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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Hello, everybody. We have just

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Speaker 1: come out of the courtroom and what a closing argument

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Speaker 1: it has been so far by the state's first Council

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor Waters. But before we could start closing arguments, and

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Speaker 1: I tell you you could hear a pin drop in

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Speaker 1: that courtroom, and I very carefully was watching each jurar

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Speaker 1: that I could see. But before we could even get there,

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Speaker 1: the jury went to Moselle, the hunting lodge, the scene

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Speaker 1: of the murders before closing arguments, bright and early this morning.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Judge Newman in our cut four.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have the escort take you all to

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Speaker 1: subject property Moselle to have a view, a jury view

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Speaker 1: of the location. You're not allowed to discuss the case

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Speaker 1: with anyone, and you're not allowed while there to ask

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Speaker 1: any questions of anyone who may be there. If you

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Speaker 1: have any questions, you can only ask me. Now, it

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Speaker 1: has been a year and a half or more since

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Speaker 1: June seventh of twenty twenty one, and things have changed

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Speaker 1: or most likely have changed, so you have to take

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Speaker 1: that in mind and certainly consider that. But still it's

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Speaker 1: the same location and we'll do that tomorrow morning. Taking

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Speaker 1: a jury out of the courthouse, out of the bubble

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Speaker 1: in which they have been existing, is very, very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Anything can go wrong. As I was mentioning earlier today,

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Speaker 1: if they as one person holding up a sign Murdoch

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Speaker 1: did it, that is grounds for a mistrial with me

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Speaker 1: an all star panel. But first I want to go

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Speaker 1: to veteran trial lawyer Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor in

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Speaker 1: Inner City Atlanta, now defense attorney out of Atlanta. Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: did you ever take a jury out of the courthouse, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: We never did that because my worry is exactly what

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Speaker 1: you had to say. My concern would be they saw something,

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Speaker 1: but an accident, could have been any number of things

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Speaker 1: that would create a problem when it came time to

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Speaker 1: a verdict. And the last thing you want is for

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Speaker 1: a jury's verdict to be nullified based upon outside circumstances.

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Speaker 1: You know, another thing happened in court just before the

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Speaker 1: jury broke and this was when doctor Kinzie was on

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Speaker 1: the stand, just before these closing arguments started. And Christine

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Speaker 1: let me know when you pull up the video in

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Speaker 1: the sound it was the South Carolina Attorney General, the

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Speaker 1: elected Attorney General who came in for the direct examination

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Speaker 1: on rebuttal of doctor Kenzie and the Age, got a

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Speaker 1: long gun and acted out the defense's theory of how

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Speaker 1: Paul was shot. And it was completely ridiculous. Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 1: is with me, forensics expert, founder of Cold Case Research Institute.

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Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl, you gotta be really careful when you

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Speaker 1: start waving a gun around in a courtroom, especially with

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Speaker 1: a jury sitting there. They don't like that, nor does anyone.

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Speaker 1: But when the Age, the Attorney General got that long

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Speaker 1: gun and he had doctor Kenzie crouched down in the

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Speaker 1: position that Paul would have had to have been at

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Speaker 1: the time of the murder to according to the defense,

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Speaker 1: and didn't make any sense. Cheryl. And also, before you answer,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind that right behind the shooter in that scenario,

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Speaker 1: up at the top of the door is all the

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Speaker 1: pellets from the shotgun. So how do you shoot somebody

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Speaker 1: like that and the pellets go back there? It doesn't

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Speaker 1: even make any sense. It's impossible for that to have happened.

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Speaker 1: And that's why what he did to me was genius,

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Speaker 1: show them acted out, proved that this is not possible,

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Speaker 1: not just that we don't believe their theory. It could

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Speaker 1: not have happened. A cartoon couldn't have put the pellets

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Speaker 1: where they lay in any way possible. Guys, I want

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Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our cut one. Did

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Speaker 1: you have the opportunity to observe one witness named Michael

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Speaker 1: Sutton who was a forensic mechanical engineer for the defense.

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Speaker 1: I did. Now do you recall any of his conclusions

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Speaker 1: or what his main conclusion was regarding the size of

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Speaker 1: the shooter? I do five foot two to five foot four,

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Speaker 1: basically your many years of law enforcement, experienced, education training.

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Speaker 1: What is your overall opinion on his conclusions? I think

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Speaker 1: his intentions are well, but I think his methods were flawed.

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Speaker 1: The defense determined that there were two potential angles. How

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Speaker 1: confident are you that the methodology used to term those

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Speaker 1: angles are accurate? I have zero confidence from this piece

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Speaker 1: of evidence. When the defense expert says that the shooter

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Speaker 1: has to be between five two and five four, do

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Speaker 1: you disagree with that? I do disagree with that whole heartedly.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's an unknown I don't I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's many more variables you have to know how the

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Speaker 1: shooter was holding the gun, you know, Cheryl. Finally somebody

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Speaker 1: on the stand that speaks plain English, that makes any

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Speaker 1: sense now. That was Kinsey addressing the defense theory that

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Speaker 1: shooter had to be five two or under. But listen

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Speaker 1: to one more thing before everybody on the panel gives

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Speaker 1: me their final vote. Take a listen to our cut three.

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Speaker 1: Kinsey on the stand. I love this guy. Paul has

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Speaker 1: just been shot. Yes, there. And then in the defenses theory,

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Speaker 1: what walking you tell me what to do and you

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Speaker 1: you act us out and I'm gonna do what you

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Speaker 1: tell me to do. Based on the defenses theory of

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Speaker 1: the case, the defense agreed with the assessment that Paul

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Speaker 1: stood there for a moment, leading down his injured left arm,

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Speaker 1: and he slowly walked toward the door. Okay. And what

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Speaker 1: does the shooter do the shooters coming in the door,

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Speaker 1: And then what does the shooter do? He shoots Paul

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Speaker 1: in the back of the head after he passes it, okay,

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Speaker 1: and then shoots Paul the back of the head like this,

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Speaker 1: And where does the blood spatter go? The blood spatter

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Speaker 1: the pellet defects. And one that I didn't know about

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Speaker 1: that the expert collected was in the door frame at

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Speaker 1: the top of the door. The theory. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I think the theory is preposterous in my opinion. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there you go, Chryl. That is where the Age Attorney

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Speaker 1: General and Kinsey were acting out the defense scenario, and

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Speaker 1: when they did it at all, crystallized that it didn't

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Speaker 1: make any sense. Didn't make any sense. And I think

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Speaker 1: Kinsey does does a beautiful job here again showing in motion,

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Speaker 1: in action, this couldn't have happened the way they're wanting

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Speaker 1: the theory to go. It's just like the two shooter theory.

