Speaker 1: Jeff, I called you, Jeff. Yes, absolutely, mm hmm. Golf
Speaker 1: is the thing on anything in golf that doesn't change
Speaker 1: the anything that changes the fest in playing does this
Speaker 1: man of one time winner on the PGA Tour. The
Speaker 1: point Alan is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth.
Speaker 1: This is fun. So let's say you're probably a better
Speaker 1: guitar player than I am a golfer. I think it's
Speaker 1: the reason so many athletes across sports. I think he's
Speaker 1: the greatest athlete they ever saw. I would go to
Speaker 1: the range and I would try to hit you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of hundred one irons, and I would try
Speaker 1: to hit him as high and as hard as I could.
Speaker 1: Great athletes do leave legacies. We're trying to the one
Speaker 1: I can share. Not get myself in trouble. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is a dangerous grows here. So I think we
Speaker 1: can all agree that Echo golf shoes changed the game.
Speaker 1: When Fred Couples rolled up wearing them without socks. It
Speaker 1: spoke to their comfort and just sort of that that
Speaker 1: effortless cool. But you have an Arnold Palmer story I
Speaker 1: want to hear. Right. Let let's say, have I ever
Speaker 1: told you about my last visit with Arnold I saw Arnold.
Speaker 1: I would like to thank no reporters or Arnold more
Speaker 1: than I did when he was in his eighties. My
Speaker 1: last visit with him was in Latrobe, and I drove
Speaker 1: there wearing these pathetic birken stocks when I got always
Speaker 1: I'll just wear my shoes when I get there. But
Speaker 1: when I got there, all I had was my Echo
Speaker 1: golf shoes. And Arnold's really formal. And I'm going into
Speaker 1: his office with my cleaned up Echo golf shoes and
Speaker 1: almost like checking me out, and He's nodding, and I said, Arnold,
Speaker 1: what you're looking at my socks and these armoms like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at your shoes. And then Arnold talked about
Speaker 1: all the different shoes he wore, and no questioner, Arnold
Speaker 1: Doug the Echo shoe. I love the Echo show. I
Speaker 1: know you do too. Uh. It's a great shoe sales resistant.
Speaker 1: If it's good enough for Arnold Palmer and Fred Couples,
Speaker 1: it's good enough for the rest of you. So go
Speaker 1: to Echo dot com and um, you can find one
Speaker 1: that fits that you like that people will stare at,
Speaker 1: like Arnie. So back to need a fourth Hello, This
Speaker 1: is Alan Schipnuk back for another edition of Need a
Speaker 1: Fourth The Podcast or Myself, Jeff Ogilvie and Michael Bamberger
Speaker 1: take turns surprising each other with a surprise mystery guest
Speaker 1: that's actually might be redundant, But anyway, they don't know
Speaker 1: who's who's waiting in the waiting room. I do, so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna gave you guys a couple of hits. Um, Michael,
Speaker 1: this will interest you. He's not gonna help you. Guess
Speaker 1: it's so esoteric. But his father founded People magazine, so
Speaker 1: h came up in the typing trade. Uh. This gentleman
Speaker 1: is not a professional golfer. He's but he's one of
Speaker 1: the most enthusiastic avid golfers. I know. If you follow
Speaker 1: him on social media, and a million people do just
Speaker 1: on Twitter, you know he's often teeing it up somewhere
Speaker 1: fancy or or not so fancy. He's he's a he's
Speaker 1: a man of the people as well. Um, he can
Speaker 1: talk about football the way that we can talk about golf. No, okay, Uh.
Speaker 1: His uh his given name is a mystery to many. Uh,
Speaker 1: but he has a Roman numeral three at the end
Speaker 1: of his full name, much like Davis Loved the Third,
Speaker 1: who many people referred to as Trip not Loud and Wait,
Speaker 1: not Loud and Wayne Right the third. I don't know him,
Speaker 1: but I'd like to. But Jeff does. He's a musician
Speaker 1: and his and his grandfather did work for chime ink
Speaker 1: but did not found people magazines. Okay, so it's not
Speaker 1: it's not Trip, but it's of that genre. It's one
Speaker 1: of the great names in in in the sports media galaxy.
Speaker 1: It's one of your buddies from Carmel. Who No, it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not one of you, but not a Carmel guy.
Speaker 1: I'm titling lost. All right, I'm gonna put you out
Speaker 1: of misery. Let's let's bring in from the waiting room
Speaker 1: Trey Wingo, Mr Wingo. There, Ah, there he is. Hello, sir,
Speaker 1: how are you? You're talking to me? I'm talking to you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nobody calls me sir. I'm doing great, Alan, are you man? Awesome?
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here. Uh. You know this this
Speaker 1: is a golfy podcast. We have many people who are
Speaker 1: deep in the game and and the golf media, and
Speaker 1: they're they're professional golfers and that sort of stuff. But
Speaker 1: I think you're one of the most avid amateurs I know,
Speaker 1: and I thought it'd be fun to get your take
Speaker 1: on on many things. Uh, to tell tell the listeners
Speaker 1: and the co host about your your love for the
Speaker 1: sport because they may not know how deep it runs
Speaker 1: in your veins. Here. Yeah, it's pretty pathetically deep, for
Speaker 1: lack of a better term. I never played a lot
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, Um, just you know, screwing
Speaker 1: around here and there. And then I got into a
Speaker 1: little bit in my in my twenties. Uh, and uh,
Speaker 1: I fell in love with golf watching the War at
Speaker 1: the Shore the nine Ryder Cup, I just thought it
Speaker 1: was the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1: And to this day, Um, honestly, the Ryder Cup is
Speaker 1: my favorite sporting about of all time. You know, it's
Speaker 1: only sport, the only event I know where millionaires to
Speaker 1: play for free, you know, and uh, they played for
Speaker 1: the Pride and it's just it's it's awesome. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I love the game, even though the game doesn't love
Speaker 1: me back a lot, but I I enjoy I enjoy
Speaker 1: the adventure of it. Like I think, if I was
Speaker 1: really good at it, it might not be as enjoyable.
Speaker 1: I know that sounds crazy, but like the maddening part
Speaker 1: of it where you can go out and play like
Speaker 1: you finally figured it out, and then the next time
Speaker 1: you step on a golf court, it's like you're holding
Speaker 1: a snow shovel in your hands and not a driver.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the part of it that drives
Speaker 1: me a little crazy, but it also makes it fun. Well,
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree probably the baddest mofo
Speaker 1: who has ever walked the planet is Jim Brown, the
Speaker 1: former NFL running back, and he once cited his favorite
Speaker 1: sporting event to be the Wryter Cup for all the
Speaker 1: reasons you laid out, And so I'm curious as you
Speaker 1: travel through the NFL universe is golf universe so language,
Speaker 1: and you find yourself having these these deep discussions with
Speaker 1: the guys have nothing to do with football, but it's
Speaker 1: more about the game you both love, oh absolutely, And
Speaker 1: you see more and more of these guys picking up golf,
Speaker 1: especially in the off season. You know, Patrick Mahomes, when
Speaker 1: he was at Lake Tahoe a year ago, says I'm
Speaker 1: coming for you, Marty, and I'm like, yeah, you need
Speaker 1: to relax Marty Fish might be the best non professional
Speaker 1: golfer I've ever played with in my life. Like Marty
Speaker 1: is so incredibly good. Like I think if he didn't,
Speaker 1: if he wasn't going to be a pro tennis player,
Speaker 1: he could have been a pro golfer. But yeah, there
Speaker 1: are there are so many guys in the NFL that
Speaker 1: are so into golf. It's what they do a lot
Speaker 1: in the off season. So it is absolutely, like you said,
Speaker 1: a universal language. You know when when you get a
Speaker 1: bunch of quarterbacks together, uh after they talk about spirals
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, that they start doing
Speaker 1: this and you know they go, what what am I am?
Speaker 1: My closing too soon? You know, they go, they go
Speaker 1: through all the machinations that all of us do. Trey,
Speaker 1: have you ever played with John smalt spinning chance, because
Speaker 1: he would be my leader in the in the clubhouse
Speaker 1: and that exact specific category that you just mentioned, Smallty,
Speaker 1: like that whole brave staff of the nineties like Steve Avery,
Speaker 1: Glavin Maddox, they all played golf, but Smaltz was by
Speaker 1: far the best. My my favorite, my best John Smallt
Speaker 1: story of all time is when my son was younger,
Speaker 1: He's twenty seven now. We used to go down to
Speaker 1: at disney World every year for his birthday, and I
Speaker 1: ran into Small at one of those water parks. I
Speaker 1: can't remember which one. It was, one of those two
Speaker 1: water parks at disney World. He was there with his
Speaker 1: kids on vacation, and I was there with my kids
Speaker 1: taking them down for a birthday celebration, and we were,
Speaker 1: you know, we're being the dorkey dad's at the water
Speaker 1: park at disney Worlds like that, is you right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: We're just here sort of mess around with the kids.
