1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest Today is a photojournalist 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: whose five decades of work have truly run the gamut, 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: covering politics, sports, travel, music, and entertainment. His wide ranging 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: career includes conflict of journalism, celebrity portraiture, and travel photography. 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: It's Brooklyn's Own Brian hammil hammil rose to prominence as 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: the on set still photographer for movies like Annie Hall, 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: Raging Bull, Manhattan, Tutsi, Bullets Over Broadway, and You've Got Mail. 9 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: The list goes on and on. He has photographed the 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: most famous personalities of our time, from Mohammad Ali to 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra and Barbara streisand he's even captured some of 12 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: the most iconic images ever taken of John Lennon and 13 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: Yoko Ono, which were compiled in to his recent book 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: Dream Lovers, John and Yoko in New York City. Brian 15 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: Hamil is a lifelong New Yorker who comes from an 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: incredibly talented stock He's the child of Irish immigrants, one 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: of seven. His brothers, Dennis and the late Pete Hamil, 18 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: both became acclaimed columnists journalists, authors, and screenwriters. Hamil and 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: I have been friends for decades. I began our conversation 20 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: by sharing one of my favorite memories of him. There's 21 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: a story I tell I want to take a woman 22 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: on a date, and I want to go to have 23 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: dinner with you. And you go, and I'll never forget this. 24 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: You go, what day of the week is the date? 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: I go, what's on a Monday? And you go, Monday, Monday, Monday. 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: You'll take her to this restaurant I think maybe like 27 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: Eel Tray mayor Lee or some Italian place in the Vos. 28 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: And then after that, you said, go to Tayo Mina 29 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: for dessert. 30 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: And I go, really, I mean, you were that specific. 31 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: I said, why you go? 32 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: Because God he comes there for coffee every Monday night 33 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: after Monday evening at like ten o'clock. And my mouth 34 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: fell open. So I take the girl to the restaurant, 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: We have dinner, then we walk down the block, we 36 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: go down Houston, we go to Tayo Mina and we're 37 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: sitting there. It's us and another couple. Eventually, I hit 38 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: a Tayomna many times, but you turned me onto it, 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: and sure enough the car pulls up, four guys get out, 40 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: they look around, they walk in, they look around, they 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: snap their fingers. The other car pulls up. The guys 42 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: get out, you know, like but eventually twelve fourteen guys 43 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: get out with gotty and they come in there and 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: sit down at these tables and have coffee and pastry. 45 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: You know. 46 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: And you were the one that said to me, I know, 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 2: I got it. Now. 48 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: You are, of course renowned, legendary in one area. But 49 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: what I want to talk about first is your family. 50 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: And all three are you and your two brothers? You 51 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: only have the two brothers, You had other brothers as well. 52 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 3: Well, there was six boys, one or seven kids. 53 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: What kind of childhood did you have? What kind of 54 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: work did your dad do? What kind of a home 55 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: did you have? Were you going to become probably the 56 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: most famous still photographer in the business. Then your brother 57 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: goes on to become a reporter for the Daily News, 58 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: big paper. And your brother, Pete is Pete. He's this 59 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: legendary novelist, this legendary writer. What kind of household did 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: you grow up in? 61 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 3: We were lower middle class, no money, seven kids, Parkslope, Brooklyn, 62 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 3: back when it was a rough and tumble neighborhood. Now 63 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: it's a yupper Fid neighborhood. Yeah, there were seven kids 64 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: in two bedrooms. We were poor, but we weren't impoverished. 65 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: We had We had a richness because my mom and dad. 66 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: Even though my dad was a drinker, my mother what 67 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 3: do you do for a living? He worked as an 68 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: electrical wire which put fixtures in lights. 69 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: Sure he was head of trade, Yeah, and it was. 70 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: He was in Local three. I didn't realize how poor 71 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: I was until I went away to college up in 72 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: Rochester lri T Rochester Institute of Technology Grade School, and 73 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 3: I met people from all over the country who had 74 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: money and we had a struggle. I had to work 75 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: up there in Rochester at a drug store, at a 76 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: you know, as a cashier just to make the dough. 77 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 3: And I had to take student loans, of course. 78 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: So when you're growing up and it's tough you talk 79 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: about describing, I mean I had a similar situation in 80 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: my family. We had a two bedroom apartment and by 81 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: the time we left in nineteen sixty six sixty seven, 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: and we had six kids, we had my older sister 83 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: and three boys on bunk beds. She slept in the 84 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: same room with us, so I'm very familiar when you're 85 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: living arrangements, you know. 86 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 2: One bathroom. 