WEBVTT - Will Trump Force a Third Term? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.760 Native Land Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:04.040 with Resent Choice Media. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:07.920 Home, y'all. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.800 This is episode ninety six of Native Land Pod. We 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.440 are your host, Tiffany Crost, Andrew Gillum and Angela Rye 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.799 Rocking the cat today, rocking the cat, but spitting. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.520 No cat exactly down. 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.759 Exactly all right, let's get ready to pay for that. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.960 Andrews stopped it, but I know, but you ain't got 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.840 to do an extra plug. Let's get so well. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.240 Speaking of plug, let's plug what we're talking about today, Angela? 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:35.040 What you got. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.920 As of Wednesday morning? 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:39.720 Uh? 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.480 An excerpt from Kamala Harris's book One hundred and seven 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.360 Days was released on The Atlantic and I am very 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.400 eager to talk about that and whether or not y'all 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:48.680 read it. 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.400 That's real, co host. I think we got bombs dropping 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:59.000 over sovereign states of of of Qatar. We got Trump 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:04.040 dropping bomb on speed boats in the Caribbean. We have 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:08.600 Russia invading Poland's airspace. Everybody is violating right now on 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.319 the international scale, and love to talk about the implications 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:13.399 of that on us. 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.920 I have questions for you on that, Andrews. I don't 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:18.440 know if I understand all of it, and our audience 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.080 probably doesn't either. So looking forward to that, I want 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.120 to get into this idea of Trump having a third term. 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:27.720 He has been toying with this idea, but this week, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.679 in particular, Supreme Court Justices Amy Tony Barrett and Sonya 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.479 Solo Mayor were asked about it, and I just don't 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.920 think that society or the media is taking it seriously enough. 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:39.600 So it looks like we have a lot to get into. 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:46.040 Let's rock, Yeah, okay, y'all. So I want to start 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.440 with this quote from the excerpt that was released in 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:54.400 The Atlantic on Wednesday morning. On Wednesday morning, they're thinking 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.120 was zero sum. If she's shining, he's dimmed. None of 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.760 them grasped that if I did well, he did well, 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.800 that given the concerns about his age, my visible success 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.080 as his vice president was vital. It would serve as 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.840 a testament to his judgment in choosing me and reassurance 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.079 that if something happened, the country was in good hands. 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.200 My success was important for him. His team didn't get it, 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.600 and I wanted to start there because I think that 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.760 many of us who have or interfaced with the Biden 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.960 administration at all. This was not a quiet rumbling. This 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.440 was something that was regularly discussed about how they were 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.320 handling Kamala Harris, what her portfolio was, Why was that 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.640 her portfolio? When was she going to get out front 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.680 and lead on some things? And I think really it 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.639 took until well into their third year, around the Dobbs 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.760 decision where we really saw her go out without him, 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.960 without kind of being restrained or handled by White House staff. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.760 So this piece, to me was particularly resident because again 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.000 it wasn't a secret for those of us who knew her, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.880 or know this administration or knew that administration, it was 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.600 the least are the worst kept secret. So I do 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.320 think that you know one I want to hear from 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.840 y'all on what you're expecting in this book. Again, it's 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.760 released on September twenty third, but I think that this 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.560 particular passage is fascinating because I thought we've been new this. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.560 Yeah, let me just say for our viewers. This excerpt 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.040 was dropped in the Atlantic this week. Jeffrey Goldberg had 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.639 a really interesting who of course is the editor of 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.760 the Atlantic, had a really interesting intro even I thought 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.840 with how he introduced it, because he kind of sets 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.200 the tone of you know, there are so political books, 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.360 particularly post more than political books can be incredibly boring, 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:41.720 and he sets the tone that this is not what 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.640 he was expecting from her. And I think a lot 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.840 of people, particularly within the Beltway, will be talking about this, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:49.800 and so I just want to take a moment and 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.680 tell our listeners. If you guys are talking about it, 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.040 please be sure to tell your friends that NLP tackle 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.120 this topic, this topic and share it among your group chats, 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.440 because we want to know if our thoughts reflect yours 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:03.000 and want to hear from you. 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.640 Andrew, what's your take on this book? 