Speaker 1: So my summer job when I was in college, I
Speaker 1: was a cartboy at Pebble Beach Golf Links and not terrible,
Speaker 1: not terrible. I mean that's why I really learned to
Speaker 1: play in the game, which is I say, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, losing your virginity to Jennifer Lawrence. It's it's
Speaker 1: all downhill from there. And the head pro said, hey,
Speaker 1: run up to the driving range and pick some guys up.
Speaker 1: I said, I just did a sweet there's nobody there.
Speaker 1: He's like, just go up there and wait around. I
Speaker 1: was like, And so all of a sudden, this helicopter
Speaker 1: touches down and Disgorges, the entire Atlanta Braves pitching staff.
Speaker 1: They had like a night game up at against the
Speaker 1: Giants at Cantilestick Park and they all helicopter down. They
Speaker 1: played pebble and they took off. I thought that was
Speaker 1: like the most macho thing I've ever seen. Membership has
Speaker 1: its privileges. I think is the saying on the American
Speaker 1: Express card get mass Jeff a question related to this.
Speaker 1: Every Jeff, you'll see elite athletes like we're speaking of here,
Speaker 1: um Fish and and Smaltz and uh and others. And
Speaker 1: Michael Mike Schmidt, the former third basement for the Phillies,
Speaker 1: I would say, was in this category. John Brody was
Speaker 1: in this category, John Brody. They look like the real
Speaker 1: deal until you get to about eighty yards and in,
Speaker 1: And I wonder why that is? What why can't a
Speaker 1: really elite athlete figure out eighty yards and in like
Speaker 1: you guys can, Well, I look like the real deal
Speaker 1: to you, I guess um coming in with right away,
Speaker 1: like right away to you can see. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: played with Romo a few times. I used to play
Speaker 1: with Derrick Anderson like the he was a backup. He
Speaker 1: played in Cleveland for a long time, back up behind
Speaker 1: um Can Newton and Carolina the great Scapusan. He was
Speaker 1: a really really good player. Um, they're so talented. There's
Speaker 1: such good athletes, especially they're throwing athletes, like you said,
Speaker 1: the pitchers the baseball as the quarterbacks. Um, they can
Speaker 1: find the ball from spots where most people couldn't find
Speaker 1: the ball. You know, they can make something that isn't
Speaker 1: really that great work. But you can't really short game,
Speaker 1: I think is pros. We all grew up around a
Speaker 1: chipping green, you know, and putting and chipping around the
Speaker 1: house with plastic balls, and there's such an innate, sort
Speaker 1: of undescribable feeling to it that you just you can't
Speaker 1: just be a great athlete and be a good have
Speaker 1: a good short game. You know, you've I've actually learned
Speaker 1: the craft. I guess it's like art, or like drawing,
Speaker 1: or I mean something playing music, playing musical instrument. You
Speaker 1: can't just sort of play the right notes. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got to actually get involved, and I think you've
Speaker 1: got to do it for a long time. And I
Speaker 1: think that too. And they're too strong. I mean, they're
Speaker 1: massive athletes, these guys and they spend the whole time
Speaker 1: pushing weights as hard as they can and hitting guys
Speaker 1: as hard as they can. That's not what you do
Speaker 1: in the short game, right, So, um, I mean they
Speaker 1: get there. I mean eventually, when they play a lot,
Speaker 1: you see them retire from their sport and just focus
Speaker 1: on golf, and they get better and better and better.
Speaker 1: But um, shortcame just takes time. I think a good
Speaker 1: athlete can hit a ball pretty quickly because they're just talented.
Speaker 1: But short games are as a craft, and you can't
Speaker 1: just paint by numbers. You've got to learn it well.
Speaker 1: I mean. The correlarity to that, Michael, is that if
Speaker 1: you go to a corn Ferry event or the two
Speaker 1: America event on the driving range, all these guys look
Speaker 1: like tour players, and then you go to the practice
Speaker 1: pudding green and you see all the weird contraptions, the
Speaker 1: funky strokes, and you know guys are tearing their hair out.
Speaker 1: So I mean, even even elite golfers who am playing
Speaker 1: golf the whole life, the story game is the separator, right,
Speaker 1: I got a I got a great story. I gotta
Speaker 1: share their U of a buddy of mine who's a
Speaker 1: member at Royal Oak in in Dallas, and they had
Speaker 1: some guy who was trying to make a tour stop
Speaker 1: there down there all hit on the range and this
Speaker 1: guy was like striping everything right. He was hitting you know,
Speaker 1: high fades, low draws, what I mean, everything every shot
Speaker 1: you could possibly imagine. And this local caddy came up
Speaker 1: and said, man, you must not be able to put
Speaker 1: her chip with a damn. He's like, why do you
Speaker 1: say that, because because if you did, I'd sure as
Speaker 1: he'll know who you are. A quick follow up to
Speaker 1: Jeff's point when he says, you know, they looked to
Speaker 1: me like they might be pretty good. I was one
Speaker 1: when year Watson ms the cut. Of course he missed
Speaker 1: will cut a lot in the last ten or fifteen Masters,
Speaker 1: but he was on the range on Saturday afternoon because
Speaker 1: he had a senior event the next week, and he
Speaker 1: said it great. And I'm I'm the only person in
Speaker 1: the stands and Watson is the only person on the
Speaker 1: practice see, and so when he was done, I said, Tom,
Speaker 1: it looks pretty good. He said, you think so? I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: it looked good to me. He said that session sucked.
Speaker 1: I said, really, I thought it looked good. I said,
Speaker 1: I thought it looked good. He said, that's because you're
Speaker 1: a chop. Wow more high heat. Damn. Uh. I had
Speaker 1: to tell one more Pebble Beach story, just because it's
Speaker 1: so funny that the National Hockey League Players Association had
Speaker 1: some big boondoggle out there and all these dudes rolled up.
Speaker 1: This is again, this is early nineties, and they it's
Speaker 1: like nine in the morning, and these guys already been boozing,
Speaker 1: you could just tell. And so maybe a couple dozen
Speaker 1: of them ring the first tea and Jeremy Roenick, remember
Speaker 1: that guy. He was, He was a great hockey player.
Speaker 1: And he's on the first and he pulls out his
Speaker 1: driver and of course, you guys know pebble beats first
Speaker 1: holds this very short gentle dog leg part four. I
Speaker 1: mean it's a hybrid or it's a for Jeff, it's
Speaker 1: probably a three iron or whatever. And he's a guy's driver.
Speaker 1: The catties like, you know, sir, I I that's too
Speaker 1: much club. Uh. He's like, well, i'll try. I'll try,
Speaker 1: and just say I cut the owner, okay. And so
Speaker 1: he hit one dead straight and it flew the bunker,
Speaker 1: it flew the tree and almost hit the house, which
Speaker 1: is so far up the hill. I never thought it
Speaker 1: was in play. And all these other hockey guys like
Speaker 1: literally fell down laughing. It was Pandemony was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a very sloppy day at Pebble Beach. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a great Jeremy ronic story from Pebble Beach.
Speaker 1: I was playing in a charity tournament there, seven eight
Speaker 1: years ago. And you know it's a it's a it's
Speaker 1: a charity event at Pebble Beach. It's gonna be slow anyway, right,
Speaker 1: Ronick just decided because he's Jeremy Ronick. Hey, the guys
Speaker 1: in front of me, I know you guys, let's play
Speaker 1: as an ates them. So we're behind him. We're now
Speaker 1: playing behind Jeremy Ronick on Pebble Beach and he's playing
Speaker 1: and ate them. He was that guy. He was that guy.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you said nothing right, Oh I was
Speaker 1: at I was. I was. I was the host that
Speaker 1: night and I gave a speech and I may try
Speaker 1: to point it out, but he was that guy. I
Speaker 1: love it, so I be true. You do get to
Speaker 1: travel around and play a lot of great places, as
Speaker 1: do Michael and I and obviously Jeff as well, let's
Speaker 1: let's hear, let's hear your favorites, and we're gonna critique
Speaker 1: your list and be prepared. Well, alright, this is this
Speaker 1: is Uh. I gotta come strong here now. Look. I
Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate to have played a lot of places
Speaker 1: that I really enjoy, in a lot of great places
Speaker 1: that a lot of people want to play. But I
Speaker 1: gotta say, uh, Cabin is about as special as it gets.
