WEBVTT - Donald Trump Challenges Mayors in Sanctuary Cities (Audio) 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:05.320 In his crackdown on illegal immigration, President Trump targeted sanctuary cities, 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:09.080 signing an executive order yesterday aimed at stripping federal funds 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:13.200 to cities that protect illegal immigrants from prosecution. The language 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.560 of the order was short on specifics, although Press Secretary 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:21.000 Shawn Spicer made the intent very clear. From here on out, 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.919 I'm asking all of you to enforce the laws of 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.560 the United States of America. They will be enforced and 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:34.680 enforced strongly. That, of course, was President Trump in signing 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.760 the executive order, but mayors of sanctuary cities like New York, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.400 Los Angeles, Chicago, and Boston pushed back, vowing defiantly to 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.920 continue to protect their immigrant populations. Here's Mayor Rama Manuel 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.199 of Chicago. Whether you're from Ireland, or India or Israel, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.480 and whether you're from Mexica or Moldovia, where my grandfather 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.040 came from, you are welcomed in Chicago as you pursue 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.360 the American dream. Some six fifty billion dollars could be 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.080 at risk, but Trump may be legally limited in his 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.360 authority to withhold federal funds based on cooperation with his policies. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.800 Ap point officials in New York and California said they're 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.839 ready to litigate. As California Governor Jerry Brown made clear, 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.600 we will defend everybody, every man, woman, and child who's 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.200 come here for a better life and has contributed to 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.959 the well being of our state. Joining us today are 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.840 Jennifer Shakoon, professor at the University of California Irvine School 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.080 of Law, and Jessica Vaughan, Director of Policy Studies for 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:42.280 the Center for Immigration Studies. Jennifer, there's no clear definition 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:47.000 of sanctuary city, and the policies of sanctuaries cities seem 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:52.200 to vary widely. Are there any policies they all adhere to. No. 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.440 I think one of the things that's interesting is the 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.840 President is used the term sanctuary almost as if it's 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:58.880 a legal term of art. But there is a great 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:03.000 deal of right the among sanctuary cities UM and also 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.640 other departments and agencies that practice policies that might be 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.360 characterized by some as sanctuary policies UM. So there's a 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.720 lot of diversity. I think some things that features that 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.320 they might have in common UM would include, UH, not 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.680 using local resources state or local resources, the resources of 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.440 state and local agencies UM to investigate immigration status of 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.880 their own accord um and with their own resources in 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.840 Jessica Um, donald t top of course, is threatening it 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.640 to cut off funds to cities. What kinds of funds 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.320 do cities received from the federal government? Putting aside for 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.480 a second whether the president actually would be able to 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.280 legally withhold that money. Well, first of all, it's not 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.920 true that there's no definition of a sanctuary city in 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.480 federal law. And if you read the executive orders, you 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.360 see that it's clear that they're going to be using 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.200 a US Code thirteen seventy three, which says that no 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.760 jurisdiction can in any way prohibit or restrict their officers 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:08.480 communication with federal immigration authorities, and no one can shield 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.720 criminal aliens from detection by the federal government. And so um, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:15.959 this is the section. These are the sections of the 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.080 law that the Department of Justice has already said that 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:25.200 anyone applying for d o J Law enforcement grants has 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.399 to be in compliance with and they've said that policy. 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.600 You know, sanctuaries who have policies and in that are 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:37.240 inconsistent with that law are going to see their funding 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.960 with health. So this is already on track, and it's 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.440 perfectly in conformance with the law. Right now, we're talking 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:50.360 about Department of Justice funding UM for law enforcement purposes, 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.800 but President Trump has directed his administration to look at 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.160 other kinds of funding that could be potentially uh at 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:05.160 risk for the sanctuaries. And not only that UM. According 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.000 to this executive order that was released yesterday, they could 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.480 be subject to prosecution, which could include the imposition of 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.080 fines in certain kinds of cases where criminal aliens who 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.599 are released by the sanctuaries go on to harm others. 