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Speaker 1: com slash Next Picture Show.

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past

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Speaker 3: and the past.

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Speaker 4: You believe that someone out of the past can enter

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Speaker 4: and take possession of a.

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Speaker 3: Living We may be through with the past, but the

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Speaker 3: past is not through with us.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Next Picture Show, a movie that we've

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Speaker 1: podcast devoted to, a classic film and how it shaped

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Speaker 1: our thoughts on recent release. I'm Keith Tipps here with Scott.

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Speaker 5: Tobias, Tasha Robinson, and Genevieve Koski.

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Speaker 1: As we record this, it's getting warmer outside, but that's

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Speaker 1: not going to stand in the way of our snowyest

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Speaker 1: pairing to date, unless I'm forgetting something. Did we ever

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Speaker 1: do the thing I stationed Zebra Happy Feet?

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Speaker 3: Any of those?

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Speaker 6: We we did do the thing I thought we did,

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Speaker 6: and we've done some other kind of snowy pairings. Holdovers

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Speaker 6: is a pretty snowy movie, Mickey seventeen is pretty snowy,

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Speaker 6: But I don't In looking back at all of our pairings,

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Speaker 6: I could not find anything that was snowy on both

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Speaker 6: sides of the pairings, So I think this still holds

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Speaker 6: the title there nice well.

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Speaker 1: Putting aside these two movies, what movie has made you

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Speaker 1: feel really cold because of the way of its set in?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like the classic answer here is

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Speaker 5: Doctor Chavago, just the you know, the movie that feels coldest.

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Speaker 5: But when I saw this question in the script, I

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Speaker 5: just immediately thought, Like earlier today, I finished Netflix's Charlie's

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Speaker 5: thrown in action movie Apex, which starts with like a

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Speaker 5: ten fifteen minute sequence with two people climbing the troll

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Speaker 5: wall in Norway, and I don't know, man, I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's all CG pretty much. The climbing is grueling, but

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Speaker 5: there's a giant snowstorm going on and they're climbing this

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Speaker 5: like black rock. They're clearly a million miles up in

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Speaker 5: the middle of a snowstorm, and Charlie's throne is wearing

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Speaker 5: like little footy socks, like you can see her ankles.

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Speaker 5: They both have bare hands, which I guess you would

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Speaker 5: need for rock climbing. But I just I spent most

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Speaker 5: of that sequence where you're supposed to be like fearing

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Speaker 5: for their life in limb, just thinking put on a sweater,

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Speaker 5: Shirley's throne, I'm cold.

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Speaker 6: My mind went to Groundhog Day, which is maybe not

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Speaker 6: the like temperature wise or snowfall wise, the winteriest movie,

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Speaker 6: but you know, because of its premise and it taking

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Speaker 6: place in February, the shortest month that feels the longest

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Speaker 6: is in the winter, it just like really captures that feeling,

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Speaker 6: you know, especially if you live in well, I know

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Speaker 6: Groundhog Day takes place in Pennsylvania, but you know close

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Speaker 6: enough to Midwest, you know similar weather patterns, if you've

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Speaker 6: lived somewhere where February is like that, just it really

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Speaker 6: captures that feeling of this is never going to end.

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Speaker 6: This is my life.

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Speaker 1: Now, Genevie, do you know where it was filmed?

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Speaker 6: I feel like you're going to tell me somewhere in Illinois, because.

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Speaker 1: It's it's Recetock, Illinois, which now has its own competing

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Speaker 1: Pasatati Phil So like they're doing their own Groundhog Day thing,

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Speaker 1: which seems a little suspect to me.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, that that absolutely checks out as a as

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Speaker 6: a Midwest February to me.

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Speaker 5: I'd eventually come up that he was in that time

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Speaker 5: loop for like forty years or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's in the film, but I'm sure

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Speaker 1: people have done the math for this sort of thing.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it's that they've done the math. I

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Speaker 5: think it's that they asked the director and he admitted

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Speaker 5: to it. But wow, Genevieve, I am horrified. I truly

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Speaker 5: never thought about what it would be like to go

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Speaker 5: through that period of time, never getting to spring. That

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Speaker 5: is some Narnia nonsense right there.

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Speaker 6: And you know, to go back to Keith's initial prompt

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Speaker 6: of you know, if this is our Snowy is pairing today,

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Speaker 6: we did do Groundhog Day as part of a pairing,

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Speaker 6: but the other half of that pairing was Palm Springs.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, yeah, I looked it up. Apparently Harold Reimas

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Speaker 5: says that the original script had Bill Maury's character in

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Speaker 5: the time loop for ten thousand years, and he eventually

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Speaker 5: decided that was unrealistic and made it a mere ten years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my pick for this is pretty easy. And I

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Speaker 3: actually was able to see this on a big screen

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Speaker 3: and a big somewhat Chili theater. And that's derez Uzula,

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Speaker 3: the Kara Karasyle film from nineteen seventy five, and there's

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Speaker 3: a sequence it involves a lot of exploration in sort

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Speaker 3: of northeast Russia, and there's a sequence in the film

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Speaker 3: where it's they're out in some in the middle of

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Speaker 3: like a step Russia step or something, and it's cold

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Speaker 3: and the sun's gone down and there's no shelter and

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Speaker 3: they're trying to survive, and it's just an unbelievably visceral sequence.

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Speaker 3: It's something you definitely feel in your bones watching that

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Speaker 3: part of the movie, so that when I think of

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Speaker 3: cold in cinema, it's definitely dares it was lost.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 5: There's a sequence in a care Curus I was Dreams

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Speaker 5: that struck me the same way. That just feels a

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Speaker 5: frigid beyond belief.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just there's another Herald Ramis movie, The Ice Harvest,

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Speaker 1: which was, yeah, one of my picks, so like, he's

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Speaker 1: kind of good at that kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: Chilly weather, chilly hearts for everybody.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, very underrated film too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I'm a fan of that one for sure.

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Speaker 1: And my other like really basic the submission would have

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Speaker 1: been The Shining Shinty in general, but obviously the home

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Speaker 1: stretch of that movie it's very very chilly.

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Speaker 5: Hey, you know what else is a really really chilly

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Speaker 5: movie that stuck with me. Coun we go The Treasure Hunter.

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Speaker 5: You remember that film?

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Speaker 1: You know, I have I always wanted to see it.

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Speaker 1: I have not seen it, but I have a feeling

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Speaker 1: it's kind of relevant to one of the films we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about, so we may as well get

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Speaker 1: to that. Jenny, can you tell us about our pairing?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 6: Venturing again into action movie territory, Bob Odenkirk stars and Normal,

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Speaker 6: playing Sheriff Ulysses, the interim sheriff of Normal, a small

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Speaker 6: town in the snowy north of Minnesota. It's a quiet

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Speaker 6: place except when it's not, and the more time Ulysses

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Speaker 6: spends there, the louder. It gets normal reminded us of

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Speaker 6: another crime thriller set largely in the snowy pocket of Minnesota,

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Speaker 6: Joel and Ethan Cohen's nineteen ninety six film Fargo, in

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Speaker 6: which Francis McDormand plays Marge Gnderson, the police chief of Brainerd, Minnesota,

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Speaker 6: whose investigation into some murders on the outskirts of town

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Speaker 6: sets her on a path on covering an even bigger,

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Speaker 6: stranger crime.

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Speaker 1: So in this episode, we'll head north to discuss one

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Speaker 1: crime movie. Then we'll just kind of stick around the

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Speaker 1: general vicinity to talk about a second. We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back after the break.

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Speaker 6: You want your own wife kidnapped?

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Speaker 7: Dad?

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Speaker 5: He's real well off, so I want to just ask

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Speaker 5: him for the money.

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Speaker 6: Wait, it's Terry.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what to do. It's something pod geez.

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Speaker 5: It's terrible.

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Speaker 3: But in a place called Fogo.

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Speaker 7: Mister Londegarde, I'm a police officer, I'm not Brainerd investigating

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Speaker 7: some mouthfeas and.

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Speaker 2: Anything can happen.

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Speaker 6: How's Jeane my wife? Well?

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Speaker 3: You respect, Jerry. I don't want you to mucking this up.

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Speaker 3: What the heck do you mean? Nor Jeane? No money?

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Speaker 5: Who are you superstants the change Jerry, protect you mean, Jerry.

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Speaker 6: Here's the second one.

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Speaker 3: I want you to tell me what these fellows look like.