Speaker 1: Um up there at in in Nova Scotia, Um Cabin
Speaker 1: Cliffs is Uh, It's just just a remarkable golf course. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's six six and six six, three, six fours and
Speaker 1: six fives, which I think is really fun. And almost
Speaker 1: every hole has his stunning view of the ocean. Almost
Speaker 1: every hole is so incredibly unique. Cabin and the Links
Speaker 1: course is great too. It's just a pure Links of
Speaker 1: course right by the water. But the Cliff's course is
Speaker 1: more dramatic with the with you know, with sixteen and
Speaker 1: seventeen right along the water there. I mean eighteen is
Speaker 1: as well, but literally sixteens apart three over the gulf,
Speaker 1: so that would be way up there. Uh. It used
Speaker 1: to be the challenge at Minnelli now it's called Lenai Golf.
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite courses I've ever played. Bill
Speaker 1: Gates got married on the twelfth green there. Uh, in
Speaker 1: a true flex of f you money. He grounded every
Speaker 1: single private aviation on all of the Hawaiian islands, helicopters,
Speaker 1: airplanes everywhere around, so nobody could take off and fly
Speaker 1: over and take pictures of his wedding on the twelfth
Speaker 1: Green at Minnelli. I mean, that's that's the ultimate financial
Speaker 1: flex that I could think of. Memo to Bill Gates,
Speaker 1: we don't care. Nobody really wants those photos of Bill.
Speaker 1: You're not Tiger Woods at Sandy Lane. Come on, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true, that's fair. But he did it anyway, Like
Speaker 1: I just I just respected the flex, like the entire
Speaker 1: fleet of all. But you'd have to come from Seattle
Speaker 1: or l A if you wanted to film my uh
Speaker 1: film my wedding. So I thought that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Just got back from Piner's, played the Dormy Club for
Speaker 1: the first time, which was really really fun. Uh. That
Speaker 1: was you know, they just that whole Dormy Now we're
Speaker 1: starting up and we played the Dormy Club, which is
Speaker 1: five ten minutes outside of pine Hurst. That was a
Speaker 1: really really special experience. Have you played Tobacco Road? I
Speaker 1: have not. In fact, we were debating, no, let's see
Speaker 1: the hold on, hold on now, hold on. We were
Speaker 1: debating whether or not we were gonna go because we
Speaker 1: we had this one extra day. We were either gonna
Speaker 1: go to Tobacco Road or the Dormy Club. And so
Speaker 1: we decided to go to the Dormy Club. And next time,
Speaker 1: I promise you we will hit Tobacco Road, because that
Speaker 1: that was the other option. You chose poorly, But I
Speaker 1: mean Tobacco Road to be and unfortunately everyone's discovered it
Speaker 1: and it's become it's become very trendy. But I'm a
Speaker 1: Mike's trance guy. I wrote a big story about it
Speaker 1: for for Golf magazine years ago, and that, to me
Speaker 1: is the wildest golf course ever made by God or man,
Speaker 1: and I obviolutly love it. It's too polarizing for Michael
Speaker 1: would probably hate it. But well that's the thing. That's
Speaker 1: why every you either love Tobacco Road or you hate it.
Speaker 1: So Michael, where are you on that one? I haven't been,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure Alan will get me there before for
Speaker 1: too long day may ask you a quick question about
Speaker 1: the gonna need a bigger boat sign behind your head. Now, that,
Speaker 1: of course is a reference to Jaws, as I know,
Speaker 1: but it does refer to the movie or is it
Speaker 1: some other reference for you? No, that's a yeah that
Speaker 1: we we got an uh Chatham, Massachusetts up in Cape
Speaker 1: Cod And of course they filmed the They filmed the
Speaker 1: movie Jaws off Martha's Vineyard. So yeah, that's absolutely and
Speaker 1: omag ship Jaws the Movie're Gonna need a pick a boat.
Speaker 1: That is a deeply accurate comment when you say off
Speaker 1: Martha's Vineyard, because a lot of it was aquatic. Uh,
Speaker 1: but many of the scenes were shot in the village
Speaker 1: of Edgar Town. It's it's it's steered to me because
Speaker 1: my first newspaper job was on the Vineyard Gazette and
Speaker 1: Martha's Vineyard. And uh so some of the extras, a
Speaker 1: lot of the extras in that movie were people that
Speaker 1: I knew. Uh. My country doctor was the country doctor
Speaker 1: in the movie. Sheriff huck Look was in the uh.
Speaker 1: And there's a wonderful golf course that our recommend to
Speaker 1: any of you, um, if you can get over there.
Speaker 1: It's a nine hole. It's a little hard to get onto,
Speaker 1: but I think Jeff would be able to add know
Speaker 1: about the other the others of us. Um, it's called
Speaker 1: the Eggertown Golf Club. It's a nine holes. It's back
Speaker 1: to I would think, and uh, really tiny greens and
Speaker 1: tiny bunkers and big lips, and it moves and it's sandy.
Speaker 1: It's really a jump those a great level up nine
Speaker 1: hole golf course. I think it's called Camera what's calling
Speaker 1: They just it's up in trural mass and uh, it's
Speaker 1: actually you can play it as a team, but it's
Speaker 1: just using different teams. But it's a nine holes right
Speaker 1: across the right next to the National Sea Shore right there. Obviously, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a public course. They don't have the money to
Speaker 1: keep it up on you. But but the layout is
Speaker 1: absolutely fantastic. It's got some really great holes right along
Speaker 1: the National Sea Shore there. You know what's so funny
Speaker 1: about this conversation is they just re released Jaws on
Speaker 1: the big screen in three D. And I took my
Speaker 1: fourteen year old son and three of his buddies on
Speaker 1: Friday night, and they kind of knew what it was,
Speaker 1: but they didn't really know. And They were riveted because
Speaker 1: it's it's very much a psychological, suspenseful movie. It's not
Speaker 1: just people getting chewed up spit out like any modern
Speaker 1: take on the movie would be. And they were super
Speaker 1: into it. So well, yeah, you didn't see the shark
Speaker 1: until like sixty seventy minutes into the movie. Great point, Yeah, exactly, Jeff,
Speaker 1: was Jaws a big movie in Australia? Are you kidding?
Speaker 1: Jaws was a Tuesday in Australia. That's a day that
Speaker 1: ends in Ye. Yeah, we've got some shocks. But you
Speaker 1: obviously love the movie because you've thought about your studio
Speaker 1: set up man and you've chosen Jaws as the the
Speaker 1: main theme to your studio. So well done. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sharks are It's just part of being in Australian really,
Speaker 1: Like they're just fish, just giant, enormous fish that will
Speaker 1: kill you. What Jews did do is it stopped Australian
Speaker 1: tourism for a while. I think if the Australian Tourism Board,
Speaker 1: even though the shock was in the US, everyone and
Speaker 1: everyone you meet around the world it's like, I'd love
Speaker 1: to go to Australia, but you've got sharks and snakes
Speaker 1: and spoties. I don't want to go down there. It's scary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you've got real You've got real Melbourne too, So
Speaker 1: that's six. I did play. I did play News South
Speaker 1: Wales a few years ago. That was that's awesome, that
Speaker 1: was a special day. But it is funny you say that, ye,
Speaker 1: because I know somebody that went to Australia recently and said,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get in the water, like I'm not getting
Speaker 1: the water their sharks there. I'm like, okay, come on now,
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's it's not like everybody that jumps
Speaker 1: in the water in Australia and you know there's a
Speaker 1: neon signed around their their neck that'sys eat me. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not quite that simple. You really have
Speaker 1: to have some bad luck to be eaten by eaten
Speaker 1: by a shark, and somewhere in Australia unless you're unless
Speaker 1: you're your rotten nest Island. Yeah, they're very territorial. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Western Australia is rough. Um. I mean it's like it
Speaker 1: would be like getting bitten by a Rattlesnike in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: Like it just doesn't happen. If you got away, there's
Speaker 1: no sharks. You do not get bitten by a shot, correct, Jeff.
Speaker 1: When I played New South Wales absolutely blew my mind.
Speaker 1: I thought it was maybe the most spectacular and possibly
Speaker 1: the hardest golfer has ever played off the tea. I
Speaker 1: just felt like every hole you're standing there and you
Speaker 1: had to hit it over a hill and threaded between
Speaker 1: this and that, and like, I mean, I love the challenge.
Speaker 1: I wasn't totally up to it, but it was just
Speaker 1: I thought, what was absolutely incredible championship. Of course it's
Speaker 1: not one that gets discussed like Royal Melbourne or Kingston Heath.
Speaker 1: I mean, what is your feelings about about New South Wales.
Speaker 1: I think it's incredible. Yeah, it's a minute. It depends
Speaker 1: on the day you play. I mean you probably played
Speaker 1: windy days when you were playing there. It's generally windy. Uh,
Speaker 1: It's it's incredible. It's a little bit uh fiddly. I
Speaker 1: think for us, now how far we hit it, there's
Speaker 1: a couple of holes you've got to sort of take
Speaker 1: some really weird, crazy lines on because the kind of
Speaker 1: technology has grown out of it for professionals probably um
Speaker 1: and we've had some Australian opens and we had one.
