WEBVTT - Wealth Wednesday: Dr. C.B Claiborne, the First Black Player @ Duke University 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.440 What's up? His way up with Angela. He so excited 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.280 for this conversation, for this Wealth Wednesday. I got my partner, 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:06.480 Stacy Tisday here. 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.440 Happy Wealth Wednesdays everybody, and we are balling today. 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:11.240 We are balling big time in. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.720 An historic way and just absolutely honored to have the 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.840 iconic legendary doctor C. B. 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:22.400 Claiborne, who was Duke's first basketball player with us black 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.960 Black Flah. Yeah, not the first one. And he did 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:27.680 not come alone. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.400 He came with doctor Javier Wallace, who was an historian, 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:34.680 professor and creator of the documentary CB Power to the Player, 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.199 which we're going to be talking about today. And Fumi 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.960 Agunro who is the co producer and co director and 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.800 she's also an Emmy nominated film director. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.440 So we are Wealth Wednesdays is stylin today. 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.920 Hey listen, we got the whole crew. Has so many questions. 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:49.720 First of all, each of you could have your own 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.040 segment on your own, but we're just excited to have 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.360 you here. I had a chance to watch the documentary 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.520 and I know part of what we went is for 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.440 people to bring this documentary into their institutions and just 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:02.120 spread the word. 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:02.480 Right. 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.920 Of course, one hundred percent. That's the big idea the 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.280 way that it exists right now. We're welcome in schools, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:14.119 educational institutions, entities, people that are interested to reach out. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.240 So you can see the screening excuse me, see the 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.400 short form. And the big goal is to make a 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.520 feature link filming, So that's what we're aiming for, but 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.000 most definitely people can bring it in. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.319 And just to back up where this came from. So 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.800 howvier you're at Duke. Obviously y'all out there, and no, 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.720 Duke is quite a basketball school and none of the 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.520 play got you. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:33.119 That's it. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:35.319 Duke is either you love Duke and you hate Duke. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:36.039 It's really no in. 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.320 Between, right And you were teaching and none of them 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.840 and I know there's players, basketball players in your class 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:43.200 and none of them knew who C. B. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.400 Claiborne was. What did that moment do for you? 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.840 It really ignited something in me and I remember it 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.960 almost like it was yesterday. It was the first class 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.880 I ever taught at Duke. And walked through the door. 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:59.160 Derek Lively, who's seven foot play got drafted by the 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.720 Dallas Mavericks, walked through the door. Tyreeche Proctor walked through 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.080 the door. Jeremy Roach walks through the door, Derek Whitehead 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.160 walks through the door. Mark Mitchell. Five black, five black 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.840 men's basketball player at Duke, and we're supposed to be 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.240 learning about black Latin Americans in sport, but I just 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.520 learned about CBE Claiborne's story. And when they walked in 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.720 they sat down, I was like, what y'all know about 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.600 CV crickets crickets And I'm like, no, this isn't right, 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.280 this isn't right, because I knew at that moment that 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.360 all five of those young men who happened to be 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.359 black that were playing big time at Duke basketball were 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.600 benefiting from the labor of the sacrifices of CB Claiborn. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.040 And so the next week I just hit doctor clay 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:41.560 Worn up and I asked him to jump in on 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.080 zoom and he came into the class on zoom and 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.040 it was It just ignited something in me and I'll 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:48.840 never forget because I saw them. They did a Day 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.160 in the Life Mark Mitchell, and his next episode on 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.320 his Day in the Life, he was in the car 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.760 driving with Tyreek's and he was like, I just learned 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.000 about CB Clayborne today bet y'all don't know who that is. 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:00.000 And I'm like, okay, we did. 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.960 Some Yeah, awesome that to CB claiborne. 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.600 You had the opportunity to play, and Duke was not 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.840 your first choice when you decided to go there, right right, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.200 And so talk to me about making that decision, because 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.160 that's a big one to be the first black player 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.440 on a team when they weren't even giving scholarships. And 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.639 I have to imagine as young as you were, you 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.200 couldn't even anticipate the type of things that would happen 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:25.640 because it's unprecedented. 