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Speaker 6: Well, the little guy, he was kind of funny.

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Speaker 5: Look him. Can you be any more specific? He wasn't circumcised. Jeez,

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Speaker 5: that's a good thief.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: From the creators of Barton Fake, I'm collaborating here and there.

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Speaker 6: There's no band raising Arizona.

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Speaker 3: What do you fellas? Got yourself mixed up in b geez?

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Speaker 5: You're there in thirty minutes where I find you, Jerry

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Speaker 5: and I shoot you, and I shoot you my friend sho.

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Speaker 5: Will you let your own flesh bad?

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Speaker 6: You got it?

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Speaker 3: You should shoot your other guy? Oh geez? Fargo.

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Speaker 1: On April fourth, nineteen ninety six, the editorial page of

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Speaker 1: the Brainert Dispatch offered some thoughts on Fargo, a film

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Speaker 1: in which the city of Brainert figures prominently. They weren't

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Speaker 1: that kind. Here's how the unsigned editorial opens, fifty years

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Speaker 1: from now, what will people think when they see Fargo?

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Speaker 1: The question can't be avoided because the Cohen Brothers movie,

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Speaker 1: largely said in Brainert won't go away. Dedicated film collectors

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Speaker 1: will ensure that at least a few prints will always

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Speaker 1: be in existence. Then, after a few words about our

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Speaker 1: recently deceased local film collector, who had argued that even

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Speaker 1: bad movies can serve its windows to the past, the

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Speaker 1: piece offers a laundry list of Fargo's more shocking moments.

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Speaker 1: You can probably guess them if you've seen the film

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Speaker 1: The bound, blindfolded woman running through the cold, the shootings,

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Speaker 1: the beatings, and of course, the wood Chipper. Then the

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Speaker 1: editorial goes on treasures like these abound in Fargo. It

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Speaker 1: would be a shame if something happened to prevent this

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Speaker 1: cultural icon from being preserved forever, such as a film

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Speaker 1: vault fire where the last remaining copy is stored. Anybody

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Speaker 1: got a match. The Brainer writer clearly did not care

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Speaker 1: for the film, Yet it's both curious in telling that

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Speaker 1: the editorial's objections stop there. They could just as easily

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Speaker 1: be objecting to the content of say, Broken Arrow or

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Speaker 1: The Rock, or some other violent nineteen ninety six film.

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Speaker 1: There's not a word about the thick accents or the

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Speaker 1: Minnesota nice behavior that values courtesy and politeness above all,

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Speaker 1: even when investigating a triple homicide. One possible explanation Brainer

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Speaker 1: comes off pretty well in Fargo. Sure, its restaurants are

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Speaker 1: filled with unappealing buffet food and the town is short

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Speaker 1: on sophisticates, but it seems like a fine place to live,

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Speaker 1: filled with nice people. But even this under sells it.

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Speaker 1: In Fargo, brainerd serves as an oasis of virtue in

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Speaker 1: a corrupt world. By contrast, let's consider the place that

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Speaker 1: lends its name to the movie. Fargo's title is one

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Speaker 1: of the more curious features of the film. Fargo, North

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Speaker 1: Dakota only directly figures into the movie's opening scene when

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Speaker 1: Jerry Lindergard played by William H. Macy, travels to Fargo

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Speaker 1: to hire criminals Carl Showalter, Steve Bushimi and Gare Grimsruod

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Speaker 1: Peter Stormer to abduct his wife as part of an elaborate,

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Speaker 1: if ultimately flawed kidnapping scheme. In the world of Fargo,

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Speaker 1: the film Fargo the city is the place where you

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Speaker 1: go to find bad people who commit crimes. Fargo consequently

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Speaker 1: becomes a kind of shorthand for evil, and by using

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Speaker 1: the city's name as a title, Fargo the film becomes

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Speaker 1: about how evil's influence can be found everywhere, even in

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Speaker 1: a place like Brainerd. I say this with all apologies

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Speaker 1: to the real Fargo, which I'm sure is a perfectly

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Speaker 1: wonderful city and I'd love to visit it. The world

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Speaker 1: outside Brainerd is dangerous in ways of the world within

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Speaker 1: the city limits is not. That's in no small part

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Speaker 1: because police Chief Marge Conderson played by Francis McDorman, serves

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Speaker 1: as a smart, responsible stewart and an effective detective without

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Speaker 1: ever breaking the Minnesota nice's code. When one of Marge's

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Speaker 1: deputies makes a dopey mistake by not recognizing the shorthand

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Speaker 1: for dealer plates, he receives a polite correction that's become

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Speaker 1: one of the film's most quoted lines. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: I agree with you one hundred percent on your police

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Speaker 1: work there, lou. Marge also notes this, I'd be very

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Speaker 1: surprised if our suspect was from Brainerd. Such people are

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Speaker 1: from other places, which doesn't mean they could always be recognized.

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Speaker 1: Minnesota kN ice is pervasive throughout the world of Fargo.

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Speaker 1: Those who don't behave within its strictures can be counted

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Speaker 1: on one hand, and even exceptions like Carl and Gear

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Speaker 1: seem to have their reasons. Carl is clearly from a

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Speaker 1: different part of the country. Gear seems to have turned

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Speaker 1: his back on it and adopted a hateful taciturnity instead.

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Speaker 1: But Minnesota and ice can also be WEAPONI look at Jerry,

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Speaker 1: for instance. His smiles and accommoding nature make him the

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Speaker 1: last person anyone but a shrewd detective like Marge would suspect.

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Speaker 1: It gives him a shell he can hide behind, maybe

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Speaker 1: even from himself. When Jerry's plans unravel as people start

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Speaker 1: getting hurt, nobody seems more shocked than Jerry, and despite

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Speaker 1: the objection to the Brainerd Dispatch, Farniku's Heart a story

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Speaker 1: about virtue and morality in which Marge, a proud citizen

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Speaker 1: of Brainerd, serves as an exemplar of all that's good

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Speaker 1: and true about the place that made her. When in

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Speaker 1: the film's final stretch she questions Gare about his crimes

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Speaker 1: and how he could commit them for a little bit

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Speaker 1: of money, especially on such a beautiful day, she seems

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Speaker 1: truly shocked about the cruelty of the world into which

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Speaker 1: her child will soon be born. As the film ends

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Speaker 1: with Brainert once again free from murderous outsiders, Marge retreats

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Speaker 1: to the breadroom of her cozy brainert home, a place

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Speaker 1: offering shelter from all the cold outside. Will be back

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Speaker 1: to discuss the film after a short break. The Next

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Speaker 1: Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited. The all you

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Speaker 1: two trips to the movie theater. That's a sizable chunk

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Speaker 1: than that?

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Speaker 7: Did you look in a citation book?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Last vehicle E wrote and was a Tan Sierra at

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Speaker 4: two eighteen AM under a plate numbering for DLR. I

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Speaker 4: figured they stopped him or shot him before he could

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Speaker 4: finish filling out to tag number. So I got the

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Speaker 4: state looking for a Sierra with a tag starting DLR.

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Speaker 4: They don't got no match yet.

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Speaker 7: I'm not sure that I agree with you one hundred

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Speaker 7: percent on your please work there, Low. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 7: think that vehicle there probably had dealer plates DLR.

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Speaker 3: Ooh jeez, say Loo.

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Speaker 7: Do you hear the one about the guy I couldn't

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Speaker 7: afford personalized plate so we went and changed his name

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Speaker 7: to J three.

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Speaker 3: L to four or four.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good one.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I think

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Speaker 1: Fargo is one of the movies I've watched the most

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Speaker 1: over the years. There's probably been RoboCop in Peewee's Big Adventure.

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Speaker 1: What makes this film encourage repeat visits? Assuming I'm not alone.

