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Speaker 1: Welcome to Chillians. I'm Joel Webber and I am America.

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Speaker 1: Bell tunis okay, Eric, it is the end of October,

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Speaker 1: which means we've got Halloween coming up. We have kind

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Speaker 1: of an it's become a bit of an annual tradition

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Speaker 1: non trillions, where we do the E t F Graveyard,

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Speaker 1: which acknowledges all the various ETFs that have closed this year. Um,

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Speaker 1: are you in a Halloween costume for this episode? Not

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Speaker 1: really unless I'm playing like um casual guy at his

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Speaker 1: house doing work in a polo shirt that sounds like

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Speaker 1: four days a year. Yeah, Psycho totally plans you're Halloween

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Speaker 1: costume or your kids more maybe Yeah. My oldest is

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Speaker 1: going to be the Grim Reaper, which a little dark,

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Speaker 1: but that's what he wants to be, and my youngest

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Speaker 1: is Black Adam the New Rock movie. Um My guy

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Speaker 1: is still a little undecided. We've got this default costume

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Speaker 1: that he turns to every year, which is an old

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Speaker 1: milk carton. He like gets inside of it, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's like made of foam or something. So we'll see

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Speaker 1: if he's a milk carton or if he comes up

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Speaker 1: with something new. But by the way. Can I just

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Speaker 1: tell a story. My son went to his Halloween dance

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Speaker 1: and the school is is a sixth through eighth grade dance,

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Speaker 1: and some kid walked out dressed as Patrick Bateman from

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Speaker 1: American Psycho, and I'm like, whose parents are letting them

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Speaker 1: watch that? And so the parents are immediately one of

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Speaker 1: the parents was like, um, the kid was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, nobody knew who I was except for one

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Speaker 1: other kid, and he's like, well, what are the parents

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Speaker 1: was like, that's more of a reference for our generation. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: that was an unusual costume for a middle schoolween dance.

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Speaker 1: Good moving away, Yeah, creepy and and book. I think

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Speaker 1: if I see that kid at that dance, I go

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Speaker 1: home immediately. Okay, So to walk us through the graveyard

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Speaker 1: insert scary music here, we've got Katie Grenfield, who's uh

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Speaker 1: E t F reporter with Bloomberg News, Athanasios Seraphagus and

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence, where he's an E t F analyst with

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Speaker 1: Eric and Todd rosen Bluth who's now with Vitafy and

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Speaker 1: looking forward to having him back on the program, this

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Speaker 1: time on trillions. E t F Graveyard, Todd, Athanasios, Katie

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Speaker 1: welcome back to trillions. Thank you for having me. Glad

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Speaker 1: to be bad, excited to be here. Okay, Athanasios, I

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Speaker 1: want to start with you. You've got some numbers for

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Speaker 1: us to tell us. Put this all in perspective. How

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Speaker 1: how bad is this year's graveyard? Uh, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: that bad, but I think we have to look at

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Speaker 1: where we're coming from. So normally, in a normal year,

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Speaker 1: it's always been about two and a half to one,

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Speaker 1: meaning there's about two and a half new launches for

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Speaker 1: every clothe Sure, that's like the healthy chure and ratio

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Speaker 1: for the industry. It got pretty crazy after COVID, like

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Speaker 1: UM a couple of so we reached as highest almost seven.

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Speaker 1: So there were seven new e T s coming out

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Speaker 1: for every closure. That's the HIGHESTT far back as I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen. That's the highest reading that we've seen industry.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's a couple of things feeding into it.

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Speaker 1: One was there was a new rule that was passed

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Speaker 1: that just made it a lot easier to launch ets

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Speaker 1: for the industry, and then you know the market going up,

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Speaker 1: that was a big fueler into all these UH launches

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Speaker 1: coming out. And then the third thing was retail. You know,

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Speaker 1: after COVID, all the retail investors started jumping into the market,

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Speaker 1: all these thematic launches that were coming out. We're really

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Speaker 1: tailored towards this this audience. But now what's happening is

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Speaker 1: the closure number is starting to pick up, so that

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Speaker 1: seven to one ratio is starting to come back down

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Speaker 1: the earth a little bit. It's still really high by

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Speaker 1: historical standards. I think now it's about four to one,

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Speaker 1: but it's coming down quite a bit from we were before.

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Speaker 1: But what I think is really interesting is I think

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Speaker 1: there's about seven t s that have come to the market.

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Speaker 1: Since that is a lot of that's like a third

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Speaker 1: of the industry or so that's only coming pretty recently.

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Speaker 1: A lot of those are down, meaning you know, if

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Speaker 1: you launched in one or even this year, you're down

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Speaker 1: out performance. That's pretty rare because the market has been

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Speaker 1: so good for so long. But a lot of these

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Speaker 1: ets have just enjoyed the bowl market. So even if

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Speaker 1: you don't have money coming in, your assets were going up.

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Speaker 1: Now you're sort of faced with this new thing that

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Speaker 1: I think issuers haven't been faced with the while, is

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Speaker 1: that performance is down. So a lot of them are

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Speaker 1: facing this really significant like performance headwind that I think

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Speaker 1: is going to force a lot of closures in the

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Speaker 1: in the future. I'm not trying to be mr you know,

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Speaker 1: Grim Reaper here, but I think there's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lot of ets that are gonna face, uh, some pretty

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Speaker 1: difficult conversations with clients, and I don't know a lot

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Speaker 1: of them are gonna be able to stay around for

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Speaker 1: as long as we like, Todd, what happens after that

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Speaker 1: conversation with the clients? What what is a liquidation process

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Speaker 1: of an e t F look like? Well, first, let

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Speaker 1: me level said ets are closing because of lack of demand.