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.240 Yes, yes, so thanks so much for having us. You know, 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.440 when I think back to nineteen sixty five, I went 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.280 to a black high school, you know, and I had 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.520 a great coach who had gone to Hampton Institute, and 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.440 he started when we were in junior high school taking 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.800 us to see the CIAA games. There was a Thursday 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.120 where all the schools used to go, and Coach Allen 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.160 had already introduced me to the coach of A and T, 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:58.200 the coach of Winston Sale the legendary Big House games. 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.200 You know, she went there, she got excited, yes, yes. 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.560 And so I thought my future was set, you know, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.720 I was going to go to A and T or 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.640 Winston Sale little more, one of the schools in the 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:13.760 CI Double A and my teammate, the captain of the 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.400 team the year before me, had gone to A and T. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.599 So I was leaning towards going to A and T 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:21.080 and playing for cal Urban. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.839 Wow, we're gonna unpack all of that, and just a moment, 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.840 just saying with the film for just a moment for me. 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.279 When you heard about the story, what made you say 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:33.560 this has to be a film? 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.000 Well, I remember Hobbyer called me. I was in LA 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.960 editing and he told me, you know, do you know 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.320 who doctor Claiborne is? And I said, no, I don't. 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.719 And once he told me who he was, I immediately wanted 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.880 to help bring this story to life because I always 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:54.600 say doctor Claiborne is a dynamic person. He's very unique, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:58.240 valigraatorian of his high school, top of his class, went 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:02.599 to Duke for engine and then also the first black 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.560 athlete on the basketball team. Like I wanted to tell 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:07.719 the story. 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.440 Doctor Clayman before you, if we even think about Duke 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.880 in college, you were such a like part of the 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.120 expression badass in high school. You got to meet the 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.080 President of the United States. Tell everybody else smart you 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:19.960 are well. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:25.200 So in those days, the Presidential scholars program had just started. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.080 I think we were the second class maybe, And so 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:32.200 they would to choose two people from each state to 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.200 be Presidential Scholars and go meet the president. And I 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.360 was one of the people chosen from Virginia in nineteen 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.719 sixty five. I got to go meet President Johnson. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.320 Go ahead, he's not telling the host I know. He's not. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.800 The test that you had to take to be awarded. 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.440 He took it while going to ditch the actual test, 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.240 didn't study for it, and he got caught up in 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.280 the hallway by one of his guidance counselors and win 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.760 it and did attest and then became a scholar, and. 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.159 You were class president, and you were in the National 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:11.440 Honor Society all that. What's interesting is colleges like Duke. 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.640 Universities like Duke, they used to try to keep black 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:19.480 players out by raising academic standards. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:20.840 And Duke wasn't this. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.599 Hey, we want to have the first black basketball player. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.680 It was your total picture that made them look at you. 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.640 Yeah, the ACC had set a nine hundred on your 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:37.640 college board as a limit to get into the conference 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.320 to get into school, and they had done that on 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.719 purpose because a lot of the guys who were really 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.359 good players didn't have a nine. Now that sounds really 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.480 low today, but back in nineteen sixty five without all 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.440 the studies and taking it two or three times, nine 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.720 hundred was a decent score right. 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.600 Well, And in the documentary one of the things that 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.839 you say that really stayed with me. Okay, So now 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.520 you go, you're at Duke and you say that one 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.440 of the pathways of making change in the South during 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:12.760 the sixties was athletics, So you weren't You ended up 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.480 being so much more than a basketball player. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:15.400 But was that your intention? 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:21.680 Well, I don't think it was my intention, but there 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.800 was no choice. I mean I grew up in Danville. 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.960 Doctor King referred to Danville the same way he referred 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.480 to Birmingham. It was one of the worst places in 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.120 the South. So Bloody Monday was also about Danville, Virginia. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.920 A lot of my classmates were actually injured in that demonstration. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.560 So I had been exposed to this growing up, and 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.600 there was really no choice. I mean, if you were black, 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.560 you had to stand up for black kinds of things. 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.320 And then I had all these teachers who had all 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.400 gone to HBCU schools who are also saying, well, you know, 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.640 this is what you do. So it wasn't like I 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.240 made a choice, you know, it was just what I did. 