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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're a weekly reminder that when there's bad things happening,

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Speaker 2: there's people trying to do good things, and often those

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Speaker 2: people are trying to destroy technology. Well, at least that's

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Speaker 2: this week's rewind, because we are doing a rewind this

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Speaker 2: week because I had last week off, Imagine that, and I,

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Speaker 2: for some weird reason, am thinking about the ways that

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Speaker 2: people revolt against technology and how it's not actually usually

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Speaker 2: about like I just don't like the future or technology itself,

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Speaker 2: but instead about the way that technology is influencing culture

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Speaker 2: and economics. Because this week we're talking about the Ludites,

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Speaker 2: and this week we're going to include my favorite last

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Speaker 2: words of all time. Hello, and welcome to cool people

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Speaker 2: who built a militant, popular social movement in face of

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Speaker 2: your state depression and therefore splintered into a reformist wing

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Speaker 2: that failed, as well as a more clandestine wing that

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Speaker 2: also failed, but still changed the course of history. Your

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Speaker 2: weekly podcast that does exactly what it says in the

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Speaker 2: title almost every week. I'm your host, Margaret Kildrey. Well

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Speaker 2: with me today, as my guest is do I get

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Speaker 2: this right? Robert Avon's host of the podcast derrier les Salude. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: podcast that focuses on all the bad people in French history.

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Speaker 2: I get that right, Yeah, all of that's perfect. I

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Speaker 2: continue to be amazed that the Apple people let that

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Speaker 2: title into the into iTunes or whatever tunes.

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Speaker 3: They use these days. But I guess they knew brilliance

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Speaker 3: when they saw it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly because they didn't well or they were you know,

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Speaker 2: just actually spoke French and didn't realize that derriere had

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Speaker 2: a different meaning in English. M Oh, yeah, that's so

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Speaker 2: that's probably what happened.

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Speaker 3: What are we hearing about today, magpie?

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Speaker 2: Well, you ever had a piece of technology that you

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Speaker 2: just couldn't stand, one that made you, dare I say

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Speaker 2: it feel like a bit of a luddite?

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Speaker 3: Yes, everything that is more recent than about twenty twelve,

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Speaker 3: with the exception what I'll say, this shows you how

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Speaker 3: badly Star Trek the next generation hacked my brain. Anything

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Speaker 3: that's like a cool screen, like a folding screen or

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Speaker 3: a transparent screen, I'm still on board with. I love

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Speaker 3: a cool screen. I can't get past that part of

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Speaker 3: growing up on TNG. But yeah, self driving cars, no,

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Speaker 3: thank you AI anything, No fucking thank you. I can't

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Speaker 3: even really good on board with the tiktoks.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm like annoyed that I'm so actively annoyed

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Speaker 2: that they're trying to ban it. Yeah, I also don't

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Speaker 2: want to use it. But what I do want to

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Speaker 2: do is remember to do the rest of my introduction,

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Speaker 2: including introducing our producer, Sophie Hi.

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Speaker 1: Sophie Hi, Robert doesn't know how to use most technology,

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Speaker 1: but yet knows how to report on it. It's really

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Speaker 1: fun for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, his business, he's kind of impressive.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh.

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Speaker 1: I can't even tell you the amount of times I

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Speaker 1: explained things to him and went but you started as

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Speaker 1: a tech tourtalist.

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Speaker 2: What are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: How could you not do basic human thing in Roberts,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Let me tell you about something nobody

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Speaker 1: has ever heard of and explain it perfectly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of it is that like Abe Simpson saying,

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Speaker 2: it'll happen to you, because like my dad was an

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Speaker 2: early adopter. He like didn't have a ton of money

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Speaker 2: and he spent all of it on computers, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was my dad as well. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 3: or more than more than he should have. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: and uh and no doesn't I mean, you know whatever

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Speaker 3: I mean. But I'm starting to hit that point myself.

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Speaker 2: I was like explaining computer things to my dad and

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Speaker 2: now I'm like, you know, one of my friends like

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Speaker 2: takes the remote away from me while I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: navigate the YouTube menu, and it's like, give it to me, Grandma.

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Speaker 3: Hyah. Garrison gives me no end of shit because I

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Speaker 3: love having motions smoothing on. Well's the most boomer thing

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Speaker 3: I've ever said.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really upsetting. None of us would be anywhere

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Speaker 1: with technology without our wonderful editor. And who is he?

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Speaker 2: Danel? That was a really good transition.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like I'm a professional.

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Speaker 3: Weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, someone should actually pay you at this point, That's.

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Speaker 3: What I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should get on that. Daniel is our audio editor.

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Speaker 4: Everyone says saying hi to Daniel.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Danel, Hi, Daniel Hy Daniel. Our theme musical is

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Speaker 2: written for us by unwoman. All right, so follow up question.

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Speaker 2: You have the technology that makes you feel like a

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Speaker 2: bit of a lud eite. What's your take on industrial

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Speaker 2: revolution and its consequences for humanity?

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Speaker 3: You know, consequences is such a big word, and to

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Speaker 3: be honest, I don't think you can. Really. We're still

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Speaker 3: waiting to see are we going to pull out of

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Speaker 3: this climate tail spin that we are currently in before

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Speaker 3: it it kills everything of value on the planet. And uh,

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Speaker 3: I think the question, I think until we get the

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Speaker 3: final answer to that, we won't be able to say

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Speaker 3: for sure because there's obviously there's a lot of horrible downsides,

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Speaker 3: you know, yeah, fucking sweatshops and industrial war and shit.

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Speaker 3: But there's also like labor saving devices. There's god knows

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Speaker 3: how many people have had a chance to explore themselves art, creativity,

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Speaker 3: just spend more time, you know, with their family because

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Speaker 3: of labor saving devices. So I'm going to I'm going

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Speaker 3: to say, like the this is still a neck and

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Speaker 3: neck fight right now, Like we'll see, we'll see who

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Speaker 3: hits the finish line first.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I I feel like one team called climate change

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Speaker 2: is pulled out ahead.

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Speaker 3: It's yes, yes, look is that? Is that? Is that

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Speaker 3: the best odds you're gonna get right now? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? But yeah, but I would I would put words

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Speaker 2: in your mouth and say that appropriate technology is a

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Speaker 2: beautiful thing and a worthwhile thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly can be.

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Speaker 2: And so sometimes people assume that to be a luttite

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Speaker 2: is to be against all technology, and that the people

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Speaker 2: fighting against the Industrial Revolution were against the idea of

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Speaker 2: making life better. And today we're going to talk about them.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the Lunites. Hell, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: know much about the Luddites. I know that they were

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Speaker 2: skilled workers, mainly in the garment industry, like weaving and

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Speaker 2: like that, which is just having done one part of that,

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Speaker 2: like shearing the animal part of it. It's the whole.

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Speaker 2: Like the amount of human labor before we developed the

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Speaker 2: machines we've developed was titanic. And my understanding is a

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Speaker 2: lot of them did not like that these machines were

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Speaker 2: coming in, at least certain types of the machines that

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Speaker 2: came in to automate this process, because they turned it

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Speaker 2: from a skilled trade where people, the people doing it

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Speaker 2: were valuable and had some leverage because you needed it

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Speaker 2: done and only a certain number of people knew how

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Speaker 2: to do it to something that where they were all

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Speaker 2: just kind of slotted in like little machines themselves, right,

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Speaker 2: And they viewed it as like reducing the dignity and

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Speaker 2: of labor, among other problems, yeah, I would say that

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Speaker 2: that's a good overall look at the Luddites and what

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Speaker 2: they were doing is that they were opposed to what

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Speaker 2: the machines were doing, rather than like that thing has

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Speaker 2: too many spinning wheels.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. The issue isn't I don't like machines because they

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Speaker 3: do things better. It's I don't like the way these

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Speaker 3: machines are being used to turn us into machines. Right.

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Speaker 2: And also, interestingly, a lot of people are really proud

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Speaker 2: of their work, and some of these machines, not all

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Speaker 2: of them, but some of these machines were absolutely turning

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Speaker 2: out junk. We're turning out inferior quality work.

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Speaker 3: Oh. Interesting, I wonder if that's going to ever happen again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm not sure. I actually don't think that

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Speaker 2: this has any reflection. This is a very in the past,

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Speaker 2: no modern Okay, well I'll just get into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen eleven, during the middle of the Industrial Revolution,

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Speaker 2: a bunch of textile workers in northern England came together

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Speaker 2: to fight against the mechanization of their industry. Labor organizing

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Speaker 2: had been outlawed, so this didn't stop them. They formed

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Speaker 2: a secret society and they went about smashing machines with hammers,

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Speaker 2: burning down factories, and occasionally shooting back at the owners

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Speaker 2: who were shooting and killing them on a regular basis.

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Speaker 2: A bunch of them were men wearing dresses.

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Speaker 3: Love to see it, I mean it's efficient, it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: all that room to move, you know. I go hiking

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Speaker 3: all the time in long skirts and people are like,

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Speaker 3: what are you doing? That's gonna catch on things? And

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Speaker 3: it's just like, I've been doing this for a very

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Speaker 3: long time. When you're doing a lot of hallucinogens, you

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Speaker 3: learn the best way to do certain things. And that's

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Speaker 3: how I realized that the most efficient kind of dress

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Speaker 3: was like a slightly longer than ankle length skirt. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like dress in terms of clothing, Yeah, that's totally stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the maxi skirt. This is the finest thing. It's

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Speaker 2: pajamas you can wear all day.

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Speaker 3: It's easy to make too. I used to make my

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Speaker 3: own skirts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's actually the only thing I used to

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Speaker 2: be able to sew.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not a great se just that.

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Speaker 2: So these ludites pushed England right to the brink of

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Speaker 2: outright revolution. The other thing that I didn't realize coming

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Speaker 2: into this was just how big of a deal the

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Speaker 2: Luodite Rebellion was. The government decided to declare its loyalty

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Speaker 2: with the owners and not the people. Soldiers put down

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Speaker 2: the uprising quite violently. A bunch of people were hanged,

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Speaker 2: a bunch of people were deported to Australia, and the

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Speaker 2: lud eight Rebellion was quelled. Its songs and its name

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Speaker 2: live on, though mostly sadly are quite horribly misrepresented. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a few mainstream of it narratives available about our friends,

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Speaker 2: the Luddites. The first, of course, is the simplistic version.

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Speaker 2: Some people didn't like technology, so they smashed up machines

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Speaker 2: because they hated change. Sure, and then if you're going

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Speaker 2: galaxy brain chart, Next up is the more historically informed one.

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Speaker 2: The Luddite and hate technology is a concept. They hated

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Speaker 2: the automation of their jobs that robbed them of employment,

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Speaker 2: like kind of like cashier's matt itself checkout lines or something. Sure,

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Speaker 2: you can keep going higher up you get to kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, It's not that the Luddites had one

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Speaker 2: job in a factory and suddenly had a different job

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Speaker 2: in a factory so that they didn't have a factory

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Speaker 2: job at all. They had a job as an artisan,

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Speaker 2: right yeah. And the ludite rebellion is positioned in the

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Speaker 2: midst of the Industrial Revolution, and it was a revolt

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Speaker 2: by those used to artisans, skilled labor and a life

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Speaker 2: with some level of dignity and as you pointed out,

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Speaker 2: some level of bargaining power, right yeah. And from this

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Speaker 2: point of view, it is a revolt against the modern world,

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Speaker 2: is a revolt against what future friend of the Pod

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Speaker 2: Woiam Blake, only seven years earlier had called the dark

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Speaker 2: satanic mills of industry that were cropping up.

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Speaker 3: M okay, but that kind of makes them sound cool too.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the problems when you hang out

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Speaker 2: mostly in history books from like the early eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people saying really cool stuff are framing

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Speaker 2: it theologically, and so they're like confusing my like metal

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Speaker 2: head conception of what makes something cool, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Because I if like somebody was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I've opened up like an occult themed like wool clothes shop,

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Speaker 3: could I would you donate some of your wool to

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Speaker 3: the dark Satanic loom or whatever? Look, absolutely, that sounds

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Speaker 3: based totally, Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 2: And so most of the time, people who see the

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Speaker 2: under these underlying issues still see the Luddites as like

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Speaker 2: at best, hopeless romantics who couldn't handle the changing of industry,

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Speaker 2: like like the whalers who lost their job when lighting

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Speaker 2: moved away from whale oil and towards petroleum, or the

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Speaker 2: coal miners and Apalachia currently facing the decline of their industry. Right,

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Speaker 2: And so it's this narrative of progress and these people

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Speaker 2: who are like tragically left behind. I don't buy that narrative.

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Speaker 2: I will present the industrial revolution not as a benign

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Speaker 2: or neutral thing, but instead the birth of capitalism and

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Speaker 2: industrial production that are again, I'm guessing, are going to

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Speaker 2: have irrevocable danger to all of humanity in the world.

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Speaker 2: They were not a tiny group doing an isolated rebellion.

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Speaker 2: I want to position them as revolutionists in the middle

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Speaker 2: of a decentralized global uprising in defense of the commons.

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Speaker 2: And did you know that it started with a comet

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Speaker 2: in the sky A most good things do, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Like I think that the well, I guess there's the

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Speaker 2: Bible star thing. But I think overall, if you read

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Speaker 2: like classic works of literature, and there's like the Omen

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Speaker 2: of the comet in the sky. Yeah, the comet of

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Speaker 2: eighteen eleven, I think is where that comes from.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: For two hundred and sixty days, from March eighteen eleven

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Speaker 2: to January eighteen twelve, a massive comet held court in

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Speaker 2: the heavens. Its tail was stretched out for everyone to see,

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Speaker 2: everyone of the Rthern hemisphere. Yeah, the Great comment of

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Speaker 2: eighteen eleven. It found its way into the writings of

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Speaker 2: Tolstoy and Victor Hugo and William Blake. Tolstoy I wasn't

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Speaker 2: alive yet, but it ends up in his writings, sure,

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Speaker 2: and it was seen as a portent all over the

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Speaker 2: world by all kinds of uprisings. Mostly people were like,

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Speaker 2: you think the world's ending, and everyone's like, pretty sure, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: pretty sure, the world's ending.

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Speaker 3: I think there's another thing psychologically going on here too.

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Speaker 3: And I just say this because of like how I

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Speaker 3: tend to interpret some of the things that I've experienced

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Speaker 3: in my life that I could see as supernatural or whatever,

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Speaker 3: which is that most people who recognize that like something

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Speaker 3: is fucked up and they need to do something about

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Speaker 3: all the fucked up shit are also like, but I

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Speaker 3: don't want to like die or you know, sacrifice my

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Speaker 3: life or whatever, and you're kind of looking for an

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Speaker 3: excuse that like, Okay, it's the time to act, and

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Speaker 3: anything that happens that's weird is like, well, shit, I

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Speaker 3: guess it was that, right, Like, that's as good as

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Speaker 3: I've been looking for an excuse to start, you know,

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Speaker 3: the process of fighting back. And I guess this commet's

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Speaker 3: as good as any.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, that makes a lot of sense to me because

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Speaker 2: it's like they knew it was a comet. Yeah, like

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Speaker 2: they had astronomy and stuff. You know, it still meant

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Speaker 2: a lot to them symbolically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense to me.

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Speaker 2: And there were a lot of uprisings in eighteen eleven

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Speaker 2: and eighteen twelve, and some of them used very consciously

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Speaker 2: the language of defending the Commons. Some of them didn't,

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Speaker 2: but all of them, well, all the ones that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to talk about, were fighting for a way of

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Speaker 2: life that hadn't been defined by capitalism, colonialism, or the

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Speaker 2: great enclosures of the commons. To talk about the commons,

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Speaker 2: I talk about the commons reasonably often, but I think

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Speaker 2: this is like one of the more important concepts to understand,

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Speaker 2: where we're at now is in short, in a lot

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Speaker 2: of cultures, but most notably medieval England, because they managed

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Speaker 2: to export culture and language all over the world through

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Speaker 2: power process of domination. You had what was known as

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Speaker 2: the commons and the idea that most of the land

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Speaker 2: was just kind of publicly owned, like, well, why would

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Speaker 2: you own that. It's not your house or yard. Of course,

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Speaker 2: people can just go collect firewood, hunt gray's sheep, maybe

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Speaker 2: grow some potatoes. It's land. Use it like land, everyone

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Speaker 2: can use it. It's land. It's the commons. And then

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Speaker 2: you get the enclosure of the commons, which was the

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Speaker 2: privatization of it, which was literal and direct, and England

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Speaker 2: was carved up by stone fences, hedgerows and ditches dividing

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Speaker 2: everything up. I like, whenever you see like an old

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Speaker 2: movie and it's like medieval England and someone like runs

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Speaker 2: through a hedge along the side of the road, it

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Speaker 2: makes me feel like that couldn't be real, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: But that actually was. That was what was happening by

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Speaker 2: late medieval England.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess the last gasp of it is here

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Speaker 3: out on the west coast, you have a shitload more

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Speaker 3: BLM land in Oregon and Washington and even big chunks

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Speaker 3: of California. You regularly find yourself in these vast tracks

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Speaker 3: of land that's just like, well, this is all of

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Speaker 3: ours right, Like it's it's still kind of the last

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Speaker 3: gasp of that attitude, I guess because white people haven't

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Speaker 3: been here as long.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. The public lands in the US are

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Speaker 2: a really interesting and BLM is like more directly just

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Speaker 2: used as like, huh, do whatever you want. Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so this enclosure started in the medieval period and

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Speaker 2: just kept ramping up through the nineteenth century. We've talked

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Speaker 2: a bunch about the seventeenth century anti enclosure rebels. If

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Speaker 2: people want to hear more about it, go listen to

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Speaker 2: the episode with the about the diggers, the levelers and

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Speaker 2: the ranters. And then the Industrial Revolution kicked off and

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Speaker 2: everything got more enclosurey by the end of the eighteenth century.

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Speaker 2: By like the seventeen nineties or so, things are really

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Speaker 2: fucking heated in this way. In the seventeen nineties there

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Speaker 2: are twenty five parliamentary enclosure acts in England. By eighteen

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Speaker 2: eleven there were one hundred and thirty three geez, and

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Speaker 2: the enclosure wasn't just of land. Everything suddenly had to

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Speaker 2: be discreete like with the tea in between the two

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Speaker 2: e's and regimented rivers became canals. Language became more codified.

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Speaker 2: You started getting like dictionaries and lexicons published, which overall,

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Speaker 2: like I'm not inherently against that. Right alongside of that,

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Speaker 2: press censorship went up. Yeah, class divisions became even more pronounced,

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Speaker 2: which I totally don't entirely understand because England's like one

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Speaker 2: of the most class divided places in the world. You know, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they speak a different language from each other, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yea.

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Speaker 2: At this point, during the enclosure of the commons, the

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Speaker 2: word common takes on its negative connotations. Soldiers start living

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Speaker 2: in separate. They start living separate from everyone else, housed

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Speaker 2: in barracks. The prison industrial complex kicks in. Prisons are

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Speaker 2: being built everywhere. Prisoners are doing a lot of the

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Speaker 2: labor for building this infrastructure in England. England became famous

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Speaker 2: and actually mocked for building so many barracks and prisons,

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Speaker 2: Like what that was wrong with these people? The enclosure

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Speaker 2: also came for gender. To quote author Peter Liinbau quote,

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Speaker 2: the household became part of the system of enclosure. The

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Speaker 2: genders were separated by doctrine of the two spheres, the

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Speaker 2: private sphere for women and the public sphere for men.

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Speaker 2: The wife ceased to have a legal persona or existence. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And prior to the Industrial Revolution, most manufacturing was done

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Speaker 2: by artisans working at home or in small workshops, which

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Speaker 2: is now called kind of disparagingly a cottage industry. Right,

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Speaker 2: these cottages became factories, and this was a way more

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Speaker 2: efficient way to speed up the process of destroying the

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Speaker 2: Earth's atmosphere, and it was also a substantial decreasing quality

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Speaker 2: of life for the individual producers. It also had like

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Speaker 2: some positive knock on a like if you ever read

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Speaker 2: about how long it took to make cloth back in

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Speaker 2: the day with yes and spinning and weaving, like that

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Speaker 2: was your life was?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that that is. There's a really

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Speaker 3: good a historian who does like a blog kind of

362
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Speaker 3: analyzing myths about classical civilizations. He's did a multipiece one

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Speaker 3: on the Spartans, trying to talk about like how oppressed

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Speaker 3: the helots were. And one of the things he goes

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Speaker 3: into is if you are a woman and a family,

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Speaker 3: most of your life is making and maintaining clothing for

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Speaker 3: your family and not to have multiple outfits just to

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Speaker 3: be able because you're wearing them every day. They're getting

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Speaker 3: warned by outside work and when you're taxing you know,

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Speaker 3: half or what. Like, it's like eighty hours a week

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Speaker 3: for a lot of people for basically your whole life,

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Speaker 3: like maintaining forty to eighty hours a week, depending you know,

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Speaker 3: on a couple of things, maintaining and whatnot, clothing for

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Speaker 3: your family, like it is like a nightmare burden.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, I remember reading once that it was like

376
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Speaker 2: to make a square of linen was about a week's

377
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Speaker 2: worth of labor someone who knew what they were doing.

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Speaker 3: There are very few people alive today who do anything

379
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Speaker 3: as hard as maintaining clothing for a family back in

380
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Speaker 3: like that period of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And that's what's so frustrating, right He's like, well,

382
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Speaker 2: I love my dishwasher, right, yeah, yeah, it's great. Yeah

383
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Speaker 2: the time, I don't, and I didn't have one until

384
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Speaker 2: I was, you know, in my late thirties, right yeah,

385
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Speaker 2: but you know, and I was like, oh, I don't

386
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Speaker 2: mean one of those wash dishes that's meditative. I love that.

387
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Speaker 2: I just like rinse off my dishes, throw them in

388
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Speaker 2: the dishwasher, like, yeah, no it is, it's And this

389
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Speaker 2: is what's so frustrating, because yeah, it's very natural to

390
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Speaker 2: look at this and be like, well, I don't want

391
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Speaker 2: to go back to everyone having to hand weave everything, right.

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Speaker 3: Of course not, I would just freeze to death.

393
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Speaker 2: The very first factories of the industrial Revolution were textile factories,

394
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Speaker 2: producing the cloth that got sent out to the various cottages.

395
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Speaker 2: So that was the first part to be industrialized. Yeah,

396
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: textile was big business in England, the largest industry in England.

397
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Speaker 2: A million people around ten percent of the country was

398
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Speaker 2: involved in the wool industry alone. Then cotton started coming

399
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Speaker 2: in from India in the US, and that was even

400
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Speaker 2: easier to work. You get your first textile machine, the

401
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: stocking frame, invented in fifteen eighty nine. People of all

402
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 2: genders wore stockings and not pants, and this was made

403
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Speaker 2: of knitted wool, and so this was a way of

404
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 2: automating or at least rapid incredibly speeding up that process.

405
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Speaker 2: The queen was like, if you patent that, it'll fuck

406
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Speaker 2: over all the poor people know, it'll trash her economy,

407
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 2: So she didn't let it be patented. And during the

408
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 2: chunks of the medieval period you have this thing in

409
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 2: England that you still see today where the crown is

410
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 2: seen as what protects the commoners from like poverty and

411
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Speaker 2: the non noble rich you know what later becomes the

412
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Speaker 2: capitalist class. But slowly, surely knitting was automated.

413
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Speaker 3: Makes sense to me, like the role of the because

414
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 3: if you're the queen or the king or whatever, you're

415
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 3: on top of your social hierarchy. Everyone below them is

416
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 3: constantly jockeying and fighting for power and influence, and the

417
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 3: primary way to do that is by finding new ways

418
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 3: to fuck over the poor, Whereas if you're on top,

419
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 3: you're not jockeying for power over the others, but you

420
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 3: do always have to keep an eye on like, are

421
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Speaker 3: the poor pissed off enough that they might kill us?

422
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 3: All right, so you're the only one that hit that

423
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Speaker 3: is really focused on that.

424
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Speaker 2: No, you're right, that is such a good point. That

425
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Speaker 2: is where you're uh, yeah, that's that's uh.

426
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Speaker 3: You're probably going too far yet, Yeah, but you know

427
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: what doesn't go too far except some of the ads

428
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: we've been getting lately occasionally handled yes, yes, the other.

429
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Speaker 2: Ads that aren't in support of genocidal regimes or becoming jailers.

430
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Speaker 2: Don't do either of those two things.

431
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Speaker 3: That's right.

432
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Speaker 2: But anything else that's being sold, you should buy it.

433
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 4: And we're back.

434
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 3: I feel bad Margaret because you said jailor, and I

435
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 3: forgot to immediately respond jailor. I hardly know her. That's

436
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 3: my bit. Yeah, a lot of stuff. It's a good bit.

437
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: It's pretty original, it's great, it's great.

438
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 3: Sophie loves it. Sophie loves that. I do it. Anytime

439
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: someone says anything with an er at the end.

440
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Robert. I barely know air.

441
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: That to see perfect it always does.

442
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: Don't encourge this magfi.

443
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 4: Sorry.

444
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: Sorry.

445
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: By the mid seventeen hundreds, you've got what's called a

446
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 2: spinning Jenny, which automates a lot of yarn spinning. The

447
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: inventors saw this machine smashed in front of him, and

448
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 2: he had the fleet town.

449
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 3: I'm thinking back to when those local youths in Oakland

450
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 3: destroyed that self driving car the other week.

451
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, I haven't seen this yet.

452
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 3: Lit it on fire. Yeah good.

453
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: And it's not that the concept of a car that

454
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: drives itself is inherently bad, but within the system that

455
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: we live in. It's going to drive you to jail.

456
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 2: It's going to drive you to jail. It's going to

457
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: take money from poor people and give all of it

458
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: to the same four guys who are already taking money

459
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: from poor people. Like that is the issue, exactly, and

460
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 2: that is what is happening here with industrialization. You're not

461
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 2: like a lot of people at this point are using

462
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: machines for their work, and they've found ways to be

463
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: skilled laborers using these machines.

464
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 4: Yeah.

465
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people who get wool, either

466
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 3: from their own animals or from other people's animals, and

467
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 3: spin it and use it to make clothing. And they

468
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 3: don't have to spend eighty hours a week to barely

469
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 3: maintain one guard because they use modern tools to do

470
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: all that. They just are all so artisans.

471
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, And so soon enough the spinning jenny

472
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: is attached to a water wheel, and then you get

473
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: the steam engine. And suddenly, because you have a steam engine,

474
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: you have way more coal mines, and then you have

475
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: to build canals to connect them all with convict labor,

476
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 2: and there's factories with smoke stacks all over the countryside,

477
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 2: and who worked the factories. Well, it's fucking England, so

478
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: it's children as young as six years old. Two thirds

479
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 2: of the workers in these early factories were children, especially

480
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: orphans hired out essentially slave labor, hired from orphanages and workhouses. Yeah,

481
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: and so people are like, oh, we don't like this,

482
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 2: And later people are like, oh, they clearly just hate

483
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 2: not working all the time. They're like, no, the smoke stacks,

484
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: the child slavery anyway.

485
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't really know what cancer is, but we're

486
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 3: pretty sure this is causing it.

487
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we shouldn't be breathing this. That's all I know.

488
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: So the comments are enclosed, and people start seeing their

489
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: way of life disappear, and their quality of life dropped dramatically,

490
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: and they didn't accept it. They fought back. Sometimes they

491
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 2: did it chaotically, sometimes they did it in an organized fashion.

492
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: And they did this all over the world. I hate

493
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: to give the US Revolution much credit. If you've heard

494
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: any other episode, it just me talking shit on the

495
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 2: US Revolution. But it really did change the world. And

496
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: this wave of republicanism spread over Europe, inspiring the French

497
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 2: Revolution soon after, and people started being like, hey, what

498
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: if we had like rights like what if? Like what

499
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: an idea? You know, And by seventeen ninety two you

500
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: have the London Corresponding Society, which is one of the

501
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: first working class organizations. It is basically a proto trade union.

502
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: It was started by a shoemaker and some buds. It

503
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: was open to everyone and it fought for democracy. So

504
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: the government passed the Combination Acts that made union organizing illegal.

505
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: And uh, one thing we've seen time and time again

506
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: is that if you make union organizing illegal, people don't

507
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: sit down and shut up. They start sabotaging things.

508
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, you have you have you have taken the

509
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 3: option of them to fight without destroying your property or

510
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: your body. So they're going to do one of those

511
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 3: two things right and they usually even start with just property.

512
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: And the Lights are an absolute example of this. Yeah,

513
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 3: Thomas Hardy was the shoemaker that helped found that organization. Well,

514
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 3: I know the only cast for that guy if we're

515
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 3: making a movie about this. Oh, I don't know Tom Harwait.

516
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I don't know any yep, Okay, that's an actor.

517
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 3: That's mad Max and in Fury Road. Oh shit, yeah

518
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, yeah, no, yeah, he can do this job.

519
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 2: Sure, I think sometimes people were like, oh, Margaret doesn't

520
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: any pop culture references. I watch a ton of movies

521
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: and TV. I'm just face blind and don't remember names.

522
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 3: That's fine.

523
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: So Thomas Hardy from Mad Max is saved by the

524
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: work of a man who is often called the first

525
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 2: anarchist in Western society, William Godwin. He comes way or

526
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: before Pruden, and he's.

527
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 4: Way less of a dick.

528
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's this click of aristocracy around this time,

529
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 2: connected with the Romantic poets who are going to fight

530
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: hard and at personal expense and risk for the working class,

531
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: including fighting for the Luddites. One day, I'm going to

532
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: do this whole episode where I talk about William Godwin

533
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: and his wife Mary Wolstoncraft, who wrote one of the

534
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: foundational feminist books, and I had a kid named Mary

535
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: Shelley who invented science fiction, who married Percy Shelley, the

536
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: Romantic poet and upstart. But that'll be another episode. Although

537
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: most of those characters are going to come in today

538
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: because they're all part of the loved each shit in

539
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: some weird way. So Godwin puts pressure on is like

540
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: use of the fact.

541
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 4: That he's like a rich bastard or whatever.

542
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, to put pressure and be like, hey, maybe

543
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: don't hang a guy for starting a working men's association.

544
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: Maybe that's going to cause some trouble. People are fighting

545
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: back because people are always fighting back. And one of

546
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: the people who fought back was his kid who probably

547
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: didn't exist. And his name's Ned lud Ah. Yeah, he's

548
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: a Robin Hood figure, partly in that he probably didn't exist.

549
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: But it's seventeen seventy nine. According to most versions of

550
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: this story, You've got this kid named Edward Ludd who

551
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: lives in the Midlands in England, and he's apprentice. He's

552
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: learning the knitting frame, and he has a shitty boss

553
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: sometimes it's his dad, and he's not so sure that

554
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: doing the same repetitive motion his entire life is like

555
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: his best plan. And so he's a bit of a slacker.

556
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: So he's whipped for slacking. So he gets a big

557
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: old hammer, he smashes up the machine and he fucking

558
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: takes off to Sherwood Forest. Because this happens in fucking Nodingham.

559
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is very familiar, though Sophie and

560
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: I have dealt with a very similar labor problem here

561
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: at cools out.

562
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

563
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's why Garrison's not allowed a hammer anymore. Yeah,

564
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 3: and is only allowed is living in the forest. Yes,

565
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 3: that was happening before as well.

566
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: But oh, okay, so young Garet disappears into legend or

567
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: is entirely made up and is sort of the paragon

568
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: of machine smashing. By eighteen oh two, you've got another

569
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: machine smashing that we can say isn't legend. There's been

570
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: a bunch of machine smashings before this. Oh, there's actually

571
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: this thing. It didn't make it in my script, but

572
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: I had this conversation with a friend of mine who's

573
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: like a historian. He knows a lot about like the

574
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: revolutions of eighteen forty eight and the birth of socialism

575
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. And he was telling me about

576
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: how the old heads, the old Blood Heights, when they're

577
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: like showing up to the eighteen forty eight revolution and

578
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: they're like, ah, it's time to throw it down, it's

579
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: time to smash machines. And everyone from the eighteen forty

580
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: eight revolution is like, seize the machines. We're gonna seize

581
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: the machinery. And everyone from eighteen forty eight is like

582
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: that's what we said, smash it, and there's just a

583
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: culture difference, a generation gap, if you will. Eighteen o two,

584
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: there's another machine smashing that is not legend. Some folks

585
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: torched a whole less factory, doing nearly a million dollars

586
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: of damn in today's money. The owner claimed that an

587
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: apprentice had held him at gunpoint while his friends burned

588
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: the place. More power to that kid if it was true,

589
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: but it probably wasn't. Despite lack of evidence, the kid

590
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: was arrested, he refused to talk or confess, and he

591
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: was hanged on his nineteenth birthday Jesus Christ. Thousands of

592
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: people came to his funeral. They loved hanging. We'll talk

593
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: about it actually a little bit later. England loved hanging people.

594
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

595
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he died in early martyr of the war

596
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: against capitalism.

597
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

598
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: More sabotage abound, and sometimes workers successfully won things like

599
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: not taking a pay cut and not being replaced by machines.

600
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: And this fight for the commons was happening all over

601
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: the world. It ties into all kinds of struggles. The

602
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: real MVP toolbreakers are the enslaved black people of North America.

603
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: Enslave people in the South broke their tools so much

604
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: that Southern tools weighed three times what northern tools did

605
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: because they had to make them so that people couldn't

606
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: break them.

607
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

608
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in eighteen eleven, with that comet in the sky,

609
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: the US saw the largest slave uprising in its history,

610
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 2: at least by numbers of participants. The eighteen eleven German

611
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: Coast Uprising, it said, hundreds of folks, including a lot

612
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: of Maroons, people who are already living free, who were

613
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: like leaving their Maroon communities to come put their lives

614
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: on the line free more people. They marched on New Orleans.

615
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: It didn't go well. Ninety five of them died.

616
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 3: I meant, most trips to New Orleans don't go well. Right,

617
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 3: we can all be honest about that great city. But yeah,

618
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 3: a lot of people die. A lot of people die there.

619
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, they only killed two white people, and the slavers

620
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: put their heads on pikes and left them by the

621
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: side of the road and shit full.

622
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh wow, Like, well, Roman that's pre medieval. That's okay,

623
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't heads. But like when the Romans

624
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 3: defeated Spartacus's army, they crucified I mean presumably. I think

625
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: it was for miles and miles, like on the road

626
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: for miles leading to Rome. They just lighted it with

627
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: crucified bodies.

628
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: Now tell me how to open a PDF document.

629
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: See, I was just thinking. I was like, well, I

630
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: really like having Robert on because because Robert's deep dives

631
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: of history are slightly temporally and geographically different than mine.

632
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: Mine lean a little bit more towards like Ireland and Norway,

633
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: or like Finland and you know dark ages, and yours

634
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: are a little bit more Grecian and Roman.

635
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: I absolutely am one of those people who thinks about

636
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 3: the ancient Roman Empire every single day of my life.

637
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, neither of us know how to know

638
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: anything useful.

639
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you yell at Garrison until they fix it.

640
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: You can't.

641
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: Garrison's living in the forest. So now I yell at

642
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 3: my roommates. Oh true, True, he doesn't pay rent. He

643
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: just fixes my machine. Means when they break every day,

644
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: that's not a bad deal. It's a solid deal, I think.

645
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: Y Yeah, for everyone. So the same year eighteen eleven,

646
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: you've also got the Red Sticks, who've covered a bit

647
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: in the episode about negro Fort in Florida and they

648
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: are indigenous warriors fighting for their way of life. And

649
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 2: it's tied in with this indigenous man named Tokumsa, who

650
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: was trying to create a pan tribal alliance to drive

651
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: out all the white people and reclaim a way of

652
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: life best based on sharing things in common. He talked

653
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: specifically about this, saying that indigenous folks saw quote their

654
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: lands as common property of the whole. So one white

655
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 2: kid who is raised by the Osage at this time, Salta,

656
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: comes to speak, and later he wrote about it, and

657
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: he also wrote about the economy of those age people

658
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: at the time. He wrote, quote, all their various products

659
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: are in general distributed in proportion to the members of

660
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: each family concerned in their acquirement, though sometimes no distribution

661
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: takes place, but all draw as they want from the

662
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: supplying source as a common reservoir till it is exhausted.

663
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: Whenever a scarcity prevails, they reciprocally lend, or rather share

664
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: with each other their respective stores till they are all exhausted.

665
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: Oh that seems like a good way to live, No,

666
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: I know, right, it's just realizing that like a lot

667
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 2: of cultures all over the world, including a bunch of

668
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: European ones were doing this until capitalism and enclosure.

669
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: It's this thing you obviously, you get a lot in

670
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 3: American culture and then European culture of like idolizing indigenous

671
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 3: peoples and like, no, they were not like angels, right, Like,

672
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: no one is. You know, they had their wars, they

673
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 3: had their war crimes. It's just that because for a

674
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 3: wide variety of reasons, they all tended to embrace the

675
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 3: idea that members of a community had responsibilities in common

676
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 3: to each other, which is like anethema to large aspects

677
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 3: of Western civilism, and particularly American Western civilization, like no,

678
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: you will you have no responsibilities, only only to get

679
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: ahead personally.

680
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is wild because that is where the

681
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: tension is strongest, right, yeah, you have yeah, down in

682
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: South America. So the Napoleonic Wars are going on in Europe, right.

683
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: Napoleon invaded Portugal and Spain in eighteen oh eight. He

684
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: installs his brother as the king. This causes a crisis

685
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: in Latin American colonies, or rather opportunities for wars of independence.

686
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: And among the many factions involved in these struggles are

687
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: groups that were dismissed as hopelessly utopian for like not

688
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: being moderates, right, And these were groups of indigenous folks,

689
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 2: black folks, and European idealists fighting alongside one another to

690
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: maintain pastoralism and a culture of hunting to defend the

691
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: fucking commons. You have this first Republic of Venezuela that

692
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: only lasted from eighteen eleven to eighteen twelve, and Simon Boulevar,

693
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: who is the Great South America. In eighteen twelve, he

694
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 2: wrote this manifesto where he blames the failure of this

695
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: republic on quote certain worthy visionaries who, conceiving in their

696
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: minds some ethereal republic have sought to attain political perfection,

697
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: assuming the perfectibility of the human race.

698
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna have to know mull on that.

699
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know much about Boulevard much. I only know, like, yeah,

700
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: I have all these like holes in my history research

701
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: that I'm slowly filling. You know.

702
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 3: From what I can tell, he was pretty rad. He

703
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: was also like a direct inspiration or at least his image,

704
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 3: and it was used by a lot of people who

705
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 3: sucked ass. Like that makes sense, yeah, one of those lots.

706
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure no right wing people have fought against

707
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: maternity like the light ice. And I point out all

708
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: these people too, because people tend to view the Luttites

709
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: is either these hopelessly isolated flash in the pan rebels,

710
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: or they tend to view them as like the smartest

711
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 2: and uniquely best rebels. The only people who could have

712
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: saved us. The English are the only people who could

713
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: figure out this whole rebellion thing. But their tactics and

714
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: some of their ideals came from the colonies, and at

715
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: least partly they came from Ireland. Much like all of

716
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: our sponsors, we are sponsored only by Irish companies. Any

717
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: of the following accents you should just assume that they

718
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: use a leprechaun as their logo.

719
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: And you know, drink Guinness. If you have any water

720
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 3: in your house, throw it out, block your taps with

721
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: concrete and pure Guinness diet. Yeah, Breakfast to champions. Also

722
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 3: Guinness water balloons. Okay, it's nice out now, you know,

723
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: with global warming and the way to keep cool is

724
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: to fill water balloons up with any alcohol. I'm just

725
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 3: gonna go do a marathon with a camelback of Guinness.

726
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 2: Okay, true story. Today, Today I was I was trying

727
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 2: to look something up. I was looking up something about preparedness,

728
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: and I was I was thinking about how hard tack. Honey,

729
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: and liquor are the things that like last forever, right, Yeah,

730
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: And so I typed into Google Can you live off

731
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: of only liquor? And the answer that popped up was

732
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: the suicide in Crisis health hotline?

733
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 3: That's fun.

734
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know that.

735
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 3: That's good. That's good stuff. You really you really don't.

736
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: I drink for ritual purposes, that's my current line I do.

737
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 3: I just do a lot of rituals. Yeah, you're very

738
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 3: spirit I'm a very spiritual kind of guy. One time

739
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: I had this ritual in San Francisco where we just

740
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 3: we poured two handles of tequila into a camelback and

741
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 3: then threw a bunch of lime popsicles in there, so

742
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 3: it just melted throughout the day and you could go

743
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 3: into stores with a camel back nobody notices.

744
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

745
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: I saw this video on TikTok and I know how

746
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: to use it. Sorry. Olds of this person who was

747
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: going somewhere but didn't want to spend money on expensive drinks,

748
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: so she brought a glass purse and filled it up

749
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: with different layers of jello, like alcoholic jello.

750
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 3: But you have to know, I'm sorry, you have to

751
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: stop first. Glass.

752
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: So it was like it was, you know, I sorry,

753
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: this is it.

754
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: You don't seem to know how to explain this.

755
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: It was a bat so it was made out of

756
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: glass in the shape of a purse. I will send

757
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: it to you so you can what I'm sayings. And

758
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: then they didn't have to pay for drinks the whole night.

759
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: And it was in the and it was in a rainbow.

760
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: It was a rainbow jel, alcoholic jellow shots. That's what

761
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: it was with I was with them. But then they

762
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: decided in order to blendan said beverage, said said beverage

763
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: things so they don't get caught bringing in something like that.

764
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: Usually opaque containers would be one's first go to.

765
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of a lot of like bigger places

766
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: make you bring clear bags.

767
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh so interesting, So that was the part.

768
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: They like put regular objects in it to make it

769
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: look more real. And then they put like fingernail clippers

770
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: in there, and I was I was like you, I

771
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:28,959
Speaker 1: was like you, I appreciate the work.

772
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: I appreciate people putting in the work. Yeah I was.

773
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: I appreciate too, but you lost.

774
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: Me with the fingernail clipperspectfully.

775
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: I just had the leather jacket where the pockets went

776
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: straight into the lining, so I could fit an entire

777
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 2: six pack in the lining of my jacket. And I

778
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: was a ray thin nineteen year old, so it didn't

779
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: affect my silhouette.

780
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 3: I bought from a place in Dublin, actually River Island.

781
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 3: They had this like pirate jacket was like a pea

782
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 3: coat that was slightly pirate styled enough that like it

783
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 3: looked neat, but not enough that you looked like you

784
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 3: were like going to a rin fair while wearing it.

785
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: And I had a friend tear out the lining and

786
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 3: replace it with twenty different kinds of pockets made out

787
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 3: of twenty different kinds of fabric, including it had two

788
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 3: pockets in the back, each of which could fit a

789
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: handle a liquor. So when I was living in India,

790
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 3: you can't take liquor on the subway to get to

791
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 3: like parties and stuff, I would just throw a couple

792
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: of handles in the back of my pirate jacket and like, yeah,

793
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 3: roll on out exactly.

794
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 2: And so I hope that All of the ads are

795
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 2: for things that will destroy you, like glass, purses and liquor.

796
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 3: Here they go and we're back. Yeah, if anyone makes

797
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 3: bespoke coats. I missed my old pirate jacket and I

798
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 3: don't know where to get a new one. It may up.

799
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: So in seventeen ninety eight to try to do a rising,

800
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 2: and we've mentioned it basically every episode.

801
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 4: For the past year.

802
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: Is this the Fenians?

803
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: No, the Fenians are the eighteen fifty Ish ones. I think, yeah,

804
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: although actually now I'm not actually sure. I think this

805
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: is God. They kept having so many uprisings. This is

806
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: the one that I mostly remember as the one where

807
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: the Catholics and the Protestants were one hundred percent, were

808
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: very much together. And then after this, the way that

809
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: it was put down is that the Protestants were given.

810
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 4: Special treatment by the English.

811
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a ton of Irish people had to emigrate

812
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: as a result of this failed rising, and a fuck

813
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: ton of them ended up in these working class towns

814
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: in northern England. And the Irish had this traditional method

815
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: of solving certain problems, which is that you send a

816
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: threatening letter that says stop the shit or will kill you,

817
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: and then you swear an oath of secrecy and valor

818
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 2: to your friends at the pub. You put on a dress,

819
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: you paint your face to disguise it, and you go

820
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 2: break things or burning or kill people in the name

821
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: of these secret societies that have declared allegiance to folkloric

822
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: and mythic heroes. We covered this most extensively on the

823
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: Molly Maguire's episodes of Ribbon Men are another one of these.

824
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: They really had it all figured out, I really did.

825
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: And that's the Luddite style. And so they had King

826
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: lud And if you're going to have a king, it

827
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: should be a king who doesn't exist.

828
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: Just saying absolutely Tolkien understood this more or less.

829
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: I know, I know this is sort of accidentally they

830
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: to anarchism. Yes, yeah, So there's two more side characters.

831
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: I want to cover, the poets if William Blake. I

832
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: love William Blake. My dog Rentrew is named after a

833
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: character from William Blake. Blake is like Godwin in this

834
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: proto anarchist tradition. He is a printmaker who does engravings

835
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: and on the side he writes weird fucking theological political

836
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: tracks and illustrated Strange Limited edition zines and and read

837
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: the Marriage of Heaven and Hell.

838
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 4: You can't go wrong.

839
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: He wrote a poem called Jerusalem in eighteen ten, the

840
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: year before the Luddite Rising, and it's basically about the

841
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: Luddite Rising, just a year before it happened. It is

842
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: a poem that is a call to arms to destroy

843
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: the dark Satanic mills and build heaven on earth in England,

844
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 2: and it ends with I will not cease from mental fight,

845
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: nor shall my sword sleep in my hand till we

846
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: occupy the commons to green and chill our baked lands.

847
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 3: US.

848
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 4: It isn't like factories.

849
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: People used to be able to used to be better

850
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 3: at writing, like on a per cap at a basis,

851
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 3: good writers are still good writers. But man, yeah on

852
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: a bike.

853
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because even like we'll talk about a little bit later,

854
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: some of the like random working class Ludites also just

855
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 2: put out amazing prose, and other ones wrote amazing prose

856
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 2: that was like, oh, we're going to kill you right.

857
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just cause you didn't have a lot else

858
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 3: to think about at night other than like, how can

859
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 3: I best describe my feelings? Yeah, totally.

860
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: There's a lot of fermented things and not a lot

861
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:09,479
Speaker 2: of TV.

862
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

863
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 2: So the next year the comic comes to the sky,

864
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: which the Ludites called a bright, flaming sword, which and

865
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 2: everyone knew it was a comment because they're smart, but

866
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 2: it was more than that to them. And let it

867
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: be Blake's sword that would not sleep in his hand

868
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: until we occupy the commons. Then you have Percy Shelley.

869
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: Percy Shelley is in that family of nobility who are

870
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: like trying to do good. His father's William Godwin, who

871
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: helps save the life of Tom Hardy. Percy wrote Ozy Mandaeis,

872
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: which is one of my favorite poems. His wife is

873
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 2: way cooler and more interesting than overall, and she's way

874
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: better remembered. She's Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein and

875
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: Frankenstein comes out in eighteen eighteen and is almost certainly

876
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: inspired by the Luddite rebellion and the war against machinery

877
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 2: in general. At the end of it, the monster says

878
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 2: to Frankenstein, you are my creator, but I am your master,

879
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: and so my like red strings connecting history board that

880
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: I keep in my mind at all times. It's basically

881
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: like well, the genre of science fiction exists because of

882
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: a working class people with hammers and matches who tried

883
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 2: to stop the industrial revolution.

884
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 3: That actually makes complete sense. Yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

885
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 3: And Percy's all right, or at least super interesting. They're

886
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 3: all Polly, they're all a polycule and like it just

887
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 3: kind of and like, I do love how this this

888
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 3: makes me appreciate the character of Miles O'Brien even more,

889
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 3: like a working class Irish union man in the future

890
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 3: of space.

891
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: Oh, totally totally. And so Percy's important part of the

892
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 2: story comes after the Luddites because it's stuff he writes

893
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: and publishes in eighteen twelve, so kind of in the

894
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: middle of it, and it's a it's a good way

895
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 2: to get a sense of what's going on and what

896
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: impact the Ladites had and some of the ideological framework

897
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: of the time. Also, he's vegetarian and sober. If you

898
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: need another XVX hero, there's just way more of them

899
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 2: in history than I expected. He is super young during

900
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 2: all of this, but he dies at twenty nine in

901
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: a boating accident, so he really crammed a lot of

902
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: living into those three decades. He's all about the rights

903
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: of the people and he's all about defending the Commons.

904
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 2: He wrote a manifesto called Declaration of Rights that starts

905
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 2: off government has no rights. It is a delegation from

906
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: several individuals for the purpose of securing their own and

907
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: he goes on to say the rights of man are

908
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: liberty and an equal participation in the commonage of nature.

909
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: Because again the commons man.

910
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 3: I love the economy of his word usage.

911
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 4: Totally.

912
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: He gets everything that matters and said so succinctly.

913
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. And he's a strange poet guy. So

914
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 2: the first thing he does when he writes his manifesto

915
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: is he puts a copy into a bottle and throws

916
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 2: it into the sea. And then he takes another one

917
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 2: and he puts it in a hot air balloon and

918
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: like sets it up into the air. But he also

919
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 2: publishes it and distributes it based and the next the

920
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: next year, he writes a poem that becomes, according to

921
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 2: author Peter Liinbow, the Bible of the working class for

922
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: the next two generations. It's called Queen Mave and it

923
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 2: gets its name from the female warrior deity from Ireland,

924
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: mave M. It's spelled ma Ab, but I believe it's

925
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: pronounced mave cool. All the rebels at the time. The

926
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: smart ones anyway, are tying everything into colonialism. Folks used

927
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 2: Queen Mave to represent indigenous resistance in North America and Ireland,

928
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: as well as English resistance the enclosure of the Commons.

929
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is every now and then I hear

930
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 2: people say, and I sometimes find myself saying that the

931
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 2: you know, enclosure of the Commons is the English rich

932
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 2: colonizing the English poor. But this isn't my interpretation. This

933
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 2: is how the English royalties saw their work at the time.

934
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: There is this asshole John Sinclair, sorry, sir John Sinclair,

935
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: who wrote in eighteen oh three, let us not be

936
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: satisfied with the liberation of Egypt or the subjugation of Malta,

937
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 2: but let us subdue Finkley Commons. Let us conquer houndslow Heath,

938
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: let us compel at being forest to submit to the

939
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: yoke of improvement. Great, and yeah, it's just it's just colonization.

940
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: They're just doing it.

941
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeahs as they always do. You know,

942
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 3: I'm looking at just read a story the other day

943
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 3: about how under Biden we're looking at like building this

944
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 3: AI powered like border monitoring thing to like monitor all

945
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: movement on the border, and like, yeah, they'll put those

946
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 3: in cities if they can, if we let them, you know,

947
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 3: if we don't stop them.

948
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the people who claim to care about government

949
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 2: overreach are the people who really want them to exist. Yes, yes,

950
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: so Queen May of this poem, it talks about and

951
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: has like prose sections.

952
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 4: And I only read part of it.

953
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 2: For this, I have to admit, Queen may have talks

954
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: about the labor theory of value, about atheism, about free love,

955
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: about vegetarianism, and all the revolutionary shit. But like two

956
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: hundred years ago, and his atheism did not stop him

957
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 2: from giving a speech in favor of Catholic emancipation as

958
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 2: a matter of ending the oppression of the Irish people.

959
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 4: He very much.

960
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 2: She had a lot to say about ending the colonization

961
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 2: of Ireland and Shelley. In this poem he gets at

962
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: something that I think best captures the spirit of the Luddites.

963
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: And this is the most Tolkien thing I'm going to

964
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: read today. Power like a desolating pestilence pollutes whatever it touches,

965
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 2: and obedience bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth makes

966
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: slaves of men and of the human frame a mechanize automaton.

967
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

968
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: I.

969
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 3: Get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a line. I think

970
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 3: back to a lot of Charlie Chaplin line from The

971
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 3: Great Dictator describing he was describing the fascist of his day.

972
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 3: But I think about it a lot in context of

973
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 3: tech industry. People in AI machine men with machine minds

974
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 3: and machine hearts. Yeah, you were not machines, you were

975
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: not cattle.

976
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. That scene is so good. That is it really

977
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 2: is when you need to pick me up, watch that

978
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 2: scene from the Great Dictator and don't think too hard

979
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 2: about his personal life now.

980
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 3: Or probably even a bad man can channel the mystic

981
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 3: from time to time. Yeah, totallys a flawed one. Yeah yeah,

982
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 3: I mean flawed people do it all. Yeah, not that

983
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: way ideally, but yeah.

984
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: So the working class didn't just get its theory from

985
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: the rich educated folks on their side. They also were

986
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: generating it themselves. Among the Lutites were working class scholars.

987
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 2: They were like studying ancient Greek when they're coming home

988
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: from their shifts at the you know, factory and all

989
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: of that, and they're studying the modern proto socialism and

990
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: the proto.

991
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 4: Anarchism that's going on. Either of those words are.

992
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: Really doing anything at that point, and they're going to

993
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 2: do a lot of threatening and fighting and oath swearing

994
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 2: and being really cool. And we'll get to it all

995
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, because that's the cool people did cool stuff.

996
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: Promise is that the first half is context.

997
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 3: And that's my promise to everyone. I know about everything

998
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 3: any day, but Wednesday, I'll get to it Wednesday.

999
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Wednesdays the day when I do no Wait,

1000
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: Thursdays the day I do all my work. Wait, no,

1001
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: I work all the time. Wait a second, am I

1002
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 2: like those people working in the.

1003
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 3: Factory, Sophie. Cut the feed, cut the feed.

1004
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of all the things that I'm waiting

1005
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: for you to do, Robert.

1006
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: I would.

1007
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: But speaking of things that Robert does, Robert Evans, if

1008
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: you would like to Is your podcast available in English

1009
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: now as well?

1010
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 3: It is? It is, it is, It's actually always been

1011
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 3: available in English. It's just my very strong Bostonian accent

1012
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 3: is hard for some people to understand. I see, I see.

1013
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 3: But yeah. You can listen to Behind the Bastards every

1014
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 3: week Tuesday and Thursday, and you can find my novel

1015
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 3: After the Revolution, just type after the Revolution Evans into

1016
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 3: Google and it'll come up. Or you can go to

1017
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 3: atrbook dot com and read it on the interwebs for free,

1018
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: but it's also sold all the places that sell books.

1019
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: Oor'll type it into Google and bring up the crisis hotline.

1020
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's not often necessary for my readers.

1021
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: And if you want to read more of what I write,

1022
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: I write on substack every week. I write about preparedness,

1023
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 2: I write about living in times of crisis, and some

1024
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 2: of it is free, and then the more personal stuff

1025
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 2: you have to pay me for, but half of it's free.

1026
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 2: So what are you complaining about, Sophie, What do you got?

1027
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: I'd like to plug cool Zone Media's newest podcast, better

1028
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: Offline and just follow out cool Zone Media because we're

1029
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 1: gonna have a couple additional new shows coming soon this year.

1030
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 4: I'm so excited.

1031
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: I get really sad when I like I listen to

1032
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: podcasts while I do all the manual work that I

1033
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: like to do and or have to do. And sometimes

1034
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,959
Speaker 2: I run out of cool Zone Media podcasts for the week,

1035
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: and I get sad and I look at other shows,

1036
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: and some of them are good.

1037
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: But if I had told you there will be more.

1038
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 2: I'll be excited, oh cool, just as excited as you'll

1039
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 2: be on Wednesday when you hear more about the people

1040
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: breaking stuff.

1041
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: Bye cool People who did Cool Stuff is a production

1042
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. A more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1043
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1044
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio, app A Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.