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Speaker 1: So while I hear what ath Nacios is saying and

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Speaker 1: it's a tough conversation, there aren't that many of these

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Speaker 1: tough conversations that are happening if if there were enough

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Speaker 1: clients and that the e t F would survive even

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Speaker 1: if the fund is performing badly. So this is more

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Speaker 1: of an annoyance to an investor then, and to the

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Speaker 1: handful of investors that are that are in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: But what happens is the asset manager will choose to

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Speaker 1: will liquidate the fund, which means they will sell all

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Speaker 1: of the holdings that they have within the portfolio. If

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Speaker 1: they're tracking the index, and that's easier if it's one way.

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Speaker 1: If they're actively managed, then they probably have been paring

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Speaker 1: down their exposure heading in to the closure. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: sell meat to settle the other obligations that they have,

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Speaker 1: and then they're going to return the money back to shareholders.

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Speaker 1: So if you've heard that your fund is closing, the

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Speaker 1: best thing for you to probably do is sell on

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Speaker 1: your own terms instead of waiting to the last trading

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Speaker 1: day and then getting what are likely to be sent

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Speaker 1: on the dollar. I agree with you. I think closure

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Speaker 1: liquidation risk is something to think about. But it's not

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Speaker 1: it's it's not like you could lose your principle. I

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Speaker 1: think it's an important point. It's annoying is probably the

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Speaker 1: perfect word. Um. I think someone compared to a paper cut.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you're getting your arm chopped off. But now, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's um, let's get into things here. So I ran

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Speaker 1: the numbers on this year's dead ETFs. I have nearly

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Speaker 1: one hundred. Okay, So even though as Athodosia said, the

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Speaker 1: ratio has come down a little favoring the launches. There's

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Speaker 1: still almost a hundred ETF that have decided they can't

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Speaker 1: do it, and so, uh, just some quick numbers on these.

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Speaker 1: The average fee of it of these are sixty basis points,

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Speaker 1: a little expensive side, and a lot of them are

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Speaker 1: not that old. A lot of like ones have launched

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Speaker 1: in the past couple of years or closing, they're not.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a lot that are over five years old.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of young ones here. I think the

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Speaker 1: average lifespan of a dead et F overall is about

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Speaker 1: three three years, UM. So anyway, just some cool points

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Speaker 1: on that. Now, we're going to have each of the

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Speaker 1: guests on the show point out a couple. They took

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Speaker 1: a stroll around the graveyard and they're going to point

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Speaker 1: out a couple that intrigued them and they would like

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Speaker 1: to talk about. And first up is Katie Gretfeld. Yeah, Katie,

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Speaker 1: take us to your headstone. What's the first headstone you found.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with one that's pretty emblematic of what

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Speaker 1: Eric was just talking about, and that is V pop.

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Speaker 1: It's the simplify volt pop culture disruption e t F.

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Speaker 1: And like Eric was saying, this is pretty young. It

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Speaker 1: was launched December, closed down in June of this year.

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Speaker 1: This called my eye because, um, what is a pop

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Speaker 1: culture disruption portfolio? It seems like this was mostly entertainment stocks.

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Speaker 1: I see Spotify in here. I also see some social

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Speaker 1: media names also tesla Um interesting. But it also caught

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Speaker 1: my eye because we did have a k pop et

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Speaker 1: F launched this year. It hasn't done spectactulally well. That

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Speaker 1: k pop ETF is only taken in about two million.

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Speaker 1: But when this e t F left us v Pop

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Speaker 1: it had less than a million dollars in assets. As

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Speaker 1: you can guess, without portfolio was doing pretty pitifully. Had

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Speaker 1: less than a million dollars in assets, down like fifty

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Speaker 1: six percent year to date. I think last year it

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Speaker 1: felt something like ten percent. So it was definitely uh

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Speaker 1: riding the boom that we saw in and sort of

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Speaker 1: sort of these high flying names and just unfortunately lost

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Speaker 1: launched it the worst time. So that's an e t

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Speaker 1: F that we said goodbye to this year. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is an interesting one too. I almost picked this one

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Speaker 1: to Katie Um for the same reasons. I also think

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Speaker 1: Simplify put this out. It's also interesting to watch these

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Speaker 1: issuers like simplified to me. There their brand now to

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Speaker 1: me is of a hedge fund type company that does ETFs.

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Speaker 1: This is a thematic et F almost seems like something

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Speaker 1: like until or Defiance would do. And I think sometimes

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Speaker 1: once you get branded and thought of as a company,

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Speaker 1: it's sometimes tough to go outside of that. But maybe

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Speaker 1: it's good. Maybe they're meant to be that company and

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Speaker 1: not work on themes. But that's another observation from that

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Speaker 1: is sometimes people go out of there u sort of

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Speaker 1: wheelhouse reputation and it a lot of times doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: Janics did a lot of these the ets back in

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Speaker 1: the day, and a lot of them clothes as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean simplifies p fix, you know, the simplifying interest

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Speaker 1: rate hedge GTF. That's an example of a product I

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Speaker 1: think that came ra out around the same period of

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Speaker 1: time in the last couple of years, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: typical of what I think of and what the industry

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Speaker 1: probably now thinks of, which simplify as opposed to thematic ets.