Speaker 1: We had a wind delay and stuff. So there's like
Speaker 1: sort of logistic issues to that. Um. But it's an
Speaker 1: incredible place. When you play the first few holes, you like,
Speaker 1: this place is pretty good, and you come over the
Speaker 1: whole either the hill on five and you just see
Speaker 1: the whole thing in the ocean and all that. It's
Speaker 1: just like what I've sort of delayed reveal to the day,
Speaker 1: you know. And then you hang along the ocean, you
Speaker 1: go back in and you go back towards the ocean
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit like pebble, like that delayed
Speaker 1: reveal when you walk off the fourth team and you
Speaker 1: sort of get past the structure and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it's all there in front of you. It's um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in New South Wales is untalked about. I mean Mackenzie
Speaker 1: went there to he had a bit of an influence there. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think the sand Belt just gets
Speaker 1: the it just gets the credit so much because of
Speaker 1: role Melbourne and Kingston, Heathan the supporting cast, I think. Um.
Speaker 1: And there's that Melbourne Sydney sort of thing which is
Speaker 1: a bit like uh, New York Boston sort of thing
Speaker 1: going on that we don't talk about Sydney wear and Melbourne.
Speaker 1: They're not relevant in the golf since you know, But yeah,
Speaker 1: New South Wales is fantastic. Another one I played when
Speaker 1: I was over there was Hamilton's Island. Now that was
Speaker 1: a fun golf course, like the only the only thing
Speaker 1: on the island is the golf course and the pro shop,
Speaker 1: Like there's nothing else on the it's it's not even
Speaker 1: on Hamilton Islands. On a separate you take a ferry
Speaker 1: from Hamilton's Island across this channel to get to the
Speaker 1: island where the golf courses and like the drive from
Speaker 1: the seventeenth green to the eight tea, I sweart of
Speaker 1: got it took ten fifteen minutes in the golf like
Speaker 1: there's nothing else on this island. It was. I was like,
Speaker 1: am I lost it? Am I being punked? It took
Speaker 1: that long? But it was it was a really interesting
Speaker 1: layout over there. How many balls did you lose? More
Speaker 1: than I care to talk about on this podcast. Um,
Speaker 1: there's still come over. You catch the boat from Hamilton Island,
Speaker 1: the main island, and you get a little boat across
Speaker 1: the golf course and like try says, it's the only
Speaker 1: it's the only thing on the island and they'll ast
Speaker 1: you how many balls you've got and if you only
Speaker 1: have a dozen balls, and like when you better buy
Speaker 1: a couple more dozen because you're gonna be coming back
Speaker 1: in mids and more. And there's um under the stories
Speaker 1: about four or five or six seven dozen balls. They
Speaker 1: were coming in after six holes to get more balls.
Speaker 1: It's like if you missed the faila, you've lost well.
Speaker 1: And they also have this sign up that says, do
Speaker 1: not go look for your ball because every poisons thing
Speaker 1: you can possibly think of exists on this island, So
Speaker 1: do not go into the weeds. Now humans, lots of
Speaker 1: snikes trade. Did you get to to King Island? Um?
Speaker 1: You know it's kind of happay between Melbourne and Tazzi. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't. And the one, the one thing that the
Speaker 1: white whale on my list right now is Terry Eatie.
Speaker 1: Like I I need to find a way to get
Speaker 1: to And I know there's a bunch of great golf
Speaker 1: courses in New Zealand. I understand that, but you know,
Speaker 1: I've seen a couple of videos of Terry Eadie and
Speaker 1: it just looks incredible. So I've gotta I've gotta figure
Speaker 1: out that's that's the next one on the on the checklist.
Speaker 1: I've got to find a way to get to terry Etie. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's only forty five minutes from
Speaker 1: the Auckland airport, so it's quite accessible once once you
Speaker 1: get to the New Zealand if you want to get
Speaker 1: getting to New Zealand. Park's part. That's the hard part.
Speaker 1: I mean, like from Auckland, it's not a problem. It's
Speaker 1: the going from the United States to New Zealand does
Speaker 1: the issue. Yeah, okay, that's the issue. But you shouldn't
Speaker 1: at this point. You should wait another year two because
Speaker 1: they're building two more courses things. And yeah that I
Speaker 1: said about seven Mile Beach, that's um, that's Mike Clayton production,
Speaker 1: isn't it, Jeff, Like in Tasmania. Yeah, it's worth fighting
Speaker 1: probably a year or so because there's a couple more
Speaker 1: coming along. You can do an unbelievable sort of coastal
Speaker 1: golf course to it down here. Um, Tarradi is definitely
Speaker 1: worth it. I feel like there's probably a couple of
Speaker 1: footballers are members. It's very lots of American members of Tarradi,
Speaker 1: so you can find your way in there. But that's
Speaker 1: the beauty of it. I mean, they say, like they
Speaker 1: realize how special the place is that if you just
Speaker 1: get a letter from your club you can go over
Speaker 1: there and play, because, like I said, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: get over there very often. So they do allow you
Speaker 1: to play, but only once, Trey, you can only play once.
Speaker 1: So like we're sort of kidding ourselves because we went
Speaker 1: over and played it a couple of years ago and
Speaker 1: it was phenomenal. But now these other ones are coming
Speaker 1: online which will be public, so they're they're but they're
Speaker 1: the original tart they say is going to be like
Speaker 1: our Cyprus Point and these next two will be like
Speaker 1: our Pebble and our spy Glass. So that's super cool. Um,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not of some members. I'll get you
Speaker 1: on okay. That's that's a verbal commitment. That's a contract.
Speaker 1: That is a verbal contract from Jeff Ogilvie and I'm
Speaker 1: holding him to it. Um. I played North Barron a
Speaker 1: few years ago. That was pretty special too. In gold
Speaker 1: that one man that was a cool golf course. It's
Speaker 1: top five in my list. Jeff, Let's let's hear yours
Speaker 1: not to put you on the spot. But you are
Speaker 1: not only a better golfer than three of us, you
Speaker 1: are a very refined eye and you actually build golf courses.
Speaker 1: So I've never asked you what your your favorite courses are.
Speaker 1: I could probably guess, but let me hear it from you. Um,
Speaker 1: well you I don't know. Uh. It's so subjective, right,
Speaker 1: Like these golf course ranking lists are so ridiculous. Um,
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as the best golf course. Um No,
Speaker 1: I didn't say best, I just said favorite, because that's
Speaker 1: a little I'm just putting some Uh. I don't want
Speaker 1: anyone to hold me to any lists. This is not
Speaker 1: a ranking. Um. My favorite place to play in the world. Well,
Speaker 1: the places that I've had enjoyed my game of golf,
Speaker 1: the most number one is win Lee Forest UM, just
Speaker 1: west of London Um, near Sunningdale. It was Harry Colt
Speaker 1: who did all those sort of heath land courses in
Speaker 1: London Um had a lot to do with Pine Valley
Speaker 1: and he called it in his book his Least Bad Course,
Speaker 1: which I thought was a cool description, very humble man
Speaker 1: fantastic place. It's like a mini Pine Valley. It's like
Speaker 1: really small, it's probably only might not even be six
Speaker 1: thousand yards, um, way too small. But to go out
Speaker 1: with a little half set and a little leather carry
Speaker 1: bag and walk along with your Cocca Spaniel, it's like
Speaker 1: just the perfect golf experience for me. Um, that's the red,
Speaker 1: that's the one off to the side. I think Pine
Speaker 1: Valley is an incredible golf experience. Um, you go with,
Speaker 1: you go with your boys, you go stay overnight. It's
Speaker 1: it's the whole experience of Pine Valley. The course is
Speaker 1: really great. I think it's probably not very democratic because
Speaker 1: I think unless you're a good a really good player,
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna find it too hard. Um. It's
Speaker 1: so visually intimidating though. Right like, for example, the second
Speaker 1: hall of Pine Alley, there's just all the ship on
Speaker 1: the left side, all the ship on the right side,
Speaker 1: but the fairways fifty you are to wide. But in
Speaker 1: your eye all you see is what I can't hit
Speaker 1: it here. I can't hit it here. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's tough and you're gonna be long, and so that's
Speaker 1: it's clearly an unbelievable achievement in building a golf course.
Speaker 1: Um Bine Valley, and it's amazing. Look, I mean Shinnacock National.
Speaker 1: The whole sort of Southampton area is incredible. UM. Carmel obviously, Cyprus.
Speaker 1: Cyprus is one of my favorites. UM. I love golf
Speaker 1: in the Carolinas in general, at the pontost area. There's
Speaker 1: so many good golf courses around there, But the Old Course. Probably,
Speaker 1: if you get me one course to play for the
Speaker 1: rest of my life, it would have to be the
Speaker 1: Old Course. I just think it's better every time I
Speaker 1: play it, even though I've played it fifty or sixty times. Probably, Um,
Speaker 1: it's why golf is a sport. Like North Barracks along
Speaker 1: there with it, um, Press Wicks along there with it.