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:11.200 You know, just pulling back, I think it's impressive to 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.360 see her really sound like herself. And I guess what 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.080 I mean by that. Again, Angela alluded to this. For 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.000 those of us who have been in you know, contact, 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.839 or have had any real significant relationship with the vice president, 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:27.919 we know the authentic side, the real side, And I 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.680 think she invites the readers, at least so far in 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:32.680 this excerpt, and if this is a sign of things 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.520 to come with the full with the full writing of 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.960 the book released later, you know, this month. Then I 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:44.800 think we're in for a less filtered, almost to unfiltered 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.440 truth teller and Kamala Harris, who's really prepared to square 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:54.680 up with the ways in which she's been wronged, the 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.479 ways in which the credit that she's rightfully earned has 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:03.280 not been provided given to her right she hadn't been 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.000 given her flowers. And I also think will get a 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.799 less filtered version of her policy self, so her political self, 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.719 her policy self, and I think her true sort of 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.320 I'm Kamala. I'm Kamala, not the Kamala Harris, but I'm 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.320 kamala introduction for regular ordinary folks who just want to 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.880 know that there are points of relationship, points of relate 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.520 where you where they can say, oh I do that too, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.279 she does that, Oh I do that too. I think 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.480 that's eluded her for a lot of her political career, 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:42.000 that relatableness between everyday common folks. And then the only 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:43.840 other thing I'd say, just sort a big picture would 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.800 be I've already started hearing some of the conversation amongst 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:52.520 the punditry class sort of reading this excerpt in contrast 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.080 to how Biden would feel, what Biden would think, And 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.480 I just want to say this is her writing, this 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:05.760 is reflecting her herolding journey, unprecedented in American history lift 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.640 from vice president to presidential contender because the city president 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.600 of the United States steps back from the nomination. So 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.479 it's okay if she centered in this, It's okay for 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.400 the book that she wrote to be about her experience 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.640 from her perspective and not centering Joe Biden in that. 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.000 That's not disloyal. I'm not being disrespectful to him. I'm 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.360 simply reminding us that we can read her words and 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.720 take them as hers in their own singular context without 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:38.440 having to compare her or contemplate how's this going to 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:40.000 land with Joe Biden's world. 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:41.240 You kind of get. 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.280 Into some of my thoughts around this, Andrew, because I 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.440 do think this is a bigger deal to the chattering class, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.560 to the punditry class than it is to America. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:51.200 Writ large. 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.960 I will say when I was reading the excerpt in 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.960 The Atlantic, that she does speak right to the heart 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:57.599 of black women. 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:58.280 Like she goes. 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:03.320 She starts out with speaking to Zeta Phi Beta sorority. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:05.880 She gives a shout out to the Divine nine right 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.200 off the top. She talks about the Bulet, and so 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.400 I think there are so many black people who will 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.840 immediately relate to this, and particularly her being this over 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:23.240 qualified woman who was standing behind and ailing. Some might 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:28.000 are you failing in health anyway, man, and so yes, 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.160 that will resonate. I also saw a counterpart in that, 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:32.920 and I think this is where it's always been a 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:37.640 balance right on what I would personally find interesting versus 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.559 what the audience at large would find interesting. I also 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.040 know there will be people Black people in particular, who 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.800 do not relate to the Bulet, who do not relate 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.520 to the Divine Nine, who do not relate to fraternities 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.880 and sororities in private colleges and HBCUs, and who will 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.120 still feel I do not this writing does not connect 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.040 with me. And so I think a lot of these 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.840 political posts more are so exciting to the Beltwegh class 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.760 and not necessarily to people outside of that, given what's 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:11.200 happening in the country. I also think I so understand 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.000 her frustration, and it's like I get to tell my story. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.400 I will not be muzzled in this moment, and I 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.800 want to tell you all this is what happened to me. 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.400 I wonder if the appetite among the American readership, the 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.240 ever dwindling American readership, because we all know how hard 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.360 it is in publishing right now, if the appetite is less, 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.560 like we want to know what happened versus we want 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:41.280 to know how do we defeat Donald Trump and his minions? 