87 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: I mean this insanity, but my point is when did 88 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: you first hold a camera? 89 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: And people didn't have cameras back then they were expensive. 90 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 3: I first held the camera in nineteen six where who 91 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 3: had a camera. It was a little brownie camera that 92 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: either my sister got us, my sister Kathleen. But I 93 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: took pictures of my my homeboys, all my friends hanging 94 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: at them park benches. And when I showed them to Pete, 95 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 3: he said, hey, is it good? You want to think 96 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: about being a photographer. And Pete was an art director 97 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 3: then for a Greek magazine called Atlantis. You know, because 98 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 3: he was an artist, he had gone to Pratt. That's 99 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: where he met Redford. At Pratt, he read for my buddies. 100 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: So he actually ended up buying my first good camera, 101 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 3: which was like one hundred dollars camera called Miranda. Then 102 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 3: of course all the rich kids at RIT had nikons. 103 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: So eventually I put together enough bread to get an icon. 104 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 3: And RIT was just a great school. 105 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: Did you stay there and graduate from arit? 106 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 3: No? After two years I couldn't afford the tuition for 107 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: the third year with none of us had. You know, 108 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 3: I took the student loans. So I said, well, what 109 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: I'll do is I'll take off for a year and 110 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 3: come back. But in that year that I took off, 111 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: I got drafted and I had to win the army. 112 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: So I was in the army from sixty six to 113 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 3: sixty eight. 114 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: And where'd you go? Actually? 115 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 3: I ended up going to Fort twelve Wall, Virginia, which 116 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: is right outside of DC. I did volunteer to go 117 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: to Vietnam because I wanted to shoot photographs. I said, 118 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 3: let me cover the war, you know. But my kid 119 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 3: brother John, mayhe rest in peace. He joined the army 120 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: when he was seventeen, became a paratrooper one hundred and 121 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: seventy third airborn, and went to Vietnam. So when I volunteered, 122 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 3: because he joined before I got drafted, I put in 123 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: the orders to transfer everything and I went before the 124 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 3: colonel in the section I was in, and he said, 125 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: why do you want to go to Vietnam. I said, 126 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 3: I'm a photographer. I was in RI two and blah 127 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: blah blah. I gave him the whole spiel and he said, 128 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: do you have any relatives there? I said, yeah, my 129 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: kid brother's there. He said, oh, okay, well let us 130 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: digest all that and then we'll give you an answer. 131 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: And I got turned down with the colonel. I did 132 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 3: never ended up going to Vietnam. And I thought later, gee, 133 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: I wonder if it was the guy I'm not going 134 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: to say his name because he might have kids and grandkids, 135 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 3: who was a civilian who ran the museum. He was 136 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: very attached to me. He liked me, and he knew 137 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 3: that I did a good job because I went to 138 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: the Pentagon and I got pictures from one hundred and 139 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: seventy third ab on, thinking I'd run into pictures of 140 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: my kid brother, and I designed an exhibit in my 141 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: brain was kind of an anti war exhibit because they 142 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: were very graphic, and so that was up in the 143 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: thing and it became a popular exhibit in the museum there. 144 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: At the Ford. Yeah. 145 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: Now, when you're doing this, Dennis was working in the trade, 146 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: like you're old man. He didn't emerge as a writer 147 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: to win. 148 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 3: Dennis started writing for the Village Voice, and an editor 149 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: who read the Voice liked his pieces. 150 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: News. 151 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 3: No, No, it was for the La Herald Examiner in 152 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 3: La you know, and Dennis had to learn how to drive, 153 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: to be able to take the gig because they didn't 154 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 3: have to drive. 155 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: How long was he out there? 156 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 3: He was out there for a few years, and then 157 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 3: the editor took over the Herald in Boston. But I 158 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 3: got a backtrack. You know who Dennis's landlord was at 159 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: the time, in La Schwartzenegger in La. Yeah. So later 160 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: on when I met Schwarzenegger, I said, hey, my kid 161 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 3: brother told me we were a good landlord. He said, 162 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: how does he know. I said, well, he than the 163 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 3: building that you own. He said, what was his name? 164 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: I said, Dennis Hemmelt goes Dennis hammel Man. Could that 165 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: guy drink a lot of beer? 166 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: And what about Pete? When did he start his career? 167 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 3: Well, he was at Atlantis, the graphic designer, and he 168 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 3: wrote a letter to the editor of the New York 169 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 3: Post back when it was a very left wing paper, 170 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 3: not how it is now. And the guy called them 171 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: the editor James Wexel was his name, and said, how 172 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 3: would you like to be a reporter? He said, oh, 173 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,599 Speaker 3: I love it, because I said, because your letter was fabulous. 