Speaker 1: Welcome to the crime round up.
Speaker 2: Y'all.
Speaker 1: We got an update for you today. Nat Sick, good morning,
Speaker 1: Good morning.
Speaker 2: I take you as somebody stayed up late last night celebrating.
Speaker 2: Because either you said that late celebrating or there is
Speaker 2: a frog living.
Speaker 1: In your throat. I might have been up a little
Speaker 1: late being grateful.
Speaker 2: Now, wait a minute, aren't you in Vegas.
Speaker 1: I am in Sholo, Arizona.
Speaker 2: It's that near Vegas.
Speaker 1: It's about six hours. I think.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, well, I know you aren't playing the crap
Speaker 2: tables last night. Can we talk about something other than
Speaker 2: you and the crap tables.
Speaker 1: When we were in our twenties, Mary Max, to me,
Speaker 1: was always a place that we would save for, like
Speaker 1: celebrating something, acknowledging something. So I'm saying, once I get
Speaker 1: back home and what you're free, we need to celebrate something.
Speaker 2: It marry Matt and I already know what I'm gonna get.
Speaker 2: I'm getting a vegetable plate, vegetable plight with the double
Speaker 2: collars of corn bread, a squashed passwall, and some surprise
Speaker 2: I don't know what it means. Maybe broccoli, I'm not sure. Cheese, grits, yes,
Speaker 2: that yes, amazing we're talking, of course, about Melissa Wilson Berger.
Speaker 2: You start because I am overwhelmed. You know, sometimes, Cheryl
Speaker 2: and our line of work, we're used to getting knocked
Speaker 2: down open and over and over. We're used to things
Speaker 2: not going our way in court, We're used to sing injustice.
Speaker 2: But when it happens, it's all worth it. It makes
Speaker 2: all the years of working this case worth it. And
Speaker 2: you have worked this case.
Speaker 1: Honey. We have this case. And I'll tell you, anybody
Speaker 1: that got to listen to crime Stories with Natcy Grace
Speaker 1: yesterday heard it in Joe Scott Morgan's voice. We have
Speaker 1: worked this case for seven years, but the family has
Speaker 1: lived with it for twenty five. That's just an amazing number.
Speaker 1: But this all started November of nineteen ninety eight. That's
Speaker 1: the last time Melissa spoke to her mama. And then nothing,
Speaker 1: not a word, not a letter, Nobody saw her, nobody
Speaker 1: heard from her. And we took this case on. And
Speaker 1: I remember the first time you and I talked about it.
Speaker 1: We didn't have DNA, we didn't have an eyewitness, we
Speaker 1: didn't have any new evidence come forward. But honey, we
Speaker 1: worked it.
Speaker 2: You know, when I first started churing cases, Cheryl, there
Speaker 2: was no such thing. Yeah, well, we didn't know how
Speaker 2: to use it for insticcely, of course it existed, DNA,
Speaker 2: dioxy ribonicolinic acid. When I would have to try a
Speaker 2: rape case, the best I had I could have. Well,
Speaker 2: we can tell the journey that the rapist had Type
Speaker 2: A blood and the defendant has Type A blood. Or
Speaker 2: we can say this pubic care came from a redheaded
Speaker 2: white male and the defendant is a redheaded white male.
