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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast. Jeffrey Lyons, PhD.

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Speaker 1: Is a graduate of the University of Hawaii and Regent

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Speaker 1: University now. He earned a PhD in communication. He has

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Speaker 1: taught at Hawaii Pacific University, Argusse University, Honolulu, and Honolulu

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Speaker 1: Community College. He's published articles in the Global Media Journal,

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Speaker 1: Journal of Radio and Audio Media, and the Hawaiian Journal

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Speaker 1: of History. Jeffrey, welcome back to the program. How are you, sir?

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, George. It's a pleasure to be

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Speaker 1: talking to you this evening. I assume you're on the

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Speaker 1: island of Oahu. I am on the island of Oahu,

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Speaker 1: where it's been a chilly fifty nine degrees. You know,

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Speaker 1: after spending nine years in the Navy, I went out

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Speaker 1: there once and flew over Pearl Harbor. It was the

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Speaker 1: erious feeling, Jeffrey, because you look at it from a

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Speaker 1: plane and it looks so small when you're looking down

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Speaker 1: on it, and then you realized World War two started

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Speaker 1: here for us. It's it's strange. It's got that different feeling,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it. It did it started here. My next door

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Speaker 1: neighbor was a child, he saw it. My father was

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Speaker 1: a child, he saw it. So it's still very real

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Speaker 1: to people here in Hawaii. All right, tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about yourself other than what I read

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Speaker 1: on the bio. Well, yeah, I grew up in Hawaii,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, I mean it goes back to the

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Speaker 1: University of Hawaiti. When I was studying there, actually wrote

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Speaker 1: a paper I was a little bit critical of evolution

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Speaker 1: and that I read a book for extra credit, and

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Speaker 1: the teacher said, well, I give you credit for reading

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Speaker 1: the books, but I don't agree with any any of

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Speaker 1: your arguments. So that was fine. So but many years

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Speaker 1: later I got my PhD, and I taught for a

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Speaker 1: number of years, and it took a while to even

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Speaker 1: get some tools together, research tools to dig into this

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Speaker 1: theory of evolution, and I suspected there were problems with it,

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Speaker 1: and as I did the research, it took about seven

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Speaker 1: years I found out, yeah, there's a lot of problems

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Speaker 1: with it. Now my undergrad is in broadcast communications University

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Speaker 1: of Detroit. You're you've got a PhD in communications. I

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Speaker 1: assume it's pretty similar. I mean, you went down to

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Speaker 1: a media type background, didn't you. Well, I did go

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Speaker 1: down a media type background, and actually my PhD research

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Speaker 1: was in talk radio. How about that? How about that? Indeed?

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Speaker 1: But I'd studied political talk radio, studied now the number

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Speaker 1: of years ago, back in two thousand and eight, and

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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated with talk radio and a big

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Speaker 1: fan of your program. Did you write a thesis on

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Speaker 1: people like our friend Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and

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Speaker 1: folks like that? No, No, I actually just research conservative

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Speaker 1: talk radio in general. Sean was in that bunch and

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Speaker 1: then what I call liberal talk radio, and then Air America. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Franken was in that bunch. Yeah. I was trying to

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Speaker 1: find out if there is clear differences between the audiences.

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Speaker 1: We're going through some strange times politically these days, aren't

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Speaker 1: we Yeah, we are. But I mean, I mean evolution,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's there too, and it's funny, it's

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Speaker 1: almost political. On the on the university campus, it's huge.

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Speaker 1: You're right, it's huge, it's huge. So, I mean, what

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Speaker 1: I found when I dug into it was that there's

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Speaker 1: two conversations going on. It's kind of like, um, remember

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Speaker 1: and um the Wizard of Oz at the end of

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Speaker 1: the movie where they peel back the curtain and you

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Speaker 1: got the wizard there. He is behind that little little

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Speaker 1: guy that you imagine it was going to be something huge.

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Speaker 1: He's back there, and you don't pay attention to the

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Speaker 1: guy behind the curtain. Well, what I'm finding out is

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Speaker 1: there's really two conversations going on. There's a conversation going

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Speaker 1: on to the public, but behind the curtain, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of scientists that are questioning evolution and they are

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Speaker 1: not agreeing with much of you know, what we think

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Speaker 1: about is evolutionary theory, and that's what my book is about.

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Speaker 1: It's it's all about the scientists themselves that are saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a little shaky here. How did you

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Speaker 1: pick the topic because it's different than your background. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. That's a that's a perfect question.

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Speaker 1: And the reason is because, and what I argue in

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Speaker 1: my book is it evolution has become a meta theory.