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Speaker 3: In this, it is the film that I have watched

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Speaker 3: and written about the most, certainly written about the most

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Speaker 3: as a critic, every possible form you can imagine. It's

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Speaker 3: like Marge when she gets the designer dress in that

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Speaker 3: episode of The Simpsons and cuts it into every possible

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Speaker 3: iteration she can. Like, that is me I've done. I've

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Speaker 3: done one hundred word capsules. I've done a regular kind

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Speaker 3: of like video DVD review. I've done large essays. I've

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Speaker 3: had conversations. Keith and I recently did a commentary track

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Speaker 3: for The Reveal in which we did a full length

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Speaker 3: commentary on Fargo. I have discussed this movie a lot,

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Speaker 3: and in my my one of my normoist you know,

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Speaker 3: film critic opinions is that it's my favorite. I think

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Speaker 3: it's their best film. I love this movie. I think

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Speaker 3: it's kind of a perfect film, and I think one

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Speaker 3: of the reasons I keep returning to it is just

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Speaker 3: how satisfying it is and how in terms of just

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Speaker 3: you know, how all the pieces fit perfectly and in

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Speaker 3: the one piece that you that maybe you don't think

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Speaker 3: fits is actually the pivot point of the movie. And

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Speaker 3: speaking of course, of the the Mike and Gida scene,

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Speaker 3: there's just a lot, you know, the dialogue is wonderful,

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Speaker 3: the performances are great. Noir, which is already my favorite genre,

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Speaker 3: is transformed here into something quite unique and beautiful with

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Speaker 3: all all of the all of the snowy white. I

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Speaker 3: just think, you know, the score by Carter Burwell is

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Speaker 3: one of his most memorable bits. I think it's really funny,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's just an amazing film. So so

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Speaker 3: it's just a movie that I love to return to

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Speaker 3: and I love to get paid by multiple outlets to

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Speaker 3: to do so.

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Speaker 5: Well, I just gotta disagree with your film criticism work there.

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Speaker 5: I think people will return to this movie a lot

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Speaker 5: because they really just like here in Minnesota accents.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt, that's for sure, But.

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Speaker 6: To kind of ping up that, I think, like, you know,

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Speaker 6: a part of what makes this movie so watchful is

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Speaker 6: the structure of it, which is like both really tight

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Speaker 6: and also kind of unusual in that, you know, we

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Speaker 6: don't actually meet our supposed protagonist. Although actually the question

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Speaker 6: of who the protagonist of this movie is is, you know,

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Speaker 6: a complicated one to begin with. But of course I'm

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Speaker 6: talking about Marge Gunderson. You know, she doesn't show up

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Speaker 6: until a full third of the way into the film.

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Speaker 6: She's you know, it's a second act revelation, and just

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Speaker 6: like the first second, third act structure of this film

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Speaker 6: is just really nicely executed in a way that I

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Speaker 6: don't forget what happens in this movie, but it does

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Speaker 6: kind of feel each time like I'm re experiencing it

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Speaker 6: fresher than I would expect for as many times as

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Speaker 6: I've seen this movie. It's just like the pacing of

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Speaker 6: it is really satisfying, like it may all those parts

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Speaker 6: that you know are coming hit just the way they're

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Speaker 6: supposed to hit when they are supposed to hit.

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Speaker 5: You know, well, I am so tempted to keep the

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Speaker 5: accent up. My husband and I talked like that for

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Speaker 5: an hour after this rewatch.

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Speaker 1: To hear are subscribers like dropping off.

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Speaker 5: That's just dropping off or picking up? You know, who knows?

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Speaker 5: Maybe this is maybe this is what our podcast has

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Speaker 5: been needing all the whole time here, Like Pitha, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I think this is a good idea. Maybe I will

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Speaker 5: keep no, I won't. It's funny, Jenny, if I have

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Speaker 5: the same experience. It's almost like every time I rewatch it,

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Speaker 5: I go in with the movie in one shape in

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Speaker 5: my memory, and then the actual film turns out to

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Speaker 5: be a completely different shape. I always remember the plot

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Speaker 5: as being more complex than it is. I always remember

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Speaker 5: Margie showing up a lot earlier. I remember the pieces

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Speaker 5: fitting together very differently. I remember there being a lot

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Speaker 5: more filled in detail than we actually get about things

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Speaker 5: like Jerry's backstory and what the whole scheme is.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I had that exact same realization. I'm like, we

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Speaker 6: don't know why he's been puzzling all this money, do we.

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Speaker 6: We'd never find out or even.

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Speaker 5: Like the full details of his scheme. Like, I think

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Speaker 5: you can maybe into it that the whole scheme with

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Speaker 5: going to his father in law for a million dollars

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Speaker 5: in ransom is related to his his need question mark

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Speaker 5: desire for seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars for a

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Speaker 5: parking lot. You can also guess that maybe the parking

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Speaker 5: lot doesn't exist based on the numbers being way too

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Speaker 5: good and his reaction to how that whole scheme goes

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Speaker 5: down but that means he's trying to collect about two

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Speaker 5: million dollars and we don't know why. And you know, again,

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Speaker 5: we can guess he does not seem to be addicted

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Speaker 5: to very expensive drugs, so maybe a gambling addiction, but

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Speaker 5: who knows. And one of the things I guess this

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Speaker 5: movie every time I rewatch it, I find myself sort

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Speaker 5: of asking, is this kind of a perfect film class

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Speaker 5: or storytelling example of like exam what you really need

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Speaker 5: in a story to make it hold together? Because there

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Speaker 5: are a lot of things missing here that the standard

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Speaker 5: version of this story would have, and what you have

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Speaker 5: instead is all of these strange little quirks. Actually, I'm

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Speaker 5: in a way, I'm not astounded this Scott loves this

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Speaker 5: movie because it's terrific, But I am a little astounded

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Speaker 5: that he loves this movie because it's quirky and he

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Speaker 5: hates quirk. He's like allergic to quirk, and Margie is

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Speaker 5: just super quirky.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it always depends on the type

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Speaker 3: of quirk. I mean, I think this is I love

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Speaker 3: this movie, I mean, and I love like local Hero.

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Speaker 3: If you want to talk about you know, Bill Forsys's

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Speaker 3: brand of quirk, I could be pro quirk. I like

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Speaker 3: Wes Anderson. I'm just anti bad quirk and I'm anti

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Speaker 3: bad everything.

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Speaker 6: She's also really capable, and I think she uses that quirk,

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Speaker 6: she almost weaponizes it sometimes, or at least the niceness.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 6: One of my favorite little details is when Marge rolls

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Speaker 6: up to the scene with the three dead bodies and

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Speaker 6: the cop there has brought her coffee, and she acts

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Speaker 6: all delighted to have the coffee that he brought her,

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Speaker 6: but she never once drinks it. And then later when

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Speaker 6: they're getting in the car, we see her toss it aside. Yeah,

435
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 6: you know, like it's clearly very bad coffee, but she

436
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 6: would never say as much. You know, she would never

437
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 6: make a snarky comment about the coffee. She just throws

438
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 6: it away and keeps going. And there's all sorts of

439
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 6: little hints like that throughout the movie that Marge, you know,

440
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 6: uses her like I said, weaponizes her charm, you know,

441
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 6: the sitting down in Jerry's office so he can't tell

442
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 6: her to leave, and you know all that. She's a

443
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 6: quirky character, but she's not flighty.

444
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that opening scene doesn't. I think there's a lot

445
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: of things in that scene that establishes that she thinks

446
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: a lot of things that she's not saying out loud,

447
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: and I think that's that's sort of key to her character.

448
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: And the one thing I would love at the scene

449
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: at the end with she and Stormmare, which just gets

450
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: me right here. Every time I'm touching her part right now,

451
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: it's just like she just can't keep it in any longer.

452
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: She just she's so baffled by the evil that's so

453
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: close at hand, and her inability to understand that that

454
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: she sort of like has to say out loud SUTs

455
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: she would normally keep to herself.

456
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 3: I think that one of the things that I've really

457
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 3: gotten out of this movie. You talk about seeing new

458
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 3: things every time you watch it, et cetera. One of

459
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: the things that watching this film is often as I

460
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 3: have has done for me over time, has given me

461
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 3: a greater appreciation for Marge as a character. Specifically her

462
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 3: desire like an independent, you know, desire for something beyond

463
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 3: the life that she has is I think that you

464
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 3: can kind of get caught up in something like that

465
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: the end of the film, and which she means sincerely

466
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: when she's talking about it being a beautiful day and

467
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 3: her having this sense of all of these uncomprehendingly evil

468
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: things having happened, you know, over a little bit of money.

469
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: But at the same time, the wary you watch the film,

470
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 3: and I will certainly discuss this when we get to

471
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 3: the Mike Young he has seen, you know, the more

472
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 3: you you understand her as someone who has ambitions and

473
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: has desires that are a little bit penned in by

474
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: the situation that she's currently in, which which is idylicate

475
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: to a certain degree. I mean, she has a husband

476
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 3: that cares about her a great deal, and and and

477
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 3: that they have this little nest in which they're going

478
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,239
Speaker 3: to have bring a child into, and uh and all

479
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 3: that good stuff. There's a lot of comfort in that.