174 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: I don't know what the content. I never saw the 175 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 3: original letter, but he went in they gave him a tryout, 176 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: and he had never typed before, so he gave him 177 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: a one week or two week tryout, and he did, 178 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: you know, hunt and Peck to write his news story. 179 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 3: So he he actually covered hard news story. But he 180 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 3: quickly caught the eye of Paul Sand, who was the 181 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 3: famous editor in Pete's friend and just a terrific guy 182 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 3: and a good writer himself. He decided to think about 183 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 3: having Pete be a columnist, and he actually and James 184 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 3: Weschler was, you know, with Dorothy Schiff, who wonted the 185 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: paper that time, was in the hierarchy. Paul Sand was 186 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: the day to day, day side editor, and he gave 187 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 3: Peter tryout as a columnist, and he became the youngest 188 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 3: columnist of that paper. He was twenty four and that's 189 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 3: where he started. 190 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: Now, for you, I don't want to overemphasize in this 191 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: discussion because you're from such a famous family, but I 192 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: of course can't be remiss and underemphasize what you eventually 193 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: become and how you wind up working with the biggest 194 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: people in the business, the greatest film directors. The beginnings 195 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: of your role in the movie industry, how does that start. 196 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 3: I was doing a lot of journalism, you know, for 197 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 3: different magazines, you know, all the famous magazine and working 198 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 3: a lot, yeah, freelance. But I you know, as somebody 199 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 3: said to me, Pete wrote a film which didn't end 200 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 3: up being very good. It was directed by Frank Perry 201 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: about doc Holiday. So Pete got me to do stills 202 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 3: on that movie, which was shot in al Maria, Spain. 203 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 3: And while I was there, I met Jerry Herschel was 204 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 3: the cameraman and his son was the assistant, Alec, and 205 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 3: Alec said you should get in the Union. So I said, 206 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: I'd love to get in the Union so I could 207 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 3: do both the journalism, because it's always in my blood journalism. 208 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: But I ended up getting into the Union. But I 209 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: had to take a test first, and one of the 210 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: questions on the test, after I feel out the application, 211 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: was how do you photograph a man with a bald head? 212 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: So I told about it. This is so like random, yeah, random, 213 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 3: and it depends on your taste. So I just the answer. 214 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 3: I put it, and you put a hat on him, 215 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 3: put a hat on. 216 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: His head, and they gave you a scholarship. 217 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: And the guy guy who the things said, that's the 218 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 3: funniest answer I've ever heard. That's not what we meant. 219 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 3: I said, well, it's you know, it depends. You could 220 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 3: shoot it with available light. You can shoot it with 221 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 3: a strob, you could shoot it by a window, doesn't matter. 222 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 3: You know. It was the kind of lame thing to 223 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 3: keep people out of the Union. No, everybody gets into 224 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 3: the Union, right, which is a good. 225 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: Thing your career. 226 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: The movies you were did stills on because I want 227 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: to explain to people. When I was younger, there was 228 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,359 Speaker 1: a still man or woman on the set a lot. 229 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: The stills photography was something where. 230 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: It was cast specific. 231 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: So let's say you're doing a movie and Hackman's only 232 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: in for two weeks, you get the still unit in 233 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: there to shoot the stills because he's only there for 234 00:12:59,040 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: two weeks. 235 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: But there were stills. 236 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: Around a lot a lot and some movies, the big 237 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: movies when you had the biggest stars. If you're doing 238 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: something with Leo or someone, then the stills are there 239 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: every day. It's worth it. I mean, you want great 240 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: still photography. And nowadays I just did a film. I 241 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: went to go finish this film in Montana and we 242 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: had stills there for two days. 243 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: The one comes in for two days cast. 244 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: Specific stills for me were always this thing where I 245 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: only act for one camera. There's the movie camera. But 246 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: I did this thing where I'd almost look right into 247 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: the camera and position my body right toward the movie camera. 