1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:01,200 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 2: I am embraced and internalized music in a very detailed way, 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: involuntary from a very young age. From nineteen fifty four Elvis' 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 2: first records. I just found that I could reproduce every 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 2: detail of every song that I liked after I heard 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: it a few times, and really that helped a lot. 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, the podcast where 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: we showcase the inside stories of the people behind the music. 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Buzz Night is your host, and today he talks with 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: the mastermind producer behind many of the hit sounds of 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: rock music from the seventies and eighties. Tom Mormon was 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: the producer of acts like Motley krue Chee, Trek, Twisted, Sister, Poison, 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: and much more. He's the author of a new book, 14 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: Turn It Up. Making Hit Records in the Glory Days 15 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: of Rock Music. Join Buzz Night with Tom Morman on 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: So, Tom, thanks for being on a virtual edition of 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 3: Taking a Walk. I appreciate it. What prepared you to 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 3: deal with creatives who border on the lunatic fringe of society? 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 2: Well, you know the lunacy is it turned out to 21 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 2: be mostly outside the studio. When these guys get into 22 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: the studio. It's a Sometimes it's a little intimidating, but 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: it's a serious workplace for them most of the time. 24 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: Some you know, are treated more lightly than others. They 25 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 2: don't know the meaning of the phrase I'm in training. 26 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: You know, people people like Vince Neil don't say, girls, 27 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: it's midnight and I'm singing tomorrow, so I think I 28 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 2: have to go to bed. 29 00:01:58,560 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 4: I just don't do that. 30 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: But generally we managed to crank out some pretty good records, 31 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 2: even with the nutty guys, you know, Motley Cruz specifically, 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 2: I didn't have a big problem with them. 33 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 3: So we had Jack Douglas on the podcast and he 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 3: told me how he got into, you know, the career 35 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: of producing, just being around a studio his entire life. 36 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 3: How did you get into this business? 37 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: Well, the business I got very lucky. I made a 38 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 2: very bad choice of a profession or job when I. 39 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 4: Left business school. 40 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: I'm the only guy who got an MBA who doesn't 41 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: know how to read a balance sheet or barely balance 42 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: a check book. 43 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 4: I went into advertising. I hated it. 44 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: After a year, I wrote to Clive Davis and you know. 45 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 4: I had a job. It was a good job. I 46 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 4: had a degree. 47 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: I was a musician and I love Rocket Roll and 48 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 2: he you know, that was enough. 49 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 4: To get me over there to have some interviews. 50 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: And I finally got to Clive and he hired me 51 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: on the spot and he told me that I should 52 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: be assistant to the director of an R at Epic Records. 53 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 4: I didn't even know what ANR. 54 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: Was, but I didn't know what a producer was. When 55 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: I finally was able to sign whom I wanted to, 56 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: I went into the studio quite a bit to protect 57 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: my investment, and I made so many suggestions. I actually 58 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: horned in that they gave me co producer credit and 59 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: there I was. After that, my first solo production was 60 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: in color by cheap Trick, and I was off. I 61 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: did twelve gold or platinum records for Epic before I left, 62 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: and they were all by artists that I signed, So 63 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: it was great. 64 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 3: So the world of A and R is really needing 65 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 3: to have a tremendous ear obviously, right, How were you 66 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 3: trained on having a great ear? 67 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 4: It just happened, you know. 68 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: I am embraced and internalized music in a very detailed way, involuntary, 69 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: you know, from a very young age, from nineteen fifty four, 70 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: the Elvis' first records, and I just found that I 71 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: could reproduce every detail of every song that I liked 72 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: after I heard it a few times. And really that 73 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: helped a lot in later years, producing and helping musicians 74 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 2: to get their performances down pretty quickly without having to 75 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:18,679 Speaker 2: repeat the performance you know, many many times and maybe 76 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: get bored with it. It's memory, it's auditory memory. I 77 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: don't know if I can do it right now, but 78 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: I used to make a little money late in late 79 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: nights at bars by telling people that if they read 80 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: me the serial number off a dollar bill, I'd read 81 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: it to them backwards right away, and I made a 82 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: lot of money that way. If I look at it, 83 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: i'd look at it and I see it like everybody else. 84 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: If I hear it, I can brand it on my brain. 