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Speaker 1: Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have

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Speaker 1: been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for crimes,

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Speaker 1: even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it like

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Speaker 1: to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's it

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Speaker 1: like to be their ally, the one outside committed to

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Speaker 1: fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Bride Pacheco, and this

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Speaker 1: is wrongful conviction. When he was just twenty years old,

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Speaker 1: an act of violence would change James Soto's life forever

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Speaker 1: and the trajectory for the next four decades. At about

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Speaker 1: nine pm on August sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, shots rang

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Speaker 1: out in Chicago's Little Village neighborhood, killing two people and

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Speaker 1: injuring a third. Although eyewitnesses initially pointed to other suspects's,

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Speaker 1: police ultimately arrested a few members of the two six

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Speaker 1: Street gang, which controlled the territory, including James Soto. Despite

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Speaker 1: no physical evidence tying him to the crime and plenty

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Speaker 1: of defense witnesses, James was convicted of the shooting and

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Speaker 1: sentenced to life without parole. Soto and his cousin David

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Speaker 1: Ayala would spend forty two years in prison. The longest

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Speaker 1: served wrongful conviction sentences in Illinois history until they were

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Speaker 1: exonerated in December of twenty twenty three. James Soto is

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Speaker 1: joining me today with a man who's been a tremendous

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Speaker 1: support to him and shares much in common with James

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Speaker 1: as well. In addition to also having been wrongfully convicted

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Speaker 1: and exonerated. Robert Almodovar is not only a close friend

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Speaker 1: to James, but the two men were actually cellmates while

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Speaker 1: in prison. Both now share the same passion and for

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Speaker 1: raising awareness for criminal justice reform. We have so much

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Speaker 1: to cover. Thank you both for joining me, Jimmy and Robert, Well.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for hosting us and having us here.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So Just Jimmy to go back to the very beginning.

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Speaker 1: You know you're now in your sixties, but take me

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Speaker 1: back to the young man you were before all this

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Speaker 1: happened in nineteen eighty one. Where did you grow up

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Speaker 1: and what was your upbringing?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I grew up in the Pullman area,

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Speaker 2: which is on the far south side of Chicago on

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Speaker 2: ninety eighth in Avalon. I've learned later in life that

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Speaker 2: the neighborhoods that we grew up in in our formative

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Speaker 2: years really make us who we are. So I will

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Speaker 2: always be a Southsider from Chicago and the people in

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Speaker 2: Chicago because we're so segregated, We're very proud from whatever

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Speaker 2: section of the city that we come from. So but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I grew up there. I had a fondness for sports.

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Speaker 2: Baseball was my number one thing. I was on the

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Speaker 2: Avalon Cubs, which at a young age made me a

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Speaker 2: Cup fan and I am a Cup fan for life,

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Speaker 2: and I was so glad when they won the World Series.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately I was locked up when that happened, but I'll

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Speaker 2: take it. So the summer of my fourteenth birthday, we

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Speaker 2: moved to the Brighton Park area, which is on the

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Speaker 2: southwest side of Chicago, and I stayed there for most

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Speaker 2: of high school. Then in nineteen eighty one, my uncle

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Speaker 2: was murdered by gun violence in the Little Village area,

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Speaker 2: and that was my cousin and co defendant, David Yalla's father,

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Speaker 2: I'll Fonso, and they had her house in Westchester anyway,

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Speaker 2: in the western suburbs, and I wound up going to

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Speaker 2: live with David shortly thereafter. It was a very nice

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Speaker 2: suburban home, had a built in swimming pool. It had

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Speaker 2: a mini gym, a greenhouse, five bedrooms, two and a

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Speaker 2: half bats, basement, fully furnished. So you can imagine David

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Speaker 2: was eighteen and I was twenty. I wouldn't say young men.

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Speaker 2: We were more like late adolescents, teenagers more so. Living

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Speaker 2: in a nice house. And yeah, I mean Dave had

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Speaker 2: some money that his father left them. There was a

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Speaker 2: life insurance policy, so he didn't have to work at

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Speaker 2: the time. I was working at United Parcel Service as

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Speaker 2: a sorterer. But to say that we weren't enjoying ourselves

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Speaker 2: living pretty lavishly would be an understatement. So having all

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Speaker 2: that naturally made the Chicago Police Department CPD seeing us

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Speaker 2: driving you know, luxury fancy cars, Lincoln Cadillacs, those were

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Speaker 2: the cars of that time period. You know, Oh that's it.

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Speaker 1: So they made the assumption that they knew how you

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Speaker 1: were bankrolling all that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the assumption was that it was coming from, you know,

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Speaker 2: illicit drug sales, but that was not the truth. The

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Speaker 2: truth was were just some things that were left over

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Speaker 2: to David and I'm working. I actually was paying car notes,

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Speaker 2: so my car was being financed. So had they dug

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Speaker 2: a little deeper, they would have realized my car particularly

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Speaker 2: was not paid off.

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Speaker 1: Coming from the neighborhoods that you did. Was gang activity

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Speaker 1: very much on your radar on a daily basis throughout

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Speaker 1: high school?

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, it was not. It wasn't really until

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine when David's brother, Alfonso the third gets

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Speaker 2: killed by gun violence. It was very hard for me

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Speaker 2: because it was my brother, David's oldest brother Tyrone. Then

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Speaker 2: it's me and then Alfonso and then David, and we're

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Speaker 2: all one year apart. So I would spend a lot

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Speaker 2: of summers at David's house when they were living in

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Speaker 2: Little Village. And so that's how I wound up getting

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Speaker 2: involved in any gang was because my cousin had been killed.

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Speaker 2: You know, I took it pretty hard, and as a

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Speaker 2: young he was seven, so I would have been eighteen.