248 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: And when I would go off into that reverie of going, 249 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: oh Bob, you gotta remember when my dad was alive 250 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: and I go and I play it right into the 251 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: fucking camera. But that's not lookdown the barrel of the lens. 252 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: And my point is is that if there was another camera, 253 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: there were still camera, I go nuts. I'd say I 254 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: take the first a d I'd say, get them out 255 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: of here. 256 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 2: I'll pose. 257 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: They can shoot the rehearsals later on when they cut 258 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: the camera, we'll pose and do it. But I don't 259 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: want that camera in my eye when I'm shooting. I'm 260 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: assuming for you there were rhythms you had to learn, 261 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: and there's things you had to learn about shooting because 262 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: you shot the biggest stars in movie history. What was 263 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: that like for you to learn how to do that properly? 264 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 3: Well, you have to be discreet, but you have to 265 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 3: get your work done. You can't tell the studio later 266 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 3: on when they get see you infurious out of stills. Hey, 267 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: the guy was tough, you know, the actor was a 268 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: pain in the ass. That's not an excuse. They just 269 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 3: want to see end results. For instance, when I worked 270 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 3: on Raging Bull, de Niro had an eyeline problem, but 271 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: he would always accommodate me. He was so sweet about it. 272 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 3: You know, he's of course up there near the top 273 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: of my favorite actors, and he's a good human being, 274 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: great guy. So he would always accommodate me. And then 275 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: sometimes i'd get away were just grabbing stuff and he 276 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: didn't mind. But he would always not make a big 277 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 3: deal at it. He'd just do it with a hand 278 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 3: gesture like you know, and then he'd say he'd nother, 279 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 3: I'll do it for you after him, which do it 280 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 3: for the cut. Yeah, And the same thing with Chris Walking. 281 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 3: Very sweet, very nice. He was in any Hall and 282 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 3: you know, an eye issue, the eye line thing, right, 283 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 3: But it's so funny when I work with the nero 284 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: again years later on Sleepers, the Barry Levinson movie, I said, Bob, 285 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 3: let me know, if you know, just do the same 286 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: thing he did last time. He said, no, I don't 287 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 3: have that problem anymore. You can just shoot away, and 288 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 3: some actors just let you shoot away, like Dustin Hoffman 289 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 3: and Jimmy Kahn. Never you know, I worked with him 290 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 3: and he's a character. I loved him. And you know, 291 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 3: Nicholson was great. 292 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: No Eyeline without names though, because I'm you when you 293 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: said that before, but not one of the name names. 294 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: They have children or grandchildren. I'm not out to bury 295 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: anybody either. 296 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 3: But that was the guy who brought in whiskey and 297 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 3: listen of Rainbow. 298 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember other actors without naming names who that 299 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: you that you have some difficulty with the How do 300 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: you win them over? How do you get the job done? 301 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: As you said, the boss wants the pictures, what do 302 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: you do? 303 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: I tell them, this is this is my this is 304 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 3: my job, right, this is how I make my living. 305 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 3: I got I got a little rough with Sam Shephard 306 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: on what the Allen movie. He said, no stills. I said, well, 307 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: you'll do with it. He says, no, no stills. First 308 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: they shooting, and I walked up to him. At the 309 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: end of the day, I still kept trying to grab 310 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: stuff and I said, listen, you know, I don't want 311 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 3: to be forceful, but this is what I do for 312 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 3: a living. You know, if you're not going to do 313 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: it for me afterward, I can understand you don't want 314 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 3: me to shoot your in the take. But you know, 315 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 3: he said, I don't want to have this discussion. No stills. 316 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 3: I said, all right, they wouldn't go outside and start 317 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 3: with these, And he looked at me, and there was 318 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 3: a pa. You know, they walked PA's walking back and 319 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 3: forth to the dressing room, and he ran upstairs to 320 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 3: the producer and the Lime producer Bobby Greenhot. Sweet man, Bobby, Yeah, 321 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: great guy, remember Bobby. And he told me the Stell 322 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 3: photographer just threatened me. And Bobby Greenho goes, what do 323 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 3: you mean? He goes, well, he wanted to take me outside, 324 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 3: and he's a tall guy. Sam Sheppard. Pete had written 325 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: a New York magazine article about him. So that night 326 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 3: I called Pete and I said, Pete, this guy gave 327 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 3: me a hard time. I think he's a prick. He goes, no, 328 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 3: he's probably just zero intimidated by Woody or whatever, and 329 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 3: you know, you know, just calmed down about it. I 330 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 3: didn't even tell Pete that I threatened the guy. But 331 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 3: what are you being? Woody? He said? Greenhot told me 332 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 3: what you did. I'm so happy you did that. Later 333 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 3: on I ran into Sam Shepard in the village and 334 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 3: he couldn't have been nicer and turned out to be 335 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 3: a nice guy, and we'd have coffee and a joint 336 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 3: in the village a lot together. 