WEBVTT - Babies in Space? That's Heavy. (Part 2) 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.240 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:15.200 Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:17.480 podcast that listen the future and says, how does it 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:20.600 feel to be one of the beautiful people? I'm Jonathan Strickland, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.800 I'm Lauren foc Obon, and I'm Joe McCormick. And if 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.239 you were listening to our last episode, you realize that 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.960 we were talking about space babbies, making babies in space, 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:35.320 Babies in spaceace, Yes, with the fact that, uh, I mean, 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:37.199 if we're going to space, we're gonna have to make 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:42.000 new humans there sometime. Yeah, barring some form of immortality, 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.760 we will definitely in order to continue the human species 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.120 need to make more babies. And as it stands, there 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.159 are some big challenges in the way, some some risks 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.600 out there, and we aren't completely aware of all the 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.720 consequences those risks may have. Right, So we wanted to 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.160 talk about what are some of the challenges we're facing 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.080 in terms of making babies in space and how might 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.240 we overcome them. Last time, we talked about radiation. There's 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.280 lots of radiation in space, both of a different nature 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.080 than the radiation we usually encounter here on Earth, and 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:21.240 lots of people have suggested that this poses a risk 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.800 to pregnancy in space, suggested that probably with good reason, right. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.720 I mean, radiation is one issue, But today we wanted 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.920 to talk about another thing that we really are just 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:38.160 starting to understand when it comes to its effects on organisms. 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:43.800 I'm talking about microgravity. Yeah, so what happens when you 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:49.800 take a pregnant animal and put it in space? Much 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.600 freaks out? Well I imagine, yeah, it does freak out, 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.080 But what happens to its health and the health of 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.960 its children. So we have a little bit of information 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.280 about this, but not not a wealth of information, right 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.360 because we don't have any examples of mammals conceiving or 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.960 giving birth in space. We have some other animals that 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:16.079 have conceived in space. Will have a lovely inspirational story 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.799 about a cockroach later on in this podcast. But jelly fish. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:21.600 Don't forget about the jelly fish. I'd like to call 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:26.239 them jellies rather than jellyfish because a friend of mine 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.280 works at the Georgia Aquarium and would get on my 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.079 case if I said anything else. Gosh, you should see 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.520 what happens when I call starfish. That's and I'm not 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.400 talking about starfish. Starfish, I'm done. When I call jelly starfish, 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.000 he gets really mad. But anyway, Yeah, we don't have 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.280 a lot of information about what micro gravity's effect would 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.880 be for uh, for especially for for humans, I mean 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.320 humans having a baby in space. We don't really know. 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.400 We're starting to study it, and it looks like micro 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:59.320 gravity could have some pretty uh some pretty extensive effects 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:06.240 on some serious and potentially completely unexpected. Yeah. Yeah, so, uh, 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.520 there is evidence that you can subject pregnant animals to 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:16.720 space and they can still give birth and all and do. Yeah, 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.680 it can happen. The question is what are the total 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.880 effects and what causes these effects? And it it can 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.280 be really tricky to to even come to those conclusions, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.120 right because you have to take into consideration a lot 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.960 of variables, some of which may not have anything to 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.200 do with the animal being in microgravity. You know, there 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.280 are a lot of genetic markers that you have to 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.360 take into consideration. This is why it's really complicated whenever 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:44.240 you look at any study that deals with development in 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.880 this case, because there's so many things going on that 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.400 narrowing it down to saying micro gravity causes this can 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.520 be tricky. Although there's certainly some experiments that we'll talk 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:59.880 about that seemed to have some pretty dramatic results. Yeah, Like, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.080 for example, there's one that we that you cited. I 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:08.680 think you found the study, Joe, about a study where 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:14.880 they used they didn't actually send UH cells up into space. UH, 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:20.280 they used a device to simulate micro gravity in UH 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:25.200 doing in vitro fertilization for UM mouse eggs, right, And 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.120 the idea was to find out what would the effects 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.640 of micro gravity be on that and in fact, and 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.760 in this case, we're talking about a three D clino 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.440 stat as the device. Now, what a clono stat does 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.440 is it rotates along at least one axis. Three D 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.880 would rotate on multiple axes, but rotate on at least 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:49.080 one access, so that gravity would equally affect all parts 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.320 of whatever it is you're testing. The idea being that 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.320 it all cancels out in the end. So for example, 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.520 I saw a lot of experiments that they essentially used 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.560 a set in hand on a clock because usually it's 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.679 like one revolution per minute for these experiments, so second 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.640 out and the clock is that's exactly what you want. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:13.000 And they would UM a fix seeds to some sort 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.920 of UM substance that would allow them to grow, you know, 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:21.200 some sort of soil substitute attached to the second hand, 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.640 and the idea being that because it's rotating around and 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.000 all different sides of the seed are being exposed to 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.880 gravity equally, it's the same as micro gravity. So you've 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.599 gotta understand that we're simulating it in this case. It's 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.920 not true micro gravity. It's because it's tricky to actually 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:41.479 get time aboard any kind of scientific study that's going 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.360 up into space that that their time is really precious. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.320 But hey, if you want to subsidize your trip to space, 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.599 you might want to see if there are any scientific 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.560 organizations that will pay you to conduct these experiments while 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:54.719 you're up there. Yeah. Yeah. One of the tricky things 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.640 is that if you are to harvest egg cells, they 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.960 are only viable for a short time after you've harvested them, right, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.160 I mean, you can free sperm cells for a really 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.960 long time, but egg cells for mice, you know, you 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.640 you pretty much need to use them quickly in order 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:13.920 for them to have a chance of producing. So if 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.680 you know, being able to harvest those egg cells and 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.200 then immediately get them aboard of spacecraft, that immediately can launch, which, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:25.279 by the way, then exerts hyper gravity on everything because 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.760 potentially solutions right. Well, but at any rate, you don't 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.480 really know what the effect on the cells was at 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:36.360 that point. You could say, though, was it the hyper 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.080 gravity that caused this effect or the microgravity later on 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.680 that caused this effect. But in other words, it's just 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.039 really hard to get the cells you need up into 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.000 space long enough to look at the effects of micro gravity. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.960 I mean, you could do a parabolic arc flight on 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.800 a plane, but that doesn't really last long enough to 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.760 perform the experiments that you want to do. You're talking 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.520 about like nineties seconds of weightlessness. It's not enough for 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.080 you to be a boll to really have any meaningful data. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.480 So that's why they used the clinistat here on Earth 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.680 to kind of simulate micro gravity. Now, in that case, 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:12.080 when they did this experiment, the scientists discovered that the 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.720 fertilized eggs that developed into embryos and then eventually developed 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.720 into live offspring like the mice that were born, were fine. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.080 They they took the fertilized eggs and they implanted them 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:29.360 into mice that carried the live offspring and then gave birth. However, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.160 it was a much lower rate of live offspring than 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.200 the control group. So, and they discovered that the longer 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.960 the cells remained in microgravity, the less viable they would become. 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.960 So you'd see something like a sevent live birth success 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:53.040 rate compared to the control groups, uh somewhere around like so, uh, 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.640 that suggests that at least for mice, and at least 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.520 in the simulated micro gravity, there could be some issues 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:05.120 with embryos developing. Yeah, yeah, with the ability to get pregnant. 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.000 Yea More recently, just last year, there were a bunch 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:12.840 of articles coming out trying to link this recent paper 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.040 from the University of Montreal research team to the possible 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.360 effects of micro gravity on humans. Now, what this study 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:25.880 was about was plants. Actually, unless you know some some 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.560 certain humans that I know, don't tend to really be 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.320 equivalent to people, right, okay, uh yeah, So it was 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.600 referred to as cell wall assimily and intracellular trafficking, and 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.000 plant cells are directly affected by changes in the magnitude 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.760 of gravitational acceleration. So in a lot of popular reporting, um, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:51.400 basically people cited this study which found that different gravitational 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.240 effects affected the plants, not just on a macro level, 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.640 but on a cellular level. So the ability of the 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:02.240 plants to do this pro just called intracellular transports, sort 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.600 of taking materials through the cells, sort of the traffic 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.040 flow at the cellular level of materials that was disrupted 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.720 by changes in gravity. And obviously in any early organic development, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.640 that would be incredibly important. Yeah, it would, h And 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.400 there is some parallel because some of these same intracellular 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.200 transport processes happen in humans. Sure, I mean, stuff like 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.680 like proteins have to get in between different cells, stuff 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:30.800 like that. And there was evidence in one bit of 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:36.040 research about fruit flies reproducing a microgravity that a protein 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.120 transfer process was being affected. But we'll talk about that 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.120 in just a couple of minutes. You know what, Lauren, No, no, no, 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:42.959 I don't want to wait. I don't want to wait 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.199 to find out what happened to those fruit flies in space. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.080 I want to hear about it right now, right now, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.040 right now. Okay, So there's some form of issue with 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.120 the way that these cells were being able to exchange proteins. 