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Speaker 2: As a young eighteen year old to have to deal

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Speaker 2: with that, you know, there was no one that gave

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Speaker 2: me any therapy for the trauma I was dealing with,

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Speaker 2: and the loss of I consider more like a brother

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Speaker 2: than a cousin, and so to know that he was

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Speaker 2: killed in that way, I misguidingly wanted to be part

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Speaker 2: of the same thing that he was involved in to

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Speaker 2: seek some type of revenge. But it wasn't like I

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Speaker 2: was out looking for revenge. It was just a way

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Speaker 2: in his honor that I thought, I need to be

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Speaker 2: a part of this, I need to do something. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And there's also a huge social component of that too,

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Speaker 1: of course, it's belonging in friendship and camaraderie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But I would not define myself as a hardcore

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Speaker 2: gang member. I was what people would label as a

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Speaker 2: marginal gang member. I was on the fringes. I was

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Speaker 2: not someone because I'm working. I didn't have no time

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Speaker 2: to go hang out and do whatever.

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Speaker 1: So had you ever been on law enforcement radar before

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Speaker 1: the incident in the time leading up to it, had

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Speaker 1: you ever had trouble with the law?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I was arrested one time for what's called

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Speaker 2: a uu W unlawful use of a weapon. Some detectives

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Speaker 2: had pulled me over and found a gun, unregistered gun

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Speaker 2: in my car and charged me. But when it came

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Speaker 2: down to the problem cause of why they stopped me,

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Speaker 2: it was simply because I was in Lincoln Continental and

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Speaker 2: I was just I guess you would say profiled, and

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Speaker 2: my lawyer was able to get the case thrown out

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Speaker 2: pretty easily because of the illegal stop, and the judge

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Speaker 2: threw it out. So that was on my only criminal record.

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Speaker 2: I had no other runs with law enforcement when there

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Speaker 2: would be various shootings. Once they knew I was part

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Speaker 2: of a game, I was taken in several times and

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Speaker 2: questioned about it. I just, you know, said I want

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Speaker 2: a lawyer, and they pretty much left me alone.

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Speaker 1: And at the time, so you're employed for two years

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Speaker 1: at that point with you said, ups, what were your

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Speaker 1: thoughts or plans for the future?

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I had a girlfriend at the time.

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Speaker 2: I just learned, maybe two weeks before I was arrested

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Speaker 2: on this case, that she was pregnant. So in my mind,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, she's going to have a baby. When

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Speaker 2: I learned she was pregnant, my thought was, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to settle down. I'm going to have to get my

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Speaker 2: own place and start a little family.

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Speaker 1: So take me to the night of the incident. So

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Speaker 1: it was August sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, around nine pm

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Speaker 1: on the southwest side of Chicago. Where were you at

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 2: I was in Westchester. It was me my cousin, David,

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Speaker 2: his girlfriend, my girlfriend, and my oldest sister were two

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Speaker 2: of her kids were at the house, and my sister

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Speaker 2: had prepared a meal for us, and I remember that

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Speaker 2: I just got my two plates and I went up

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Speaker 2: to my bedroom with my girlfriend and we were watching

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Speaker 2: some movies on the VCR, so long ago. Those things

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Speaker 2: are now no longer in existence. And yeah, she left

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Speaker 2: later in the evening, at around ten o'clock. So they

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Speaker 2: had the story on the ten o'clock news about, you know,

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Speaker 2: two people being shot killed and one third one being

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Speaker 2: injured at an incident in Petrowski or a Keiler park.

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Speaker 1: So, for somebody who's not familiar with the geography, how

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Speaker 1: far were you physically away from where the shooting occurred.

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Speaker 2: I would say that was a distance of about thirty

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Speaker 2: miles at least.

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Speaker 1: So you're thirty miles away, and unfortunately, yes, three people

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Speaker 1: were shot too, fatally wounded, a sixteen year old Julie

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Speaker 1: Limas who was aspiring to be a police officer, and

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Speaker 1: an eighteen year old Hector Valeriano, who was on leave

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Speaker 1: from the US Marine Corps at the time. So it's

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Speaker 1: a tragic incident. But you're thirty miles away from it

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Speaker 1: at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my thought was, you know, that's a terrible thing

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Speaker 2: that happened in the neighborhood of the gang or organization

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Speaker 2: that we were part of. But I didn't give it

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Speaker 2: a second thought to think who might have had any

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Speaker 2: involvement in it. I figured, oh, they're going to get

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Speaker 2: somebody for this, But little that I know they would

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Speaker 2: eventually try to point the finger at me.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the investigation ends up focusing on gang rivalries,

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Speaker 1: and even though eyewitness accounts identified entirely different people, the

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Speaker 1: investigation then starts focusing on the two six gang that

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Speaker 1: you're affiliated with, but just on the fringe. When did

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Speaker 1: you find out that you were on the investigators radar?

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Speaker 2: To my knowledge, my name doesn't really come up until

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Speaker 2: the month of October. I believe that's when they finally

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Speaker 2: start saying, well, okay, because they thought they was involved.

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Speaker 2: They said, okay, well this other guy has to be

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Speaker 2: involved as well. But it was never really founded on,

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Speaker 2: like you said, on any eyewitness identifying me. It was

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Speaker 2: just they now said, okay, if David's involved, this other

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Speaker 2: guy got to be involved as well.

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Speaker 1: So they just bundled you with your cousin, and neither

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Speaker 1: of you were there, correct, So how were you arrested?

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Speaker 1: How did that go down? Where were you? Who were

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Speaker 1: you with?

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Speaker 2: So I got arrested on October fifteenth, once again, I

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Speaker 2: was in Westchester with my girlfriend, and ironically my sister

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Speaker 2: was there as well, the oldest sister that would be

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Speaker 2: later be my alibi. She was there. She made another

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Speaker 2: homemade meal, I remember it. It was spaghetti with homemade

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Speaker 2: meatballs and Italian sausage and garlic bread. And I was

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Speaker 2: just beginning my plate to take it upstairs with me

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Speaker 2: and my girl to share, when we hear the knock

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Speaker 2: on the door, boom boom, and then there's a pounding

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Speaker 2: on the back door, boom boom. I'm like, what's going on?