337 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: Photo journalist Brian Hammel. If you enjoy conversations with brilliant photographers, 338 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: check out my episode with Pete Souza, white House photographer 339 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: for both Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama. 340 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 4: The most interesting part of my job was that I 341 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 4: saw him and all these different compartments of his life. 342 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 4: I saw him as a dad. I saw how he 343 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 4: behaved with his children. I saw him when he was 344 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 4: on the basketball court. Most competitive guy I've ever met 345 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 4: in my life. The general public doesn't see that, but 346 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 4: I saw that part of him. One rule that everybody 347 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 4: at the White House staff knew was that six thirty 348 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 4: or seven o'clock he was in dinner with his family. 349 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 2: Full stop. 350 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Pete Souza, go 351 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: to Hear's Thething dot org. After the break, Brian Hamill 352 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: shares the backstory of how some of the most memorable 353 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: images of John Lennon came to be I'm Alec Baldwin 354 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: and you're listening to Here's the thing. Brian Hamill is 355 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: known for his photos from some of the most significant 356 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: films in history. In fact, one of his early jobs 357 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: on set led to the iconic movie poster for Woody 358 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: Allen's film Manhattan. I wanted to know if Hamill set 359 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: out to take the one lucky frame that became the 360 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: poster or was it just another behind the scenes shots. 361 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 3: No, it was where Gordon Willis may rest in peace. 362 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: Phenomenal talent. 363 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 2: I worked with Gordy. 364 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, phenomenal talent. He took a long time to light it. 365 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 3: But once stuff is lit by Gordon, it goes like clockwork. 366 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 3: When I saw how gorgeous it looked, I had one 367 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 3: of the grips, get me a ladder so I could 368 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 3: get up on the ladder and get a good conversation 369 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 3: that was close to Gordon's composition and bingo. I shot 370 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 3: about eight or nine frames, and Woody, who doesn't like 371 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: to do many takes, he said, let's move on. 372 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna tell two quick stories. One time, 373 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: I do Malice, this very tepid thriller I did with 374 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman and Bill Pullman, and Gordy was the DP, 375 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: and Harold Becker was the director, and Harold who was 376 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: like a Jewish gangster at a book and with that 377 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: accent of his and that voice of his. Harold and 378 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: GORDI are there and when they're standing there together talking 379 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: Gordon I think it was day one and turns out 380 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: and he goes. 381 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: When everybody is shut up. 382 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: He screams at the crew and we all teach other like, wow, 383 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: this is not at all what I had in mind, 384 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I realized I said 385 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: I needed to go the other way. I needed to 386 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: fight through the wall. So I go up to Gordie 387 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: the next day. I go, hey, I mean, I see 388 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: you're here at the crack of dawn and you're on 389 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: your feet getting everything set up. 390 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 2: I go, can I get you a cup of coffee? 391 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, sure, I'll take a cup of coffee. 392 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: How do you like it? And I'm like it with 393 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,719 Speaker 2: milk and two sugars or whatever the fuck it was. 394 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: I go get it. 395 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: And I brought him his coffee every morning that I worked, 396 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: and he could not have been nicer to me. It's 397 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: like something simple like that. He could not have been 398 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: nicer to me. Now, all of Woody's movies, all of 399 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: his ouvra is just it saved my life. It saved 400 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: my because when I really needed to take my mind 401 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: off my problems, that's the only thing that worked, like Gangbusters. Now, 402 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: who was a director who you're a photographer and you 403 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: have an eye and you talk about composition and ladders 404 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: and go and all this other stuff. Who is a 405 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: director who you learned from? Did you learn from anybody 406 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: when you were watching them shoot films? 407 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Sure? 408 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 3: Well, of course? Was that was a masterclass for me 409 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 3: in film mate Michael Chapman. Michael Chapman was you know, 410 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 3: legendary DP and he had been Gordie's operator. 411 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: Right the Raging Boat. Yeah, Chapman was a DP. 412 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: What's it like for you to be on a movie 413 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: set and you're shooting these people and do you get 414 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: like a real or not? Now because you've done it 415 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: forever and you you're and I want to get to 416 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: John Lenond in a minute, But was it just like 417 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: really like a high for you? Did you sit there 418 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: and go I can't believe I'm on the fucking set 419 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: of this movie while they're making this and you could 420 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 1: tell it's great. 421 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: Well, it's good, it's unfolding. 422 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, on good movies. Yeah, but you know, at the 423 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: beginning of my career, I worked on a half a 424 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 3: dozen garbage cam movies, right, even while I was in 425 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 3: the Union. You know, you got to work your way 426 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 3: up to get and I actually the first really terrific 427 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 3: movie I worked on was Annie Hall. Actually The Gambler 428 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 3: was a good movie. 