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Speaker 1: It definitely doesn't fit their traditional lineup. But just some advice,

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Speaker 1: don't put pop in the name cup culture k pop popcorn,

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Speaker 1: just don't do any of that. Those are gonna those

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Speaker 1: are going to close. They're gonna close bold So you're

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Speaker 1: you're calling we're gonna be talking about K pop this

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Speaker 1: time next year. Yeah. I actually told Eric I haven't

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Speaker 1: had the headline for already it when it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: k flop, that's gonna that's brutal. That's pretty good. That's

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Speaker 1: pretty good. Um alright, Todd, So you you took a

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Speaker 1: tour of the graveyard with Tombstone. Did you find that

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Speaker 1: that you want to start off with? Yeah, I'd focus

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Speaker 1: on JP Morgan's US dividend d t F j d

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Speaker 1: I V is the ticker UM and for a couple

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Speaker 1: of reasons, this has been a record year for E

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Speaker 1: t F inflows tied to dividend strategies. I think we

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Speaker 1: I was on a prior podcast where we talked about

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Speaker 1: that likely to happen, and now has happened. We're hearing

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Speaker 1: from advisors that vertify that they're seeking out income alternatives

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Speaker 1: given a rising interest rate environment. J Dive closed with

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Speaker 1: about sixty million in assets, But for perspective, JP Morgan

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Speaker 1: has the JP Morgan Equity Premium Income jep J e

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Speaker 1: p I, which is a covered call income strategies owned

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Speaker 1: stocks as well as the UM aspect, and it's pulled

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Speaker 1: in nine and a half billion dollars this year. It's

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Speaker 1: now a thirteen billion dollar ETF. So you can clearly

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Speaker 1: see JP Morgan focusing on the covered call versions of

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Speaker 1: of equity income as opposed to the dividend strategy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is uh it's surprises. JP Morgan has close to

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Speaker 1: ETFs UM sixty million for Indie. They probably hang around

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Speaker 1: with that money, but JP Morgan that's like half a

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Speaker 1: half a half a cent um, So I get this.

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Speaker 1: But it's this fund is beating the smp it's and

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Speaker 1: it's very moderately priced. The expense ratio is pretty low.

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Speaker 1: So UM, I guess they're just going to focus on

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Speaker 1: some of the other things that are working better as

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Speaker 1: take us to uh your scary little corner of the graveyard,

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Speaker 1: would you find? Sure? So the one I picked was

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Speaker 1: f U T, which is the pro shares Managed Futures

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Speaker 1: et F. You know, I think on the show last week,

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Speaker 1: you guys looked at ets were working this year and

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Speaker 1: there weren't that many, but one of the ones that

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Speaker 1: we're working were managed futures, and it just shows that

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Speaker 1: sometimes e t s closed right before like their moment,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of feel bad for these guys. They've

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Speaker 1: had this thing around since like two thousand sixteen and

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Speaker 1: then finally like they've been waiting every year for managed

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Speaker 1: futures to work, and this is like the first year

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Speaker 1: that's actually starting to work. But they've closed it in May.

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Speaker 1: So there's like this huge like seller's remorse with this closure.

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Speaker 1: I think it didn't have a lot of money. I

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Speaker 1: think they're tough strategies to sell. They don't work in

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Speaker 1: every environment, but this is one of the only years

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Speaker 1: that they're working. So that one really, uh stuck out

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Speaker 1: to me because you have some competitors that have come

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Speaker 1: in after them and been able to raise like some

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Speaker 1: pretty significant assets. So it's kind of a bummer. Like

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Speaker 1: you know, timing matters too. We've seen in the past

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Speaker 1: sometimes these clothes before there before the numbers called, But

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Speaker 1: that one really definitely stuck out to me. If they

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Speaker 1: if they had stuck it out just a little bit longer,

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Speaker 1: how much longer do you think they would have needed

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Speaker 1: to clock before you know, they could have been reser erected. Maybe, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean a couple more months they closed than May,

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Speaker 1: so it's still earlier in the year. But I look

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Speaker 1: like the managed future stuff really started to take off,

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Speaker 1: like in the summer, so we're just talking about a

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Speaker 1: couple of months that they probably closed it a little

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Speaker 1: too soon. That and they also closed along short equity

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Speaker 1: e t F and ALTS, which is a combination hedge fund.

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Speaker 1: Alts are doing very well. They're finally having their moment.

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Speaker 1: Why would you close it right before it's you know, um,

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Speaker 1: we've seen this in the past oral I'm trying and

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Speaker 1: I'm we're still trying to find the perfect metaphor for this.

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Speaker 1: When an e t F closes and someone else launches it,

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Speaker 1: we call that the Lazarus list because like resurrected, but

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Speaker 1: like that, what do you call something that closed or

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Speaker 1: died right before its number came up? Like pature. I

258
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Speaker 1: guess somebody equated it to walking out of a movie

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Speaker 1: just before it got good or something. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's if anybody who's listening knows the metaphor that's proper

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Speaker 1: for this. We have a list and we're ready to

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Speaker 1: go with it. We just need the right one and up. Normally,

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Speaker 1: I don't lack metaphors. It's my strong spot, but I

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Speaker 1: can't think of one. But anyway, um, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a great one. And yeah, the ALPS category finally catching

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Speaker 1: fire and they have three E T s that are

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Speaker 1: not going to be around a uh you know benefit

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Speaker 1: from that. Okay, So Eric, you want to be including

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Speaker 1: in this in this lap before we before we do

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Speaker 1: a second lap of the graveyard. What do you find

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Speaker 1: on lap one that stuck out to you? Oh? Okay,

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Speaker 1: ready tags, this is the you even heard of this?