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Speaker 2: So we look out the window and we see all

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Speaker 2: these lights and policemen running up to the thing. We

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Speaker 2: open the door and they come in and cut us up.

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Speaker 2: They just said they had a warrant. They didn't say

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Speaker 2: it was an unrest warrant. They didn't say whether it

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Speaker 2: was a search warrant. Yeah, So they went about the

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Speaker 2: house searching it, obviously not coming up with anything, and

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Speaker 2: they took us into custody and when I get to

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Speaker 2: the police station is when I first learned that. They

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Speaker 2: tell me you're under arrest for two murders and a

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Speaker 2: temp murder and this is a capital of fence and

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Speaker 2: you better say something now if you want to save yourself.

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Speaker 1: Well, Jimmy, what was going through your mind. You must

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Speaker 1: have thought, all right, stupid mistake, It's going to be corrected.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what's going through my mind. I'm like, this

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Speaker 2: can't be right, you know. Fortunately, there was an attorney

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Speaker 2: that was at the police station who would later become

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Speaker 2: my trial attorney, and he came and spoke with me

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Speaker 2: and said, they said they have witnesses, and he said,

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Speaker 2: I don't have any of the paperwork. He asked me,

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Speaker 2: point blank, did you have anything to do with it?

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Speaker 2: Of course I told him no, and he's like, well,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about it. If you didn't have nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with it, it'll work out. Just don't say anything. And

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Speaker 2: that was it. So in my mind, I'm thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's a mistake, and you know, they could be cleared

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Speaker 2: up fairly soon and I'll be out. But that wasn't

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Speaker 2: the case.

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Speaker 1: From that moment on, you're held until your trial.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was held with no bond in the Cook

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Speaker 2: County Jail. I was there for probably a year before

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Speaker 2: I went to trial. I went to September of nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty two to trial. But leading up to it, I

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Speaker 2: would eventually find out some pieces of like that they

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Speaker 2: only had one witness who would be best termed an

240
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Speaker 2: accomplished witness. He was a young teenager as well, and

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Speaker 2: he made statement that David and I were supposedly conspiring

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Speaker 2: prior to the shooting with a group of other individuals

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Speaker 2: to attack a rival group. That David gets a phone

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Speaker 2: call and David then provides the key to a custom

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Speaker 2: blue van and gives us weapons, and we go out

246
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Speaker 2: to the park and me and another co defendant supposedly

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Speaker 2: walk down the gangway and shoot at the people. And

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Speaker 2: you know there was three victims as a result.

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Speaker 1: But that seems like a very convenient theory, Well it.

250
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Speaker 2: Was for them. Yeah, I didn't know that they had

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Speaker 2: rounded up Again to the Colaster trial, that they rounded

252
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Speaker 2: up twenty five people with the rest warrants, and that

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Speaker 2: out of the twenty five, at least maybe ten or

254
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Speaker 2: maybe twelve of them made statements which collaborated in some

255
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Speaker 2: sense what this individual was saying. But you have to

256
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Speaker 2: bear in mind that there was probably only out of

257
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Speaker 2: the twenty five people, maybe five were over the age

258
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Speaker 2: of seventeen. Every somebody else was fifteen and sixteen year olds.

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Speaker 2: And I was really mad that, you know, these individuals

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Speaker 2: who were supposed to be part of a group that

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Speaker 2: I was involved in, would break down and make this

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Speaker 2: false narrative. And so my reaction was as a young

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Speaker 2: man that these guys are punks, they're chumps, they're snitches.

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Speaker 2: But as I became more mature and I was doing

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Speaker 2: my studies, I realized that they were just as much

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Speaker 2: victims and or even more so than anyone else other

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Speaker 2: than those that lost their lives and the other that

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Speaker 2: got shot. Because they were held for three days. Imagine

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Speaker 2: you a fifteen year old held three days in custody.

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Speaker 2: Some of them urinated on themselves, being choked, getting nothing

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Speaker 2: to eat, denied water, I mean, the sleep deprivation. I

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Speaker 2: had to look at it, and putting myself in their shoes,

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Speaker 2: I probably would have broke down and said anything they

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Speaker 2: wanted me to say at that point. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: the police officers, law enforcement have techniques that they could

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Speaker 2: make a grown man who was innocent telling himself so

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Speaker 2: let alone at juveniles. So that started to make sense

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Speaker 2: to me as in the following years after my conviction,

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Speaker 2: what really was going on?

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Speaker 1: I'm trying just to get my mindset wrapped around your

281
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Speaker 1: living your life, have a steady job, have a steady girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: have a baby on the way. You're twenty years old

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Speaker 1: and your life is just interrupted, taken away from you.

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Speaker 1: What was that year like for you being held in

285
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Speaker 1: the Cook County jail.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was probably one of the worst and

287
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 2: hardest years of my life because my girlfriend would eventually

288
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 2: lose the baby. She had a miscarriage. It was due

289
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Speaker 2: to squarely to stress. She wasn't eating right because she's

290
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Speaker 2: worried about me. I'm locked up. My car gets repossessed.

291
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Speaker 2: You know, expensive rims on my car. I had a

292
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Speaker 2: nice sound system. When they repossess it, it's not like

293
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 2: they're going to give it back. They take all that

294
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Speaker 2: with it. So I lost that. I was upset with that.

295
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Speaker 1: But are you in contact at all with your cousin

296
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Speaker 1: David at this point? Is he being held at the

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Speaker 1: same facility.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with him for the most part. For I

299
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,399
Speaker 2: would say at least half of that time or maybe

300
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 2: seven months we were held together. There was periods where

301
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 2: we would be split up. You know, that's how the

302
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 2: jail is. Oftentimes you're moving to another section of the

303
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,480
Speaker 2: jail and they don't really give you any reasons why.