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Speaker 1: What are you what are you giving us that there's

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Speaker 1: any other stranger shooter, much less two of them. They're

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Speaker 1: giving us nothing. The you know, where the pellets landed,

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Speaker 1: where the blood splatter went, everything is not indicative what

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Speaker 1: they put forward. Kensey is showing you everything that went

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Speaker 1: into motion. Is one shooter in this direction not you know,

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Speaker 1: they're make believe story of what happened to Robert and

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Speaker 1: Crispins joining me private an investigator now, but former federal

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Speaker 1: Task Force for the US Department of Justice was with

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Speaker 1: the DA in Miami where there's never a lack of business.

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Speaker 1: He's at Crispin Special Investigations now, Robert. The reason I'm

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Speaker 1: telling everyone about Kinsey and the age at the end

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Speaker 1: of the States Free Bottle because just a couple of

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Speaker 1: hours ago, guys were camped out right in from the courthouse.

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Speaker 1: I ran to get here to you. Once the state's

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Speaker 1: first closing argument was done. Just a couple of hours ago,

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Speaker 1: the jury came back from going to Mozelle. That's the

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Speaker 1: hunting lodge where in the dog kennels the two murders

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Speaker 1: went down. Now, see, they've heard all this testimony and

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Speaker 1: Crispin then they go to the scene. They go in

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Speaker 1: that dog kennel and don't you know, they were looking

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Speaker 1: around and looking up at that door and looking where

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Speaker 1: the bodies would have been, and it had to hit

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Speaker 1: home to them the various arguments they've been hearing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, actually they got to go see where yesterday

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Speaker 1: they were trying to show how it could not have

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Speaker 1: happened that way. So they actually got to see it,

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Speaker 1: and that's very, very, very important. The only thing I

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Speaker 1: wish they would have done when they went out to

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Speaker 1: do that jury site inspection is I wish somehow they

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Speaker 1: could have orchestrated some type of letting an AR fifteen

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Speaker 1: on a test fire goafe. You see how loud that

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Speaker 1: weapon is and as loud as the shotgun is. Because

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Speaker 1: the timeline going back in time to when he says

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Speaker 1: he wasn't there and he was up at the house,

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Speaker 1: just to see how loud those weapons are and that

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Speaker 1: automatic gunfire is, you would have heard it. It doesn't fit.

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Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about what he just said, Darryl Cohen.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to hear that too. I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: inside and Moselle and hears shotgun and a blackout fired

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Speaker 1: at the kennel. I wanted that. But don't you know,

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Speaker 1: if there had been an experiment with the jury there,

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Speaker 1: you'd have one gr that's deafen this ear, another one

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Speaker 1: that has a hearing aid and this and that, another

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Speaker 1: one that wasn't paying attention, and somebody wouldn't have heard it,

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Speaker 1: and then somebody would have heard something different. It's very

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Speaker 1: dangerous matter to try an experiment like that in front

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Speaker 1: of a jury. I mean, Daryl Cohen, do you know

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Speaker 1: how many times I would practice a demonstration in front

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Speaker 1: of the jury before I did it? I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are too many variables that can go wrong, and then

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Speaker 1: you'll send the completely wrong message, Nancy, if it can

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Speaker 1: happen at will, and it's never good. So I agree

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Speaker 1: with you. It pains me sometimes to agree with you,

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Speaker 1: but I do. You don't want to have that type

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Speaker 1: of experiment taking place in front of a jury because

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Speaker 1: all of us see and hear something different. I can't

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Speaker 1: hear you. My left ear is not as good as

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Speaker 1: my right. My right ear is not as good as

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Speaker 1: my left. I don't know what in the world I

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Speaker 1: should be listening to. I don't think I heard what

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Speaker 1: I should have heard. I saw it differently. Did you

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Speaker 1: see that? So all of that makes a difference. And

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Speaker 1: actually what we're looking at. Do the jurors like him

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Speaker 1: or do they hate him? That's really what we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: because the okay, well, I've got to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about what I saw in the courtroom. But before I

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Speaker 1: get to the jurors and their reactions to this closing argument.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be in segments in many jurisdictions,

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Speaker 1: the state can make the first argument, then the defense

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Speaker 1: goes and then the state follows up attacking the defense,

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Speaker 1: and they get the last word. Fly because the state

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Speaker 1: has the burden of proof. I'm gonna get right to

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Speaker 1: what I saw happening in the jury box, but to you,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree joining me for pathologist, medical examiner, author,

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Speaker 1: former detective, wrote the homicide Investigation Field Guide. Do I

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Speaker 1: need to tell you anything more about? Doctor dupre? Doctor Dupree,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut two. I want to

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Speaker 1: find out if you agree or disagree. He describe the

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Speaker 1: kind of trauma you have observed in your career with

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Speaker 1: the contact winds to the back of the head or

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Speaker 1: any part of the head, and it's specifically to the

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Speaker 1: face generally speaking, whether it be a shotgun or a

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Speaker 1: large caliber handgun. The result is similar. You feel as

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Speaker 1: though the forehead and the facial features have went away.

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Speaker 1: And that's a kind way to put it. They're actually there,

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Speaker 1: but they've been shredded, and the pathologists can actually put

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Speaker 1: those features back in place or the majority of it.

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Speaker 1: But looking at it, it looks like from the teeth

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Speaker 1: of the person went away. It's just a mess or

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Speaker 1: the winds suffered to call the back of the head

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Speaker 1: consistent with a contact shot to the back, absolutely not

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, Crime stories with Nancy Grace Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: Do you remember Fred? To cars? May he rot in Hell?

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Speaker 1: Fred Tokars was a practicing judge and my old jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: Inner City Atlanta. He was a practicing lawyer, defense lawyer,

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Speaker 1: and he was a part time judge. A beautiful wife,

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Speaker 1: remember the Ambruscoe family. Gorgeous girls, every one of them,

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Speaker 1: one prettier than the next, smart, engaging, He married her.

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Speaker 1: They had these beautiful little boys, and then to cars

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Speaker 1: out dating strippers, using drugs on the side, the whole shebang.

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Speaker 1: He hires two idiots to kill his wife. Wasn't her

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Speaker 1: first name Sarah? Anyway? I was so so sick at

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Speaker 1: the time when I heard this description, but it comes

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Speaker 1: to mind right now. There were two pups. They get

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Speaker 1: in the car with Sarah and the little boy is there,

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Speaker 1: if not, both of them are in the car and

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Speaker 1: they shoot Sarah in the head. The other idiot first says, man,

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Speaker 1: that fed up my high, and then he said her

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Speaker 1: head blew up like a pumpkin. Now when that happened,

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Speaker 1: Daryl co and the Cheryl McCollum, I was a brand

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Speaker 1: new prosecutor. The only thing I knew about murder was

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Speaker 1: when my fiance they had been murdered. And when I

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Speaker 1: heard blew up like a pumpkin, I thought, well, that's

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Speaker 1: an awful thing to say. Why did they say that?