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Speaker 1: What I mean by that, it's it's a theory of theories,

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Speaker 1: so it touches everything. It touches biology, natural sciences, but

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Speaker 1: then it bills over into the social sciences, where I

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Speaker 1: am and there's even theories of you know, how language

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Speaker 1: first came to about nobody knows, but evolution is there too.

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Speaker 1: So evolution does touch the feel of communication where I am,

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Speaker 1: so I kind of figure, well, okay, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to step in my territory, then you know, I get

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Speaker 1: to take a shot exactly. Well, let's get into some

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Speaker 1: of the things in the book of course evolution myths.

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Speaker 1: A critical view of neo Darwinism. Let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: Darwin theory first of all, Jeffrey, if you could give

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Speaker 1: us an overview. Yeah, Well, Darwin's original theory was called

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Speaker 1: descent with modification, kind of a not a very interesting phrase,

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Speaker 1: but interesting enough that he never even used the word

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Speaker 1: evolution until the sixth edition of his book on the

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Speaker 1: Origin of Species. So Darwin was trying to say that

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Speaker 1: species are modified over time, and so they descend one

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Speaker 1: from another and then they're modified, and then you have changed.

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Speaker 1: But what happened was a stock called Herbert Spencer, who

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Speaker 1: was a philosopher. He came along and he pushed this

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Speaker 1: word evolution, and it was basically an unscientific term. Today

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Speaker 1: we all use the word evolution, but Darwin, Darwin couldn't

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Speaker 1: stand the term, and he criticizes it heavily in his autobiography. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yet he's the one who they say coined the phrase.

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Speaker 1: That's right. He never coined the phrase. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: my book I dig out, you know the criticisms, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean, here's I'm reading straight from Darwin, and I

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Speaker 1: won't read much because I know it's a conversation. But

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Speaker 1: he says, I dare say no philosophical point of view

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Speaker 1: or such nature that they do not seem to be

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Speaker 1: of any scientific use. He's talking about Spencer's writings on evolution,

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Speaker 1: and he says they don't aid one in predicting what

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Speaker 1: will happen in any particular case. So he criticizes Spencer

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Speaker 1: because Spencer came out with this theory that just sort

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Speaker 1: of assumed that evolution was true. He called it the

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Speaker 1: law of evolution. But he didn't use a scientific methodology.

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Speaker 1: And I mean people that study science are big into

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Speaker 1: experimentation and prediction. Spencer used no experimentation or prediction whatsoever. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: Now here's the theory of part of your book's title,

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Speaker 1: which is evolution Myths, a critical view of Darwinism. Right,

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Speaker 1: they say Darwin is neo Darwinism is a theory of

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Speaker 1: evolution that is a synthesis of Darwin's theory in terms

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Speaker 1: of natural selection and modern population genetics. Now what does

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Speaker 1: that all mean? Well, it is a mouthful, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I looked at a lot of different books. Donald Prothrow

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Speaker 1: has a book and he's an evolutionary biologist, is called

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Speaker 1: Evolution with a fossil saying why it matters. And what

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Speaker 1: pro Throw points out was that evolution was in big

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Speaker 1: trouble in the early nineteen hundreds. It almost got thrown

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Speaker 1: out the window completely. And the problem was they discovered

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Speaker 1: Mendel's research. He's the monk that did all this research

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Speaker 1: with the genetics and he pollinated cross pollinated peas. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you remember that. I do remember that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that was Mendelin was a monk and he was

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Speaker 1: doing his thing, and actually his research almost got lost,

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Speaker 1: but he got published and then they looked at it

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Speaker 1: and it didn't line up with Darwin's theory at all. So,

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Speaker 1: to make a long story short, the way they rescued

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Speaker 1: Darwinism was there were some mathematicians that came up with

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Speaker 1: something called population genetics and they said, wow, yeah, how

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Speaker 1: can we figure this thing out and rescue Darwin. And

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Speaker 1: they did it with math. They came up with models

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Speaker 1: and that rescued it. And so this new version of

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Speaker 1: Darwin's theory became known as neo Darwinism. Jeffrey, are you

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Speaker 1: saying that there's a God factor here? Well, the thing

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Speaker 1: is evolution has become a theory of origin. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's really something that Darwin and never initially intended.

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Speaker 1: But when you get into the research, and for example,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the co discoverer of DNA, Francis Krick,

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Speaker 1: Krick says that there's no way that DNA could ever

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Speaker 1: come about by chance, I mean, and he's an atheist.