Speaker 2: That could be anybody. Right then the advent of DNA,
Speaker 2: but this case, at the time that Melissa Wolf and
Speaker 2: Barker went missing, no DNA nothing. And now, of course
Speaker 2: the way that her skull, oh please don't even say
Speaker 2: skull what I look back and realized, and that her
Speaker 2: skull was miss identified as a white male. Yes, for
Speaker 2: all that time. Yes, it just it just actually makes
Speaker 2: my stomach hurt thinking about when I talked to the
Speaker 2: mother and the sister yesterday, the pain. They held it
Speaker 2: together really well for a long time, and then at
Speaker 2: the end of our program Crime Stories, it just they
Speaker 2: couldn't take it anymore when they were describing when they
Speaker 2: were told that the remains were Melissa, just that pain
Speaker 2: is right there at the surface. And you know, you
Speaker 2: and I have discussed this many times in private, but
Speaker 2: when I hear other crime victims talking that way, it
Speaker 2: made my chest hurt because always just below the surface
Speaker 2: for crime victims, that pain, it's right there. And the
Speaker 2: day before had been the day that my fiance had
Speaker 2: been murdered many years before. You know, I sold her
Speaker 2: do day, you know, focusing on work, focusing on the twins,
Speaker 2: focusing on anything but that. But when I heard Melissa's
Speaker 2: mother and sister break down in tears, I felt like
Speaker 2: it was me breaking down in tears. I mean, just
Speaker 2: that pain never goes away, much less for your child.
Speaker 2: That was her child, and I felt so bad for her. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, your life with Keith is always there. Her
Speaker 2: life with Melissa is always there. But that ended that
Speaker 2: somebody took them, that somebody did something so horrible for them.
Speaker 1: Yesterday. Here's what I watched. The entire time I've known them,
Speaker 1: they've been fighting. Once that fight ended, they had a
Speaker 1: release yesterday of all those emotions. They were able to
Speaker 1: give up that fight and now turn it into We're
Speaker 1: going to see this through. We know who, we know how,
Speaker 1: we know when and now they've got to pay for
Speaker 1: what they did.
Speaker 2: The bombshell is he's in custody. A man has finally
Speaker 2: been arrested, twenty five years after Melissa's body's found dismembered,
Speaker 2: dismembered in trash back. And you know another thing, while
Speaker 2: I'm talking about it's one thing to see a skeletonized skull. Okay,
Speaker 2: when I say skeletonized, I mean devoid of any hair,
Speaker 2: soft tissue, skin, eyes, lips, anything. It's just a bone,
Speaker 2: dry skull. I still don't understand because anthropologists can look
Speaker 2: at various body parts. I'm talking about bones and tell.
Speaker 2: And it's a man or woman that said I want
Speaker 2: to have today as a good day, a rejoicing day,
Speaker 2: because somebody's finally behind bars. It poc technical legal time,
Speaker 2: but I mean I can't help. But look, I mean
Speaker 2: you used to tell me this after trials. Well, I
Speaker 2: should have done this, I should have done the ego.
Speaker 2: Shut up, you won, Okay, quit looking at what you
Speaker 2: could have done a little bit better. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But for me, it's all part of the post mortem.
Speaker 2: And I'll not casting blame. I'm all about how can
Speaker 2: we avoid this happening? Next time, I.
Speaker 1: Think what we've got, We've got a day, like you said,
Speaker 1: to celebrate, and I think that's exactly what we should do.
Speaker 2: Cheryl, Cheryl, Shall you know I don't celebrate. I basically
Speaker 2: breathe easier for that day. I exhel because when I
Speaker 2: would leave court with a guilty verdict, I thought, before
Speaker 2: I started trying taxes, it's going to be like on
Speaker 2: TV or movies, Well, party, but it's not like that.
Speaker 2: I've never had a single case or I felt like
Speaker 2: party and I've got David shut up there. I told
Speaker 2: him I was just getting that out of the way.
Speaker 2: Did we ever party? One time? After a trial? Was
Speaker 2: more like, oh great, gone in heaven, that's over, did
Speaker 2: we David?
Speaker 3: No? Just so you know, I don't tell him to
Speaker 3: shut up. If I did tell me shut up, you
Speaker 3: wouldn't shut up anyway. Thankfully for me, the Lord blessed
Speaker 3: me with a husband that does not talk a lot.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine coming home from work and having a
Speaker 3: gabby chatty husband.
Speaker 2: It would be awful.
Speaker 1: Oh that said, we have absolutely carried over before. Now
Speaker 1: come on, you.
