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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Stephman.

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Speaker 1: Never told you a protection of iHeartRadio. And welcome to

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Speaker 1: a feminist movie a Wednesday, Wednesday or whenever it comes out,

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Speaker 1: because we're recording it on Wednesday. Yeah, so we shall see,

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Speaker 1: we shall see.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: We are today talking about CODA, which is an acronym

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Speaker 1: that stands for Children of Deaf Adults And it was

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Speaker 1: an Oscar winning AT twenty twenty one film written and

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Speaker 1: directed by Sean Hayter. And I hope I'm getting that

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Speaker 1: close to right. I looked it up, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know I tried it. It is an English language remake

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Speaker 1: of the twenty fourteen AT French film The Family Bellier

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Speaker 1: and it follows Ruby Rossi, who's play made by Emilia Jones,

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Speaker 1: a child of deaf adults. The deaf characters are played

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Speaker 1: by deaf actors, which shouldn't seem such a big deal,

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Speaker 1: but it unfortunately is currently though the financiers of this

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Speaker 1: movie pushed back on that, and it was at the

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Speaker 1: insistence of Marlee Matlin, who was the first deaf actor

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Speaker 1: to win an Oscar and the first to sign onto

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Speaker 1: this project. She plays the mom who threatened to drop

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Speaker 1: out otherwise. So after that threat they relented them were like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we will cast deav actors to play these deaf characters.

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Speaker 1: About forty percent of the film is communicated through American

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Speaker 1: Sign Language and hater learned for the production learned ASL,

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Speaker 1: and they had two ASL masters, as they were called

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Speaker 1: on set. It's a critically acclaimed coming of age story,

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Speaker 1: though not without some debate within the deaf community, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that at the end. It

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Speaker 1: won Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor for Troy Kutzer, who

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Speaker 1: was the first stef Man to win an Oscar for acting,

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Speaker 1: and Best Adapted Screenplay at the ninety fourth Academy Awards.

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Speaker 1: So spoilers. I guess this is a recent film.

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Speaker 2: This is fairly new, I think twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, spoilers. But it was I watched a couple

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Speaker 1: days ago. I was really cute, really like it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was a lot more than I thought.

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Speaker 2: By the way, this the lead, the female lead, the

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Speaker 2: young woman is actually in lock and key, and I

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Speaker 2: was like looking at her, like I know her, you

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Speaker 2: know how I do this thing where I had to

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Speaker 2: go back and forth, which By the way, Kutzer was

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Speaker 2: in Criminal Mind and I remember him and that, Oh

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Speaker 2: he did great and okay, I guess he was a

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Speaker 2: serial killer, but whatever, he was really good in it.

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Speaker 2: No episode, but yeah, I thought that was I thought

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Speaker 2: it was good too. Definitely felt a little off, so

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Speaker 2: I could definitely tell there was a bit of controversy

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Speaker 2: where it was coming through an ablest person's lens, so

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Speaker 2: someone who doesn't have who's not deaf, and so I'm like, ah,

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Speaker 2: this is definitely a perspective. It also reminded me of

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Speaker 2: the mister Hollands opus. Have you ever seen that one?

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Speaker 2: The Rosor Dreyfus has a deaf son and he is

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Speaker 2: a composer and a music teacher, and so he has

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Speaker 2: to flip It's like the flip script of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I have to show my son, I want him to

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Speaker 2: appreciate music. Here's this right, right.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the biggest points of contention about

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Speaker 1: this is that music aspect, which we will talk about.

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Speaker 1: We will talk about, but first let's get into the plot.

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Speaker 1: The film takes place in Gloucester, Massachusetts, and follows seventeen

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Speaker 1: year old Ruby, who is the only member of her

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Speaker 1: family parents, Franka, Jackie, and older brother Leo. With hearing,

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Speaker 1: she is the titular coda. She helps work at her

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Speaker 1: parents struggling fishing business, a business she plans to work

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Speaker 1: at full time once she graduates. And there's this local

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Speaker 1: board meeting that Frank and Leo go to, and people

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Speaker 1: are really angry at it over these sanctions and these

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Speaker 1: fees that are making it harder for businesses to stay

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Speaker 1: afloat pun, causing boats to disappear from the harbor. Frank

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Speaker 1: announces he's going to start his own company to bypass

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Speaker 1: restrictions and sell his own fish, and he calls on

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Speaker 1: others to join him. The family depends on Ruby to

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Speaker 1: spread the words so they can make the new business successful.

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Speaker 1: After seeing her crash, Miles sign up for choir. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Ruby does. She signs up too, hoping to get closer

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Speaker 1: to him. The choir teacher, Mister v pairs her with

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Speaker 1: Miles for a duet and encourages her to do more singing,

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Speaker 1: even trying to convince her to audition for the school

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Speaker 1: He went to Berkeley College of Music, and he offers

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Speaker 1: her the same private lessons he was already providing Miles.