480
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I think her interest in

481
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: in this case and you know what happens to her

482
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: when she gets to the city, there's something more. There's

483
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 3: a there's an ambition there and kind of a very

484
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 3: subtle frustration with being stuck with you know, son of

485
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: a Gunderson or whatever his nickname is. You know, this

486
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: guy who who will sweetly give her, you know, bring

487
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: her arbies and give her a kiss, but also is

488
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 3: kind of a slobble and starting the car for which

489
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 3: is great, but also you know, he's getting Arby's sauce

490
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 3: at her cheek. I mean, there's got of you know,

491
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 3: and he's hawking up god knows what, you know when

492
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 3: he wakes up in the morning and there's something you know,

493
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 3: I mean obviously comfortably homey about that about it. But

494
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 3: at the same time you get just a little hint

495
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: that there's of dissatisfaction that kind of propels this movie

496
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: forward a little bit.

497
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 5: Oh wow, yeah, I don't think I see that at all.

498
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 7: There it is.

499
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 6: We didn't even make it twenty minutes in.

500
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 5: Well, well, now we realize that the true protagonist of

501
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 5: this podcast is my disagreements with Scott. I honestly Eileen

502
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 5: in the other direction, and I feel like maybe it's

503
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 5: deliberate that there's a not quite apacity to their relationship,

504
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 5: but there is sort of an ambiguous nature. I mean,

505
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 5: to me, Norman feels like a kind of weirdly selfish character,

506
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 5: or at least a character who's kind of off in

507
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 5: his own world. You know, he volunteers to get up

508
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 5: in the middle of a frigid night to make his

509
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 5: wife eggs, but he doesn't listen when she says, like

510
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 5: three or four times that she doesn't want eggs and

511
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 5: that he should just go back to sleep.

512
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: Well, that's being nice, though, that's what you do, you know,

513
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: you say please.

514
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 6: That feels like Midwestern communication to me.

515
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 5: You can interpret it how you like. I'm big into

516
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 5: consent in all things, including the middle of the night

517
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 5: egg making. But you know, she goes through this such

518
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 5: all this whole traumatic event and then comes home and

519
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 5: he wants to talk about the bird that he got

520
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 5: on a stamp. To me, there are hints that he's

521
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 5: kind of a bit often his own world, a bit

522
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 5: separated from her life. And I kind of feel like

523
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 5: the movie is telling you that she enjoys that she

524
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 5: doesn't want to take this work home, that she wants

525
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 5: this place to be someplace that she doesn't have to

526
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 5: think about what she sees on the job. Like her

527
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 5: gentle encouraging of him to be proud about the bird

528
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 5: that he got on merely on the three cent stamp

529
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 5: and not on a more expensive stamp, Like her kind

530
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 5: of gently jollying him along, is just such a sweet

531
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 5: portrayal of couple communication and the fact that we're spending

532
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 5: time on this rather than you know, any unpacking of

533
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 5: the the horrors that she's just seen. It's just a

534
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 5: really sweet little slice of domestic bliss. I I don't

535
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 5: see a dissatisfaction in her, though I could see maybe

536
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 5: finding it if you went looking for it. But I

537
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 5: think that's your dissatisfaction with with Norm and the way

538
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 5: he behaves more than hers.

539
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 3: No, I'm just saying it's a little bit. I'm not

540
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 3: saying it's it's overwhelming. I don't disagree with your take,

541
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 3: although I do is I disagree with the egg tech.

542
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: I think you're wrong about that. But the but the

543
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: But I don't see it Marge as this person who's

544
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: so dissatisfied that she's going to leave Norm at some point.

545
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 3: But there is that sense of confinement, and I think

546
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: it kind of the revelation for me, if we want

547
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 3: to jump ahead, is uh is when we were we

548
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 3: did this, had this when we discussed Fargo as a

549
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 3: movie of the week at the dissolve, and Keith wrote

550
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: about the Michiana guita scene that was that was kind

551
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: of what turned me around on my whole kind of

552
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: understanding of that scene and about and about March so

553
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 3: maybe Keith can be about that if we want to

554
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 3: just get this part of the conversation over with.

555
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a little arc in this movie

556
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: that March goes through where she jumps at the chance

557
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: to explore the world outside of Brader who are going

558
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: this trip to Minnesota. And on top of that, she

559
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: meets this man, Mike Nikita, an old high school friend

560
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: who lives there. And you'll note that she doesn't tell

561
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: Norm about this, and she does dress up for to

562
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: meet Mike. And I don't think in any way she's

563
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: going to cheat on Norm or to you know, she

564
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: wants to break out of the marriage. But I think,

565
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, just that she is pinned in where she is,

566
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: and I think she kind of wants this, you know,

567
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: this meeting to herself like a moment that's just her,

568
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: just her in the big city, reconnecting with an old friend.

569
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: Of course, this goes horribly awry for her when the

570
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: actual meal itself, when when Mike is revealed as someone

571
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: with some problems. But I do think that, you know,

572
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: I think there's one way I look at this movie

573
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: is the story of a woman who walks outside, you know,

574
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: perhaps is a little tired of the safety and comfort

575
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: of where she lives and the life she's created, walks

576
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: outside of it and ultimately kind of goes back to it.

577
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: It's it's not even like a retreat. It's more of

578
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: a confirmation that the life that she has created for

579
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: herself is a good one. And if you can create

580
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: this kind of shelter from the horrors of the world

581
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: and where people will roll into town and just murder

582
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: people for all for a little bit of money, you should.

583
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: You should, perhaps you know, treasure that.

584
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 5: For me, this may just be a gender thing, Like

585
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 5: I just don't see any reason whatsoever why she needs

586
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 5: to have an agenda or even really be thinking about

587
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 5: anything when it comes to dressing up a bit to

588
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,959
Speaker 5: see somebody that she hasn't seen a long time, who

589
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 5: she knows admires her. Like the touch of you know,

590
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 5: putting on a dress to see somebody that you haven't

591
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 5: seen in a long time, whose male and has shown

592
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 5: some interest in you just feels reflexive to me, just

593
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 5: like even if you have, you know, no comparative interest

594
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 5: in him, it's just it's expected. It's performing femininity. So

595
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 5: I guess I don't see as much significance to that.

596
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 5: But man, just like the choreography of that scene felt

597
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 5: so real to me, and in the same sort of

598
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 5: way that the her like dressing up for it felt

599
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 5: real to me. That moment where he goes to sit

600
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 5: on her side of the table and puts his arm

601
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 5: around her. I've literally had that happen to me, and

602
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 5: it feels just exactly that awkward. And the fact that

603
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 5: she's very nice about it and he seems almost more

604
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 5: flustered because she is so nice about it while telling

605
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 5: him in no uncertain terms, no, get your hand off

606
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 5: me and go back to the other side of the table.

607
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 5: It's amazing when a film can feel this heightened and

608
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 5: meetic and funny, and yet at the same time like

609
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 5: this relatable and true.

610
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 3: She's excited to hear from him when she when when

611
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: he calls her in the middle of the night, she

612
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 3: wears makeup. When she goes to see I.

613
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 5: See her as excited, I see her is baffled.

614
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 6: I think she goes to the Twin Cities like she

615
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 6: goes there for the case, but I think she also

616
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 6: goes there for this opportunity, and I fall like somewhere

617
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 6: in between. Tatasha and Keith as far as like how

618
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 6: nefarious I guess this this meetup, this meetup is, but

619
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 6: as far as not telling Norm about it, Yes, but

620
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 6: also Norm is in bed next to her when she

621
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 6: gets the call and is there for the whole conversation

622
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 6: with him and supposedly overheard it all, like he does

623
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 6: kind of like move around. You know, it's ambiguous what

624
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 6: he hears. So like I think there is maybe a

625
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 6: slight undercurrent of danger or testing limits, but within a

626
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 6: like a very controlled situation where she knows that Norm

627
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 6: would never actually get upset about this and she would

628
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 6: never actually do anything. She's got a huge pregnant belly

629
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 6: on her, you know, but you know, she's also in

630
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 6: the middle of this very danger laced case. And I

631
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 6: think the Mike Yanigita stuff does end up linking up

632
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 6: to the case itself when she kind of helps her

633
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 6: realize that she needs to go back and push Jerry,

634
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 6: you know, realizing how easily she had been lied to

635
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 6: by Mike, and you know, that helps that click for her.