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.079 How is that going to affect the fruit fly? I mean, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.960 what does that actually mean? It means it will die 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:05.600 terribly a fungal infection. WHOA, this got dark fast, Lauren, Yeah, 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.560 it's funny flies, It's okay. Well, fruit flies, as it 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.800 turns out, are really useful for these kind of experiments. Uh. 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.280 And uh in this case, when we're talking about the 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.760 proteins that are being exchanged that helped with being able 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.040 to do things like resist fungal infections. Uh, it's a 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.719 big deal. They did discover that bacterial infection, that that 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.439 immune response was fine. Right. The flies were not more 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.720 susceptible to bacteria, but they were more susceptible to fungus. 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:35.199 They had not developed that that defense against them. Right. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.760 And the important thing to note here is that humans 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:41.280 and other mammals have really similar immune systems to fruit flies. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.840 The one of the Nobel Prizes in two thousand eleven 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.680 was actually one over the discovery of this. Um. This 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.760 particular study and not the one about the immune systems, 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.079 but the one about the fungal infections was done on 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.480 the Space Shuttle discovery and uh yeah, for for some 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.520 reason or another. And one of the projection is that 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.800 it might have been protein transfer problems. Um. Yeah, that 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.440 the the immune systems of flies that developed in space 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.840 were different. Yeah, and also if they were under hyper 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:15.000 gravity instead of micro gravity, but asn't they're raised in 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:20.720 a centrifuge. Essentially, they was discovered that they had umsted boosted, yeah, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:25.480 resistance to fungal infections and still no affected. Uh, there 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.000 was no effect on their bacterial resistance. Might you say 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.960 that they had created a super fly? I I would, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.720 in fact say they created a super fly? Would I know? 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.320 I would? I am just sad that I didn't say 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.920 it first. I have a question, Um, so we've talked 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:47.480 about how microgravity might affect uh the say a developing fetus, 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.560 but what about mothers, like a what a pregnant woman? 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:55.520 Have any particular risks associated with micro gravity? Well? I 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.280 I only know of one. The fact that might inform 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.640 us on this would is that in nineteen eighty three, 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.000 the Soviet space program, UH sent up They were like, well, 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.240 let's see what happens to a pregnant rat in space. 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.640 So they sent the pregnant rat into space for several 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.679 days and they're observations and the insaid that the mother 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.160 seemed to suffer more than the offspring. That basically, the 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.640 mother gained less weight than you would expect from a 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.640 from a pregnant rat and had decreases in muscle mass 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:33.120 and liver mass and um hemoglobin. Yeah, I think the 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.880 muscle mass and I feel like hemoglobin are two common 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.719 things that happened to two astronauts just when they're up 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.560 in space not pregnant at all. Um, you certainly are 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.920 going to lose muscle mass from not uh, not moving, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.520 not not using your skeletal structure the way that you 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.240 would not under the resistance of gravity, and and bone 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.360 mass also decreases. Stuff like that. And whether whether or 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.959 not that would be a significant impact on a pregnant one, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.240 and whether or not that would in turn impact the 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.320 fetus is definitely a thing to think about. Oh sure, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.080 it has a huge concern. And obviously, again a pregnant 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:13.720 woman undergoing the stresses of both hypergravity assuming that she 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.880 the conception happened on Earth, and also then micro gravity. 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:22.200 These are now big things to to consider and really 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.920 hard to test for, you know, just like we were 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:30.760 saying with the radiation episode, developing tests that that would allow, Yeah, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.800 we'd have to be able to simulate in some way 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.120 so that we could gain more information and have the 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:39.440 best practices but you know it raises lots of ethical issues. Well, 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:43.840 let's look at some actual practical examples of animals born 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:49.200 or not born, but born or conceived in space. Yeah, okay, 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:54.319 all right, how about how about cockroaches? You mentioned him earlier. Yeah, fantastic. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:59.280 So this cockroach was named Hope, was named uh not 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:05.679 as to I don't speak Russian, which translates to hope. 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:10.080 And I believe that this cockroaches as far as I know, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.760 it's the first animal to have conceived in space that 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.480 at least has admitted to it. Yeah, they got pregnant 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.280 in space. So there was a twelve day space mission 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:23.640 September of two thousand seven, conducted aboard a Russian satellite 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.440 by the Institute of Biomedical Problems. I love that the 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:34.160 Institute of Biomedical Problems. They don't have solutions. Hope conceived 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.880 a brood of thirty three little cockroach babies, which hatched 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.400 later after they returned to Earth. So how do the 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:45.160 space conceived baby cockroaches hold up? Well? So there was 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.720 first an early report in October of two thousand and 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:52.960 seven in Novosti, uh, the Russian newspaper, and it said 