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Speaker 1: She agrees, but all of this stuff stretches her sin

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Speaker 1: as her family frequently needs her to be their interpreter,

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Speaker 1: and this culminates and mister V becoming frustrated with her,

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Speaker 1: alleging she doesn't really care about the music because she's

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Speaker 1: often late or like falls asleep in the lessons.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, because she has to wake up a three

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Speaker 2: in the morning to go fishing and then goes to

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Speaker 2: school and then goes to these lessons. That's impossible for anyone.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So one day Ruby goes swimming with Miles because you know,

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Speaker 2: Miles does something bad and he's a jerk and he

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Speaker 2: has to apologize, and this is a way of apologizing. Sure,

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Speaker 2: I guess, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: After she and the family get into a whole fight,

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Speaker 2: by the way, she decides to go swimming with Miles

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Speaker 2: while Frank and Leo go out fishing accompanied to buy

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Speaker 2: a federal fishing observer who did not realize they were deaf.

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Speaker 2: And when they do not respond to actually, she apparently

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Speaker 2: tattles on them essentially and calls in the coastguard to

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Speaker 2: say that they don't have people. And when they don't

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Speaker 2: respond to the radio calls and horns of the Coastguard

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Speaker 2: who abruptly jump bond like they're gonna take people down

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Speaker 2: and dramatic. They receive a fine and have their fishing

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Speaker 2: license revoked for a while. They get like, twenty five

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars fine is excessive, and this is on top

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Speaker 2: of the fact that they had to pay for this

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Speaker 2: federal person to be on board to make sure they're

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Speaker 2: filing like following regulations. There's a lot of money. You

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Speaker 2: can see why people are agree. Later, they have an

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Speaker 2: argument with Ruby, telling her that she should have been

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Speaker 2: on the boat with them while and while she argued,

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Speaker 2: she can't always be there to interpret and this is

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Speaker 2: not her fault. After Frank and Leo appeal, they get

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Speaker 2: their license back on the condition that they have a

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Speaker 2: hearing person on board with them at all time, and

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Speaker 2: Ruby tells them she'll join the business full time after

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Speaker 2: graduation instead of pursuing college because they would have to

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Speaker 2: you know. They're like, oh, no, what do we do?

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Speaker 2: This leads to another argument. While her parents are happy

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Speaker 2: to know this, Leo gets angry and tells her that

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Speaker 2: she is talented and she'll regret the decision not to

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Speaker 2: go to college and that he is being treated like

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Speaker 2: a baby. There's a lot of motions. The family goes

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Speaker 2: to the choirs recital Ruby's performing in, and though they

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Speaker 2: can't hear her, they see how receptive and positive the

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Speaker 2: crowd is to Ruby singing, and later that night Frank

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Speaker 2: requests that Ruby sings while he fills her vocal cords,

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Speaker 2: and he's overcome with emotion, leading to a shift in

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Speaker 2: their relationship. Yeah, the mother of the whole time is

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Speaker 2: the one that's like, she can't go, she can't go.

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Speaker 2: She did not see moved by the concept. She's just like, man, okay,

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Speaker 2: because she at the beginning, she was like what if

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Speaker 2: she's bad, what if she's really bad. I was like, wow,

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Speaker 2: they're trying to make her look bad, like this editing

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Speaker 2: or this script is making the mom look really cold.

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Speaker 1: Not She has that line too in the beginning where

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Speaker 1: she's like, so if I was blind, you'd want to

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Speaker 1: be a painter.

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Speaker 2: I was like, whoa, this is like this is really heated,

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Speaker 2: and she's all joking about it that there's no real

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Speaker 2: like it's almost worse because it's like coldly done with

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Speaker 2: no care. But I was like, well, okay, that's how

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Speaker 2: we're gonna interpreted this character. How dare you do that

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Speaker 2: to Marley? Anyway, So the whole family drives with Ruby

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Speaker 2: to her audition to Berkley, getting out of there a

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Speaker 2: little late. Once they get there, Ruby bumps into Miles,

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Speaker 2: who wishes her luck and tells her he didn't make

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Speaker 2: it that he choked on at the auditions. There's a

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Speaker 2: rule on no guests at the auditions, but Ruby's family

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Speaker 2: finds this advantage point to watch, and so they were

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Speaker 2: at this upstairs balcony and when she had forgotten her music,

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Speaker 2: mister V comes in, who had supposedly left but came

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Speaker 2: back and accompanies her because the other person who was

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Speaker 2: on the piano did not know how to play Joni

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Speaker 2: Mitchell's song.

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Speaker 1: Yes Yes, and Ruby, because of all of these things,

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Speaker 1: is very nervous, and mister V makes a deliberate misstep

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Speaker 1: miss key, so she can start again, and after she

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Speaker 1: catches sight of her family, she becomes more confident and

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Speaker 1: she sings and signs both sides now by Joni Mitchell.

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Speaker 1: The judge noticed the family and realize what's going on,

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Speaker 1: but she gets in and invites Miles to visit her. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the Fishers in the community have been learning sign language

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Speaker 1: so they can communicate while her family drives away. After

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Speaker 1: she is dropped off at college, she signs that she

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Speaker 1: loves them very much.