Speaker 1: But I think the Old Course, if you just look
Speaker 1: at it from every single angle where. We talked about
Speaker 1: it around the Open and stuff a lot. But it's
Speaker 1: why the sport is the sport, and it's why it's
Speaker 1: such a so great, such a great sport, and it's
Speaker 1: been so enduring. I think if it, if it's started
Speaker 1: a different way, UM, Gulf would look very different. But
Speaker 1: it was that whole thing. If if you just change
Speaker 1: the direction of something right at the beginning, it makes
Speaker 1: a big difference at the end got the Sandrew's pointed
Speaker 1: as often a pretty good direction, and I just love
Speaker 1: the town. And ah, you could live there to us
Speaker 1: three months a year and just play there every morning,
Speaker 1: you'd be pretty happy. What what do you about Kingsbarnshi
Speaker 1: out of curiosity, it's a it's a it's Kingsparn's is great.
Speaker 1: I think it was um a hundred years old. People
Speaker 1: would probably give it a bit more respect, you know,
Speaker 1: but it feels like it's been around for a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty years. I mean that when you walk on
Speaker 1: that golf course and you say it was open in
Speaker 1: two thousand, it's hard to believe it really is, because
Speaker 1: usually the new links just leave you like, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's just a bit they're trying a bit too hard.
Speaker 1: Um Kingsmarns. Yeah, they nailed it there. That's really cool.
Speaker 1: It's really cool property the way I kind of like
Speaker 1: the two loop, so you go out and back, then
Speaker 1: out and back um club bass in the middle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's stunning viewers, incredible up on the hill. Quite a
Speaker 1: dramatic land for links. Yeah, kings Bontin is really really
Speaker 1: cool for a new one. Note that I'm not asking
Speaker 1: Michael for his list of favorite golf courses because they'd
Speaker 1: be all these esoteric munis that none of us ever
Speaker 1: heard of, So we don't even need to go down
Speaker 1: the out courses off on his list. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: they'll of course stup on his list too, But that's
Speaker 1: all that is a UNI course in fairness. But yeah,
Speaker 1: what it is, the MUNI course in fairness. And I
Speaker 1: appreciate your your insight and it's it's an accurate one.
Speaker 1: But also I refused to participate in the discussion when
Speaker 1: there's any of the panelists referred to h s Henry
Speaker 1: Cole as Harry, they're already in such a lead beyond me.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know. I didn't even know a living
Speaker 1: person could call. So that's totally fair. Um, you know trade.
Speaker 1: One thing I was thinking about when looking looking forward
Speaker 1: to this conversation is, as you know, this is a
Speaker 1: time of great upheaval in the professional golf landscape and
Speaker 1: apparel like it's made a lot is between the USFL.
Speaker 1: It's it's uh, it's founding and trying to trying to
Speaker 1: siphon away talent from the NFL. I need to read
Speaker 1: Jeff Perlman's book and do a little more research on
Speaker 1: the whole topic, But what is your take on on
Speaker 1: that era as as as a scholar of football, What
Speaker 1: can we what can we learn from the demise of
Speaker 1: the USFL, And how can you extrapolate all this too
Speaker 1: to live golf in the PGA tour well without getting
Speaker 1: too political. Donald Trump was involved in both of them,
Speaker 1: so you know, you know Trump. Trump's big move with
Speaker 1: the USFL was let's go up against them in the fall,
Speaker 1: and it turned out to be an absolute disaster. They
Speaker 1: won the lawsuit for a dollar. You know, congratulations, you
Speaker 1: won three bucks because it was an anti lawsuit and
Speaker 1: you got a trouble and so big win huge um. Look, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's pronounced huge huge you w uh. Here's look, if
Speaker 1: you want to go play in the Lift Tour, fine,
Speaker 1: if you want to enjoy it, fine, But like I
Speaker 1: guess I would say, I don't think it had to
Speaker 1: be this way, Like I've never understood the tours sort
Speaker 1: of going to the mattresses mantra here right, Like to me,
Speaker 1: uneasy piece is always better than all out war. And
Speaker 1: you know, Jamnahan and everybody tried to shame people into
Speaker 1: staying and that didn't work, and then they tried to
Speaker 1: penalize people for leaving that didn't work and for all
Speaker 1: the stuff that you know, as you well know, Alan
Speaker 1: Phil got in trouble for. You know, it's amazing that
Speaker 1: when this Lives Tour started happening, a lot of things
Speaker 1: that a lot of players wanted to change ontour miraculously happened.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, well we found eighty million dollars.
Speaker 1: We don't know where this was from, and hey, let's
Speaker 1: do this and do that. So whether or not you
Speaker 1: like or don't like the Lip Tour, that's fine, that's
Speaker 1: your perspective. But I think it did force the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour to change, and I don't think that's gonna be
Speaker 1: a bad thing. Yeah, that's interesting. Well I appreciate you know,
Speaker 1: you we're all in our little bubbles and echo chambers,
Speaker 1: so you just speak for a kind of a hardcore
Speaker 1: golf fans that that's an interesting perspective. But what is
Speaker 1: the legacy the uf USFL? Did it? Did it change
Speaker 1: football in any way? No? Now, the NFL squashed it.
Speaker 1: I mean there were there weren't There weren't any innovations,
Speaker 1: you know, there weren't any there weren't things that. It
Speaker 1: was just another opportunity for places people to go. And like,
Speaker 1: you know, great great players like Reggie White started out
Speaker 1: in the USFL. Steve Young, my high school quarterbacks, started
Speaker 1: out in the USFL. Like when he got a forty
Speaker 1: million dollar contract, uh you know uh in nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: that was unheard of. Of course Steve would always say yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was paid out over forty years, you know,
Speaker 1: and he never saw any of that money. Um. I
Speaker 1: guess the difference there is on the live tour. It's
Speaker 1: all up front, right, They're they're throwing it all up front.
Speaker 1: I do find it interesting too that whenever it lived,
Speaker 1: golf is marketing this stuff and they put stuff out
Speaker 1: on social media. It's almost never about the golf. It's
Speaker 1: about a party. It's about look at this great food,
Speaker 1: you know, it's about I don't quite understand that if
Speaker 1: you're trying to draw me in with a golf, why
Speaker 1: are you putting everything on social media about lobster tails
Speaker 1: and champagne. That's the part I can't quite figure out.
Speaker 1: Trade the way sport, the direction, the way sports broadcasting
Speaker 1: is going. Is it possible that you could have a
Speaker 1: sports league, a very narrow sports league like Live Golf,
Speaker 1: and have it be successful only as a YouTube channel.
Speaker 1: And I say that having actually watched some of I
Speaker 1: shouldn't use the word actually, but having watched some of
Speaker 1: the broadcast yesterday of the of the Boston event, and
Speaker 1: it was good. I was surprised how good it was. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: it's it's it is good, right, I mean, And I
Speaker 1: think one of the things that we like about it
Speaker 1: is the thing that that it speaks to what you're
Speaker 1: just talking about. There are no commercials. It's constant action.
Speaker 1: If they do get a television network deal, which I
Speaker 1: think they will, um, that will change, you know, like
Speaker 1: everybody is up in arms about the playing through stuff.
Speaker 1: Uh you know when we go through on the Golf
Speaker 1: channel on NBC. Well, it's just constant action on the
Speaker 1: Lift Tour. And one of the reasons it's constant action
Speaker 1: is because they don't have to throw at any commercials.
Speaker 1: And remember, you know, people like, well, how can this
Speaker 1: survive as a business entity. That's not the point. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're not trying to build a successful business. They're trying
Speaker 1: to establish a brand, and they have unlimited funds in
Speaker 1: which to do so so you know, like, can it
Speaker 1: sustain this way? Yeah, they can sustain it as long
Speaker 1: as they freaking want to because they have more money
Speaker 1: than they know what to do with. Um. There they
Speaker 1: are parts of the live thing that I don't have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think are fun, like the I like the idea
Speaker 1: of the shotguns are you look, especially the Scottish Open
Speaker 1: this year. The difference I think in the in the
Speaker 1: early to late and late to early window for the
Speaker 1: first couple of days was a dramatic difference in scoring.
Speaker 1: So that part I understand. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: players like the team concept part of it. Um. I
Speaker 1: know Pat Perez does, uh, you know who's out there
Speaker 1: shot and makes a ton of money. Um. So that
Speaker 1: there are parts of it I think that are interesting
Speaker 1: and and are are are fascinating to watch, you know.
Speaker 1: And that what that t GL thing, that that that
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour is gonna do, that's basically top golf.