636
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 6: So there's like a lot wrapped up in this whole meeting,

637
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 6: But I think like her impulse to do it is

638
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 6: not maybe not even clear for her, but just kind

639
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 6: of maybe wrapped up in the situation of you know,

640
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 6: very safe, cozy domesticity, and she's maybe not quite wanting

641
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 6: to like break out of it, but she is maybe

642
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 6: wanting to push against it a little bit and just

643
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 6: see what's there and.

644
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: What's what's out there. It's scary, right, yeah, it's it's

645
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: unpredictable and kind of potentially evil what uh, you know,

646
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: the world outside.

647
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 5: I just appreciate that while she's in the middle of

648
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 5: you know whatever, whatever tiny flirtation or whatever level of

649
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 5: the nefariousness this might be, it's still eminently practical, you know.

650
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 5: She she asks, where's a good restaurant, and then when

651
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 5: she's recommended the raticon hotels round, she's like, okay, but

652
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 5: is it reasonable?

653
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 6: Is it reasonable?

654
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: I love that, Yes, it's I mean, but you're right, Jedvy,

655
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 3: I think, I mean, I I agree with you fundamentally

656
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 3: on this. I don't know if we're about that far apart.

657
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any intention on Marge's part to

658
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: act on anything, you know, outside of her marriage like that.

659
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: But it is a chance to you know, play a

660
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 3: different role, to try something new, to do something kind

661
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: of exciting and outside of outside of her comfort zone.

662
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: And you know, even if it involves us kind of

663
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: you know, having a somewhat flirtatious meeting with an old

664
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 3: friend who lives in the city, that's enough. That's something

665
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: for her to look forward to. And and of course

666
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: you're right about the ultimate purpose of the scene really

667
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 3: in terms of moving the story forward, is the revelation

668
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 3: that what might the story Mike has told her is

669
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 3: not true and that she kind of has to re

670
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 3: examine the motives of others, in the capacity of others

671
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 3: to lie to her, and and that kind of it

672
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 3: is what propels the rest of the movie forward. It's

673
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 3: all great stuff. And it's also compact too. I mean,

674
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: you mentioned about how we don't meet Marge until half

675
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: an hour and in the movie or something like that,

676
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: and it reminds me a little bit of it.

677
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 6: I actually pause in it's exactly one third I did too, yeah, yeah, And.

678
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: It's like and of course you recall that that the

679
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 3: Cohen's played a similar structural trick with Raising Arizona, which

680
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: literally goes an entire reel before you see the titles,

681
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 3: like the real change from real one to reel two

682
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: is when it finally you finally get Raising Arizona to

683
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: the title coming on the screen. So it's a good, good,

684
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 3: solid twenty minutes. So they certainly like to play around

685
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 3: with structure.

686
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 6: That's said, And you know, we've been talking so much

687
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 6: about Marge and even Mikey Andigita, but is there an

688
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 6: argument to be made that Jerry is the protagonist of

689
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 6: this movie. We certainly spend more time with him.

690
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: And.

691
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, antihero, Yeah yeah, well, and that also.

692
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 6: Kind of mirror they're kind of mirror protagonists. Maybe him

693
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 6: him in Marge like again, kind of thinking of the

694
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 6: settled domesticity of Marge's life as a contrast point to

695
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 6: to Jerry's and sort of the the settledness that she

696
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 6: has compared to his striving, desperate striving, and where that's

697
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 6: gotten him. You know, they they are foils for each other.

698
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: But from the outside he has what she has too,

699
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: like even better, like a bigger house and more more

700
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: security in theory at.

701
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 5: Least, and a really sweet, loving spouse and a son.

702
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 5: You know, she's they're going to have a child soon.

703
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 5: But you know, he's he's got a son who seems

704
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 5: like a pretty nice kid, who definitely cares about his mother.

705
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: Accord.

706
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean he does. He does swear that that kid,

707
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 6: you know that's true, hangs out a McDonald's.

708
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 5: I don't know that's true after not finishing his perfectly

709
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 5: good meal.

710
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Jerry is a really fascinating character. There's

711
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: a quote, it's actually on the Wikipedia page. Ethan Cohen

712
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: said of the character, Jerry's a fascinating mix of the

713
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: completely ingenuous and the utterly deceitful. Yet he's also guileless.

714
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: Even though he set these horrible events in motion, he's

715
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: surprised when they go wrong. He really does seem all

716
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: that's all, that's true. Like he comes with this ultimately

717
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: horrible scheme to have his very nice wife kidnapped out

718
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: she'd have your mean wife kidnapped either. But but uh,

719
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: and then you know when things spire a out of control.

720
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: As much to talk to him as anyone else. It's

721
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: bizarre in a way.

722
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 3: It was supposed to be a no rough stuff type

723
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 3: of deal, rough type of deal. But then of course

724
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 3: you have amazing sequence when he comes home just to

725
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 3: you know, discover everything that he's put in emotion and

726
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: then practices, you know, giving his father in law, you know,

727
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 3: sounding distressed to his father in law on the phone

728
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: in a kind of convincing way amazing scene scene there.

729
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 6: Well, and the button of it where he has to

730
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 6: go through the secretary first, Yes, he has to reset.

731
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 3: It's incredible and I think, but I think there's something,

732
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 3: there's something kind of that The fundamental thing about Jerry,

733
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 3: I mean beyond if you talk about motives, motives beyond

734
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 3: him needing this this money for whatever trouble he's gotten

735
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: and that he's trying to dig himself out of, is

736
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 3: that he just wants to be the guy. He wants

737
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: to be the man He's like, he's been completely emasculated

738
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: in his situation in his home, his his father in

739
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 3: law runs his life literally run literally owns the car

740
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 3: dealership that he works that he works at. I mean,

741
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 3: this is you know it, questions and second guesses all

742
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 3: of any decision, any that any anything that's happening with

743
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: with his his grandson and with his wife. I mean,

744
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 3: there's no territory that Jerry can call his own. He's

745
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 3: completely ineffectual and kind of you know, having something for

746
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 3: himself being able to pull off this scheme and specifically

747
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 3: get money out of his father in law, rip him

748
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 3: off specifically, that's an important goal for him to accomplish,

749
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 3: which of course he does not pull off. And well,

750
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: that's the other thing I love about the movie. What

751
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: makes out of comedy is that it goes wrong instantly

752
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 3: just taking the car off the lot. Just that one

753
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: aspect of the plan is so poorly thought through and

754
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: so doomed to fail that anything else that happens beyond that,

755
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 3: you know, is just I don't know. I mean, there's

756
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: obviously a lot of stuff that has beyond that is

757
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 3: a worst case scenario, but in terms of the actual

758
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: scheme being pulled off, just taking the car off the

759
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: lot is immediate mistake that he can't unwind.

760
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 5: There are a lot of lovely little grace notes in

761
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 5: this movie, but one of the ones that stuck with

762
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 5: me most on this particularly watch is that moment where

763
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 5: Jerry is talking about how you know, he he wants

764
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 5: to take care of his wife, and I knew.

765
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 6: This is gonna be I I was waiting, I was

766
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 6: waiting to bring up this exact line to Tasha.

767
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, and uh, and Wade just says, just in the

768
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 5: most dismissive way possible.

769
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 6: Jerry says, this could work out real good for me

770
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 6: and Jean and Scottie, and Wade says Gene and Scotty

771
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 6: never need to worry.

772
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 5: You never need to worry. And and just I mean,

773
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 5: that's it's just got real like the following members of

774
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 5: the Simpsons family will not be murdered by me today.

775
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 5: Energy to it, you know, the the the sheer dismissiveness

776
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 5: of I don't care about your plans. I will take

777
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 5: care of your family when you when you are unable to,

778
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 5: I will certainly not care take care of you. At

779
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 5: the same time, it's just, uh, it's it's beautifully brutal.

780
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 5: It's such an efficient line, of course.

781
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: That I would have to also bring up Stan Grossman here.