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Speaker 2: Yes. End of story.

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Speaker 1: At the ending.

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Speaker 2: So, by the way, Miles is Scottish. That's something I

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Speaker 2: always have to know. And the girl who plays Ruby

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Speaker 2: is English. Really, I'm all always like, look at them

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Speaker 2: in their accents. They did a great job. But let

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Speaker 2: me mock them on the door, but let me note

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Speaker 2: that they I don't know why, but that's always fascinates

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Speaker 2: me when I'm like, oh, look at that. Okay, I

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Speaker 2: would have never known. Good on you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I was watching another I've been in my BA

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Speaker 1: in my mountaineering. I don't know what is going on

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Speaker 1: with me, but I was watching Everest. Uh, and it

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Speaker 1: has Martin Henderson who is in X with a very

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Speaker 1: southern accent. But he's also isn't he in True Blood?

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Speaker 1: And he has a like anyway, I had a moment

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Speaker 1: because he has a New Zealand Everest. You know you

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Speaker 1: know who it is. Well, it's like if you saw him,

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Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh, this is just the podcast where

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Speaker 1: we like go on tangents about actor and.

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Speaker 2: This is what I do in real life. Though, yes,

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Speaker 2: this is Blood.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he was. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't. Oh, okay, I know you're talking about

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Speaker 2: but he definitely wasn't on True Blood. You're wrong, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, I accept that. I don't.

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Speaker 3: I'm not like Hugh Samantha Anatomy. Oh, I wouldn't know

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Speaker 3: about that. Well, we've gone off the rails, we have,

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Speaker 3: but coming back to Everest and the accents.

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Speaker 1: Well we don't need to come back to that at all.

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Speaker 2: But yes, I think it's different because because of these

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Speaker 2: actors and especially being Ruby, she is usually the American

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Speaker 2: sign language. And I've always thought that was interesting too,

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Speaker 2: because she's having to fly, not that she KNEWSI language

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Speaker 2: to begin with, but you know, it's different from different countries,

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Speaker 2: so I wondered what the differences would be and that

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Speaker 2: and her like adapting to that too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and most of the cast and crew did learn ASL.

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Speaker 1: So I think it said it took her nine months

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Speaker 1: to learn to be able to do it, like very

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Speaker 1: confidently because it's part of her role. She does through

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Speaker 1: that through throughout the film. But yeah, that that was

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Speaker 1: an interesting aspect of it. It is a very it's

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Speaker 1: a very coming of age short. It's a very feel

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Speaker 1: good story, and that was one of the critiques of

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Speaker 1: it was the ending was so nice, which is funny

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Speaker 1: to me. I get it, I get it, but it

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Speaker 1: is like, oh, everything works out.

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Speaker 2: Oh, but you know, I think it's also I was surprised.

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Speaker 2: I was hesitant in watching this movie because I do

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Speaker 2: feel like it's as voyeurism to a certain extent that

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Speaker 2: I don't It makes me uncomfortable with anything like this,

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Speaker 2: But it's also like there's a Again, the two sides

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Speaker 2: to this coin is that it does make me uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: You should be uncomfortable, you should be wanting to watch this,

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Speaker 2: but what type of voyeurism is this learning? Or are

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Speaker 2: you just doing this in a like an almost fetish

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Speaker 2: sized way. Because also a sign language is kind of

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Speaker 2: like that too. I wanted to learn sign language. I

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Speaker 2: think I feel like every person wants to learn sign

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Speaker 2: language growing up. But then it's like, Okay, what is

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Speaker 2: the reason do you really want to? And then people

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Speaker 2: who teach it and get obsessed with it, teach it

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Speaker 2: incorrectly and then take away from those who actually like

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Speaker 2: the deaf teachers who are like hey, don't do it

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Speaker 2: that way, please, you're messing us up type of thing, like,

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Speaker 2: that's a whole conversation on TikTok that's been happening and

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Speaker 2: forth for a while right now, people with good intentions

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Speaker 2: not doing it correctly and then really throwing off an

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Speaker 2: entire community of people were like, this is our language,

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Speaker 2: please stop this.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I think when it comes to this movie,

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Speaker 1: that was one of the that's one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: critiques or just conversation points because people people did have

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Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts about it. But one of the

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Speaker 1: things is, you know, they had these two ASL people

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Speaker 1: on set at all times. One of the things people

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Speaker 1: wrote about that really resonated with me was again those

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Speaker 1: like small things that you don't know unless you that's

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Speaker 1: your experience, so you do. There are things in ASL,

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Speaker 1: which I did take in elementary school. I would never

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Speaker 1: ever presume to be any kind of expert, but like,

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Speaker 1: unless you speak in that all the time, you're going

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Speaker 1: to as a hearing person kind of try to put

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Speaker 1: it in a way a hearing person would put it,

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Speaker 1: and it's not always that same way, right, So that

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Speaker 1: was one of the things people brought up is some

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Speaker 1: of those differences they saw one watching this movie. And

