WEBVTT - Pirro Drops Reflecting Pool Charges & Ice Arrests at Airports 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June grosseol from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:14.320 Our evidence further shows that the National Park Service employees 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:21.400 observed Herne actually forcefully and violently pulling up and removing 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.600 the bottom liner with both hands. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.800 Just a month ago, DCUs attorney Janine Piro was adamant 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.519 that the government had evidence to prove that former Olympic 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:38.720 rower David Hearn damaged the reflecting pool by violently ripping 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.800 up sealant from the bottom of the pool. 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.920 Does that indicating your belief that it was probably damaged 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:45.280 before or do you believe that. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:46.920 He Oh, he damaged. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.800 It further, But do you believe there had already been damaged. 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.280 Before he damaged the pool? 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:56.080 A stunning reversal on Friday, when Piero dropped the felony 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.880 vandalism charges against Herne, saying that the damage was actually 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.880 the result of a botched installation by the contractor. President 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.920 Trump continues to insist that vandals damaged the pool. 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.759 I was disappointed with Janie Pirou, really disappointed with Janie Pierrou. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.120 She folded like an umbrella. 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.880 Bob Pierro blamed the Interior Department for providing less than 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.360 fulsome information and said she wouldn't have sought a grand 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.080 jury indictment if the agency had been more forthcoming, but 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.480 also wrote the filing that a visual inspection showed damage 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.760 throughout the reflecting pool, even in the middle, where a 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.440 vandal wouldn't likely attempt to peel the lining. I mean, 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.080 shouldn't the US Attorney's Office have done a minimal at 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.400 least investigation before they file felony charges against someone. 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.240 That's exactly the question here and why this is such 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.400 an embarrassing setback for the Department of Justice because typically 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:01.040 the Department of Justice does not roll off on another 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.600 agency to do its own investigation. And in this particular case, 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.920 there was no real rush to judgment. In other words, 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.320 we didn't have a circumstance where there was a potential 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:16.160 danger to the community or where the potential defendant was 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.200 a flight risk. There was no reason the Department of 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:23.160 Justice had to move to indict him so quickly, and 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.480 for them to now turn around and say that the 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.600 information that they had been given by the Interior Department 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.640 was incorrect. And as you said, the visual inspection revealed 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.720 damage throughout the reflecting pool such that a vandal would 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.680 not likely have attempted to peel the lining back really 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.600 undermines the Department of Justice position because it shows that 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.680 they never did a thorough investigation before going into the 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.160 grand jury and seeking an indictment in this case. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.720 Also, in her press conference announcing this, she said there 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.600 was an effort, of violent effort to rip up the 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.040 seal from the bottom of the pool, and she also 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.960 said that yes, there was more than one thousand dollars 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.920 in damage. And now it appears that that was a 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.639 misrepresentation of what happened. 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.600 Well, it certainly seems that way, and I think to 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.560 put this into context, it's fair to point out that 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:24.160 the idea of the Department of Justice simply outright dismissing 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:28.520 charges after an indictment is brought is exceedingly rare. It 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:32.280 almost never happens, and the reason it doesn't happen is 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:38.040 because federal prosecutors typically take their time to investigate cases 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.000 to make sure that they have enough evidence to gain 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.240 a conviction if their case goes to trial. In fact, 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.800 the guidelines for the US Attorney's Office require that prosecutors 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.160 cannot go into a grand jury and present a case 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:58.360 for indictment unless they believe that they have evidence that 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.720 would be admissible at trial that is likely to result 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.680 in a conviction. So here it seems like there was 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.480 a real rush to judgment where they went out and 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.320 they indicted based on limited information that was coming from 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.440 the Interior Department, and it turned out, according to the 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.640 Department of Justice, to not be true. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.719 It seemed like an overcharge to me to charge, even 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.840 if there was some vandalism, to charge him with a felony, 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.719 you know, with the max being ten years. It reminded 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.040 me of the you know, the case of the guy 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:34.040 now known as the sandwich guy, who tossed a sandwich 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.479 at an ice agent and Piro tried to charge him 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.840 with a felony, but the grand jury wouldn't return a 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:43.920 felony indictment. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.760 No, I think that's a fair point, because let's keep 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.800 in mind that this case turned on a single count 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.800 of property destruction, which carries a maximum sentence of ten 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.320 years or up to ten years in prison if there 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.159 is a conviction, and the lee to removing this case 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.799 from a misdemeanor, which would only allow a prison sentence 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.200 of up to a year, to a felony, which in 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.920 this case allows a prison sentence of up to ten 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.760 years is the government's ability to prove that the defendant 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.680 caused at least one thousand dollars in damage to the pool. 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.480 What ended up happening here is that the defense council 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.719 focused on that damages issue, because what they were trying 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.120 to do is at a minimum, move this case from 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.200 a felony back to a misdemeanor by trying to show 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.520 that the government could not meet that one thousand dollars threshold, 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.560 And they focused on testimony that apparently occurred in the 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.800 grand jury in order to obtain this indictment, where the 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.159 government apparently presented only one witness on that element, on 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:51.400 that critical element of showing that the damage caused allegedly 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.760 by this defendant was at least one thousand dollars. According 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.839 to the defense, that witness testified that the property had 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:03.839 already deteriorate, that the pool had already begun to fall 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.680 apart in terms of the lining coming up from the bottom, 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.719 and that the repairs that would have been needed would 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.240 have been needed even without mister Hearn's alleged conduct, and 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.120 that the witness testified also that he could not quantify 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.040 any loss. This is according to the defense, caused by 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.159 the alleged conduct of the defendant. So they were really 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.800 already attacking not only the question of whether their client 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.120 committed any crime at all, but they were focusing on 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.920 whether the government could meet this thousand dollars threshold that 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.960 they used to turn this case from a misdemeanor into 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:39.560 a felony. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.760 I'm wondering about the timing here, because they dropped the 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:48.200 charges shortly after the defense was trying to get the 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:52.359 grand jury transcripts because of what they said were irregularities 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.640 in the process. And we have seen in several instances 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:05.000 irregularities in the presentation of by federal prosecutors to grand juries, 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.600 and I'm wondering if that might have been an impetus 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.320 for dropping the case as well, that those would have 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.160 been revealed. Now, that's exactly right. 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.520 That was what the defense had focused on, and according 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.679 to the defense, the sole witness that the government relied 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.440 on to prove damages did not even say or suggest 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.240 that the alleged conduct by mister Hearn had compromised the 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.320 liner at all, and in fact, in the charging document 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:37.800 he was simply charged with touching some of the liner 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.400 that had floated to the surface. According to the prosecution, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.520 even in the indictment, he was accused of pulling up 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.120 a two foot square piece of the pools lining. Now, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.680 the defendant's version of what happened, and this is a 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.000 statement he gave just before his arrest, is that he 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.480 was biking and he pulled over to the pool there 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.680 and put his and in the reflecting pool. And he 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.239 said that he reached in to examine the pool's newly 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:09.800 peeled coding and briefly touched a chunk attached to the 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.080 side of the pool. But he said that he obeyed 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.800 a part worker who was standing right there with him 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.520 and told him to let it go. So he basically 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.200 said he did absolutely nothing to in any way vandalize 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.880 the reflecting pool. And it seems that the government's witness 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:31.040 largely corroborated the defendant's statement, and that is perhaps the 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.840 reason why we're seeing this sudden dismissal of this indictment, 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:39.640 because again, it's so exceedingly rare that prosecutors will fully 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.760 dismiss a case rather than try to plead it down 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.920 to a misdemeanor or work out some kind of a 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:50.480 plea deal. Here it seems that the grand jury testimony 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.439 that the defense was pressing for and that a judge 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:58.440 would likely require prosecutors to turn over may have completely 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.880 undermined the prosecution's case. And before that happened, it seems 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.160 that Janine Piro, the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.760 felt that she had no choice but to dismiss the case. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:15.800 President Trump is exceedingly angry about this. He said that 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.440 he disagreed one hundred percent with what she did. To me, 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.720 it was a pure case of vandalism. If he installs 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.960 a new US attorney for DC, is it possible that 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.600 a new US attorney could bring these charges again? 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:30.160 Well, I think it's. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.920 Possible that a US attorney could bring the charges, but 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.000 I think the defense would have an ample basis to 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.280 try to move to dismiss them. And at the end 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.000 of the day, it doesn't seem like the facts here 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:45.080 are going to change. What was really extraordinary here was 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:49.320 that not only did Miss Pierro dismiss these charges, but 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.080 she did so or the government did so in a 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.280 twenty page court filing, with the judge in the case 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.000 saying that they had been provided with additional documents by 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.480 the Interior Department since the indictment showing that the damage 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:08.240 was a result of a botched installation by a contractor, 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.199 as well as the quote rushed to complete the project 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.160 prior to events associated with the America two fifty celebration 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:20.480 in the week surrounding Independence Day twenty twenty six. So 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:26.040 what's really unusual here is that this dismissal didn't solely 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.319 focus on the conduct of this defendant. In other words, 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.440 it wasn't simply saying, this is why we have to 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.800 dismiss this case against this defendant. Instead, it was a 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:40.280 broad rebuke of the entire concept that any of the 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:44.640 damage caused by the reflecting poll was done by vandals. 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:49.320 It really completely undermined the narrative that came not only 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:53.600 from President Trump, but also from the Interior Secretary, who 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.880 took a completely different position and immediately issued a statement 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.800 saying that the Interior Department provided the US Attorney's Office 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.479 with expert and eyewitness testimonies to the damage done by vandals, 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.160 and provided every piece of evidence they asked for and 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.080 in the requested timeline detailing each area of damage to 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.280 the pool. So what we're seeing here is really an 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:21.320 unheard of scenario where you have one branch of government 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:25.520 blaming and criticizing the other, a dispute between the Department 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.480 of Justice and the President, the dispute between the Department 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.480 of Justice and the Interior Department, and all of this 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:35.040 is playing out in full public view. It's really something 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.640 that is extraordinary and is unheard of where you see 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.920 this type of internal debate within the government being played 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.600 out on the national stage in full public view on 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.000 such a high profile issue. And given the high profile 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:54.520 nature of this prosecution, because of all of the publicity 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:58.960 surrounding the reflecting pool and Independence Day and the very 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:03.640 high profile make sure that the President made these repairs 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.120 and having it ready in time for Independence Day. It 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.000 really is extraordinary that the US Attorney has blamed the 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.440 Interior Department and really come very close to saying that 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.679 they were misled. Janeine Piro actually said that they would 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.560 never have brought this case had they known of the 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.440 evidence that was being withheld withheld from the Department of 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.680 Justice by the Interior Department. That is an extraordinary charge 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.120 from one agency to another. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.120 This is one embarrassment for the DC US Attorney. They 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.360 also had the Sandwich guy case that I mentioned where 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.040 a jury didn't even convict him of a misdemeanor. You 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.160 have the case where they tried to get lawmakers indicted 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.600 over the video that they made telling soldiers that they 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.520 don't have to obey orders that are illegal, and then 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.640 you had the failed subpoenas for former Fed Chair Jerome Powell. 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.800 So I mean, it's been one thing after another with 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:02.800 this office. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.720 Well, it certainly does lend credibility to those people who 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:12.120 have criticized the office of responding to outside pressures, those 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.640 often coming from the White House to bring criminal cases, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.319 and there appears to be in many of these cases 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.439 a rush to judgment where prosecutors have to either dismiss 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.600 charges when they find out that the evidence that they 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.319 thought they had doesn't actually exist, or in some cases, 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.160 grand jury is simply refusing to even return indictments in 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:38.240 cases where prosecutors believe they have enough evidence to proceed 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:39.120 with the criminal case. 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.439 And as far as this case, we may hear more 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.480 in the future from the defense because turns attorneys say 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.280 they're looking at all possible remedies. Thanks so much, Bob. 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:55.240 As always, that's Robert Mints of Macarter and English how 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.120 hew help us. 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:04.160 Hey, you guys, come ices here, help us, help us. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.880 If you go to an airport in the US these days, 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.960 you may see a different kind of scene from the 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:16.359 usual endless lines. ICE agents roaming around and arresting immigrants 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:22.520 who have expired visas and sometimes facing opposition from concerned bystanders. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:29.200 What's going on? Law enforcement? That's going on? The rights that? 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:34.840 What's going on? Okay, we're annoying? Are you okay? Back? 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.080 Come on, come on, come on, come on. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.240 Whether it's l A, X, JFK, or any of about 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.200 thirteen other major airports, ICE is opening up a new 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.880 front in its drive to make two thousand arrests a day, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.040 and arrests at airports are made easier these days by 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:03.280 a new cooperation arrangement between ICE and TSA join me 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.160 is an expert in immigration law. Leon Fresco a partner 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:07.960 at Hollanden Night. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:08.680 Leon. 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.760 Are these airport arrests something new? 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.160 Well, it's not completely new, meaning it's not that it's 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.840 never happened before. But what is happening is that ICE, 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.040 under the threat of needing to arrest two thousand people 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:26.280 a day, is increasingly arresting people at US airports, and 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.600 that's happening because when you're at an airport, you obviously 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.160 don't have weapons, you're in a controlled environment. It's easier 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:35.880 for ICE to be able to arrest you. So what 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:40.600 happens is TSA is doing information sharing with ICE, and 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.760 that's what's new. And now that TSA is doing information 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.520 sharing with ICE, they have the manifest of the people 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.840 who are going to be crossing the TSA that morning. 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.040 Just like now, if you cross, you barely sometimes don't 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.480 even need to show your ticket anymore. You just show 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.240 your face and you go right through. They know everybody 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.080 who's coming, why they're coming, what they're coming for. And 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.720 so when one of these individuals that ICE is uncertain 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.320 as to their status, rings the bell essentially and then 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.600 shows up, then now TSA is referring to those individuals 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.840 to ICE and is asking them, hey, prove that you're 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.920 here legally. And a lot of people are in these 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.080 quasi statuses. So that's the problem. Some people who are 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.960 undocumented completely. Yes, those people are being arrested, they're being detained, 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.520 they're being placed in removal proceedings. But the more complicated 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.240 issue is there's a lot of people whose cases have 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.840 been pending for many, many months because the administration has 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:42.960 decided to dramatically slow down the legal immigration system, including 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.160 pausing it for people from many countries. Although there's currently 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.400 an injunction preventing that, but there's still many people who 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:54.080 are stuck behind that pause as the backlog developed for many, 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.640 many months from that pause, and so a lot of 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.560 people who should normally be able to fly domestic in 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.800 the United States are now terrified to fly because they're 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.280 worried they won't be able to explain their complicated pending 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.480 immigration status to an ICE agent who's incentivides to arrest them. 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.680 From what I've been seeing, a lot of the people 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.359 where their arrests have been documented on you know video 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.840 by bystanders, a lot of them have expired visas, I 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:24.040 mean expired for years. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.160 Well, what happens is this, So let's say you are 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.080 an Indian national. This is a perfect example of this. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.600 So the Indian national comes to the United States on 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:40.320 a student visa that might have been valid on April first, 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.120 twenty twenty as an example, that may have been when 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.360 they got their stamp to originally come into the United States. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:48.959 A lot of Indian nationals many of them who are 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.800 my clients, never leave the country again after they first 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.720 arrived as a student. They stay for all the years 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.760 they're a student. They change their status from inside the 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.520 United States to what's the H one B visa status, 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.960 and then the problem is there's a backlog because only 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.720 seven percent of all green cards each year are allowed 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.760 to go to one country. So for Indian nationals, the 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:17.000 green card backlog is like eighty years, one hundred years. 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.880 So they don't leave, they just stay and so that 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:25.600 initial visa stamp is expired, but their status is lawful. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.520 They just need to show this document called an I 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.440 seven ninety seven that has the approval of their most 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.679 recent extension of their H one B status from inside 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.120 the United States. The problem is most people don't carry 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.160 those documents around on a domestic flight, but now they 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:47.960 better because the point is if you show a visa 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.639 that is because the visa expiration on your passport only 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.680 says the last date you're allowed to enter the United States. 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.800 It says nothing about whether you're currently in legal status. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.840 So many people will have extended their status through a 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.400 number of ways. But now people are going to need 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.080 to be very careful to sort of have an exa 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.920 Jesus written by an immigration lawyer with supporting documents that 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.399 they can just hand to an ICE agent and say, 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.760 here you go, here's all the proof you need. Please 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.879 let me board my flight to Cleveland. Now. So that's 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:20.880 now we're in a completely new world now. 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.639 So let's say someone with an expired visa is traveling 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.879 and ICE picks them up. Some of these people have 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.480 applied for asylum. What happens next? Are they taken into custody. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.280 So what needs to happen is first they need to 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.600 try to figure out if the person is here lawfully 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.920 or not. But the question is even there, what are 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.359 they doing. Are they doing this from like, you know, 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.720 we'll detain you first and ask questions later, or are 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.200 they asking the questions first at the airport and letting 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.880 people out. So I've been very interested in this because 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.120 I have a lot of clients in this field, and 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.439 most of the clients I have who've been detained have 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.520 been let out at the airport. But I you cannot 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.600 prove that you have a lawful status. They are detaining you, 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.080 and they're putting you in detention until your removal proceedings 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.560 are over. So you won't get out. So here you 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.240 are thinking you are doing a flight from Houston to Cleveland, 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.440 and now you're in detention until that you get deported 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.160 or until you win your case. And so there are 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.280 some people who are entitled to bond hearings, and so 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.840 those people can ask to be let out on bond 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:30.080 while their immigration detention case is going on. But the 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.200 families of those people are going to need to find 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.440 wherever they've been detained and find what immigration court their 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.480 case is pending, and hire a lawyer and file a 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.639 bond hearing and argue that bond case. So all of 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.480 that is again a completely new world from the world 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:46.879 that previously. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:50.040 Existed, and d just just cares that it's counting as 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:51.320 an arrest that day. 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.000 Right exactly. So now you have a much larger number 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.879 of people you can arrest. Of course, this is something 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.800 of rapidly diminish returns because if people now know they're 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:04.879 gonna get arrested at the airport, you might have gotten 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.920 a good spike initially, but what you've essentially accomplished is 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.400 a ban on domestic flying for undocumented individuals because now 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.880 they know, okay, don't take the airport. So maybe we'll 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.960 move to the boss next, or or the train or something. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:22.159 I don't know what will happen next. But the point is, 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.200 if this keeps going on, that's really just what's gonna 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.879 happen is you're just not gonna see First of all, 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:32.600 for sure undocumented people flying, but even documented people who 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.280 are not lawful permanent residents or who are not citizens 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:37.280 may decide, you know what, I don't need to take 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.479 this flight. I don't need this aggravation. And so that 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:42.680 might not be so great for the economy if people 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.480 aren't flying who have every lawful reason to be in 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:46.760 the United States. 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:51.159 TSA, and they're all in the Department of Homeland Security. 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:52.800 All part of the Department of Homeland Security. But what's 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:57.080 new is TSA didn't share previously the passenger manifests of 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.920 who was coming in every day to the airport with eyes. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.159 So now they're sharing that, and so now ICE knows 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.280 who's coming into the airport that day, and ICE can 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.280 then cross reference it with its databases and say, okay, 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.440 I want you to select number sixty two, number seventy eight, 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.720 number four hundred and twelve, number three hundred and seventy one. 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.600 And when those people go through the system, because now everyone, 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.639 you don't just walk through now you actually scan an 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.200 ID and take a picture and everything. So when those 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.600 people do those things, the alarm bell immediately goes off, 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.640 bing bing bing. They get referred to ICE, and now 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.919 ICE starts talking to those individuals about what their status is. 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.680 So that came from the top, right, that came. 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:42.240 From the top. That is a THHS leadership director. 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:44.840 They said that they've arrested a million people. Is that 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.440 a million since the beginning of the Trump administration? 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:49.879 I think that is a million since the beginning of 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.000 the Trump administration because at the end of the day, 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:56.240 they wouldn't have had the ability to arrest two million 0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.200 people over the course of just one year. So I'm 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.760 pretty sure it's a million since the beginning of the 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:03.760 Trump administration. 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:05.719 And what did they promise three million? 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.240 Well, what they promised was three thousand arrests per day, 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.719 and they're nowhere near three thousand arrests per day, and 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.800 so yeah, that would have been over a million per year. 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:18.200 So if you do obviously three hundred and sixty five 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:21.040 times three thousand arrests, that's where you get to the 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:25.240 million per year. You're not getting that right now, So let's. 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.800 Turn to TPS Temporary protected status. Three hundred and fifty 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.920 thousand Haitians and Syrians had the way for their deportation 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:38.800 cleared by the Supreme Court last month. What's happening with that? 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:40.400 Are they all being picked up? 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.199 Well, what I'm seeing anecdotally in the field is people 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:49.040 with TPS who've lost their TPS are now getting letters 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.800