304
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Speaker 2: It's just it's disruptive. The jail is not nice. It's

305
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 2: super violent, and you're going to get in fights. It's

306
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,440
Speaker 2: just part of what's going on there. And we're packed

307
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 2: in there. There was overcrowding problem. It was people sleeping

308
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Speaker 2: on the floor in the dayroom. So you got this

309
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Speaker 2: group of people and you don't have so much phone times.

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Speaker 2: It was always fights over the phone if nothing else.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that in TV, what show you're gonna watch,

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Speaker 2: what channel you're gonna watch on TV? I would always

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Speaker 2: wind up be in a fight.

314
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Speaker 1: So in terms of you and David, your mindset heading

315
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Speaker 1: into that trial, how would you categorize the trial in general?

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Speaker 1: And were you at all confident?

317
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Speaker 2: I didn't know much about the law, the legal system,

318
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Speaker 2: its process, and so my attorney puts on an alibi defense,

319
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Speaker 2: and I told you, the only evidence that really comes

320
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 2: up that indicates either David or I is this. So

321
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 2: called accomplice witness, and he had implicated two people in

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Speaker 2: this conspiracy as being part of this meeting that led

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Speaker 2: up to the shooting. One was in the hospital in

324
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Speaker 2: a coma told state after being hit by a car.

325
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Speaker 2: So he's in Mother Cabringing Hospital on the West Side

326
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Speaker 2: in a coma. Mind you, this guy testifies before the

327
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Speaker 2: grand jury that he's evolved with the case. The second

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Speaker 2: individual was in juvenile custody and he had to plicase

329
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Speaker 2: him as well. So this individual locked up ten days

330
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Speaker 2: before this crime, maybe even longer. And I'm thinking, Okay,

331
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Speaker 2: we're showing that he clearly lied before the grand jury.

332
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Speaker 2: And there's another fact. The accomplished witness says that David

333
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,199
Speaker 2: owned a blue Custom van. No Blue Custom band was

334
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 2: ever recovered. They never showed David owned one. Now one

335
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 2: person says he owns this band, that he ever had

336
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 2: a van, There's no weapons ever recovered. And then they

337
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 2: said there's a phone call that happens from home running

338
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 2: pizza to David's house in Westchester slightly probably a half

339
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 2: hour before the shooting happens, supposedly from two young women

340
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 2: who say that they alert David that there's a rival

341
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,879
Speaker 2: group in there. Well day subpoena the Illinois Bell telephone records,

342
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 2: which showed no phone call was made from Home Run

343
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 2: in that entire night to David's house. So again, these

344
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 2: things I'm hearing during trial, and I'm thinking, oh, well,

345
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Speaker 2: there's no way they're going to find me guilty if

346
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Speaker 2: they're hearing that. And so I'm thinking in my mind,

347
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 2: as my lawyer told me, you're going to beat this case.

348
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 2: You're going home whenever the jury comes back. There's no

349
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 2: way they're going to find you guilty. So I'm thinking, yeah,

350
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Speaker 2: I'm going home.

351
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 1: Because you have multiple witnesses who attest your alibi and

352
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: innocence being told by your defense that you should be confident.

353
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: Take me to the moment that the jury announces their verdict.

354
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 2: It was maybe close to nine and a half hours

355
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 2: on a period of two days, the first evening into

356
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 2: the next day that the jury is deliberating, and they

357
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 2: send a note down and tell the judge that they're

358
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: struggling to come up with a verdict and they think

359
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: that they might be a hung jury because they cannot

360
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 2: come to a unanimous decision on this case. And so

361
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 2: my lawyer said, well, that's a good thing. That means

362
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,639
Speaker 2: they're struggling. Well, the judge just tells the jury go back.

363
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 2: He wouldn't accept them, saying that they were hung. About

364
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 2: a half hour later, they come in guilty of all charges.

365
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 2: So when I hear that verdict, when you know you

366
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 2: got to stand up to hear it, the reaction was

367
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 2: you could hear of some gasp. The state's attorneys were jubilant.

368
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: They were high five in each other, and I'm looking

369
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: at them. Then I turn around to look at my

370
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 2: family and just see them all breaking down in tears.

371
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: To see my father, who was the rock, the foundation

372
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: of our family, broken down crying. My sister's crying, my

373
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 2: girlfriend crying, It made me furious. I looked at my attorney.

374
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: I said, I thought you said we're going to beat this.

375
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 2: What happened? I looked at the judge, I looked at

376
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: the jury, looked them in the eye, and I'm like,

377
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 2: how could this happen? How could you come up with

378
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: a guilty verdict based on such flimsy evidence. So when

379
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 2: I do talk to my lawyer once again in the bullpen,

380
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: he comes to see me. He's seeing the how upset

381
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: I was, and he was like, no, you got to

382
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 2: hang in there. You gotta be strong. I said, it's

383
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 2: easy for you to say, and I said, so, what

384
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 2: are we looking at? And he's telling me that, well, unfortunately,

385
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: the laws in Illinois are that if you're found guilt

386
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,679
Speaker 2: you have two or more murders, you got to mandatorily

387
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 2: get natural life. And I'm like, so what does that mean.

388
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: He's like, it means what it means. And I'm like really,

389
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: and he said, no, don't worry, We're going to go

390
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: on appeal. We're going to do the appeal. There's a

391
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: lot of things they're done wrong.

392
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: So months turned to years turned to decades. What was

393
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: the biggest hurdle for you transitioning to life in prison.

394
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: The most difficult thing is being away from family, hearing

395
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 2: the family milestones, graduations, baptisms, communions, weddings. I wasn't there

396
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: to see people have their you know, the birth of

397
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: a child that's such a celebration, and so many families

398
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 2: when a new life comes in there and I'm not there,

399
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: it was difficult for me to deal with. And then

400
00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: of course trying to maintain a relationship that certainly very hard.

401
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: They got to come visit, you got to make phone calls,

402
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: et cetera, and so forth.