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Speaker 1: I would say the conversation and the deaf community that

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Speaker 1: came out after this came out like no community is

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Speaker 1: a monolith. But overall it felt like people were very

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Speaker 1: torn in that, like they liked a lot of They

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Speaker 1: liked a lot of it, but there are other parts

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Speaker 1: that are like this is actually damaging, right, so and

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Speaker 1: that's it's complicated. And that was another thing a lot

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Speaker 1: of people said is that you know, there's deaf experience

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Speaker 1: varies and it is often very complicated. So it was

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Speaker 1: just a lot of talking around around that and the

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Speaker 1: actors they got all the phrase which is great. They

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Speaker 1: were great. There was also a lot of conversation around

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Speaker 1: the depiction of the parents as sexually active and self sufficient,

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Speaker 1: because that's something we've talked about a lot of times

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Speaker 1: people with disabilities are desexualized in media, so they were

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Speaker 1: talking about that. I did see some conversation though about

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Speaker 1: how it was sort of used humorously, like they were

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Speaker 1: like very sexual, but it was very humorous, and I

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Speaker 1: think like, because unfortunately we don't have this representation a lot,

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Speaker 1: then that feels almost like they aren't being very sexual

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Speaker 1: like not sexualized. That's not the right word, but it's

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Speaker 1: almost like it's being like used as a joke as

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Speaker 1: opposed to like they're actually sexually active.

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Speaker 2: I mean I could say that because any joke. I

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Speaker 2: wonder too. Those also like the parents the embarrassment for

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Speaker 2: a child in general, and that could be in any

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Speaker 2: way right for any spectrum of communities. But like I

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Speaker 2: also thought that was interesting with a brother, like they

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Speaker 2: made sure like he was always on tender trying to

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Speaker 2: find a mate, and then he did hook up with

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Speaker 2: the friend, which was not wonderful, but like it took

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Speaker 2: it into like, no, this is their sexual people. They're handsome,

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Speaker 2: they're like all these things. They're attractive. Nothing like takes

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Speaker 2: away their deafness, does not take away from their dating

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Speaker 2: life growth, dating growth whatever however he has it. But

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Speaker 2: like I think that that they did that in a

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Speaker 2: good light as well. But I can see like, yeah, again,

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Speaker 2: like when I was talking about the reason I think

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Speaker 2: people were shocked about the good ending is most award winning,

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Speaker 2: especially when it comes to oscars, it needs to be

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Speaker 2: tragic or tragic warn for you to actually like it.

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Speaker 2: So I appreciated that, Like it's a difference instead of

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Speaker 2: seeing something to go destroyed because of a disability or

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Speaker 2: you know when we see the feel good movies where

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Speaker 2: someone has a disability and they died and everybody cries,

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Speaker 2: are like, that's awful. Why are we praising this movie?

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Speaker 2: They don't have to die, not just disabled person has

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Speaker 2: to die to make this a good film? What the hell?

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Speaker 2: And which is like a huge critique in the entirety

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Speaker 2: of the film industry. So like it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: double edge sortain, like, well, the opposite way of not

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Speaker 2: having a good ending is is that better? Because we

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Speaker 2: don't want that either, do we?

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Speaker 1: Right? Right? I think again, it has to do so

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Speaker 1: much of this is very complicated because there isn't this representation.

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Speaker 1: So I think a lot of it was like people

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Speaker 1: codis who are like, no, that's not that wasn't my experience.

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Speaker 1: But I'm happy to see this representation, right, But because

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Speaker 1: there's just so little representation, yeah, then it's I guess

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Speaker 1: it's still there's like a lot of work to be

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Speaker 1: done that it could be so much better.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like it absolutely holds true, like that you're

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Speaker 2: getting the crumbs. It's like you have to be appreciative

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Speaker 2: because at least you have something, So why are you

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Speaker 2: complaining we finally gave it to you. I mean that's

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Speaker 2: that whole conversation, Like when Parasite came through and everybody

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Speaker 2: was pissed. This is you know, like that they won

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Speaker 2: and Peoble like, why are you too lazy to read subtitles?

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Speaker 2: Is that a hard thing for you? Are you? Are

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Speaker 2: you really struggling? But like stuff like that, and we

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Speaker 2: had to be you know, we I'm talking about like

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Speaker 2: Asian people, like had to be grateful. It was a

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Speaker 2: good film, don't get me wrong, but the entire day

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Speaker 2: of the film was like, oh, well look how these

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Speaker 2: poor people?

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Speaker 1: And also.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's squid games, same thing, everything is awful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that was That was definitely something I read

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Speaker 1: a lot researching. This was people writing about like I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel like I could critique it in any way

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Speaker 1: because it's you know, so rare, and that they were

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Speaker 1: legitimately like did like it or at least parts of

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Speaker 1: it and were happy to like they did still see

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Speaker 1: it as a huge deal of like representation that it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a story about pity, but not being comfortable because

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Speaker 1: it is unfortunately so rare because opportunities are so slim.

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Speaker 1: Right to make any kind of public critique.