85 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: I can see it in my thought just the way 86 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 2: I was born. I did not have any professional training. 87 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: In fact, I can't read or write music. So I 88 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: did teach myself how to play the guitar, and I 89 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: did all the percussion on all my records. 90 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 4: That's it. 91 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: Who are some of the producers you emulated as you 92 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: were coming up the ranks. 93 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: Mainly The first one was Glynn John's when I found 94 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: out what a producer did, and I discovered that I 95 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: used to listen a lot to the first Eagles album 96 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: and Who's Next, and I saw that he had done 97 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 2: both of them. And one was electric, bombastic, a little careless. 98 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 4: Maybe you know, just just. 99 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: Do it, and although it was led by Pete Townsend 100 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: who was quite meticulous. But and the other one, the Eagles, 101 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: was you know, mainly acoustic and. 102 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 4: Perfect. I mean, they they would. 103 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 2: The two albums were at the opposite ends of the 104 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: musical spectrum. And I thought, well, this guy's good. I 105 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: want to do what I want to do what he does. 106 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: And Jack Douglas, who you know, who made Rocks by 107 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: Aerosmith one of the greatest American rock and roll albums, 108 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: And of course Matt Lang and Keith Olsen, and well 109 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: there was George Martin, and you know, it seemed to 110 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: me that this was the greatest job in the world, 111 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: sitting in a studio listening to music that you like 112 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: and trying to make it better, and it was just fantastic. 113 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: So was there a brotherhood of producers that served as 114 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: a therapeutic way to share trials and tribulations. 115 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, like a support group. No, not that I was 116 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: aware of. You know, we knew about each other. I think, 117 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: you know, maybe ten or fifteen producers that I was 118 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: aware of, and I appreciated all the different things that 119 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 2: they did, and they did do different things, and they approached. 120 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 4: Recording in individual ways. 121 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: But no, I didn't spend very much time at all 122 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: with other producers, and we weren't in competition, but we 123 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: weren't in a support group. 124 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: Would that have helped? 125 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, with everything but the studio. You know, I'm 126 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: having I'm having trouble with my family, with my wife 127 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: and I you know, I don't know, I'm taking too 128 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 2: many drugs and whatever. But they certainly wouldn't have you know, 129 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: nobody would have benefited from I think hearing how others 130 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: made records. 131 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 3: So was writing the book therapeutic for you? 132 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 4: Well? 133 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: I needed, really, honestly and frankly, to get all this 134 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: stuff down before I forgot it. I'm having you know, 135 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: I'm approaching eighty and I'm having memory issues, mostly short term. 136 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: But everything I could remember, most of what I remembered is. 137 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 4: In the book. You know, there are moments that you 138 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 4: remember and then there are. 139 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: Other things that people ask me about and I say, oh, 140 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: I forgot about that. But I loved writing the book. 141 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: I didn't write it like a pro. I only wrote 142 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 2: for fifteen or twenty minutes at a time, and sometimes 143 00:09:59,120 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: I wouldn't. 144 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 4: Write for am month. 145 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: I remember something, or i'd hear a song, it triggered 146 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 2: a memory, and I would go to my desk and 147 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: write it down. And when I had enough of those 148 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: memories written down, I would slot them into, you know, 149 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: the text chronologically, and eventually it formed the shape. 150 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 4: Of a book. 151 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: And the easiest part of the whole process was actually 152 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: getting an agent and getting a publisher. I thought it 153 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 2: was going to take months and months, and it only 154 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: took a few days. 155 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 4: So I love the book. People seem to love the book. 156 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: They call it an easy read, and many honestly say 157 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: that they couldn't put it down. They'll start it and 158 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: then they'll finish it the next day. And that's music 159 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: to my ears. 160 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 3: Have you heard from any of the subject matter of 161 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 3: the book? 162 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 4: Only only Ted, Only Ted Nugent. 