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Speaker 1: How can you say that in front of a jury?

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Speaker 1: You guys remember that, I remember quite well. Yep, it

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Speaker 1: was Nancy. That is exactly what it would have been like,

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Speaker 1: isn't it if Paul had been shot in the head

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Speaker 1: with a shotgun? Nancy. I've been to so many crime

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Speaker 1: scenes where there was a contact shotgun, one to the head,

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Speaker 1: and we have literally had to scoop up the brain

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Speaker 1: with a ladle and put it into a plastic baggy.

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Speaker 1: That is not what was described, mostly intact, doctor Dupree.

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Speaker 1: Now see, even I a veteran prosecutor, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how many dead bodies I've seen. I'm not proud of it,

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Speaker 1: but even I just got put off by what you said.

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Speaker 1: But the truth is that that's the truth. Okay, could

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Speaker 1: you explain that to me? Go ahead? So the brain,

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Speaker 1: normal brain is the consistency of say, a firm pudding.

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Speaker 1: It's about two two and a half pounds. When the

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Speaker 1: brain is shot with a shotgun blast, it is decimated

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Speaker 1: it turns into almost fluid. There's just no way that

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Speaker 1: this could have been a contact one to the head.

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Speaker 1: It is so much more realistic that it was an

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Speaker 1: angle shot and that the shot severed the brain stem

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Speaker 1: near the back of the neck and therefore the brain

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Speaker 1: basically popped out of the skull and landed where it

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Speaker 1: did nearly intact. It doesn't make sense to be a

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Speaker 1: contact one, you know, Daryl Cohen, did you hear the

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Speaker 1: way she explained that. I understood it perfectly. But I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about doctor Rhemer, who was on the stand, as

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Speaker 1: she is brilliant, She is just burning brilliant. But I

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Speaker 1: think the defense got to her and she was became

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Speaker 1: defensive and agitated as any normal person would have. And

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Speaker 1: I hope the jury got the gist of what doctor

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Speaker 1: Dupree just said. I mean, it's hard when you're on

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Speaker 1: the stand and you're being attacked to articulate to regular

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Speaker 1: people like us, very complicated medical issues like to preacher

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Speaker 1: did well, Nancy, you've got to keep it simple, stupid kiss.

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Speaker 1: That's my view, and we're not saying and Murdah is

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Speaker 1: not saying that he killed him, and it came from

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Speaker 1: a different way he's not saying that he saw it happen.

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Speaker 1: They are throwing out a theory, whether it's good or mad,

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Speaker 1: that it's how it could have happened. And he has

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Speaker 1: not charged with being the murderer because people saw him

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Speaker 1: pull the trigger, not once but twice. He's charged with

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Speaker 1: it with circumstantial evidence. You and I used to talk

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Speaker 1: about the snow argument. It didn't snow last night when

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Speaker 1: I was awake. I woke up this morning and it

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Speaker 1: was snow on the ground. Somehow it got there. That's

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Speaker 1: really what the prostitution's got to or he used rain.

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Speaker 1: I used to rain, but it doesn't change. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to see the storm to know that it rained

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Speaker 1: when I'm out of your office or your home. But guys,

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard the prosecution do it yet. Kelly Skin

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Speaker 1: is with me, Fox Nation's senior producer who he's been

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Speaker 1: listening to all the evidence in the courtroom with me.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't hit the evidence yet. Waters and all eyes

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Speaker 1: are on Water. She started with motive, which to me

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Speaker 1: is a single most troublesome fact in the case. Kelly, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have heard Waters make this storm analogy from opening arguments,

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Speaker 1: and we see it again in closing arguments, and as

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Speaker 1: we just heard, you don't need to be outside to

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Speaker 1: know it is raining, and that is what he is

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Speaker 1: asking the prosecution to do. He says, you need to

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Speaker 1: find means, motive, and opportunity here, and he is saying

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Speaker 1: that the only person who possibly had all three of those,

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Speaker 1: as well as evil and wicked intent is Alec Murdoch. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me go to you. Everybody jump in again. Do

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Speaker 1: I have to keep reminding you this is not high

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Speaker 1: Tea at Windsor Castle with King Charles. Jump in. I've

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Speaker 1: got a little delay in my ear, but I'll try

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Speaker 1: not to step on top of you. Cheryl McCollum. What

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Speaker 1: it boils down to me is just like in Scott

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Speaker 1: Peterson and don't believe some half baked entertainment show about

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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson. I heard the trial, I heard the evidence

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Speaker 1: with the jury, and I agree with the verdict. Scott

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Speaker 1: Peterson placed himself at the scene of the disposal of

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Speaker 1: Lacy's body on the day that her body was disposed,

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Speaker 1: along with baby corn or her unborn child. Murdog is

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Speaker 1: placing himself at the scene of the murders. Listen to

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Speaker 1: this at eight forty nine, twenty seven. Wait, eight forty five,

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Speaker 1: forty seven, so eight forty six, he's there in the video.

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Speaker 1: He is in the video at eight forty six. At

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Speaker 1: eight forty nine, Maggie reads her last text at eight

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Speaker 1: forty nine. Eight seconds later, Paul stops responding to the

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Speaker 1: chat and the phone calls. He was having back and

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Speaker 1: forth with his friend Rogan Gibson Rogie about that dog

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Speaker 1: that was Rogan's dog, and Paul was taking a video.

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Speaker 1: He had the dog at his kennel and they were

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Speaker 1: going to send that video to a lady veterinarian to

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Speaker 1: look at his tail. Listen to this time again, everybody,

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Speaker 1: eight forty six, he is there, Murdog is there. Eight

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Speaker 1: forty nine. The murders have happened right then, So you

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Speaker 1: want to tell me that in three minutes somebody he

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Speaker 1: leaves and somebody else rushes over, grabs two murdog weapons,

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Speaker 1: shoots them down and gets away. That's bs. Nancy is

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Speaker 1: worse than that. That's all you've got to say, is

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Speaker 1: right when you say he placed himself there, he lined

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Speaker 1: did not place himself there. That Kyle, he took a

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Speaker 1: video and that placed him there. So not only do

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Speaker 1: we have only a three minute window we have the time.