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Speaker 1: This is the trend aggregation E s G TF Okay,

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Speaker 1: So it holds a group of stocks. I think some

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Speaker 1: of the stocks in here are like Netflix, Tesla, Navidia,

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Speaker 1: okay whatever. One point one five cent is the fee.

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Speaker 1: I have to wonder like who wakes up or who

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Speaker 1: is living in in like in a cave where they

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Speaker 1: would think they could put something out that just holds

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Speaker 1: equities and they don't have a brand name at all

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Speaker 1: and they're going to charge that amount of money for it.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention, E s G is so overcrowded. There

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Speaker 1: is way too much supply for the demand. And when

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Speaker 1: I talk demand, I don't mean black rocks, models or

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Speaker 1: the surveys that say there is demand somewhere out there.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about actual grassroots demand. So I think this

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Speaker 1: fund is going to be is part of a wave

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Speaker 1: of E s G closures that we're going to see.

289
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Speaker 1: There's a couple in the graveyard this year. UM. I

290
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Speaker 1: currently have a bet with Todd rosen Bluth, who's luckily

291
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Speaker 1: going to be able to respond to this. I said,

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Speaker 1: I basically, if not if nine T s G T

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Speaker 1: is closed by the end of the year, he owes

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Speaker 1: me another steak dinner. So far, I think we're at seven,

295
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Speaker 1: so he's probably gonna win this one. But it's still

296
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Speaker 1: like I think some people might clean up the last

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Speaker 1: few months of the year and I could make a

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Speaker 1: run for it, but tags is one that stuck out

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Speaker 1: to me, So I'm going to clarify. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: make sure we get a couple of things on the

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Speaker 1: record for this and hopefully it makes it into the cut.

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Speaker 1: The way that we do the bet is it actually

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Speaker 1: has to close before the end the year, and typically

304
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Speaker 1: it is four to six weeks and an announcement for it.

305
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Speaker 1: So by the time people are listening to this, they

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Speaker 1: might feel I might be already winning the bed for it.

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Speaker 1: But I'm glad you found the one of seven e

308
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Speaker 1: t F s that closed this year that you needed.

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Speaker 1: Let's hope twelve more for your sake. Come out, Katie,

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Speaker 1: take us on another lap of the of the graveyard,

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Speaker 1: and would you find on this one? Okay, so I

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Speaker 1: was gonna do J div as well, So Todd beat

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Speaker 1: me there. I will just say on J DIEV it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that again it feels like it was the perfect

315
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,200
Speaker 1: moment for this e t F. It couldn't quite get there.

316
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Speaker 1: Eric made the point that it was pretty low price,

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Speaker 1: but it was still twelve basis points, and I mean

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Speaker 1: Vanguard's v I G the dividend appreciation e t F

319
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: is half that at six basis points. So I don't know.

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00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 1: It's a well covered space. I'm going to break the

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00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 1: rules on my second lap of the graveyard. As we discussed,

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Speaker 1: this e t F that I'm going to name hasn't

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Speaker 1: actually liquidated yet. It's just been announced. We're talking about

324
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Speaker 1: the Vanguard US Liquidity Factor e t F. They announced

325
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,879
Speaker 1: in late September that they were going to liquidate this fund.

326
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 1: The ticker, of course is v F l q UH.

327
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,640
Speaker 1: It liquidates in November. The reason I want to talk

328
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 1: about it, though, and I'm glad that I was first

329
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Speaker 1: to the punch here, is because it's Vanguard's first U

330
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Speaker 1: S E t F to be liquidated, which feels pretty monumental.

331
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,440
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. Wow. And it just never really

332
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Speaker 1: caught on. It was opened what seventeen sometime around then,

333
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,640
Speaker 1: umen it never really picked up it has. It had

334
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 1: what like forty million dollars in assets when they announced this,

335
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 1: which is for Vanguard E t F pretty puny, so

336
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 1: it just never found its moment. I don't know, maybe

337
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 1: it'll turn into one of these e t F s

338
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 1: that closed prematurely but never got that buzz. I like

339
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:11,639
Speaker 1: it because I had it. I had it on my

340
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 1: list also, Katie, I was, I guess going to follow

341
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 1: you and that it technically hasn't closed, but who cares.

342
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 1: It's it says it's closing, and the graveyard gets filled

343
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 1: up quickly. What's interesting is that they launched this e

344
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 1: t F Vanguard at the same time that they launched

345
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 1: a few other active factory tfs and those have caught on.

346
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 1: So you know, Vanguard US Value Factor v F v

347
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,399
Speaker 1: A has six fifty million value has been out of

348
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 1: favor up until this year, but no one else has

349
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: a liquidity e t F. I think it's a it's

350
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: a harder term for people to get their arms around,

351
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,359
Speaker 1: as opposed to value and momentum and quality like the

352
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 1: other more accepted factors that that other providers have. Alright,

353
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 1: todd as long as you have a microphone, once you

354
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 1: put your Halloween costumer on and give me your give

355
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 1: us your your second pick. So my second pick is

356
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: h j p X, which is the I Shares currency

357
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 1: heads jp X ni K four hundred. I have to

358
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 1: admit I didn't even know this et F existed, So

359
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 1: the factor's closing um is I don't I won't miss it.