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.240 Right now, I don't know how much people will latch 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.240 onto what was happening last year, given that we are 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.720 in a state of panic right now. So look, personally, 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.160 I am going to consume this book. Like I said, 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.760 I read it and I thought, oh, you are going there, 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.880 and this is an excellent excerpt to read to attract 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:02.800 you to it. I just don't know if the American 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.400 people have the appetite for it right now. I think 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.080 a lot of black women, black people with disposable income 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.920 will most certainly buy this book, and I anticipated that 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.280 it will spend a lot of time on the New 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.520 York Times bestseller list, and my best wishes to her, 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.880 I hope it does. I have completely divorced myself from 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.360 the Beltway class their opinions about it. Of course, they 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.360 will send her a white man in this and I 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.640 would just if they happen to ever listen to NLP. 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.280 I mean, I think they have to reckon with the 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.640 fact we talk all the time. We have a group 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.720 chat when we're together, we talk about things we rarely 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:36.560 and even in our group. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.880 Chats outside of each other. I can't tell you. 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.959 The last time somebody has said, oh my god, did 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.920 you guys see what happened on me depressed today? 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.200 Did you guys watch the panopolists today? 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.360 Like they are the anachronisms. Nobody gives this shit what 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.040 they have to say. So the fact that they're centering 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:58.080 Biden shows how disconnected they are from a multi demographic 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.920 society that has complet lely left them behind. They have 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.640 still trafficked in a media landscape that has been completely 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:11.480 bleached by their myopic, outdated, anachronistic viewpoints. And she's clear, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.760 but she is clear to She's like C d G 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.920 A f okay. She's like, I'm coming out, guns of blazing, 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.640 and I'm saying what happened, So we'll see how how 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:20.520 people respond to it. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:25.240 I just I just no, no, no, I think that 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.640 the other part of this, that that is important, based 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.120 on some of the feedback that I'm seeing online, I'm 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.600 curious about it, and I will say in full disclosure 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.240 for those who are watching at home, this is not 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.080 a place where I represent the best of journalistic integrity. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.200 I'm very biased. I love her deeply, and so I've 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:46.280 been curious to see what the comments were. And some 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.560 folks are like, why now, why didn't you say that? 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.800 Then you know where have you been? And I think 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.600 all of those questions are fair. But one thing that 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.200 I'm hoping that this book does is give us a 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:02.120 new frame for what can happen, even miraculously so in 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.200 such a short timeline. Again, they were talking about a 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.800 campaign that was run over a billion dollars worth of 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.520 a spend in one hundred and seven days. So what 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.080 happens if all of the people come together and think 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.280 the best and the brightest, and all of our ideas 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.400 and all of our innovation. We know what he's torn 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.480 up in more than one hundred and seven days, But 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.480 what happens if we come together to see real systemic change, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.000 if we put our best thinking together in one hundred 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.160 and seven days? And I think that is the offering 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.360 that she also gives. It's not just a reflection, it's 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:35.360 an opportunity to lean into what happens if we really 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.960 come together in ways that I think are, frankly, i'm 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.040 precedented in this country for all the reasons we know, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.720 including the fact that America is in fact a racist country. 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:48.440 But I hope that people will ask her why did 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.560 it take this long? I hope that people will not 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.360 center Joe Biden or anybody else's whiteness so much that 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.560 they can't understand that, yes, this man has been diagnosed 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.800 with cancer, Yes he is undergoing treatment, and yes it 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:03.640 is still her story to tell. And no, she does 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.080 not have a whole lot of bandwidth or room to 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.600 decide when the publisher decides to move forward the book. 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:11.920 You know, there are all these things. So I think 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:13.560 that you know, the fact that she wrote it, it 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:15.120 took her longer to write the book than it took 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.800 her to run a campaign one and two, it's still 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.280 a pretty I mean, if you know, it's a pretty 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.320 escalated timeline for the release of a book. 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.320 So yeah, anyway, Andrew, but I want you to talk. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:28.560 I have a question after. 