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Speaker 1: He absolutely lied about where he was was the most

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Speaker 1: critical place. So you've got Alex saying I went anywhere

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Speaker 1: near there, and it's not until that video comes out

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Speaker 1: then Paul took that he's busted and he lied about

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Speaker 1: the most and here finally in place and Nancy Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: he also says, finally admitted on the stand that he

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Speaker 1: was there because so many had went Yeah, that's him,

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Speaker 1: that's him, that's him, that said he finally said it

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Speaker 1: on the stand. He was at the kennel and it's

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Speaker 1: at eight forty five forty seven, which is eight forty six.

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Speaker 1: He's there, and the murders occur at eight forty nine.

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Speaker 1: What doctor and Nancy. He also says that the dogs

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Speaker 1: are not misbehaving, they are not acting like anyone else

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Speaker 1: is there, but no nobody else is around? Well duh, exactly.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're right. What killer would have made sure

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Speaker 1: the dogs were back in their cages and everything was

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Speaker 1: just fine, go ahead, Cheryl. The killer would have killed him.

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Speaker 1: There's no way somebody is coming into that remote area

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Speaker 1: in three minutes while he's there, fires seven shots. He

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Speaker 1: don't know nothing about it. He don't see nobody. There's

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Speaker 1: no other evidence of bookprint for tire tracks or foam things,

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Speaker 1: nothing that every road. Lee, Guys, I'm looking down because

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Speaker 1: I've got all my notes from the closing arguments. Let

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Speaker 1: me tell you, Prosecutor Waters walked in. He walked out

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Speaker 1: of the courtroom right before closing. I wonder what he

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Speaker 1: did out there. Maybe he went to the bathroom, maybe

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Speaker 1: he got some water, maybe he said a prayer down

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Speaker 1: on his knees. But he came in and he was

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Speaker 1: full of swagger. He walked right by everybody, went up

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Speaker 1: there and started his argument and started at twelve thirteen

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Speaker 1: point twenty five, day twenty seven, and he hit it,

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Speaker 1: and he hit it hard. This is what is concerning me.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go back over the closings. But Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: you know how I always ask people what was the

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Speaker 1: jury doing, and they always say, well, they were listening.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't help me. That doesn't help me at all.

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Speaker 1: So I got in a very precarious perch. I started

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Speaker 1: looking at every jurar. I could listen to this, Daryl

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Speaker 1: and Kelly skin listen to this, because you know the

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Speaker 1: jurars just as well as I do from looking at them.

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Speaker 1: There is a red headed lady on the front row

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Speaker 1: that is nodding with the state almost imperceptibly. There is

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Speaker 1: a short haired, brunette lady on the back row that

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Speaker 1: doesn't take her eyes off the prosecutor Waters. There is

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Speaker 1: a white male that has on glasses and a mask.

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Speaker 1: He also never takes his eyes off Waters. I got

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Speaker 1: one lady, though, the lady that always brings a blanket

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Speaker 1: and pulls it up. She was doing everything but looking

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Speaker 1: at Waters. She might glance at him, and then she

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Speaker 1: should look off. She'd drink or drink. She spent most

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Speaker 1: of her time looking out at the audience. You know

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about back row. I do, Nancy, and I

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Speaker 1: talked to I talked to a source very close to

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Speaker 1: the prosecution this morning about that same juror's body language

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Speaker 1: and asked him what he thought about this juror quite

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Speaker 1: literally covering her face with a blanket. And what he

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Speaker 1: told me is, I am not going to speculate on

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Speaker 1: where any juror is at this moment in the trial,

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Speaker 1: because one day you think they're for you, the next

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Speaker 1: day you think they're against you, and everyone who is

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Speaker 1: watching this trial right now is analyzing our body language

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Speaker 1: the prosecule as in the prosecution's body language every step

387
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Speaker 1: of the way as well. See, Nancy, I'm not as

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Speaker 1: concerned with that did not help me, Kelly. Well, hold,

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Speaker 1: you're worried about the jerry. Let me tell you who's

390
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Speaker 1: going to be a problem. There's a guy on the

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Speaker 1: back row, a white male. There's two of them back

392
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Speaker 1: there that are wearing I call them lumberjack shirt they're

393
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Speaker 1: plaid shirts. Now, there's one guy all the way by

394
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Speaker 1: the wall under the flag. He never looks away from

395
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Speaker 1: the prosecution while they're talking. The other guy in a

396
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Speaker 1: lumberjack shirt, it's a red lumberjack shirt, will barely look

397
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Speaker 1: at the prosecution at all. That is not a good sign, Daryl.

398
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Speaker 1: While you're spilling your guts in front of the jury

399
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Speaker 1: and they're like looking off up at their ceiling, countying

400
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Speaker 1: the squares and the ceiling. That's not good, Daryl. Nancy.

401
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: This case has gone on and on and on, and

402
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: we have to realize a swindler does not a murderer,

403
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: make so, as a result of that, the prosecution has

404
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: got to hit it, and hit it hard and get

405
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: to the jurars mentally and physically, and looking at their

406
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: facial expressions, watching their body language throughout the trial means everything.

407
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Speaker 1: And I am fearful for the prosecution that they have

408
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: spent so much time with this banter back and forth

409
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Speaker 1: that the jury has gotten bored, and when they get bored,

410
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: they close their minds and they're just there. It's just

411
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: physically there, not mentally, and that's not a good sign.

412
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Speaker 1: He needs to hit that timeline and hit it hard. Guys.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen. Now, we have just come out of

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Speaker 1: the courtroom closing arguments. We expect the case to go

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Speaker 1: to the jury today. If for once, for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: they can let this jury work late, we might get

417
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Speaker 1: a verdict for Pete's sake. Guys, take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut five as Prosecutor Waters launches his closing argument.

419
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Speaker 1: On June seventh, twenty twenty one, at the Mozille property

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Speaker 1: in Corleton County, Maggie Murdock and Paul Murdock were brutally

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Speaker 1: and maliciously murdered at the kennels by Alec Murdoch. Paul,

422
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: as you know, suffered two shotgun blasts. Maggie suffered five

423
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Speaker 1: blackout rifle wounds, and after an exhaustive investigation, there is

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Speaker 1: only one person who had the motive, who had the means,

425
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: who had the opportunity to commit these crimes, and also

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00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: whose guilty conduct after these crimes. The tracy. The defendant

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00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: is the person on which a storm was descending, where

428
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: his own storm would actually mean consequences for Maggie and

429
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: Paul Off and consequences for those who trusted him. And

430
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: that person is the defendant. You know. I like the

431
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: way he talked about one person that had guilty conduct

432
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: after the shootings, who lied, who tried to hide evidence,

433
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: nobody but Burdog Hey, I'm hearing him, my ear, Christine,

434
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: There you go. She is showing video from the Mozelle

435
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: jury visit. Trust me, I did not even risk hanking

436
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: it jinxing it by showing up and spying on the jury.