Speaker 1: Alan We're gonna Allen, We're gonna have to have a
Speaker 1: golf off between Trey and Uh and in Jeff and
Speaker 1: Uh because these two guys know we're golf than you
Speaker 1: would die and Jeff together, not Jeff ogilvie um part
Speaker 1: of me. I'm just having a moment here. Jeff. The
Speaker 1: former legal analysts Jeff two, Jeff two are Jeffrey, Jeff Trey.
Speaker 1: We had Jeff Tubanan recently. I'm sure you know the name.
Speaker 1: You may not know, but he is also really really
Speaker 1: passionate golf fan and follows it as c place you do.
Speaker 1: The fact that you know about the weather shift of
Speaker 1: the Scottish Open actually freaks me out, but that's a well,
Speaker 1: it's a true thing though. I mean, like you know,
Speaker 1: especially in the Open, and Jeff Will attested this, where
Speaker 1: you are on the weather draw half the time makes
Speaker 1: up whether or you're gonna be around on the top
Speaker 1: of the leaderboard. Absolutely, you know, I mean, don't that
Speaker 1: what's great about it? Yes, you're right, you're a hunter.
Speaker 1: Like Sergio used to complain about that all the time,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I remember the two thousands of the
Speaker 1: US Open at Bethpage when it was raining so hard,
Speaker 1: and Sergio actually said, well it was Tiger out there,
Speaker 1: they would have stopped it. And I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: just waggle some more and move on, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. That's when he that's when he couldn't pull
Speaker 1: the trigger. You know, he's just doing this a hundred
Speaker 1: fifty times, and the folks at Bethpage we're getting on him.
Speaker 1: So uh there, Look, the Live Tour isn't going away
Speaker 1: like I think we can all agree on that. It's
Speaker 1: not going anywhere. So the question is do you want
Speaker 1: to be in a constant battle with it or you
Speaker 1: want to try and find a way to make it
Speaker 1: all work together. Jeff, I'm curious of you. You're such
Speaker 1: a purist. Do you love everything about golf? But would
Speaker 1: you would you grumble about the draw at the Open sometimes?
Speaker 1: Or is that is that is the time never got
Speaker 1: a good draw? That's part of it. It's part of
Speaker 1: the Open, It's part of what it charms. But it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to happen forty times a year. It's a
Speaker 1: room for different stuff, right. I think there's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to make the big tournaments bigger by having a little
Speaker 1: bit of silliness softer decide. I mean, not that lives silly,
Speaker 1: but it's different. Um, the shotgun starts great, like Trey says,
Speaker 1: when it's ont of network. It might be different with
Speaker 1: the ads, but the shotguns start combined with the team thing,
Speaker 1: Like you see more golf in an hour and a
Speaker 1: live broadcast, and you're doing three hours on a normal
Speaker 1: to a broadcast, just shot after shot after shot after
Speaker 1: shot after shot. Because there's not only interest in the winners.
Speaker 1: I mean, yesterday was, UM, Boston was. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of guys in it, and there's not always gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of guys in it coming down a stretch,
Speaker 1: but there's, um, the team thing. And the team thing
Speaker 1: is so volatile. It's so much more interesting than a
Speaker 1: stroke play event when a guy's six in front or
Speaker 1: five in front and nothing happens for the last four
Speaker 1: hours and you can come in and out every half
Speaker 1: an hour and just check that he's still four in front. Um,
Speaker 1: the volatility of that team thing is really cool. Um,
Speaker 1: I'd go harder on the team team, and I would
Speaker 1: drift away from individual golf a little bit and go
Speaker 1: harder on the team thing. I think, Um, there's plenty
Speaker 1: of room in fifty two weeks a year to have both,
Speaker 1: you know, UM, and I think the team thing it's
Speaker 1: got something going for it. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: if the way it's being played will get people will
Speaker 1: be buying jerseys and merchandise and like saying I'm of
Speaker 1: all about this team or that team or DJ's team
Speaker 1: is gonna win this week and all that. But I
Speaker 1: think if you if they pushed that a little bit harder,
Speaker 1: I think, Um, I think the team thing's got a
Speaker 1: lot of merit. I mean, look the best too, or
Speaker 1: at least the two of the most interesting tournaments and
Speaker 1: go for the Ryder Cup and the President's Cup. Um,
Speaker 1: like trade started at the start, It's like, there's no
Speaker 1: reason you couldn't have a professional league match player. I mean,
Speaker 1: let's bring match play back a little bit. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just think there's room for both. UM and I
Speaker 1: think what we don't need forty weeks a year with
Speaker 1: the same thing. I think if you actually had less
Speaker 1: of that, they would actually be more important. You know
Speaker 1: that the real golf isn't going to go win the
Speaker 1: Open with the weird drawer and the twelve hour gap
Speaker 1: between first and last daytime. And that's like Cam Smith
Speaker 1: to pick a live flare. Um, that's just the pinnacle
Speaker 1: of golf. But you don't need to try to match
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of golf every week because that's sort of
Speaker 1: undermanding the pinnacle of golf. You know, I need there's
Speaker 1: room for everything. Well, and the team aspect can be
Speaker 1: even more compelling is that they're they're already sort of
Speaker 1: unofficially grouping guys by nationality. So if you have an
Speaker 1: Aussie team that's camp Smith and Mark Leishman and you
Speaker 1: know a couple other guys. Um, I think people in
Speaker 1: Australia are gonna be more. They're gonna care about a
Speaker 1: little bit more and the silly names and stuff fall
Speaker 1: by the wayside. If if they're were, if they've got
Speaker 1: it as there are some weird there are some weird names.
Speaker 1: Let's just be understand. There are some weird names. There
Speaker 1: are some weird This is like the beta test. I mean,
Speaker 1: next year the teams are gonna look, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: very different, different names, different branding, because they're gonna be
Speaker 1: much more baked in and it will be for the
Speaker 1: whole year. Whereas they keep adding and subtracting parts this year,
Speaker 1: so it's all been a little wonky, but it'll be.
Speaker 1: It'll be much more baked out next year. And without
Speaker 1: question it's gonna be You're gonna have a South African
Speaker 1: team and Australian team. You can have a Latin American team, um,
Speaker 1: you know, go on down the list, and I think
Speaker 1: they'll probably an all English team, you know. I think
Speaker 1: that will just generate. It becomes essentially like the World
Speaker 1: Cup right in some ways, and I think that becomes
Speaker 1: a natural South African team. I mean there's that. You
Speaker 1: can already see how it's getting organized, and I think
Speaker 1: that will that will drive interest a little bit more
Speaker 1: because uh, you know, there's there's tons of fans out there.
Speaker 1: They've they've been cheering for Mark Leashman and Cal Smith
Speaker 1: forever and I think they'll they'll probably be okay transfer
Speaker 1: in their allegiance more than they would if it was
Speaker 1: just an individualistic kind of pursuit. I mean, that would
Speaker 1: both help pach O, that wouldn't I if if the
Speaker 1: two of Mike and find us and then Live creates
Speaker 1: a different product to what I mean. They have a
Speaker 1: great tour season and then they go across to their
Speaker 1: team and it's like, well, we're excited because he had
Speaker 1: such a great season, Like it's got going to be
Speaker 1: in our team this year and stuff. I think Trade
Speaker 1: says they've gotta work together because they're not going anywhere.
Speaker 1: They're going anywhere. They're not going anywhere, and why why
Speaker 1: not take advantage? I mean, there's there's a there's advantages
Speaker 1: for both sides to sort of embrace the other side. Jeff,
Speaker 1: when you speak of that kind of scenario, do you
Speaker 1: envision of thirty weeks of pg A tour and then
Speaker 1: fifteen weeks of live or UM with the two intermingled,
Speaker 1: or have one rent and then go to the other tour.
Speaker 1: How would that play out in your mind? I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's for smarter people than me. Um, who's smarter than you?
Speaker 1: Come on? I don't know, Um, I just know there's
Speaker 1: room for both. I know forty weeks a year of
Speaker 1: sending me to a whole stroke players boring, Um, like
Speaker 1: it's just too much. The ratings are all full, No
Speaker 1: one really, I mean the tournament doesn't get interesting if
Speaker 1: it does get interesting until about an hour ago. Um,
Speaker 1: there's rude. I don't know how it fits into the
Speaker 1: landscape that may just need to stay where they are.
Speaker 1: I think that that's sort of from a US sense,
Speaker 1: playing outside of football season makes the most sense, um.
Speaker 1: And then I think the live the live sort of
Speaker 1: the team concept would be better if it was all
Speaker 1: back to back to back or all in one point
Speaker 1: of the year. I would think, Um, I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'd love to see you the BG to have played
Speaker 1: January too, the start of football at the end of
Speaker 1: August or something, and then everybody I just have had it,
Speaker 1: just come up with stuff that's fun, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. Used to start a couple and then end
Speaker 1: in in September, and then we had the silly season, right,
Speaker 1: That's the way it used to be. And I think
Speaker 1: they're going back to that a little bit. They're still
Speaker 1: gonna be those crossover uh PG twour starter events for
Speaker 1: ack of a better term, in the fall, but I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna see that return to the calendar year season.
