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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you.

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Speaker 3: Guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 4: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 5: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 6: Good morning and welcome to Counterpoints. Ryan. How are you

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Speaker 6: doing today?

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Speaker 4: Wonderful? How about yourself?

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Speaker 6: I'm doing well. We've got a big show. We're going

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Speaker 6: to be starting with some really really big stuff coming

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Speaker 6: from Israel. Then we'll dive more into the bridge collapse.

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Speaker 6: We'll talk about RFK Junior's announcement. Vice presidential announcement speech,

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Speaker 6: which I was just told by producer Mac started with

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Speaker 6: the land acknowledgement.

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Speaker 7: So it's been an interesting campaign. I was going to

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Speaker 7: say interesting vice presidential choice.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I was going to say pick a lane, but

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Speaker 6: that's kind of his whole thing, not.

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Speaker 4: Picking picking a lane.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. Ronald McDaniel was officially fired for her new gig

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Speaker 6: at NBC News. Former RNC chairs so we have some

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Speaker 6: updates on that. Ryan has requested a segment on Conservative Twitter.

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Speaker 4: What is going on on Conservative Twitter?

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Speaker 7: Because I really don't know, and we have somebody here

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Speaker 7: who can tell us, So why not take advantage of

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Speaker 7: this sort of tell us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we'll do our best, and we have a great

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Speaker 3: guest ring.

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Speaker 7: Yes, so we're gonna we're going to be talking to

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Speaker 7: the guy who's leading a tax revolt in the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 7: They have they have discovered a provision in law that

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Speaker 7: allows you to withhold taxes if your tax money is

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Speaker 7: going to genocide. Can't do that here in the United States.

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Speaker 7: There's zero reason for you to be able to withhold taxes.

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Speaker 7: They are closing in on one hundred thousand people who

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Speaker 7: are pledging not to pay taxes, which given the UK budget,

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Speaker 7: is going to be a serious chunk.

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Speaker 4: And this is this is early on in their campaign.

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Speaker 7: So this this could lead to the United Kingdom stopping

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Speaker 7: arms shipments to Israel. So we'll talk about that, and

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Speaker 7: you know this. This organization is also working with prosecutors

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Speaker 7: around Europe and around the world with the intention of

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Speaker 7: prosecuting not only soldiers who are foreign nationals who are

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Speaker 7: participating in the genocide, but also Israeli leadership, meaning it

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Speaker 7: could become difficult for them to travel and they can

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Speaker 7: get picked up here there.

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Speaker 4: If these prosecutions go forward.

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Speaker 7: So that's all of that's going to be interesting at

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Speaker 7: the at the end of the show.

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Speaker 6: Certainly significant and also Ryan at the Breakingpoints dot Com.

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Speaker 6: That's where you get the full version of Counterpoints, so

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Speaker 6: it goes right to your inbox, and no, nothing is

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Speaker 6: broken up into different clips, so you can just watch

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Speaker 6: the whole thing right there.

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Speaker 7: No ads, no must, no fuss, get it an hour

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Speaker 7: early Breakingpoints dot Com.

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Speaker 4: Why not?

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Speaker 6: There you go? All right, Ryan, let's start with Israel

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Speaker 6: and actually really with Gaza.

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Speaker 7: Yes, So, the United Nations Human Rights Council delivered a

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Speaker 7: report yesterday finding that the plausibility of genocide is growing

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Speaker 7: greater and greater.

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Speaker 4: Let's play a little bit of this clip from the.

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Speaker 8: UN Following nearly six months of unrelenting Israeli a sult

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Speaker 8: on ocupa Gaza. It is my solemn duty to report

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Speaker 8: on the worst of what humanity is capable of and

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Speaker 8: to present my finding the anatomy of genocide. One of

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Speaker 8: my key findings is that Israel's executive and military leadership

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Speaker 8: and soldiers have intentionally distorted rules of international humanitarian law, distinction, proportionality,

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Speaker 8: and precaution in an attempt to legitimize genocidal violence against

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Speaker 8: the Palestinian people. By deliberately stretching the definitions of human shield,

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Speaker 8: evacuation orders, warnings, safe zones, collateral damage, and medical protection,

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Speaker 8: Israel has used their protective function as humanitarian camouflage, with

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Speaker 8: the effect of concealing patterns of conduct from which the

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Speaker 8: only inference can reasonably be drawn is a state policy

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Speaker 8: of genocidal violence against the Palestinians. In light of this,

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Speaker 8: I find that there are reasonable grounds to believe that

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Speaker 8: their threshold indicating the commission of the crime of genocide

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Speaker 8: against Palestinians as a group in Gaza has been met. Specifically,

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Speaker 8: Israel has committed three acts of genocide with the requisite

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Speaker 8: intent causing seriously serious bodily or mental harm to members

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Speaker 8: of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of

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Speaker 8: life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole

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Speaker 8: or in part, and imposing measures intended to prevent birth

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Speaker 8: within the group.

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Speaker 7: So there's the UN Human Rights Council stating what is

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Speaker 7: increasingly hard to recognize from the outside that Israel is

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Speaker 7: committing a genocide in Gaza. And I found it interesting

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Speaker 7: the way that they curious fear take on this, the

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Speaker 7: way that they pointed to what we've all seen, which

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Speaker 7: is Israel saying okay, everybody in the north, you evacuate

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Speaker 7: to the south, and then firing at people as they're going,

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Speaker 7: and then firing at people in the safe zones, and

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Speaker 7: then saying, okay, yes, we attacked this hospital, but it's

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Speaker 7: because there were tunnels underneath the hospital and therefore these

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Speaker 7: were quote unquote human shields, and so they were, you know,

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Speaker 7: unfortunate but legitimate military targets.

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Speaker 4: And the un here.

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Speaker 7: Saying no, none, none of that is an excuse against

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Speaker 7: what you're doing, and it seems to us to be

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Speaker 7: a deliberate and calculated move.

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Speaker 6: Something I find interesting about all of this. I go

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Speaker 6: back to a conversation we had, I think in December

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Speaker 6: with an expert on genocide who we were talking with

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Speaker 6: him about the sort of post World War two historical

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Speaker 6: genesis of the current definition of genocide that we have,

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Speaker 6: which was a reaction to the horrors of World War

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Speaker 6: One and World War Two that had just absolutely terrorized

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Speaker 6: a couple of generations of people in the earlier half

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Speaker 6: of the twentieth century. And you know, these these questions

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Speaker 6: are so it's we agreed to hold ourselves to a

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Speaker 6: higher standard, basically, and when you listened to you and

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Speaker 6: Human Rights Council, there is something to be said, as

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Speaker 6: you were just discussing that when, for instance, when they

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Speaker 6: fire on people in the so called like humanitarian corridors

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Speaker 6: or the escape corridors, however they phrase it, they're saying

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Speaker 6: they're terrorists among them. You know, the Hamas is putting

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Speaker 6: civilians at danger by embedding in war time with people

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Speaker 6: who are legitimately trying to evacuate. And it just reminds

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Speaker 6: me of that David Brooks column I think from last

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Speaker 6: week where he said, what would you have Israel do

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Speaker 6: not fire on people as they're escaping, you know, like

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Speaker 6: it could start like actually, like they're actually It's not

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Speaker 6: that these questions aren't complicated. It's not that militants are

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Speaker 6: not embedding with civilians.

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Speaker 3: It's just that, you know.

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Speaker 6: We all agreed to what happened after World War two,

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Speaker 6: to these new standards, and that's it doesn't make certainly

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Speaker 6: doesn't make war easy to fight a war in a

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Speaker 6: way that meets these stands, But what would you have

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Speaker 6: Israel do?

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Speaker 4: Not that good reason to reach a peace deal.

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Speaker 7: And so Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln was met with

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Speaker 7: net Yahou yesterday, and we can put up this Axios.

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Speaker 4: Report because I think this puts it well.

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Speaker 7: Blincoln unloads on Bibi, you need a coherent plan or

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Speaker 7: face disaster in Gaza, and their lead goes. Secretary of

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Speaker 7: State Blincoln warned Israeli Prime Minister and Benjamin net Yaho

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Speaker 7: and his war cabin in a meeting on Friday. Sorry,

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Speaker 7: I said yesterday that Israel's security and its place in

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Speaker 7: the world are in peril end quote. You might not

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Speaker 7: realize it until it's too late, A source familiar with

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Speaker 7: the meeting told Axios.

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Speaker 4: And this.

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Speaker 7: Is the message that we've been getting publicly from the

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Speaker 7: Biden administration to the press and to Israel that because

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Speaker 7: it almost isn't credible for the Biden administration to say

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Speaker 7: that they are concerned about Palestinian welfare. And so the

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Speaker 7: way that they constantly frame their concern about Israel's actions

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Speaker 7: is that they.

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Speaker 4: Say what Israel is doing is hurting Israel.

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Speaker 7: Because everybody does agree that the United States does not

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Speaker 7: want to see Israel harmed by the way.

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Speaker 3: It's basically the argument Donald Trump made recently.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump made that's a very good point.

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Speaker 7: He gave an interview to Shelton Addison's paper, the late

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Speaker 7: Sheldon Addison's paper, It's free paper in Israel is the

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Speaker 7: most widely read paper in the country, and he said

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Speaker 7: exactly that, right. He said, you need to wrap this

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Speaker 7: up was practically his quote. Right, He's like, this is

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Speaker 7: you don't realize how badly this is hurting you. There

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Speaker 7: is some type of bubble going on in Israel right

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Speaker 7: now that does seem to be blocking world opinion from

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Speaker 7: getting through. It's a combination I think of the war fever,

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Speaker 7: the trauma from October seventh, and the propaganda inside Israel

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Speaker 7: that the entire world is against us, even though the

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Speaker 7: entire world is kind of for decades of support what

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Speaker 7: it Israel against the Palestinians, but the entire world is

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Speaker 7: against us, that thousands of years of anti Semitism are

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Speaker 7: driving the criticism of our war effort rather than the

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Speaker 7: actual images that we're seeing that the entire world is

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Speaker 7: seeing coming out of Gaza.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the Trump point I think is.

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Speaker 7: Actually, you're right, it's the same point that Biden's making, Like, guys,

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Speaker 7: you don't have any idea how bad this.

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Speaker 4: Is for you.

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Speaker 6: Well, and so I wanted to get your take Ryan,

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Speaker 6: And I think I showed you this before we started.

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Speaker 6: But I was reading in the Jerusalem Post about a

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Speaker 6: Shifa and I know we're about to get to that.

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Speaker 6: But they write around six thousand civilians were also evacuated,

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Speaker 6: but unlike the November operation when there was no inspection

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Speaker 6: of evacuetions, these civilians were evacuated with a careful inspection

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Speaker 6: to catch all of the terrorists. And the pressure that

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Speaker 6: Biden is exerting on Israel, Israel is mad about. Obviously

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Speaker 6: there have been you know, words exchanged between it and

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Speaker 6: yahoom Lincoln and Biden and Israel obviously feels like it's

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Speaker 6: getting way too much pressure from the US to move

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Speaker 6: to like precision operations or ceasefire, anything on that sort

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Speaker 6: of spectrum of wrapping it up to paraphrasing, parapraising Donald Trump.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, it's true, that's not like the full demand

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Speaker 6: for ceasefire, and it's not going full you know, saying

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Speaker 6: as the un just did you know it's not making

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Speaker 6: that designation from the US.

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Speaker 3: I think the pressure is at least.

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Speaker 6: Real, though it might not be enough, but I think

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Speaker 6: it is at least real because it does seem like

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Speaker 6: Israel is actually adapting.

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Speaker 7: Yes, the pressure is real to have Iron nations, for instance,

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Speaker 7: Special Rappertoire there saying that Israel is committing genocide like that,

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Speaker 7: is that that represents something that can't be ignored. You

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Speaker 7: know the case itself that South Africa brought before the

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Speaker 7: International Court of Justice with with something like thirteen other

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Speaker 7: countries backing it up, where the judges found a plausible

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Speaker 7: case that genocide has gone on.

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Speaker 4: All of this is creating pressure.

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Speaker 7: And we'll talk about talking a second about how Israel

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Speaker 7: is actually concerned that this might lead to a restriction

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Speaker 7: in arms flows, but it has created this refrain from

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Speaker 7: the United States that well, look, Israel's just going to

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Speaker 7: do what it's going to do. It's a sovereign country.

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Speaker 7: And we actually have a clip that we can roll

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Speaker 7: from the State Department making this point here. Let's roll

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Speaker 7: Matt Miller, State Department spokesperson number one.

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Speaker 9: When it comes to dictating, you're right, no, we do

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Speaker 9: not dictate to them, we can't dictate it, and they're

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Speaker 9: a sovereign country in the United States can't dictate to

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Speaker 9: any sovereign country. They're going to make their own decisions

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Speaker 9: and they have been quite clear about that, and we

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Speaker 9: would expect nothing less from any sovereign country. That said,

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Speaker 9: we always offer our best advice to them.

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Speaker 7: On your point about Israel being a sovereign country in

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Speaker 7: the US can't tell them what to do. Back in

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Speaker 7: May nineteenth, twenty twenty one, you have Joe Biden telling

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Speaker 7: that Yahoo is quote was, hey man, we are out

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Speaker 7: of runway here, it's over, and it was over.

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Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan famously did the same back in nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 4: Ultiment is over.

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Speaker 7: Why can't he say it's over this time? Does that

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Speaker 7: mean he it supports the continuation of this war, even

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Speaker 7: if it means going into run.

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Speaker 9: So we support Israel's ability to defeat hamas we support

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Speaker 9: Israel's legitimate security objectives. We support them ensuring that October

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Speaker 9: seventh can never happen again, and so we continue to

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Speaker 9: support their ability to do that while offering as them,

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Speaker 9: as I said, our best advice on how to go

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Speaker 9: about that campaign. And that's what we'll continue to do.

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Speaker 7: What is your assessment on those two Hamas battalions that

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Speaker 7: you that the US has said are so key to

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Speaker 7: take out and that israels that are key to take

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Speaker 7: out it. What's the assessment on why Hamas wouldn't be

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Speaker 7: able to just create new with great new battalions. So

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Speaker 7: in the appas of a political solution.

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Speaker 9: That said, your underlying question is exactly right. Ultimately, something

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Speaker 9: that we have learned in our counter terrorism experience around

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Speaker 9: the world is that you can while you can accomplish

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Speaker 9: counter terrorism objectives on the battlefield, ultimately when it comes

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Speaker 9: to when it comes to winning the larger battle, you

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Speaker 9: have to offer a political path for the Palestinian people's

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Speaker 9: legitimate or in this case, you would have to offer

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Speaker 9: we believe you have to offer a political path for

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Speaker 9: the Palestinian people's legitimate aspirations.

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Speaker 7: So after that, I asked the what I think is

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Speaker 7: the obvious follow up question. He said, would Hamas have

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Speaker 7: any role, any version of Hamas have any role in

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Speaker 7: this political solution that you're saying is essential that you

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Speaker 7: can't win this militarily, And he said absolutely not. Hamas

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Speaker 7: is a horrific and brutal terrorist organization, which you can

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Speaker 7: just draw the circle, you get right back to the beginning.

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Speaker 7: Then okay, well, now then you have to eliminate all

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Speaker 7: the battalions. Okay, but you've eliminated the battalions, so you

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Speaker 7: don't have a political solution. There's going to make more

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Speaker 7: battalions because you need a political solution. But you can't

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Speaker 7: have a political solution that involves a mass so then

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Speaker 7: they're going.

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Speaker 4: To just create more battalis.

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Speaker 7: And he says we've learned from our counter terrorism experience

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Speaker 7: over the last twenty years with the global War on Terror,

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Speaker 7: that you can win on the battlefield, but if you

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Speaker 7: don't get if you don't win politically, if you don't

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Speaker 7: get to some type of peaceful resolution, those battlefield victories

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Speaker 7: are quickly reversed and new terrorists are created. So I

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Speaker 7: don't see them. I don't see them getting out of

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Speaker 7: that doom loop there.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest problems with

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Speaker 6: like this entire purported plan, the day After plan. Right,

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Speaker 6: we hear so much about the day After Plan, Day

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Speaker 6: after plan. It just you can put it out like

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Speaker 6: you can type it out, but it's not feasible. Whatever

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Speaker 6: they're saying, like to first of all, it took them

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Speaker 6: long enough to even put anything out about what if

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Speaker 6: you had this like successful eradication of hamas military operation,

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Speaker 6: what comes the day after nothing feasible has been presented.

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Speaker 6: And that's not because it's like an easy situation. It's

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Speaker 6: obviously an incredibly difficult and complicated situation. But nothing that's

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Speaker 6: been advanced in support of this vast sweeping military operation

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Speaker 6: as feasible.

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Speaker 7: And the US has floated the Palestinian authority as as

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Speaker 7: the kind of political entity that could get you to

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Speaker 7: pay some toward a toward a resolution. But you've you've

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Speaker 7: seen Israel respond to that saying, well, there was a

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Speaker 7: PA police officer recently that killed in Israeli a soldier

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Speaker 7: and injured several others, and so you can't you can't

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Speaker 7: have that institution. But if you take that logic a

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Speaker 7: step further and you actually have universal values around the question,

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Speaker 7: then you ask yourself, wait a minute. So you're saying

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Speaker 7: that committing atrocities and let's say, committing acts of genocide

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Speaker 7: makes you no longer legitimate as a governing.