437
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: But I can't say that somebody else didn't. Here is

438
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: the video of them at the crime scene this morning,

439
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: not the jurars themselves, but what they were seeing. And

440
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: it opens up into the home. I'm not sure what

441
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: they're seeing right there, but they're they're going out. You know.

442
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: That looks a lot like I'll meet it to me

443
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: where the mom lived that said, we're told this is

444
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: video from the scene this morning. Now I would expect

445
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: them to be going out to the kennel again. To you,

446
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, that could have made all the difference that

447
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: visit to the hunting lots today. It's going to either

448
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: crystallize in the jars minds what the arguments have been,

449
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: what the testimony has been, what the evidence has been,

450
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: or it's going to confuse them. I think by going

451
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: out there and helped crystallize a lot of what they

452
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: were hearing and made it real It took a story

453
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: and turned it into me as each every and each

454
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: and every individual Jar, making me part of this story

455
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: and bringing me in. So I think it was a

456
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: great idea for them to go out there. I realized

457
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: the prosecution was against it, but I think the more

458
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: jurars can feel and see what has happened, the more

459
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: likely they are to render a verdict that will be

460
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: an accordance act. Now, wait a minute, that looks like

461
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: the drive. That looks like the long int I'm looking

462
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 1: off at a video was showing you. That looks like

463
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: the long Drive entrance to Mozelle, and it's pretty amazing.

464
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: Robert Chris beIN this Judge Newman had it timed almost

465
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: to the minute. He said, we will be back by eleven,

466
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: and it's a twenty five minute drive from the courthouse

467
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: at least. And he was right. I was sitting right

468
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: here and I heard the crowd behind this cheering, and

469
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: I turned around. It was a group of the lawyers.

470
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: I don't know which side we're walking in yet. Now

471
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: that's looking more like Mozelle. From an aerial view, and

472
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: you can see off to the side, you see cars.

473
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: Part trying to protect the jurars from anyone coming out

474
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:06,479
Speaker 1: there and causing a disturbance that could ruin the trial

475
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: and make it end and a mistrial. Every step of

476
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: the way. See there's somebody driving in front of them.

477
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: There's going to be people driving behind them to protect

478
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: the jury. And hey, I think it may have worked,

479
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: But in my mind it was a big risk to

480
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: take because Robert Crispin, scenes change when you go back.

481
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: The trees may have grown, the bushes may no longer

482
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: be there, or there may be more there could have

483
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: somebody else owns it. Now, what if they've changed the

484
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: kennel in some way structurally, and it's not the same

485
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: as it was the night of the murders. Yeah. Hey,

486
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: I mean that's definitely a chance that they took today.

487
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: And the judge has been spot on this entire trial.

488
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: I like this guy, but I think what this did today,

489
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: although a lot of us didn't want it to happen,

490
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: I think this finally gave the jury an opportunity to

491
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: flush out their headgear because they've been sitting in those

492
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: chairs for twenty seven days listening to all this. And

493
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,239
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest with you, going back, Crispin, hold on,

494
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: hold on, Crispin, we're saying right now that absolutely is

495
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: the kennel, That absolutely is where the murders went down.

496
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: That's definitely it. Wow, Christaine, thank you for getting that

497
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: video for us. Okay, go ahead, plays Crispin. No. I

498
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: was just trying to say, it gives them an opportunity

499
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: to flush out their head gear because they've been sitting

500
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: there for twenty seven days. And when you listen to

501
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: Murdoch's testimony, my god, I was confused because this is

502
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: a lawyer who's repeating questions and just extending out his testimony.

503
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: What I feel was a great opportunity to confuse the jury.

504
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a very well educated lawyer. This

505
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: is you talk about a perfect storm. I'll tell you

506
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: what the perfect storm is, Nancy. The perfect storms want

507
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: a con artist and a lawyer crash into each other.

508
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: And that's what you have here. He knew exactly what

509
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: he was doing. How many other witnesses repeated the question

510
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: every single type or almost every single tipe. I mean

511
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: I sat back and I'm like, I'm starting to get confused,

512
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: and I think that's very intentional. Obviously he knows what

513
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: he's doing, and he's got to because he's got to

514
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: attack the government because the facts are against him. Okay,

515
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: that is of Moselle and that is the kennel. Go ahead, Cheryl.

516
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: It is imperative that they went out there today. You

517
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: and I preach all the time. You've got to walk

518
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: that scene in order to understand it. For twenty seven days,

519
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: they've seen two dimensional pictures. They've got to go out there.

520
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: Excuse me. So, even if the freeze are fallen and

521
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: the brushes overgrown, what has not changed about that is

522
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: the layout in where it is located, as far out

523
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: as it is they're going to understand and somebody that

524
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: would have to bribe that long road, take that long

525
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: driveway unseen, But Paul or everybody else, nobody's gonna buy it.

526
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: This was too isolated, too far away, too secluded. This

527
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: was a one person job. And they're going to be

528
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: able to see that because now they understand it in

529
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 1: a way they could not yesterday. Well, I'm you mentioned

530
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: that long driveway of the getting in and out. What

531
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: go ahead, doctor duffree. So I think it's also very

532
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: important for the jury to actually see and imagine how

533
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: far or the distance between the two bodies and how

534
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: realistic it would be that someone could actually shoot both

535
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: of them. We know with two different guns it's not

536
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: an impossibility. Guys, I want to hear more of what

537
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: we just heard in the courtroom. Hey, who is that?

538
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: Go ahead? And this is Kelly. I was just gonna

539
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: say I was out there at Moselle this morning when

540
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: the jury visited, and we were expecting that road to

541
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: be blocked off and no media allowed, and that is

542
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: not the case at all. I was able to drive

543
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: the road as I've done many many times before, and

544
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: we know that the jury was on the property for

545
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: about twenty to thirty minutes, and specifically, one juror was

546
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: looking up at that door frame of the feed room

547
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: where we've heard that there is damage from those pellets

548
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: from the upward trajectory of the shot that Paul was

549
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: shot with, as the prosecution alleges. But we also know

550
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: that they weren't allowed to ask questions. So my question

551
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: is do they know at this point where Maggie was

552
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: found versus where Paul was found because they weren't allowed

553
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: to ask questions? So do they know the difference between

554
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: the feed room and the kennels and the overhang where

555
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: Maggie was near or are they just as confused as

556
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people watching this. I don't see how

557
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: they can be more confused after visiting the scene than

558
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: less confused. Guys, I want you to hear more of

559
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: waters opening closing, and what I mean by that is

560
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: very often you will see the state and give the

561
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: initial closing statement, then the defense will go, and then

562
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: the state will finish up. Take a listen to our

563
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: cut six. The evidence that you've heard the defendant became

564
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: so addicted and so dependent on a velocity of money

565
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: that the millions of dollars in legal fees that he

566
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: was receiving was not enough, and so we started to steal.

