1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast. Get ready for 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 2: this ride. Apple store creator Ron Johnson is a South 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: After speaker board member. Authors book is called Shop Different, 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 2: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius. He has served as CEO 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 2: of J. C. Penny, best known for creating the Apples stores, 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 2: working directly with the late Steve Jobs while serving as 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: a member of Apple's executive team. Ron, Welcome to the program. 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: Good to have you with us. 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 3: Thank you, George. It's great to be here. I don't 11 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 3: ever stay up this late, so you accomplish something big. 12 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: This is super JC Penny stores and all that. I 13 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: remember all those things. 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 3: You've got a good memory and they're great. 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: What do you think of Amazon and what they've done 16 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: to retail? 17 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 3: You know, I think it's been amazing for people. I 18 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 3: know so many people. They've got two hundred million Prime members. 19 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 3: That's a lot of people who depend on Amazon all 20 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 3: the time. But the fallacy is that it's hurt retail. 21 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 3: It's actually helped retail and people you know in the internet, 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: you know, came and online shopping starting back in two thousand, 23 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 3: twenty seven years ago, people predicted the demise of stores, 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 3: but in many ways, stores have never been better. And 25 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 3: the best way to look at it is, who's Amazon? George, 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 3: Who don't think Amazon's biggest physical competitor would be in 27 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: the US? In other words, where would you go if 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: you weren't shopping in Amazon? If you wanted to buy 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: something at low price and have a lot of choices. 30 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: I'd say Walmart? 31 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 3: Probably right, And so Walmart would obviously with Amazon's success, 32 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 3: that's it would be impacted. Right. Well, Amazon's market cap 33 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: in two thousand, you know, the market capitalization was one 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: hundred thirty billion dollars. Today it's a trillion dollars. Wow, 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 3: so it's eight times larger than it was in two thousand. 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 3: Has Amazon's grown and you know it does about half 37 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 3: of online shopping. But the reality is, you know, every 38 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: physical retailer had to adopt a digital strategy like Amazon did, 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 3: like Walmart did, and today they've got physical stores and 40 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 3: digital stores and online stores, and it creates what's called 41 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 3: omni channel, where you got the best of both, and 42 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 3: that's allowed stores to become much much more productive, and 43 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 3: it's actually created a better shopping experience for customers and 44 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 3: the physical The online retailers like Amazon are fighting back 45 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 3: by opening their own stores on Amazon two the years 46 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 3: is open their Amazon ghost stores to try to convenience stores. 47 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: They bought Whole Foods to get in the grocery business. 48 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 3: They're now opening a big supercenter outside of Chicago and 49 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,839 Speaker 3: one of the northern suburbs to see if they can't 50 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: compete better. Because the reality what Walmart does is every 51 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: store is a place to shop, but it's also a 52 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: distribution center that's five to seven miles from a customer, 53 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: where Amazon's distribution centers are fifty miles away. And so 54 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 3: Walmart has just a more productive model and everyone knows that. 55 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: And so the reality is Amazon's an amazing thing. It's 56 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 3: but it's really made retail better versus graded the death 57 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: of retail stores. 58 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: What happened to the kmarts in the sears robots. 59 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: Well they went away because they were tired. You know, Camart, Camart, 60 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: Walmart and Target all started in nineteen sixty one, that's 61 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 3: when the discount store was created. Kmart grew the fastest early, 62 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: but Walm was lower price, Target was better merchandise. Kmart 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 3: went away because there's really not room in the world 64 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: for three identical format stores. And Kmart was the worst 65 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 3: managed of those three. It was kind of stuck in 66 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 3: the middle. And Kmart killed wool prices or the fashion. 67 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: And Kamart killed Woolworth, didn't it. 68 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, they did. 69 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: But that's the nature of retail. You know what happens 70 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 3: is the thing that doesn't work in retail is tired stores. 71 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: You know, stores that get tired, that don't stay updated. 72 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: People always go to the next new thing, and so 73 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 3: you got it. If you're in retail, you got to 74 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 3: keep refreshing your store. The Gap is a perfect example. 75 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 3: You know, when I started the Apple stores, the Gap 76 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 3: was like the leading specialty store in the world. Mickey 77 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 3: Drexler was in charge, great merchandise. Oh remember, I'll forget 78 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 3: Sharon Stone wearing a black T shirt to the asters. 79 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: Now the gap was, was it? Then they went through 80 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 3: a period where they lost their way. Now they've got 81 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 3: a new team back. They've got a marketing guy from 82 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 3: came out of Mattel. They've got Zach Posen who's a 83 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: great creative director, and they're executing and they're coming back 84 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 3: because they've got their mojo back, and that's what retail takes. 