782
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: I forgot to get to this territory because one of

783
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: my favorite moments in the movie is just the faith

784
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: that you the importance that Stan Grossman has to Jerry's

785
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 3: father in law, and then and then the credibility that

786
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 3: Jerry takes for when when Stan kind of agrees with

787
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: how they should go about dealing with the kidnappers, uh,

788
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 3: to the point where he tells his son that they're

789
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: not going to go why they're not going to get

790
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 3: the police involved, and how they're going to do this

791
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: because Stan Grossman he reaches reaches the son and it's

792
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: not him, but he's got the backing of Stan Grossman

793
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 3: on this whole uh the way this is all going

794
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 3: to go down, which is incredible and also follows up

795
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: a thing a bit where it's Stan Grossman who has

796
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 3: to remind Jerry that about his son, his own son,

797
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 3: and like like like Jerry kind of forgot that his

798
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: son is going to be pretty upset about his mom

799
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 3: I violently kidnapped, taken from his hope.

800
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, that that little like oh right Scottie moment is

801
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 5: also right up there for very very efficient lines.

802
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 6: I'm actually having an oh right, Scotty moment right now

803
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 6: because everyone who would take care of him is gone.

804
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 5: Now.

805
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I know.

806
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: It was like, well, I think the last time I

807
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: watched this movie before this was was like, yeah, what

808
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: happened to Scott?

809
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 6: I mean, I feel like Stan Grossman took care of Yeah,

810
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 6: maybe Stan adopted Scotty, you know, I think that would

811
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 6: be nice for both of them.

812
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 5: I Mean, we're told that Scotty is never going to

813
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 5: have to worry. There's there's a lot of money out there.

814
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 5: That's uh well, I mean some of it is in

815
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 5: a suitcase by offence somewhere, but it'll be okay eventually,

816
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 5: not emotionally but but financially.

817
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna take a short break to think about

818
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: what happened to Scotty, uh and then when you kin

819
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: look for that money like some kind of treasure hunter.

820
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: But we will be back after that to continue our

821
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: discussion of farm.

822
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 6: What did kill you to say something.

823
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 3: I did? No, the first thing you've said in last

824
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 3: four hours.

825
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 5: That's a that's a fountain of conversation, man, that's a geyser.

826
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: So we've already talked about like the question of who

827
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: is a protagonist of this movie. I think there there's

828
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: kind of two dark horse candidates too, which which is

829
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: Carl and Gear uh the the criminals, the kidnappers played

830
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: by Steve Bushimi and Peter Stormyer. It's it's not one

831
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: of the things that the more I watched this movie,

832
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: the more I you know, I'm left thinking about what

833
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: we don't know, and not in an in an irritated way,

834
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,959
Speaker 1: but it's like it's obvious to me that Carl comes

835
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: from somewhere else, but how did he get here, you know,

836
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: to this part of the world.

837
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 6: And and and how did he got a little bit

838
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 6: funny looking?

839
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: And how do you get partnered with Gere a person

840
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: that he clearly has nothing in common with and does

841
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: not like either. But they're a great team. Just just

842
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: spending time with them in the in the in the

843
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: in the car, like this movie is a tight ninny men.

844
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: It's kind of perfect that way. But could you not

845
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: watch like forty minutes of them driving around try, you know,

846
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: Carl desperately trying to start a conversation that Garret doesn't

847
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: want to have.

848
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 3: I vouched for Garrett, but not Carl.

849
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 5: You remember the Looney Tunes. There were several Looney tunes

850
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 5: with like a great, big, gigantic bulldog and like a

851
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 5: little yappy dog that was constantly bouncing around him, like

852
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 5: trying to demand his attention. That is that is what

853
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 5: these two feel like.

854
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 3: Well, you know, Carl constantly you wanting to have a conversation. Silence,

855
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 3: total silence. Two could play that game, smart guy. I mean,

856
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: that's just wonderful stuff. And it just and then on

857
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: the other side, what you get from Peter Stormer with

858
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 3: the you know, very simple brutality and also you know,

859
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: love of pancakes, and there's it's a it's a it's

860
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 3: a great comic contrast. I mean it just speaks to

861
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: just the versatility of the Coen Brothers, which is really

862
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 3: on display at this movie. I think you know that

863
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 3: this is something that you know, you get through the

864
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 3: whole scope of their career, and you get it really

865
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 3: this early on because this is what their fifth film

866
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: I'd like to say fifth feature, but but you know,

867
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 3: their ability to to toggle between different moods, you know,

868
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 3: and it's in a movie like Farrio, you know, be

869
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 3: able to do that tightly within the same movie between

870
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 3: you know, suspense and drama and and also you know,

871
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: you know straight up you know comedy, you know, great

872
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 3: sort of dialogue and behavior different comedy. Uh, this is

873
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 3: a really good showcase for that and U and it's

874
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 3: with with with this pairing. I think it's just it's

875
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of fun to watch these two ping

876
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: off of each other.

877
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 5: I'm going to continue to maintain that I think Jerry

878
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 5: is the antagonist of this film. You know, he he

879
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 5: sets everything in motion with his greed. Desperation certainly is

880
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 5: his deception to me, Carl thinks he's the protagonist of

881
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 5: this movie. You know, he's he's got big main character

882
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 5: energy for himself, but you think, you know, they the

883
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 5: two of them don't really come across as the villains

884
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 5: until the very end, and they wouldn't even be in

885
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 5: this story if it wasn't for Jerry the turn at

886
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 5: the end where we suddenly go from you know, things

887
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 5: have gone badly for Wade, but they've also gone very

888
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 5: badly for Carl, and the whole thing is just disintegrating,

889
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 5: but it kind of feels like come up for kind

890
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 5: of the two worst characters in the film. And then

891
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 5: the pivot to what happened to Gene is the moment

892
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 5: where this movie suddenly stops being just just feeling like

893
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 5: a dark comedy and veers into something tragic, you know,

894
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 5: tragic and hurtful. And then it isn't long after that

895
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 5: that Gary makes his move, which is just very startling

896
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 5: in the moment that it happens. So the whip turn,

897
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 5: things that happen around those characters in particular, as we

898
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 5: go back and forth between kind of comedy and drama,

899
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 5: kind of hating them and maybe maybe pitying them a little.

900
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 5: There might be a little bit of sympathy for Carl

901
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 5: when he gets his ass pretty literally whooped in the

902
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 5: middle of trying to have sex within this escort, who

903
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 5: could not be more bored with him?

904
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 1: And over it I hear Bells, Bells.

905
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 5: She's a great character her. Have you ever been in

906
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 5: the VIP room.

907
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 6: Well, we were talking earlier, Tasha, you and I were

908
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 6: kind of saying that we kind of forget how this

909
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 6: movie works, you know, every time when we were visited

910
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 6: or like how it fits together. And the gene reveal

911
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 6: that she had been killed, it didn't hit for me.

912
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 6: I was like, Oh, they just knocked her out, you know,

913
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 6: like I know Jeane dies in this movie, But in

914
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 6: the moment, I was like, no, she can't be dead.

915
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 6: He's just just you know, sleeping or something. Because it

916
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 6: is such a turn and especially because like Jeane's hold

917
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 6: kidnapping has had such an air of comedy around it

918
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 6: to this point, Like I'm thinking when they arrive at

919
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 6: the cabin and she flees the car with you know her,

920
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 6: she can't see anything and she's just running around screaming

921
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 6: like a chicken with her head cut off, and Carl's

922
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 6: just laughing at her, you know, like outright laughing at

923
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 6: her and like it's objectively funny, but it's also horrifying

924
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 6: when you stood back. Yeah, yeah, and sort of her

925
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 6: the initial kidnapping has elements of that as well. So

926
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 6: like the moment when it turns from oh no, she

927
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 6: is really dead, like this is really as bad as

928
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 6: it is, even though we've been laughing through it. It's

929
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 6: just such a startling moment.

