Speaker 1: understand international law. We're using laws that are written by
Speaker 1: the UN and the Hague, but also your laws that
Speaker 1: are written by the UK government to address terrorism, to
Speaker 1: address war crimes, to address genocide. To do this, we're
Speaker 1: not using tax law. The only tax part is the trust.
Speaker 1: You know, the factors. We're saying you can withhold all
Speaker 1: your funding because it's in the international law and our
Speaker 1: own domestic laws, the ICC Act and Terror Actors say
Speaker 1: you are culpable right now if we are supporting this,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 5: Think that's the I feel like they've approached this wrongly.
Speaker 1: You know, have an expert who is an expert in
Speaker 1: war crimes and an expert in international law to call
Speaker 1: this illegal. Have an expert who understands the Terrorism Act
Speaker 1: to call this illegal. They haven't been able to muster that,
Speaker 1: yet they've only had accountants basically go out there and
Speaker 1: say that, And no accountant is going to tell you Ryan,
Speaker 1: you know, or anywhere on the show that you should
Speaker 1: withhold your tax.
Speaker 6: Well, I was just going to say and to like
Speaker 6: ask that question about how this does the success of
Speaker 6: this reflects on our public opinion on the war is
Speaker 6: among people in the UK? Do you see the success
Speaker 6: of this as being a reflection of you know, kind
Speaker 6: of what we were talking about earlier in the show
Speaker 6: with Ryan and I were talking about what Donald Trump
Speaker 6: said about Israel's public relations problem? Do you see this
Speaker 6: as reflecting like real, real deep fissures in public opinion
Speaker 6: about that question?
Speaker 5: One percent?
Speaker 1: I think the I mean, you only have to look
Speaker 1: at the public opinion here where it's like over seventy
Speaker 1: percent want to see spirits point in the UK is
Speaker 1: I don't know the numbers off the top of my
Speaker 1: head that's surpassed that. I mean, you even have you
Speaker 1: asked the question for people on the right. I think
Speaker 1: people are generally sick of waking up to those images.
Speaker 1: Generally can't understand how our governments are okay with this, generally,
Speaker 1: like why are we still sending weapons to help this.
Speaker 1: I think public opinion. I think across you know, somebody
Speaker 1: said to me, Oh, it's just the global South or
Speaker 1: at least that cares about this. You only have to
Speaker 1: look at your streets every weekend to realize how many
Speaker 1: people care about this. You only have to look at
Speaker 1: the reason they're trying to ban things like TikTok here
Speaker 1: and in the UK because so much engagement around how
Speaker 1: how atrocious all of this is, How we can't believe
Speaker 1: that we're okay with this, and we can't believe you know,
Speaker 1: that this is happening and we can watch it, you know.
Speaker 1: I think people are over our institutions continuing this map,
Speaker 1: continuing these massacres, and millions of people across the UK
Speaker 1: at the west of the world want killings of Palestinians
Speaker 1: by Israelis to just end, just simply end at this point.
Speaker 1: And whether you are pro Palestinian or you have a
Speaker 1: side or whatever, I think the majority of people want
Speaker 1: it to stop. And that is something you can't I
Speaker 1: think I think most people agree with right, Like, you're
Speaker 1: seeing people who are like not even engaged in these politics,
Speaker 1: not engaged in Palestinian liberation, out there going look, I
Speaker 1: just want kids. I don't want kids that look like
Speaker 1: that could be my kid, bomb shot or starved.
Speaker 7: And you may have seen this video recently, but if
Speaker 7: you didn't, there was this a French national who was
Speaker 7: kind of caught on video down in Gaza talking about
Speaker 7: and actually like engage and basically torture of a Palestinian detainee.
Speaker 7: And then there was an effort online to identify like
Speaker 7: who this who this person was, which was successful people
Speaker 7: who people who were friends with him.
Speaker 4: So wait a minute, I know who that is.
Speaker 7: And now there's kind of an effort underway to prosecute
Speaker 7: this guy when he comes back to France after this.