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Speaker 2: Right it is. And again like for us who are

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Speaker 2: hearing people, we really don't have the right to say

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Speaker 2: one way or the other. Like we didn't say we

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Speaker 2: enjoyed the movie, we enjoyed the acting all that for sure,

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Speaker 2: and that bias, but we can't really say one thing

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Speaker 2: or the other because it's not our it's not our fight,

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Speaker 2: it's not our conversation. This is not our platform to

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Speaker 2: be able to be like this is why I should

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Speaker 2: be loved by all the Duck community, because that's absolutely

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Speaker 2: not true, and we should he listen to the critiques.

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Speaker 2: I did find it interesting. I don't know about you.

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Speaker 2: Did you You watched it on Apple right, which is

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Speaker 2: not a sponsor right now, not currently, but the intent.

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Speaker 2: So when you watched it, did it have the subtitles

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Speaker 2: for the ASL?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: So when I was reading it, because what I was

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Speaker 2: watching it on a different platform, I'm not gonna talk

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Speaker 2: about that, it did not have subtitles and I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, no, what do I do? So I had

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Speaker 2: to go back through because again forty percent of the

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Speaker 2: movie is an ASL's like oh no, they intended not

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Speaker 2: to actually, like they did that on purpose, like it's

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Speaker 2: provided for you can get it, but the idea was

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Speaker 2: like that the hearing people would be left in the dark,

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Speaker 2: often as people who are not hearing or who are

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Speaker 2: deaf who have maybe issues and not being able to

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Speaker 2: access the subtitles or the captions close captions. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, I guess I could try to watch

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Speaker 2: it that way. I could not by the way I

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Speaker 2: could not. I was like this, I can't do this.

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Speaker 2: It's so frustrating. So it kind of teaching you a

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Speaker 2: little lesson. But that's I did read that and the

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Speaker 2: intent they didn't necessarily do it on purpose, but they

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Speaker 2: left it out on this kind of you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, like with like you could get it, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's accessible, but we're not going to necessarily do it

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Speaker 2: easily for you. That's interesting, And I'm guessing like the

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Speaker 2: streaming service since it was produced by Apple mm hmm,

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Speaker 2: they did they would provide that on their own streaming service.

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Speaker 2: But of course for me, I am now at the

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Speaker 2: age I love subtitles and now cannot watch movies without subtitles.

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Speaker 2: When we go to theater, and I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I'm suffering right because I can't see the subtitles. I

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Speaker 2: love them, and I feel like I can't hear it

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Speaker 2: correctly if I'm not looking at the subtitles. A lot

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00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 2: of people will understand this. Yeah, but like, yeah, so

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Speaker 2: that's automatic, so you might not you might not have known.

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Speaker 2: But according to one of the things that I read,

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Speaker 2: that was an intentional decision.

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Speaker 1: Huh, Yeah, that's interesting. And I did read a bunch

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Speaker 1: from the creators that they did want to do stuff

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Speaker 1: like that to like make you realize how many things

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Speaker 1: that we take for granted as hearing people.

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Speaker 2: Right. I'm interested though, So anybody who went to the theater, Yeah,

399
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Speaker 2: and see this, it was the captions there, Like, I

400
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Speaker 2: don't want to wonder how they I assume they did.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming they did, but.

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Speaker 2: Because of the theater. But like, yeah, that's just what

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Speaker 2: I read in a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: Well, this movie one of the reasons people think it won.

405
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Speaker 1: And I don't want to detract anything from it, but

406
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Speaker 1: it came out during COVID, which was when we were

407
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: all like feel good, feel good, But it was because

408
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: another controversy it caused was it was the first movie

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Speaker 1: released directly to streaming that won an oscar, and people

410
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: were very like, that's not a real movie, you know

411
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Speaker 1: how they get about streaming.

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Speaker 2: We've like, let that go now because that's what I

413
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Speaker 2: think we take.

414
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Speaker 1: I think we have. But at the time people were

415
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Speaker 1: still mad. So it probably did. If it was on

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Speaker 1: streaming first, then it very well might have had you

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Speaker 1: had to go and put on the captions.

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Speaker 2: So for those people who are unlike me who don't

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Speaker 2: watch TV captions on the regular, how does it work?

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Speaker 2: I guess you can't go and you can go and

421
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Speaker 2: find it out. Take off the captions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'll do some investigating.

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Speaker 2: Right, get to investigating, girl.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know I love investigating. Well, okay, So another

425
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: big piece of this conversation, which we did mention earlier,

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Speaker 1: was the use of music specifically and the idea that

427
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: deaf people can't enjoy it, or people's reactions to it

428
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Speaker 1: being miserable that they can't enjoy it. That line I

429
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Speaker 1: kind of made fun of earlier, Would you be a

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Speaker 1: painter if I was blind? I feel like they realized

431
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Speaker 1: this was a thing, but they did it anyway for

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Speaker 1: kind of drama. It felt like right.