163 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 2: And I want to stress that I had a long 164 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 2: professional relationship with Ted, and there were no politics involved. 165 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: He and I are far apart in our political perspectives. 166 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 2: But I enjoyed working with. 167 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 4: Him a lot, to the horror of my friends. 168 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 2: And we still talk, we still communicate. He still sends 169 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:46,719 Speaker 2: me his classic style, you know material. He's even a 170 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: little farther out than he was back then. So what 171 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: was I'm sorry, what was the original question? 172 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 4: You asked? 173 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: Well, you heard from Ted? I said, you heard, yeah, 174 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 3: maydea this subject matter? 175 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I didn't. Actually, I mean I sent 176 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: ted a book. I did not send anyone else a 177 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: book or a couple of people who who were not 178 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 2: very famous. You know, Shannon Rubikam and George Merrill, who 179 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: are Boy Meets Girl and who wrote songs for Whitney Houston. 180 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 2: I did one very a major departure for me. An 181 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: album with them was more middle of the road. So 182 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: I sent them books and I sent ted a book, 183 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: and that was it. Ted wrote wrote back right away, 184 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 2: loved it. 185 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: Are you able to have healthy discourse with Ted? Still? 186 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 4: Yes? About music? 187 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 2: No? 188 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 3: About about politics? 189 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 4: No? Not really. You know, I watch him online and 190 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 4: I see he's very uh. 191 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: He's got a very fast mouth and a very fast brain, 192 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 2: and he does make sense. He's got his talking points 193 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: together but I disagree with almost everything he says. He 194 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 2: you know, and he says it in a way that 195 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: is really tough for me to accept. 196 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 4: But I spent time with him. He did. 197 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: He did open up a different different perspectives on different things, 198 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: like hunting in the way he feels about killing animals 199 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: and using all of the animal for different things. And 200 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: you know, he once asked me. I said I could 201 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: never kill an animal, and he said, you eat You 202 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: eat cheeseburgers, right, And he said, you just have somebody 203 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 2: else kill. 204 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 4: Him for you. And in an in human way. 205 00:13:54,559 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 2: He talks sense about certain things that I. 206 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 4: Felt differently about, So I can talk with him. 207 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: He's not as extreme when when he talks to me, 208 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: and he knows I'm a registered Democrat. 209 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 4: So go, We'll be. 210 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: Right back with more of the Taking a Walk Podcast. 211 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 212 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 3: Do you think what Nicky six has written about post 213 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,479 Speaker 3: you working with him, do you feel that he's being authentic? 214 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: No, you know, some of the stuff is authentic. The 215 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: heroin how are you supposed to believe a guy who 216 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: wrote a book while he was, you know, a junkie. 217 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: I there's one part in the Heroin Diaries, and then 218 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: there's another there's other stuff in The Dirt. 219 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 4: That that's just fiction. And and you know, I like Nikki, 220 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 4: he's very talented. 221 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: I just think that, you know, a lot of musicians 222 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 2: are very reluctant to share credit for their success with 223 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: anyone else, especially De Snyder. You know, there was one 224 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: part of one book, either The Heroin Diaries or The Dirt, 225 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: when he stated that I was so distracted from the 226 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: work that he had to produce all of Vince's vocals 227 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: complete fiction, I mean total. I don't understand why they 228 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: do this, but that's what they do. I mean, it 229 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: was done by De Snyder. It was done by him, 230 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: It was done by George Lynch, especially George Lynch, and 231 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: then others are really fine. The interesting thing about about 232 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: artists and bands is that the ones I enjoy most 233 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: and the ones that have the most integrity for me 234 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: are the ones that didn't make it. And you know, 235 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: I think there's some requirement if you want a successful band, 236 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: you have to prioritize success over everything else, including honesty 237 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: and friendship. You know, it's tough. There's a lot of 238 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: historical revision. I always said that they love you when 239 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 2: you know the records are selling millions of copies, and 240 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: twenty years. 