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.320 Go ahead, Okay, just real quick, but first of all, listen, 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.880 her vice presidency like just ended. I know it has 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.480 felt like we've been through the three World War World 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.360 wars and all this kind of stuff as because the 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:46.000 speed and and just dizzying pace of of the of 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.480 the ruining of what we know is the American fabric 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.240 that this administration of the Trumps has undertaken. But in truth, 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.480 this is probably about the right time that you can 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:01.640 step back from a situation as un precedented and unparalleled 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:05.120 as what she has experienced, because not only was it 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.319 the one hundred and seven days, but it was also 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.559 doing that one hundred and seven days as a black 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.400 woman and as a woman, And those are layers that 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.600 also in the first rendering of these excerpts that sort 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:25.200 of really really pierced me was how much concentration and 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:30.280 emphasis was put on how she had to present next 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.559 to Biden, how she needed to appear, how she had 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.560 to demure, how she needed not to be impressive in 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.960 her speaking style, how she, you know, didn't need to 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.200 be the political winner on public on public policy issues 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.560 pursued by the administration for fear that it might dim 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.440 the light of the sitting president. When you're the sitting president, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.720 ain't nobody gonna dim you light. You must you may 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.440 give it away, but you still are the president of 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.480 the United States. But but we knew this with our 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.680 going in, and there were lots of people in Biden 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:06.520 world who were very much so uh suspicious of her 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.840 after that debate where she bought in bussing and we're 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.760 unforgiving of her from that moment I was at that debate, 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:18.240 I remember gasping like, oh God, this is yeah, okay, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.600 so this and it was a lasting thing. I think 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.720 it still lasts for a number of people and for 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.160 those listeners who you know, may not have a complete 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.720 relationship what I'm speaking of. This is a book that 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.240 I think every woman in politics, every woman period who 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:37.480 is trafficking and trying to be taken for your full worth, 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.080 to be seen as a whole person and not a 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:45.120 division of all the various parts of yourself. Of women 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.880 with ambition. And also it's important for men who work 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.000 with women who were equal to the task, if not 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:55.600 greater to to to to understand that we're not the 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.480 center of the universe and everything doesn't revolve around us. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.720 We're not the sun. By we water and flower and 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.840 bring life and enlightenment to everything else around us. We 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.160 all cooperate, right, We're like a body and they're no 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.800 there are no extraneous parts. There's just the whole body, 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.680 and you got to treat it well. And I think 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.560 that's how politics, and particularly politicians the Democratic Party really 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.600 deserve an evolution here around this. We think of ourselves 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.920 as forward thinking around women and centering the needs of women, 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.560 but then in real practice, it's like if the man 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.400 ain't in the middle, you know, and that your actions 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:38.080 are then basically designed in contrast to mine, then you're 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.240 a lost cause you're too ambitious. I'm suspicious of you 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.800 because you won't be loyal because I don't know you 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.920 have designs on your life too. Your designs need to 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.800 be focused and based on my designs, and that's how 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:52.640 you design what you want to do. And I think 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.400 that that that belief that patriarchy is is alive and 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.960 well in both parties, but an American political culture period, 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:00.160 I think we all. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.680 Will have to disaggregate women, right, you know, because I 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:07.320 don't know that black women necessarily feel aligned or allieship 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.760 with white women in politics. And I don't even mean 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.680 just like Trump supporters, I mean just in the Democratic Party. 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.800 I don't know that there is a lot of commonality 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.360 in our interests at times, you know, there are definitely 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.920 members of Congress who are white women who I think 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.440 espouse beliefs and things that I do not connect with, 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.360 some things that run contrary to my own humanity. So 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.280 that's why I said, I think she speaks right to 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:33.720 the heart of black women here. 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:35.480 But I take your point. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:36.760 Yeah, I definitely take your point. 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.800 I just think in the concentric circles that there's a 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.880 circle there that I think all women will see familiarity. Yes, 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.360 but I think you're completely right that her experience is 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.920 coming from that of a black woman in politics, right. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.480 But I hope that white women can learn because I 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.600 think some of the people that she was talking about 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.200 who were saboteurs on a lot of her initiatives were 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.680 white women in the Biden administration. But I want to 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.879 get back to something right precisely. But I want to 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:06.960 get back to something Angela said because this is a 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.120 legitimate question, and I think people say, well, why didn't 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.399 you say that then? And Angela you know better than anyone, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.119 and Andrew certainly you do too. This is why I 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.080 want your thoughts on this. Andrew, you were on a 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:21.399 short leaked list of potential VP running mates for Hillary Clinton. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.399 Angela you've navigated politics from Capitol Hill, and you also, 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.560 in your position on Capitol Hill, worked with the Obama 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.480 administration on a lot of things, so we kind of 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.399 know the social norms and morays of politics, and it 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.439 really is that the vice president is not the person 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.760 out front. The vice president does typically genuflect to the 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:44.600 position of President. Joe Biden himself, uh, you know, had 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.040 a few faux pause on that he was out front 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.720 on gay marriage before Obama really said anything, and he 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.320 was also making a lot of social gaffs during the 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.240 Obama administration. I just think in this era of Trump, 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.719 because as people are asking that question, I hope they 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.880 can understand that that has been the tradition in Washington. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.080 You know that you are You're not the star. You're 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.720 there to support the president. Some people argue the role 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.720 of VP is very superfluous, but I wonder in the 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.400 era of Trump, if that has all gone out the window, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.240 like it has to, all of our norms have to 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.280 go out the window. And I think this is probably 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:28.480 the first political post mortem book that does that from 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.640 a VP role, and I wonder how this will inform 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:34.840 because she has been the first to step out there 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:36.720 and say, you know, f that, let me tell you 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.280 what was really going down. I wonder how this will 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:45.600 inform future VP roles, particularly under democratic administrations, if we 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.480 are ever to see one again, which we'll also get 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.600 to later in the show, and again is a hot topic. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.360 So I hope y'all are sharing this because I want 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.080 to hear from y'all in the comments. What y'all think 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:55.600 if you're going to buy the book. If you bought 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.120 the book, what you think about it? Is you read 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.960 the read the excerpt and all that, but just cure 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.480 your thoughts about that for the VP role Andrew or Adela, 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:03.399 whomever want to take it. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.239 So I think there's a few things here. There's, you know, 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.480 this convergence even of experience that we that we're going 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.040 through right now. Tip to your point around living and 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:20.720 fascism and the obligation that we have to speak up 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.520 so that history is not only kind to us, but 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.919 that we did with the best we could for future generations. 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.840 And I wonder if some of her calculus wasn't you know, 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.359 I have an obligation and I agree with Andrew here 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.679 for all women, because I'm the first woman period to 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.280 serve in this role. Do I have an obligation to 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.800 tell you the hurdles I had to climb, the hills 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.400 I had to you know, uh scale to really make 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.320 this more and more equitable space for you. So I 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:48.960 wonder if she was like, you know, I know what 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.680 the norm is, but do I defy the norm? Because 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.800 if I don't, is there going to be another? That's 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.159 the first consideration. I think the second consideration is, you know, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.560 given where we are right now and here history, it's like, yeah, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.240 like there's kind of a collective obligation that hopefully we 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.320 all feel to tell the truth and shame the devil, 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.160 because if you don't really start telling the truth about 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:17.119 the many like errors, challenges, mistakes that this party, the 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.200 Democratic Party, has historically not learned from, they are bound 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.600 to continue to make the same mistakes and bound to 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.199 continue to lose. I kind of resent some of the 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.600 commentary I've seen y'all, and I know I might be 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:30.439 the one I'm like TIF today in the comments, but 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.119 not from Native Lampard. I'm on the book. But I 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:38.600 wonder if, like if some of what I'm feeling is like, oh, 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:43.320 there's this whiny they're talking about. She sounds whiny in 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:47.000 the book, which also sounds like a gender you know thing. 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.919 It's like you can't have you can't logic complaint, you know, 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.359 when you feel like you stepped out of the Senate 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.280 where you were like America's darling and Senate hearing rooms, 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.120 and then now you're going back into a space where 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.239 you just have to kind of carry the briefcase. And 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.600 I don't even think some of that is the norm. 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.679 There are other vice presidents that were more robust and 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.879 more visible. Mike Pence was not one of them. I 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:11.600 think a lot of people don't even remember he was a. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:16.240 VP, but that changed at all different. 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.200 Sorry, there's tables moving in here, so I don't know 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:19.920