403
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: Well, there are so many layers to that onion, and

404
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: also in terms of you know, you're missing those events

405
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: with your family, but your family is missing them with you.

406
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I would always want to put on

407
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: the strong front. I'm okay, don't worry about me, you know.

408
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 2: And as I started studying the law, I was able

409
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: to articulate to them some of the things that were wrong. Hey,

410
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: we listen, my attorney didn't do this, or the prosecution

411
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: did this. And so when I was able to do that,

412
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: I guess they would see the hope emanating from me,

413
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 2: and so it would make them feel a little bit

414
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: more at ease. But there was times it wasn't easy.

415
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: Prisons in the eighties and early nineties was in Illinois

416
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 2: were particularly violent. State Bill was very violent. I mean

417
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: murders occurring there. There was a lot of things that,

418
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of stabbings, a lot of assaults.

419
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: That's a question that I have for you because even

420
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: though your affiliation with a gang in ended up getting

421
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: you on the radar of the police in a way,

422
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: did that affiliation protect you at all? Once you were

423
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: in the inside.

424
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had to be. I was definitely affiliated with

425
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: the gangs in there. But the downside of that is

426
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: that when other individuals would do, you know, do things like,

427
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: for example, somebody would gamble and then not be able

428
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: to pay. Now this individual is going to get into

429
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: a fighter. I have problems with another group, another person

430
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 2: from another group, which then involves everybody, and now here

431
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: it is we're fighting in there over somebody who should

432
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 2: have never been gambling because he didn't have the money

433
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: to pay in the first place. At some point in

434
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: the mid nineties, I said, this isn't getting me anywhere.

435
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: You know, I was smart enough to know that this

436
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 2: behavior is viewed as a negative, and I didn't want

437
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: to be in that light. And so I'm no longer.

438
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: I don't want to be a part of it, no

439
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 2: long no more. I'm sure people looked at me like

440
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 2: he's flaking out, he's he can't handle it, But I

441
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: didn't care. I think that was one of the best

442
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: choices in my life. Life. That happened around ninety six.

443
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean, well.

444
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: You know what, it's maturity too, But you were doing

445
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: what you needed to do to survive through your younger twenties.

446
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: How long did you and your girlfriends stay together?

447
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 2: We were probably together for the first ten years of

448
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: my incarceration, and in retrospect, I look at it. We're

449
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: arguing about really simple things like how come you to

450
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: pick up my phone call? Where were you at? You know,

451
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: Accusations that she might be cheating on me and those

452
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 2: type of things eventually deteriorated us and she wound up

453
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 2: having a relationship with someone else. But she would period

454
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: I'm in and out of my life over my incarceration,

455
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,239
Speaker 2: and in the end for the last like you know,

456
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: seven years, I would say she was there for me.

457
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, it makes it easier to have a love

458
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: interest in prison, knowing that somebody cares about you. I

459
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: never really doubted the fact that she didn't have feelings

460
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: for me or love me.

461
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: It's hard to maintain a relationship exactly.

462
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 2: The physical absence is is hard.

463
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, you began spending a chunk of your

464
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: time in the law library. Well.

465
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: As I became more and more proficient in the tenants

466
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: and the operation of the law procedures, etc. I began

467
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: to have success winning particularly at first, just sensed reductions

468
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 2: for a lot of individuals, and eventually I won some

469
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: new trials. I began to get more new trials, more

470
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 2: sentence reductions, and so I was also doing civil complaints.

471
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 2: Guys would eventually went on that.

472
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: So you became what they call a jail house lawyer.

473
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never did particularly like that term. I like

474
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: to call myself a prisoner advocate, but yeah, that's definitely

475
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: what that was termed.

476
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: But I think that's so admirable. Jimmy, what was the

477
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: turning point for you? Because I can't imagine the anger

478
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: and the frustration your life's been taken away from you

479
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: in decades. At this point, where did you turn that

480
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: into I'm going to figure out enough to help not

481
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: only myself, but to help other people.

482
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: My thought process was this that if I could be

483
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: proficient or do adequate work for other individuals, it would

484
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: just make me a better litigator and I could hone

485
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 2: my skills that way work it through others. Again, looking back,

486
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: my early attempts was by trial and error, and I'm

487
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 2: a bit of a perfectionist, I will admit that, and

488
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 2: so I said I could do this, but I always

489
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: kept education at the forefront. I was always involved in

490
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: some type of classes or some type of program, and

491
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: a lot of it. Sometimes with self taught. I would

492
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: just bother to use the materials there with the law library.

493
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: So now we're getting to the point where you crossed

494
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: paths with our other wonderful esteemed guest, Robert. We've talked

495
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: about this. I'm not going to dive too heavily into

496
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: the specifics, but in a nutshell, you and a co

497
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: defendant were convicted in nineteen ninety five of a double

498
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: homicide the year before, and at the time you were

499
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: a young father, working long hours and attending night school,

500
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: and when you were arrested you had no previous convictions.

501
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: You were twenty when you were convicted, which is something

502
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: that you two gentlemen share in common. And the case

503
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: against you rested on eyewitness reports obtained by a rather

504
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: notorious now retired Chicago police detective named Rinaldo Guervera. He's

505
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: since come under fire over allegations he coerced witnesses and

506
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: framed innocent people in dozens of other investigations. But you

507
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: two are in prison. You're both wrongfully convicted. Take me

508
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: to the first moment your paths crossed, and Robert, why

509
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: don't you tell me about meeting mister Soto for the

510
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: first time.

511
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 3: Jimmy Soto. I heard of him. You know, his name

512
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: is under like a legend in prison. Basically everybody know

513
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: who he was. Everybody knows all the work he did

514
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: and how he helped a lot of people. So I

515
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 3: knew of him before I ever met him. So he

516
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: was in state Ville, he didn't getting tramped to Minar.