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Speaker 4: Force, but that only goes one direction.

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Speaker 3: That's although they don't agree with the un categorization.

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Speaker 7: They just be at the U, but they certainly I

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Speaker 7: would imagine they'd have to acknowledge at least some atrocities

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Speaker 7: like let's say, the four unarmed teams that they blasted

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Speaker 7: with the drone the other day, Like just just that

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Speaker 7: you'd say, well, how could you have how could you

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Speaker 7: have the people operating that drone be a legitimate political

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Speaker 7: force going forward?

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Speaker 6: It's a total Yeah. I mean, it's that we have

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Speaker 6: done this for decades obviously, say one thing. And then

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Speaker 6: I was reading Alie North's memoir actually recently, and one

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Speaker 6: of the things he says is, you know, he was

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Speaker 6: one of the things he found frustrating. He's like, you know,

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Speaker 6: the British, the Israelis, they were trading weapons too. The

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Speaker 6: problem we do it is that we were like sanctimoniously

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Speaker 6: saying nobody should do this, like we would never do this,

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Speaker 6: but of course.

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Speaker 4: This is yeah, this is the Iran contract guy. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: So meanwhile, speaking of global pressure, for three days now,

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Speaker 7: we've seen massive protests in Jordan against the war. We

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Speaker 7: can roll some of the footage coming out of there.

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Speaker 7: Every time you have some type of the crisis in

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Speaker 7: the region, you'll have Yeah, dozens or maybe hundreds of

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Speaker 7: people go down to the Israeli embassy. The last three

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Speaker 7: days or so, you've seen thousands upon thousands of Jordanians,

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Speaker 7: who most Jordanians actually are of Palestinian descent. It's like

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Speaker 7: a majority of the Jordanian population. And so this this

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Speaker 7: is a especially dicey political situation for US ally Jordan.

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Speaker 7: Jordan is a dictatorship that recognizes that recognized Israel without

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Speaker 7: getting a solution to the Palestinian question. That has always

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Speaker 7: been a source of consternation among Palestinians and also just

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Speaker 7: regular Jordanians as well. This is the you know, so

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Speaker 7: called Arab Street that people like Thomas Frieden have been

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Speaker 7: warning about, you know, for decades.

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Speaker 4: But the Arab Street is a real thing.

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Speaker 7: And there's only so long that these populations are going

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Speaker 7: to allow their governments to collaborate with Israel in this

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Speaker 7: annihilation of their family members across the border.

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Speaker 6: It gets to the feasibility of any so called Day

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Speaker 6: After plan as well. I mean again, it's not because

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Speaker 6: this isn't difficult and complicated. It's not because there aren't

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Speaker 6: extremists in the governments that surround Israel. But reality means

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Speaker 6: that they have to live in that context, they have

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Speaker 6: to exist in that context. And it's I mean, good

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Speaker 6: luck with how things are going now.

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Speaker 7: And so meanwhile, relief efforts attempting to get around the

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Speaker 7: Israeli siege of Gods that have taken another tragic turn.

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Speaker 7: A dozen Palestinians drowned attempting to get humanitarian aid.

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Speaker 4: Let's roll a little bit of this news clip here.

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Speaker 2: As they spot a plane and the aid it begins

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Speaker 2: to drop, they run as fast as they can. It's

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Speaker 2: the rush of the people so desperately that would do

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Speaker 2: anything to feed their children now on the brink of starvation.

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Speaker 2: This is what survival in Gaza has come to, fighting

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Speaker 2: for food, that little bit of aid that makes it

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Speaker 2: into the north where a man made famine now looms.

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Speaker 2: People chased parachutes that fell into these choppy waters. It

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Speaker 2: is desperation that drives them into the sea of What

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Speaker 2: you're about to see next is disturbing. It's the reality

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Speaker 2: of a war growing more cruel by the day. The fastest,

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Speaker 2: the fittest emerged with boxes of American issued and he

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Speaker 2: was ready to eat. Others didn't make it out alive.

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Speaker 2: People gather around the thin, frail body of a man

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Speaker 2: who drowned trying to reach that aid. Twelve people drowned,

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Speaker 2: according to paramedics.

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Speaker 4: Like, what are we doing to people?

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Speaker 7: This is the this is the airlift that is being

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Speaker 7: carried out by the United States and collaboration with Jordan

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Speaker 7: because the US has refused to put pressure on the

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Speaker 7: Israelis to get crossings through over land. You see videos

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Speaker 7: every day now of trucks people who you can drive

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Speaker 7: for like forty five minutes outside of Gaza and just

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Speaker 7: see truck after truck after truck just sitting there idling,

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Speaker 7: waiting to go through if it gets through and they

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Speaker 7: find so the Israelis are searching these American aid trucks,

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Speaker 7: which is insane, Like think about that for a second.

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Speaker 7: The implication there is that the US is secretly smuggling

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Speaker 7: in arms to Hamas and our ally Israel needs to

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Speaker 7: search all of these trucks to make sure that we're

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Speaker 7: not arming Hamas. They for instance, will find a tent

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Speaker 7: pole because they've destroyed most of the infrastructure, so people

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Speaker 7: are living outdoors, so the humanitarian aid includes tents, but

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Speaker 7: if a tent pole is too thick, they will turn

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Speaker 7: the entire truck around everything in it has to then

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Speaker 7: go back and then it has to await a certain

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Speaker 7: number of days.

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Speaker 4: So the air drops are kind of.

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Speaker 7: This this pretend effort that we're doing to suggest that

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Speaker 7: we're not complicit in the genocide.

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Speaker 6: Do you know what we need?

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Speaker 4: What's that we need?

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Speaker 3: A peer?

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Speaker 4: A peer? Whyn't they just build a peer?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, because the problem apparently is that there are enough

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Speaker 7: access points, and so we need one more access point.

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Speaker 7: If we could just build a peer, maybe floating one,

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Speaker 7: and then things could come in unmolested from Cypress.

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Speaker 6: We could see some contractors.

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Speaker 4: Down there, contractors could what could go wrong there?

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Speaker 6: It seems like a fool proof plan.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, And so the Cypress is the launching point for this,

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Speaker 7: this pier that we're building in Gaza, and Cypress is

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Speaker 7: now clogged just like every other poort is. Like, the

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Speaker 7: problem is not an inability to get things in physically,

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Speaker 7: Like there are plenty of ways that we could do it,

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Speaker 7: just Israel just simply won't allow it. And so this

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Speaker 7: this relates to these negotiations and the starvation in northern Gaza,

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Speaker 7: which is turning into anarchy as Israel continues to kind

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Speaker 7: of target civilian police forces there as well, and also

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Speaker 7: continues to continue to try to have its own presence

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Speaker 7: in there, is blowing up the negotiations. According to Axios,

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Speaker 7: you can put up this from barakra Vit. He writes

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Speaker 7: the main issue that led to the impast and the

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Speaker 7: negotiations on the hostage deal was Hamasa's demand for the

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Speaker 7: full return of Palestinian residents to the northern Gaza Strip,

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Speaker 7: what is known in IDF parlance as drainage between the

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Speaker 7: south of the Gaza Strip to the north. This is

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Speaker 7: what Israeli and American officials who live over thea Strip

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Speaker 7: have told me.

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Speaker 4: And then he goes on the next one. Why this

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Speaker 4: is important, a senior.

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Speaker 7: Israeli officials said, at the political level in Israel and

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Speaker 7: to a certain extent in the US, made a miscalculation

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Speaker 7: regarding Hamasa's position and the ability of the mediators to

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Speaker 7: extract additional concessions from it, especially on the issue of

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Speaker 7: returning to the northern Strip. It seems rather indicative of

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Speaker 7: Israeli intent here that allowing residents to return to the

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Speaker 7: northern Guyza Strip is such a sticking point for Israel.

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Speaker 7: What what could we possibly draw from that? Other than

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Speaker 7: that this looks to be a land grab.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean again, it's you have Netnah, who caught

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Speaker 6: We've talked about this all the time, caught between a

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Speaker 6: rock and a hard place with his own coalition of people,

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Speaker 6: who said, what happened after after October seventh was the

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Speaker 6: opportunity for Israel to make serious incursions land incursions back

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Speaker 6: into land that was given up and to you know,

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Speaker 6: that would that that would allow them to create more

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Speaker 6: of a barrier, et cetera. Like this was the moment.

443
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 6: And Netanyah, who who is obviously deeply opposed to any

444
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 6: idea of a two state solution, whereas Joe Biden is

445
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 6: deeply committed to a two state solution. And these are

446
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 6: two people funding a war together, funding and allowing for

447
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 6: war together.

448
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 3: It's just you know, indicative.

449
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 6: I think of that too, that deeper problem for Nahu dynamic,

450
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 6: the political dynamic in Israel too.

451
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 7: Now, let's talk about another factor in these negotiations that

452
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 7: most Western news outlets don't talk about.

453
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 4: And that is the question of why why is it difficult?

454
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 7: Why is Israel miscalculating Hamasa's stubbornness on some of these negotiations,

455
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 7: And if you, if you follow a lot of the

456
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 7: kind of local press about this, you realize that the

457
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 7: war for the IDF is going very badly. From the air,

458
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 7: it is true they have been effectively able to raise

459
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 7: most of the Gaza strip, but on the ground it's

460
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 7: a much different story. So the IDF yesterday posted a

461
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 7: rather extraordinary video, and this is kind of in response

462
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 7: to the way that Hamas since the very beginning, has

463
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 7: been posting on Telegram and other channels regular updates from

464
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 7: the street battles and on a near daily bail basis,

465
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 7: sometimes you know, multiple times a day, and they become

466
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 7: iconic among people watching these worth that you've now got

467
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 7: that that little red carrot that kind of points down

468
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 7: onto an IDF soldier before say an RPG is centered

469
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 7: or has become kind of the symbol of this of

470
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 7: of this war.

471
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 4: And you'll, you'll, you'll you'll see people.

472
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 7: Say they're gonna get a red carrot like that that

473
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 7: that alluding to this, alluding to the fact they're gonna

474
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 7: wind up in one.

475
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 4: Of these videos.

476
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 7: Israel has barely ever put out any of its own videos,

477
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 7: so they put one out yesterday, and I think it's

478
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 7: instructive to take take a look at this is This

479
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 7: is one from uh the Alshifa complex, So this is

480
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 7: a residential house kind of within the kind of vicinity

481
00:25:59,040 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 7: of the hospital.

482
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 4: Uh.

483
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 7: This is seven IDF soldiers. They see a guy stick

484
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 7: a muzzle out of a of a rifle out of

485
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 7: a closet. Now, all seven of them take off. If

486
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 7: if you're not watching this there they kind of start

487
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 7: shooting wildly at walls. It looks it looks actually insanely dangerous.

488
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 7: It looks like they're lucky that nobody died of friendly fire.

489
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 7: Here at the very end, the guy comes down the stairs.

490
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 7: So this one guy has chased seven people down several

491
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 7: flights of stairs.

492
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 10: Uh.

493
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 7: And then as he's coming down the final flight of stairs,

494
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 7: they they strike him seven against one, and they decided

495
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 7: decided to post that. I asked Hin Kaudrey, who who's

496
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 7: done some reporting for the intercept, who is a reporter

497
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 7: in Gaza, if she could find out who who this was.

498
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 4: There were some rumors that it was a police officer.

499
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 7: There was some rumors that it was Fayak al Machmud

500
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 7: who was killed by IDA forces. He was the kind

501
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 7: of senior police commander in charge of making sure coordinating

502
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 7: with UNRA and making sure aid could be distributed in

503
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 7: a peaceful way.

504
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 4: She said, no, it was not. We can put this

505
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: up here.

506
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 7: It was Omar al Dadu from the al Dadu family

507
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 7: who was who she confirmed.

508
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 4: Was a fighter. Uh, not a not a police officer.

509
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 7: Separately, are our condolences to to hint, she she posted

510
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 7: this morning that both her uncle and her cousin were

511
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 7: killed by Israel last night. So condolences to hind and

512
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 7: to her family for for.

513
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 4: That added tragedy. Uh.

514
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 7: But we also wanted to play just for instance, we

515
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 7: just just randomly grabbed the most recent clip put up

516
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 7: by the Cassambra Gates on their telegram channel, so we

517
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 7: can just roll this one here. This is the kind

518
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 7: of thing they're posting absolutely constantly. So if you're not

519
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 7: if you're not watching, you're listening. This is an Israeli

520
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 7: tank rolling through the rubble and gets hit by an RPG.

521
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 7: You know, just every day you're posting something like this,

522
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 7: and you can only begin to imagine how horrifying it

523
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 7: must be to be in one of those tanks rolling

524
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 7: through this rubble. It's one thing to be in the

525
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 7: like the tunnels I'm sure terrifying too, but at least

526
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 7: with a tunnel.

527
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 4: You're looking that way, and you're looking that way.

528
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 7: Going through these bombed out healscapes everywhere around.

529
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 4: You could be an RPG any second.

530
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 7: And I think, and with the guy with a GoPro

531
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 7: and you're going to wind up on telegram within a

532
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 7: couple hours.

533
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 6: You know, You've done some really amazing coverage of how

534
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 6: veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan are using psychedelics for their PTSD.

535
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 6: And in some of the interviews that we've done on

536
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 6: the show with people, they talk about how that kind

537
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 6: of warfare is a new kind of PTSD because it.

538
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 4: Is so every second is terrifying.

539
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 6: It is exactly. And so what you have here is

540
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 6: this generation of men, obviously in Gaza, generation of men

541
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 6: in Israel who are embroiled and just the most horrifying,

542
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 6: one of the most horrify. I shouldn't say the most,

543
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 6: but one of the most horrifying. War is always horrifying.

544
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 6: That kind of war, there's a there's a special trauma

545
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 6: to it, for sure.

546
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, And there's there's a tendency toward kind of war

547
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 7: porn amongst amongst some folks. And so that's one reason

548
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 7: we've showed very little of this footage throughout this entire conflict,

549
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 7: because it's it's horrifying, and you don't you don't want

550
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 7: people leering or glorifying it in any kind of way.

551
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 7: The reason we wanted to play it today is to

552
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 7: make the political point that one of the reasons that

553
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 7: Israel the United States is having such a difficult time

554
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 7: in these negotiations that yes, Israel is managing to push

555
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 7: two million people to famine, a million of them children,

556
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 7: but on the ground they are not doing well in

557
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 7: the actual fighting, which is which I think then gives

558
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 7: the military wing of Hamas, the political wing of Hamas

559
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 7: a different question. The ones that cutter who were trying

560
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 7: to reach a deal, it's a different question. The military

561
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 7: wing of Hamas has an incentive to keep this going

562
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 7: because I think, what are you going to do just

563
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 7: keep sending tanks into the line of fire of our RPGs.

564
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like THEO they're like seven dollars RPGs.

565
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 6: Their incentives are completely different than this, like big modern

566
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 6: militaries incentives. Yeah.

567
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

568
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 6: And the point that I mentioned earlier about David Brooks

569
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 6: is what would you have Israel do? Column? And I

570
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 6: know we disagree with this, but in the macro sense,

571
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 6: I think that point is really well taken. In the

572
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 6: micro sense, though, it's like these various examples case studies

573
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 6: from the warfare just take a step back, you think,

574
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 6: in service of what like in service of Joe Biden's

575
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 6: goal for the day after, in service of net and

576
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 6: Yahoo's goal for the day after, in service of Motrix

577
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 6: goal for the day after. What's the plan? What's the plan?

578
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 6: It just it's been an incredible several months to watch

579
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 6: the floundering on that point.

580
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,959
Speaker 7: And to wrap up this block, we can put up

581
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 7: a four which I had skipped over. This is the

582
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 7: Jerusalem Post article about that says Gallance washing. So this

583
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 7: is about yo have Gallance coming trip to the United

584
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 7: States trying to head off in arms embargo. And it's

585
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 7: an interview that was done on Israeli radio with IDF

586
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 7: Major General Nimrod Schaeffer, who who says just straight up

587
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 7: in this article, read the whole thing for yourself that

588
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 7: if the United States tells Israel not to do an

589
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 7: invasion of Rapa, Israel will not do one.

590
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: That It's just that simple.

591
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 7: That there are, and he goes into he just says, look,

592
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 7: Bbe's saying this for political reasons.

593
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 4: This is just red meat for his base there.

594
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 7: He said, there is no world in which Israel is

595
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 7: doing this without the support of the United States. And

596
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 7: he said they have other ways of cutting off weapons.

597
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 7: They don't have to publicly say we're cutting off weapons.

598
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 7: What he describes it as as as kind of a

599
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 7: process on a spectrum that you're like, hey, what's up

600
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 7: with what's up that ammunition?

601
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 4: Where's that shipment? And you just hear back from the

602
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 4: US H.

603
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's it's caught up in paperwork, like we're gonna

604
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 7: we're working on it, and it just doesn't come and

605
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 7: then and then there doesn't have to be kind of

606
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 7: Biden and bb having a Titanic clash over weapons. Uh publicly,

607
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 7: but privately they don't get the weapons that they need.

608
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 7: So that means that if Israel does go into Rafa,

609
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 7: it means the United States supported that invasion, no matter

610
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 7: what they say publicly. This is according to broad shape.

611
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, not ideal.