85 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 3: Tired stores are not work. Fresh new things is where 86 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: the customer goes. 87 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: You went to Harvard Business School. What was your goal 88 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: run when you got out? 89 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 3: Well, when I got out, I, like most people, I 90 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 3: was looking at going into investment banking or consulting because 91 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: they were high pain. But then I had this thought that, 92 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: you know, what would I really want to do for 93 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 3: a lifetime. And I'd met a lot of people that 94 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 3: came to visit our classes. After they we studied their cases, 95 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: and they are the CEOs of these industries, and the 96 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: best ones, the ones I admired had began their career 97 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 3: when they're really young in that industry and they became experts. 98 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 3: And so I came out of business school. My goal 99 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: was to become an expert at retail line and so 100 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 3: I turned down an offer during Goldman's Semina group, and 101 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 3: I went to unload trucks at a retail store in 102 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: the San Fernando Valley in LA and I began my 103 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 3: retail career learning, you know, in the store, and then 104 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: I eventually be came a merchant and went on and on, 105 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: and you know, I'm here. I wrote the book because 106 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: I was had the privilege of creating the Apple stores. 107 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: There's over five hundred and thirty Apple stores today, aren't there. 108 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: My last came. 109 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 3: Exactly five hundred and thirty, and I had the privilege 110 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: of being a part of four hundred of those, you know, 111 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 3: so about seventy five eighty percent, which was a real honor. 112 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: How did that get together with you and Steve Jobs occur? 113 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 3: Well, Steve, I had been at a Target in the 114 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 3: nineties and I had the last big thing I did 115 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 3: there was I had this insight of this thought that 116 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 3: why does good design have to be so expensive? You know, 117 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: most of the products people bock back back then were 118 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 3: very functional, very They just did stuff like a tea 119 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: kettle at Target. We cost a nine to ninety nine 120 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 3: and you could heat water and make tea, but it 121 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: wasn't very nice to look at. And there were products 122 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 3: in these boutique stores that might cost one hundred and 123 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: fifty dollars, but they had better materials and were really beautiful. 124 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 3: They had form and functions, and I just got inspired. 125 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: Or what if Target had great design and used our 126 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: sourcing power to lower the price. What if we had 127 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 3: twenty five dollars tea kettles, for example, I'd be a 128 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: lot more expensive than we carried today, but it'd be 129 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: a lot substantially less than you would pay for really 130 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 3: good design objects. And so we did a collection with 131 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: an architect named Michael Graves who had been a household 132 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: name in the eighties and had done a few objects, 133 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: mainly known for buildings and homes, but he had done 134 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: a few luxury home goods. And I asked him what 135 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: he liked to design for Target, and he said, I'd 136 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: love to. And that was actually the first George retail 137 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: collaboration where a retailer went to someone said would you 138 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: design for us and we'll market it under your name? 139 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: And those are very commonplace today, but I did that 140 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 3: and Steve, at the same time that I was doing 141 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: design at Target, had come back to Apple and he 142 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 3: loved design and had done the iMac, which was a 143 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: beautiful item you might remember from the nineties and plastic, 144 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 3: beautiful colors, nice to look at, easy to use, but 145 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: it didn't change the game for Apple. It sold well 146 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: but to the Apple faithful, and so Steve concluded from 147 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: that that if he was going to win, he had 148 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 3: to control the customer experience. You know, Microsoft had won 149 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 3: the PC. The early days of the PC were with 150 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 3: ninety five percent market share, Apple had about five. But 151 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 3: Apple wouldn't even be carried at place like Best Buyer 152 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: Circus City because Apple was too small. And so Steve 153 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 3: thought that if he was going to win, he had 154 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: to open his own stores. And he reached out to 155 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 3: someone and said, can you find who's doing that design 156 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: stuff at Target? I'd like to meet him. And I 157 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 3: went and met Steve and we spent about three hours 158 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 3: together one November evening. And the next time I saw him, 159 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: he said, I'd love to offer you the job to 160 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 3: create the Apple stores with me. And I chose to 161 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 3: do that. And just like I left Harvard Business School 162 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,479 Speaker 3: to learn retail, I left Target to move from merchandising 163 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 3: to getting a chance to create an entire retail experience 164 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: from the ground up. You know, the store dees on 165 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 3: the real estate locations, who would we hire, how would 166 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 3: you serve people? What would features be in the store? 167 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 3: I was inspired by the chance to work with Steve 168 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 3: to do something completely original. 169 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: Was Washtieck involved with you two for a while? 