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.679 Said, tell me about yeah, tell me about the decision though, because, 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.200 like you said, you had a lot of options. And 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.520 part of it was also, they did give you a scholarship, right, 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.200 Oh they didn't. I thought you said they did give 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:14.960 you a scholarship. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.920 Well, I eventually got what they call a grant and 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.040 aid okay, but they would not give me a basketball 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.640 scholarship at Duke at the time. Although you know, starting 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.800 in my junior year, this this test that Javier talks 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.960 about me taking, I already had scholarships to college in 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.920 my junior year, so I could have left school then. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.400 But we decided, and it wasn't just me, but a 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.480 lot of us decided to stay and play our senior 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.200 year for coach Allen. Although we could have gone to 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.360 college in our junior year and you. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.920 Had options, but your community really pushed you to go 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:51.880 to Duke, and especially when you just what you just 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.760 told us about their history, why did they want to. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:55.440 Do that to you? 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.959 Well, coach Benny Dix had gone to North Carolina Central 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:06.280 in Durham and played there along with Sam Jones, who 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.360 was also on the team at that time, so he 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:13.760 had ultimate credentials. Now, it's an interesting story. I met 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.319 coach Dix not playing basketball. We played against them every year, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.080 but I met him because my family kept borders and 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.200 Coach Dix was dating one of the women that stayed 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.320 with my aunt. So yeah, so he was actually kind 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.160 of like a father figure. You know. He would advise me, 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.440 give me quarters to go to the store, to get 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:34.880 me out of the living room so they could have 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.760 it by themselves and things like that. 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.080 As they're watching the documentary too, we have a chance 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:40.960 to see that. I mean, when they show the team, 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.160 it's just white, white, white, white, white, white white. But 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.160 I want to ask you, how are your teammates? How 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.480 did they treat you? Because you did have people you 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.040 bonded with, but what are some things that happened like 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:53.320 that you could discuss. 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:58.120 At that time, my teammates, believe it or not, by 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.520 and large, were really good. You know, we didn't have 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:06.360 any issues. Now, every time I walked on that court, 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:08.680 four of the guys walked on the court with me 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.640 who were white. And so when we'd go into the 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.040 Deep South, I mean, we had to play freshman ball. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:21.800 So we played Alabama, we played South Carolina, we played Clemson, 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.479 and every time we walked into a gym, the Confederate 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.360 flags were flying, Dixie was playing. And I think to 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.640 some degree it shot them more than me because they 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.640 were from Indiana, they were from Chicago, they were basically 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.800 from the north and the west Pennsylvania. But they hadn't 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:47.079 been exposed to this kind of overt kind of racism, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.520 and so I think we did bond because of that, 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:56.960 and they certainly experienced, you know what I was experiencing 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.559 on the court, you know, for the first time personally. 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.559 I want to ask you because as a figure skater 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.040 and upstate New York, I had that overt racist experience 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.280 daily as a young kid, and I wonder what did 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.360 it do to you psychologically and emotionally. 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.520 Well, I survived, whereas a lot of the guys who 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:20.280 came south to integrate the ACC had a hard time. 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.360 I mean, nowhere Toddman from New York came down, you know, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.440 Charlie Scott came down, and so it was tough for 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.240 them because they hadn't exactly experienced that before. But I 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.080 grew up in Danville, so this was not anything that 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.360 I hadn't seen. Now, there were some times I was 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.040 on the court I heard people yell things that I 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.120 actually was embarrased. I mean, their kids were there, their 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:48.640 wives were there, and these guys were shocked. But I 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:53.440 had heard it before. You know, our general reaction to 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.559 when somebody says something racist was yo, mama, And so 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.560 it didn't It's been me out of shape as much 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:07.040 as it been some of them. Psychologically, I guess I 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:12.120 expected more, and over time that took a toll. But 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.560 I really was able to adjust to it a lot 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.640 more than some of the other guys, and I got 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.480 to you know, I came in sixty five. There were 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.800 only two other guys playing in sixty five. There were 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.679 two guys at Maryland. One was a junior college transfer 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.800 and another guy had come. He was on the varsity 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:37.640 that same time. So we were the ones that were 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.680 getting the brunt of all of this. But Maryland we 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.360 had to play freshman ball. Maryland didn't go in to 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:51.160 the Deep South, so they're freshman teams. You know, maybe 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.439 played the university of Virginia, but they weren't playing Alabama 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.240 and places like that, and so as a freshman any 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.360 place of the varsity he played, I played. I mean, 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.720 I remember one particular game in Alabama where I walked 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.760 into the gym. There was not another black person in 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:14.520 the gym, not even a janitor, right, and so crazy. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:20.040 Yeah, imagine that, and look at how basketball is sport. 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.440 And I know the feeling you're describing because you were 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.240 older and you had a team, and I just remember 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.680 being little and I was away from my parents and 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.880 just a judge came up to me one time and 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.360 just said, have you ever in your life seen little 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:32.280 black girls. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:32.440 On the ice? 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.000 Is because you're not supposed to skate, and you're just 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.480 like in shock, you know, you know, It's just an 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.160 awesome feeling. And I'm glad to see how you responded 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.600 to that with everything. A producer note before we continue 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.559 with your story, Fumi, there's so much to him. I'm 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.600 really curious when you're sitting in the editing room, you're too, Javier. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.559 What are the things that happened that you said, Okay, 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:56.880 this has to stay in this. 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:04.120 Well, Angela, you mentioned seeing that picture of the basketball team, 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.280 and so at that point of the film, he's talking 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.079 about his decision to make it to Duke and how 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.680 the community really backed him and that it wasn't just 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.679 your decision, it was the decision of the community that 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.880 really helped you. And so my focus on the film 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.920 was really telling that key part of the story because 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:26.800 there's so much you can talk about. And we had 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.080 trouble actually when we were looking at all the footage 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.040 because he's just the dynamic person. We can talk about 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.360 how the community really helped you. We can talk about 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.240 how you actually played baseball as well. There's just so 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.600 many different elements. So I had to stay on track. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.600 But when we developed the feature length film, we're going 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.200 to dive into more of the different aspects of his life. 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:52.280 And I want to quickly say, for me, not necessarily 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.240 what had to stay. It was also thinking about what 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.200 didn't need to be in there, okay, because just what 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.360 doctor claim when it's saying now over the years of 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.000 knowing him, he expressed that, you know, some of the 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.960 things that he heard say to him made him embarrassed. 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.360 He would never want to repeat again. And so I 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.760 had a non black viewer view the film and they said, 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:15.800 surely he would have witnessed a lynching. I'm like, what 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:17.480 kind of question is that? And so at that moment, 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.760 it was like who needs to see that violence? Like 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:25.040 who needs to really understand how deep of a trauma 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.400 that was? And how do we also protect the person 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.600 that is still living with that trauma? 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:30.800 Now? 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.360 Like do we need to repeat all those things, like 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:38.400 because certain people don't need to have such a visual 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.320 example of what he's describing to understand. Being the only 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.360 black person to walking to a gym in nineteen sixty 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.400 six in Alabama in itself was enough. And they're singing 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.880 Dixie Waven Confederate Flax. Why do I need to tell 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.520 you exactly what the person said? And so we also 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.400 were thinking about what doesn't need to be said to 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.880 preserve the humanity of the person while still trying to 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.200 produce a film that gives people that same idea of 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:03.160 what was going on. 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.640 Lucky for you, there's so much to his story. So 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.840 we didn't just get to duke and play basketball. You 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:15.240 made some changes, He made some changes. Let's talk about 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:15.960 that a little bit. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.320 Well, So to put this in context, I don't think 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.360 we've talked about this before. We were doing a lot of. 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:28.440 It's always. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.640 We were doing a lot of self education at Duke. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.640 We made a demand for Black studies, right, well, there 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:45.480 was no Black studies. I remember when the autobiography of 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.400 Malcolm came out, you know, my roommate and I every 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.960 moment we got we were reading that, trying to finish 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:57.640 the autobiography, you know, Eldred's later sol on Ice Stokely, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:02.520 Black Power, I mean before the Mayflower. So we read 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.480 all of these books as students, but they weren't part 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:09.960 of our curriculum. And so later yes, when we formulated 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.040 some demands, we said, we need African American studies. We 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.440 need a chance for everybody to be exposed to this 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.960 material that we had reached out for ourselves. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.000 You organized and protested. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.600 Well, it started just what do we have to do 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.760 to have black studies or to have a course that 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.720 represents us? And that was a couple of years before 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.320 it actually grew to the level of a protest. We 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.120 had tried other avenues before then. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.119 Right, I want to ask you this just to change 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.520 gears a little, because you know, as an athlete you 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.040 also get the ladies, and I want to I'm just wondering, 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.119 Doctor Claiborne, what was that aspect of it like though? 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.359 Just because you're the first and only black man on 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.480 the team at Duke, So how was that type of response? 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:00.879 Because I think we all know that when men, you know, 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.960 that's part of what it is, are flocking to the athletes. 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:05.040 But what was that like for you? 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.480 So there was no shortage of women around? 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:08.760 Okay? 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.560 However, you know, I came along in the Black power era, 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.320 and so we tended to push white women away. To 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.600 be honest, it wasn't cool to be seen around campus 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.280 with a white woman in those days. And North Carolina 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:33.840 Central was right across town, right, and so eleven of 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.800 my classmates were at North Carolina Centy, I mean, from 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.479 my senior year had gone to North Carolina Central. So 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.720 there was no shortage of women. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.800 Okay, I'm not gonna call that a digression. 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.240 When it comes because I didn't think about I went 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.320 to a very white high school, and I do remember 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.960 some of the black athletes experience like some not so 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.359 great things from you know, from yeah, yeah, from the 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:04.800 white women. 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.160 It's a whole, that's a whole, that's a whole other show. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.840 And we will a conversation we should definitely have. I 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.800 don't want you to downplay your protests and what you did. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.520 You actually had a sit in that the National Guard 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.120 came to. Can you tell us about that and what 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:21.240 you guys were fighting for? 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.200 And it had a name, right. 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.800 So that was the Allen Building takeover. And by this 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.320 time the Black Students Association had grown and had gotten 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.800 behind those demands. We had tried to ask the President 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:43.480 for hearing. We weren't getting anywhere, so we said, why 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:48.560 don't we take over the building and demand the president 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.640 to talk to us about that. It's President Doug Knight 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.879 at the time, and this was not too long after Columbia. 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.639 You know, we're in New York to talk about that, 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.320 and they had done the same thing, the students at Columbia. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:01.840 We were kind of the first ones to do it 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:05.120 in the South. But we did go into the building, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:06.919 and we went in early in the morning. We had 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.480 a plan, and we locked the doors from the inside 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.000 and put a chain around him so nobody could get in. 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.719 And it wasn't long before the National Guard was called. 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.360 And so in the film they captured the footage with 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.920 tear gas and you know, the shields the masks, batons 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.679 and all of that. They eventually broke into the building, 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:27.080 you know, and. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:28.720 You guys had escaped though. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:35.359 Yes, there was a community organizer in Durham named Howard Fuller, 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.520 that was his name at that time. But he came 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:44.480 in across the roof from the next door building and 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.080 then upstairs window and came down and said, the Guard 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.119 is a massing they're going to break into here. You 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.800 guys better leave, And so everybody found a different way 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.000 out and I went out the same way Howard had 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.200 come in, you know, through a third floor window, across 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.600 the roof and down through the psychology building which was 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.399 next door. And I was actually standing in the crowd 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.760 and watching the National Guard inside through the windows, you know, 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.239 going around breaking things, which we later got you know, 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:18.240 a travel for. 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.760 They said, you guys were breaking things and this Alan 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.600 building takeover was a peaceful protest. So interesting that they 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:29.240 would call the National Guard and instead of addressing real. 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.760 Issues, we're like reading in protests, like. 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.399