612
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 6: That ideal All right, Rayan, should we move on.

613
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 4: To the bridge, call, let's go to the bridge.

614
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 6: So the obviously Soccer and Crystal covered this yesterday. But

615
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 6: the Key bridge collapse in Baltimore. Now six people are

616
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 6: presumed dead workers who were you know again doing construction

617
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 6: on that bridge. Mostly is from what we know, six

618
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 6: of them presumed dead. Now the black box has been recovered.

619
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 6: We're told that inspection crew overnight went onto the boat,

620
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 6: which is still basically stuck in the position after the

621
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 6: bridge collapsed onto it. So you have this bizarre situation.

622
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 6: There's an utterly bizarre situation. But the black box apparently recovered,

623
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 6: which is going to be very helpful because it looks

624
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 6: like obviously this was there's some type of power failure

625
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 6: on the ship itself. There's a lot we can get

626
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 6: into this, but let's just start with B one. This

627
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 6: is if you're watching, you're going to see exactly what

628
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 6: we were just talking about.

629
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 10: So this is.

630
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 6: The boat itself is basically where it is right now.

631
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 6: You can see the bridge just collapsed on the bow

632
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 6: and the bridge is you know, submerged in the river.

633
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 6: So that's again, this is where they took the black

634
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 6: box from, because the boat is still exactly right there,

635
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 6: basically where it hit. Now. Interestingly enough, my dad happens

636
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 6: to be a retired bridge inspector, so I made sure

637
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 6: to give him a call yesterday. And there were a

638
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 6: lot of sort of armchair bridge experts suddenly on Twitter yesterday,

639
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 6: but they're all there. Actually are also some real bridge

640
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 6: experts on Twitter. One of them is named John Conrad.

641
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 6: He runs the website g Captain, and they've had some

642
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 6: really good coverage of this that basically comports with what

643
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 6: I was talking to my dad about that when you

644
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 6: hit the pier in the way that you hit the peer,

645
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 6: there's almost nothing you could do. There's basically a lot

646
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 6: of people have been talking about the fenders, you know,

647
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 6: where the fenders on a bridge like that, it should

648
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 6: have fender exactly what it sounds like, some type of

649
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 6: barrier around the different support structure parts of the bridge,

650
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 6: and this one looks like it didn't have much of that.

651
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 6: If it did, it was really minimal. And people are like, well, what,

652
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 6: there's massive cargo ships going through here, why would you

653
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 6: not have fenders. When the bridge was built in nineteen

654
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 6: seventy seven, I think they didn't have ships as big

655
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 6: and powerful as we have now, so bridges were constructed differently.

656
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 6: It's really expensive to retrofit bridges for that type of thing.

657
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 6: The other question a lot of people have is the tugboats.

658
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 6: John Conrad made a really interesting point that so actually

659
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 6: the tugboats did escort the bridge. You're not required to

660
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 6: have a tugboat escore escort under the Key Bridge. Interestingly enough,

661
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 6: and Baltimore, john Conrad said, is not alone in releasing

662
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 6: the tugboats early. It's also something that happens, for example,

663
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 6: in San Diego with the beautiful Coronado Bridge in the

664
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 6: Port of San Diego. So big questions about how many

665
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 6: different ports are now going to be requiring those tug

666
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 6: boat escorts. It does seem like why would you not

667
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 6: have the tugboat escort. At the same time, it also

668
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 6: seems like this was like a one in a million chants.

669
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 6: I'm usually that, you know, just as a phrase. I

670
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 6: don't have any idea what the actual chance is, but

671
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 6: one in a million chants that you have this ship

672
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 6: drifting exactly at the point that it did into exactly

673
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 6: that part of the bridge, the pier basically and hitting

674
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 6: it the way that it.

675
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 4: Did, right.

676
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 7: And I feel bad for some of these bridge experts

677
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 7: because we don't really need I'm glad. We heard from

678
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 7: your dad and we tried to get him off, but

679
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 7: you said that he probably wouldn't be He probably wouldn't

680
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 7: be into it.

681
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 4: We'd love to have him on at some point in

682
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 4: the future if we can talk him into it.

683
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 7: But we also we a thousand foot bridge loaded up

684
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 7: with stuff going something like eight knots into any bridge

685
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 7: anywhere is.

686
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 4: Going to take it out.

687
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 7: No amount of fenders, no amount of bumpers, like, there's

688
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 7: nothing you can do. I think, just as a jobs program,

689
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 7: I think requiring them all to have tugboats would would

690
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 7: be a good idea. A bunch of my friends from

691
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 7: the Eastern Shore worked on.

692
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 4: Tugboats and they're there.

693
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 7: There are great jobs for like single men in their

694
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 7: twenties and thirties, because you're on it for I said,

695
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 7: I mean some of them, some of them were not single.

696
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 7: But it's difficult for them because you're out for weeks

697
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 7: at a time. But and they're really difficult. Jobs are

698
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 7: tough on your body. But but you like make a

699
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 7: ton of money and like a six week stretch and

700
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 7: then you know then and then you're and then you're

701
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 7: back on.

702
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 6: Land and the below deck ritual basically yeah, and.

703
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 7: You're not gonna you can't you know, offshore those I

704
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 7: mean they're literally offshore, but not far offshore. But because

705
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 7: you're only doing the tug, you're only doing the tug operation,

706
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 7: you know, within several miles the harbor.

707
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 4: But yes, like if if these ships are going to.

708
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 7: Cut costs by us by not doing the proper maintenance

709
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 7: and by by otherwise, you know, not having enough redundancies

710
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 7: so that if you get a power outage, just float

711
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 7: into the pier or float into the bridge.

712
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 4: Uh, then you ought to have some.

713
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 7: Extra redundancies in the form of tugboats. Though they'd have

714
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 7: to be massive tugboats because these ships are so huge.

715
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 7: But maybe they can be big enough that they can

716
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 7: just just be enough to like slow you down.

717
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 4: Enough.

718
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 7: Credit though, to the crew for this the may Day

719
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 7: call that they that they put out for people who

720
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 7: haven't been following it closely.

721
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 4: They were able to get a may Day.

722
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 7: Call out, and uh, Maryland Police and Baltimore Police were

723
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 7: able to get to the bridge fast enough to make

724
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 7: sure that the traffic was stopped. You had there's there's

725
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 7: a radio call from one officer who says, all right,

726
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 7: I've got the traffic stopped. I've heard that there's a

727
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 7: construction crew on the bridge. I'm racing onto the bridge

728
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 7: to warn them, and just as he says that, he

729
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 7: hears back the bridge just collapsed. Yeah, so it just

730
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 7: wasn't enough time. It's a long bridge.

731
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 4: To those workers, it is. It's almost a two mile.

732
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 6: Bridge, right, Yeah, it's a massive bridge, and from the

733
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 6: aerial shots it almost makes it look it's hard to

734
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 6: have perspective on size when you have an aerial shot

735
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 6: like that where it's just water and a bridge, because

736
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 6: you know, it's just hard to compare to other things.

737
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: But it's a huge, huge bridge.

738
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 6: So even with the mayday call, and we can talk

739
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 6: about the mayday call in a second, because there were

740
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 6: all kinds of theories kind of bumping around yesterday, and

741
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 6: I don't blame X for any of that.

742
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: In particular.

743
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 6: I feel like even before X Ryan, you know, we'd

744
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 6: all be at bars, like speculating wildly about what happened,

745
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 6: because it is such a it looks like such a

746
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 6: one in a million chance. And again, many many ships

747
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 6: go through this port every single year. It's a very important.

748
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 6: I think it might be like the eighteenth most busy

749
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 6: port in the United States, some like eight hundred and

750
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 6: fifty thousand cars in particulars one thing that passed through

751
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 6: that port a lot. That's just in last year. So

752
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 6: let's let's take a listen to this clip from Fox Business.

753
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 6: This is Maria Barbiromo talking to Senator Rick Scott, and

754
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 6: B three is right.

755
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: This is yeah, she brings immigration into the conversation.

756
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 11: A Singaporean flagged container. But of course you've been talking

757
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 11: a lot about the potential for wrongdoing or potential for

758
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 11: foul play given the wide open border.

759
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 6: That is why you have.

760
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 11: Been so adamant. Why has the Republicans had such a

761
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 11: hard time securing this border. The President says he's not

762
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 11: going to take his executive action.

763
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 3: You know that.

764
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 4: Well, we all have to stand together.

765
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 7: We have to say that that it takes sixty.

766
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 4: Votes to pass anything in the Senate.

767
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 6: So I think that was like a kind of clumsy

768
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 6: attempt to pivot the conversation that she was having with

769
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 6: Rick Scott to immigration more than.

770
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 3: Like a conspiracy there.

771
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 6: He's like, you know, there's a possibility and everything like this.

772
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 4: All of us angors have made some awkward transitions.

773
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 6: That's what it seemed like, let's give her that one,

774
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,959
Speaker 6: but other people were dead serious about some of these comparisons.

775
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 6: In fact, so we can put B four up on

776
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 6: the screen. This is from Michael Flynn, and a lot

777
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 6: of people remember Michael Flynn from the Trump administration. He says,

778
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 6: this is a black Swan event. Black Swan's normally come

779
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 6: out of the world of finance, not military. The standard

780
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 6: operating procedures for all US ports, harbors and bays that transit,

781
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 6: commerce and military activities are supposed to maintain an incredible

782
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 6: level of discipline, rigor, and awareness for these very type

783
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 6: events to not occur. Ever, yet here we are there

784
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 6: are harbor masters for every single one of these transit

785
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 6: ports in America that are in charge of assuring the

786
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 6: safety of navigation.

787
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 3: Start there.

788
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 6: We can also then go to trying to say, so

789
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 6: I've saw like speculation along these letter.

790
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 4: I thought he was in prison.

791
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 7: Now, how's Andrew Tate out there becoming a shipping conspiracy expert.

792
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 6: There were a lot of shipping conspiracy experts yesterday, and

793
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 6: you know, I saw conspiracy theories that weren't totally explicit,

794
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 6: but that were kind of floated along those lines or

795
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 6: just uh, conversations about what could have happened and how could.

796
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 7: They packed and like look how it like look how

797
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 7: the Chinese took the power down and the propelled it

798
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 7: right into the bridge, like all kinds.

799
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't find a nonsense.

800
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't disagree.

801
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 6: We were talking earlier that this is like extremely unusual

802
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 6: thing that happened, but explicable, right right, So you know,

803
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 6: there there, it seems like there are pretty obvious explanations

804
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 6: for exactly what happened so far. And that's not to

805
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 6: say that either of us put it past our government

806
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 6: to be involved in some shady business, but it looks

807
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 6: very clear like that's not what happened here. I don't

808
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 6: begrudge people for asking questions at all, because trust in

809
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 6: government is extremely low, not just among members of the public,

810
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 6: but among members of the media ryan including US.

811
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 7: And let's put let's put B six up to talking

812
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 7: about trust in government.

813
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 4: This is a from the Lever.

814
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 7: FEDS recently hit Cargo Giant in Baltimore Disaster for silencing whistleblowers.

815
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 7: So this is a piece that looked at government documents

816
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 7: from the Department of Labor that found that.

817
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 4: The company that runs this runs.

818
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 7: This ship had recently, about eight months ago or so,

819
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 7: been hit by the Labor Department for this horrendous policy

820
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 7: that it had of preventing whistleblowers on its ships from

821
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 7: going directly to the Coastguard or to other authorities with

822
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 7: complaints and first having to route them through kind of

823
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 7: company management. One of the people that complained about safety

824
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 7: issues on one ship was subsequently fired, which you said

825
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 7: was retaliation, which the Department of Labor found to be

826
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 7: a credible claim and came sounds yeah, and came after

827
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 7: the company. And so you cannot do that, like you

828
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 7: have to have more serious safety measures in place here.

829
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 7: And so I think there's something interesting about the way

830
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 7: that our reaction wants to find some type of conspiracy

831
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 7: in this, because if there's a conspiracy, that implies that

832
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 7: actually somebody is in control, like don't like we've got this,

833
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 7: like somebody's got this, you know, it's in that case, And.

834
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 6: It's like what Michael Flynn was saying exactly, was saying

835
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 6: that there are harbor masters.

836
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 7: But there are nefarious people are who have their hands

837
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 7: on all of this, and they use that control to

838
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 7: then create this disaster for some reason that we will

839
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,959
Speaker 7: then figure out later. But the assumption there is that

840
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 7: it's under control. That's a much more comforting thing to

841
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 7: tell ourselves. Then it's actually not under control because we've

842
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 7: allowed greedy corporations to take over our government and our

843
00:44:55,120 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 7: regulatory apparatuses, and these Singaporean ships that can have low

844
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 7: wage labor from you know, any anywhere anywhere in the

845
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 7: world without any kind of uh, you know, training or

846
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 7: other other requirements, and that they can fail to maintain

847
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 7: the ship such that it has a catastrophic power failure.

848
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 4: And crashes into the bridge.

849
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 7: Because knowing that we're we don't actually have control is

850
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 7: much more frightening to some of us than yes, there

851
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 7: are evil people who do have control, right.

852
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 6: And and knowing actually that sort of forces of oligarchy

853
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 6: are really in control in this like haphazard like cocktail

854
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 6: of different interests.

855
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 3: I think that's you know, maybe the scarious.

856
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 7: Thing, right exactly, because that's much harder to take on,

857
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 7: or at least it's harder to accept then, because if

858
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 7: you can, if you can find some QAnon type conspiracy here,

859
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 7: then at least you can then tell yourself that you've

860
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 7: kind of figured it out, rather than you live in

861
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 7: a world where these oligarchs are are chipping away at

862
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 7: your ability to you know, regulate safety in a way

863
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 7: that just keeps people basically safe. And then, of course, uh,

864
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 7: it being Twitter, the racism surfaced and bubbled all the

865
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 7: way to the top. A couple a couple of tweets,

866
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 7: you know, really ricocheted around. We can put up B

867
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 7: two here, which is this is uh, this is Baltimore

868
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 7: may Or Brand and Scott speaking at a press conference,

869
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 7: and you had not just this account, but a decent

870
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 7: number of them saying this is Baltimore's DEI mayor commenting

871
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 7: on the collapse to Francis Scott keat Bridge, it's going

872
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 7: to get so so much worse.

873
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 4: Prepare accordingly?

874
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 10: Uh?

875
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 7: And then I think, uh, B five if you can

876
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 7: throw B five up there. D I did this as

877
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 7: another just another clown on Twitter, but it represented a

878
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 7: reaction that that you did see.

879
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 4: And because of Twitter's new.

880
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 7: Kind of algorithmic efforts that where you can you know,

881
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 7: pay to get your your racism boosted. Uh, it became

882
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 7: a thing that people were you know, talking talking talking about.

883
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 6: Uh.

884
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 7: First of all, can I say, Brandon Scott, an illustrious

885
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 7: graduate of my alma mater, Saint Mary's College of Maryland. Wow,

886
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 7: I've been following his career, uh as he rose up

887
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 7: through Baltimore politics proudly.

888
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 3: Interesting.

889
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 7: He's class two thousand and six, so he was he

890
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 7: was six years younger. He six years younger than me,

891
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 7: but he would have overlapped my brother, who was class

892
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 7: of vote four. Interesting, the same college. So Brandon Scott

893
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 7: graduate of the best college in America, Saint Mary's College

894
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 7: of Maryland.

895
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 4: So you know, how dare anybody come at him?

896
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 7: But also, uh, he there was nothing like he gave

897
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 7: an eloquent performance. Uh it's like cold out, so he's

898
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 7: got a jacket on, and like, what's what's your problem

899
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 7: other than the fact that he's black and d e?

900
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 7: I like, do do people think that a firm of

901
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 7: action is required for there to be.

902
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 4: A black mayor in Baltimore?

903
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 6: Well?

904
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 4: Are people this stupid?

905
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 6: Yeah?

906
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 7: I mean it's a population of Baltimore is about sixty

907
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 7: five percent. I think he won with like seventy five

908
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 7: percent of the vote.

909
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 6: I think it's just like, yes, I think unfortunately that

910
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 6: conflation is now happening.

911
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 4: That's what di I means to people now.

912
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 6: Although I tend to blame like insist people who insist

913
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 6: on affirmative action, as a lot of Black Americans do,

914
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 6: for casting that like stereotype of putting people in that

915
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 6: unfortunate position of like, oh, you're successful in black you

916
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 6: must be a product of affirmative acts.

917
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,959
Speaker 7: Otherwise Baltimore would have just the greatest white mayor ever.

918
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 4: What was the guy, the guy from the wire, Yeah,

919
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 4: he would be great.

920
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 6: But the DEI thing actually, at one point on that is,

921
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 6: you know, the David serote a piece in the lever

922
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 6: that you were just talking about. I think there's a

923
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 6: really a very legitimate argument about DEI and American infrastructure,

924
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 6: and like, I get that. I think we have funneled

925
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 6: an absurd amount of resources that could have been spent

926
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 6: in other places into some of these into some of

927
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 6: these different initiatives, corporate initiatives, municipal initiatives, and I think

928
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 6: our resources probably could have been better spent elsewhere, like

929
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 6: millions billions of dollars.

930
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 3: Just I think that is a very real thing.