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Speaker 1: So Krick is saying, well, um, we got to come

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Speaker 1: up with some other explanation. So, of course, for people

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Speaker 1: that are people of faith, they're going to say, well,

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Speaker 1: it's God. For Krick, who was not a a person

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Speaker 1: of faith, Krick said, well, maybe it's some force outside

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Speaker 1: of nature, and so he pushed panspermia, a topic which

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Speaker 1: I know is discussed on your program quite frequently. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And panspermy, of course, is a theory that life exists

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Speaker 1: and is distributed throughout the universe. In the form of fungi, spores,

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Speaker 1: germs that comes on meteors, asteroids, you name it. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And Crick's got a book out called Life Itself, Its

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Speaker 1: Origin and Nature. Crick passed away, but it's got a

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Speaker 1: picture of Earth on the cover and a little spaceship

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Speaker 1: that's circled around and then hit the Earth. So he

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Speaker 1: pushed the theory that life was put on some kind

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Speaker 1: of spaceship, and well, that's possible on it, you know,

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Speaker 1: we may be seated. There are some that say we

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Speaker 1: are from other races throughout the universe that came here

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Speaker 1: and basically genetically altered whatever species might have been on

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Speaker 1: the planet at the time. That's very possible. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's it's all very interesting because I

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Speaker 1: don't think Darwin ever anticipated originally that his theory would

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Speaker 1: go so wide and become this meta theories, theories of theories,

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Speaker 1: a theory of origins. But it's partly because of Herbert Spencer,

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Speaker 1: because Herbert Spencer just opened up, open up a whole

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Speaker 1: can of opportunity outside of biology. Yeah, I'll always remember

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Speaker 1: the show called Darwin Picture of Fish Sea Life and

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Speaker 1: then they have legs, they're walking on the beach and

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Speaker 1: then they become you know, like like a different kind

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Speaker 1: of an animal with four legs, and they just keep

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Speaker 1: going higher and higher until they become man. And you

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Speaker 1: look at it chronologically and you go, well, that looks interesting,

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Speaker 1: But did it really happen that way? Yeah, and I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad you brought that out. The fish and the

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Speaker 1: sea life and the growing legs. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: peculiar case of a fish called the sea eeli half.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if you've heard of that.

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Speaker 1: I haven't. Um, it spelled really oddly c oe. Um.

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Speaker 1: I gotta look it up again. Even it's it's just

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect it, but that's how you pronounce it

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Speaker 1: selick ants. But um, they they thought it was extinct.

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Speaker 1: And this was in the early nineteen nineteen hundreds and

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Speaker 1: uh they said, this this creature which is in fossils.

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Speaker 1: It's in fossils, they said, this is this fish grew

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Speaker 1: legs and it came on land. Well that worked out

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Speaker 1: pretty well into nineteen thirty eight when they found the

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Speaker 1: fish alive. Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah, those diagrams, um

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Speaker 1: don't always work out. Um, even the even that diagram

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Speaker 1: they call the tree of life. Phylogeny Ernst Mayer, who

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Speaker 1: is another prominent evolutionary biologists. I believe he's since passed away.

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Speaker 1: He wrote a book about evolution what it is, and

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Speaker 1: he says that that tree that you see, the tree

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Speaker 1: of life, you know, the fish at the bottom, and

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Speaker 1: they get more complex. You've probably seen it in biology textbooks.

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Speaker 1: Mayor says it's inferred. In other words, it's not supported

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Speaker 1: by any scientific evidence. They just guess, why is the topic,

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey so hot inheated? That's a perfect question. It is

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Speaker 1: very hot in heated, because what's happening, you know, as

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Speaker 1: we open up in the beginning, is you've got two conversations.

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Speaker 1: You've got one in front of the curtain and one

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Speaker 1: behind the curtain. In front of the curtain is what

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Speaker 1: students here in the classroom and in the the high

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Speaker 1: school classroom, the university classroom. The other is what's going

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Speaker 1: on behind the curtain. I just found and I didn't

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Speaker 1: put this in my book, but on the internet you

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Speaker 1: can find a petition of scientific descent from Darwinism, and

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Speaker 1: it's on if you can find it on the internet,

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Speaker 1: and it says we are skeptical of claims for the

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Speaker 1: ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for

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Speaker 1: the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for

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Speaker 1: Darwinian theory should be encouraged. And over five hundred scientists

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Speaker 1: have signed this thing. It's at the descent from Darwin

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Speaker 1: dot Org. I don't have anything to do with this organization.

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Speaker 1: I just found it. In fact that I we should

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Speaker 1: have found it earlier. I would have put in my book.

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Speaker 1: But so what you've got is, you know, behind the curtain,

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Speaker 1: you've got a lot of scientists that are saying, we

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Speaker 1: don't really think this thing adds up. And in chapter

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Speaker 1: after chapter in my book, I lay out what these

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Speaker 1: people what they're publishing. I've got all kinds of evidence

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Speaker 1: to share it comes from scientists, and that it's really

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Speaker 1: it's really in bad shape. Listen to more Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more