429 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 2: Jimmy. 430 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 431 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: Now do you stop at some point? Is there a 432 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: time where you just stop and you don't want to 433 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: be on sets anymore? Did like did it run its course? 434 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: And you were like, I think this is my last movie? 435 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 2: What happened? 436 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: Well, my career got kind of fucked up when I 437 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 3: got THROATCTS. I had to take. 438 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 2: Off for a year, and you got that what year. 439 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 3: I got the surgery done in two thousand and then 440 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 3: I had a gift into two thousand and one with 441 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 3: the radiation, which is you know, do you. 442 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: Remember running to me on the street. Yes, I'm cutting 443 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: a film. Yeah, the only film I ever made that 444 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: I directed. I hated every minute. 445 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 3: You looked at me. 446 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: I didn't know who you were. Forty mangan Arrow was 447 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: around the corner to go get lunch. I was on four. 448 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: I can't believe you your fucking memories. Unbelieva. 449 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: I'm not forty third Street and down that block between 450 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: ninth and tenth was the editing house and next door 451 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: I go out and smoke a cigarette. I get out 452 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: of the ending room and go smoke a cigarette, and 453 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: then I and the firehouse was next door, right, and 454 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know what percent, like eighty 455 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: percent of the guys in that unit were killed in 456 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: nine to eleven that September. 457 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 3: Including Patty Brown. 458 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: I ran into you on the corner and you said 459 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: to me, alec I took a look at you. 460 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 2: I didn't even know who you were. 461 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 3: My head was swollen, yeah, and. 462 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: Your and your and your face was was was swollen 463 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: and yeah, and you told me what happened. 464 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. 465 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, stage four cancer. 466 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 2: And so all gone. You're good, Oh yeah, I'm good now. 467 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: But that but that would you say that was the 468 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: cause of interrupting your well. 469 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 3: I put a hurt on my career for a year 470 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 3: and a half. But my two North stars, Woody and 471 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 3: Barry Levinson, both hired me right away, right, you know 472 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,239 Speaker 3: when I when I was good enough to work, and 473 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 3: I did another ten or fifteen movies after I healed up. 474 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 2: What's the last movie you did? 475 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 3: Last movie I I did was It Might Have Been 476 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 3: with You with Michael Currente. 477 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 4: No. 478 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 3: In two thousand and six Do We Do It was 479 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 3: called Brooklyn Rules. 480 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: Brooklyn Rules with Freddie Prince Junior. Yeah. 481 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the last one I did with Karente. Before that, 482 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: I did Outside Providence that he adapted from the Farrely 483 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: Brothers book. Right, yeah, And Karrente he doesn't make movies anymore, 484 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: and he's no. 485 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 3: He just shot a pilot that he sent to me 486 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 3: in It's good. It's good pilot wise guys in Federal Hill, 487 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 3: you know, and that's that's his Uh, that's home town, 488 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 3: that mill, you know that, And it's good. I hope 489 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: it gets picked up. 490 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: You know. 491 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 3: He's a nice guy. He's a determined guy. 492 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: Well when he when he focuses, he's a classic example 493 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: of a director who needed a good producer so he 494 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: could just focus on making the movie. 495 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 4: Right. 496 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: Like when we made the movie Outside Providence. He would 497 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: literally walk up to me and I mean, who's funnier 498 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: than Karente was a very funny guy. 499 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 500 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: Now talk to me about Lenin. You had a big exhibit, Well, 501 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: I have. 502 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 3: A book that came out. I had an exhibit. The 503 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 3: last exhibit I had of my London pictures was in 504 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 3: a terrific gallery in Rheinberg, New York, the Betsy Jacket 505 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 3: Russo Gallery. But my Lenden pictures have been displayed in 506 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 3: New Mexico at a terrific gallery that only does black 507 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 3: and white stuff down there, and the Peter Fretterman Gallery 508 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 3: in Los Angeles. But the last exhibit I had of 509 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 3: those photographs was some of those photographs, not all the 510 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 3: ones in the book. He wrote the forward for the book. 511 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: And how did that come about? How did the relationship 512 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: with Lenin come about? 