170 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 3: He wasn't. No, he had left. He had left the 171 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 3: company quite a bit before too. Now, was was one 172 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 3: of our best guys that come into a new store 173 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 3: opening or a product launch. You know, he loved to 174 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 3: connect with the Apple customer base, the faithful, but he 175 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 3: was not involved with the retail stores or really with 176 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 3: Steve much. I don't believe during. 177 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 4: My time to Apple, and I know you're gonna want 178 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 4: some them after hearing this. This is an amazing story. 179 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 4: We've got Steven and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand. 180 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 4: I understand that Malachi, who is eight almost nine years 181 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 4: old now, was suffering with not just one or two warts, 182 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 4: but I mean as significant outbreak of warts all over 183 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 4: his body, so significant it impacted his ability to really function. 184 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil 185 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 5: to right. It was Tie's book actually that got me 186 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 5: thinking about it. 187 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: I'm not surprised. 188 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 4: It is an amazing immunal modulator, and so I can 189 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 4: see that it would work. And so at what point 190 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 4: did you see that there was actually improvement it's really 191 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 4: going to work. 192 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 5: Well, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks. 193 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 5: You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller 194 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 5: and then going down to with just little red marks. 195 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 5: The whole things are gone, and we're talking about what's 196 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 5: you know one the size of the warner. I thought, 197 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 5: no way, that's gonna Wow. That's just been miraculous to 198 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 5: see him get into a pair of shoes. 199 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: Yes, how wonderful. 200 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 5: It's great to see him so happy and yeah. 201 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 4: Competent, absolutely wonderful. 202 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: Friends that have seen it, that is blown away. 203 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: TI, this is awesome. 204 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is awesome. 205 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 6: Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them 206 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 6: to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called 207 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 6: one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five. 208 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 6: That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven 209 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 6: thirty five. Or visit Carnivora dot com c A r 210 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 6: niv O r A Carnivora dot com. 211 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 2: And the Apple stores started in two thousand and one. 212 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: The iPhone, which is really what fuels this company today. 213 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: It came out in two thousand and seven. Did you 214 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: did you anticipate the phone sales when you started the 215 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: Apple store? 216 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 3: You know when we started. Now, when we started the 217 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 3: Apple stores, all we had were four computers. But and 218 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 3: we had four computers and four billion dollars in the bank. Yeah, 219 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 3: And Steve and I met and he said, you know, 220 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: I've got cruel to open four stores, that's all. I'm 221 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 3: not coming for a test. I said, I'm not going 222 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 3: to give up a great career at Target that's become 223 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: Tarja to test stores. If you really believe that that's 224 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: your competitive weakness, and if you want to go all 225 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 3: in on stores, I will come in and help you 226 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 3: do it. And he looked at me and he said, Ron, 227 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 3: I've got a billion dollars in the bank. If I 228 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 3: could have one hundred stores now I have had four 229 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 3: billion in the bank. I would write a billion dollar 230 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 3: check right now for one hundred stores. And I said, well, 231 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 3: if you'll do that, I'll come and I'll help you 232 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: do this. And so what we did, though, is we 233 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 3: didn't test stores. We methodically opened twenty five stores a 234 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 3: year because we had to get a footprint out there 235 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 3: where everywhere in the US in places where Apple did 236 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: well the United Kingdom, Japan, France. Then we had stores, 237 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 3: and once we had those, we started to roll out 238 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 3: some additional products. The first one was the iPod as 239 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 3: you know, the music player, that's right. We put a 240 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 3: thousand songs in people's pockets. And when the iPod went 241 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 3: to windows, Wow, the stores got busy. And that was 242 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 3: two thousand and four when it went to windows, three 243 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 3: years after our first store. And then in two thousand 244 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: and six seven we did the iPhone, and that's the 245 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 3: one that you know is half of Apple's revenue today. 246 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: That's really made Apple what it is. But we didn't 247 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 3: know that when we opened the stores, you know. But 248 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: they became just huge opportunities for the stores to have impact. 249 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: And our stores, which started out doing about ten million 250 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: dollars a year when I left, we're doing fifty million 251 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: dollars a year in every single retail store. 252 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: It's amazing. And what what what year did you leave? 253 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: RN? I left right at the beginning, the very end 254 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: of twenty eleven. 255 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: That's why Steve Jobs died, isn't it. Yeah? 256 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: No, I except I went to him six months before 257 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 3: it passed away and told him that it was time 258 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: for me to leave Apple, and he was very supportive. 259 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 3: And then three days later he called me up and said, Ron, 260 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 3: can you come by the house? I said sure, And 261 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 3: he was pretty ill, had been for a number of years, 262 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 3: and he said, you know, I got just one request. 