360
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is this is not you know, the

361
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: I Shas is not exiting the currency heads Japan market.

362
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 1: They have a relatively popular one h e w J

363
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 1: which is tied to the ms C I Index thirty

364
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 1: five million dollars. But I flagged this one because the

365
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,399
Speaker 1: the graveyard is littered with currency heads ETFs that closed

366
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 1: too quickly, and this may be uh the last year

367
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,479
Speaker 1: hopefully that we see closures in this regard because currency

368
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: hedging is working, so the pre existing one one that's

369
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 1: gonna survive. H e w J is outperforming the unheaged

370
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,640
Speaker 1: version of Japan by over two thousand basis points. It's

371
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: it's down three percent versus down, except no one cares.

372
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 1: I know you guys have covered this on e t

373
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: F I Q as as well as I think perhaps

374
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 1: on trillions. People are just not putting money in too

375
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 1: currency hed gtfs. In fact, they're pulling them out of

376
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: currency he heads gtfs, even though this is the time

377
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 1: that it's working. So I guess goodbye or to to

378
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 1: the e t F I didn't know existed, but really

379
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: should have gotten more money than it did. There's been

380
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 1: a slew of currency hed gtfs closing because everybody lost

381
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: their mind because so much money went to this tiny

382
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: area and it blew up and everybody had to have

383
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: a currency hedge. And then they started doing half currency

384
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 1: hedge currency hedge this, that and the other, and they

385
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: just went way too far. It was like one of

386
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: those frenzies. And I that's why I think the same

387
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 1: thing will happen with e SG now that people realize, oh,

388
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't always outperform, I think there'll be a culling

389
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 1: back of products because everybody is losing their mind a

390
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: little bit with supply on that. So, um, I agree.

391
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: I don't even know this existed. Um, it was just

392
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: like think it. It just came and went, had no

393
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: money even for ey shares. They couldn't sell it. So

394
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: good one, thank you, Ethanazias. What do you got, um

395
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 1: trip t r y P which is this sonic shares

396
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: like air hotels crews altogether? I don't know. We have

397
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: to ask someone smarter than me, like smart than me,

398
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: why when you saw all the revenge spending, all the

399
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 1: travel like last year, why doesn't this thing go up

400
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: when the airline's ever perform? Well, I don't know, like

401
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: given everything that we saw last year, all the airport issues. Anyways,

402
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: this product only survived like just over a year, which

403
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 1: I was pretty shocked. It was really short. I thought

404
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 1: the timing was really good to take advantage of all

405
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: the travel coming back. Um, and what was interesting about

406
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: this one It only launched with a five dollar price handle.

407
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: Many thet have only cost five dollars to buy it,

408
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 1: which is like the lowest I've ever seen. So they

409
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: were going really heavy towards retail up and I think

410
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: it also just signifies that maybe with some of the

411
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: other closures in here too, that maybe this is sort

412
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: of the end of like the retail buying stuff, that

413
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: maybe they're sort of fatigued and a little bit of

414
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: tired of chasing somebody's names. But that one really stuck

415
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: out to me and just how short lived it was

416
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: for such a very interesting package trade together all the

417
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: all the three main you know, travel things i'll i'll

418
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: punched up together. I'm shocked, shocked. I was hoping trip

419
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: would be like a psychedelic ETF. So maybe someone else

420
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: will will take that ticker, And especially with the Y

421
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: t R y P, it's like it's not your normal trip,

422
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a little different. It's a funky trip.

423
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 1: So I have hoped for that ticker. Someone should lock

424
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: that down. Not that those ETFs have done so great,

425
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: all right, Eric, you you dug through the graveyard, would

426
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: you find on the second lap? Um? Yeah? So, speaking

427
00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: of the like the lifespan and tragically short lifespans, the

428
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: Life Goal Vacation Investment e t F Sonny and the

429
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: Life Goal Children Investment E t F child c HLD.

430
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: These were like a pair and they were only five

431
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: months old before they threw in the towel. And this

432
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: is an interesting concept. What this company was trying to

433
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: do was to say, let's put the name of the

434
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: thing you're trying to say for in the name, and

435
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: we'll do asset allocation based on that. They's used to

436
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: be called like conservative allocation, modern allocation, and aggressive allocation,

437
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: like target date kind of they're like, well, let's put

438
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 1: the thing you're actually doing, so you're saying for vacation

439
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: by this um. It just flopped. And part of the

440
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: reason for that, and I think this is e t

441
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: F that go across asset classes and try to do

442
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: that work for you, they just never catch on that much.

443
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: And I think part of the reason is that advisors

444
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: are such a big part of the e t F

445
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: world and they want to be that. So people will

446
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: either use a target date fund in the four when

447
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: K plan so they don't need it, or they'll use

448
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: an advisor who's going to do at asset allocation for

449
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: them and talk them through these life goals. But it

450
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: was an interesting experiment to try to, uh, you know,

451
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: rethink how an e t F could be marketed and

452
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: but yeah, tragically, short life you know, it's interesting. You

453
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: know those are to the younger ones I had flagged.