931
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 6: But I also think if people who are just sort

932
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 6: of like throwing DEI out there constantly actually put as

933
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 6: much effort and thought as Serda does into examining how

934
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 6: corporate interests are like influencing this in a sort of

935
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 6: financial way. There's even deeper elements to the story. I mean,

936
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 6: as Saroda discovered in this case very quickly, he was

937
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 6: able to put this story together that like, there are

938
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 6: economic forces that you know, push and it's not to

939
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 6: say that people aren't talking about the confluence of like

940
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:03,959
Speaker 6: aligarch and culture dei stuff, but in this case there

941
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 6: are actual oligarchs that allow these things to happen. And

942
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 6: we don't know the full story here yet. We do

943
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 6: know that this boat had problems inspection recently in Chile,

944
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 6: I think just in the last year. There are problems raised,

945
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 6: not in.

946
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 7: A crash into a peer in Brussels, I think, notre

947
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 7: crashing to appear somewhere in Europe in twenty sixteen.

948
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 6: And Conrad John Conrad was talking about from g captain

949
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 6: points out, but it's not again, it's not uncommon for

950
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 6: ships that fail different parts of their inspections to keep

951
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 6: operating if they don't rise to the level that's you know,

952
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 6: a serious threat. But that's the interesting part about this

953
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 6: conversation on corporate interests is that for different corporations I

954
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 6: think Boeing is a really good example some of these

955
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 6: failures that can lead to loss of life, that can

956
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 6: lead to huge infrastructure costs. We're not going to see

957
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 6: all of the I mean, traffic in Baltimore is going

958
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 6: to be a nightmare.

959
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 3: For people for the foresee future.

960
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 6: We're rerouting all of these car shipment, sugar, all of

961
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 6: these things that go through the Port of Baltimore are

962
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 6: going to be like routed on A ninety five, which

963
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 6: is going to probably cause worse in traffic for.

964
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 3: You know, regular people up and down the.

965
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 6: Sort of a Cela corridor as it's called in the

966
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 6: upcoming months. But the problem is the cost of doing

967
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 6: business has become such that, you know, some of these

968
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 6: major corporations sacrifice these potential calamities as just like a

969
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 6: cost of doing business. You know, like it's this, it

970
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 6: could happen, but we can save money, and it probably won't.

971
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 6: If it does, we'll pay for it. We'll take the

972
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 6: public relations hit because we can afford it, and that

973
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 6: will allow us to keep doing business.

974
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 7: And on your d iPoint, I have a slightly different

975
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,479
Speaker 7: takelethough you might agree with it to it, I think

976
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 7: that there was an actual cost to Corporate America to

977
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 7: maintaining the kind of WASP cartel that it had for

978
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 7: so many times. There was actual racism for many decades

979
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 7: in the leadership of corporate America, which which still exists,

980
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 7: and made those corporations less effective because it coddled underperforming

981
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 7: wasps and it kept out higher performing non wasps. What

982
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 7: the way that the way that DEI plays plays into this, though,

983
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 7: is too often you'll bring in a DEI consultant after

984
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 7: you get accused of some type of racial injustice inside

985
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 7: your corporation.

986
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 4: And that will be your answer.

987
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 7: Rather than making structural reforms that may make you an

988
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 7: actually better corporation. It's people in power will say, all right, well,

989
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 7: we're going to have these consultants come in for two

990
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 7: days and you're going to examine your internalized racisms, which

991
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 7: is much more comfortable for a corporation to ask you

992
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 7: to do than to examine the externalized corporate racism at

993
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 7: work or or what the corporation is actually doing.

994
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 4: In the world.

995
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so to the extent that it furthers the

996
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 7: the kind of lack of diversity and the lack of

997
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 7: racial justice inside an organization, it ends up it ends

998
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 7: up being harmful, but then you have the reverse critique

999
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 7: from actual racists who are like, oh, DEI just means

1000
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 7: black in my mind.

1001
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 6: I think there's another important point in all of this

1002
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 6: about so I I was asking my dad about the

1003
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 6: state of bridges overall in America, because that was a

1004
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 6: huge conversation yesterday, especially when before we totally knew what

1005
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 6: had happened. There's tons of speculation about the bridges. And

1006
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 6: he described it as he said, it's safe, but they

1007
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 6: need maintenance. That was like his overall take. The bridges

1008
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 6: in America are safe, but they generally need maintenance. And

1009
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 6: I think that's probably going to prove to have been

1010
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 6: true with the friends to Scott Key Bridge. It may

1011
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 6: have needed the cost of being retro fitted with giant fenders.

1012
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 6: Whether the fenders actually would have stopped that boat is

1013
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 6: a huge question. Like it's pretty it looks like a

1014
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 6: thing would have stopped the boat from causing that bridge

1015
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 6: if you hit the pier like that to collapse. That

1016
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 6: said John Conrad points out he quote tweeted somebody who

1017
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 6: found that at one point it just like an old

1018
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 6: It looks like it's an old newspaper blurb that that

1019
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 6: bridge could have actually been a tunnel. That some people

1020
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 6: said that this should have been a tunnel instead of

1021
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 6: a bridge, but the bridge was just easier, it was

1022
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 6: more cost effective at the time. And this is going

1023
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 6: all the way back to that.

1024
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 7: There you go, good call, like there already is a

1025
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 7: harbor tunnel. Maybe when they rebuild it, they'll do another

1026
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 7: harbor tunnel. The clip you saw Biden at the beginning

1027
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 7: was him saying that feds are going to pick this up.

1028
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 7: Nice if they found the singapore and billionaire and had

1029
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 7: him pay for that.

1030
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 6: Yes, it looks like, you know, the main questions here

1031
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 6: should be directed towards what happened with the ship, and

1032
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 6: that's where our focus should be going forward now. Still,

1033
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 6: as Baltimore rebuilds over the course of my gosh, I

1034
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 6: can't imagine how long this is going to take. That

1035
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 6: in and of itself is a big story. Conrad pointing

1036
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 6: out in another tweet that other countries can rebuild these

1037
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 6: types of this type of infrastructure much more quickly than

1038
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 6: we can at this point. But I mean, it's just

1039
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 6: our system is not optimizing the potential of our workers

1040
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 6: in the United States of our It's just it's not,

1041
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,439
Speaker 6: and it hasn't been for some time.

1042
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 7: Your friend of the show, Matt Iglesias, had been joking

1043
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 7: earlier that the US should hire Hamas to like work

1044
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 7: on our subways. Given the effective kind of tunnel structures

1045
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 7: they built, have them do the Harbor tunnel. I mean,

1046
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 7: imagine what they could do without like having to smuggle

1047
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 7: everything in the impressive work, right.

1048
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 6: I don't know if I should dignify this with the rest.

1049
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 7: Anyway, Thank you to the control room for that one,

1050
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 7: because we've moved to all those elements all over the

1051
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 7: place I was around.

1052
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 4: You guys were on top of it, very much appreciated.

1053
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 4: Let's move on to Ron McDaniel.

1054
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 6: Let's move on to RFK JR R Junior. Okay, two

1055
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,240
Speaker 6: friends of the show. It's easy to confuse. Who among

1056
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 6: us has not confused RFK Junior and Ron McDaniel. Big

1057
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 6: newsweek for both of them, Yes, indeed. But RFK Junior

1058
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 6: yesterday announced his vice presidential running mate. There were some

1059
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 6: interesting reactions that we're going to get to in a second,

1060
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 6: but let's start here with C one. This is a

1061
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 6: clip from the announcement RFK Junior made just yesterday.

1062
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 12: I'm so proud to introduce to you the next Vice

1063
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 12: President of the United States, my fellow lawyer, a brilliant scientist, technologist,

1064
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 12: fears warrior mom, Nicola shanahand.

1065
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 6: So Peter Hanby pointed out, this is C two. We

1066
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 6: can put it on the screen. Some reactions, just among

1067
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 6: RFK Junior's online based to this pick of Nicole Shanahan

1068
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 6: were immediately negative. One person said, Kirsten Cinema would have

1069
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 6: been like a million times better. Just one person said,

1070
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,720
Speaker 6: Tulsi excellent exclamation points. Now, one person did say Nicole

1071
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 6: has a heart of gold. Someone said, terrible pick improves

1072
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 6: how meaningless words can be. This is some.

1073
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 3: Clear sexism there.

1074
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 6: Actually when it says, well, I'm not even going to

1075
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 6: read it, but Shanahan is right out of globalist central

1076
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 6: casting was another reaction. And you know, people might say

1077
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 6: that online reactions not representative of the broader population, which

1078
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 6: is absolutely online reaction, although in that case it's it

1079
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 6: is also true that he has a huge proportion of

1080
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 6: his supporters are the types of people that are frankly

1081
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 6: commenting on videos like we put out like he put

1082
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 6: out right there, So there is something representative about it

1083
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 6: in that sense. But Ryan, what did you make of

1084
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 6: the announcement yesterday?

1085
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 7: The person who said she's out of this like w

1086
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 7: E F Central Casting kind of hits the hits the

1087
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 7: nail on the head. It's the kind of person who

1088
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 7: was gravitating towards RFK Junior after he made his campaign

1089
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 7: focused on independent media. Basically, yes, you know, when went

1090
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 7: around the gatekeepers in the mainstream media.

1091
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 4: Uh right, smart, smart play.

1092
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 7: That kind of person does not like the profile of Nicole.

1093
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 4: Shanahan, who no so right.

1094
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 7: So the number one thing, as people said that they

1095
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 7: know her from is she was the husband Sorgey Brent,

1096
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 7: which is sound sexist to say, but in general that's correct,

1097
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 7: Like he's.

1098
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 6: Ultra powerful and famous. So yeah, the association I think

1099
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 6: is entirely fair.

1100
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 4: Right. And she's a patent attorney.

1101
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 7: I guarantee if I had a patent case that I needed,

1102
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 7: I couldn't do any better than her. I'm sure she's

1103
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 7: an incredible patent attorney, but thirty something patent attorney is

1104
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 7: generally not the kind of bio that we think of

1105
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 7: for Okay, well.

1106
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 4: That person should be therefore be vice president.

1107
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 7: Amusingly, from my perspective, like she funds all sorts of

1108
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 7: causes that I'm all about climate change stuff, progressive prosecutors,

1109
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 7: criminal justice, reform, reproductive justice, and so for if you're

1110
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 7: if you were kind of a Trump curious but didn't

1111
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,919
Speaker 7: like Trump type of person who was then gravitating towards

1112
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 7: RFK Junior, a lot of those things are gonna are

1113
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 7: gonna turn you off from from her.

1114
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 4: Uh.

1115
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 7: The thing that she was in the press for was

1116
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 7: then the divorce from Sergey Brinn, which, because we can

1117
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 7: put this next element up on the screen, according to

1118
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 7: the Wall Street Journal, Elon Musk's friendship with Sergey Brin

1119
00:59:58,160 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 7: ruptured by alleged affair.

1120
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 4: Now, both Shanahan and.

1121
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 7: Musk have denied that there was an affair, but there's

1122
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 7: also been reporting that Musk like got down on one

1123
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 7: knee at a party and apologized to his good friend

1124
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 7: Sergei Brynn for it. They were divorced within weeks of it.

1125
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 7: It almost feels perfectly fitting for our time that the

1126
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 7: kind of choice of the independent space would be linked

1127
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 7: to billionaires and involved in all sorts of drama, because

1128
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 7: that kind of is what our kind of online politics is,

1129
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 7: you know, drama and billionaires.

1130
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:43,479
Speaker 3: Actually that's a really good well to that point.

1131
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 6: I was actually going to say, it reminds me of

1132
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 6: the tension also between sort of like og Silicon Valley

1133
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 6: and post Obama Silicon Valley, where at first you see

1134
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 6: yourselves as like the pirates and the disruptors, and now

1135
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 6: it's like, well, you are now the man. It's not

1136
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 6: screw the man anymore, fight the man. It is you.

1137
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 3: You're the man.

1138
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 6: And to Ela Musk sort of walks that fine line

1139
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 6: in interesting way while like constantly criticizing US foreign policy

1140
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 6: but also being a major defense contractor and having all

1141
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 6: of these like various interests going on.

1142
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 3: But with Shanahan, the point.

1143
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 6: You made about how if you're someone that's uncomfortable with

1144
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 6: Trump is I think it could actually be a preview

1145
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 6: of the RFK Junior strategy to come and an example

1146
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 6: of why I think Biden is increasingly worried about RFK Junior.

1147
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 6: I know people didn't the DNC actually do like a

1148
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 6: press call yesterday amid the announcement, which would be unusual

1149
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 6: for a third party candidate to have. The DNC Liz

1150
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 6: Smith is running that effort now, right, Yeah, Like they've fancy.

1151
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 4: Third party effort.

1152
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 6: They've steered some real resources into this, and I think

1153
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 6: that's because he's around nine point nine percent I think

1154
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 6: in the RCP national average when you put Cornell West,

1155
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 6: who I think is that like two percent in the

1156
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 6: RCPN I average, and then there's another like one point

1157
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 6: something percent for Jill Stein in there. If that remained

1158
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 6: constant going into election day, and rf K Junior is

1159
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 6: able to pour vast resources into a state like Nevada

1160
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 6: where he's on the ballot, imagine Jill Stein, but Jill

1161
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 6: Stein with way more like a higher proportion of the

1162
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 6: vote in Pennsylvania in twenty sixteen, justin Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

1163
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 6: So we'll see, you know, ultimately how many states he's

1164
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 6: able to get on the ballot in. But I think,

1165
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 6: you know, him going with somebody that has real sort

1166
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 6: of progressive bonafides is a pretty interesting signal that he's

1167
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 6: going to make a real push for those voters. And

1168
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 6: I also have continue to have the theory that as

1169
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 6: soon as Donald Trump turns to RFK Junior in earnest

1170
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 6: like really starts pushing back on RFK Junior, if he's

1171
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:53,919
Speaker 6: worried about losing some of his own supporters to him,

1172
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 6: that will also highlight RFK Junior's progressive bona fides, because,

1173
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 6: as you know as well as anybody, he was kind

1174
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 6: of a mainstream dude in progressive circles for a long time,

1175
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 6: someone that was like.

1176
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 7: He became fringe also with vaccine stuff, with vaccines smother conspiracy,

1177
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 7: but he.

1178
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:15,440
Speaker 6: Was still showing up at the events.

1179
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 4: He was like in this persona grata.

1180
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, persona grata. That's a good way to put it.

1181
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 6: And so I think it if Donald well, right, if

1182
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 6: Donald Trump starts talking about how r f K Junior

1183
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 6: is like an environmentalist whose pro regulation and pro medicare

1184
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 6: for all and all of that. I don't know what

1185
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 6: the Trump attacks will look like, although we've seen a

1186
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 6: little preview of it. That also reminds some potential Biden

1187
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 6: voters that urf K Junior has like decades of work

1188
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 6: in that space in ways that they might really like.

1189
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 6: So maybe it's maybe it's a smarter pick than people realize,

1190
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 6: because is he going to lose some of his hardcore

1191
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 6: fans over a weird vice presidential pick that they're unhappy with?

1192
01:03:58,000 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1193
01:03:58,640 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 4: I would, I would think he would.

1194
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 7: The informed speculation though, of why would he do this.

1195
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 7: Number one answer that you've seen from people who have

1196
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 7: some clue on this is that when she went through

1197
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 7: her divorce publicly, it's known that she asked for a

1198
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 7: billion dollars went through arbitration.

1199
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 4: We don't know exactly what she got. We know that

1200
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 4: she got a lot of money.

1201
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 7: She financed the Super Bowl ad that RFK Junior later

1202
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 7: apologized for.

1203
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 4: Remember that one.

1204
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 7: But there is a you can call it a loophole

1205
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 7: in campaign finance that says that if you are on

1206
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 7: a ticket, you can spend an unlimited amount of your

1207
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 7: own money. So she could have from the outside done

1208
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 7: an RFK Junior super pack. They get they don't get

1209
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 7: favorable rates, they can't coordinate with the campaign with her

1210
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 7: on the ticket. If she gives a hundred million dollars

1211
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 7: to the campaign, the campaign can directly spend that hundred

1212
01:04:58,120 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 7: million dollars.

1213
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 4: So that is the number one benefit SHO offers.

1214
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 7: The second one is this looks like RFK Junior has

1215
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 7: long ago given up on the idea that he's going

1216
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 7: to win the presidency and is making sure that he

1217
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 7: will still be a palatable kind of social figure when

1218
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 7: he returns to Los Angeles and Silicon Valley after this

1219
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 7: to have somebody that is well regarded in that community

1220
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 7: as his running mate. I'm not sure if that calculation

1221
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 7: is correct, because if he well, different elements of Silicon Valley,

1222
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 7: different elements of LA have different hopes coming out of

1223
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 7: this presidential election. You know, some of them are fine

1224
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 7: with Trump, but the elements that are not fine with Trump,

1225
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 7: if they blame him for swinging the election to Trump,

1226
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 7: doesn't matter who his running mate's going to be, He's

1227
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 7: not gonna get those dinner party invites.

1228
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting. That is really interesting because you'd think these.

1229
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 4: Are the risks that our public servants take them.

1230
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 6: Although I do I still maintain that people who are

1231
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 6: making fundamentally making protest votes are not making protest votes

1232
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 6: based on VP picks. But there are people with this sense.

1233
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 6: It can contribute to people making an argument that they

1234
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 6: trusted RFK Junior sort of anti establishment streak, and then

1235
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 6: when they.