263 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 3: The doctors have told me I've got six months to live, 264 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 3: I'd love you to stay till I pass and I 265 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 3: told I would, of course. And so I went back. 266 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 5: To J C. 267 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 3: Penny and said, you know, we can announce that I'm coming, 268 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 3: but let's say it's going to be in about six months. 269 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: And Steve passed five months later, and then I went 270 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: to J C. Penny the month after he died. 271 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: Was Steve Jobs the genius that was depicted in the 272 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: movie that the Kutcher played. 273 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: Much more so. Steve was an absolute brilliant human being, 274 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 3: a phenomenal leader, but I think quite misunderstood, you know. 275 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 3: And that's one of the It's not a reason I 276 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 3: wrote the book, but one of the things I'm most 277 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 3: proud of because as I wrote the book, which comes 278 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 3: out of September twenty second, I talk a lot about it. 279 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 7: The game right now, huh, yeah, I'm ahead of the game, 280 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 7: but I talk a lot about my relationship with Steve 281 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 7: and how important he was to making the store successful, 282 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 7: and how important he was to establish in standards that 283 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 7: Internet Apple tried. 284 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: To achieve that were higher than they could imagine on 285 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 3: their own. So Steve was just a great leader who 286 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: wanted to do great things, a perfectionist who always let 287 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 3: the best idea win. But he was brilliant and just 288 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 3: a blessing to work with. 289 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: I would say that the combination of the iPhone and 290 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: the stores made Apple what it is today. 291 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, George, I appreciate your feeling on that. You know, 292 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 3: a lot of people look at Apple as a product company, 293 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 3: but there had to be a place for people to 294 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 3: discover those products, and that's what people forget. Back in 295 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 3: two thousand, we open our stores. You could couldn't try 296 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: a product in a retail store, you know, they were 297 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 3: in boxes. And you know, we brought in these stores 298 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 3: and we put all these products on display and they 299 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 3: were loaded as software. They're connected to the internet, and 300 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 3: you could come in and learn how to use technology. 301 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 3: And this was before people had technology. Only half of 302 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: America had a personal computer. When we opened the retail stores, 303 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 3: ninety percent of people were still taking pictures with film 304 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 3: and getting it developed at their local store and then 305 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 3: making scrapbooks, you know. And so we we were there 306 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 3: when the digital revolution happened and the stores became these 307 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: magnets for people and even people who didn't use technology 308 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 3: or didn't have an Apple product, loved going to the store, 309 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 3: and they'd hang out there all day long. And then 310 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 3: when Apple finally had products that appealed to everybody, like 311 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 3: the iPod music player and then the phone, they went 312 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 3: to the Apple store to discover them. And so it's 313 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 3: hard to imagine the products being successful without the stores. 314 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 3: It's also hard to imagine the stores being successful without 315 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 3: the products. So the conclusion is that was just a really, 316 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 3: really smart strategic move by Steve to open stores. 317 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: Now, how did JG. Penny recruit you? 318 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 3: Well, that what happened there is I was getting you 319 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 3: a point where I had been at Apple for a 320 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 3: dozen years and my work had become kind of a hobby. 321 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: I was turning fifty, and I kind of felt that 322 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: if I was going to do one more thing, you know, 323 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 3: now's the time to do it. And about the same 324 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 3: time I began thinking about that, a couple of New 325 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: York guys Bill Ackman, you might have heard of them, 326 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 3: Steve Roth, who was the CEO of one of the 327 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 3: large real estate groups, had made an investment in J. C. 328 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 3: Penny as activists, and they had room for one more 329 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 3: board member. They were given the right to put on 330 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 3: three board members, the two of them and one other, 331 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 3: and they called to see if I'd like to join 332 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 3: the board, and I thought that'd be kind of fun 333 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 3: because I had grown up going to J C. 334 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 2: Penny. 335 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 3: It was at the mall near my home. When I 336 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 3: was at Mervin's and Target, I competed with J C. Penny. 337 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 3: When I was looking for real estate for the Apple Store, 338 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: I actually would park at J C. Penny because it 339 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 3: was the least crowded store at the wall. You could 340 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: always get parking and remember whe your card was. But 341 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 3: I had known J C. Penny for a long time, 342 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 3: but I was kind of inspired. I always liked the 343 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 3: hard challenge and the idea of going to a hundred 344 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 3: year old department store that had lost its way and 345 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 3: to try to transform it. I found very inspiring. 346 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at 347 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam 348 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: dot com for more