Speaker 7: What sense do you have among people who are trying to,
Speaker 7: you know, bring accountability to people who are engaged in this,
Speaker 7: either at the leadership level or on the ground. Are
Speaker 7: there any efforts that are proceeding in any ways that
Speaker 7: are kind of worth exploring at this point.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about that is that obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: we're working on something like that, which we'll get into.
Speaker 1: But I think the public don't want these people coming
Speaker 1: back and being that teacher of their kids. The public
Speaker 1: don't want these individuals to sit next to them in
Speaker 1: the office. The public don't want to engage with these
Speaker 1: individuals who've killed children and celebrated killing children, who've taught
Speaker 1: should other human beings and just sit next to them
Speaker 1: in the coffeehouse like nothing changed and and talk to them.
Speaker 1: I think people are deeply uncomfortable with that and the
Speaker 1: fact that they will potentially slip back into society. So
Speaker 1: you know the reason, the big the reason that the
Speaker 1: taxing just one second, The reason people want to do
Speaker 1: this is because you've had protests after protests, millions of
Speaker 1: people in the United Kingdom March and everyone's always asking
Speaker 1: what more can I do? This is a way for
Speaker 1: them to actively get involved now to answer your actual question.
Speaker 1: Because the public can't do this, there are lawyers across
Speaker 1: the United States, across Europe who are trying to hold
Speaker 1: these individuals accountable.
Speaker 5: Right now.
Speaker 1: There are a set of cases being worked on to
Speaker 1: go after the Israeli administration but also the American administration.
Speaker 5: For their war crimes.
Speaker 1: There is a movement of lawyers also across the EU
Speaker 1: going after individuals personally IDs soldiers responsible for those war
Speaker 1: crimes too. They're arrogant enough to do it on video
Speaker 1: it's not that difficult to bring charges against them.
Speaker 5: The French government even cleared the way.
Speaker 1: The Justice Department earlier this week cleared the way for
Speaker 1: prosecutions if anyone could identify people, right, there is always
Speaker 1: a will the will the government actually get in the way,
Speaker 1: Will the government actually stop us prosecuting these individuals.
Speaker 5: Well, that's all been clear.
Speaker 1: The Justice Department announcement going if you can under if
Speaker 1: you have that, you have the evidence, those charges can
Speaker 1: be brought to court. But yes, to answer to answer
Speaker 1: your other point about what's happening. So I am working
Speaker 1: with a coalition of lawyers with other partners like Noorder,
Speaker 1: earlcat who's a famous human rights lawyer here in the
Speaker 1: United States, which Palestinian, bringing cases against both Israel but
Speaker 1: the United States. And the focus and the lawyers that
Speaker 1: I'm working on have is the United States, because we
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be possible without them. We have funded it.
Speaker 1: We have literally sent cash, just cash. We have We
Speaker 1: have sent all the weapons that have been used for
Speaker 1: this genocide, the amount weapons as well as used. They'd
Speaker 1: be out, they'd be out of bombs in a week
Speaker 1: if we weren't continuously restocking that The amount they've dropped
Speaker 1: this shocking, and they wouldn't be able to do that
Speaker 1: without the United States. So we are complicit, and we've
Speaker 1: made it embedded than that, but also the political cover
Speaker 1: we've provided, the amount of vetos when we've already known
Speaker 1: since the middle of October it's and ethnic cleansing, it's
Speaker 1: a genocide.
Speaker 5: We've provided all of that. So we have a coalition
Speaker 5: of lawyers.
Speaker 1: Specifically, the countries where these cases are more towards the
Speaker 1: end of actually being submitted are in Ireland and Spain.
Speaker 1: They will happen this spring where there'll be cases brought
Speaker 1: against not just Biden, not just Blinken, not just Austin.
Speaker 1: Our targets are the entire administration, and that includes those
Speaker 1: press secretaries from Matt Miller to koreemj KJP and John Kirby,
Speaker 1: who outwardly promoted genocide, who outwardly said this is okay,
Speaker 1: who outly also butcher international law when saying things like
Speaker 1: Israel has a right to defend itself. I guess every
Speaker 1: state has a right to defend itself, but from another state,
Speaker 1: not from people they occupy. In fact, resistance is the
Speaker 1: actual thing that is lead goal from occupation in international law.