454
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: One of mine is I think the oldest on the list,

455
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: which was the pro share short or oil and gas,

456
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: which goes back to two thousand eight, which I'm pretty

457
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: sure that was the oldest d t F on this

458
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: year's list. What do you make of that one? Eric,

459
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: The ticker was d d G. Were just hold on,

460
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: are you get to actually do homework on this and

461
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: you have to just answer off the cuff. Well, I'm

462
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: I'm trying to give an educated answer here. Okay, Uh,

463
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: look d d G down fifty since coming out. But look,

464
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: if you're short oil and gas, that was a good

465
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: trade for a while. But yeah, nobody cared. Interesting that

466
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: something could be open that long with just no interest. Um,

467
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: I think they just got I have to look, are

468
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: there other leveraged oil et F that just sort of

469
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: there were products that closed when we had the oils,

470
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: but you know initial oil spike in you know, the

471
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: if you were a short oil the last couple of years,

472
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: you've Yeah, not a good time to be short. I

473
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: will say, you know this one, it's almost sadder when

474
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 1: they live a long life and they're just completely ignored.

475
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: It's like um kafka or something where you know, like

476
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: no friends, was in the retirement home, you didn't come

477
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: visit me. It's like it's really sad. Okay, Katie. As

478
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: we do this last round, I've got some other questions

479
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: I want to ask. Um, So before we get your

480
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: your final et, F what was your what's been your

481
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: best Halloween costume ever? You know, I'm just a cat

482
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: every single year, the same cat or different ones, usually

483
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: the same cat because I have these specific heels that

484
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: work with the costume. Um, So that's not exciting. Don't

485
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: change it for a Kata was a cowgirl like in

486
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: middle school. That was my go to these This isn't

487
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: a good answer. I appreciate Listen, anybody who follows you

488
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter that is just so on brand though, Like yeah,

489
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: and going right back to the costume year after year

490
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: is interesting and you know brand cohesion and consistency is

491
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: super important to that point, Eric, So thank you. Yeah,

492
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: like the simplify situation we just went over, you don't

493
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: want to be you don't want to go too crazy

494
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: away from the Katie thing. I don't want to get liquid.

495
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: What's your what was your last, Uh, your last, this

496
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: is a good one. This is a double header. Um.

497
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: So there were two Spack E t F s that

498
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: were liquidated. You have the Defiance next gen spack derived

499
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: E t F and then the Morgan Creek Exos spack

500
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: originated E t F. Both of them we said goodbye

501
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: to them over the summer, which is really just a

502
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: sign of the times SPACs were hot. Then they were

503
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: extremely not hot, and um they died. So, Eric, do

504
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: you expect more of these more closures of Spack E

505
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 1: t F s. Um, there's only like a couple left. Um.

506
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: And the one that the one that was the big

507
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: one was spc X. That's the I forget who put

508
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: that out? That one has thirty million only Yeah. Possibly, Um,

509
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: SPACs were just just the tiny little window of time

510
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: they sort of. I also think the f p X

511
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: is the I p o E t F, and I

512
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: believe that now incorporates back. So my guess is that

513
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: SPACs will just sort of be part of the I

514
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: p o E t F s that that are pretty legitimate.

515
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: I think that's what will probably find going forward, So

516
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: they'll be part of the E t F world. But

517
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't think spac specific e t s have a

518
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: bright future. The thing I liked about the spack ETFs

519
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: was that spac rhymes with a lot of things or

520
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: sounds similar to a lot of other words, such as

521
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: spack attack, spack splat. If you're in the business of

522
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: making charts, it was something to look forward to. Okay, Todd,

523
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a personal question, which is

524
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: what is the candy that when you were a kid

525
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: you got it, and then you were like, man, I

526
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: don't want this, and and then you couldn't get rid

527
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: of it. Oh, I thought you're gonna tell me which one? Did?

528
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: I like that? And then nobody else? That was the

529
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: obvious question. So I want to ask the obvious questions.

530
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: What was the thing that you got saddled with that

531
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: you didn't want? I I mean, we just get Starbrusts

532
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: and you have your favorite flavors behind it. So I

533
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: don't like the I think there's a cherry one, like

534
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: a darker red one. Of my memory is correct on it. Yeah,

535
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: I don't like that. I like the I like the

536
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: lemon and the and the orange ones. Not a little

537
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: while since I think I've had a Starburst. But you'd

538
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: you'd have it, and then you'd unwrap it the first time,

539
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: and then once you bite into a candy that you

540
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: then noticed you had a dozen of those. There is

541
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: a graveyard of pink or of orange and yellow starbursts

542
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: in my car. I keep a packet, like a big

543
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: bag of starbursts in my car so I can eat

544
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: them when I drive. I hate those flavors, so then

545
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: we should pair up and ride someplace. Katie Gradfield just

546
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: just eats starburst while driving. That's a little weird. Yeah,

547
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: the well specifically red and pink starbursts, and then I

548
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: just when I get I sort through all of them

549
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: and then I'm left with orange and yellow and that's

550
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: when I throw out the bag. So you kind of

551
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: wish that they just made like a whole block of

552
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: like pink ones and then you could just buy the

553
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: pink starbursts. You know. It frustrates my husband's and he's

554
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: said that, like, why don't we just specifically order you

555
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: this type? But I like the hunt, you know, Okay,

556
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: speaking of the hunt, Todd back to you, what's your

557
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: what's your last pick? Yeah? I like this. When this

558
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: came out, I thought this is a funny TF that

559
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: never caught on, but l O p X the direction

560
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: and low price stock etf UM. This came out during

561
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: when memes and and low price stocks or all the

562
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: rage not for the right investment reasons, for the wrong ones,

563
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: but people were piling into it. Uh. This was gonna

564
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: own companies or did own companies that were priced between

565
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 1: two and five dollars. You know, typically companies don't come

566
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: out between two and five dollars. But what I liked

567
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: it is it reminds me of either the movie Better

568
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: Off Dead, where the kid kept yelling I want my

569
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: two dollars constantly in dove on top of a car

570
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: chasing after John Cusack. Let's be able to get that.