567
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: When he's earning millions of dollars and stealing millions of dollars,

568
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: he's also borrowing millions of dollars from wherever he can,

569
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: the bank, his law partners, his father, and it still

570
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: wasn't enough. And this slow burn was continuing and continuing

571
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: until the boat crash happened in February or twenty nineteen,

572
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: and that changed everything. That set in motion things that

573
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: were going to happen because of the criminal charges related

574
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: to that case as well as the civil charging delated

575
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: to that case. And in the aftermath of the boat case,

576
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 1: things changed. The pace of his stealing increased. In fact,

577
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: that's when he stole the money from Tony Satterfield that

578
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: you heard from, ultimately stole about four point five million

579
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: between the stader Fields and others. For you've heard where

580
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: his finances were at on June seventh, twenty twenty one,

581
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: and you saw what happened in the way of that.

582
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: And on June seventh, twenty twenty one, because all these

583
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: pressures were mounting, the defendant killed Maggie and Paul. You know,

584
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: he's really making a point Kelly's skin to tie this

585
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 1: into the boat crash, because the boat crash was the

586
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: case was supposed to have a hearing that week. I

587
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: believe it was the tenth, and then Paul was murdered

588
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: on the seventh, and suddenly the boat crash lawsuits seemed

589
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: to go away, and the lawyer for that case, Tinsley,

590
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: actually said, well, yeah, it's not as good of a

591
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: case anymore. We don't have a defendant. Paul's dead. The

592
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: Murdloch family has all this sympathy, and sure enough that

593
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: case settled for a lot less money, money that was expected,

594
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: just like Mardoch thought, yeah, we've heard from the prosecution

595
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: and closing arguments that Alec Murdoch was on this hamster

596
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: wheel of just trying to keep up with begging for money,

597
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: borrowing money, stealing it allegedly, and hoping that this truth

598
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: would not be exposed. That was until the boat crash,

599
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: when Mark Tinsley was going to make a motion to

600
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: compel and Alec Murdoch would have to show how much

601
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: money he had. Alec Murdoch and his attorneys claimed he

602
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: was broke. Tinsley didn't believe it and was going to

603
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: file this paperwork for Alec Murdoch to show what money

604
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: he had. And the prosecution is alleging that that is

605
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: the pivotal moment in which Alec Murdoch made allegedly to

606
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: the decision to kill Maggie and Paul two distract from

607
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: this boat crash lawsuit because he knew, allegedly that Mark

608
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: Tinsley would drop it and settle for a lot less,

609
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: which is exactly what we saw happen, which is exactly

610
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: what happened, and the way Waters described enclosing argument, Darryl,

611
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: you would have of this described how after the boat crash,

612
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: people were not three inches up Alex Murdoch's tailpipe about

613
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: the missing millions. They were overcome with sympathy. Everyone was

614
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: reaching out, how can we help you. It was almost

615
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: as if the thefts had never happened. It got dropped

616
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: like a hot potato after the murders of Paul and Maggie.

617
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: It did. But what it also did is it you mentioned,

618
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: it took away from we're going after him because he

619
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: has stolen all of this money. But it also is not,

620
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 1: in my view, a good motive to kill his son

621
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: and his wife. I think that is the weak point

622
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: in the case. The other weak point is when the

623
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: prosecutor allowed Murdoch to continue to repartee with him back

624
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 1: and forth. I would have been much more to the point,

625
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: ask a question and see if we can get him

626
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 1: off the stand, because Murdoch was so good at least

627
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: it appeared to be good, making a point cosying up

628
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: to the jury. And that's why one of the people

629
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: who have seen the jars, the woman looking out the

630
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: other people looking at them. That makes all the difference

631
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: to see who is who is not resonating with the jury.

632
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: Because ultimately, Nancy, if the jury likes Murdoch, he is acquitted.

633
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: If they don't like him, he is convicted. That's simple,

634
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: and they'll find a way to justify their verdict. Right

635
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: before we came out at the lunch break, Christine, I

636
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: want to play our cut eleven because we heard Murdog

637
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: referring repeatedly to Paul is now to see his son

638
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: as they quote little detective, because he blamed Paul for

639
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: finding his drug stash. And from that point forward, Paul

640
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: and Maggie were quote watching him like a hawk, and

641
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: he was descending into with drawals. Take a listen to

642
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 1: our cut eleven. We know in May that Paul sends

643
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: a texture him saying, mom found some pills. We need

644
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 1: to talk. Another pressure from Paul and Maggie on him.

645
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: And if you look at the texts the weekend of

646
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: the ball game on June seventh, alc is night of

647
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: the game and he's texting back and forth and Maggie's like,

648
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: don't come if you feel bad, and he's like, well,

649
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, I think I can get a late check out.

650
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: And then he's like, at one o'clock they made me leave,

651
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: which a reason one inference. They were on him at

652
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: this time. They were watching him like a hawk. Ope.

653
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: It's the most powerful of withdrawals. And everything's come into

654
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: a head, including this run out of money, running out

655
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: of options, doesn't get paid an he's never going to

656
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: wait until December, already stole the fairest feeds and spent

657
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: that money in two months, has an expensive pill habit,

658
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: and accountability and consequences will do undo everything in his life,

659
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: everything that is his self, identity, everything, the only things

660
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: that he cares about he doesn't care about lying to

661
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: his partners and his family and his friends and his clients.

662
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: If it will delay accountability for him, he'll do it

663
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: in a heartbeat, and all of that it's about to

664
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: be undone. Can you imagine your wife and your son

665
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: watching you like a hawk, trying to keep you away

666
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 1: from your opioids when you have a twenty year, fifty

667
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a week addiction. He himself says that withdrawals

668
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 1: are awful, that you will do anything to make them

669
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,479
Speaker 1: go away. What was he willing to do to make

670
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul go away so he could get back

671
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: in the bottle. The bottle of opioid peels guys when

672
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: things are starting to die down and attention is focusing

673
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: on him. According to the prosecution, this is what happens.

674
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut seven. His buddy Chris

675
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: Wilson comes and sees him on September fourth and confronts

676
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: him about what he's been doing, and then within two

677
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: hours the side of the road happens. When accountability was

678
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: at his door, he was a vegam again, and he

679
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: told a extremely detailed by and went so far as

680
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: to draw a competence composite sketch with the police of

681
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: this assailant. The accountability that had rideds gorsed up again.