Speaker 1: I never understood the crossover season anyway. I was trying
Speaker 1: to figure out why they thought that was a good idea.
Speaker 1: The wraparound sometimes the reach around, but that's a different
Speaker 1: that's a different dynamic really, So that's a different podcastcast.
Speaker 1: So before we let we let you go trade, give
Speaker 1: give us a couple of your favorite NFL stories. Obviously,
Speaker 1: there's there's so many football fans for a listening here
Speaker 1: that they'd love to ask you, you know, the proverbial,
Speaker 1: Oh you're the bar they wander up to trade. Tell
Speaker 1: us what great NFL story from from the from your
Speaker 1: years on on the beat, Any favorite ones? Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a million of them. I mean, like I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of the when I put you on the spot here. No,
Speaker 1: it's all it's good. I think the one I can
Speaker 1: share not get myself in trouble. You can share that
Speaker 1: one lack of better term, you know, Like there's a
Speaker 1: there's a million different things that go on. Like like,
Speaker 1: for example, one of the reasons I started the Half
Speaker 1: Forgotten History podcast is because of what we're talking about
Speaker 1: here right, Like there's a million stories that we talk about,
Speaker 1: whether we were at a Super Bowl week together or
Speaker 1: just in the green room that never made it on
Speaker 1: the air. And like for for the Temple, I'll give
Speaker 1: you there some Super Bowl forty one, Peyton Manning finally
Speaker 1: beats Tom Brady in the a f C Championship Game
Speaker 1: and he knows his legacy is never going to be
Speaker 1: complete until he wins a Super Bowl. So this is
Speaker 1: pre married Peyton Mary. He's just he's he's football. He's
Speaker 1: all football, all the time. So the Cults are finally
Speaker 1: going to their first Super Bowl into the Peyton Manning era,
Speaker 1: and they have a big team meeting before they head
Speaker 1: down from Indianapolis to Miami for the week. And you know,
Speaker 1: everybody's there. The players are there, the families are there,
Speaker 1: the kids are there, everybody's it's a big communal thing.
Speaker 1: And Peyton gets up there in front of everybody, in
Speaker 1: front of the players, their wives, their children, says, look,
Speaker 1: this is a freaking business trip. I don't want to
Speaker 1: have any kids running around of the hall. We go.
Speaker 1: We're gonna win the damn game. I'm gonna be distracted
Speaker 1: by anything. And Jeff Saturday, who is his center and
Speaker 1: is his best friend on the team, his wife is
Speaker 1: holding his hand and crushing his hand as he's listening
Speaker 1: to Peyton say all this stuff, and Jeff's eyes get
Speaker 1: like this big and he's like, dude, what are you doing.
Speaker 1: So after that whole meeting, Jeff went up to Peyton
Speaker 1: and said, you need to chill the f out or
Speaker 1: we're going to kill you. He almost he almost had
Speaker 1: a mutiny on his hands from his own teammates because
Speaker 1: it was so intensible what had to happen it didn't
Speaker 1: have to happen at the Super Bowl. It's like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to kids on my floor and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be stragged. Don't want to hear you that. Of course,
Speaker 1: now he's, you know, with the Father of the Year.
Speaker 1: He's going to all his kids flag football games and
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. But it was no part
Speaker 1: of his background whatsoever. They had to take him off
Speaker 1: the ledge before they got down there, and they finally
Speaker 1: won the game seventeen. He was the m v P
Speaker 1: in Peyton's legacy was secure, but he almost lost the
Speaker 1: team before the even got to Miami. I love that.
Speaker 1: Actually have a funny painting story when when he went
Speaker 1: to the Broncos I was sent out by Sports Illustrated
Speaker 1: to write a story about it for his first game.
Speaker 1: It turned out to be a cover story, and the
Speaker 1: poor you know, Broncos PR guy was overwhelmed by Roatrick. Yes, Patrick,
Speaker 1: you're right. He said to me, you're not gonna get
Speaker 1: any time with Peyton. I'm telling you right now, he's
Speaker 1: not doing anyone on ones. It's a crazy week. I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: I understand. So I was just kind of hanging out
Speaker 1: and partaking in the scrums, but on one of them.
Speaker 1: And I almost never wear logos on my clothes up
Speaker 1: kind of anti logo. But uh, I had a Pebble
Speaker 1: Beach pullover and he looked at it and he said, uh,
Speaker 1: you've ever played Pebble Beach. I said yeah, I worked
Speaker 1: there for three summers actually, and he's like, do you
Speaker 1: know so? And so he said, you know r J Harper.
Speaker 1: I said yeah, he was the guy wh hired me.
Speaker 1: He was the head bro. And we had we had
Speaker 1: this little moment and then so after the game, Um,
Speaker 1: I just waited it out and he was getting hustled
Speaker 1: out of there and he's like, hey, Pebble. I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: can ask you all good questions? And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course. And we student We talked for like seven minutes,
Speaker 1: which is a long time really, and and yeah, poor Patrick,
Speaker 1: I mean he was given me the stink guy the
Speaker 1: entire time, Like I've rarely had daggers thrown at me
Speaker 1: that way. And but those seven minutes made my whole story,
Speaker 1: and it was all because of you know, the Pebble
Speaker 1: Beach conct Peyton. He's got buddies out here. I think
Speaker 1: he might be one of the investors of the company,
Speaker 1: certainly an investor in Sweden's Cove, like he loves golf. So,
Speaker 1: as we were saying at the top, it is a
Speaker 1: universal language. And that was like a crucial, little little
Speaker 1: uh exchange by any means necessary, Alan, by any means,
Speaker 1: And it was honestly an accident. Did you ever try
Speaker 1: the technic again? Do you ever put the pebble beach
Speaker 1: thing on the morning on nay talking today, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put yeah, And it did take me any of our tigers. Strangely,
Speaker 1: this isn't gonna top your painting story, but it's in
Speaker 1: the It's in the same vein. Um I was writing
Speaker 1: about Nicholas and uh and Nicholas was playing in the jamboree,
Speaker 1: the remember event at at Augusta, and his partner was
Speaker 1: a new member, Peyton Manning. And uh so then you
Speaker 1: know Payton's And then as you said, Peyton's investor in
Speaker 1: Sweden's Cove. So I mentioned Peyton Manning. So Payton Manning
Speaker 1: has worked in my stories various times. And uh so,
Speaker 1: Paytons he has made Augusta. And you know because one
Speaker 1: of these he says, I've noticed every time you you
Speaker 1: write my name it goes like this. Peyton Manning Comma
Speaker 1: a member of Augustina National. Comma. He says, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make you a deal. I'm going to give you an
Speaker 1: interview whenever you want, if you agree to Sometimes not right,
Speaker 1: Peyton Manning Comma, a member of Augustin National. And I
Speaker 1: don't consider I don't consider this story of violation of
Speaker 1: the terms of the deal because it's verbal and not really.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's cool that he's reading the stories like
Speaker 1: you gotta love that because he's a great guy. No,
Speaker 1: he really is. And uh yeah, he loves the game.
Speaker 1: He loves the game. Some of you might be listening
Speaker 1: to this podcast. There's our colleague matched It Did It
Speaker 1: Didn't a really fun two part podcast about the mother
Speaker 1: of all of golf buddies trips around the Open Championship
Speaker 1: at St. Andrews that Peyton and his brothers are part of.
Speaker 1: And it's a great listen. I would encourage you to
Speaker 1: check it out. It'll give you a lot insight into
Speaker 1: Peyton and his whole crew and um but anyway that
Speaker 1: what else do you have trade? Give us one more
Speaker 1: and then you're out of here. Oh you put me
Speaker 1: on the spot. Um, I know what you like? Pressure,
Speaker 1: I do, I do? I do? Uh kind of think? Um,
Speaker 1: all right, like this is sort of off the beaten path.
Speaker 1: But it's Super Bowl forty two. The Patriots are trying
Speaker 1: to beat the trying to you know, trying to pull
Speaker 1: off the perfect season. They end up losing to the Giants. Well,
Speaker 1: if you do postgame in a Super Bowl, like halfway
Speaker 1: through the fourth quarter, and I was doing postgame that year,
Speaker 1: they heard you all down to go down on the field,
Speaker 1: you know, in one wave at a time altogether, but
Speaker 1: you can't watch the game. So I am now traveling
Speaker 1: to go watch the end of the game to find
Speaker 1: out what happens. And I can't see the game. So
Speaker 1: I called my friend Mark Shlaira who I still work
Speaker 1: with on a lot of platforms. Now. I said, Mark,
Speaker 1: you've gotta walk me through what's happening in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: This is the drive or you know, Eli leads into
Speaker 1: the game winning touchdown with like thirty seven seconds to play.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, what's happening? Well, okay, uh, Giants had
Speaker 1: the ball and it looks like you're in a three
Speaker 1: man over protection schame. I'm like, Mark, because Mark's former
Speaker 1: offensive was like, shut up, I don't want to tell
Speaker 1: about the blocking scheme. Look at the ball, follow the
Speaker 1: ball and tell me what happens to go. Okay, guy
Speaker 1: Eli drops back, almost get sacked, completion over the middle,
Speaker 1: first down. Great. And then I'm like Mark inside the stadium.