Speaker 2: Speak for yourself, woman, like we can afford champagne. I
Speaker 2: would get water every day for a lunch if we
Speaker 2: went anywhere Lombardey So that was a big deal to
Speaker 2: go to Lombardi's and have a Caesar salad at the
Speaker 2: Italian restaurant by the courthouse. I'm like, no, I do
Speaker 2: not want any ice ta that costs a dollar twenty
Speaker 2: five forget it.
Speaker 1: Oh lord, But you know, I tell you what really
Speaker 1: got to me yesterday. As you know, I'm out of
Speaker 1: town and I couldn't go to the press conference. You were,
Speaker 1: of course busy taping crime stories, couldn't be there. But
Speaker 1: the fact that Tina would take the time during the
Speaker 1: press conference to name you and I publicly and thank
Speaker 1: us for what we had done on this case. I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you something that got to me as
Speaker 1: much as anything yesterday.
Speaker 2: I very rarely talk about any court win or nothing
Speaker 2: like that. You know, it's certainly not anything to brack about.
Speaker 2: But yesterday I will tell you. I told John David
Speaker 2: I won't guess what's son, and he knew about the
Speaker 2: case because he sard you and I are talking about it,
Speaker 2: and I can't believe that at his young age he
Speaker 2: got it. He went, Wow, Mom, I said, big deal.
Speaker 2: It's about to make me cry right now, I know,
Speaker 2: because that woman in so much pain, and you and
Speaker 2: I were just especially me, you did so much more
Speaker 2: than me, just two little cogs in a big wheel
Speaker 2: of justice. And when I think about what they've been
Speaker 2: through all these years, all my stars, and they basically
Speaker 2: felt they knew who had murdered Melissa and dismembered her.
Speaker 2: And just and Cheryl, you tell it, you tell how
Speaker 2: her body not only dismembered, but the trash back in
Speaker 2: which her skull had been hidden rips open and it's
Speaker 2: out near a street that just is so.
Speaker 1: It just desecrated her. He was thrown out like trash.
Speaker 1: We believe it was probably a dog or a coyote.
Speaker 1: Something drugged that bag out. It was ripping it apart.
Speaker 1: And there's literally a skull in the middle of the
Speaker 1: road and a ups driver finds it making deliveries, calls
Speaker 1: the police. It's miss identified as the Caucasian mail and Nancy.
Speaker 1: They lose four years, four years, and then when the
Speaker 1: arms and legs they're located, they think they belonged to
Speaker 1: the same man and just keep it on his shelf.
Speaker 1: She stayed in the morgue for four years until finally
Speaker 1: somebody says, wait a minute. She lived right there on Brookline,
Speaker 1: her husband worked right there at action Glass. Her head
Speaker 1: is found not thirty feet from the front door. Hit
Speaker 1: the dental records, and of course it's Melissa, and her
Speaker 1: mom is told on the front porch that that skull
Speaker 1: that you watched the news and you were so grateful.
Speaker 1: She was so grateful when it wasn't Melissa. And then
Speaker 1: she's told it was Melissa and.
Speaker 2: She was beheaded. I've got to tell you something. You
Speaker 2: going to think, Okay, what does that have to do
Speaker 2: with this? Just wait for it. Last night at the
Speaker 2: supper table, I had once again cooked dinner, although it
Speaker 2: was crocked bite. I don't know why that's frowned up mine.
Speaker 2: It's my favorite Swiss chicken. Then I got from a
Speaker 2: court TV the God Rest Her Soul, Donna ka chirt.
Speaker 2: You put boneless thighs on the bottom, covered them with
Speaker 2: Swiss cheese slices, put a concoction of various cream of
Speaker 2: chicken soups and in stovetop dressing and let it cook
Speaker 2: for seven hours. It's Lucy's favorite. We were having that.