513 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 3: I got an assignment from a Sunday supplement in nineteen 514 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 3: seventy two. After I started working on movies, I did 515 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 3: concurrently photo journalism, and Pete had done a piece on 516 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 3: him years earlier when it was the Beatles. He did 517 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: a piece on the Beatles for the Saturday Evening Post, 518 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 3: and he had written some columns defending him, because remember 519 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 3: that he went to that whole ordeal where they were 520 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 3: trying to, you know, not let him stay in the 521 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 3: yeah and kick him out and everything, and Pete defended 522 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 3: him in a cluster of columns. I think it was 523 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: The Post at that time when Pete was the columns 524 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,959 Speaker 3: for the Post. So I said, he used to want 525 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 3: in touch with Lennon and he said yeah. I said, 526 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: I just got an assignment from this magazine, a Sunday supplement, 527 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 3: and he said, yeah, you should do it. I said, well, 528 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 3: how do I get in touch with him? He said, well, 529 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 3: I'll call him. So he called him and the next 530 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 3: day he said, yeah, tell your brother to come by tomorrow. 531 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 3: He lived in the village at one oh five Bank 532 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 3: Street at this time, and I had already shot the 533 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 3: concert at the Garden, which was in August of seventy one. 534 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 3: There was a concert that John and Yoko did that. 535 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 3: It was a benefit concert for Willowbrook with you know 536 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 3: heraldover I remember when he was a champion of his career. Yeah. Anyway, 537 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 3: I go over there and I decided, hey, listen, you 538 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,719 Speaker 3: know I meet to John Lennon. Let me take all 539 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 3: these photographs. And they were already being distributed through the 540 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 3: agency I had that I worked on with the land 541 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 3: called photo reporters. So I got some you know, silver 542 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 3: gelatin eight x tens made up and I figured, at 543 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: some point I'm going to give it to John and Yoko, 544 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 3: these prints, but I'm not going to do it right 545 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 3: away because I don't want to think I was a 546 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,959 Speaker 3: brown nose. So I ring the bell and I figured, 547 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: you know, it's going to be makeup pair of publicists 548 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: and all the bullshit that goes on when you're photograph 549 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: a star. And hear the voice saying, yeah, come on up. 550 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 3: The apartment was a couple of flight the top floor, 551 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 3: so he answered the door himself and he stuck at 552 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 3: his turn and goes, hey, Brian, John like, okay, yeah, 553 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 3: you can start. He goes, would you like a cupa? 554 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,719 Speaker 3: And you know the Irish and he's English with Irish roots. 555 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 3: He was offering me tea. But I was still a 556 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 3: little nervous, and I figured, you know, I'm going to 557 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 3: go and I'm going to see the you know, the 558 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 3: whole team you know that he's got behind him, And 559 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 3: I walked in through. I declined the tee and I 560 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 3: walked into the room and the only person there besides 561 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 3: Jean was Joko, and they gave me all the time 562 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 3: in the world I needed. 563 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: Why do you think he did that? 564 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 3: He was he was just a nice guy. 565 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: It was a solid guy, and maybe he craved just 566 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: normal exchanges with people in normal right moments with people 567 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: after having so much insanity, and. 568 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 3: You know, I foughto left and now I don't know, 569 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 3: forty five minutes and then he said you got enough, 570 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 3: and I said, I'd love to get you walk in 571 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 3: the streets. He said, yeah, let's do it. So the 572 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 3: two of us, the three of us, okay, and we 573 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: walked around the village and people would stop him, but 574 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 3: not like you know Stosha New Yorkers in the village, 575 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 3: Andy John that was blah blah blah. And he was 576 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 3: listened to all of them. He was a good listener. 577 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 3: He wasn't like he didn't, you know, try to cut 578 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 3: people short. The same with yoga. She was exceedingly nice, 579 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 3: and all the bullshit about all the negativity about her 580 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 3: really bugs the shit at of me to this day 581 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 3: because she's a nice person. 582 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: Brian Hammel, if you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend 583 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: and be sure to follow. Here's the thing on the iHeartRadio, app, 584 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, 585 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: Brian Hammel shares his experience working in Northern Ireland during 586 00:30:51,160 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: the troubles. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 587 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: the Thing. Photo journalist Brian Hamill has been lucky enough 588 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: to be present for some remarkable cultural moments, but he's 589 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: also been present to capture moments of strife and conflict, 590 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: the Troubles in Ireland, the nineteen ninety four Northridge earthquake, 591 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: and sadly, the assassination of Robert Kennedy in Los Angeles 592 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight. 593 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: Pete was very friendly with Bobby and I had met 594 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 3: Bobby in the village and who had a beer, and 595 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 3: Pete introduced me to him. So Pete went to Ireland 596 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 3: to work on his first novel, and Pete sent Timmeal 597 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 3: letter saying you know you have to run for president. 