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.400 that they were eating and drinking and seemed healthy. But 0:14:55.480 --> 0:15:00.120 the researchers noticed an accelerated darkening of the carapace UH, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.480 which usually remains translucent longer in juveniles. And then there 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.080 was a subsequent report in January two thousand and eight, 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.480 again from Novosti, which quoted the lead researcher here dmitri 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.760 ac action at the auction, and so here is what 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:20.920 was reported, accelerated body and limb growth. UH. The ones 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.119 conceived in space could crawl faster than the average cockroach, 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.480 and they were quote much more energetic and resilient than 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.240 the others. So this is terrifying, right. So okay, so 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.760 let me get this straight. Micro gravity makes fruit flies 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.600 vulnerable to fungus, but turns cockroaches into super cockroaches, according 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.120 to this report. I don't know the thirty three little 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:47.680 baby cockroaches are the result of this mad science experiment. Doom, 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.320 that's gonna do. The question is does the line in there? Yeah, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.920 what happens with the next generation? Joe? Are you telling 0:15:54.960 --> 0:16:00.000 me that there are super duper cockroaches running around Russia? No? I? Okay, 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.440 So hopes children number one not sterile from the procedure. 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.200 So conceived in space fertile on Earth. So so she 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.600 she's a grandmother, right, So it's a batch of thirty 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.720 plus little critters of Hope's grandchildren. But I haven't read 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.840 any reports of them carrying over the super duper traits 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.600 that were initially reported, And I have to admit, for 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.360 some reason, I just feel a little bit skeptical about 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.000 the super cockroaches. But you know, maybe yeah, Actually the 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.440 reports I read specifically said that the the grand children 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:38.520 of Hope we're indistinguishable from our ordinary, boring earth cockroaches 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.800 that continue to give me the hebes and the g bs. Well, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.720 there's there's, of course a difference between genetic effects that 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.680 happened to a person's somatic cells, their body cells, and 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.680 the genetic effects of something that happens to their reproductive cells. Well, 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.880 maybe we'll see that it's skips a generation and the 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:04.200 great great grandchildren will end up towering over Kiev. Well 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.320 their cockroaches. So I'm sure there's been several generations since then. 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.320 I'm not sure what happened to them. Terrifying Uh, though, 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.640 it's worth stating that this is not the same as 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:19.200 a mammal giving conceiving in space and then having grandchildren 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.520 about not even for lawyers. You know, these are these 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.320 are cockroaches. They're not mammals, and and that really doesn't matter. 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.760 Like cockroaches are known to be fairly resistant to radiation. 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.879 That's something we talked about in the last episode, was 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.960 the risk that radiation poses. And I imagine while micro 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.000 gravity obviously is a big factor here, radiation was probably 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.440 the main risk for the cockroaches giving birth to sterile children. 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:48.159 But but so we know that the roaches got past it, alright. So, 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.199 uh so we've talked about the cockroaches. Do we have 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.040 any other examples of critters what we're either born or 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.960 conceived in space? Well, we mentioned not jelly fish, but jellies, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:04.639 jellies jon jellies Aurelia arita, so not conceived but born 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.080 in space. Maybe not born born ishes as much as 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.800 jellies are born at all. They're they're they're kind of 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.440 polyps and then they sort of yeah, they basically the 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:18.480 polyps separates into what's called f array, which are like larvae. 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.480 Uh and and these were timed before and after launch. 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.440 So there's a study published in chronicling what happened here. Uh, 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.600 jellies spent nine days aboard the Space Shuttle during their 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.639 fray and polyp stages, and then they returned to Earth. 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:40.000 Now what's interesting here is that jellyfish have gravisceptors, these 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.040 organs that receive fields of gravity so that they can 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.080 tell which way is up underwater, right, And they're these 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:51.480 little hairy pockets containing calcium sulfate crystals, and that helps 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.199 them orient their bodies with respect to Earth's gravity. That 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.680 that would become. Anyone who's ever been underwater and then 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:03.119 gotten disoriented knows how how crazy, confusing and scary that is. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.600 In humans. It's an inner ear fluid issue, I think. Yeah, yeah, 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.280 So you know, having this kind of oregon is very 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.360 important for animals that need to be able to maintain 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.080 their orientation at any given time under the water or anywhere. Right. 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.520 For jellies, under the water is pretty much where you 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.359 want to be. Yeah, that are in space or in 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.440 Jonathan's bed. Oh please, no, no more jellies in bed. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.359 My wife has already yelled at me for peanut butter 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.720 in bed. I don't. I don't need jellies in there too. Okay. 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.000 So the study found that the jellies that developed in 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:42.000 space were quote morphologically very similar to the ones from Earth. 