930
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 3: I think it's a great reveal too, because you just

931
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: to not have that dramatized at all, for her is

932
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 3: to simply be dead on a cold cottage floor. And uh,

933
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: I think that's it's interesting to you know, because you

934
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 3: do see there are scenes in which you know, death

935
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 3: is played to, you know, in a very explicit way,

936
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 3: but in a very very cold, passive like, oh she's

937
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 3: just gone on kind of way. Is very startling. And

938
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 3: I think I think, you know, with regard to her kidnapping,

939
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 3: I think that's you know, and her running around, you know,

940
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 3: in two different occasions like a chickle where their head

941
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 3: cut off, and not being you know, being desperate but

942
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: also not you know, that having the absurdity of not

943
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 3: being able to actually see where she's going. I think

944
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 3: that's it, that that kind of fits into you know,

945
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 3: this sort of discomforting but I think, you know, audacious

946
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: tone that the coens are striking that were was quite

947
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 3: controversial at the time, and I think maybe is still

948
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 3: a little bit, but maybe less so now that it

949
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: seemed the film seems to be pretty well accepted as

950
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 3: a classic. But you know, to hold those two thoughts

951
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 3: at once, to hold the thought that that we're watching

952
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 3: this woman who is desperate in a way that's extremely ordinary,

953
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 3: you know, who just wants to get away, who is

954
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 3: very frightened, and and those are those are extremely human

955
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 3: feelings to have. But but it is also you know,

956
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 3: like like these amateur criminals, she is also not a

957
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 3: professional at getting kidnapped, you know, she is she is

958
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 3: desperate and in an extremely human way. And uh so

959
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 3: we have to hold those two thoughts together at the

960
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 3: same time and live with maybe the discomfort of holding

961
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 3: those two thoughts together, of not having it completely clear

962
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 3: how we're supposed to feel during moments like that.

963
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 5: I mean, there's a lot of incompetence in this movie,

964
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 5: just just all the way around. One of the reasons

965
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 5: Margie is refreshing in the way she is is because

966
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 5: she's one of the only, maybe the only competent person

967
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 5: in this movie. I mean, look at the scene where

968
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 5: we find out that Carl and gar are hold up

969
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 5: at Moose Lake. You know, there are a bunch of

970
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 5: clues there that competent policemen could potentially like put together

971
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 5: and could be like a track leading to the kidnappers,

972
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 5: and instead it's just completely discarded. That might be lou

973
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 5: in the jacket, it's really hard to tell with him

974
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 5: all like kennyed up in the tight pulled hood. But

975
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 5: you know, whoever it is, like gets this information that

976
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 5: in any other movie would lead to lead to the kidnappers,

977
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 5: possibly early enough to save Gene, and it's sort of

978
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 5: casually dismissed by both of the participants in that scene

979
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 5: as you know, probably nothing important, you know, you know,

980
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 5: just just something to forget.

981
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 6: Look at the weather going to storm coming in.

982
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 5: I do think it's interesting that, you know, while Margie

983
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 5: is you know, competent and capable and realizes that, you know,

984
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 5: she needs to interrogate Jerry Closer and you know, picks

985
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 5: apart exactly what happened in a crime scene and draws

986
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 5: correct conclusions from it and whatnot. This really isn't a

987
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 5: like a crime mystery solving kind of movie. She accidentally

988
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 5: stumbles across the perpetrators because she notices a car in

989
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 5: a driveway, not because she's following clues into that area.

990
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 5: She just happened to be there. The pieces don't fit

991
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 5: together in terms of like a procedural or you know,

992
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 5: her intelligence being you to follow a track. It's all

993
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 5: just kind of a kind of a coincidence, which honestly

994
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 5: is just a very very Coen Brothers thing, which she's not.

995
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 3: It's not a coincidence that she's looking where she's looking

996
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 3: for the car because because she was told about you know,

997
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 3: because Carl, who is literally the most conspicuous person in

998
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 3: the entire state of Minnesota, has made his presence in

999
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 3: that area known. I mean, that's where you get the

1000
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: whole scene about about uh, you know, where the guy's

1001
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: talent telling the the other cop about him being holed.

1002
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 6: Up, and yeah, you know which which you were talking about, Tasha.

1003
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 6: But I think Margie got that information.

1004
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 3: No, I think the other cop makes it very clear

1005
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 3: that she's acting on that she's acting on that.

1006
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 5: Diagree he's stillective work there.

1007
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 3: It's not it's not a red herring like that that

1008
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 3: there's that scenes there for a reason.

1009
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's there to just give further evidence of

1010
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 5: how incompetent people are in general. When Margie is driving

1011
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 5: along that road, she just says, you know that she's

1012
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 5: she's taking a shortcut home, and then she had there's

1013
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 5: there's no she's not going slowly, she's not looking into driveways.

1014
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 5: There's no evidence that she's like, you.

1015
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 3: Know, casing that joins the twentieth time to confirm, I mean,

1016
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 3: that's not what I that's not that's not what I

1017
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 3: get out of the wall. She is absolutely looking for

1018
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: what she is looking for, and she finds, oh.

1019
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 5: I got to disagree with your you know, your criticism.

1020
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 5: There again it's got it. But yeah, I'm also up

1021
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 5: for rewatching Fargo yet another time.

1022
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 6: So I actually just pulled up the script because I'm

1023
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 6: curious about this, and I think Margie said, or Marge says,

1024
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 6: I'm almost back. I'm driving around Moose Lake. And then

1025
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 6: the person she's talking to says, oh, Gary's loudmouth. And

1026
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 6: I think Gary was the cop who who was getting

1027
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 6: that intel about the loudmouth, right.

1028
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 5: I think Gary was the citizen who reported it.

1029
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 3: Either way, though it's yeah, it's the same, it's the

1030
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: same clue, it's it's there for a reason. There's no way,

1031
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: you know, the Gita scene is the one scene where

1032
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, it's this doing the movie. Every other

1033
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 3: scene in the movie as is like, is like this

1034
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 3: film's a narrative Juggernauth.

1035
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 5: It's there for I absolutely agree that it's there for

1036
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 5: a reason, but I think it's there no.

1037
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 3: In terms of terms for a narrative purpose, like a

1038
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 3: driving the.

1039
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 5: Story forward, not not no, I mean, I think it's

1040
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 5: all it's all character work. It's all to tell you,

1041
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 5: like what kind of environment we're in. When she says

1042
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 5: Gary's loud mouth, that to me is it kind of

1043
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 5: resurfacing his head as something that he had already forgotten.

1044
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 5: You know that it didn't get reported to her, like

1045
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 5: she doesn't say, you know, like Gary said, or because

1046
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 5: of what Gary said. It's a very casual call me

1047
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 5: wrong on this, and Jennery like jump back to the

1048
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 5: end of as you're looking at the script, the end

1049
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 5: of the loud mouth scene, where it seems to me

1050
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 5: that they both say it's just a coincidences, no big okay.

1051
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 6: So Gary says, okay, well, thanks a bunch, mister Mora.

1052
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 6: You're right, it's probably nothing, but thanks for collin her in.

1053
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 6: And then they talk about the oh it's going to

1054
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 6: turn cold tomorrow, got a moving in. They start talking

1055
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 6: about the weather.

1056
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, to me, that's that's dismissing the whole ideas just

1057
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 5: completely irrelevant. Scott is vruantly shaking his head.

1058
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: Very the very fact that the Gary's loud mouth is

1059
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: on the radar is a conversation topics suggest to me.

1060
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 3: And it follows a pattern of It follows a pattern

1061
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 3: of Carl being the funny looking guy that everybody remembers like.

1062
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 3: He can't he cannot keep himself from making very obvious

1063
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 3: public appearances. He does not, he's not good at keeping

1064
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: things of the d L. He's hiring escorts. He's like

1065
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 3: he's going out and he's going out and blabbing at

1066
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 3: a bar where he's completely out of place.

1067
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: I mean, this is jo tickets those are.

1068
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 5: Cheap, and specifically talking about people that he has murderered

1069
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 5: in the immediate area. Now, as usual, Scott, I think

1070
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 5: we we agree about the takeaway, We just disagree about

1071
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 5: the interpretation, so we've gotta have.

1072
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 3: To have We're gonna have to have our listeners resolve

1073
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 3: this for us.

1074
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 5: Just just added to the list of things that we

1075
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 5: need a ruling on. I will I will say this though,

1076
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 5: like I don't know I wrote I think it.

1077
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 3: Was for the dissolve.

1078
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure it was for the dissolve just about

1079
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 5: the morality of Cohen Brothers movies in general, and how

1080
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 5: all their movies seem to fall into we live in

1081
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 5: a chaotic, ironic universe where there is no meeting, or

1082
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 5: we live in a deterministic, punishing universe where like the

1083
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 5: smallest slip will be your doom movies, and a lot

1084
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 5: of their films sort like pretty neatly into one of

1085
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 5: these categories or the other. To me, Fargo is one

1086
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 5: of those you know, a chaos in darkness rain kind

1087
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 5: of films, and you know, Margie's whole little speech at

1088
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 5: the end really cements it. You know, so many people

1089
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 5: die because one guy who seems to be just completely

1090
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 5: devoid of empathy and completely curious about both other human

1091
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 5: beings and maybe his own inner life, wanted a little

1092
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 5: bit of money.