Speaker 1: So the gaslet and lied to the public blatantly about
Speaker 1: all this stuff already. So they are culpable. Every press secretary,
Speaker 1: every member of the war cabinet, every staff member from
Speaker 1: Jeff Science, they are culpable in these cases. And they
Speaker 1: are all being named in these cases because it's important
Speaker 1: that they don't know any more. They don't know any
Speaker 1: peace going forward. We accept that the president, through maybe
Speaker 1: international because of diplomatic community, might not be able to
Speaker 1: be charged immediately, but hey, he might not be in
Speaker 1: office in November, and I might lose the election, so
Speaker 1: there might be a potential for him to be justice
Speaker 1: to be sought against him. But none of those staff
Speaker 1: members have immunity from prosecution anywhere else in the world.
Speaker 1: If they go abroad and these cases are brought, they
Speaker 1: will be named and there will be warrants for them
Speaker 1: to appear at court.
Speaker 7: And Ashe's last question, Neil, you personally, you've had an
Speaker 7: interesting journey to this place. Who worked in some conservative
Speaker 7: circles in Britain, worked for work for Tony Blair when
Speaker 7: he was minised envoy. You know, can you describe a
Speaker 7: little bit of your journey, how you got to the
Speaker 7: place where you said, you know what, I can't allow
Speaker 7: these these folks in a moment of sleep, and I'm
Speaker 7: gonna do everything I can to bring an end to
Speaker 7: the UK involvement in this as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, just knowing being taught what horrors like this are, Like,
Speaker 1: I think we do a disservice to our education system
Speaker 1: by not teaching things like we want to talk about
Speaker 1: the Holocausts. Yeah, we teach it properly in the UK,
Speaker 1: and we're taught that this should never happen. We're taught
Speaker 1: that we shouldn't indiscriminately watch the massacre of children, babies, grandparents.
Speaker 1: And you know, I am also the descendant of someone
Speaker 1: who had to go through that in Kenya with the
Speaker 1: British and learning and having my own family talk about
Speaker 1: that stuff.
Speaker 5: Having seen a part like firsthand.
Speaker 1: When you work in the mid East End Boys office
Speaker 1: is really hard to see and you know, and the
Speaker 1: reason I left that job was what seeing a part
Speaker 1: at first. And I think people have said much better
Speaker 1: things than I'm ever going to say about what they've
Speaker 1: seen when they went there, but it's unseeable after that,
Speaker 1: and then watching this indiscriminate killing and watching that this
Speaker 1: could be our future.
Speaker 5: Also, I think this is the part that.
Speaker 1: I think people who are not engaged you need to understand.
Speaker 1: If we tolerate this, our children are next. The way
Speaker 1: they are policing and brutalizing Palestinians, the way they are
Speaker 1: massacring Palestinians. I've only learned from Iraq, you know, myself
Speaker 1: and everybody else, that everything we've done abroad comes back home.
Speaker 1: You know, there was a time where no one believed
Speaker 1: drones would be over the skies of NYC monitoring us,
Speaker 1: and then swat teams would rade your home. Well, we
Speaker 1: did that in two thousand and three, four five. Now
Speaker 1: we do it in Brooklyn. You know, there are things
Speaker 1: that we're doing in Israel that if we tolerate, they
Speaker 1: will happen to our own people. And we must and
Speaker 1: the only thing standing between us and that is Palestinians
Speaker 1: right now, and we must do everything we can to
Speaker 1: stop mad these atrocities. This isn't just about me coming
Speaker 1: to this. There are millions of people across the world
Speaker 1: who've come to this and seen something that they don't
Speaker 1: want to live with. It's something that they understand could
Speaker 1: happen to them.
Speaker 7: Well, she's well said, and thank you so much for
Speaker 7: joining us, really appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 4: All right. Well, that'll do it for today. You're here tomorrow,
Speaker 4: is that right.
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna say I will be here with Crystal
Speaker 6: tomorrow and we will be back here with more counterpoints
Speaker 6: next Wednesday.
Speaker 4: There you go, all right, see you guys then