682
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: He tried again try to get it to go away,

683
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: and it worked for a little while, but this time

684
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: it fell apart a little quicker because his own brother

685
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: figured out that he was trying to buy drug. He

686
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: is a different man than the kind of stories that

687
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: we've seen before, when you have a middle aged man

688
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: who's outwardly successful, who has a strong family legacy, prominence

689
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: in the community, but is living a lie. Crime stories

690
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, okay Kelly's skin. I think that everything

691
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: the prosecution has said so far is correct, and I

692
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: think he said it well. I also think he needs

693
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: to start doubling down on the night of the crime

694
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: and the evidence proving the murder and get off motive.

695
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: We have heard more times throughout that night than I

696
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: can count, whether it's eight forty four or seven forty six,

697
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: and really it's like the journey needs a pre to

698
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: get the times of that night right. But something he

699
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: also said about opioids, as I'll let you decide the

700
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: jury if he really could take a thousand milligrams of

701
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: opioids a day, but even if he was being intoxicated

702
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: is not an excuse for murder at all. However, I

703
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: agree with you completely that they are going to have

704
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: to put a bow on this to really nail down

705
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: and solidify that timeline of what happened that night. Because

706
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: the jury's not allowed to take notes, they can't read articles.

707
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: Will they remember the times that the prosecution has been

708
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: talking about for six weeks now? Or is Creighton Waters

709
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: going to really wrap this up with a bow for

710
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: them so they can really comprehend the exact moments that

711
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: Paul and Maggie died. And it really hit home when

712
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: he was describing. They even had a graphic of a

713
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: hamster on a wheel. It was a drawing. Take a

714
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: listen to our cut nine, the way that Waters is

715
00:45:50,280 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: describing murdog for now twenty years addicted to opioids, begging, borrowing, lying, stealing,

716
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: doing anything to get that next high and just keep

717
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 1: it going. Take a listen to cut nine. It's the

718
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: main thing he did in the wake of the merger

719
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: of his wife and sun was he made sure to

720
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: say again, one stephead of the game because he had

721
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: more time now. He had time he didn't have on

722
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: June seventh, but he had it now, and that's the

723
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: first thing he did. The first thing he did, it's

724
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: the main thing he did, was keep the hamster will going.

725
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: I know it seems like a lot that you have

726
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: to consider the unique circumstances of this particular man, this

727
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: particular man who has proven over and over again that

728
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: he will do anything to keep that hamster will going

729
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: and to avoid accountability. And he's been doing it forever

730
00:46:55,239 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: ten years. He just finally reached a point that he

731
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: could never reach it and he hammers it home. Listen

732
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: to cut eight. I want you to hear it the

733
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: way we heard it in the courtroom right behind us.

734
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: Take a listen. That's a situation. I think it's akin

735
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: to a pomes and a poss kind of like a

736
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme where it depends on new money coming in

737
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: to pay old investors. And it works. It'll work for

738
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: a long time as long as you can keep that

739
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: money coming in. But the second you can't, the second

740
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: that you're out of options, it crashes and burns. That's

741
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: how every palms crashes and burns. And that's the situation. Fundamentally,

742
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: his finances were like and that's the situation that was

743
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: arriving in June of twenty twenty one, when he was

744
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: at the scene with the victims minutes before they died,

745
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: and lie to everyone. He would listen about a gathering storm,

746
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: the boat case, other factors that were arising, each one

747
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: leading to that inevitable day of reckoning. He had the

748
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: trial lawyer's conference where he was confronted Mark Tinsley was

749
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: confronted by Alec Elec of course denied it. Everybody's lying

750
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: on Alec Alex telling you the truth even though everyone

751
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: who knew him had no idea who he was. Everyone

752
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: no one knew movie really was. The people who came

753
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: in here and said we thought this about him, not

754
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: a single person who he really was. That's how convincing

755
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: he is. You know, all that is true. But the

756
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: one thing that sticks out in my mind right there,

757
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, is that he is at the scene of

758
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: the murders minutes before we know the murders occurred. And

759
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: according to my calculation, it's not even minutes, it's about

760
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 1: one and a half minute before the murders occurred. Nancy.

761
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: There's no way for him to get around that, there's

762
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: no way for him to avoid that. He is where

763
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: it happened. Whether he says he did it or didn't

764
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: do it, he is right there and that is something

765
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: that he is not able to get over, not able

766
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: to explain away, not able to use his gift of

767
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: gap to say I was there. But it just doesn't fly.

768
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: This doesn't fly. You know what I think? I hear you, Cheryl,

769
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: go ahead. The jury is gonna under will lie and

770
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: then he will invoke a gun when he needs to

771
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: to fake suicide, which incidentally was asto, which is what

772
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: happened to Paula Maggie. He could have had himself shot

773
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: anywhere on his body that he chose that area, and

774
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: then he will deflect attention away from the truth by

775
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 1: garnishing that sympathy to stop any more investigation. That's what

776
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: he did over and over here. That's his play. To you,

777
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, from your point of view as a pathologist,

778
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: medical examiner, former detective, what is the main fact that

779
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: you would hammer home to the jury right now? I

780
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 1: would hammer home exactly what you've been talking about, Nancy,

781
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 1: that timeline and that specific three minutes where I mean,

782
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: it probably takes almost that long just to drive down

783
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: the driveway he's been there, he is there during that time.

784
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: I would hammer that home so strongly. Oh, I like

785
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: what you just said, because it fits perfectly. The jury

786
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: has just come from Mozelle in the last two hours.

787
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: It took that long just to drive down that long driveway. Hey, Christine,

788
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: do we have that aerial shot of Moselle. There's this

789
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: and we saw it on the jury viewing a huge

790
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: long driveway that is bordered with beautiful pine trees. There

791
00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: you go, yes, yes, that's it. It's a really long drive.

792
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: It would have taken him that long, as doctor Duprees

793
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: just said, to get down the driveway. That it's just

794
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: I think that's what they need to be hitting. Robert Crispin,

795
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: veteran law enforcement now private investigator. If you had to

796
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: hit the jury with one fact, what would it be, Oh,

797
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: the video and the electronic evidence and the fact that

798
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: the jury was just down there and now we're coming

799
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: back from lunch and he's going to go in there

800
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: and he's gonna slam that timeline in there right now,

801
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: and they're gonna go wow. Yeah, I was just out there. Yeah,

802
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: that does kind of fit. Yeah, I was on the property.

803
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: Because it's completely different when you see it in real person,

804
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: and in real time you feel it, you smell it,

805
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: you see it. It's a completely different story. Yeah, it

806
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: was a big gamble to take him out there, I agree.