571
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: Or you can think of it as two buck chuck,

572
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: which I'm sure some of us drank in college. Uh,

573
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: when that's all you could afford to drink. Better Off

574
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: Dead UM. By the way, Todd is one of the

575
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: more underrated eighties movies. UM. And this is a problem

576
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: we have on E T F I Q with Matt

577
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: Miller and myself. We actually throw out really high level

578
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: references like Caddy Shack or Fletch or something like that.

579
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: And Katie has a lot of work to do. So

580
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: I would add Better Off Dead to Katie's list of movies.

581
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: It's that she'll just love. I mean, there's these are

582
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: great movies. It's pretty wild because after every reference, it

583
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: feels like that both of you look at me expectantly

584
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't I'm not gonna if I

585
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: didn't get the last three, I'm not going to get

586
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: this one. But you keep trying, and I like that.

587
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, Matt and I are exactly the same age,

588
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: so we had the same childhood pretty much, I think.

589
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: But anyway, um, that's a good one, Todd. I think

590
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: that the two dollar one was there was a lot

591
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: of ets that were sort of born out of the pandemic,

592
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: whether it was the memes thought craze, or it was

593
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: the hotels and airlines, and you know, a bunch of

594
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: them didn't make it. You know, the E T F

595
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: world is such a lot of opportunism, and like you said,

596
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: with currency hedge, people just throw a bunch of stuff

597
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: at the wall and some stuff just doesn't make it.

598
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, this one, I remember tweeting about it when

599
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: the filing came and I could tell the reaction Wasn't

600
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: that great. Okay, Athanasios, here's my question for you, which

601
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: is I asked Katie best costume she's ever been? What's

602
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: the best costume you've ever seen? Uh? Well, maybe because

603
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: I love this movie a lot. But I saw couple

604
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: dressed up as like John Travolta and Ferman like doing

605
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: the dancing scene from Pulp Fiction because I love that movie.

606
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: I love that scene. Yeah, and they like and they

607
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: were even like doing the twist on it was at

608
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: this Halloween party and I thought they pulled it off

609
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: really nicely. That's a good one, all right. Your last

610
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: pick um, This one is ct Are You, which is

611
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: from The Untouchable Kathy would the art transparency et F

612
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: and just show you how tough it is even sometimes

613
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: Kathy Wood has to close E T. S. And I

614
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: think Eric probably like this one because it might fall

615
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: on the E. S. G bucket maybe, And so it

616
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: just shows if she can't pull off the su you know,

617
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: story and selling it and her whole business is built

618
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: on transparency and all that, and they're even having a

619
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: difficult time selling it. So that one I felt was

620
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: really really interesting. Uh when when they shut that one down,

621
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: it really didn't live that long. I think this was

622
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: one of the shortest ones we've seen, right. Launched in December,

623
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: closed in July, seven months or so, so really really

624
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: short life. Uh, but it's just more interesting that it

625
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: came from our really any product shoes throwing out There

626
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: was was being pretty okay on the asset gathering side,

627
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: so that one definitely stuck out. You gotta be transparent

628
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: about your closings too, right, So it goes two ways.

629
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: I actually thought this might be a good shot at

630
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: making E s G like more hot saucy and where

631
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: you have a cat, because only had a hundred holdings

632
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: equal weighted, so that Vault was going to be jacked up.

633
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: So it was like transparency or governance. The g mostly

634
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: on steroids, and it could be used a complement to Vanguard,

635
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: But I didn't work, so I am looking for that.

636
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: I think we'll have more hot sauce E s G

637
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: coming out down the road, and I think that has

638
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: more of a home than the one that tries to

639
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: take over your core. All right, Eric, here's my question

640
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: for you. How do you decide which candy you're going

641
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: to give out every year? Oh? Good question. Um, I

642
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: just basically go to Walmart or Target, and uh, the

643
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: bag that's right there, and then I just picked from

644
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: this year. It would totally be the low cost you

645
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: do you do the low cost eats? Yeah, that's exactly

646
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: who you would what you would do? You do the

647
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: I mean I don't. I don't. I don't sketch out like,

648
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: I don't make a blueprint and come up with the

649
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: battle plan. I just go to the store whenever it's there,

650
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: I grab a couple of bags. Looking. We're in Philly,

651
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: like and where we live, we don't get a ton

652
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: of trick or treaters and we're out. So what we

653
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: do is we put the candy in a bowl and

654
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: just you know, put take one and we put it

655
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: out there and the kids just come and get it

656
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: because we're out with the kids trick or treating. But

657
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: I will say the one that I got this year,

658
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: the candy that I loaded up on, which I think rules,

659
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: is cookies and cream Hershey things. It's so good. It's

660
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: like a little vanilla cookies and cream. But um, it's

661
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: just such a you're keep those white chocolate You're gonna

662
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: keep those, yeah, and kit Cat. We always get those

663
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: because my older son likes it, and then we get

664
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: nothing peanut because my younger son has a peanut allergy,

665
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: so the snickers and all stuff we can't have. Eric,

666
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: your final pick from the graveyard. Yeah, this is boring

667
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: but interesting for an analyst because it's shows how tough

668
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: the et F market is. I got the Nationwide Risk

669
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: based US equity e t f R BUS now Nationwide

670
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: closed another one. And this is a big insurance company, right,

671
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: and I look, they have a hundred thirty billion in assets, right.