433
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 2: Well, and then I'm wonder like because Marlee is very, very,

434
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: very outspoke and she always has been, like she's one

435
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: of the first. Like I will say, the two of

436
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 2: them are probably the most well known deaf actors, and

437
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: especially now, but I have seen him on screen time

438
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: more than any other deaf actors outside of Marlee as well,

439
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 2: So I wonder, like how much input they Obviously Marley

440
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: has like a lot of say so with the fact

441
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 2: that she held out, which was amazing, which I'm again,

442
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: like you said, I can'tnot believe that wasn't even a conversation,

443
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: but that they would not have been like this line

444
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: is real, real bad, this line. This is not what

445
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: I was saying because again, like Marley, the mom's character

446
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: was not likable, Like she wasn't I didn't hate her

447
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: like a lot of the other but like she was

448
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: not likable. It didn't quite make sense. And I don't

449
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 2: know if it's because we wanted to sympathize with the

450
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 2: daughter so much, which by the way, is an ablest

451
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: view we've seen. We've talked about it before, how they

452
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: make the caretakers a guardian angel as if they are savior,

453
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: and that's just as bad as anything else. And this

454
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 2: is what we see here. So I wonder like if

455
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: they're like because Marley has been self sufficient, because she

456
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: can also communicate. She can actually speak pretty well. I

457
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 2: don't know if it's read lisps, but I think she's

458
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: able to read lips and so I like she's self sufficient,

459
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: like she doesn't necessarily need that type of you know

460
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: what I mean, like a daughter to translate.

461
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: That's related to another critique a lot of people had

462
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: was it's unrealistic. It's unrealistic that there would not be

463
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: an interpreter in professional settings. The ADA requires that. Yeah,

464
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: I read that, but I mean, as we talked about,

465
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: ADA is not perfect, and it does require litigations sometimes.

466
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: But like there should have been someone provided.

467
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: But they owned a private business. Yes, so does seem

468
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: to kind of like under the radar a lot of

469
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 2: the times, right.

470
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to include this quote from someone who specializes

471
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: in death portrayals in things quote. When Beacam first saw

472
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: the trailer of the movie, she thought the story must

473
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: be set in the past. It was the only explanation

474
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: she could think of for Frank and Jackie's dependence on

475
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: Ruby instead of on professional interpreters, which have been mandated

476
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: ever since The Americans with Disabilities pasted in nineteen ninety,

477
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: acknowledging that interpreting services aren't always provided and that many

478
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: children interpret in a pinch. Beacon pointed out that the

479
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: script made no mention of this being a last resort

480
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: for the family. The movie also rarely showed deaf people

481
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: communicating through other methods like video relay services, mobile phone apps.

482
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: Lip reading are just plain old pencil and paper.

483
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 2: Right, I'm not gonna lie. That was like the rational

484
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: part of me, and like, why wouldn't they just text

485
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: like they're doing? That makes the most sense. Why wouldn't

486
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 2: they write? Why are they not writing things to each other?

487
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: Like I don't quite stand. It's not like pen and

488
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: paper don't.

489
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: Exist, right, And that's I think like the heart of

490
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: most of every critique I read was this was still

491
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: told from a hearing case. It had people on sets

492
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: who were deaf, had actors who were and as you said,

493
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure one hundred percent sure that they did raise

494
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: points and were impactful, but ultimately it was still told

495
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: from a hearing gaze, and it was very much about

496
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: ruby and you know, the coda experience too, Like people

497
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: who were CODA spoke up about it like this is

498
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: not that wasn't my experience, Like still wonder.

499
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: About like when she talks about being young and talking funny,

500
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: as she says in the movie, not not saying that,

501
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: I'm saying that, is that a typical experience from a CODA.

502
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: Well that was one thing I read about, Like that

503
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: line in particular, was that that's a thing maybe you

504
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: can talk about and say if you are actually in

505
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: the deaf community or CODA who is in the deaf community,

506
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: but like you know, like as someone who isn't that

507
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be making that comment, that joke like that

508
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: because you're not. You don't know where it's coming from.

509
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: You don't know all of that stuff.

510
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: Like like that's what I'm like, It's maybe I'm wrong.

511
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: Maybe they're like insulated with only deaf people. But she

512
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: seemed to be surrounded by a lot of hearing people,

513
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: so that would seem like I don't think that would

514
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: be as prevalent as that would seem unless she was

515
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: completely isolated in the community. Again, we don't know. They

516
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: don't really talk about that backstory because she also says,

517
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: you only see her deaf friends once a month.

518
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was something that came up too, And

519
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: I think someone pointed out that she is she's kind

520
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: of like the virtuous perfect character, like she wants to

521
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: sacrifice for her family, as you said, but also she's

522
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: kind of judgy about sex with her friends and her brother,

523
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: which again I feel like it's the strangeness between like

524
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: I get it when your family and sex is weird.

525
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: But also it felt something about it felt very like

526
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: virtue singing.