1236
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 3: See his position on Israel or they see who he

1237
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 3: picks as a.

1238
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 6: VP candidate, it makes the it hurts his credibility as

1239
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 6: like an anti establishment guy, and so it can contribute

1240
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 6: to that broader narrative that a lot of people have

1241
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 6: started picking up on and that's frustrated a lot of

1242
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:31,439
Speaker 6: potential RFK junior voters. Again, it's not a huge lights

1243
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 6: of the population, although I continue to think that it

1244
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 6: can be a huge part of some of these these

1245
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 6: key states and does pose a real threat to Biden's reelection.

1246
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 7: It's I do think there's a counterfactual history where he

1247
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 7: could have been a credible candidate if he if he

1248
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 7: flowed out of the RFK senior in anti war, if

1249
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 7: he carried that mantle.

1250
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 3: Which he tried to do until October, which he did.

1251
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 7: Which he did right with Ukraine and otherwise saying the

1252
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 7: US needs US, empire needs to you know, mind his

1253
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 7: business like that's a that plus like progressive domestic policy

1254
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 7: is is a potent combination for independent voters and for

1255
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 7: a lot of a lot of Democrats and Republicans who

1256
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 7: are not locked in on their party. But yeah, after

1257
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 7: October seventh, you know, he he happens to be a

1258
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 7: very strident Zionist who was out of the gate, you know,

1259
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 7: sales interviews here and elsewhere, who was out of the gate, unapologetically,

1260
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 7: unconditionally supportive of Israel and willing to give as much

1261
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 7: American support to Israel as possible, and so that that lane.

1262
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 4: Was no longer kind of available to him. But I think.

1263
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 7: There is a world with the combination of his name

1264
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 7: and that positioning that he could be polling in the

1265
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 7: thirties and then he's with three people in the race.

1266
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 7: Then you're you're you're in the ball game at that point,

1267
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 7: because then all these other people who reluctantly are voting

1268
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 7: for Trump or reluctantly are voting for Biden are like,

1269
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 7: oh wait, this is not a protest vote. Yeah, I

1270
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 7: can actually vote for this guy. But also the voice,

1271
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 7: the voice is I'm sorry. People don't want to hear

1272
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 7: that for four years and it's a health condition. It's

1273
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 7: terrible to say, but it's a huge obstacle for him.

1274
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 6: I'm just seeing a Charlie kirkweet that's upset about the

1275
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 6: land acknowledgment that the VP of ARFA Junior's VP announcement

1276
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 6: opened with. We kind of teased that earlier, but yes,

1277
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 6: a Native American tribe did give a land acknowledgment before

1278
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,799
Speaker 6: they started, and this is indicative of and actually apparently

1279
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 6: that was at his campaign lunch too. According to Brent

1280
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 6: Share of the Daily Wire. This is I think indicative

1281
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 6: of the really tough road. It's sort of like what

1282
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders had to deal with with some of the

1283
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 6: cultural issues in twenty sixteen and then in twenty twenty,

1284
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 6: but it's on a much, much much like intensified scale,

1285
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 6: when you have someone like he's on independent media all

1286
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,640
Speaker 6: the time, like openly criticizing, aggressively criticizing some of the

1287
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 6: culture warriors on the left. I agree, I mean he is.

1288
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 6: There have been some polls that find him around thirty

1289
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 6: percent or higher with young voters that could have been

1290
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:10,799
Speaker 6: reflected in the broader population.

1291
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 3: I still have a lot of respect for the campaign

1292
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 3: that he's running.

1293
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 6: I'm curious to see what kind of course correction, if

1294
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 6: any course correction, or even just pouring more money into

1295
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 6: those nostalgic ads. I'm curious to see what's ahead. I

1296
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:28,799
Speaker 6: still think he's even all of these divisions. The demand

1297
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 6: for a protest vote right now, even if it's literally uncommitted,

1298
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 6: just the bland phrase uncommitted, is so high that he

1299
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 6: could do a lot of damage to Biden.

1300
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 7: Now, there was also a chance that he might have

1301
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 7: discovered a preternatural political talent who is going to take

1302
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 7: the world by storm. Let's roll a little bit of

1303
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 7: Nicole Shanahan's speech and let you decide whether or not

1304
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 7: you think he discovered that people talk.

1305
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:58,759
Speaker 10: About my age. It's true. I will be the youngest

1306
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 10: vice president of America history. Let me tell you why

1307
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 10: so many of us young people have turned away from politics.

1308
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 10: It's because we lost hope that change would ever come

1309
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 10: from inside the system. After all, which party wins with

1310
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 10: promises of hope and change or to drain the swamp?

1311
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 10: Things proceed as usual, declining bit by bit each passion

1312
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 10: passing year. So that's the reason. But the other reason

1313
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 10: is that we can't stand the phoniness anymore. We can't

1314
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 10: stand the lies, we can't stand the inauthenticity. And that's

1315
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 10: why Bobby Kennedy leads in all the polls among young people.

1316
01:10:58,040 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 10: We are hearing our voice in.

1317
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 4: His that as effective as speech as I deliver.

1318
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,480
Speaker 6: Up there, I think it's a youth uprising.

1319
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,640
Speaker 7: That's right, say if she counts as youth, so do

1320
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 7: I Let me tell you what the youths are thinking about.

1321
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 6: Go to Ryan for all of your gen Z pop

1322
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 6: culture questions. There you go, all right, should we move

1323
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:23,719
Speaker 6: on to Ronal McDaniel.

1324
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 4: Let's do it.

1325
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:26,600
Speaker 6: Hell of a week for Ronald McDaniel, Hell of a

1326
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 6: week over at NBC News.

1327
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 4: Ronal McDaniel's out.

1328
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 7: We put up this first element here that one of

1329
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 7: the briefest tenures as an NBC News analyst in NBC

1330
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 7: News analyst history. I would think she did one interview

1331
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 7: with Kristen Welker, a bit of a grilling on the

1332
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,599
Speaker 7: Sunday Show, and that was it. Now she'll still get paid,

1333
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 7: is my understanding her entire contract because they don't.

1334
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 6: That's what happened to Magan Kelly two.

1335
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 7: Yes, because they don't have a justification other than oh,

1336
01:11:58,360 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 7: that was a mistake.

1337
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 3: It turns out employs are mad.

1338
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 4: Terms out everybody is mad about this.

1339
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 6: Internally, nothing changed, Yeah, Like Ryan McDaniel didn't say anything new.

1340
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 6: That's agree to us that anybody's taking issue with it

1341
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 6: was Chuck Tudd and Joscarborough have said basically they would

1342
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 6: have objected before.

1343
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,719
Speaker 3: The announcement was even made. That's out there in the open.

1344
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 6: So it's a pretty good case for no real reason

1345
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 6: to drop the contract in a way that would take

1346
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 6: funning away from her. So there's an interesting part of

1347
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 6: Rachel Maddow's long rant about the hiring of Rona McDaniels

1348
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 6: that now in light of McDaniel's firing, I think is

1349
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 6: perhaps worth revisiting. This is Rachel Mattow talking specifically about

1350
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:39,839
Speaker 6: the distinction between NBC and MSNBC on her show earlier

1351
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 6: this week.

1352
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 13: It's my understanding that MSNBC's leadership did not object to

1353
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 13: Ronal McDaniel being hired by NBC News when the matter

1354
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:53,600
Speaker 13: first arose, But when the hiring was announced and MSNBC

1355
01:12:53,800 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 13: staff essentially unanimously and instantly expressed outrage, our leadership at

1356
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 13: MSNBC heard us, understood, and adjusted course. We were told

1357
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 13: this weekend, in clear terms, ron A McDaniel will not

1358
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 13: be on our air. Roni McDaniel will not be on MSNBC.

1359
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 13: And I say that and give you that level of detail,

1360
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,839
Speaker 13: because there has been an effort since by other parts

1361
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 13: of the company to muddy that up in the press

1362
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 13: and make it seem like that's not what happened at MSNBC.

1363
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,640
Speaker 4: I can assure you that is what happened at MSNBC.

1364
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:32,719
Speaker 5: If you care what I think about.

1365
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 13: This, I will tell you the fact that ms McDaniel

1366
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 13: is on the payroll at NBC News.

1367
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:40,520
Speaker 4: To me, that is inexplicable.

1368
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 6: I mean, you wouldn't.

1369
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 5: You wouldn't.

1370
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 4: You wouldn't hire.

1371
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 13: Like a wise guy. You wouldn't hire a made man

1372
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 13: like a mobster to work at a DA's office, right,

1373
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 13: you wouldn't hire a pickpocket to work as a TSA screener.

1374
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 13: And so I find the decision to put her.

1375
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 4: On the payroll inexplicable.

1376
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 6: Okay, Right, something really interesting there that gets to the

1377
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 6: heart of the story where she's saying, you wouldn't hire

1378
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:09,799
Speaker 6: a pickpocket to work out I think she says TSA

1379
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 6: in the clip. But you know, in journalism you would

1380
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 6: interview the pickpocket, right, That's kind of part of the job.

1381
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 6: If you have a massive surge in retail theft, which

1382
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 6: some cities actually have been dealing with recently, you might

1383
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 6: want to get the perspective of the thieves. So even

1384
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 6: if I buy her comparison, and by the way, I

1385
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 6: would apply that to literally all politicians they constantly. Joy

1386
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 6: Reid said on MSNBC, we want more Republicans on MSNBC,

1387
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 6: give me more. This is a real quote. Adam Kinsinger's

1388
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 6: and Liz Cheney's also pickpockets. By the way, Nicole Wallace,

1389
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 6: who lied about the Iraq War for the Bush administration,

1390
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 6: hosts a show on MSNBC. So while we are drawing

1391
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 6: red lines in the sand at anybody who could potentially

1392
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:56,120
Speaker 6: be the pickpocket, come on, give me a break. I'm

1393
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 6: not sure that MSNBC or NBC News is in any

1394
01:14:58,920 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 6: position to do that.

1395
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, and she also said, you wouldn't have the mafia

1396
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 7: come and work with the prosecutors. But actually, when you

1397
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,800
Speaker 7: set up the SEC they had Joe Kennedy run it,

1398
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 7: who was mob linked and was brought in because he.

1399
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 4: Was one of the most corrupt kind of traders.

1400
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 6: You can say that you're also Irish.

1401
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 7: There you go otherwise. Yeah, exactly, it's in the family.

1402
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,440
Speaker 7: But look at the people who are complaining. Joe Scarborough,

1403
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 7: Republican Congressman Mika Brazinski, the daughter of Spring News to Brazinski,

1404
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 7: one of the most bloodthirsty kind of imperialists that the

1405
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 7: that our government produced in the twentieth century.

1406
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 4: And yeah, like you said, Nicole Wallace, who George W.

1407
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 7: Bush, like all of those amaz NBC viewers at one

1408
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 7: point were chanting Bush lied, people died and Nicole Wallace

1409
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 7: was the one writing those lies and.

1410
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 4: Was the spokesperson for those lies.

1411
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:57,480
Speaker 7: You've got Jensaki, who was Obama and Biden partisan spokesperson.

1412
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 7: You know, most of spokespeople while wind up going to

1413
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:04,640
Speaker 7: one network or another. So clearly what they're saying is

1414
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 7: that that's okay. But Ronald McDaniel, this is beyond the

1415
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 7: pale basically because she was vaguely supportive or you know,

1416
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 7: do you tell me how supportive she was of kind

1417
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 7: of Trump's like January sixth insurrectionary activities.

1418
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what it all comes down to. This is

1419
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 6: how Jensaki actually explained that. Jensaki came out and addressed

1420
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 6: head on the.

1421
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 4: I'm a hack.

1422
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 6: Yeah, she was like, you know what, I'm here, right,

1423
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 6: She was like, you people have pointed out that I

1424
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,680
Speaker 6: work at me see and she was like, but it's

1425
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 6: different because of.

1426
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 3: Election denialism and ran I think.

1427
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 7: We've been circulated a clip of her pretending that the

1428
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 7: US never interferes with South American elections.

1429
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 3: Perfect.

1430
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 7: I mean, you can just there's such a wealth those elections.

1431
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 4: You can deny the.

1432
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 6: Things that they said. I saw clips going around the

1433
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 6: things that they said that you know, maybe they had

1434
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 6: good reason for saying them back in the early days

1435
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 6: of the pandemic, but that were I mean, Fauci is

1436
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 6: a great example, Fauci himself, like Nicole Wallace, Fauci, Adam Kinziger,

1437
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:15,520
Speaker 6: Liz Cheney, I mean, people who have trafficked in disinformation

1438
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 6: period that we don't draw the red line at. We're

1439
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 6: drawing the red line at this Trump insurrection, like well

1440
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 6: not even the insurrection, but like the Trump election denialism

1441
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,840
Speaker 6: as they call it, as Jensaki I think directly called

1442
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 6: it because RONI McDaniel flirted with it. The bad news

1443
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 6: for MSNBC is that Ron McDaniel is like moderately pro

1444
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 6: Trump compared to a lot of the Republican base, not

1445
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 6: all Republican voters, but Ron McDaniel I think, in her

1446
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 6: interview with Kristen Walker said something so gross. I don't

1447
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 6: know if you caught this part where and this is

1448
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 6: before she was fired, it was her first interview. It's

1449
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 6: when she's, you know, wants that three hundred thousand dollars,

1450
01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 6: wants to make a good impression, wants to get invited

1451
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 6: to the NBC Christmas Party or whatever, saying you know,

1452
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 6: when you are head of the r n C, when

1453
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:06,640
Speaker 6: you work for the party, you just got to take

1454
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 6: one for the team. And I can now be more myself.

1455
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 6: That's what she said, which is code for I lied

1456
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 6: for years to make Yes, I lied professionally for the

1457
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:21,720
Speaker 6: power and the money, and now I can get the

1458
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 6: power and the money.

1459
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:23,759
Speaker 3: But without lying.

1460
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 7: Why why would MSNBC viewers or NBC viewers want her

1461
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,840
Speaker 7: actual thoughts? Like who cares what her actual thoughts are

1462
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 7: to the extent that she's remotely interesting? Yeah, it's because

1463
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:39,600
Speaker 7: of her access to power. Yeah, and because of the

1464
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 7: insurrectionary support, Like that's those are the those are the

1465
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:44,559
Speaker 7: kinds of things that actually matter.

1466
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 4: Like what Ron McDaniel actually thinks about X, Y or

1467
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 4: Z issue is. I can't I can't begin.

1468
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 7: To imagine why that would be remotely interesting to anybody.

1469
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:57,400
Speaker 6: Yes, they actually should have They should have the guts

1470
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 6: to hire somebody who actually makes the journalism.

1471
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 4: Worthwhile or just interview them. Like that's the funniest thing.

1472
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,599
Speaker 7: Like you want Republicans or Democrats on your channel, right,

1473
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 7: just call them and they will come on because you

1474
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:12,599
Speaker 7: have millions of people watching you.

1475
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,519
Speaker 4: You don't actually have to pay them.

1476
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 6: It reminds me of The New York Times hiring James

1477
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 6: Bennett to run their opinion section so that he could

1478
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 6: bring more conservative voices on them, running a conservative piece

1479
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 6: by Tom Cotton, and then freaking firing James Bennett over it.

1480
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 6: This is the dumbest thing in the world. It's because

1481
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 6: they can't figure out their business model, Like the New

1482
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,160
Speaker 6: York Times hasn't realized that it now has to be.

1483
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 6: Instead of being like the paper of record that's responsive

1484
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:38,360
Speaker 6: to this broadswath of the public that reads it around

1485
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 6: the country, they're responsive to like the NPR topey crowd.

1486
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 3: Which creates a different business incentive.

1487
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 6: Like that's just a different You're not doing neutral news

1488
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 6: for all of America. In the new business model where

1489
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 6: mass media is dying, you're responsive to a different group

1490
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 6: of people. And so for the sake of like the journalism,

1491
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 6: the quote sacred airwaves that that's an actual just scription

1492
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 6: from Nicole Wallace, they purport to care about. You know,

1493
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 6: you would want to have someone even more hardcore.

1494
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 3: Than Rono McDaniel.

1495
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 6: You would want to have like an actual Trump twenty

1496
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 6: twenty election with stolen type of person on the show.

1497
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 6: Because if you're confident in you're fast, Steve, get on

1498
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:23,880
Speaker 6: that you can. But in all serious that's like normalize

1499
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:27,640
Speaker 6: the Steve Bannon on NBC because that's people don't need

1500
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 6: to be protected. What they need is to trust that

1501
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 6: the people who are saying Steve Bannon is wrong because

1502
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,679
Speaker 6: of A, B and C are themselves telling the truth

1503
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:40,800
Speaker 6: and are that those those disputes with Steve Bannon are

1504
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 6: rooted in something real. And now nobody trusts anyone. So

1505
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 6: when Steve Bannon says something that's wrong, it's like.

1506
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 3: Well, who do you trust? Do you trust him?

1507
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 6: Do you trust the people who are also wrong, who

1508
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 6: are saying he's wrong? Nobody knows who to trust. And

1509
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 6: one good way to build rebuild trust is to actually

1510
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:04,920
Speaker 6: like talk to people and figure that stuff out. And yes, agreed,

1511
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,800
Speaker 6: we solved the problem. Frond see, we do have one

1512
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 6: final element we can put up this screen.