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:43.960 So basically you look at them, you don't see a 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.840 big difference. Um, they seem pretty healthy. But what were 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.640 observed were quote pulsing abnormalities. So the ones that were 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.480 born in space, and that just means you see like 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.320 a jellyfish pulse through the watch, like the contraction movement 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.160 that propels it. So they moved, meant their their mechanism 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.720 for movement had changed. Yeah, the pulsing abnormalities were found 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.200 in about eighteen point three per cent of the space 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.440 developed larvae, whereas the one the controls back on Earth 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:17.600 it was just two. So it was definitely observed that 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.560 the ones that were sort of born ish if you 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:24.439 call that born and whatever in space had troubles with 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:29.800 orientation and with their their gravity organs. Interesting. So yeah, 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.359 I mean that now obviously that would be different for 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.400 humans than jellies. I mean, oh yes, But but the 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.200 the implication is that when you have such a different 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.800 environment than the one that we've evolved to uh interact 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.560 with on on, you know, in irregular lives, uh, the 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.200 the outcomes can be unpredictable. Right, we don't necessarily know 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.800 what's going to happen. I mean, you know, if if 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:57.440 we are evolved so that we can deal with a 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.800 certain amount of radiation and a certain amount of gravity, 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.199 then when you take us out of that that scenario 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:07.200 and then uh, you know, try to reproduce, there could 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:09.959 be some some big issues. And that's really what this 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.360 is all about is, you know, how do we how 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.240 do we find out what those are, how do we 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.320 address them, how do we prevent them? In fact, that's 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.680 what we should really talk about. How do we prevent 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:26.640 any problems from micro gravity possibly interfering with our reproductive cycle? Well, 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.520 we could just go to a planet with accelerated gravity, 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.520 give birth to all children there, and then they'd all 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.720 be superhumans, right so right, yeah, so crypton type thing 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:38.520 right right with a different color sun so that we 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.040 all get we have to be able to absorb that 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.359 energy and then science we can fly through some mechanism 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.240 that has never been adequately explained. I like this idea. 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.199 Let's not even discuss anything. Okay, Well, we gotta we 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.359 kind of have to just we have to be we 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.560 have to be thorough well. I mean, of course, the 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.679 other one would be a big one for humans in 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:02.320 space in general, which is artificial gravity. Yeah, they have 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:05.320 that on all of those fancy Star Trek programs. Basically 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.120 everything else that happens in space and sci fi. Ever, 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:10.359 you just gotta make sure you flip the switch, and 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.520 as long as the switches on, you're good to go. 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:15.800 How would you actually create artificial gravity? Well, we won't 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.080 go into too much detail because we'll probably do a 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.080 whole episode about this in the future. Yeah, there's there's 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:23.679 ways that you can simulate gravity, although there are questions 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.919 about how effective that would be. So essentially creating the 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:33.000 whole centripical force and centrifical effect by rotating whatever spacecraft 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.960 you're on along an access so that you can, you know, uh, 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:41.720 create an artificial kind of gravity that way, but there's 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:43.840 some debate about how effective that would be. Then there's 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.200 always the well, all we have to do is figure 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.920 out what the heck gravitons are and then harness them 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.240 to our will, and we're fine, Oh yeah, that sounds easy. Perfect. 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.920 Let's just first let's prove this hypothetical thing exists, and 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.879 then second we have to find a way of manipulating it, 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.120 and then it's all ray. But yeah, I mean, these 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:04.960 are these are real problems. I love the idea that 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.320 in the future we have like a planet set aside 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.080 that's kind of like those those motels where you rent 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:14.960 by the hour. That's just where you go when it's time. Yeah, 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:18.720 for babies. That's that's the space baby motel. Is that 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:20.800 one planet that's gonna that plant is going to have 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.560 a great reputation. Well, the joke you made actually does 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.840 raise good questions because a lot of what's still to 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.600 be determined is but these two major risk factors, radiation 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:35.720 and microgravity, we don't know exactly the duration and the 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:40.360 stage of development where these are most important. So like 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:43.960 it may be that there are only certain times when 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.760 it's really important to avoid these things, and that other times, 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:50.200 you know that a fetus might be just as resilient. 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:54.359 You don't know yet, like with with the kind of 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:57.680 radiation that we are exposed to on Earth, knowing that 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:00.119 the first trimester is really where it gets in to 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:02.879 kind of scary danger territory, but during the second and 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.080 third you're more or less okay. Yeah, who knows. What 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:07.760 if we were to find out that you can be 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:10.719 pregnant in micro gravity as long as you give birth 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.560 in a gravity environment. I'm not saying that's true. That's 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:17.640 just one example of weird things we could find out. Yeah, yeah, 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.280