527
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was too many storylines in those maybe again

528
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: because we open with her singing, so you know from

529
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: jump oh, she's got a good voice, but she's singing

530
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: around her us A family, so she doesn't know, they

531
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: don't know. Whatever whatnot, we go this is this is

532
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: a setup to like her loving singing and then her

533
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: family not approving of it. I'm like, I don't know

534
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: if that's truly a thing. I don't feel like maybe

535
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just being too open minded in that the

536
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: Pitt families are like families who grow together. Sure, but

537
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: I don't think they automatically would have been like no,

538
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: no college for you. That seems so backwards nineteen eighty

539
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: maybe right, nineties even.

540
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, And I think part of it too

541
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: was I understand storyline wise, and I did. I really

542
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: enjoyed the movie, but we you know, like storyline wise,

543
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: I get the drama of it, but because it has

544
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: so much like ablest stuff around it, the fact that

545
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: she her singing is the thing and they can't hear

546
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: it and so forward, they must be miserable and she

547
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: can't share it with them and they must be miserable.

548
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: It's just not true. It's like not a great message.

549
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I did say at one point that the

550
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: dad really likes gangster rap, which I was like, can

551
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: we just say hip hop? Can you just say, like

552
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: that's unnecessary to say gangster rap, Like that's obviously a

553
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: joke line there, but like because he likes the beats,

554
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: and I don't know if that's not true, but I

555
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: know I've definitely seen artists talk about who are hard

556
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: of hearing, or composers who are hard of hearing talking

557
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: about they hear the beat and that's how they follow

558
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 2: it and create music and is often amazing and that

559
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: doesn't limit people to do creating music, and it's the

560
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: beat lines. But I'm like, wow, Okay, that's I guess

561
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 2: that's good. But at the same time, why are we

562
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: saying it that way?

563
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: Y'all right? And that was another big scene that people

564
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: are like, no, that doesn't ring true. Is when he

565
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: feels the vibrations of her throat and roby singing and

566
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: her dad feels the vibrations of her throat, which is

567
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: a very emotional scene, but a lot of deaf people

568
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: were like, that would be like feeling a ring tone

569
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: of a phone or like feeling a vibrate, and that

570
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: it can actually be a traumatizing method used to teach

571
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: deaf people on how to speak. So that was just

572
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: kind of another instance where people like this obviously it

573
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: was not written right someone in the deaf community.

574
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: They thought it'd be a pretty touching moment. And then

575
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: you're like, right, you should have consulted somebody.

576
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And again so many people said that the experience

577
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: is very buried within the community. But still, yeah, like

578
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: somebody I imagine would have been like, hey, actually.

579
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: This one, yeah, this one. And again, it's different. It's

580
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: not a singular experience. People have different experiences. It is

581
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: a singular experience, rather that people have different experiences, individual experiences,

582
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: but the conversation should be maybe we should do it

583
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: in a different way. I don't know, Like I A

584
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: was thinking she was gonna start signing yeah music to

585
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: him to let him know the words of what it means.

586
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: That was like, why why wouldn't you go ahead and

587
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 2: sign the song? Yeah, maybe that's more difficult than to translate.

588
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I was like, yeah, okay, okay,

589
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: we're just touching. We're just yeah, just touching.

590
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: Well. And then I had a moment of like, am

591
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: I supposed to interpret this as he's so sad he

592
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: can't hear her, which is again not the thing we

593
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: should be doing. Or is it that he's like actually

594
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: getting something from the vibrations right again?

595
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is it like oh I want to be a

596
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: part of this and this is the best way I

597
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: can do it? Whatever? Whatnot? Also the flip from the

598
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: mom again, like the next day everybody decided to take

599
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: her to Boston. I was like, wait what Yeah, I

600
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: know the brother would have been on top of it,

601
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: but the mother. I was like, shouldn't we have a fight. No,

602
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: she just doesn't care.

603
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: Okay, here we go. Yeah, that was a moment where

604
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, a minute I missed something.

605
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 2: But so quickly we were all like, what's that, what's that?

606
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: What's just happened?

607
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: Who's going where?

608
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 2: Uh?

609
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, That's something I read from Codas too, was that

610
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: it didn't properly capture the things that they are more

611
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: worried about or have to deal with, and one of

612
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: them was not being able to call in a pinch

613
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: if you really need to, especially in the case of

614
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: an emergency. And then a lot of them, a lot

615
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: of the articles I read brought up the scene where

616
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: Ruby misinterprets for her parents as a joke like they

617
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: you can't have sex ever, that's what the doctor is saying,

618
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: which I also, as we said, I understand the underlying

619
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: it makes us uncomfortable as kids to think about that.

620
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: But a lot of people Codas were like, no, normally

621
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: that that's upsetting. That's like you don't do that right, right, right.

622
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: That's for sure, Like any any interpsation, any like, yeah,

623
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: we would have this whole conversation because when we would

624
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: have Spanish speaking clients at different things and they would

625
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: bring the kid and we're like, we can't do this.

626
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: This is so bad because yes, if they misinterubor like

627
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: anything or leave something out. This could be probably a

628
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 2: huge problem and a violation for both us and the parents,

629
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: and so that should be a no note to be given. Again,

630
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: like studies like doctor's with privacy, typically it shouldn't have

631
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: ever been a.