807
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: But when he comes in buckle off too, you, Kelly skin,

808
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: what do you believe is going to happen next in

809
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: that courtroom? I know the state's not through with closings.

810
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: I never liked it when any closing statement or opening

811
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: statement had to be interrupted by a lunch break or

812
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: really for any reason. Hold on, let me go to you,

813
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen. You're the Venoman trial lawyer. It's never good

814
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: to have your argument broken up, or even an important

815
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: witness to have suddenly a recess in the middle of that.

816
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: That's never a good thing. I'm not sure why, but

817
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: I know it to be true, Daryl Nancy. It doesn't

818
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: bother me if I am questioning a witness or if

819
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: I'm arguing, and when we start back again, I am

820
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: back in front of that jury, because what I'm trying

821
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: to do is curry favor with a jury. I'm trying

822
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: to cuddle up to that jury, and I want each

823
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: and every one of those jurars to like me. And

824
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: hate the defendant. And if they like me, they're more

825
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: likely to hate the defendant. They'll ignore my problems, they'll

826
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: ignore my little this, my little of that, but they

827
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: will focus in on that. Jury will focus in on

828
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: what that defendant did and what he likely So it

829
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 1: doesn't really bother me. It does bother me if there

830
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: is a time when the jury goes out and then

831
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: the next morning I have to come back, or the

832
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: next morning the defense comes back, that does bother me.

833
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: But just a little bit of a break as long

834
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: as the continuity is there. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry

835
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: we broke for lunch, but it was very important for

836
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,479
Speaker 1: you to remember as we broke for lunch exactly what

837
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: the argument was based upon, what the evidence was or

838
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: the lack of evidence. You know. Even there at the

839
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: end of his first closing argument, Waters was pounding on

840
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: Murdog lying as he should and Murdog hiding behind his

841
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: opioid addiction. Take a listen to our cut ten common sense.

842
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: A thousand milegrams a day? Does that sound survivable? And

843
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: if it was, because you could still engage in work,

844
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: have a success practice, and then on top of that,

845
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: engaging in these complex conspiracies to steal and full everyone

846
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: and live a life, and how people outwardly think that

847
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: you're you know who you professed to be in public.

848
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: I have no doubt for he was taking opiate pills,

849
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: and I would submit to you to decide whether or

850
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: not he looked you in the eye and claim about

851
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: its inconsistent with whatever else we know about this man.

852
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: It's really inconsistent with survivability. He can never function at

853
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: the level he's been functioning, keeping up with these pressure,

854
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: staying one step ahead for over a decade. If he

855
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: was taking that much dope, I would submit to you

856
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: as a lie that he's trying to get you to

857
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: believe to feel sympathetic for him, you know. Kelly skin Foxation,

858
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: Senior producer in the courtroom, Kelly, I think now is

859
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: the time to bring it home that he is so

860
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: out of his mind on opioids the night of the murders, Kelly,

861
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 1: and he himself says it makes him feel paranoid, agitated, upset.

862
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,919
Speaker 1: He's out there that night and here are the two

863
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: people trying to take his drugs away, the people watching

864
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: him like a hawk. It all fits together. It just

865
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: sits together. Kelly. Yeah, and as the prosecution has said,

866
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: only the killer would know to lie about those critical

867
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: moments when the murders happened, and the prosecution says that

868
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: person is Alec Murdoch, and Alec Murdoch did lie. So

869
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: I think when we go back into the courtroom, we

870
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 1: can expect Craton Waters to give it a little recap

871
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: of what happened before the lunch break, maybe another rain analogy.

872
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: You don't need to be outside to know that it's raining.

873
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: You can hear the rain drops on your roof and

874
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: know exactly what happened. I think he's gonna bring this

875
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: timeline full circle. And when we hear from the defense,

876
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: you know that they're going to double down on the

877
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: double shooter theory, the short shooter theory, and the fact

878
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: that Alec Murdoch loved his wife and his son and

879
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: could have never done that. You know another thing, I'm

880
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: pretty sure that the jury stays in the courthouse for lunch,

881
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: and I hope they do. I somehow wandered into the

882
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: secret batcave getaway on the other side of the courthouse.

883
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: There is a wrought iron fence around it that a

884
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: sheriff has to come and let you out. So if

885
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: you go back to the courthouse and from the front

886
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 1: of the courthouse, it's on the right, that's where the

887
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: judge and I guess I'm not sure, but probably the

888
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: jail transport comes that way because it's encased in a

889
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 1: secured fence. Well, I got out there, I sure if

890
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: I had to let me out by the way, I

891
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: don't think that they would risk that at this juncture.

892
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: And I also distinctly smelled lasagna and I saw a

893
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: sheriff of rushing by a bella with a plate of

894
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: lasagna on its plate. Because I want them back on

895
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 1: time to get ready, and you know how people doze

896
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,959
Speaker 1: off after they have lunch. I guarantee you that Judge

897
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: is going to have the courtroom sub zero to keep

898
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: the gerards awake. Kelly, Yeah, And we've heard Judge Newmans

899
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: ask the jury before too, what time is lunch delivered?

900
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: So I think it's way too risky to let the

901
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: jury out during lunchtime. There is a sea of media

902
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: out here as well as there's not that many places

903
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: to eat in Walterborough, South Carolina, so you can be

904
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: rest assured that they're having lunch delivered into that courtroom.

905
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: Hopefully not too many carbs because that would put them

906
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: to sleep. And you know another thing to you, Daryl Cohen,

907
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: the state does not have to prove motive, so they

908
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: need to wrap up motive and get to the facts

909
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: of the night of the murder. I completely agree with you, Nancy.

910
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: I analogize it to a wild, vicious animal being cornered,

911
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: and that animal will do whatever it needs to do

912
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: to survive. And I think that is what the state

913
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: has to show that he did what he needed to

914
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: do in his own demented mind with all of the

915
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: drugs to survibe, and that meant killing his wife and

916
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: his son. Other than that, getting rid of the motive.

917
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: The motive thing, I don't like it. I just don't

918
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: just rely on the facts, rely on what his lies are,

919
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: rely on what the jewelry is looking at. And Nancy,

920
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 1: you know one other thing struck me, Kelly that you

921
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: may have seen. Go ahead, Dr Jeffrey, we're running out

922
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: of time and make it quick, okay. So if we

923
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: just look at all of Murdoch's answers, he answers exactly

924
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: to fill in the holes for the evidence that the

925
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: prosecution is presenting you're right, okay, Kelly, Let's go back

926
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Everybody, thank you for being with us

927
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: on the lunch break. We're headed back in the courtroom.

928
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend.