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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress friends. Today we are joined

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Speaker 1: by a cultural icon, an actress who's used her fame

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Speaker 1: for good, for such gorgeous creativity, and who both behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes and out in the world, has been such

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Speaker 1: a leader for women. Our guest today is Academy Award

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Speaker 1: winner Mira Sorvino. She began as a Harvard scholar and

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Speaker 1: went on to captivate audiences, winning her Academy Award for

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Speaker 1: Mighty Aphrodite, and then becoming everybody's on screen bestie in

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Speaker 1: Rome and Michelle's High School Reunion. Behind that fame, mirror

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Speaker 1: was shaped by a household that was steeped in craft

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Speaker 1: and conscious Her father, Paul Sorvino Tartar the discipline of acting.

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Speaker 1: Her mother was an incredible activist, and she was taught early,

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Speaker 1: and she learned early to speak her truth. Those are

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Speaker 1: lessons that she's carried into every role and every cause

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Speaker 1: she has ever embraced, and that hasn't always been easy.

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Speaker 1: Speaking out against harassment and Hollywood cost her opportunities when

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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein retaliated against her, but she channeled that personal

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Speaker 1: experience into incredible advocacy, becoming a United Nations Goodwill ambassador,

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Speaker 1: of fighting human trafficking, and bringing urgent stories of both

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Speaker 1: survival and resilience into the public eye. Her career is

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Speaker 1: a reflection of artistic excellence and unwavering commitment to justice,

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Speaker 1: and her latest film manages to echo all of those

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Speaker 1: lessons in her life. It is poignant, it is hilarious.

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Speaker 1: It is everything that I think we as an audience

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Speaker 1: want right now. The film is called Signing Tony Raymond,

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Speaker 1: and it is an American sports dramedy about a college

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Speaker 1: football coach who's traveling to rural Alabama to recruit the

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Speaker 1: nation's top high school defensive end, only to have to

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Speaker 1: navigate rival recruiters, eccentric locals, and a dysfunctional family headed

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Speaker 1: by Tony's mother, who, of course, is played by Mira.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive in and hear all about her iconic life

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Speaker 1: and legacy. Well, Mira, I'm just so excited to have

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Speaker 1: you on the podcast today. I'm going to be the

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Speaker 1: professional person who interviews you, but for the next thirty

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Speaker 1: seconds I'm gonna not and just tell you that your

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Speaker 1: incredible filmography, the work you have done on screen has

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Speaker 1: been such a beacon for me as an actor, and

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Speaker 1: what you do off screen is just so incredibly inspiring

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Speaker 1: to me. And when I get like down about activism

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Speaker 1: or being outspoken, I immediately think of a handful of women.

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Speaker 1: I think about you. I think about Jane Fonda, I

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Speaker 1: think about Viola Davis, and I'm like, it's gonna be okay,

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Speaker 1: keep going. So I just want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: all of the ways you inspire me and so many people.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. And well, you're

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Speaker 2: a brilliant actress and activist yourself, so coming right back

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Speaker 2: at you.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's really really kind. Thank you. I I think

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Speaker 1: I feel particularly geeked to ask you this question because

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Speaker 1: I love to learn about people before the world knew you,

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Speaker 1: before we could you know, look up. As I said,

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Speaker 1: you're incredibly impressive filmography on IMDb and you're before sort

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Speaker 1: of tickles me because I am a New Jersey resident.

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Speaker 1: My mother grew up in New Jersey, and when I

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Speaker 1: was reminded that you grew up in Tenafly, I was like, oh, oh,

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Speaker 1: we have so much to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Wait did you grow up in Tenafy?

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Speaker 1: I didn't, but my mom grew up in teen X.

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Speaker 1: I spoke so much of my childhood, you know, going

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Speaker 1: there to be with my grandfather. And I'm just so

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Speaker 1: curious if you could teleport back there today and interact

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Speaker 1: with yourself at eight or nine or ten years old.

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Speaker 1: Do you think there are characteristics in her, even at

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Speaker 1: that age that you would recognize in yourself today.

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Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. I think I've done a lot of

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Speaker 2: work as an adult recently at sort of getting back

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Speaker 2: in touch with little Mira, you know, and trying to

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Speaker 2: protect little Mirra and validate little Mirra and just celebrate

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Speaker 2: little Mirra for the core elements of who I am.

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Speaker 2: You know, Little Mira was always like excited about everything,

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Speaker 2: very introspective, huge reader, Like I would go to my room,

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Speaker 2: Like if I was punished to go to my room,

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Speaker 2: they'd have to call me to come back out, because

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Speaker 2: you know, just I just was stuck in a book

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Speaker 2: and lost in it. And so yeah, so there's that.

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Speaker 2: And then I was very inspired by social justice movements.

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Speaker 2: My mom marched on Washington with doctor Martin Luther, Reverend

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Speaker 2: doctor Martin Luther King Junior, and that that always made

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Speaker 2: such a big impression on me. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: love I love the world of imagination and fantasy, and

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Speaker 2: I loved acting, Like I started acting in school plays

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Speaker 2: at eight and my dad started teaching me then. And

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Speaker 2: you know that that bug that bit me then, as

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Speaker 2: you know, carried me all the way through to now.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's so interesting because I think being an

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Speaker 1: actor and standing up for social justice really go hand

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Speaker 1: in hand. You know, we learned this craft of how

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Speaker 1: to tell other people's stories, care about them and when

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Speaker 1: you tell that story about your mom where you talk

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Speaker 1: about your dad who you know, Paul Sorvino is an

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Speaker 1: incredible actor in his own right for our friends at home,

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Speaker 1: did those lessons always come hand in hand, the acting

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Speaker 1: and how people's stories fit into the landscape of the world,

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Speaker 1: or do you think you grew up in a household

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Speaker 1: where one was about craft and one was about culture

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Speaker 1: and they were just both so infused in your life.