1513
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 7: This is and relatedly, by the way, the biggest gift

1514
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 7: to Trump has been as deep platforming from liberal agree media.

1515
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:20,600
Speaker 6: And here's an example of corporate media not learning that

1516
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 6: lesson lesson. This is from Sarah Fisher at Axios last night.

1517
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 6: She reported that Caesar Conde of NBC Universal he's the

1518
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 6: chairman of the group, took full responsibility.

1519
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 3: He said he approved.

1520
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 6: Ron McDaniel's hiring, so that went all the way up,

1521
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 6: though unfortunately apparently not to Joe and Mika they had

1522
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:39,799
Speaker 6: no say in it. But you're right, Ryan, this massive

1523
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 6: effort to say, like we have guilt about Donald Trump

1524
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:45,680
Speaker 6: being elected in twenty sixteen, we think people need to

1525
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 6: be protected from Trump. We're not going to air his rallies.

1526
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 6: We're not going to let him say whatever the hell

1527
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 6: he wants to on Twitter or Facebook whatever. It has

1528
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 6: given so much credibility to Trump's claims of censorship.

1529
01:21:59,080 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 3: He is really extreme.

1530
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 7: And the more normally people see of Trump, the less

1531
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 7: they like him. The more he's in their face, the

1532
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 7: less go less they appreciate him. And when he's at

1533
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:08,680
Speaker 7: a distance, you're like, oh, well, that guy kind of

1534
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 7: funny and wages were good.

1535
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 6: True.

1536
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 7: But then he's get back in your face, You're like, oh, yeah,

1537
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 7: that's why I didn't like that guy. But the liberals,

1538
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 7: by keeping him off of Twitter and Facebook and kind

1539
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:23,919
Speaker 7: of keeping his antics away from people's faces, have actually

1540
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 7: done the thing that Trump's advisors had failed to do,

1541
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 7: which is to get Trump to just cool it and

1542
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 7: stop being such a freak all the time. So he

1543
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:35,679
Speaker 7: gets to be a freak all the time, but people

1544
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 7: don't see the freak outs.

1545
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 6: Yeah it's is this a Cory lewandowskiar State Bandon quote? Like,

1546
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 6: let Trump be Trump, don't try to make Trump someone else.

1547
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 6: That was like the Trump campaign.

1548
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:48,840
Speaker 3: Motto, but it should also be the anti Trump motto,

1549
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 3: because letting Trump be Trump is good.

1550
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 6: Actually more powerful, And if you have a good like

1551
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 6: if you're working with Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, it

1552
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 6: might be harder to control the opposition to Donald Trump.

1553
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 6: But most of the country doesn't like Donald Trump. So

1554
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 6: let Trump be Trump, and you just focus on doing

1555
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 6: a better job as the anti Trump side instead of

1556
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 6: clinging to the crutch of censorship and disinformation.

1557
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 7: Yeap, all right, So now we're going to move on

1558
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 7: to the segment that I've been waiting for because I

1559
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 7: am genuinely curious what the heck is going on on

1560
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,719
Speaker 7: conservative Twitter. I have some sense that it has something

1561
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:27,760
Speaker 7: to do with this Babylon b.

1562
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 4: Article.

1563
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:32,639
Speaker 7: So if you can put up this e one, they

1564
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 7: put out a headline the white race must maintain our

1565
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 7: genetic purity, says Inbred man over an image of a

1566
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 7: inbred man with a Nazi flag and a Confederate flag

1567
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 7: behind him inbread. Confederate supporters apparently took extraordinary offense to

1568
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 7: this or something, and so maybe this isn't even the

1569
01:23:56,080 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 7: thing that prompted this meltdown on conservative Twitter.

1570
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 4: I don't know. We put up E.

1571
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:07,599
Speaker 7: Two and then and then E three. Oh yeah, so here, well,

1572
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 7: so here, here's E two. You got people unfollowed discusting organization.

1573
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:16,719
Speaker 7: The Babylon b is is run by looks like Stara

1574
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 7: David there who often lashing out against Christians, like just

1575
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 7: the anti semitism and white nationalism just on display. Angry

1576
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 7: at the Babylon b I put up the next one

1577
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:32,600
Speaker 7: there at and you've got Ali BETSTUCKI who's been on

1578
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 7: this program. There is no way to explain to a

1579
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 7: normal person what's happening on conservative Twitter right now. Chris Rufo,

1580
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 7: also been on this program, says it's getting insane.

1581
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 4: We have a problem in the right.

1582
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:45,600
Speaker 7: The economics of online discourse are increasingly at odds with

1583
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 7: forming and mobilizing a successful political movement. I'm skeptical that

1584
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 7: they're talking just about the Babylon b thing. I know

1585
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 7: there was the Candice Owen's Daily wire stuff. Chris Rufo

1586
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 7: later says that Tucker's show, by getting taken away, took

1587
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 7: away kind of a north star that helped to organize

1588
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 7: right wing discourse.

1589
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 4: But yeah, what, what's what's going on? What's all the

1590
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 4: drama about?

1591
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 6: So I work very hard not to have deep intimate

1592
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 6: understanding of Twitter beefs, but I will say unless I

1593
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 6: think that they're relevant in some ways, and there may

1594
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 6: be an argument that this is relevant in some ways.

1595
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 6: I think Rufo's point about the economics of online incentives

1596
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 6: or the incentives of yeah, and I actually think this

1597
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:32,200
Speaker 6: is something that left has been dealing with for a

1598
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 6: really long time in ways that you're very familiar with,

1599
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 6: because it's.

1600
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 7: I have YouTubers who like have entire subchannels just like

1601
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 7: about my hair.

1602
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 6: Right. Yes, again, speaking of things that are relevant to

1603
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 6: the average American.

1604
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 3: We kind of get to the bottom of war stuff.

1605
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:52,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, stuff, But it reminds me of how I felt

1606
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 6: during the like force the boat whirlwind that absolutely consumed

1607
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 6: the online left. And again, I actually think they're some

1608
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:01,799
Speaker 6: that was a very.

1609
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:04,559
Speaker 4: Legitimate spial dispute, yeah, right.

1610
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:08,800
Speaker 6: And sometimes I think things are online. Things that are

1611
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:14,879
Speaker 6: legitimate disputes among organizers in the grassroots are also online,

1612
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 6: so they get dismissed as being just online beefs instead

1613
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:22,880
Speaker 6: of real representative ones. This one, I don't know how

1614
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 6: representative it is of anything broader except what Rufo said

1615
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 6: that these conversations online are making it really hard for

1616
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 6: conservative media conservative activists to focus on what matters, because

1617
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:35,680
Speaker 6: it puts you in a bubble. If a lot of

1618
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 6: your work is being conducted on Twitter, you're just on

1619
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 6: a bubble where the incentives are totally different for what

1620
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,200
Speaker 6: you talk about how you talk about it, as opposed

1621
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 6: to like appealing broadly to the American public. So I

1622
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:49,160
Speaker 6: definitely don't think it's unique to the right. I think

1623
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 6: the right it didn't learn from the online left and

1624
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 6: has now leaned fully into the influencer space without taking

1625
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:58,880
Speaker 6: some of those lessons to heart. Like even back in

1626
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 6: the day, young Turks, you know, you definitely remember this.

1627
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 6: It just they they had like the beef they were

1628
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 6: in on the sort of online beef economy before anyone

1629
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 6: kind of you know, you had these like warring YouTube

1630
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:14,000
Speaker 6: channels going back and forth and the Twitter beefs like

1631
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,000
Speaker 6: this is this goes back a long way, you know,

1632
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:21,400
Speaker 6: to the dawn of the new media ecosystem on YouTube

1633
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 6: and Twitter.

1634
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 7: Before that, like radio radio hosts on the same channel

1635
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 7: used to have management tell them, okay, now you two

1636
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 7: hosts are fighting for the next two weeks because that

1637
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 7: would bring in that would bring in the ratings.

1638
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 4: But is the current meltdown more about Canice Ellen's or like.

1639
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's a Babylon b thing. Yeah, I

1640
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 6: think that so the Babylon Bee for what it's worth,

1641
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 6: I love them and they are equal opportunity. Like they

1642
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 6: I would be tempted on another account to like to

1643
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 6: see that as kind of classist, but it's that.

1644
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:55,920
Speaker 7: Was one of the first like ones that approached being

1645
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 7: funny that I'd say, I wouldn't quite call it funny,

1646
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 7: but at least it was like, all right, that's an

1647
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 7: attempted big funny.

1648
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 6: They're not all winners. They also they started as like

1649
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 6: a really inter nice scene. Uh, intern ice scene is

1650
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 6: sort of I didn't even mean that as a pun,

1651
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 6: but like a real inter nice scene mockery of like

1652
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 6: evangelical subculture, and it was really funny or like even

1653
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:20,719
Speaker 6: just like Christian subculture was it was actually really funny

1654
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:25,040
Speaker 6: on those those types of along those lines, and yeah,

1655
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 6: they're not all winners, but they have some genuinely very

1656
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:30,679
Speaker 6: biting and funny stuff that mocks conservatives, mocks the left,

1657
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 6: mocks rich people, mocks poor people, mocks everyone. So I

1658
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 6: don't the replies to that were taking issue with alleged like.

1659
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 3: I mean, these we really pretty bigoted.

1660
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 6: There were some pretty bigoted replies saying that there's just

1661
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 6: run by a bunch of Zionists, and some people were

1662
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:54,840
Speaker 6: outright saying Jews. And this is a continuation of the

1663
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,599
Speaker 6: discourse over Canvas Owens and her departure from the Daily Wire,

1664
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 6: which saw obviously Jewish leadership at the Daily Wire, from

1665
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:07,639
Speaker 6: Ben Shapiro to you know, Andrew Clavin who talks about

1666
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 6: he's ethnically Jewish and is very proud of that, although

1667
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 6: he's Christian now. Like it was just a pretty ridiculous

1668
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:16,599
Speaker 6: like I don't even know, and the Daily Wire feeds

1669
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 6: into it, I think to some extent by putting out statements.

1670
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 6: I actually kind of disagree with their decision to do that.

1671
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 6: Like you can just things can just happen and you

1672
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:25,680
Speaker 6: can kind of move on, you.

1673
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 3: Know, what I mean.

1674
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:31,120
Speaker 6: But it's in t Rufo's point though, the economics of

1675
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 6: Twitter makes everybody think that they they kind of have

1676
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 6: to comment on everything because you're getting piled on.

1677
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:38,559
Speaker 3: And is that good for the brand? Is that good

1678
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 3: for your ability to make arguments?

1679
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 6: That's the big question I think that is relevant. It

1680
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:46,439
Speaker 6: is I think very much a continuation though, of the

1681
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 6: Candice Owns discourse from last week, which it's a tough

1682
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 6: one for the Conserveed movie. You were talking before we

1683
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 6: started filming about a poll that found what's thirty percent

1684
01:29:57,200 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 6: Republican opposition to the ongoing war in Gaza.

1685
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,479
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, seventy new Gallup poll after the Flower masker

1686
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 7: found Democrats now against Israeli.

1687
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 4: War seventy five to eighteen. But yes, thirty percent of Republicans.

1688
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:14,800
Speaker 7: It was like something with fifty five thirty five among

1689
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:16,599
Speaker 7: independents against it.

1690
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 4: But as many as I think it.

1691
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 7: Was, thirty percent of yes, Republicans are against that war.

1692
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 7: So that's a non trivial chunk of the of the

1693
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 7: electorate there.

1694
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:33,439
Speaker 4: My own guess on the broader level is a couple

1695
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:33,720
Speaker 4: of things.

1696
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,440
Speaker 7: One is that I think Twitter actually did the conservative

1697
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 7: movement of favor by elevating some of the more out

1698
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 7: there woke stuff and keeping out a lot of these

1699
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:52,720
Speaker 7: kind of Nazis and pepe frogs. So by suspending and

1700
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 7: censoring those Nazis and Confederate sympathizers, I think they actually

1701
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 7: did the kind of conservative Twitter movement generally a favor

1702
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 7: by not having them engaged, not making them such an

1703
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 7: element of it. By Musk allowing them not just to

1704
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:14,479
Speaker 7: come back, but then to pay to amplify their stuff.

1705
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:16,920
Speaker 4: Is similar to what we were talking about earlier in the

1706
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:17,320
Speaker 4: way that.

1707
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:21,000
Speaker 7: Liberals have done Trump a favor by getting rid of him,

1708
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 7: by keeping him off of some of these platforms. So Twitter,

1709
01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 7: by kicking kicking the Nazis off, I think did a

1710
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 7: favor to conservatives. And so now what's happened under Musk

1711
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:37,799
Speaker 7: is that almost all of those liberals either have left Twitter,

1712
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,520
Speaker 7: are not posting as much or refusing.

1713
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 4: To pay the eight bucks, ten bucks, twelve bucks, whatever

1714
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:45,599
Speaker 4: it is now, and so.

1715
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 7: They're not showing up in the verified feeds of conservatives,

1716
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 7: and so they're only seeing other conservatives, and it's becoming

1717
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,160
Speaker 7: more like truth social like you go on truth, you're

1718
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 7: not true social.

1719
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:03,280
Speaker 4: Right anyway on true Soli.

1720
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:04,680
Speaker 7: It was just a bunch of people accusing each other

1721
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 7: of being pedophiles because there's no liberals to own, and

1722
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 7: if there's no libs to own, you just then just

1723
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:13,920
Speaker 7: fight each other. I kind of disagree, like threads are

1724
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:15,639
Speaker 7: like on the left, I kind.

1725
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:17,360
Speaker 6: Of disagree with the point about the pepees because I think,

1726
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:20,479
Speaker 6: just like from an inside perspective and the conservative sphere,

1727
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 6: there was less consternation and handringing about the Pepees when

1728
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 6: they were on Twitter, because it was easy for everyone to.

1729
01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:31,240
Speaker 3: Just be like this is weird, like these people are weird.

1730
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:33,240
Speaker 3: It was just the social.

1731
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 6: You. It replicated the social dynamics of regular life, and

1732
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 6: then you're just like okay, free, like please stop spewing

1733
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:45,599
Speaker 6: this anti semitism, like outrank anti semitism into people's feeds.

1734
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 6: I'm gonna mock you, I'm gonna you know, ignore you. Whatever.

1735
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 6: So I don't I think it's an interesting point, although

1736
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:57,639
Speaker 6: that's my impulse on that now. I think a lot

1737
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:02,920
Speaker 6: of conservatives have been in a sort of bubble on

1738
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 6: the Israel stuff, not just conservatives, like people in general.

1739
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:11,559
Speaker 6: And because this is a war that's playing out on

1740
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 6: social media, there's something very powerful and this is why

1741
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 6: I encourage, you know, as a again someone who disagrees

1742
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 6: with you know, a lot of I think our audience

1743
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 6: on this question of Israel I still one of the

1744
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 6: things I think has been really detrimental and kind of

1745
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 6: the ways that Trump was talking about, but even deeper

1746
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 6: to the like Israel's public relations effort just plainly is

1747
01:33:39,560 --> 01:33:43,240
Speaker 6: when there's a lack of transparency and people find information

1748
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:47,360
Speaker 6: that's contrary to what they're being told, that's contrary to propaganda,

1749
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 6: that's extremely powerful and it makes people think. It makes

1750
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 6: people question Israel period. So instead of people just saying, well,

1751
01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,600
Speaker 6: Israel is you know, engaged in this wartime propaganda and

1752
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,400
Speaker 6: is really wrong about what happened in this instant, it

1753
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 6: makes you question literally everything that Israel has done because

1754
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:10,160
Speaker 6: people are like, man, I've been lied to about our support.

1755
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 6: I've been lied to about from the river to the sea.

1756
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 6: I've been this is this is not what I'm hearing.

1757
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:19,280
Speaker 6: And that's powerful. That's extremely powerful. And I think some

1758
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,799
Speaker 6: of what's playing out in the conservative movement right now.

1759
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 3: Is people who follow new media really closely.

1760
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 6: I know we have like a lot of conservative viewers

1761
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:31,160
Speaker 6: of this show, Learning New information that you just don't hear,

1762
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:35,439
Speaker 6: you know, in in people who certain the circles of

1763
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 6: people who are ardently pro Israel for some very good reason,

1764
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 6: you know, descended from people who fled there and found

1765
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 6: refuge there before the Holocaust, during the Holocaust, after the Holocaust.

1766
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:51,800
Speaker 6: You know, it's that when there is no transparency, it

1767
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:55,479
Speaker 6: makes the contrary information even more powerful in ways that

1768
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 6: are counterproductive. And I feel like that some of what's

1769
01:34:58,000 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 6: playing out right now.

1770
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:01,800
Speaker 7: I don't know how exactly this fits in, but I

1771
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,120
Speaker 7: wanted to add because I think it feels related. So

1772
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 7: last night, there was a special election in Alabama, which

1773
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 7: you may have followed. It was a house district in

1774
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:13,880
Speaker 7: the kind of in the Huntsville area. So in twenty

1775
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 7: twenty two, Republicans won that seat by seven points, and

1776
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 7: it consistently this is Trump this is a red district.

1777
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,599
Speaker 7: This time the Democrat won by nearly twenty five points.

1778
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 4: Then this is just.