Speaker 2: Lucy turned to me and went, Mom, are you really
Speaker 2: still going to drive us to school on Fridays when
Speaker 2: school starts. I'm like, yes, that's my only time to
Speaker 2: really be alone in the car. He she is, Mom,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be a junior. I don't want you
Speaker 2: to drive me to school anymore. John David wisely, and
Speaker 2: you enough not to say anything. And I was looking
Speaker 2: at her because I sit between her and John David,
Speaker 2: I was looking at her. To me, I was looking
Speaker 2: at her. It's like a three or four year old
Speaker 2: little girl going Mommy, yeah, I want you to try
Speaker 2: me to to preschool. That's how I see her, right,
Speaker 2: it's my sweet little baby, not a teen girl. Actually
Speaker 2: that's her own mind. And I just am thinking about
Speaker 2: Melissa and how her mother sings her and being told
Speaker 2: this is my lessa. How she broke down and basically
Speaker 2: fell down on the porch crying when she found out,
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, and you know.
Speaker 1: What, her sister Tina got a phone call, go into
Speaker 1: the store, just having a great afternoon walking. That's how
Speaker 1: she finds out. You know, hucking Caroline. They're twenty one
Speaker 1: and twenty three. They get invested in these cases as well.
Speaker 1: They've been crime seen with me, they've met Melissa's mom
Speaker 1: and sister. So yesterday they felt the same way John
Speaker 1: David did.
Speaker 2: They're proud of this.
Speaker 1: They understand what it takes to get here, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's just wonderful to me to also share that with them.
Speaker 1: They know what we do for a living, they know
Speaker 1: how important what we do is, and they knew they
Speaker 1: had a hand in this as well.
Speaker 2: The mother and the sister yesterday are still I can
Speaker 2: just see them vividly in my mind's eye right now.
Speaker 2: Yesterday I felt like they were in the round with
Speaker 2: me and they were describing, you know how they she
Speaker 2: was there at Thanksgiving and she asked for one Christmas present,
Speaker 2: one thing, a picture of her with her grandfather. That's
Speaker 2: all she wanted. And then she didn't show up one
Speaker 2: month later to get the gift. The mom had gotten it,
Speaker 2: had it framed, all wrap, and she didn't show up.
Speaker 2: They knew right then, right then, I think they knew
Speaker 2: she was dead. I agree that would be impossible to
Speaker 2: accept that. And again they just prayed and surely she's
Speaker 2: going to show up.
Speaker 1: Surely there's going to be a phone call, because there
Speaker 1: were times, you know, she didn't even have a call.
Speaker 1: So they didn't always, you know, get in contact with
Speaker 1: her regularly. But when her sister found out she hadn't
Speaker 1: showed up at work for a month.
Speaker 2: Hey, you know another thing that the sister Tina said,
Speaker 2: I got to say you, I don't think I've ever
Speaker 2: met any people's finer than these to Amna and his sister,
Speaker 2: and they're very plain spoken, very forced to right, kind
Speaker 2: of quiet spoken people. The sister Tina stated, hopefully we
Speaker 2: can finally get justice from Elissa. She did not deserve
Speaker 2: what she got and then she ended it by selling.
Speaker 2: And I hope anybody who is in a domestic violence
Speaker 2: situation please get out, because that's what this was. I
Speaker 2: hate to say domestic violence because that makes it sound
Speaker 2: all warm and fuzzy like the Hallmark movies where you know,
Speaker 2: the Hallmark movies. I did for so long about Haley Dean,
Speaker 2: you do know that was going to be Lucy's name,
Speaker 2: Haley from after Holly's comment once in a lifetime, but
Speaker 2: then at the last moment, I named her after my
Speaker 2: grandmother Lucy. But that said, you know, they always turn
Speaker 2: out great in the end and everybody's happy, and even
Speaker 2: though it's the murderer. Hello, but this is a domestic violence,
Speaker 2: as she said, situation. The person charged with murdering her,
Speaker 2: which the family felt all along was the killer, is
Speaker 2: Christopher Wolfen Barker. And there were times that she would
Speaker 2: the family would see her crying and with the black eye,
Speaker 2: and she had the children with him, so she didn't
Speaker 2: want to break up the family. Oh, Cheryl, I've seen
Speaker 2: it so many times. It just breaks my heart.