517
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: When he got to Thenar, you know, believe or not,

518
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: everybody was like static because this guy who helped a

519
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: lot of people is now in Minar. So everybody wanted

520
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 3: to reach out to him, contact him some type of

521
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 3: way to get his assistance something, because he a type

522
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: of person. You know, his reputation receives him as far

523
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: as he's an up, upstanding guy.

524
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: So you arrived at Minard with a fan club in place.

525
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: Yes he did. He's really shy about that, I guess,

526
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: but this is who he is, This is reputation.

527
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: Then do you remember the first time you met him.

528
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: Yes, I was in the same set house as he

529
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: was South Flowers in Menar. He was on two, I

530
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: was on four, and I think his seat he was

531
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: in the going home or something.

532
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: Like that, Yeah he got paro.

533
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah he got parole. And he was looking for a

534
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: lly and one of the gadded workers asked me, would

535
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 3: you like to be Jimmy Soler SELLI. I was like, hell, yeah,

536
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: why wouldn't that be? So they end up moving me

537
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: to his cell at the time he was in the yard.

538
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna sell by myself. I got my property

539
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 3: in there, I got situated, and when he came in

540
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: to cell, I went to induce myself. My name is

541
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: you know, Berta Amovar. He like, I know who you are? Ready?

542
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 3: Like how you know me already? How the hell you

543
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 3: know who I am? Said? I know your uncle. I

544
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: was alloted to uncle in state Ville and he teld

545
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: me everything about your case, everything by you, and I

546
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: was like, whoa. I was surprised.

547
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: I loved the nicknamed Sally for sale mat. It's very

548
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: much an Illinois thing too. I've never met anybody who

549
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: spent time in Illinois. He didn't use Sally. But how

550
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: does that impact on a day to day if you've

551
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: got a good sale mate or a bad cellmate, Because

552
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: just describe the space that you two were, Oh.

553
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: My god, to sell, Like what how big was. It

554
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 3: was a spall self six by nine, six by nine,

555
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: bumpits and sinking to in the back of the room,

556
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: real small compact cell. And as far as Sally's, it

557
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: make a big difference. You got a good study or

558
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 3: a bad seting, it can you know, it can make

559
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: your time hard or easy. And so we do get

560
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 3: a good seting. You want to keep them far long

561
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: as as you can.

562
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: So you guys were seal mates for four years?

563
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 3: About four three years?

564
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, more like all right, so what made you guys

565
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: good sale mates?

566
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: We just jailed real quickly. I mean, so you walk

567
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: in the cell. You you could tell you right away

568
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: by the first couple of seconds is you two will

569
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 3: get along with that right there and then. And we

570
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: just we never had no arguments, We never had no disagreement.

571
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: We just jail, We cooked together, we ate together. We

572
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 3: had common ground as far as our cases go. Look

573
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: at them like a big brother like our father. For

574
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: I mean, he showed me and taught me a little

575
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: about the law and just the case we did separated.

576
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: He basically taught me what I wrote that note, so

577
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: what I need to do just to case get separated.

578
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: And that's way I know what to do with my

579
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: with my legal stuff. He became family, you know, because

580
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 3: being at cell like twenty three to one most of

581
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: the time, you know, the cell is so small. You

582
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: get you know, there's nothing to do buty top and

583
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: you know each other backgrounds, family stuff. So it got

584
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: real personal. He probably know me better than my own family.

585
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 3: To be honest with.

586
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: You, I can imagine that any bad character trait the

587
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: other person has is like magnified, you know, put on

588
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: volume ten. Absolutely, so neither one of you had annoying

589
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: habits that bothered the other one.

590
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: Come on, I mean came in. He didn't have a

591
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: lot of hair on his face, but he would take

592
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: a long time to shave. In fact, he probably won't

593
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: admit this, but one of the things I did do

594
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: was Robert got locked up fairly young too, and I

595
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: would later learn that his father wasn't in his life

596
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: when he came into Purberty. When his hair is coming in,

597
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: so Robert was shaving against the grain, and I would

598
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: tell him, you got to go with the grain in

599
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,239
Speaker 2: order not to have irritation, because sometimes he would have it.

600
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: Roberts has very sensitive skin, and so I would tell

601
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: him you got to go with it, so, you know,

602
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: to show him how to shave.

603
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: I love that you taught him how to shave correctly.

604
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: No more or the right way to She knew how

605
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: to shave right.

606
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: Wing and Robert, Jimmy didn't do anything that that ever

607
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: got on your nerves.

608
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: I mean it was now and then he would play

609
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: some music a bit loud when I was doing legal work,

610
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: but I would just with my own headphones on the

611
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: list to my own music, you know. I mean, there

612
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: was ways in which we could avoid being in the

613
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: each other's space. We did eventually get separated, and I

614
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: would eventually wind up going to another unit, North one

615
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: and he remained in the South house.

616
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: But due at the time though he was able to

617
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: still stay able to communicate with Yeah. Yes, and the

618
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: way he did that we were kites and Carrie started

619
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: just like letters basically keep him up today, what's going

620
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: on with my family? Was going on my case and

621
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 3: vice versa or sometimes and we meet up at church

622
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 3: and we talk about certain things and stuff like that

623
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 3: at church.

624
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: So you guys, it very much sounds like Jimmy, you

625
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: took Robert under your way.

626
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 2: Yes he did, well, yeah, I mean, but it was reciprocal.

627
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: It wasn't all that stad. He would look out for me,

628
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 2: make sure I was straight. You need anything, If you

629
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: need something, let me know, you know. So there was

630
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: times that one unit might go on lockdown. The other

631
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 2: wooden man, you know, send me some summer sausages and

632
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 2: send me this. He would gladly send it. Tuna. I

633
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: love tuna, so he would send me tune.

634
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 3: It's a big was the same way.

635
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 2: If he needed something, I would look out for him.