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Speaker 2: Well, my parents were great entertainers, and so we would

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Speaker 2: have these dinner parties where you'd have these long tables

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Speaker 2: full of luminaries like who was a bull Surprise winning playwright.

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Speaker 2: My dad was best friends with Jason Miller, who wrote

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Speaker 2: that championship season for which my Dad was nominated for

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Speaker 2: a Tony on Broadway and then ended up doing the

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Speaker 2: movie and then ended up directing a version of the

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Speaker 2: movie later for Showtime Wow. And Jason Miller was also

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Speaker 2: the actor who played Father Karras and the Exers Exorcist,

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Speaker 2: you know, So he was a great actor. He was

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Speaker 2: a greater writer, a great thinker. Then we used to

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Speaker 2: have opera singers there because Dad was a big time

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Speaker 2: opera singer, and other actors, and and my mom's friends

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Speaker 2: who were very dear, wonderful people, just salt of the

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Speaker 2: earth people, and my grandparents were always there. So there

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Speaker 2: was always this foment where you know, this ferment or whatever,

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Speaker 2: where we would just be bouncing, and they encouraged us

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Speaker 2: kids to really listen and talk with them, not not

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Speaker 2: just go off to the children's table or into the

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Speaker 2: other room. Like I was always treated with a great

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Speaker 2: deal of maturity, Like I was grateful for that, Like

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Speaker 2: I was invited into the discussions and brought to the

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Speaker 2: cultural events and everything. So I think, I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: there was a real awareness of the wider world and

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Speaker 2: how you fit into it as an artist with opinions.

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Speaker 1: This sort of merger of reality and storytelling. I find

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Speaker 1: so beautiful because in my own way, looking back, I

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Speaker 1: realized I had that in a fashion. You know, my

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Speaker 1: dad was a photographer for his whole career. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have actors in my family, but I had people making

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Speaker 1: art and you know, gathering friends. And I think, because

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Speaker 1: I was an only child, very similarly to what you

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Speaker 1: were saying, I was always treated with maturity because my

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Speaker 1: parents were social and so I was social. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's such a gift to give a kid that

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Speaker 1: kind of both respect and to enable their curiosity really early.

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Speaker 1: And when I look at your life and I think

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Speaker 1: about you know, you're being raised in this artistic space.

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Speaker 1: Your parents are activists, you go to set with your dad,

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Speaker 1: you know you want to be an actor. And also

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Speaker 1: you went to Harvard and got a degree in East

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Speaker 1: Asian studies. And I'm going, you aren't exactly my kind

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Speaker 1: of person. I love the way your brain works. How

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Speaker 1: did you pick it? What was the reason? Were you

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Speaker 1: thinking you wanted to try something different or did you

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Speaker 1: just want to immerse yourself in a completely new space.

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Speaker 2: You mean Chinese studies? Yeah, yeah, so I was Actually

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Speaker 2: I loved Chinese culture from the time I was twelve

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Speaker 2: because I had a best friend, Angela Wong, who's now

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Speaker 2: a doctor, lives in Utah, but her family would take

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Speaker 2: me with them to China talent to speaking opera. I'd

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Speaker 2: watch her grandmother play Majong and I read The Good Earth,

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Speaker 2: and I just kind of fell in love with traditional

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Speaker 2: Chinese culture. And then when I got to college freshman year,

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Speaker 2: I did not know what I wanted to do. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to do everything, like I didn't want to narrow myself.

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Speaker 2: And they had one major called History in Lit, where

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Speaker 2: you could do both history and literature, but you had

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Speaker 2: to already speak the language of the country. So for me,

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Speaker 2: it was either Anglophone or Francophone countries, and they were

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Speaker 2: very rigid. So like if you took a course about

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Speaker 2: philosophy of France, right the French philosophers, it would not count.

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Speaker 2: Like even if you were studying French history in lit

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Speaker 2: for some reason, you know, or the art, it would

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Speaker 2: not count. And then it was very rigid at the time.

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Speaker 2: I really don't know how it is now. And Harvard

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Speaker 2: also has this great core curriculum or did, where you

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Speaker 2: got to take this super wide variety of subjects. So

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Speaker 2: for that, I'm very grateful, and you studied with these

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Speaker 2: amazing professors like Stephen J. Gould or you know, on

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Speaker 2: evolutionary biology, and but I just wanted to study everything,

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Speaker 2: and I probably just should have devised my own major

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Speaker 2: or made an independent major, which I could have, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't. And then I took this course called Art,

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Speaker 2: Politics and Mythology in Bronze Age China, I think, or archaeology,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It was taught by the famous Chinese archaeologists.

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Speaker 2: I'll just casey Jong. And it was so fascinating. And

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Speaker 2: then my section leader was like, oh, Mira, we have

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Speaker 2: this major, maybe you would be interested in it. It's

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Speaker 2: called East Asian Languages and Civilizations and anything you studied

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Speaker 2: as long as it pertained to East Asia count So

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Speaker 2: you could take poetry, you could take shinto architecture, you

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Speaker 2: could take the politics of Vietnam War, you could take

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Speaker 2: anything as long as it pertained to East Asia. They

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Speaker 2: did have a canonical choice, of course, you had to

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Speaker 2: choose like a home country in mind was China, and

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Speaker 2: so that took you through like you know, you read

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Speaker 2: the Buddhist sutras, you study Daoism and Confucius and the

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Speaker 2: you know, the dynastic histories and everything in twentieth century history.

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Speaker 2: But then anything you took would relate, and so I

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Speaker 2: chose that. And it was a hard road to hoe

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Speaker 2: because the Chinese language is so difficult and learning it

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Speaker 2: away from a Chinese speaking place is very hard. But

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Speaker 2: in between my junior and senior year, actually my parents

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Speaker 2: got divorced. They broke up at Christmas when I was

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Speaker 2: twenty Christmas Day, Christmas Night. You know. It was one

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Speaker 2: of those like sikes for ruined.

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Speaker 1: Right, You're like, that's the plot of a Netflix movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just chase after the car in the snow,

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Speaker 2: don't leave you. Yeah. And I had a really hard

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Speaker 2: time focusing that spring semester of junior year because I

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Speaker 2: just was so depressed and it was just like my

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Speaker 2: whole world had like fallen apart. And so I went

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Speaker 2: to China for the summer to study third year Chinese

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Speaker 2: at Beijing University, and then I just decided to stay

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Speaker 2: and because I felt like I was just scratching the

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Speaker 2: surface of Chinese culture, just starting to make some friends,

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Speaker 2: and my language had just gotten to the point where

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Speaker 2: people didn't seem to be talking so quickly right, because

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Speaker 2: that's the thing, like if you're learning a language and

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Speaker 2: then you watch like a news show, people seemed to

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Speaker 2: be speaking impossibly fast, and if only they would speak slower,

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Speaker 2: you would understand it. And it was like a train

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Speaker 2: that all of a sudden slowed down enough for me

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Speaker 2: to jump on and have conversations and have comprehension. So

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Speaker 2: I took a semester off of school and I rented

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Speaker 2: a room from a Chinese woman, and I got like

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Speaker 2: three jobs. I was editing English language translations of Chinese

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Speaker 2: magazines and books and I would fix their English. And

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Speaker 2: then I was singing jazz with two Chinese European jazz bands,

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Speaker 2: and I had the fake books that my dad would

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Speaker 2: send me in care packages, and they were all excited

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Speaker 2: because they didn't have any of the music. So I

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Speaker 2: was like a very popular person in Beijing because I

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Speaker 2: had all this Western music. And this was still like

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Speaker 2: everybody was still in mouse suits. Everybody was still I'm old,

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Speaker 2: so it was like people riding bicycles everywhere. It was

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Speaker 2: nothing like the China today, which has completely capitalized, right,

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Speaker 2: It was still super communist, so the iron rice bowl

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Speaker 2: in full effect, Like people had no hot water. People

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Speaker 2: had no phones in their apartments. It was all walk ups.

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Speaker 2: Like I had to go. I had to walk up

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Speaker 2: six flights of stairs to get to my friend's apartment,

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Speaker 2: and then I would have to use hot boiled water

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Speaker 2: for my showers. And then if I had to call

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Speaker 2: my family, I had to go down the six flights

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Speaker 2: and go to this little hut where this SCHIFFU, this

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Speaker 2: little man sat and I would give him money and

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Speaker 2: then I'd call the US. You know, but it was

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Speaker 2: like so it was. And I had a bicycle and

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Speaker 2: i'd buy my bicycle was stolen. I had to get

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Speaker 2: another school. But you know, it was a different life,

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Speaker 2: but it was also very beautiful life because you forged

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Speaker 2: these friendships with people that were really true. But then

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Speaker 2: Tenement Square happened, and then it became unsafe to go

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Speaker 2: back and distasteful to go back, and you didn't want

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Speaker 2: to endanger your friends, and so everybody in the China

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Speaker 2: field kind of backed off. And that turned me back

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Speaker 2: towards New York and acting more full force. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I was in a lot of plays at Harvard, and

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Speaker 2: I directed things, but I don't know that I would

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Speaker 2: have ended up being a full time actress. Had I

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Speaker 2: gone back to China after graduation if things had been different? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So life is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and now for our sponsors, so life takes that

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Speaker 1: left turn. You can't go back. You do lean in

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Speaker 1: full to acting and then this career explodes. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what is it that really sticks out for you? Is it?

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Speaker 1: Because the obvious question for me is, you know, a

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Speaker 1: fan and a follower of your work is mighty aphrodite.

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Speaker 1: But does that? Is there something before?

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Speaker 2: That was my tenth film? Yeah, so I and my

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Speaker 2: first film was a film that I was actually on

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Speaker 2: the crew of before I got cast on it because

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Speaker 2: I was working at Tribeca Productions as a reader for

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Speaker 2: Jane Rosenthal and Robert DeNiro. I read script submissions and

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Speaker 2: this script came in and I thought it was very good,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't think it was right for their company.

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Speaker 2: It was sort of like a baby goodfellas. It's about

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Speaker 2: these three sort of want to be gangster boys in

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Speaker 2: the Five Towns area of Long Island and written and

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Speaker 2: directed by Rob Weiss. And so I said, Rob, I

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Speaker 2: really like it, but I don't think this is going

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Speaker 2: to be something they're going to go for. But you know,

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Speaker 2: if you want my help on it. So I was like, yes,

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Speaker 2: So I became like an associate producer on it or so.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what my ultimate title was. It was

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Speaker 2: a very minimal title for the amount of work that

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Speaker 2: I ended up doing. But then they asked me if

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Speaker 2: i'd be like the assistant casting director also so and

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Speaker 2: then I became the reader for all the guys on

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Speaker 2: the ship on the movie. And I asked Rob. I

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Speaker 2: was like, Rob, can I audition for Laura, the female lead,

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Speaker 2: And He's like, nah, nah, I wanted to be cute,

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Speaker 2: you know, bubbly like a cheerleader. You're You're too deep.

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Speaker 2: And this is when I had my dark hair. So

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Speaker 2: when I have my dark hair, I think I seem

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Speaker 2: more like, you know, introspective and yeah, yeah, more like

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Speaker 2: my nerdy, like school self rather than fun loving, crazy characters.

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Speaker 2: And so I said, okay, So I started being the

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Speaker 2: reader for all the male auditions, and ultimately he was

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Speaker 2: like and then and then it was taking up so

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Speaker 2: much of my time, and I had my own pursuits,

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Speaker 2: and I had done a few short films already, but

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Speaker 2: you know, and I've done some plays, but I was like,

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Speaker 2: I have to focus on my acting. Rob, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: this is taking too much of my time, and he's like, okay, listen,

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Speaker 2: I'll give you the role of Laura, but because I'm

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Speaker 2: liking what you're doing, but only if you stay on

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Speaker 2: as third a d cast all the extras and drive

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Speaker 2: the van. And I was like okay. So that ended

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Speaker 2: up happening. So I had to like fill like a restaurant,

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Speaker 2: a diner with one hundred extras on Halloween night with

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Speaker 2: no money. We gave them nothing and no food and

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Speaker 2: you know, like just stuff like that. It was just

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Speaker 2: and then three weeks into making the movie, the movie

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Speaker 2: fell apart and we had to stop shooting, and then

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Speaker 2: we had to go around and sing for ours upper

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Speaker 2: and like show people footage and try and get it

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Speaker 2: back on board, and they finally did, and then we

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Speaker 2: finished it and then it went to the Sundance Film

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Speaker 2: Festival and that started all of our careers.

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Speaker 1: And that really changed your life in that moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And then I you know, I did,

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Speaker 2: like I was still moonlighting on and off. I was

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Speaker 2: still bartending, waitressing, teaching Chinese to Ben Taylor, James and

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Speaker 2: Carly's son, James Taylor. Yeah, because he was sixteen and

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Speaker 2: he won to go back to China and Tibet to

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Speaker 2: study Wing Chung and I think it was Win Chung

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Speaker 2: is one of the you know, one of the Chikong studies.

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Speaker 2: He was a master you know, martial artist, and he

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Speaker 2: wanted to le Mandarin. So I was teaching him. So

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Speaker 2: that was one of my crazy, like you know, after

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Speaker 2: college jobs. But I was studying with wynd Handman and

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Speaker 2: I just adored him. He was the greatest teacher in

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Speaker 2: New York and we had such a wonderful community in

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Speaker 2: that class. Yeah, and it just I kept getting jobs

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Speaker 2: from class, Like people would tell me about something, or

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Speaker 2: I would go and workshop my audition material in class.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's so smart, my Afterno, he was my tenth film,

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Speaker 2: I believe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's always that thing they say out in

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Speaker 1: the world it takes ten years to become an overnight success, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's like people think about you and they go, God,

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Speaker 1: and she just exploded with this movie and then this

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Speaker 1: Oscar nom and then this Oscar win. But yeah, your

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Speaker 1: tenth movie. It's like, you know, but the world saw this.

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Speaker 1: What I mean, I can't imagine what the moment felt like.

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Speaker 1: But I think getting ready for today, you know, going

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Speaker 1: back and seeing some of you know, the footage and

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Speaker 1: the photos and seeing your dad and the audience watching

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Speaker 1: that moment for you, was that just the coolest I mean,

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Speaker 1: what a cool thing to win an oscar in the

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Speaker 1: first place, but your dad sitting there, I just can't imagine.

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Speaker 1: It's this massive career moment and this incredibly intimate moment

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Speaker 1: for you as a human in your family as well.

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Speaker 2: Sure, it went all the way back to you know,

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Speaker 2: when I was eight years old and he was teaching

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Speaker 2: me to cry, and I had to go to the

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Speaker 2: middle of the stairways halfway up, halfway down and sit

348
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Speaker 2: there until I was sobbing over whatever fantasy or memory

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Speaker 2: I'd put in my head. And then he's like, now

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Speaker 2: do the scene. Wow. So and then he would teach

351
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Speaker 2: me to you know, like emotional preparation, substance tuition, you know,

352
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 2: never he had these. So he would come to my

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Speaker 2: plays as a high schooler and he would be like afterwards,

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00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 2: every other parent was like, honey, that's amazing, and he

355
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: would be like, very good, Mira, I just have two notes.

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Speaker 2: And then he would set me down for like two

357
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Speaker 2: hours and break down the entire performance by beat, moment

358
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Speaker 2: by moment, scene by scene, And on the one hand,

359
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,719
Speaker 2: it was a little bit like I wish he had

360
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Speaker 2: just loved it unconditionally, but at the same time, like

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00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 2: those were invaluable lessons. Like one of the things I

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Speaker 2: remember him saying is like, you're killing your first impulse

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00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,919
Speaker 2: when you sigh and then speak. When you go and

364
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 2: then you speak, you're making an intellectual choice. You're not

365
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: going with your instinct. Just speak. Let your unconscious you know,

366
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Speaker 2: do the line. Don't don't think, don't change it. Don't

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Speaker 2: make an intellectual choice a thinking actor as a stinking actor.

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Speaker 2: You know from Stanford Meisner, right, because he was one

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Speaker 2: of Meisner's students and Bill Esper and my mom was

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00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 2: also a product of their teaching, and my parents met

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00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 2: in Bill Essper's class. They study partners. But you know,

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00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 2: and he would be like, stick with the other fellow,

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Speaker 2: and you'll never be wrong. You might be boring, but

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Speaker 2: you'll never be an authentic you know. So like that's

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Speaker 2: that's the funny thing when you work with actors who

376
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 2: seem to want to like top you or change their

377
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 2: performance from your side to their side. It's so ridiculous

378
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: because then they're kind of killing the strength of the scene,

379
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 2: because the scene is the sum total of the two

380
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: people's alchemy in each moment, you know, and you just

381
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 2: have to vibe off of, you know, give back what

382
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 2: you're getting, whether it's low or high. And so all

383
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: of those things were so valuable. And I had watched

384
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Speaker 2: him work my whole life, and Dad was never nominated,

385
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 2: and for Goodfellows, he was not nominated, which was sort

386
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 2: of crazy, and there was a decision at some point.

387
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: There was a there's a famous picture of the four

388
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: of them from Goodfellas with him, Joe Pesci, de Niro,

389
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Speaker 2: and ray Leoda, and then there's a version of that

390
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Speaker 2: picture where Dad's not in it, and it's like they

391
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 2: cut him out of the picture and they kind of

392
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: went for the three shot even though there's a bunch

393
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: of those four shots out there. And so many people

394
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 2: got you know, recognized for that film, and it's arguably

395
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 2: maybe the you know, him and Brando, I mean, are

396
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 2: the best godfathers ever, right, you know, Allie and Goodfellows

397
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: is iconic, right, and he was. It was so different

398
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 2: from his real personality because Dad is not was not

399
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 2: that heavy and not that sort of kind of lead

400
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 2: in the stare that he had that he had to

401
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: work on. And he said one day when he looked

402
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 2: in the mirror, he got frightened and he almost decided

403
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: he didn't want to do the movie because it was,

404
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: you know, bringing up all this darkness, right wow. And

405
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 2: so I think I just wanted to share it with him,

406
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 2: you know, I just wanted to say, well, if you

407
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: hadn't been who you were with me, I never would

408
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 2: be standing here. So I want to say that you know,

409
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 2: me getting this is you getting this. And that's when

410
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 2: he burst into tears. I said, when you honor my father,

411
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: when you give me this a word, you honor my

412
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 2: Father's taught me everything I know about acting. And that's

413
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 2: when he exploded into tears. And he told me he

414
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: wasn't going to cry because he had cried at the

415
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: Golden Globes and he realized he was like, I don't

416
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: want to pull focus from your mirror, so I am

417
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: not going to cry. And that happened. That's so sweet. Yeah,

418
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: And the people tell you know, told us for years

419
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 2: that that was their favorite Oscar moment because it reminded

420
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: them of the love that they shared with their parent,

421
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: you know, so it was a personal moment that wasn't

422
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: necessarily about art at all, was just all love. Yeah.

423
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Speaker 1: I love that though, because any artist, I mean, you

424
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: love your work, but every human is so much more

425
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: than what they do. You know, whatever your career might be,

426
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: you have this whole life and identity, and I think,

427
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: I think when you're able to merge the two, it's

428
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: got to be powerful as a person, but I think

429
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: it's really powerful for everybody who watches also, mm hmm, yeah,

430
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: we'll be back in just a minute after a few

431
00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: words from our favorite sponsors. It's interesting because that's such

432
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: a joyous moment and experience, you know, And then I

433
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: think to sort of the other side of it, not

434
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: that it's not wonderful, but powerful, scary, intense or the

435
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: words that come to mind when I think about the

436
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: merger of self and an artistic platform in advocacy, and

437
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, I think back when the Me Too letter

438
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: was getting put together in twenty seventeen, and it was

439
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, who's going to sign this thing that's going

440
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: to go in the New York Times, and people on

441
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 1: calls that I was on about that talking about you

442
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: and your work and the experience that standing up for

443
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: yourself and other women had put you through behind the

444
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: scenes that finally came to light, you know, to have

445
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: this sensational career, and also to know that someone whom

446
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 1: you simply asked to respect you as a person and

447
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: your boundaries tried to get in the way of your

448
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: career discouraged you from being cast in things. I mean,

449
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: what a I don't want to put words in your mouth,

450
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: but from the outside it feels almost like a whiplash.

451
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: You know. I am amazed at the grace with which

452
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: you have carried yourself through all of that. What did

453
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: it mean to you to know that you weren't crazy

454
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: when all of that that came to light and people

455
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: did say, oh yeah, I was told not to cast

456
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: you in this film, or I was told not to

457
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: look at you for this job. It doesn't help, but

458
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,959
Speaker 1: it helps. Is that the right observation?

459
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: I mean, sure, but okay, so, And the thing is

460
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 2: that I actually turned Harvey down three times, and when

461
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: I had spoken to Roman Pharaoh, I'd forgotten about the

462
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: third time, and it only came to mind later. But

463
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: it was right after the third time that he put

464
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: the Kaibash on my career and blacklisted me for twenty years.

465
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: I was blacklisted for twenty years. I didn't do a

466
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: large studio movie for twenty years, and I've still only

467
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: doen two since twenty eighteen. So I was covered the world.

468
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: I had an oscar in nineteen ninety eight. He shut

469
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: my career down for twenty years. And I still worked.

470
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: I did indies and I did television, but you know,

471
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: I did turn down like one television opportunity that would

472
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: have taken me too much away from my little children,

473
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: you know, So like I could have had a bigger

474
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: career on television probably, but I was you know, I

475
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: have four kids, so and I really wanted to be

476
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 2: present there for them. And so, you know, I said,

477
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: piecemeal together my work through indies and movies and you know,

478
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: television movies and television shows. But when I found out,

479
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: because I had kind of made peace with my career

480
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 2: having fallen from being a list to somewhere nebulus, you know.

481
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: And I still love what I do, and I still

482
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: think I have the same talent and drive, but I

483
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I guess it wasn't meant to be.

484
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: You know, I guess I just wasn't meant to continue

485
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: at that level of career, right. And when I read

486
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 2: on Twitter, it was like December, after the fall of

487
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: the Me Too stuff coming out and me being part

488
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: of Renafaro's Silence Breaker group, and I saw that Peter

489
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 2: Jackson had given an interview in which he admitted that

490
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: he was going to cast me at Ashley Judd in

491
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: the Lord of the Rings trilogy and then did not

492
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: because Harvey and Bob I believe, but definitely Harvey told

493
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: him that we were crazy not to work with us.

494
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I had made four movies with Mira Max,

495
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 2: So how crazy could I have been? Why did they

496
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: keep hiring? You know, I don't think it could be possible, right,

497
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 2: But that really sort of broke my heart because it

498
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: felt like there was this dark hand of malice that

499
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: had come into my life and stolen something that was

500
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 2: rightfully mine away from me just for me not wanting

501
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: to sleep with this disgusting man. Yeah, this disgusting human being,

502
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: this evil, evil, evil predator.

503
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

504
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: And that hurt and that took a while to get

505
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: used to because the one thing of making peace with Okay, well,

506
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: it's just not your night kid, it's just not happening.

507
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: Is different from I'm going to destroy you. I'm going

508
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: to make sure you never enjoy what you deserve because

509
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: you wouldn't play my game. Yeah, you wouldn't let me

510
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: victimize you. You wouldn't make a deal with me. And

511
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: now you're going to suffer, and I'm going to make

512
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: you suffer indefinitely, indefinitely. Yeah, And he had that kind

513
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: of reach, Like, I don't think it was just that

514
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: he told certain filmmakers. I think that Harvey had a

515
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: reach with companies beyond his own, with casting directors on

516
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: his own, and that there was literally a blacklist and

517
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: there were other actors on it that I know that

518
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: are not female, that did not reject him, that he

519
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: just didn't like, and that he affected their career, damp

520
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: at their careers immensely. And once the Met Too stuff

521
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: came out, they remounded, So, you know, And I've become

522
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: good friends with a lot of the fellow Silence breakers,

523
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: and they're really wonderful women, and I just my heart

524
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: breaks for all of them. And I feel like, you know,

525
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: there's a second wave of that sorrow and broken heartiness

526
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: right now because of the Epstein files. And I think

527
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: we all feel such.

528
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: Such sorrow for all the victims, living and dead of

529
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: these you know, this horrendous, horrendous culture of abuse and

530
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: absolute lack of morality and lawlessness and disgusting this and

531
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 3: like predatory, you know.

532
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: More than rape, Like the things that we've heard, the

533
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: things that we've read in the files.

534
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: Ourselves, horrific, heinous.

535
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: You're like, how can this world be true? You know,

536
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: how can how can these people that we thought we

537
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: knew be this bad and have such little regard for

538
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: the beauty of children? You know, children are the most

539
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: defenseless and delightful creatures on this earth. And to be

540
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: to be hurting them in the worst of ways and

541
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: just laughing about it, or finding some kind of sick

542
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: power us, like deriving power ritually from abusing people, abusing girls, children, boys, animals.

543
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: It's unfathomable.

544
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: It's unfathomable. And I think I've been having a really

545
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: hard time with my own emotions during this time, because

546
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: you know, we thought like Harvey was maybe the worst.

547
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: He's not even the worst of it.

548
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: I think that's what has broken my heart is to

549
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: realize that at every level there's a version of this

550
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: to exactly your point, that someone would not just want

551
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: to hurt you in a moment, but would want to

552
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: try to hurt you forever because you didn't want to

553
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: be possessed by them in a way they wanted that

554
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: you did not because you dared to say, I don't

555
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: want that, And so the answer is no to have had.

556
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: You know, my girlfriends and I were so inspired by

557
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: all of you. We spoke out about a boss we'd

558
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: worked for who was terrible, and in the twenty two

559
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: years i've been a full time working actor, I've had

560
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: one really creepy boss and one really terrible costar, and

561
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 1: I think in twenty two years to work with like

562
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: two bad dudes out of as you'll know the thousands

563
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: of people on thousands of sets, and great executs, kidves

564
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: and great writers and great grips and great transvo guys

565
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: and like the best of the best people in our

566
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: weird little circus. I recently was being onboarded to what

567
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: I thought was going to be the job of my dreams,

568
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: and a man in power said, she has problems at work.

569
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: I don't need that energy here, and I thought, wait

570
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: a second. So standing with my friends on one set

571
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: and standing up for other women when I was in

572
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: the power position. On another two instances of standing up

573
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: in twenty two years of maintaining wonderful relationships and friendships

574
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: with everybody else I've worked with for twenty two years,

575
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: I'm the problem and not like the dudes who do this.

576
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: And I've never been in your position, you know, going

577
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: to win an Oscar and going to maybe do one

578
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: of the biggest trilogies of all times. But even in

579
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: my own relative version of the world, I see that

580
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: ripple effect where I go, oh, because I've said no,

581
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: are certain people going to say no to me for

582
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: the rest of my career? Is that what it's going

583
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: to be?

584
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: You just don't know, you know, you just don't know

585
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: who is what, and you just don't know. You just

586
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: don't know if just being outspoken it's not vanilla enough.

587
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,239
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.

588
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: And the sad part is to your point about these

589
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: files and these things, you when the blinders come off,

590
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: you go, oh my god. It's literally everywhere, every version,

591
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: every place, every level, every age, every Oh my god,

592
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: and why. And I don't know the answer to that.

593
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: I think it always has been. I think it's something

594
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: broken about our species that there has always been this

595
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: kind of raping and pillaging instinct. And I don't know

596
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: how we fix that. I don't know how we do it,

597
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: but I think it's sadly it's just endemic. And you know,

598
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: having worked against human trafficking for over twenty years, as

599
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: I started working on it in two thousand and four

600
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: with mc International for two years as their Stop Violence

601
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: against Women campaign spokesperson, and then from two thousand and

602
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: nine to last year, I was UNODC's Good Volunbasser against

603
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 2: human Trafficking. And now I'm on the United Nations Voluntary

604
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: Trust Fund for Victions of Tracking of Persons. Its short

605
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: name is un VTF and I'm on the board of

606
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: trustees for that now. And so I've seen this horror.

607
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: I did not I was naive. I did not think

608
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: it went up to the high sovils of society. I

609
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: didn't understand that. I knew that it was organized crime,

610
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: and I knew that some people were getting very fat

611
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 2: off of the exploitation of you know, fifty million people

612
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: across the globe, but I just I think I was

613
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: reluctant to really look into that heart of darkness and

614
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: understand how very vertically integrated it was, and that that

615
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: came as a shock, right, And I think it. I

616
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: think the whole world is still willing for these things,

617
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, how do other countries are

618
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 2: handling it a lot better than we are right now.

619
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: But hopefully eventually there'll be some some criminal investigations and

620
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: some indictments and convictions eventually, because otherwise what has happened

621
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 2: to us? You know, I don't know.

622
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think you're right, and I think that

623
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: That's what I was going to ask you about, is

624
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm so heartened by and grateful for the organizations you

625
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: just listed that you have worked with for twenty years.

626
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean that that you, in your own way, have

627
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: taken your version of experiencing that kind of darkness and

628
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: trans transmuted it into advocacy for so many other people.

629
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: It's it's understanding that organizations like that have been fighting

630
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,439
Speaker 1: this fight for so long. That is really, I think,

631
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: to me, the only beacon of hope seeing how vertical

632
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: this is. To your point, do you are there is

633
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: that people who want to take the offul and try

634
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: to add their their reaction and reach for that to

635
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: a resiliency. Are there ways for them to get involved?

636
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: Are there ways for them to support anti human trafficking

637
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: efforts to work at the UN Like I know my

638
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: listeners want to rage and change this stuff, and so

639
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: I'm curious as you, as we have you as an

640
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: expert with us today, where would you point people to

641
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: get involved.

642
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: Well, there's always local organizations. Most communities have anti trafficking

643
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: groups within them, and there's like shelters for women and girls.

644
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 2: There's outreach, you know, there's education, there's people who lobby

645
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: for laws in their states to be strengthened or money

646
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 2: to be raised. If you want to do it on

647
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: the you know, the the global scale. If you want

648
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 2: to donate a little money to UNVTF, which you can

649
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 2: go to ENDHT dot org and you'll find information about UNITC,

650
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: the UN Office on Drugs and Crimes Anti Trafficking programs,

651
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: and then you'll find a link to a donation page.

652
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: And we help trafficking survivors across the world, like all

653
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 2: of our grants go to organizations that are on the

654
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 2: ground working to provide aid directly to victims and survivors,

655
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: helping them exit and then helping them rebuild their lives.

656
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: And we are in sixty six countries and we've helped

657
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of people so far. But you know,

658
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: including the US. We're in the US, we're in Latin America,

659
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: We're in Europe, we're in Asia, we're in you know, Africa.

660
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: But I do love the organization. Aim I got the

661
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 2: international missions. I made a documentary about them with CNN

662
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 2: Freedom Project called every Day in Cambodia, and that was

663
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: about virgin sales and Cambodia of young girls in this

664
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: very impoverished community of paper less immigrants who were just

665
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 2: desperate and loan sharks would create these debts and then

666
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: come back to collect by taking the twelve year old

667
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: girl to auction off her virginity. And just, I mean just,

668
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 2: but this organization made like systemic change throughout this community,

669
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: like they actually were healing the whole community and giving

670
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: the parents ways to be self sustained rather than selling

671
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: their kids as their only option to keep food in

672
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: their mouths, and changing the culture and educating the kids.

673
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: They built this school that can hold over three thousand

674
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: students and they take all these kids who used to

675
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: one hundred percent go into sex trafficking or be taken

676
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: into sex trafficking by the time they were twelve or thirteen.

677
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: Like now they're having kids be able to go on

678
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: to high school, go on to college, and be able

679
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: to take their family out of poverty through a dignified way.

680
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: You know, So they're great, aim.

681
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. I think. I think giving people

682
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: trusted places to go is always something that our audience

683
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: is excited about. And then I get when, you know,

684
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: we get emails or dms on the show and people

685
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: are like, I donated my birthday to this cause and

686
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: my family helped me raised all this money. It makes

687
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: me want to sob. It's special to kind of see.

688
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: I think the potential in that. We'll be back in

689
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors.

690
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: I want to get us near the end of the

691
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: interview on a high note, and I think they connect.

692
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: It's not even necessarily a hard pivot. It's actually so

693
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: interesting to me, you know, the way you're talking about

694
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: desperation in a family versus opportunity. It's not lost on

695
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: me that the new movie Signing Tony Raymond, which is

696
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: such a sweet film and it's so beautiful and you

697
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: play such a dreamboat of a mom. I love her,

698
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: but it also, frankly, you're talking about how you know,

699
00:39:54,840 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: the world of professional sports can be predatory, young people

700
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: can be taken advantage of. They can also get the

701
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: future of their dreams. And all this work you've done,

702
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: it seems to me has to have influenced this woman.

703
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: You play this mom where you just say, like, listen,

704
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: my kid is a phenom and a talent and all

705
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: these things, and I'm going to protect him. I'm going

706
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: to make sure he has, you know, the future that

707
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: he deserves. Do you feel like some of that advocacy

708
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: that's in your bones affected you know, who you play

709
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: in this movie.

710
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 2: I have to say it's probably being a mom that

711
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 2: affected it. Being a mama bear because I have four kids,

712
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: and two of my sons are very high level baseball players,

713
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: and your heart leads for them because they work so hard,

714
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 2: and you feel like this is just a dollars game

715
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 2: in a way. You know, people are just trying to

716
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: earn money for their schools by filling the stadiums or

717
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: getting their boosters to donate or whatever, and so you know,

718
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: but I think also, I think Sandy is operating on

719
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: another level too, of feeling like they've been marginalized. These

720
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 2: people are like very poor, and she's lost a child

721
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: in the past due to, you know, sort of a

722
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 2: crazy accident, but you know, being in the wrong environment,

723
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 2: and maybe if she was had a little bit more

724
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: help and a little bit more money, she wouldn't have

725
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 2: been living in an area where her daughter could catch

726
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: like a bacterial infection that killed her, you know. So

727
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 2: she's she's just kind of I think she has a

728
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: chip on her shoulder for being overlooked, for being sort

729
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 2: of written off as a crazy, dumb lady living in

730
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: the sticks, you know, and she's kind of crying out

731
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: for her own dignity as well as the protection of

732
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 2: her son because she sees these like coaches come into

733
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: town trying to promise them the moon and stars, just

734
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 2: to get their son to sign with them. But they

735
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: don't mean most of what they say. Most of what

736
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: they say is just campaign promises, right right. So she's

737
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: just there to assert that I am not stupid, I

738
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 2: see what you're doing, and I still have some kind

739
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 2: of agency, even though she's drowning herself in pills and booze,

740
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: you know, and then that creates some pretty outlandish behavior too,

741
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: which is actually quite comedic. So I kind of loved

742
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 2: her unfetteredness, her sort of wildcat spirit, you know, she's.