Speaker 1: And you know, I thought her taking the time again
Speaker 1: to advocate for other people in this situation. Here she's
Speaker 1: in the middle of hurting, but she's thinking of other
Speaker 1: people and trying to save other lives because her sister
Speaker 1: did not get out safely. And you can't do anything
Speaker 1: but just look at her. And again, for me, anytime
Speaker 1: that you would be able to be a little selfish,
Speaker 1: it would have been yesterday, and she was not that
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: What a journey a rocky road, this family, this mother,
Speaker 2: this sister has traveled not just to rocky road, but
Speaker 2: a rocky road barefoot. And they have walked it and
Speaker 2: walked it and walked it. And I gotta say, Cheryl,
Speaker 2: I respect to you in so many ways, but in
Speaker 2: your way, you helped them carry that burden along around
Speaker 2: Rocky Road, and I'm just really proud that you let
Speaker 2: me be part of it.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you saying that. But I got to
Speaker 1: tell you two things. One, when I told the family
Speaker 1: that I was gonna call you, I didn't think the
Speaker 1: mother was going to survive that.
Speaker 4: Nathan Grace, Nasan Grace. It's gonna get solved now. And
Speaker 4: I'm like this heaper. I mean, Nancy's okay, she's not
Speaker 4: all that. I'm just calling her because you know whatever.
Speaker 1: But you know, you know, when you're in high school
Speaker 1: and you're a freshman and that senior just seems untouchable.
Speaker 1: They're so smart and they're so beautiful, they got everything together.
Speaker 1: That's how I always felt coming to you. I was
Speaker 1: always the freshman. You are always this just golden child.
Speaker 1: And every time I have ever called you on a case,
Speaker 1: you have helped. And people don't know that. People think
Speaker 1: you're on TV. They don't know you. And I still
Speaker 1: go in the field. They don't know you, and I
Speaker 1: still work a crime scene with ground penetrating radar in
Speaker 1: the heat and bugs. They don't know that because you
Speaker 1: don't ever brag. So I'm gonna brag right now on
Speaker 1: you when I called you on this case. You didn't hesitate,
Speaker 1: and you knew we didn't have DNA or witnesses or
Speaker 1: new evidence. You knew the father's background. That didn't stop
Speaker 1: you either. You were like, okay, the sins of the
Speaker 1: father has nothing to do with Melissa, Amen and hallelujah.
Speaker 1: And in our job, we don't get to pick who
Speaker 1: we help anyway. That now, when one call comes in
Speaker 1: and we go to work, well, I always told Jeris,
Speaker 1: who do you expect to be part of a case?
Speaker 2: Nuns and priests and versins, because they're not okay, that's
Speaker 2: not new. I'm putting up as witnesses.
Speaker 1: And you told me a long time ago swam don't
Speaker 1: swim in a sewer.
Speaker 2: And you are absolutely right. I believe I said cesspool.
Speaker 2: But okay, go ahead and take literary license. Okay, So
Speaker 2: just for this one day, just today, and then we'll
Speaker 2: pick it up tomorrow about getting a conviction on this
Speaker 2: guy who has presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a
Speaker 2: reasonable doubt. I always have to say that, of course
Speaker 2: I'm forced to. Just for this one day today, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna be happy that a rest has been made.
Speaker 2: And then tomorrow we'll pick it up and go.
Speaker 1: Amen.
Speaker 2: Amen, Sister. All I have to say is shut up, David,
Speaker 2: just in case you're.
Speaker 1: With Bye buddy, Bye buddy. Congratulations