598 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 3: Basically he sent them from Ireland. Bobby wrote him back 599 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 3: a letter and said I need you back here. And 600 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 3: Pete he had just finished his first novel, which was 601 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 3: called A Killing for Christ, a thriller. So he came 602 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 3: back and then he said to me let's go to 603 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 3: La together. I had just gotten out of the army. 604 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 3: I should precede this by saying, Martin Luther King got 605 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 3: assassinated fourth, Yeah, April fourth, and I got out a 606 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 3: couple of days later. I'll never forget the phone call. 607 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 3: My mother called me crying on the phone. So anyway, 608 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 3: we got out to La Pete and I and we 609 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 3: ended up at the Ambassador Hotel. We were up in 610 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 3: the room, the hotel room before he went down to 611 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 3: give that speech, the victory speech, you know. Anyway, he 612 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 3: was supposed to go out the back of the ballroom, 613 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 3: and then Pete was up on the stage near Bobby 614 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 3: right here, and I was shooting this way in the crowd, 615 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 3: shooting up, and Pete said, he gestured for me come 616 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,719 Speaker 3: around the curtain, and I made my way up there 617 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 3: and said like that, were going out this way through 618 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 3: the kitchen. But anyway, I walked right by Sirhan. I 619 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 3: was from here too, I don't know, thirty feet beyond 620 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 3: where he actually got murdered, maybe twenty five feet because 621 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 3: I wanted to have the candidate come to me so 622 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 3: I could photograph him coming at me, you know, in 623 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 3: the kitchen. So I was all set and then boom boom, 624 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 3: boom boom, and my heart sank. I went holy shit, 625 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 3: and I could hear somebody screaming, no Jack Ruby's, no, 626 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 3: Jack Ruby's. I don't know who that ever was. But 627 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 3: Pete was right there. It was next to Rosie Greer, 628 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 3: and I was you know, he saw the whole thing 629 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 3: go down and luckily, you know, five people got shot. 630 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: Well interesting how divided the family was about Sirhans parole. Yes, 631 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,479 Speaker 1: you know, Bobby Kennedy Junior said he's sat with him 632 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: and said, this guy didn't kill my dad, thanks, and 633 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: other members of the family were, you know, vehement about 634 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: him not getting any parole. I mean, I have a 635 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: lot of opinions about that because I'm kind of a 636 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,479 Speaker 1: conspiracy not about both assassinations. And when people talk about 637 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: the angle that Sir Haan was at compared to where 638 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: the gun was shot into his masty, there's a lot 639 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: of questions here. 640 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Bobby Jr. Is very answer that. 641 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, completely. 642 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: Now one last question, which is you shot. I mean, 643 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: I don't like this blanket term. It's a little tedious 644 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: to me, but you shot the troubles over in Ireland. 645 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: You were over in the caase of photography or were 646 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: you an assignment for for that. 647 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 3: The New York Times magazine? When was that nineteen seventy two, Right, 648 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 3: that's a bloody sign. 649 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 2: This was a very busy time for you. 650 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, seventies were it was that from my career? 651 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and what did you see over there? Well? 652 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 3: I was lucky because my parents are from Belfast, so 653 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 3: I haired kind of a hook with the IRA. Honestly, 654 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 3: people hit no coment. Yeah, right, And I got introduced 655 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 3: to Martin McGinnis, who sort of put me under his wing. 656 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 3: And you told about the guy with balls, you know, 657 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 3: the Brits, and he said they're gonna be shooting at us. 658 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 3: He told me. I said, yeah, I'm down. So they did. 659 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 3: They shot at us. And if you look at the. 660 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 2: You wanted to go to Vietnam, here was your chance. 661 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, shot it. And actually Pete came over because he 662 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 3: was doing a piece for New York Magazine. So some 663 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: of the photographs were also in the New York Magazine 664 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 3: with Pete's piece. But Gail she who wrote the piece 665 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 3: where I did the photos for the New York Times magazine. 666 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 3: But Martin McGinnis, what the Sterling guy. He was. He 667 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 3: was the head of the provos and he was young. 668 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 3: He was like twenty two something. He was younger than 669 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 3: I was. I think I was twenty twenty four or 670 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 3: twenty five when I was there. But you know, when 671 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 3: you're that young, you feel like you're immortal, you know. 672 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: Photo journalist Brian hammil You can see some of Brian's 673 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 1: work in person at the Betsy Hakarusso Gallery in Rhinebeck, 674 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: New York. On October ninth, his photos of John Lennon 675 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: will be on display in honor of what would have 676 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: been the musician's eighty third birthday. This episode was recorded 677 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: at CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced by 678 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is 679 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm 680 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by 681 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio.