WEBVTT - Energy Infrastructure Red Tape 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.200 Right now, though, let's get to a store. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.400 In the upcoming new issue of Bloomberg Business Week, It's 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.880 out on newsstands tomorrow, it's right now online and on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.760 the Bloomberg terminal. The story notes that in the US, 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.520 the most elusive piece of any new energy project isn't material. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:36.920 We're not talking about things like copper, steel, labor, or 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.360 even capital. It is actually something as simple as a permit. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.720 Turns out, getting permits and getting these projects through not 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:44.360 so simple. 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:45.360 So let's get to it. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.280 Joining us to talk about what's going on. As Bloomberg 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.960 News Energy reporter Josh Saul one of the reporters on 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.520 the story. He's on zoom in New York City along 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.880 with the Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber in our 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:59.320 Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio back in New York City. Joel, 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.280 I had no idea, as you guys lay out in 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.480 this story, how long it takes you. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:05.160 You had no idea. 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:05.800 I had no idea. 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:07.840 There's a I have a funny joke in my house 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.440 where my son will like, build a fort and I'll 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.160 be like, you got a permit for that? And that 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.200 helps me, like, you know, put a damper on the 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.160 on the Ford building. Turns out the US also really 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.839 good at putting a damper on big, ambitious US energy 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:26.520 product projects. And what was even more surprising, perhaps from 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.920 Josh on this story and company on this story, is 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.039 that it's created some unlikely allies. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.520 What's going on, Josh, That's a. 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.640 Good dad joke, Joel, I'm gonna start using that. So 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.000 what's happened here is that the permitting system in the 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.760 US is so is so old and so complicated that 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.400 to build, for example, a transmission line that's going to 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.160 carry clean power across the US, to build a new 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.280 gas pipeline, to build a new solar farm that's going 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.960 to create that kind of clean ener electricity that we want, 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.400 can take can take years, can take ten years. Some 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.120 of the projects we've written about, it can take seventeen years, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.560 and there's still not steel in the ground. And what 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.520 that does is it costs companies billions of dollars. You know, 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.080 it slows down the energy transition and the fight against 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:12.960 climate change that we're trying to get going with all 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:18.240 the clean energy, just a really inefficient bureaucratic way that 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.440 it's set up right now, and that's created some strange bedfellows, 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.160 like you said, where you have oil companies and clean 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.040 energy companies and Republicans and Democrats, you know, folks who 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:31.360 usually do not shake hands, all getting together and saying, hey, 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:32.800 we need to make this better. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.119 Not only Democrats and Republicans, but also within the energy world, 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.480 right you've got renewables and phossipl fuel people. Everybody hates this. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.640 So what's that dialogue been like? 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.639 It's I mean, it's hard to build anything. 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.560 And that means that in a broad sense, you have 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.640 a lot of different companies, a lot of different groups, 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.320 a lot of different advocacy groups and lobbyists all saying 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.560 this needs to be this needs to be streamlined, you know, 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.040 instead of doing you know, two years to designate the 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.480 corridor for a transmission line, and then four or five 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.600 years for the environmental year environmental review, and then another 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.000 two years for a different federal agency to get going 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.680 and then another environmental review that can take four or 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.120 five years. Those are real timelines. I'm not making that 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.880 up as ludacrous as it sounds. They're saying, hey, maybe 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.079 we can get this into a you know, one year, 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.280 two year, one year type schedule. 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:29.240 So there's a sign in this story that Bloomberg has 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.639 covered before, but it was a reminder of just how 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.000 hellish this can look. Like there's this five hundred mile 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:40.800 long sun zea Southwest transmission projects. How bad can this 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:42.200 permitting stuff get? 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:46.280 Josh, it really bad that the sun Zeal Line, which 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.080 is going to carry clean power, solar solar power from 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.000 big solar fields in New Mexico to the Phoenix area. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:55.760 And that's important if you care about climate change, for 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.640 the idea that will be displacing you know, natural gas 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.800 fired plants in the Phoenix area with electrons created by 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.280 the sun that will be flowing from New Mexico. But 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:07.880 in order to do that, you have to build a 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.200 power line to carry them, to carry them, to carry 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:12.720 them those five hundred and twenty miles. 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:14.280 That's really hard to do. 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.760 So that process has been going on for seventeen years 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:18.960 and it's actually it's not a one off. I wrote 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.120 a story last year about a different power line which 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:27.080 would carry electricity from the windy plains of Wyoming, really 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:32.840 windy area to downward down towards Las Vegas, again displacing 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.080 natural gas fired plants and other kinds of fossil fuels. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.640 And that's also been hung up for closer to two 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.359 decades than one decade at this point, because it takes 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.800 so long to get all of the federal permits, to 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.720 get all the private permissions, to cross all of the 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.280 different kind of land that a project like that would 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:52.520 would go over. 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:55.880 Hey, Josh, can we talk pizza? 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:57.400 Yes? 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.480 I love, thank you. I would want. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.240 As we got this far in the conversation, the one 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.359 of the one of the energy analysts we spoke to 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.640 had a fun had a fun analogy, and this gets 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.080 to the idea that, yes. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.480 There are strange bedfellows. Both Republicans, Democrats. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.160 Oil, oil and gas, solar and wind folks all want 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.400 to reform the system. But an energy analyst had a 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.880 good point, which is that yet in a broad sense, 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.479 everyone wants reform of the system. They all want hey, yeah, 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.880 let's order pizza. But actually getting down to the specifics 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.920 of well, what should the reform look like is as 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.599 hard as when you have a room full of people 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.640 and you're trying to decide whether you're gonna be murdering 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.960 veggie pizzas, meat pizzas, anchoby pizzas. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.120 Pineapple Hawaiian. And the point there is that. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.880 You know, the oil folks want the oil folks want 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.960 less federal oversight. The UH transmission folks want more federal 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.919 oversight because they want the states overruled, because the states 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.080 are sometimes the ones who you know, who put up 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.719 roadblocks as two examples. And point is that it's easy 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.359 to say, yeah, we want permitting reform, but it's a 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:05.960 lot the same way it's easy to say, hey, let's 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:07.920 order pizza, but it's a lot harder to drill down 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:09.920 and say this is actually what it should look like 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.640 when you have lots of different groups that want different things. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.960 And the analyst, the analyst we talked to kind of 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.559 funny funny points. She said, the reform that we got 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.919 in the debt ceiling bill that just passed, she said, 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.080 it's just kind of little little, little, kind of some 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.560 little changes. She's like, that's like cheese pizza. So it's like, sure, 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.280 no one's gonna fight that one. But it's not like real, big, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:29.200 meaningful reform. 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.479 You know, what's divisive is Hawaiian pizza. There's people that like, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.200 that is not pizza, Josh. It's like, you know, sacrilege 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:37.520 that you would do that to pizza. 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:38.960 Pizza is intense. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.800 And my wife is from here in New York City, 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.000 I'm from I'm from Alaska. There's a pizza place up 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.000 there that does you know they do the chicken tie, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.520 they do the euro pizza. She's like, I don't know 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.040 what this is, but this is not pizza. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.640 Yeah, but cheese pizza. Everybody can get behind cheese pizza. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.200 It is a universal love language. But even the word reform, 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.359 in permitting even the word that is a divisive word. 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:02.600 Right. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:03.560 Yeah. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.000 Well, my co my co writer, The Great Tender Louis 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:08.600 was kind of as we were as we're going over 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.320 the story, she was kind of like, you know, you like, 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.480 maybe call it an overhaul, maybe call it you know, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.960 because reform is even that word is subjective, you know, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.520 with some groups saying well we're not reforming it, we're 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.240 tweaking around the edges or we're overhauling. So yeah, you're 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.480 you're right as we as we move forward and get 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.440 into the real nitty gritty of how do we fix 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:26.920 this system? 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:28.200 How do we streamline the system? 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:29.760 How do we make it so that this country can 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.080 move forward and build all these things that people want. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.560 How do we do that in a way, in a 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:37.160 way that works. That's really hard to do. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:40.360 All right, I'm just going to tell you, first of all, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.600 I'm starving right now, and I will go for any 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.880 kind of pizza. But having said that, in your story, 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.760 like you talk about, there are you know, the government 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.280 has put requirements out there. We talk about net zero 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.400 by twenty fifty, right, there's requirements on companies on the 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.160 country to like move ahead get these projects done, especially 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.640 when it comes to cleaner energy. So I mean the 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.600 pressures on what are the changes that are likely to 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.960 happen or you know, and that are being called for. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:10.480 Just I mean, the main point would be some of 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.760 the main points that people talked about would be. 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.200 Streamlining the environmental reviews. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.600 So instead of having you know, one federal agency doing 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.120 a long federal a long environmental review on the front end, 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.000 and then another agency starting another one at the back end, 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:29.400 but just doing one uh, you know, one comprehensive environmental 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.040 review and you know, so that'd be one to to 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.640 lop off of a couple of years. Another issue that's 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.080 come up is UH is UH you know, judicial review 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.080 is the courts, which is that some of these projects 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:41.400 they can get hung up in the courts, you know, 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.040 because you have you have groups that will file lawsuits saying, 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.800 you know, this this project goes too close to UH two, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:53.120 goes too close to these waterways, it violates sections of 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.760 the of the Clean of the Clean Water Act, so 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:57.959 it shouldn't be built for that reason. And then the 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.839 whole project goes into the court, the developers tearing their 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.720 hair out, you know, inflation's driving up the cost of 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:03.240 the project. 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.760 They're not making any money, their money is sitting around. 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.560 And then it's you know, before a federal judge and 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.120 they're talking about, you know, whether or not the gas 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.720 pipeline or the transmission line is too close to some 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:18.480 protected water with so another reform or overhaul, depending on 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.960 how you want to call it. Another another tweak that 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.960 some people would want to make would be to limit 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.400 the power limit limit limit how how deep into the 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:31.400 process the courts get. But overall, all of the reforms 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:36.120 or fixes or overhauls would be about streamlining and making 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:37.880 faster the process. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.800 So we're gonna have this inflation Reduction Act that comes 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.640 into play. Here, is this gonna help or hurt or 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:47.400 hurt everything? 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:48.000 Josh? 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.040 Because there's a lot of money that's going to be 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:51.960 slashing around, right. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:53.880 So that's that's one of the points that came out 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:55.680 that was important in our reporting is we kind of 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:59.520 wanted to ask, well, so is would permit reform help 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:00.560 clean and more? 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.480 Or what it held fossil fuels more? 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.199 You know, because we talked to some fossil groups and 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.199 they're sort of saying, well, yeah, we want to build 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.720 we want to build gas pipelines that we can export LNG. 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.320 We want to you know, American liquefined natural gas, you know, 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:14.960 export it all over all over the world. But we 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:16.800 need to be able to build pipelines to get it 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:21.720 to ports, and that's being held up by permitting. But really, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.720 what our reporting showed and the people we talked to 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.160 is that the clean energy side of the LEDGER would 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.800 end up getting much bigger boost from a from an 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.080 over from an overall overall portap you know, fixed to 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:33.520 the system. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.800 We gotta we got to jump in. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.079 It's a great story to the upcoming new issue of 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.040 Bloomberg BusinessWeek, or thanks to Josh Saul and Jil Weber, 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:41.880 this is Bloomberg. 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.240 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.640 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:53.720 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.280 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.960 I know we've got another guest from Insight. I'm gonna 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:01.000 toss it over to you. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.400 Yeah, we do. Haley sax is here. 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.640 She's the founder and chief executive officer of Finance is 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:11.360 Cool And if you're a younger person, you may know 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:16.720 her as missus dow Jones because she is an Instagram influencer. 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.480 I guess, or is it TikTok or is it? Do 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.800 you go across all the platforms. 