1093
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 3: I think you can also see, if you're talking about

1094
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 3: Coen Brothers connections, a pretty strong connection morally speaking, between

1095
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 3: Marge and Tommy Lee Jones's character and No Country for

1096
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 3: Old Man people who are good law persons who are

1097
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 3: confronting the force of inexplicable evil in the world and

1098
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 3: having a very strong and you know, just quieting response

1099
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: to it.

1100
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 5: You know what, I'm starting to think No Country for

1101
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 5: Old Men might have been a better movie if Tommy

1102
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 5: Lee Jones had just talked like this the entire time.

1103
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: Perhaps the thing is, you know, we'll we'll just never know.

1104
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: Like as as with all things Fargo and Cower Brothers,

1105
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: there there's mysteries or perhaps just left you know what

1106
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: is what is the line? Someone knows the line, so

1107
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: you gotta accept the mystery on this one. We'll be

1108
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: right back after we accept a short short break with feedback.

1109
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 1: Now it's time for feedback, but first we want to

1110
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: make sure everyone is also checking out the other shows

1111
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: that make up the Film Spotting Podcast Universe. Over at

1112
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: the freshly revised film Spotting SVU, that short short streaming

1113
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: video unit, Matt Singer and Jordan Hoffmann dive into the

1114
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: streaming world including a look at Peter Fairley's new comedy

1115
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: Balls Up. Meanwhile, Film Spotting hosts Adam Kaipinar and Josh

1116
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: Larsen have recently a reclest episode about the top five

1117
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: Roo Duvall scenes and they're maddening. Forties movie Bracket continues

1118
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: to just upset me to even think about having to

1119
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: make those choices. That is still going on, and also

1120
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: you can find all that at filmspotting dot net, where

1121
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,959
Speaker 1: you also find information on the second Film Spotting Fest,

1122
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: which will be held in Chicago on June twenty seventh

1123
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: and twenty eighth. I think at very least Tasha, Scott

1124
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: and I will be milling about some of those screenings,

1125
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: and there's some good stuff coming to that one. Now

1126
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: it's time for feedback, where we read or listen to

1127
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: some of the responses we've gotten to recent episodes. This week,

1128
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: we've got drama about the drama.

1129
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 5: Tasha, can you read that letter accent or no accent?

1130
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: And no accent? I think I think you know we

1131
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: want to kin, you want to parcel out, you know,

1132
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: just just making.

1133
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 6: We've got a whole other episode where you can use

1134
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 6: the accent. Tasha, you don't want to burn out.

1135
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah, Kevin writes after the spirited

1136
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 5: discussion on the ending for the drama, I'd like to

1137
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 5: throw another hat into Tasha's corner. God, there's so many

1138
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 5: hats over here that it's at best an ambiguous ending,

1139
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 5: if not one that suggests this couple will still struggle.

1140
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 5: I won't go so far as to call anyone who

1141
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 5: disagrees with me a cream puff. I'd just like to

1142
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 5: hear your interpretation of this detail. When everything has been

1143
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 5: laid out for our characters, be it what they imagine

1144
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 5: doing or what they actually did, they reconvene at a

1145
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 5: diner and reignite their long running game of let's start over. However,

1146
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 5: when Emma asks what happened to try Face, he does

1147
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 5: lie until a playful tale of heroism rather than the

1148
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 5: truth he really messed up his wedding. While one could

1149
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 5: read the game as tongue in cheek, it does belie

1150
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 5: that Charlie's first impulse is to avoid the truth, speaking

1151
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 5: to the character's fear of confrontation that Tasha laid out

1152
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 5: in the episode, Since, as you all noted, they were

1153
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 5: an uncomfortable conversation or two away from putting this behind them,

1154
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 5: I'd argue that their problems may still persist. And if

1155
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 5: you'd wish, I'd have a hopefully less traumatic question. If

1156
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 5: you were a pastry, what would you pick? And why? Ps? God,

1157
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 5: it'd be funny if Scott said creampuff.

1158
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 3: Oh, I would like something really flaky. That be really flake,

1159
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 3: something really flaky and buttery. That's me.

1160
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 6: Croissant is what I'm hearing, and nice croissance.

1161
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I like to say I'm gonna

1162
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 3: make Dan Jake's my standing grossmand and say that he

1163
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 3: backs me up on the ending of on the ending

1164
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 3: of the drama. I saw him at his screening of

1165
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 3: Brother Mary the other night, and I think there was

1166
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 3: some support from my end of that discussion. But we

1167
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 3: definitely agree that the drama was kind of a fun

1168
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: movie to see you and talk about.

1169
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 5: For sure, I'm going to go with a pecan braid,

1170
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 5: both because I like them and because they're more complicated

1171
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 5: than they need to be for some strange reason. And

1172
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 5: you're you know, it's it's impossible to fully unwrap one.

1173
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 5: You just got to take it as you got it

1174
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 5: as far as this detail goes. Honestly, that moment where

1175
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 5: he reaches for what is it I was trying to

1176
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 5: protect someone from a bear is one of the reasons

1177
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 5: I love that scene so much, and one of the

1178
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 5: reasons I walked away from the drama with such a

1179
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 5: high estimation of it in spite of its kind of

1180
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 5: ups and downs. Like, to me, they've had kind of

1181
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 5: too much of the truth, They've had too much reality.

1182
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 5: He's been pushing so hard and so deep for the

1183
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 5: whys of it all that interjecting some whimsy into this moment,

1184
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 5: but also kind of like mythologizing himself in a laughable,

1185
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 5: ridiculous way, like making a joke to me, turning the

1186
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 5: let's start over from just like a deadly serious like

1187
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 5: let's try again to repair the relationship that I have

1188
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 5: shattered into a million pieces. Going from that into something

1189
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 5: so overtly silly, I guess is a way of like

1190
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 5: lightening up the situation between them, and the fact that

1191
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 5: he reaches for something that couldn't possibly be true. You know,

1192
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 5: if he was just if it was shading it a little,

1193
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 5: I would agree that he's reaching for dishonesty. But here

1194
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 5: I just think he's being funny in a very like

1195
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 5: small ry and definitely self mocking way. He's kind of

1196
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 5: puncturing himself a little bit while pretending to puff himself up,

1197
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 5: and I love it.

1198
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: I'd be a jelly donut because if you're going to

1199
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: eat me, I'm going to be annoying about it.

1200
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 5: To note to self, if ever try to devour Keith,

1201
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 5: be aware it's going to be a messy process.

1202
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: Well, we always appreciate.

1203
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 5: Wait, we didn't hear about genemy what pastry Jenevieve is?

1204
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I have yet to see the drama, so

1205
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 6: I can't throw my hat at any in anyone's corner.

1206
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,959
Speaker 6: But Scott, you you took my pick without even really

1207
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 6: taking it. I gave it to you because it would

1208
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 6: definitely be a croissant of chocolate croissants, but a pondo

1209
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 6: chocolate lot. I guess if you're feeling a fancy about it.

1210
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 3: That's a that's a good one you when those are made, right,

1211
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 3: Holy holy cow, because it's like a it's like a

1212
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 3: regular cissant, but they put chocolate in it.

1213
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 6: Jennifer, Oh, I'm aware.

1214
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 5: Do tell it's an.

1215
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: Incredible feed of pastry mechanics.

1216
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: Well, we always appreciate I feed for our listeners whether

1217
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 1: or not pastries are involved. To reach us, you can

1218
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: leave a short voicemail at seven seven three two three

1219
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: four nine seven three zero, or email us at comments

1220
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: at Expresture show dot net. You can also send a

1221
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: recorded message to our email address if you want to

1222
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: make sure that you get the wording just right. That's

1223
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: it for this episode of the Next Picture Show. In

1224
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: our next episode, we'll talk about Normal, another movie that

1225
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: turns some white snow red. Look for that episode next

1226
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: Tuesday on your podcast or choice. For ad free versions

1227
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: of the podcast and extra content, find us on Patreon

1228
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: at Patreon dot com. Slash the Next Picture Show. You

1229
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: can find us at next Pictureshow dot net and on

1230
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: blue sky at the Next Picture Show if you want

1231
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: to keep track of when new episodes drop until next week.

1232
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: I remember people are going to use that three cent stamp.

1233
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 1: It's maybe even better than winning that big prize.

1234
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 7: That was a good movie.

1235
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, seen here before once