636
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: But not just that. Jimmy fortunately be a cross incrosserted

637
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 3: for solon that he knows a lot of people, he

638
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 3: got all connections to as far as politics and stuff

639
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 3: like that. He can't taught me the politics game. In prison,

640
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: you know, have to govern around things also, And like I,

641
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 3: we usual to get what onions, tomatoes, you know, wesed

642
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 3: to buy them off the gay green peppers. You know,

643
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 3: ice cream ice cream, so you get ice cream, you know.

644
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: So there were ways you could maneuver better, better food choices.

645
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been locked up longer. So going to Minard,

646
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: I knew a lot of individuals that were down there already.

647
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: I had don't legal work for some of them. They

648
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: were so glad to see me. They wanted to send

649
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: me stuff. I would never tell somebody, give me, you know,

650
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: expert doing work, why you know you get it? You

651
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: know this for that, but they would gladly say the

652
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 2: same thing. Robert would say, are you okay? So there

653
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 2: was a lot of people would often ask to be

654
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: you need something. I'm over in the kitchen. I need

655
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: someone over here when I get some ice cream mode.

656
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: So that kind of support must be so important just

657
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: in terms of your emotional and mental state.

658
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: Mental state.

659
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but how did you guys? Do you remember any time,

660
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: particularly for the one another, where you guys hit a

661
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: tough patch where you showed up for the other person.

662
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: For him, I understood, you know, he was away from

663
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: his daughter, so she was going up, or she would

664
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 2: the family would set a visit and were able to come,

665
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: and vice versa. My family would set a visit, they

666
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: wouldn't come, so we would pick each other up. You

667
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: are right, or you know, we'd make a special meal,

668
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 2: or he did most of the cooking, to be honest,

669
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 2: because I'm not a very good chef. But yeah, he

670
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: made a good piece of puff. I'll tell you that

671
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: I caught the hot pockets. Yeah, well it's a piece

672
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: of puff. But anyway, No, the thing is that, you know,

673
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: if you're really in there with somebody like this in

674
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: a small space, you could pick up on the energies

675
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: and sometimes just not talking to somebody isn't enough. Just

676
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: give them their space because they're in their thoughts. And

677
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: I would do that or he would do that for me,

678
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: and we would know not to bother the other person.

679
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 2: So that type of sense makes it that much more.

680
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 3: Companions also just also for like the birthdays, Christmas and

681
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 3: stuff like that because we are so far. The minar

682
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 3: is like six to eight hours for the city, so

683
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: to get visits and something that is of your heart.

684
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 3: My fa I didn't see my fan for a while.

685
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 3: You know, they come for first to once every three months,

686
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: once every six months, once a year. They went so

687
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 3: once every three years. Then it's just you know, away again.

688
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: It's that passing of time. And so so you know, Robert,

689
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: you were in there for over two decades and then

690
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen life changed for you big time. You're

691
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: listening to Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pachecko. You can

692
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good Podcasts

693
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava

694
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So when you found

695
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 1: out you were getting out, how did you tell Jimmy?

696
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: Do you remember?

697
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 3: Well? I was a menar for I think about twenty

698
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 3: one years, twenty one and a half years, and during

699
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: my twenty first year, they asked me, I want to

700
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: go to Gailsburg. I'm like, sure, no problem, why not.

701
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: But the thing is, I tell him about the news

702
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 3: that you know, there's some stuff going on in my case,

703
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: but I really know what's going to happen. I was

704
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 3: in Gailsburg for about two to three weeks and that's

705
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: when I get the phone call from my lawyer talking about, man,

706
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: I got some good news for you. You basically coming home

707
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: tomorrow Friday. I'm like, it was just so so real.

708
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: I just couldn't. I was just shocked, you know, because

709
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: you think about this day, you dream about that day,

710
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 3: you just always fantasy about it, but when it do come,

711
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 3: you just like, is it really happening? Is it a dream?

712
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 3: I was ac static coming home, of course, being reunited

713
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 3: with my daughter and my family, you know.

714
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: So Robert take me to after you get out, how

715
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: does your friendship change, how do you continue staying in touch?

716
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: And do you have almost survivors guilt? Do you feel

717
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: that pressure to get Jimmy out?

718
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 3: The thing is Jimmy and I just Jimmy, but other

719
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 3: friends I made with in prison, they become family. You know.

720
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: I didn't feel with Morris, but I feel like I

721
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 3: need to do something to tup the guys out any

722
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 3: way I can. So basically through you know, I'm going

723
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 3: to courts supporting the other guys, showing my support my

724
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 3: lawyer Jennifer Byji, who also know other lawyers. Eventually, you know,

725
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 3: I know these other lawyers basically networking and like I

726
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: tried to help other guys when I can so far

727
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: as like with Jimmy, Jimmy asked me, do I know

728
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 3: a lawyer named Lauren. So at the time, like, yeah,

729
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 3: I know Laurence. She's my girl. She's cool with me.

730
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 3: We tight. He's like, man, I need you to toss her.

731
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: See she cold take my case. I got you, I

732
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 3: got you. So I ended up talking to Lauren and

733
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: so Lauren, yeah, you know, and my friend Jamie, he's

734
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: a good guy. They did him wrong, and I wondered

735
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 3: if you look at his case, and she like, sure,

736
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 3: send it to me. So I sent her at the

737
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 3: paperwork and she reviewed it and she said, oh my gosh,

738
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 3: she's this case. They did him wrong. Yeah, and so

739
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: she started looking into it. She talked to her boss

740
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: like yes, and she got into it too. So anyway

741
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 3: back to Jimmy. Jimmy called me, asked me, you talked

742
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 3: to Lauren. I said, yeah, I talked to Lauren man.

743
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:32,959
Speaker 3: She says she got to She's like, wait a minute.

744
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 3: I talked to Lauren and she said you didn't talk

745
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: to her. I said, what do you mean. So there's

746
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 3: two Laurence. Yes, I didn't know.