672
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: They clearly could have put some money in this. I

673
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: don't know why they did not. Why would they all

674
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 1: meet and the manager gets together with this company says, yeah,

675
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: let's launch these ETFs because at the very least we

676
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: can put our own nationwide money in there. Why wouldn't

677
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: they plan that at a time they clearly put about

678
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: Obviously the marketplace didn't care because it's so brutal, and

679
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: the own people didn't care. Why And I don't know

680
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: what's going on there. Delta Shares are the same thing.

681
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: Delta Shares is another big insurance company, Transamerica. They have

682
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: eighty eight billion. So I think this speaks it's two things.

683
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: If you're one of these big legacy managers, and you're

684
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: not going to come out and be either really cheap

685
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: or really shiny. You would better bring your own assets.

686
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: And I'd always say, have a meeting beforehand where everybody

687
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: signs off that, yeah, we're gonna put a billion dollars

688
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: into this. Otherwise it's going to be embarrassing. And so

689
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: I think these speak to the terror done nature of

690
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: the market when you've got giant, behemoth insurance companies that

691
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: can't get anything going in these things? Is that two

692
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: dour of a note to end on? I fell when

693
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: he said nationwide stop. It's true insurance companies are this

694
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: isn't that the greatest note to end on? Um? So okay,

695
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: my mine was boring. Let's see if you can spice

696
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: it up. We haven't asked you to do any joll

697
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: give us mine what I had A couple that UM

698
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: that I that I had UM. You remarked for this

699
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: moment fallen nives et FU with the ticker they couldn't

700
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: spell knife, so they did in I FE. I thought

701
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: that was great, like perfect Halloween, Uh shout out for

702
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: for the fallen knives et F. Yeah, and people must

703
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: have gotten bloody hands because I mean, I don't even

704
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: know what was in that thing. You know, it's weird.

705
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: I do not see the holdings, Todd, do you remember

706
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: what was in this? It was just stocks that were

707
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: going down but maybe had good valuations, like yeah, traps basically,

708
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: or you know, trying to catch things that might bounce

709
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: off it. I don't remember the exact criteria, but yeah, again,

710
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: not many people got hurt in this one. Otherwise it

711
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: would have it would have survived. To try to attract

712
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: people with something called a falling knife is they might

713
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: want to call it like, I don't catch it, you know,

714
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: things that could bounce, not like hey catch this falling

715
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: knife Like that just seems like a like you're gonna

716
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: get hurt. But I don't know if so. Here was

717
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: the other one, And here was another one that I

718
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: that I had flagged, which was I think it was

719
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: the best ticker on the list, shout up for eric

720
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: here deep uh Diva, which was the A g F

721
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: I Q hedge Dividend income E t F. But I

722
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: feel like that ticker. Somebody's gonna have to come up

723
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 1: with something good for Diva. Wait, you're calling Erica diva?

724
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: Is that what I heard I'm glad you've got it

725
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: way worse. It's fine. That's a that's that was good.

726
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 1: There was there was one other one that I liked,

727
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: which was the bud X the Cannabis Growth e t F.

728
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: We hadn't talked about cannabis in here. I thought that

729
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: was a good one. That's the one I converted, like

730
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: from a mutual fund to an et F and then

731
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: still closed. I think, yes, that's a good point. Yeah,

732
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: that was they couldn't get anything going on the mutual

733
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: fund side. And then I guess not here either. But

734
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: when you pass the bud and you can't and you

735
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: still can't get any takers, it's you know, that's time

736
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: time to time to put the roach down. It was

737
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: a crowded space when this kid thing came in. And

738
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, but X reminds me of like it

739
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: just seems like something that if a movie wanted to

740
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: not pay Budweiser, they would have butt X as the

741
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: product in the in the movie because it's like not

742
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: a real like the McDowell's version. Yeah, like McDowell's Yeah,

743
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: butt x um. Who has a Halloween question for Joel

744
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: about candy or costumes? So Joel, what candy are you

745
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: going to steal first from your child's bag when they

746
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: give it to you to hold while they go to

747
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: the next house. It's a great it's a great question.

748
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: I don't do it the night of. I wait until

749
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: like the next day, following week two weeks, and then

750
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: I start to sort of like squirrel them away. But

751
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: the almond Joy category big fan of the coconut, so

752
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: the coconut stuff will slowly disappear. I'm guessing your son

753
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: is okay with that, Like coconut is not like a

754
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: big hit with kids. They've got so much candy they

755
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: didn't even notice. Yeah, I know. I dip in that

756
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: bag for a long time because we have our candy

757
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: that wasn't taken and his, and so I call it.

758
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: I call it. My wife makes fun of me cleansing

759
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,439
Speaker 1: the palette. I just popped something one of the hallow

760
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: and candy after dinner, and I just my mouth feels better.

761
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: Good questions, good answers, good costumes, good candy. Thanks for

762
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: joining us, Todd, Athanacios, and Katie, thank you. Thanks for

763
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: having me on Happy Halloween, everybody. Thanks for listening to trillions.

764
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: Until next time, you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal,

765
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever else you'd

766
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're

767
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: on Twitter, I'm at Joel Webber Show. He's at Eric Fultuness.

768
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus Hendrickson Bye