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:25.960 And further, they're going to be releasing the information on 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.720 the individual criminal aliens who are released by the sanctuary 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.920 jurisdictions so the public can see exactly what's going on here, 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:39.200 and the leaders of these sanctuary jurisdictions can explain to 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:43.520 the public why they release these people instead of allowing 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.440 Ice to take custody of them for deportation. And so 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.719 I think this is a real game changer, Jennifer, do 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.400 you agree. Hasn't the Supreme Court rule that the US 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.080 can only cut funds from states and cities that violate 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.800 its policies if the funds are cut from programs that 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.120 are related to the policies that are being violated. Yes, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.360 that's right, And let me just streuss that for decades 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.880 um state and local actors have made decisions about how 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.280 to be involved in immigration enforcement. And so we can 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.719 think of this and not as a recent phenomenon of 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.440 a few large jurisdictions announcing sanctuary policies. We can think 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.240 about Special Order forty, the order that prohibits members from 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.760 the Los Angeles Police Department from investigating immigration status. That 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.440 order has been around since the late nineteen seventies. When 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.840 a state or a local agency or department found that 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.040 getting involved in immigration enforcement undermined its core functions like 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.839 community safety, or education or public health, that agency often 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:39.920 made a choice to protect the integrity of its core 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.400 mission by staying out of federal immigration investigation and enforcement. 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.080 In mid Congress and acted a series of measures, including 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:49.440 the one that Jessica referred to, that we're designed to 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.479 promote voluntary cooperation between state and local actors and the 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.520 federal government. But Congress did not enact measures that would 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.120 force state or states or localities to take on federal 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.000 investigation and federal inforce worsement of immigration law. Nor could they, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.840 as he just referenced, those kinds of efforts would be 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:09.160 found constitutionally impermission impermissible, and they've been found constitutionally impermissible 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.080 in cases like Prince versus the United States. So there's 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.560 a limit to what the federal government can do in 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.080 terms of ordering uh, the participation and cooperation of states 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.200 and localities when they want investigation, um and enforcement of 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.719 immigration law. To say, Jennifer, let me ask that, Jessica, respondent, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.760 Just isn't isn't that Prince case pretty pretty clear? The 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:33.000 federal government can't withhold money from state governments that are 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.039 not You can't can't require them to enforce federal law 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.600 at risk of losing federal funding. Isn't that clear? Well, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:44.120 the federal government is not asking state and agencies to 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.800 enforce federal law. What they're asking them to do is 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:52.560 not to obstruct enforcement of law and not to illegally 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:59.640 prohibit local officials from communicating with federal immigration authorities. That's 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.560 what this is about. That's how this is defined in 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.799 the Executive Order, and that's consistent with federal law. So, Jessica, 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:10.280 let me just clarify, you said, Jessica, Jessica, just want 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.600 to clarify. So you said that your understanding this executive 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.400 order is that it it's trying to keep cities from 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.320 prohibiting their employees from communicating. Is that all it does 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:24.040 or doesn't it require them to tell federal authorities that 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.440 they have somebody in custody. Absolutely not, No, that's not 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.480 what the order says. It refers specifically to the section 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.560 of law that I reference date US Code through seventy three. 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:39.880 But it also leaves open the possibility of prosecution or 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:46.280 fines for anyone who facilitates the illegal presence of someone 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.080 in the United States. And that's that's a that's a 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.480 type of sanctuary policy. Also, uh, and that's a different question. 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:59.680 It's not forcing anyone to do something that's contrary to 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:04.080 federal law or that would be commandeering of resources. So 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.440 I think some of these sanctuary jurisdictions are really overreacting 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.880 to what people are saying. Now, I'd like to think 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.560 that they would do the right thing and cooperate at 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.800 all times with ice, because that's you know, that's what 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.960 the public expects and that's what keeps our community safe. 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.640 But this executive order is I'm early within the bounds 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.640 of all right, the established law. Jennifer Hole that thought, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.880 we are now going to go to Philadelphia, where President 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.960 Trump is addressing the GOP retreat.