632
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: Child, right, Yeah. And I think one of the bigger

633
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: one of the issues a lot of people brought up

634
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: was that it was played specifically for laughs. It was

635
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: used as a joke line, and a lot of people

636
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: shared like their own personal stories of doing that in

637
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: a medical sense and how up setting it was. So yeah,

638
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: that came up a lot. I did find I mentioned

639
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: it recently. Who knows when the schedule things have come out,

640
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: but I mentioned recently that I did find a paper

641
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: about hearing loss and interacting at big crowds, and I

642
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: was really amazed at how many little like it's those

643
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: little things where it's like, yes, I know what that is,

644
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: I know exactly what that is that you don't know

645
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: unless you've like really lived it. And I feel like

646
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: that that was throughout of the sort of hearing gaze

647
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: of this movie is those little intricacies, right. I would

648
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: say the one of the general vibes I got that

649
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: was going back to what we were talking about earlier

650
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: was a lot of people feeling very torn because they

651
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: were glad the movie got made, but wanting more and

652
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: not wanting Hollywood to shy away because they were critiques

653
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: like this. I'm like, oh, we can't do it because

654
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: the deaf community wasn't happy, Oh or never like not

655
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: wanting that to happen and wanting to provide more support

656
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: for movies like this and deaf creators. But I know,

657
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: we've just been going over a lot of critiques and

658
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: they're important, Like, we have to talk about this. I

659
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: did really like and I feel like most people I

660
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: read as I said, did enjoy it, but there were problematic, damaging,

661
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: right things in there and we have to talk about them.

662
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then in general, I think it's overall talking

663
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 2: about taking a lesson.

664
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

665
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: The truth of the matter is, because of stigmas and

666
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: so much ablest ideals, racist ideals, all the things, you're

667
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: never going to have a perfect movie and you're always

668
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: going to have someone critiquing something that's going to be

669
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 2: an obvious. But when you hear a majority of people

670
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: saying this is the problem we need to fix that,

671
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: you need to listen and Again, as we talked about

672
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: in our feminist around the world, when we talk about

673
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 2: not including those marginalized people in every aspect of the thing,

674
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: including screenwriting, including production, including editing, then you're going to

675
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: do cause these big like conversations which could be avoided

676
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: if you brought them in at the jump. So the

677
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: fact that Marley had to in the middle of casting

678
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: threaten someone instead of it being handled from jump is

679
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: a problem and that has to be talked about in general.

680
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: So when we talk about these criticisms, it's not because

681
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: we're like, oh, this is an awful movie. It was

682
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: an enjoyable movie. I thought each actor did an amazing

683
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: job with the character they had. Really grateful to see

684
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: that they are being highlighted and they're starring in it.

685
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Like we want to get accolades to that. Now,

686
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: let's bring in people of color with that, you know

687
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: what I mean, and marginalized people and people around the

688
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: world who have their own different cultural ways of interpreting things.

689
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: But the fact is that because it wasn't handled from jump,

690
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 2: that's the problem, and that's what you have to talk about.

691
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: And we want to praise the fact that you know,

692
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: this woman who decided she wanted to do this was

693
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 2: excited to celebrate this type of lifestyle. It's beautiful and

694
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: we want to celebrate that too. But to truly celebrate

695
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: is to understand you're out of your depth and you're

696
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 2: gonna need to lean on the people who understand it.

697
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: Right, right, And I think that I'm it sounds so

698
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: kind of cliche, but I'm glad we're having these conversations

699
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: because I think one of the things this movie did

700
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: do was for people who maybe have never thought about it,

701
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: who have internalized ableism and didn't know who maybe don't

702
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: even know I'd never heard the word ableism before. Like

703
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm hoping, I know it started some conversations, and I'm

704
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: hoping more and more people were reached through that and

705
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: had more questions of, like, there's more to this than

706
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: just a coming of age feel good story that we

707
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: need to discuss.

708
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to start from somewhere, and so even

709
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: if it's to the from being wrong to being corrected,

710
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: that's still the beginning.

711
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, it is, and it I mean, this

712
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: movie was his work in a lot of ways, and

713
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where we talk about it

714
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: and I wish it wasn't so historic because it's twenty

715
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: one when it came out, but it was so listeners.

716
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: If you saw this when it came out, If you

717
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: have any more information about how the closed caption situation

718
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: subtitle situation was, please please let us know. If you

719
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: have any thoughts about any of this, please let us know.

720
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuffmedia, Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

721
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,

722
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.

723
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: We have a tea public store we can buy some merchandise.

724
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: We have a book that you can pre order, comes

725
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: out August tween ninth, and you can pre order it

726
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: at stuff you Should Read Books dot com. You can

727
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: also pre ordered on Audible. Thanks as always too, our

728
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey.

729
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: Thank you all, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff

730
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: I Never Told You is production by Heart Radio. For

731
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can check out

732
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to

733
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.

734
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 2: No