241 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 4: Later you sucked. 242 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: You just weren't You weren't paying attention, You didn't get 243 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: there sound right. Part of it has to do with 244 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: the fact that recording technology has improved so much, so 245 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: some of the older records forty years earlier, from now, 246 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: forty years ago, you know, they may have sounded a 247 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: little thin next to what we're doing today. 248 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 3: So they complained, wasn't there some accusation that you were 249 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 3: on the phone all the time during sessions? 250 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 4: Sure? And and I never was. I would never do that. 251 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you're you're supposed to be in charge. 252 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: They give you a couple of hundred thousand dollars back 253 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: then and say go make us a hit, and you'd 254 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 2: be in You'd be a complete fool not to be 255 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: one hundred percent involved in just about every decision that 256 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 2: had to be made. I mean, who would talk on 257 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: the phone. I mean if I talked on the phone, 258 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: all the music would have to stop. You know, it 259 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: just doesn't make any sense at all. You go into 260 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: the studio, you they would take the messages at the 261 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 2: front desk because you wouldn't want to be disturbed, and 262 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 2: they would hand deliver the messages to your control room. 263 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 2: And you know, maybe if there was something really important 264 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: when we took a break, which we did, I'd make 265 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: a phone call. 266 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 4: But I never. 267 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 2: I never got on the phone while we were recording. 268 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 2: That's absurd, you know, it's just like it's just like D. 269 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: Snyder once said in a in an interview that I 270 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 2: read online. When I came in, I said to him, 271 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 2: I'm only. 272 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 4: In this for the money. 273 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: I mean, what reasonably intelligent person would say that to 274 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: a band that hired him. No, it's just ridiculous. And 275 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 2: then he said, and he was getting an eight point 276 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 2: royalty eight points. No one in the history of recorded 277 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: music ever got eight points. You know, the top for 278 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: all good producers was four percent. 279 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 4: So that's what you live with, you know. 280 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 2: Right now, I'm far enough away from it so I 281 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 2: don't care anymore. 282 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 4: But I was pretty pissed when when D. 283 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 2: Snyder started trash talking me the minute he walked out 284 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: of the studio where he had been all friendly and backslapping. 285 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 4: So, yeah, yes, that is correct. 286 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 2: There is a lot of historical revision, and you know, 287 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,479 Speaker 2: I kind of don't know why, but I have to 288 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 2: assume that it's because they don't want to share the credit. 289 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 4: You know, this guy with they're not doing that well, 290 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 4: and then. 291 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: This guy with a lot of golden platinum records comes along, 292 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 2: very successful guy and people, you know, they have a 293 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: big hit, you know, like Twiss's sister did, and they're 294 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 2: afraid that people will say, oh, yeah, well, you know, 295 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: they've been around for. 296 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 4: A long time. 297 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: But then Werman came and of course he made a 298 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: hit record with them. That's what happens. They get pissed. 299 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 3: Who was the easiest to work with and who was 300 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 3: the most difficult. 301 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 2: The most difficult was probably DOCN. George and Don would 302 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: not even work in the same studio at the same time. 303 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: You know, George would be in the afternoon. Don would 304 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: come in tonight to sing, and then George pitched to 305 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 2: fit and I walked. That's the only album I did 306 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: not finish. 307 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 4: I did not mix. 308 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 2: I had finished the basically finished the recording, and then 309 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: I left and I just didn't enjoy the process, even 310 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: though the album went platinum eventually. And you know, the 311 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 2: easiest there are a number of people who were pleasure 312 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: to work with. Were wonderful people, and they are all 313 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 2: of them. Were the ones that did not make it, 314 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: the ones that most people haven't heard of, like the producers, 315 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 2: like Mother's Finest, like Striper George and Shannon Boy Meet's Girl. 316 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 4: Just tremendous, and Cheap Print was pretty good too. 317 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 3: So is there a session that you wish came together 318 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 3: that never came together? And is there a session you 319 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 3: wish never came together? 