Speaker 1: Now I can see everything. It's great. So I I
Speaker 1: see Plexico Burrows catch the game when a touchdown. Bass
Speaker 1: excuse me? So I go and Beline to run talk
Speaker 1: to him. And I realized I'm the only guy around
Speaker 1: Plexico Burrows and there's a million people, Yeah, around this
Speaker 1: guy David Tyree They're like, lose my voice here, David Tyrese,
Speaker 1: a special teams player, Like why are you talking to him?
Speaker 1: The play where Mark said Eli runs around voice a
Speaker 1: sack that was the helmet catch and he never said
Speaker 1: he never said he caught it with his helm. He's
Speaker 1: the first down. Like, dude, you're the worst analyst ever,
Speaker 1: Like you're really good at watching the game, but don't
Speaker 1: ever ever do play by play because you just screwed
Speaker 1: me out of the biggest interview I ever could have
Speaker 1: needed for Plexica. I don't think that interview ever saw air.
Speaker 1: Never I was the only one. All Why am I
Speaker 1: the only one talking to the guy that got the
Speaker 1: touchdown to beat the Patriots. There's a million guys around
Speaker 1: that scrub David Tyree. That's awesome. I love it well, Tredy,
Speaker 1: thank you for doing this. It's absolute pleasure. Yeah, Worries man,
Speaker 1: I love to Uh. It's great to connect with like
Speaker 1: the hardcore golf fan. It's it's a it's a tremendous perspective.
Speaker 1: I could. I couldn't quit the game if I tried,
Speaker 1: and I tried. I think we all have at some point,
Speaker 1: probably not Michael, but me and me and Jeff perhaps. Um,
Speaker 1: every day I quit and then every day you start over.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. All right, Well, um, hit the little red
Speaker 1: button there, Trey. We're gonna we're gonna do a little
Speaker 1: Monday morning quarterbacking on your on your performance. So that's
Speaker 1: something you can look forward to at the end of
Speaker 1: the podcast. Oh yeah, I'll really look forward to that.
Speaker 1: I just want you to know. I'll be really excited
Speaker 1: about that. I can't wait. All right, guys, it was,
Speaker 1: it was. It was great fun. Thank you, Take it easy, Jeff.
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure man. Good to see man. You know
Speaker 1: as you were saying Michael's it's amazing how carefully some
Speaker 1: of the quote unquote fans followed the sport that Scotti
Speaker 1: show my name was freaky. Yeah, but his his insights
Speaker 1: are really really good. He knows golf and he knows sport. Jeff,
Speaker 1: did you follow NFL football closely in your American years? Yeah?
Speaker 1: When I arrived, I didn't get it, and then uh,
Speaker 1: it just you can't avoid it. I've worked out pretty
Speaker 1: early on if I want to talk to any of
Speaker 1: my peers between about the first of August and February,
Speaker 1: better better than how to talk about football, and I'm
Speaker 1: let's talk about anything else. Um. So I started watching it.
Speaker 1: I loved it. I mean, yeah, I ended up. I mean,
Speaker 1: college pros the whole thing. Loved it. Played with a
Speaker 1: bunch of football is lucky enough. I mean, Larry Fitzgerald
Speaker 1: might be the most enthusiastic golfer in America. Um, good,
Speaker 1: great scotstal Phoenix guy. He was always around. As I said,
Speaker 1: I used to play with d A a lot, Um
Speaker 1: play with Romo a bit. I mean they're fantastic, just
Speaker 1: just it's just outrageous athletes. I mean, we talk about
Speaker 1: some athletes and those football is are just done a
Speaker 1: whole another stratosphere. They're not built normal and just to
Speaker 1: be around guys like that, I think it's really cool.
Speaker 1: Um so talented. I mean most people take a lifetime
Speaker 1: to learn how to hit what they're working out in
Speaker 1: about a week, you know. Um pretty cool. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's such a perfect isn't it a perfect TV sport?
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about golf and I said, it's incredible.
Speaker 1: In the Last Sunday the Masters are write a carp
Speaker 1: or there's some moments in normal tournaments that are compelling viewing.
Speaker 1: But I mean an NFL game has you captured from
Speaker 1: the first minute till the end, and it gives you
Speaker 1: plenty of time to go to the toilet, plenty of
Speaker 1: time to get to be get a snack. It's just
Speaker 1: like the perfect TV product, right, I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: so well put together. Um, you can't help but like it.
Speaker 1: I think if you watch a few games, you're just
Speaker 1: gonna help. But like it because it's just such a
Speaker 1: good that's a good product. Well that there's that George
Speaker 1: Will line about football says it combines two of the
Speaker 1: worst elements of American life violence followed by committee meetings.
Speaker 1: But you know, the the huddles in between the plays,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit. It's a kid to me to
Speaker 1: like walking between shots, right, There's so there's this little
Speaker 1: build up, you know, it's these thirty second build ups
Speaker 1: between every play, and it's just enough time to think
Speaker 1: about what might happen, and the announcers are they're speculating,
Speaker 1: and you're getting replays and if it was longer, it
Speaker 1: would be too long, and if it's shorter, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: be the same anticipation. So somehow it works even though
Speaker 1: there's essence a lot of dead time. But that's just
Speaker 1: part of the viewing experience, I guess. But you said
Speaker 1: you said you had to you had to get into football.
Speaker 1: But what about hunting and fishing that what would that
Speaker 1: have provided plenty of fodder for your tour conversations? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I I used to fish a little bit
Speaker 1: growing up in Melbourne, but fishing, I mean I locked fishing.
Speaker 1: Whenever it's presented to me, I have a good time,
Speaker 1: but it's usually about who you're with and what's in
Speaker 1: the cooler. I think more often, Um, hunting, No, that's
Speaker 1: not my deal. I mean, um, it's less. I think
Speaker 1: it's less. Hunting and fishing used to be. There's a
Speaker 1: sort of a section of the locker room on tour
Speaker 1: that's hunters and fishes. But football is universal, you know,
Speaker 1: um football and golfing universal. So yeah, fishing a little
Speaker 1: bit now, hunting certainly football. Oh that was good. That's
Speaker 1: strong golf course architecture conversations. Yeah, I'm sure that's true, Jeff.
Speaker 1: At web point and you're developing sophistication, did you start
Speaker 1: calling Colt Harry? It's always been Harry Carlton. No, I
Speaker 1: didn't know that. Henry s Cole was how I know,
Speaker 1: And um, that's cool. One of my great friends, Kevin Price,
Speaker 1: we've been we've been thinking about in an England trip
Speaker 1: for a long time and it's incredible how many, how
Speaker 1: many great courses are in that heath land around London
Speaker 1: and then get down to the coast. I mean, everyone
Speaker 1: talks about Scotland and Ireland, but pound for Pouder might
Speaker 1: be more great golf courses in England than either of
Speaker 1: the other two. Jeff, if you ever played a Royal
Speaker 1: sports I've played roles sing ports. Yeah, I mean England
Speaker 1: is great. Um the links I think. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you're going to just play pure coastal courses, you probably
Speaker 1: go to Scotland, um. But the heath land courses in
Speaker 1: the inland courses in England might be some of the best.
Speaker 1: Um fantastic. I mean the coaster ones are great too,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. I mean sing Ports is great,
Speaker 1: Bird is great. I mean this goes on in that
Speaker 1: area down there, singing Ports. You've got Rye and Hastings
Speaker 1: and um st George's fantastic little pockets um of golf.
Speaker 1: But I love that that sort of heathland golf, Surry
Speaker 1: West of London, Sunningdale, the Barkshires, Winley Forests and George's Hill.
Speaker 1: I mean these places are as good as golf. That
Speaker 1: there is pleasant and experience as golf can provide, just incredible.
Speaker 1: I love it all Right. Well, we're gonna bring this
Speaker 1: Need a Fourth to a close. Uh. It's always it's
Speaker 1: always good fun. You never know who's gonna wind up
Speaker 1: on this podcast. We will be um back at it again.
Speaker 1: Thanks as always for listening and more surprises. A wait,
Speaker 1: I'm Alan Schipnuk. That's Jeff Ogilvie and Michael Bamberger. This
Speaker 1: is need a fourth, This is the end. Thanks