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:27.880 Matt, I am verse. I do any platform I like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.920 If there are eyeballs, Missus dow Jones is there. 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.200 And you have apparently a lot of eyeballs, right, I 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.920 heard Carolyn. I told me like seven hundred thousand people 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:36.480 follow you. 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:37.200 Is that correct? 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:38.680 Close to a million. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:43.120 Actually now all right, so yeah, but what do you 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.439 do for these people? Like you don't pick stocks, right, 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.840 You're not telling them to put all their money into 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:51.120 government bonds. 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.160 You're just trying to educate them financially. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.960 Well, we never learn about money math. So most people 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.760 enter adults and we're given our first paychecks and we 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.960 have no idea what to do with it. We make 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.640 decisions completely on emotion or whim and we lack the 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.400 actual insight to feel confident. So I am that ladder. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.520 I fill that gap. I create financial confidence in my 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.720 audience by teaching them. 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:24.880 But so what what do you teach them? 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:25.080 Like? 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.840 Oh? Everything? So we go over you didn't you don't 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:29.760 do you don't have. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:35.480 An MBA, or you don't have a CFA, or you 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:37.640 didn't study finance yourself, did you. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.480 I never was in the financial system, and I think 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.720 that is what allowed me to think outside the box 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.840 and create something that has never been done before. So 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.120 I use humor, I use pop culture, and it took 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.520 off really quickly because there's nothing really else in the 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:57.360 space like that. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.200 Carol. Let me bring you in from from Orlando. 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.080 Haley. Hi, nice to be talking with you. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.400 I do feel like, it's interesting kind of a contrast 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.640 based on some of the conversations we've had at that 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.600 Matt has had over at Bloomberg Infestival, so that we're 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.280 having it purging insight with a lot of the registered 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:18.640 investment advisory world. 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:20.360 But tell us about this space. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.440 What was it about your own experience and the questions 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.840 that you had that have enabled you to kind of 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.640 create your media world and help others. So talk to 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.119 us a little bit about your own experience. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:39.240 My own experience is I never learned about money, and 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:45.120 I entered the workforce completely. I had no confidence. I 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.520 was so scared and I got my first job. I 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:52.079 was working for Lorne Michaels, and they asked me if I. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:53.280 Wanted a four to one k. 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.280 They were asking me about healthcare, and I nodded as 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.640 though I understood what they were saying, hoping that they 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.959 wouldn't fire me on the spot, and then quickly went 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.040 home that night to try and learn. And I was 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:07.640 put to sleep by what. 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:08.319 Was out there. 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.520 And look, I grew up watching you know, the Kardashians, 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:17.319 and loving Beyonce and like these fun I love entertainment, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.400 and I didn't understand why in order to learn about money. 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.920 It couldn't be lively, it couldn't be exciting, And so 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:28.920 I started to teach myself and I posted my lessons 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.920 that I was using to you know, just gain knowledge 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.920 on my own time online and literally within weeks it 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.800 took off. So it was very very fast. 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:41.320 Well, so talk to us too. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.480 And Matt makes a good point because when you're dealing 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.800 with people's money and it's an interesting week where there's 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.160 you know, crypto is kind of under siege from the SEC, 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.680 it's very easy for investors, you know, young or old, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.440 to be pulled into things that maybe could be questionable. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.840 I'm not necessarily saying that's the case of crypto, but 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.280 I'm just saying in general, so what is it that 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.440 you how you get. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.400 Your exactly right? 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.360 So I'm just curious what you lean on in terms 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.840 of getting your information to make sure that it's really 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.280 sound and solid for the folks that pop on your website. 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.000 Oh, I mean, my information comes from the top sources 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.240 like we're using. Of course, we're using Bloomberg, We're using 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.840 all the top publications. But I'm also not covering topical 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:32.440 financial events unless they're relating to a bigger lesson, Like, 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.240 I'm all about building long term wealth. I'm just trying 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.600 to get people to invest the money in the roth 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.240 IRA and you know, save twenty percent, make sure they 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.240 have an emergency fund, avoid high interest rate debt. And 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.720 if you want to take it further and start, you know, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.360 investing in individual stocks and things like that, that's great. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.640 But I would never preach that because how often do 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.400 individual stocks outperform an index fund? 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.240 Right, So it's not this is what I was trying 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.240 to clarify. So you're not giving an investment advice. No, no, no, 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.040 What you're trying to do is make people financially aware 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.280 so that they can seek out their own investment advice. 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.440 Yeah, I want exactly That's exactly it. Like I look, 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.000 I give you the knowledge, it's up to you to 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.280 take action. I'm never going to tell you to invest 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.440 in something, but i am going to tell you that 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:23.360 you need to invest. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.400 It's amazing that to me that you have a million followers, 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.840 not because I don't think you can go get a 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:34.320 million followers, but because of the idea that people care enough. 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.680 No, no, that's not in all the case. 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.600 I'm just thinking if my kind of the stereotype in 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.440 my head is that someone who goes on Twitter or 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.840 spends a lot of time on Instagram wants to see 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.760 the Kardashians and Beyonce and does not want to hear 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:50.440 the word four oh one k. 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.880 Right, So that's what I think is really interesting. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:54.840 Well, I mean, I'm sitting right in front of you. You 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.440 don't think that I'm giving Beyonce and Kardashian like that's 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:03.000 sart of my charm. I know, I am like glamorous 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.359 and fun, but I'm also really smart about money, and 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:06.240 I want you to be too. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.240 I just think, you know, you're so right that kids 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.080 aren't taught about this. Yeah, and a lot of people, 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.520 even who work at Bloomberg. For years, I didn't invest 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.760 in my forem okay, even though I worked here. It 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.120 took Carol telling me to do it, you know, ten 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.720 years into my career for me to like figure out 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:24.359 how to do that. 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.840 So what do you hear about financial education? 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.879 What do you hear about because there's just a lack 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:32.920 of it and we need to change that. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:37.760 Right, I mean truly, whenever I'm you know, doing events, 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.119 I will have the audience raise their hands. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:41.520 Who here has you know? 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.800 Was taught about money, and maybe one or two hands 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.719 will go up. It is true, it's an epidemic. No 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.680 one understands their finances and it's something that we deal 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.240 with every day, and it becomes this really emotional thing. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.240 It's not that the it's. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.199 Not that the meat and potatoes is hard. It's not 0:17:58.240 --> 0:17:59.920 that creating a budget is hard. It's not that I 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.320 investing your fo O and K is hard. But especially women, 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.600 we have so much shame around it. But why would 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.760 we have shame around something that we were never taught? 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.520 Like do you have do you have shame about not 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:11.840 understanding Italian? 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.440 You know, and I don't understand exactly. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.359 I guess I could tell you didn't speak Italian. 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.600 So yeah, talk to us about the women portion of it, 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:25.600 because I know that you focus, I mean more specifically 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:30.240 on girls and young women who I guess what they're 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:35.520 they're maybe teachers, think they need homec rather than you know, 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:37.880 financial economics. 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.400 Well, I mean, of course, finance is a very male 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.760 dominated space and so can feel very intimidating. And women 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.399 are in the past have really abdicated their financial power, 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.200 and I'm all about having them take that financial power 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.600 back because look, even if you are married, say to 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.000 a man who is taking care of the finances. Statistics 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.879 women outlive men. So even if you are okay, I 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:05.639 don't have to deal with this. I've figured out a 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.080 way out. Eventually you're going to have to. So let 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.080 me give you the tools so that you know how. 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.639 I have to say, I've been just playing around with 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:19.200 your website and it's really entertaining, you know, in terms 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.639 of how you pull on you know, pull on pop 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.600 culture over the years to get people to look at 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.639 things like their four oh one K or think about 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.280 you know, don't waste your time on money instead, you know, 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:32.200