320 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 4: Yeah? 321 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 2: Well, the docin one is probably the one that I 322 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 2: didn't need. And for ones that I wanted to come together, well, 323 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 2: when you say come together, do you mean was it 324 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 2: more pleasant than it actually was? Or are you talking 325 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 2: about band acts that I never got to work with 326 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: that I may have wanted to yes, correct, uh huh. Well, 327 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: most of those acts didn't really need a producer because 328 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 2: they were that good, you know. The ones that come 329 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 2: to mind, the who you know? And could I have 330 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 2: done any better than Pete Townsend? I don't think so. 331 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: The Eagles they could have produced themselves, you know, and 332 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 2: they basically did. They had Simsic as it As who 333 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 2: started out as an engineer, and Tom Petty would have 334 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: been a really good one for me. But with them too, 335 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 2: you know, they could have produced their own records. 336 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 4: You know, I didn't. 337 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: Most of the bands, you know, except for maybe Tom 338 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: Petty didn't need anybody didn't need a producer usually, you know, 339 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 2: you see the producer's role as helping a band with 340 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 2: potential actually realize that potential and become a hit. It was. 341 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: It was just all about taking a band that was 342 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: close and putting them over the top. 343 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 3: For me, you know, they're doing a redo. I'm sure 344 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 3: you've heard of Spinal Tap. 345 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, a new spinal Tap. 346 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 3: Right, would you consider being a creative advisor from your 347 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 3: vast experience? 348 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 4: Sure, I was interviewed by Spinal Tap over at Universal. 349 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: They they assembled a group of us three or four 350 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 2: producers and musicians. Among them was Steve Lucather, who I 351 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: think wound up doing a lot on that album. But 352 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: it was a great treat to sit with Michael McKeon 353 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: and Harry Shearer. I was very honored to be considered 354 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 2: for that. I would love to do that. Sure, that 355 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 2: would have been a great one. And you know, I 356 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: also almost I actually passed on doing the second Blues 357 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: Brothers record. 358 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 4: Because I was just too. 359 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 2: Scared of the difficulty of dealing with those people and 360 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: mainly John and you know, having to put a band together. 361 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: I was skittish about putting bands together. I didn't know 362 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 2: many session people. I hadn't worked with session pros, so 363 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 2: I really preferred to work with self contained acts. 364 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 4: I was much more comfortable in that situation. 365 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 3: Had you worked with many, you know, session players rather 366 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 3: than you know, full bands. 367 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 4: I'm really didn't do very much of that at all. 368 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 2: I wanted to never have to substitute any player with 369 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 2: a ringer, you know, with a real pro. I did 370 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 2: hire two guitarists over the over the history of over 371 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 2: the fifty two albums that I did, I hired two 372 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 2: guitarists to do one song each, you know, out of 373 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: the five hundred or so songs that I recorded. 374 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 4: Lukeather did. 375 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: A nice slow song on a cheap trick record, and 376 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 2: Jay Grayden did. 377 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 4: I want you to want me the studio version I 378 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 4: would hire. 379 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 2: I hired a cellist for alf Viederzan by cheap trick, 380 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: you know. I think at one point I did hire 381 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 2: Paulino da Costa, who is a percussionist, to play the 382 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 2: congress because I couldn't do that. 383 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 4: So there were four or five. 384 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: You know professional musician session guys that I did use, 385 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 2: but everybody else. I never substituted anyone for an entire album. 386 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 2: I know there were people who did that. I mean, 387 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: they would say, you can just you know, go home 388 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 2: for a while, and we're going to use this drummer 389 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: instead or this, you know, this guitar player. 390 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 4: I didn't do that. Everyone thinks that the Poison guys 391 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 4: didn't do all the work on their album. They did, 392 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 4: you know. 393 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 2: And and there's been this recent silly rumor that I've 394 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: been asked about a lot that Nikki six didn't play 395 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 2: bass on those records, and I was there for every 396 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: note he did, you know. 397 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 4: I don't know how these rumors. 