1779
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 7: Not long after the IVF ruling kind of rocked in

1780
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:37,960
Speaker 7: Alabama politics, and it feels like there's something related here,

1781
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 7: that there is a segment of the right that is

1782
01:35:45,320 --> 01:35:48,960
Speaker 7: coming into contact with the consequences of.

1783
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 4: Their own rhetoric and.

1784
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:58,080
Speaker 7: Success that is causing them then huge, huge fallout.

1785
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 6: That's interesting. Yeah, I mean Tucker Carlson recently said that

1786
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 6: he was wrong. I think he said this on Lex

1787
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:09,320
Speaker 6: Friedman show, that he was wrong about US imperialism. That

1788
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:11,639
Speaker 6: he's like a child of the Cold War era and

1789
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:16,280
Speaker 6: it was sort of doggedly pro us and in that

1790
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 6: foil with anti communism, like in that binary.

1791
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 4: He wanted to join the CIA.

1792
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 3: Yes, Putin said.

1793
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he recently said, you know, he's looked back

1794
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:29,839
Speaker 6: on all of that history, and I think that reckoning

1795
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:33,320
Speaker 6: is happening with about thirty percent of the Republican base.

1796
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:35,000
Speaker 6: Like actually it kind of matches up to what that

1797
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 6: Pole found about support for the war Gaza that I

1798
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:40,559
Speaker 6: do think that there's this big reckoning that's happening, and

1799
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:42,040
Speaker 6: I think it's going to push people in some really

1800
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:47,400
Speaker 6: unhealthy directions into, for example, rank anti semitism, following for instance,

1801
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:51,559
Speaker 6: Candice Omens down whatever rabbit hole she chooses on any

1802
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 6: given day, and flirting with bigotry. I think it's going

1803
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:57,679
Speaker 6: to lead some people in really good directions, which means

1804
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 6: that the conservative movement or conservatives more broadly, hopefully at

1805
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 6: one point the Republican Party would have a more nuanced

1806
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:07,360
Speaker 6: approach to foreign policy than this sort of Cold War

1807
01:37:07,400 --> 01:37:12,200
Speaker 6: binary you're with us or against us, and any person

1808
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 6: that flirts with communism in any part of the globe

1809
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:18,600
Speaker 6: must be eradicated by the CIA or American forces or

1810
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 6: we should sick Samantha Powers on them what happens. So anyway, yeah,

1811
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:28,240
Speaker 6: I think the economics of online discourse though that broader point.

1812
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 6: I think it's been really unhealthy for American politics. And

1813
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 6: I have people who remind me, you know, what it

1814
01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:37,320
Speaker 6: was like to cover politics before Twitter, and say, listen,

1815
01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:40,280
Speaker 6: it was actually way harder to get different information in

1816
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:44,000
Speaker 6: different perspectives, and it wasn't impossible. Just Twitter does make

1817
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 6: it easy in ways that we take for granted. At

1818
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 6: the same time, it also puts virtually every person who

1819
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 6: works in politics and who is in power in a

1820
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 6: giant bubble because they're constantly exposed to the algorithm, and

1821
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:03,280
Speaker 6: the algorithm incentivizes uh, you know, extremness or like extreme

1822
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:08,920
Speaker 6: perspectives and disagreement division over anything else. And that's warping,

1823
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:11,080
Speaker 6: distorting the way that powerful people see the world.

1824
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:13,400
Speaker 7: All right, Well, up next, we're going to have ashesh

1825
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:17,680
Speaker 7: Prashar from the No Taxation for Genocide campaign, which has

1826
01:38:17,720 --> 01:38:20,519
Speaker 7: been surprisingly successful in the United Kingdom, is going to

1827
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 7: break down that for us.

1828
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:25,880
Speaker 4: Stick around all right.

1829
01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:28,120
Speaker 7: Up next is a sheesh for Sharp and they no

1830
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:32,280
Speaker 7: tax for Genocide campaign, Ashish, thank you so.

1831
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:34,640
Speaker 4: Much for joining us here, Thanks for having me.

1832
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:38,559
Speaker 7: All right, so break down this campaign for us? What

1833
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 7: does what does no tax for Genocide mean?

1834
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:43,120
Speaker 1: I think it's important to set the stage a little

1835
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:45,679
Speaker 1: bit on this why this is actually legal for people

1836
01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:48,600
Speaker 1: in the UK. You know, thirty four thousand civilians have

1837
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 1: been killed, one point two million people have been forcibly removed.

1838
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 1: These numbers sound eerily familiar, but they're not actually Gaza.

1839
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 1: That's the Bosnian genocide. And today in Gaza we're seeing

1840
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 1: over forty thousand, we passed thirty four thousand number. We've

1841
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 1: seen two million people displaced, countless number of people injured,

1842
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:08,639
Speaker 1: as well as bombed and staffed Palestinians and the US

1843
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:10,640
Speaker 1: is eight and US and UK in this case of

1844
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:14,639
Speaker 1: aided and embedded in those crimes, the ICJ have ruled

1845
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,600
Speaker 1: it ap plausible genocide and only yesterday I think Francesca

1846
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 1: Albany is the UN Special Rapperture basically confirmed it was

1847
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:23,519
Speaker 1: a genocide, and no matter what the State Department says,

1848
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:26,599
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like a reputable source right now because

1849
01:39:26,600 --> 01:39:29,559
Speaker 1: they've in fact been lying for six months, because we've

1850
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:33,720
Speaker 1: had countless human rights organizations, scholars in this space, and

1851
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:36,560
Speaker 1: even frankly survivors of Bosnia call this a genocide.

1852
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:38,640
Speaker 5: And the reason that's important is because none of.

1853
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 1: This works and as that is actually deemed a genocide

1854
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:46,080
Speaker 1: of crimes against humanity. See the law in we've discovered

1855
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 1: as power that can be used on behalf of this struggle.

1856
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:50,920
Speaker 1: It can be wielded in service off this political movement

1857
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 1: and the actually liberation of Palestinians. So the UK has

1858
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:58,720
Speaker 1: specifically aided in war crimes. Funding war crimes is illegal

1859
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:02,839
Speaker 1: and taxation is not exempt under UK law. This campaign,

1860
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:05,800
Speaker 1: which launched on the fourteenth of March, a campaign that's

1861
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:09,160
Speaker 1: based on UK statute law specifically, not going to get

1862
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:11,400
Speaker 1: overly legal about it, so I'll keep this simple. But

1863
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:14,240
Speaker 1: the ICC Act which makes it a criminal offense for

1864
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:18,360
Speaker 1: anyone in the UK, personal organization or institution to engage

1865
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: in war crimes or crimes against humanity. The Terrorism Act

1866
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:26,479
Speaker 1: in two thousand also does not exclude taxation in its

1867
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 1: criminalization of funding of terror and mass atrocities. And that

1868
01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:33,280
Speaker 1: is how people can legally withhold their money. And remember

1869
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:35,559
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be clear, they still pay their taxes,

1870
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:38,479
Speaker 1: they have to put it in a discretion discretionary trust

1871
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 1: or another bank account. Effectively that the primary beneficiary of

1872
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 1: that is the UK government.

1873
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 7: So they're paying their taxes, they're putting in basically into

1874
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:52,519
Speaker 7: an escrow account, but UK doesn't have access to that

1875
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:55,040
Speaker 7: unless they do what and how many people do you

1876
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:55,720
Speaker 7: have so far?

1877
01:40:56,080 --> 01:40:56,880
Speaker 4: Who are doing this?

1878
01:40:57,520 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 1: So so far, I mean there has been a trial

1879
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:02,680
Speaker 1: run of a bunch of people and businesses that have

1880
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 1: done this on the pledge. Right now we have up

1881
01:41:05,800 --> 01:41:09,080
Speaker 1: to just under seventy thousand people effectively engaged and that's

1882
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:11,439
Speaker 1: ready to go. The goal for me is to get

1883
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:13,599
Speaker 1: up to one hundred thousand people because that would eliminate

1884
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,720
Speaker 1: seven hundred million pounds close to a billion dollars from

1885
01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 1: the UK's budget and look to be transfer everyone's going

1886
01:41:19,240 --> 01:41:21,439
Speaker 1: to Oh, those numbers might seem small, for the UK

1887
01:41:21,640 --> 01:41:23,320
Speaker 1: is not the United States. It doesn't have a trillion

1888
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:26,639
Speaker 1: dollars budget. It is only sixty million people thirty eight

1889
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:29,639
Speaker 1: million people which pay taxation. You would one hundred thousand

1890
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:31,960
Speaker 1: knockout of that and even go as far as we

1891
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:33,800
Speaker 1: think engagement will be up to a million, two million,

1892
01:41:33,880 --> 01:41:36,439
Speaker 1: three million, that's nearly ten percent of the population. If

1893
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 1: they stop paying taxation, you will cripple the ability of

1894
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:41,920
Speaker 1: the Treasury and the UK government to move forward in

1895
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:45,960
Speaker 1: any policy. Frankly, and to answer your early question about

1896
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 1: who's doing it already, we obviously tested this. We had

1897
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,920
Speaker 1: a couple of small businesses and partners who also i

1898
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't say prop personally, who just don't want to see

1899
01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:56,559
Speaker 1: children blowing up every morning when they wake up on

1900
01:41:56,560 --> 01:41:58,479
Speaker 1: their phones. They don't want to see their government and

1901
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:02,160
Speaker 1: themselves participate in these actions. And we work with these businesses.

1902
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:04,880
Speaker 1: They're small in the UK. They have fifty to sixty

1903
01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:08,680
Speaker 1: people to tell the HMRC inform them through this process

1904
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:11,320
Speaker 1: that they won't be they will continue.

1905
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:12,439
Speaker 5: They don't want to be complicit.

1906
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:14,799
Speaker 1: They don't want to be complicit in these war crimes

1907
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:18,679
Speaker 1: that the UK is actively engaged in. They don't want

1908
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 1: to be personally culpable for these war crimes, and they

1909
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:24,360
Speaker 1: don't want to collect tax that will be funding those

1910
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:26,720
Speaker 1: war crimes. So they send that out to HMRC with

1911
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 1: all the statute stuff that I mentioned earlier on showed

1912
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:32,000
Speaker 1: up the trust that they're actually setting up to put

1913
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 1: the taxation in and the UK would only get the

1914
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:37,120
Speaker 1: money if it could prove it's no longer aiding and

1915
01:42:37,120 --> 01:42:39,840
Speaker 1: embedding and supporting these genocidal acts.

1916
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,280
Speaker 6: The system just like from the perspective of democracy, sounds

1917
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:48,479
Speaker 6: like so enviable from the United States, Like being able

1918
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 6: to express your politics through removing your tax funding in

1919
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 6: this way is just like amazing. Has the at testament

1920
01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:58,920
Speaker 6: to get really impressive organizing on your part and other

1921
01:42:58,920 --> 01:43:01,960
Speaker 6: people who are involved in this. Has the right flirted

1922
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:04,680
Speaker 6: with us at all and said, for example, if the

1923
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 6: UK is funding UNRA, funding the un which is funding UNRA,

1924
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:12,120
Speaker 6: which has Hamas connections, I'm not paying taxes because I

1925
01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:14,719
Speaker 6: don't want to fund Has there been any like counter

1926
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 6: effort or are you guys really like uh? Completely? And

1927
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 6: maybe this is reflective of where public opinion is in

1928
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:21,280
Speaker 6: the UK too.

1929
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:24,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting. It's a really good question.

1930
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:27,920
Speaker 1: I think that the funny thing is we were very

1931
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 1: specific about the ICC Act, right, I mean, because somebody

1932
01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:32,000
Speaker 1: gets me, couldn't I change?

1933
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:33,880
Speaker 5: Is that not a massa truscity? Could I not do this?

1934
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:36,599
Speaker 1: For there's so many reasons you could possibly. The language

1935
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:39,519
Speaker 1: around the icct ICC Act really was designed to stop

1936
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:43,759
Speaker 1: war crimes, to stop genocide, to stop what we're seeing

1937
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:45,519
Speaker 1: and what we're seeing in Gazan and what happened in

1938
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 1: Bosnia and Rwanda and everything else around that. So we've

1939
01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:50,639
Speaker 1: been very specific about why you couldn't do this around

1940
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:52,000
Speaker 1: everything out there.

1941
01:43:52,040 --> 01:43:53,800
Speaker 5: And then also terrorism.

1942
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:56,880
Speaker 1: It's complex, right, right, we put people in the Terror

1943
01:43:56,920 --> 01:43:59,639
Speaker 1: Watch this we the United States, the UK, even Europe,

1944
01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:02,599
Speaker 1: but not everyone sees every organization as a terrorist group.

1945
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 5: So harmas in it itself.

1946
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:06,559
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to speak to just me,

1947
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:09,960
Speaker 1: but the guy who negotiated the Good Friday Agreement between

1948
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:14,800
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland, UK and Ireland, Jonathan Powell, ha MASS is

1949
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 1: not recognized as a terrorist organization to about one hundred

1950
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:21,000
Speaker 1: and sixty other countries. You know, it's literally, to lack

1951
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:22,880
Speaker 1: of a better term, white countries in Europe and the

1952
01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:25,960
Speaker 1: United States and Israel. So it's complex, right when you

1953
01:44:25,960 --> 01:44:28,880
Speaker 1: have like a genocidal act that's been really enforced by

1954
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,120
Speaker 1: and That's why there was rulings are really important. That's

1955
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:35,720
Speaker 1: why the plausible genocide, which is effectively genocide by international standards,

1956
01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 1: and having a Franciscalbinator's report to the UN all enforcing

1957
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:44,400
Speaker 1: the fact that this is the genocide, really makes this possible.

1958
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 1: It's really difficult when you have an individual act. You know,

1959
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:49,639
Speaker 1: you can have an act of terror, and you can

1960
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:53,120
Speaker 1: have an act an act of violence and say, well,

1961
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:55,640
Speaker 1: that was that's done by terrorism organized is surely I

1962
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:59,080
Speaker 1: should be able to remove my funding from this right now.

1963
01:44:59,200 --> 01:45:01,920
Speaker 1: And it's you know, you could argue and you know

1964
01:45:02,080 --> 01:45:04,439
Speaker 1: that they're freedom fighters for some reason, and you could

1965
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:06,840
Speaker 1: talk about how people felt of the ira and all

1966
01:45:06,840 --> 01:45:09,639
Speaker 1: then iland whether their freedom fighters are not terrorists.

1967
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:11,040
Speaker 5: So it's complex there.

1968
01:45:11,080 --> 01:45:14,519
Speaker 1: But that's why all those other rulings are really important

1969
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 1: to make this possible. And it really doesn't matter what

1970
01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 1: the US and the UK say. If the Top Court,

1971
01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:22,559
Speaker 1: which by the way, they fund through the UN, is

1972
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:24,479
Speaker 1: making these rulings.

1973
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:28,000
Speaker 7: What's the effect been so far on the politics back

1974
01:45:28,040 --> 01:45:29,040
Speaker 7: at home, if any.

1975
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:30,400
Speaker 6: Not.

1976
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:33,280
Speaker 1: We haven't had a direct response. I definitely know that

1977
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:40,920
Speaker 1: they are worried. We've had a bit of a blowback

1978
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:44,640
Speaker 1: from I think government tax people who've gone on air in

1979
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:48,400
Speaker 1: the UK say this is not legal, you know. And

1980
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:51,120
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is here, they've sent accountants out to

1981
01:45:51,160 --> 01:45:55,120
Speaker 1: do this, right, they've sent tax experts. There's no tax

1982
01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:57,160
Speaker 1: person that you work with that's going to recommend you

1983
01:45:57,200 --> 01:45:59,600
Speaker 1: do this. This is based in international law, and the

1984
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:02,920
Speaker 1: problem with tax lawyers and tax specialists is they don't

1985
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 1: understand international law. We're using laws that are written by

1986
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:09,120
Speaker 1: the UN and the Hague, but also your laws that

1987
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:11,160
Speaker 1: are written by the UK government to address terrorism, to

1988
01:46:11,160 --> 01:46:14,040
Speaker 1: address war crimes, to address genocide. To do this, we're

1989
01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:16,920
Speaker 1: not using tax law. The only tax part is the trust.

1990
01:46:17,400 --> 01:46:19,559
Speaker 1: You know, the factors. We're saying you can withhold all

1991
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 1: your funding because it's in the international law and our

1992
01:46:22,600 --> 01:46:25,080
Speaker 1: own domestic laws, the ICC Act and Terror Actors say

1993
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:27,880
Speaker 1: you are culpable right now if we are supporting this,

1994
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:28,200
Speaker 1: and I.

1995
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 5: Think that's the I feel like they've approached this wrongly.

1996
01:46:31,240 --> 01:46:33,360
Speaker 1: You know, have an expert who is an expert in

1997
01:46:33,400 --> 01:46:36,439
Speaker 1: war crimes and an expert in international law to call

1998
01:46:36,479 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 1: this illegal. Have an expert who understands the Terrorism Act

1999
01:46:39,160 --> 01:46:41,120
Speaker 1: to call this illegal. They haven't been able to muster that,

2000
01:46:41,200 --> 01:46:43,840
Speaker 1: yet they've only had accountants basically go out there and

2001
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:46,360
Speaker 1: say that, And no accountant is going to tell you Ryan,

2002
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:49,240
Speaker 1: you know, or anywhere on the show that you should

2003
01:46:49,240 --> 01:46:50,080
Speaker 1: withhold your tax.