743
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: Just yeah, I was gonna say, mama bear like a grizzly.

744
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But inside there's like a real

745
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: beating heart, you know, that has like this suffering that's

746
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: kind of eating away at her. And I love that

747
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: there's a combination of comedy and drama in this movie.

748
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: It's yes, it's it's a wonderful admixture.

749
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. It's my favorite kind of thing to watch. Friends,

750
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: we're going to be back to really dive into signing

751
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: Tony Raymond with the incredible Mirror Sorvino. But before we

752
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: go on today's episode, I have to ask you our

753
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: very favorite question from this moment. When you look out

754
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: at the year ahead, and maybe it's an advocacy, and

755
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: maybe it's in motherhood, and maybe it's I don't know,

756
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: some random thing on your bucket list, what feels like

757
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: your work in progress?

758
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, there's a few. There's a personal project that

759
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: I've been making about Italy that I hope really gets

760
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: off the ground, which is really connected to my emotional

761
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 2: connection to Italy's culture that I was raised by, you know,

762
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 2: with my grandparents and like they're Italy. So we'll see

763
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: if that happens. If it does, I will be like

764
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: the happiest camper, like I just you know, it'll be

765
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: a sort of emotional homecoming for me to get to

766
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: do that and share that with the world. And then

767
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 2: there's a very a project that's super near and dear

768
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: to my heart that we've been working for years to

769
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: get off the ground and I think we are infinitesimously

770
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: close to it being greenlit, but I can't speak about

771
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: it right now, But okay, if it happens the next

772
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: couple of days, I'll let you guys know and then

773
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: you can, you know, give that note or whatever. But

774
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: that that would be huge. That would be just like

775
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 2: a full circle thing for me and would I would

776
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: be so joyous doing it. But you know the rest

777
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 2: of things, I'm just trying to focus on really connecting

778
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: with my children as they're still around, because one of

779
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: my daughters is in college and away and Johnny being home,

780
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: you know, Pepperdine is like amazing for us because we

781
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 2: get to have them back for a year. It was

782
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: like unexpected, you know, but I have two kids left

783
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: living at home, and I just want to be as

784
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 2: focused and connected and not just frittering or in my

785
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 2: time like looking at my phone when they're around or

786
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: something like that, you know, really just being there for

787
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: them and treasuring them because this life is like that,

788
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: you know, having lost dad, having lost friends, you know,

789
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: seeing what life does like. I just want us to

790
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: be there for each other as much as possible, because

791
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 2: ultimately that's the most important thing, and that's you know,

792
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 2: let's circle back to like the the Harvey wan See

793
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: and robbery my career at the same time, if I

794
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: had stayed an A list actress, if I had gone

795
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: from movie to movie to movie, which is what I

796
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: was doing the nineties, I had like three weeks off

797
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: a year and that was it, Like I would go

798
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 2: back to back and I was almost having a nervous

799
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: breakdown because it was so much pressure. I would not

800
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 2: have met my husband, I would not have had my

801
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: four specific children. I probably never would have had four

802
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 2: children because I would have been too busy and too

803
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: worried about the time it would take to recover from

804
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: the pregnancies and get back down to fighting weight and

805
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: be like, you know, professionally available. And you know, I

806
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 2: would have been a more self centered person, I think,

807
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: and I would not have had the time that I

808
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: have had to fully fling myself headlong into the anti

809
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: trafficking work, which has become a gigantic thing for me.

810
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: It's really my second like non paid career. It's like

811
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 2: a it's a blessing for me to be able to

812
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: have an ongoing voice in that fight. So you know,

813
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: my grandmother used to say, not every evil comes to

814
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: destroy us, which is a you know, Southern Italian epithet,

815
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:18,479
Speaker 2: and and and I have held onto that. And yeah,

816
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 2: not that I am ever that I'm ever saying it's

817
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: okay what he did or what he took from me,

818
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 2: But I have a beautiful life that I wouldn't trade,

819
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: is what I mean.

820
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: But I think the beauty and what you're saying, and

821
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: this is a work in progress for me, is to

822
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: realize from your from your grandma's saying, I have some

823
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: of those from min nanas in northern Italy, but that

824
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: even where things break, that's where the light gets in.

825
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: And I think when when you find the light in

826
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: the ways you've been broken. I actually think that's how

827
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: you alchemize the way humans have a tendency to be

828
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: into the potential of what we could be if we

829
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: keep doing that work. And I think that is that's

830
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: like the craft of humanity. And I think, particularly for mothers,

831
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: that is the work because women are going to be

832
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: the ones who fix this. So I don't, at least

833
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: as someone who's so thrilled to share space with you today,

834
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an excusing of what happened to you.

835
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: But I do think it's a figuring out how there

836
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: was no way your life was not going to be

837
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: beautiful no matter what anybody else tried.

838
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: And I sorry.

839
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: I love that for you, and I love the example

840
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: that that sets, so thank you.

841
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, And I could have done any of this

842
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: without God, right, I'm very I'm quite religious, so like

843
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: Jesus and God for me, if I did not have

844
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 2: then I would be dead. I'd be dead right now, honestly,

845
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: So you know that that is my personal way of

846
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: getting through it, as well as with the love of

847
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: family and friends and my husband and everything. But yeah,

848
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 2: I would have to say that it would be false

849
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: not to say that yeah, I love that for you.