398 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: Start, But to answer your question, I did very little 399 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 2: hiring of session guys. 400 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 3: In closing tom. When you see so many bands still 401 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 3: out touring, and you know, robustly touring, especially you know, 402 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 3: the last few years, do you think some of them really, 403 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 3: you know, should just stop. 404 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 4: Yes, I do. 405 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: I have this theory that rock stars really don't know 406 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 2: how to downsize, you know, and adjust their lifestyle. So 407 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 2: I think a lot of them actually would like to 408 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: have some more money to to maintain their their wonderful lifestyle, 409 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: and and they do that people seem to really enjoy. 410 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 2: I mean, cheap Trick is still on the road. Look 411 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: at Rio fifty years Rio Speedwagon. But there are some 412 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: who could probably hang it up. It's very hard for 413 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 2: these I would think, you know, if I was an 414 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 2: artist who was big forty years ago and I could 415 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 2: sell meet and greet tickets for fifteen hundred dollars each, 416 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 2: I'd be pretty tempted to go on tour as well. 417 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 2: You know, some of them, like the Modley Prue situation 418 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 2: was pretty interesting when they called a press conference and 419 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: signed a contract that said we are definitely breaking up 420 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: and we will never play together again. And I guess 421 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 2: it was about two years and they had this second 422 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: reunion tour, the second final go round. You know, Molly 423 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 2: Hatchet is still on the road, but there are no 424 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: members left. There are no original members left. They're all dead, 425 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 2: which is really sad. But they do good business. You know, 426 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: they're out there banging away. She prick us out there 427 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: with Rick Nielsen's son on drums. You know, everyone has 428 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 2: at least one replacement. Some are very good. Daltrey was 429 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: great at Tanglewood, you know, and he had Billy Idol 430 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: doing some vocals. Yeah. I think it's nice to give 431 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: people in my generation an opportunity to go rock out to. 432 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 4: Their favorite, you know, their favorite bands. 433 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: My daughter just just paid five hundred bucks to see 434 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 2: Madonna Madonna's I guess she's sixty now or something like that. Anyway, 435 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: she said it was fabulous, So so that was nice. 436 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 2: There are some who can do it, some others who can't. 437 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: All right now, one last last question, Yes, sir, any 438 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 3: rock star debauchery stories that you've never told that you 439 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 3: want to tell here? 440 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 4: No, honestly none. As I said before, most of. 441 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 2: Their leude lasivius or criminal behavior was outside the studio, 442 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 2: and I did not hang with my artists outside the studio. 443 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 4: There was one. 444 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 2: That I did briefly mention in the book with Jean 445 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: and Paul Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley. When I had 446 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 2: I was at the session with Wicked Lester, which was 447 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 2: their band before Kiss and I had signed Wicked Lester 448 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 2: to Epic. We were in the studio at Electric Lady 449 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 2: on Eighth Street, down and down in the village, and 450 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 2: they disappeared for a bit and I went looking for 451 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: them and then the other studio. There were two studios, 452 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: at least in two rooms. Electric Lady and I went 453 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 2: into this dark room and I heard noises coming from 454 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 2: the drum booth. And there was a drum booth with 455 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 2: you know, glaston and I went over there and I 456 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 2: looked in and I saw two figures writhing on the 457 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:22,959 Speaker 2: floor with a third who was female. There was something 458 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 2: going on in there. I did not linger, but that 459 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 2: was probably the you know, the most rock star thing 460 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 2: that happened. I didn't see anything else I was. I 461 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: was offered favors by some people I worked with who 462 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 2: almost you know, offered their girlfriends or friends who were 463 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: girls to do things for me, and I. 464 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 4: Refused. 465 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 2: It was pretty amazing, but no, it's you know, the 466 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: book is really light on sex and heavy on drugs 467 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 2: and rock and roll. 468 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 4: Tom. 469 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing the stories and your music and 470 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 3: the book. Congratulations on appreciate you being on Taking a Walk. 471 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: This was fun, great questions, and thank you very much 472 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 2: for having me. 473 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 474 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 475 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 476 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, 477 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.