2004
01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:53,479
Speaker 6: Well, I was just going to say and to like

2005
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:56,599
Speaker 6: ask that question about how this does the success of

2006
01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:59,880
Speaker 6: this reflects on our public opinion on the war is

2007
01:47:00,680 --> 01:47:04,879
Speaker 6: among people in the UK? Do you see the success

2008
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:08,599
Speaker 6: of this as being a reflection of you know, kind

2009
01:47:08,600 --> 01:47:09,880
Speaker 6: of what we were talking about earlier in the show

2010
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:12,040
Speaker 6: with Ryan and I were talking about what Donald Trump

2011
01:47:12,040 --> 01:47:15,640
Speaker 6: said about Israel's public relations problem? Do you see this

2012
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:19,559
Speaker 6: as reflecting like real, real deep fissures in public opinion

2013
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 6: about that question?

2014
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:21,760
Speaker 5: One percent?

2015
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:23,639
Speaker 1: I think the I mean, you only have to look

2016
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:25,439
Speaker 1: at the public opinion here where it's like over seventy

2017
01:47:25,439 --> 01:47:27,240
Speaker 1: percent want to see spirits point in the UK is

2018
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:29,000
Speaker 1: I don't know the numbers off the top of my

2019
01:47:29,040 --> 01:47:31,000
Speaker 1: head that's surpassed that. I mean, you even have you

2020
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:32,439
Speaker 1: asked the question for people on the right. I think

2021
01:47:32,479 --> 01:47:35,679
Speaker 1: people are generally sick of waking up to those images.

2022
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:39,439
Speaker 1: Generally can't understand how our governments are okay with this, generally,

2023
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:41,559
Speaker 1: like why are we still sending weapons to help this.

2024
01:47:42,560 --> 01:47:45,840
Speaker 1: I think public opinion. I think across you know, somebody

2025
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:47,559
Speaker 1: said to me, Oh, it's just the global South or

2026
01:47:47,960 --> 01:47:49,600
Speaker 1: at least that cares about this. You only have to

2027
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:51,639
Speaker 1: look at your streets every weekend to realize how many

2028
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:53,280
Speaker 1: people care about this. You only have to look at

2029
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:55,240
Speaker 1: the reason they're trying to ban things like TikTok here

2030
01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:58,559
Speaker 1: and in the UK because so much engagement around how

2031
01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:02,920
Speaker 1: how atrocious all of this is, How we can't believe

2032
01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:05,680
Speaker 1: that we're okay with this, and we can't believe you know,

2033
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:08,640
Speaker 1: that this is happening and we can watch it, you know.

2034
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:13,040
Speaker 1: I think people are over our institutions continuing this map,

2035
01:48:13,120 --> 01:48:16,120
Speaker 1: continuing these massacres, and millions of people across the UK

2036
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 1: at the west of the world want killings of Palestinians

2037
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:22,599
Speaker 1: by Israelis to just end, just simply end at this point.

2038
01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:25,240
Speaker 1: And whether you are pro Palestinian or you have a

2039
01:48:25,320 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 1: side or whatever, I think the majority of people want

2040
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:30,960
Speaker 1: it to stop. And that is something you can't I

2041
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:33,280
Speaker 1: think I think most people agree with right, Like, you're

2042
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:36,240
Speaker 1: seeing people who are like not even engaged in these politics,

2043
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:39,400
Speaker 1: not engaged in Palestinian liberation, out there going look, I

2044
01:48:39,479 --> 01:48:41,720
Speaker 1: just want kids. I don't want kids that look like

2045
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:45,240
Speaker 1: that could be my kid, bomb shot or starved.

2046
01:48:46,360 --> 01:48:49,760
Speaker 7: And you may have seen this video recently, but if

2047
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:53,200
Speaker 7: you didn't, there was this a French national who was

2048
01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:58,320
Speaker 7: kind of caught on video down in Gaza talking about

2049
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:04,240
Speaker 7: and actually like engage and basically torture of a Palestinian detainee.

2050
01:49:04,280 --> 01:49:07,040
Speaker 7: And then there was an effort online to identify like

2051
01:49:07,120 --> 01:49:10,719
Speaker 7: who this who this person was, which was successful people

2052
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 7: who people who were friends with him.

2053
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:13,599
Speaker 4: So wait a minute, I know who that is.

2054
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:19,240
Speaker 7: And now there's kind of an effort underway to prosecute

2055
01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 7: this guy when he comes back to France after this.

2056
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:26,280
Speaker 7: What sense do you have among people who are trying to,

2057
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:31,160
Speaker 7: you know, bring accountability to people who are engaged in this,

2058
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:34,040
Speaker 7: either at the leadership level or on the ground. Are

2059
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:36,680
Speaker 7: there any efforts that are proceeding in any ways that

2060
01:49:36,720 --> 01:49:38,839
Speaker 7: are kind of worth exploring at this point.

2061
01:49:39,160 --> 01:49:39,519
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2062
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,720
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about that is that obviously, you know,

2063
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:44,519
Speaker 1: we're working on something like that, which we'll get into.

2064
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:48,160
Speaker 1: But I think the public don't want these people coming

2065
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:50,599
Speaker 1: back and being that teacher of their kids. The public

2066
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:53,280
Speaker 1: don't want these individuals to sit next to them in

2067
01:49:53,280 --> 01:49:56,120
Speaker 1: the office. The public don't want to engage with these

2068
01:49:56,160 --> 01:49:59,960
Speaker 1: individuals who've killed children and celebrated killing children, who've taught

2069
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:02,479
Speaker 1: should other human beings and just sit next to them

2070
01:50:02,479 --> 01:50:05,680
Speaker 1: in the coffeehouse like nothing changed and and talk to them.

2071
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:09,640
Speaker 1: I think people are deeply uncomfortable with that and the

2072
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:12,439
Speaker 1: fact that they will potentially slip back into society. So

2073
01:50:13,040 --> 01:50:17,640
Speaker 1: you know the reason, the big the reason that the

2074
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:20,400
Speaker 1: taxing just one second, The reason people want to do

2075
01:50:20,439 --> 01:50:24,600
Speaker 1: this is because you've had protests after protests, millions of

2076
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:27,519
Speaker 1: people in the United Kingdom March and everyone's always asking

2077
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:29,559
Speaker 1: what more can I do? This is a way for

2078
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:32,759
Speaker 1: them to actively get involved now to answer your actual question.

2079
01:50:33,479 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 1: Because the public can't do this, there are lawyers across

2080
01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 1: the United States, across Europe who are trying to hold

2081
01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 1: these individuals accountable.

2082
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:41,040
Speaker 5: Right now.

2083
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 1: There are a set of cases being worked on to

2084
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:48,639
Speaker 1: go after the Israeli administration but also the American administration.

2085
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:49,479
Speaker 5: For their war crimes.

2086
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 1: There is a movement of lawyers also across the EU

2087
01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:57,760
Speaker 1: going after individuals personally IDs soldiers responsible for those war

2088
01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:00,000
Speaker 1: crimes too. They're arrogant enough to do it on video

2089
01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:02,599
Speaker 1: it's not that difficult to bring charges against them.

2090
01:51:02,760 --> 01:51:04,320
Speaker 5: The French government even cleared the way.

2091
01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:07,400
Speaker 1: The Justice Department earlier this week cleared the way for

2092
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:10,840
Speaker 1: prosecutions if anyone could identify people, right, there is always

2093
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:13,800
Speaker 1: a will the will the government actually get in the way,

2094
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:16,920
Speaker 1: Will the government actually stop us prosecuting these individuals.

2095
01:51:17,160 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 5: Well, that's all been clear.

2096
01:51:18,200 --> 01:51:20,360
Speaker 1: The Justice Department announcement going if you can under if

2097
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:22,800
Speaker 1: you have that, you have the evidence, those charges can

2098
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:25,280
Speaker 1: be brought to court. But yes, to answer to answer

2099
01:51:25,320 --> 01:51:28,120
Speaker 1: your other point about what's happening. So I am working

2100
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:31,439
Speaker 1: with a coalition of lawyers with other partners like Noorder,

2101
01:51:31,479 --> 01:51:34,200
Speaker 1: earlcat who's a famous human rights lawyer here in the

2102
01:51:34,280 --> 01:51:38,840
Speaker 1: United States, which Palestinian, bringing cases against both Israel but

2103
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:40,640
Speaker 1: the United States. And the focus and the lawyers that

2104
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm working on have is the United States, because we

2105
01:51:44,200 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be possible without them. We have funded it.

2106
01:51:47,680 --> 01:51:50,600
Speaker 1: We have literally sent cash, just cash. We have We

2107
01:51:50,640 --> 01:51:52,400
Speaker 1: have sent all the weapons that have been used for

2108
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:55,120
Speaker 1: this genocide, the amount weapons as well as used. They'd

2109
01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:56,800
Speaker 1: be out, they'd be out of bombs in a week

2110
01:51:57,240 --> 01:52:00,719
Speaker 1: if we weren't continuously restocking that The amount they've dropped

2111
01:52:00,760 --> 01:52:02,600
Speaker 1: this shocking, and they wouldn't be able to do that

2112
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:04,559
Speaker 1: without the United States. So we are complicit, and we've

2113
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:07,120
Speaker 1: made it embedded than that, but also the political cover

2114
01:52:07,280 --> 01:52:09,920
Speaker 1: we've provided, the amount of vetos when we've already known

2115
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:12,040
Speaker 1: since the middle of October it's and ethnic cleansing, it's

2116
01:52:12,040 --> 01:52:12,640
Speaker 1: a genocide.

2117
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:15,200
Speaker 5: We've provided all of that. So we have a coalition

2118
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:15,759
Speaker 5: of lawyers.

2119
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:19,880
Speaker 1: Specifically, the countries where these cases are more towards the

2120
01:52:19,960 --> 01:52:22,439
Speaker 1: end of actually being submitted are in Ireland and Spain.

2121
01:52:23,360 --> 01:52:26,519
Speaker 1: They will happen this spring where there'll be cases brought

2122
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:30,400
Speaker 1: against not just Biden, not just Blinken, not just Austin.

2123
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:34,200
Speaker 1: Our targets are the entire administration, and that includes those

2124
01:52:34,240 --> 01:52:39,920
Speaker 1: press secretaries from Matt Miller to koreemj KJP and John Kirby,

2125
01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:45,160
Speaker 1: who outwardly promoted genocide, who outwardly said this is okay,

2126
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 1: who outly also butcher international law when saying things like

2127
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:51,360
Speaker 1: Israel has a right to defend itself. I guess every

2128
01:52:51,400 --> 01:52:54,920
Speaker 1: state has a right to defend itself, but from another state,

2129
01:52:55,560 --> 01:52:58,800
Speaker 1: not from people they occupy. In fact, resistance is the

2130
01:52:58,840 --> 01:53:02,559
Speaker 1: actual thing that is lead goal from occupation in international law.

2131
01:53:02,760 --> 01:53:05,799
Speaker 1: So the gaslet and lied to the public blatantly about

2132
01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:09,320
Speaker 1: all this stuff already. So they are culpable. Every press secretary,

2133
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:11,599
Speaker 1: every member of the war cabinet, every staff member from

2134
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:14,160
Speaker 1: Jeff Science, they are culpable in these cases. And they

2135
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:17,120
Speaker 1: are all being named in these cases because it's important

2136
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:19,439
Speaker 1: that they don't know any more. They don't know any

2137
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:23,080
Speaker 1: peace going forward. We accept that the president, through maybe

2138
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:27,120
Speaker 1: international because of diplomatic community, might not be able to

2139
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:29,400
Speaker 1: be charged immediately, but hey, he might not be in

2140
01:53:29,479 --> 01:53:32,439
Speaker 1: office in November, and I might lose the election, so

2141
01:53:32,479 --> 01:53:34,599
Speaker 1: there might be a potential for him to be justice

2142
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:37,280
Speaker 1: to be sought against him. But none of those staff

2143
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:41,360
Speaker 1: members have immunity from prosecution anywhere else in the world.

2144
01:53:41,640 --> 01:53:43,640
Speaker 1: If they go abroad and these cases are brought, they

2145
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:46,200
Speaker 1: will be named and there will be warrants for them

2146
01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:47,639
Speaker 1: to appear at court.

2147
01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:51,840
Speaker 7: And Ashe's last question, Neil, you personally, you've had an

2148
01:53:51,880 --> 01:53:54,440
Speaker 7: interesting journey to this place. Who worked in some conservative

2149
01:53:54,479 --> 01:53:58,160
Speaker 7: circles in Britain, worked for work for Tony Blair when

2150
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:01,160
Speaker 7: he was minised envoy. You know, can you describe a

2151
01:54:01,160 --> 01:54:02,559
Speaker 7: little bit of your journey, how you got to the

2152
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:06,719
Speaker 7: place where you said, you know what, I can't allow

2153
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:08,680
Speaker 7: these these folks in a moment of sleep, and I'm

2154
01:54:08,680 --> 01:54:11,360
Speaker 7: gonna do everything I can to bring an end to

2155
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:14,040
Speaker 7: the UK involvement in this as quickly as possible.

2156
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:21,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, just knowing being taught what horrors like this are, Like,

2157
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:24,759
Speaker 1: I think we do a disservice to our education system

2158
01:54:24,760 --> 01:54:26,639
Speaker 1: by not teaching things like we want to talk about

2159
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:28,599
Speaker 1: the Holocausts. Yeah, we teach it properly in the UK,

2160
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:33,080
Speaker 1: and we're taught that this should never happen. We're taught

2161
01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:39,800
Speaker 1: that we shouldn't indiscriminately watch the massacre of children, babies, grandparents.

2162
01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:43,440
Speaker 1: And you know, I am also the descendant of someone

2163
01:54:43,480 --> 01:54:46,680
Speaker 1: who had to go through that in Kenya with the

2164
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:50,600
Speaker 1: British and learning and having my own family talk about

2165
01:54:50,640 --> 01:54:51,160
Speaker 1: that stuff.

2166
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 5: Having seen a part like firsthand.

2167
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:56,640
Speaker 1: When you work in the mid East End Boys office

2168
01:54:56,720 --> 01:54:59,000
Speaker 1: is really hard to see and you know, and the

2169
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:01,280
Speaker 1: reason I left that job was what seeing a part

2170
01:55:01,320 --> 01:55:03,400
Speaker 1: at first. And I think people have said much better

2171
01:55:03,400 --> 01:55:04,960
Speaker 1: things than I'm ever going to say about what they've

2172
01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:08,400
Speaker 1: seen when they went there, but it's unseeable after that,

2173
01:55:08,440 --> 01:55:11,920
Speaker 1: and then watching this indiscriminate killing and watching that this

2174
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:12,960
Speaker 1: could be our future.

2175
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:14,600
Speaker 5: Also, I think this is the part that.

2176
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:18,480
Speaker 1: I think people who are not engaged you need to understand.

2177
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:22,640
Speaker 1: If we tolerate this, our children are next. The way

2178
01:55:22,680 --> 01:55:26,680
Speaker 1: they are policing and brutalizing Palestinians, the way they are

2179
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:30,839
Speaker 1: massacring Palestinians. I've only learned from Iraq, you know, myself

2180
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:33,160
Speaker 1: and everybody else, that everything we've done abroad comes back home.

2181
01:55:33,600 --> 01:55:35,160
Speaker 1: You know, there was a time where no one believed

2182
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:37,800
Speaker 1: drones would be over the skies of NYC monitoring us,

2183
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:40,320
Speaker 1: and then swat teams would rade your home. Well, we

2184
01:55:40,360 --> 01:55:42,720
Speaker 1: did that in two thousand and three, four five. Now

2185
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:45,760
Speaker 1: we do it in Brooklyn. You know, there are things

2186
01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:49,920
Speaker 1: that we're doing in Israel that if we tolerate, they

2187
01:55:49,960 --> 01:55:52,160
Speaker 1: will happen to our own people. And we must and

2188
01:55:52,160 --> 01:55:55,440
Speaker 1: the only thing standing between us and that is Palestinians

2189
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:58,840
Speaker 1: right now, and we must do everything we can to

2190
01:55:58,920 --> 01:56:02,200
Speaker 1: stop mad these atrocities. This isn't just about me coming

2191
01:56:02,240 --> 01:56:04,040
Speaker 1: to this. There are millions of people across the world

2192
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:08,040
Speaker 1: who've come to this and seen something that they don't

2193
01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:10,280
Speaker 1: want to live with. It's something that they understand could

2194
01:56:10,280 --> 01:56:12,160
Speaker 1: happen to them.

2195
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:14,920
Speaker 7: Well, she's well said, and thank you so much for

2196
01:56:15,000 --> 01:56:16,160
Speaker 7: joining us, really appreciate it.

2197
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:17,160
Speaker 5: Thank you.

2198
01:56:19,680 --> 01:56:23,240
Speaker 4: All right. Well, that'll do it for today. You're here tomorrow,

2199
01:56:23,280 --> 01:56:23,640
Speaker 4: is that right.

2200
01:56:23,680 --> 01:56:25,480
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna say I will be here with Crystal

2201
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:29,240
Speaker 6: tomorrow and we will be back here with more counterpoints

2202
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:30,040
Speaker 6: next Wednesday.

2203
01:56:30,080 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 4: There you go, all right, see you guys then