747
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: Yes, there is a Lauren at the Illinois Innocence Project,

748
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: Lauren Keseberg. And then there's the Lauren that we are

749
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,479
Speaker 1: speaking of, who is Lauren Myers cough Mueller. And she's

750
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: with the Exoneration Project at the University of Chicago Law

751
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: School and she joined on Emmy's team filing a clemency petition,

752
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: and from.

753
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 3: There he basically ended again in the Dream Team.

754
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: Lauren gets involved in twenty twenty and in May of

755
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, Governor Pritzker commutes your sentence Jimmy to

756
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: parole eligible. And then December fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the

757
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: Cook County States Attorney's Office agreed that the charges against you, Jemmy,

758
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: and your cousin David should be vacated and the charges

759
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: were dismissed. Robert, what was your feeling leading up to

760
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: that date?

761
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 3: So the day before I find out that he was

762
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: coming home, I was just like ecstatic, this is finding

763
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 3: He's going to happen. After forty two years, finally Jimmy

764
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 3: going to have his day. He helped so many other

765
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 3: people come home, and now he's coming home. And I

766
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 3: was in tears. I diin't gonna lie. I was just

767
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: so happy for him, just running up and down that

768
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 3: my apartment, like, yes, this is happening.

769
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: So by the time Jimmy, you and David got out,

770
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: you had spent forty two years.

771
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: Well, no, I spent forty two years, two months, and

772
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 2: two days.

773
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: That's the longest wrong incarceration in Illinois history. If I'm

774
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: not mistaken, Oh, you're right.

775
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 2: That is. The National Registry Paston Michigan officially said we

776
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: were the longest serving ax hoonneries in the Illinois State History.

777
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: It's not a badge of honor. It's a title I

778
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: would gladly relinquish. I would not wish that on anybody.

779
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 2: But unfortunately, that's what it is.

780
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 3: And this is a club were in, you know. Unfortunately,

781
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: this is a club that nobody want to be in,

782
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 3: but we are. You know.

783
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: Now, I've seen the video of when you got out, Jimmy,

784
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: but tell me the moment you remember catching one another's

785
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: eye when you walked out.

786
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: Okay, I get out from the gatehouse, which is the

787
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: first entry point when you're going into Stateville Prison. So

788
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 2: now I'm exiting it. I changed my clothes and I

789
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: jump in a vehicle and one of the officers say,

790
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 2: see that those lights down there at the end of

791
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 2: this little road. I said yeah, he said, that's all

792
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: for you. He said, the press is down there to

793
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: talk to you. So we drive down there and I

794
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: get out the car and I see Robert. I see

795
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 2: Robert dressed in a camouflage outfit jacket and pants, and

796
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: I see him with his glasses and he got a

797
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: grin from here to ear. And so yeah, I mean

798
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: the first ones I hug. Naturally is one of my

799
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: other sisters, and then after that, I think Robert was

800
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 2: the second one that came. He hugged me and they're like, man,

801
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 2: you know, we just hugged. It was an emotional moment.

802
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did it, you know, and food circle and

803
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 3: I was so happy for him. Just squeeze him so tight.

804
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: And now we're home. You know.

805
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: It was very surreal to be on the other side

806
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: of the wall with somebody that you had forged a

807
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: bond of relationship with and to see that our past

808
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 2: life's journey had crossed and now it was once again

809
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: coming to cross, but in a good way where you know,

810
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 2: I was now a free person.

811
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 3: Free man.

812
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys share such a strong bond, and

813
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: you have so much in common and have well over

814
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: a combined sixty years spent in prison for crimes you

815
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: did not commit. What does it mean to have one

816
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: another in your lives in these big transitions.

817
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 2: Well, to me, I could tell you it means a lot.

818
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: Because of course, he was released years before me. He

819
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: was released in twenty seventeen, and here I am, I'm

820
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: released in twenty twenty three, so there's a you know,

821
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: that gap. But to know that he was able to

822
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: transition into quote unquote the real world before me, he

823
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: already learned how to navigate it, and so he was

824
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: very helpful in telling me the things I need to do,

825
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: for example, going to get my state of Illinois, I

826
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: d getting me used to going to drive a car again.

827
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 3: A little bit with the phone too, But.

828
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he helped me and Daddy and I thank him.

829
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 2: I thank God to have him there to be able

830
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: to tell me, you know, some of these things and

831
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 2: how to navigate them myself.

832
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 3: The thing is, though, I feel like, you know, he

833
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 3: was able to help me with then when I was incarcerated.

834
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 3: Now am I able to pay it for and help

835
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 3: him out regard to how smart it is. It just

836
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 3: feels so good to help him in any way I can.

837
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: And he's my brother. I'll do anything for him. At

838
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 3: the end of the day. That's my brother. And thank

839
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 3: you for having me.

840
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 2: Thank you for that's my little that's my little son.

841
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: Now that's my brother.

842
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: While he was incarcerated, Jimmy Soto earned a Bachelor's of

843
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: Science and sociology from the Northwestern Prison Education Program. He

844
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: graduated magna cum laudie and is now studying for his

845
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: LSAT to go to law school. I know he is

846
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: absolutely going to ace that test. He is also part

847
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: of Parole Illinois, an organization fighting to bring back parole

848
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: to a state that has effectively had no parole program

849
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy eight. To support James in his continuing

850
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: fight for justice and in his goal for earning a

851
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: law degree, you can donate to his gofund me, which

852
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: is linked at the end in the episode description. Thank

853
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco.

854
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the

855
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: links in the episode description to see how you can help.

856
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler,

857
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: and Kevin Wardis, as well as our producers Annie Chelsea,

858
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: Kathleen Fink, and Jackie Pauley. This series is produced, edited,

859
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: and hosted by me Lauren Bright Pacheco. Our senior producer

860
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: is Kara Kornhaber. Story editing by Hannah bil research by

861
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: Shelby Sorels, mixing and sound design by Nick Massetti, with

862
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: additional production by Jeff Clyborne. Our theme music is by

863
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all social

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