1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: In his crackdown on illegal immigration, President Trump targeted sanctuary cities, 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: signing an executive order yesterday aimed at stripping federal funds 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: to cities that protect illegal immigrants from prosecution. The language 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: of the order was short on specifics, although Press Secretary 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Shawn Spicer made the intent very clear. From here on out, 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: I'm asking all of you to enforce the laws of 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: the United States of America. They will be enforced and 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: enforced strongly. That, of course, was President Trump in signing 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: the executive order, but mayors of sanctuary cities like New York, 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Chicago, and Boston pushed back, vowing defiantly to 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: continue to protect their immigrant populations. Here's Mayor Rama Manuel 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: of Chicago. Whether you're from Ireland, or India or Israel, 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: and whether you're from Mexica or Moldovia, where my grandfather 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: came from, you are welcomed in Chicago as you pursue 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: the American dream. Some six fifty billion dollars could be 16 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: at risk, but Trump may be legally limited in his 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: authority to withhold federal funds based on cooperation with his policies. 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: Ap point officials in New York and California said they're 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: ready to litigate. As California Governor Jerry Brown made clear, 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: we will defend everybody, every man, woman, and child who's 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: come here for a better life and has contributed to 22 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: the well being of our state. Joining us today are 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer Shakoon, professor at the University of California Irvine School 24 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: of Law, and Jessica Vaughan, Director of Policy Studies for 25 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: the Center for Immigration Studies. Jennifer, there's no clear definition 26 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: of sanctuary city, and the policies of sanctuaries cities seem 27 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: to vary widely. Are there any policies they all adhere to. No. 28 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's interesting is the 29 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: President is used the term sanctuary almost as if it's 30 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: a legal term of art. But there is a great 31 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: deal of right the among sanctuary cities UM and also 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: other departments and agencies that practice policies that might be 33 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: characterized by some as sanctuary policies UM. So there's a 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: lot of diversity. I think some things that features that 35 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: they might have in common UM would include, UH, not 36 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: using local resources state or local resources, the resources of 37 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: state and local agencies UM to investigate immigration status of 38 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: their own accord um and with their own resources in 39 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: Jessica Um, donald t top of course, is threatening it 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: to cut off funds to cities. What kinds of funds 41 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: do cities received from the federal government? Putting aside for 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: a second whether the president actually would be able to 43 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: legally withhold that money. Well, first of all, it's not 44 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: true that there's no definition of a sanctuary city in 45 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: federal law. And if you read the executive orders, you 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: see that it's clear that they're going to be using 47 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: a US Code thirteen seventy three, which says that no 48 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: jurisdiction can in any way prohibit or restrict their officers 49 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: communication with federal immigration authorities, and no one can shield 50 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: criminal aliens from detection by the federal government. And so um, 51 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: this is the section. These are the sections of the 52 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: law that the Department of Justice has already said that 53 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: anyone applying for d o J Law enforcement grants has 54 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: to be in compliance with and they've said that policy. 55 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: You know, sanctuaries who have policies and in that are 56 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: inconsistent with that law are going to see their funding 57 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: with health. So this is already on track, and it's 58 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: perfectly in conformance with the law. Right now, we're talking 59 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: about Department of Justice funding UM for law enforcement purposes, 60 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: but President Trump has directed his administration to look at 61 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: other kinds of funding that could be potentially uh at 62 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: risk for the sanctuaries. And not only that UM. According 63 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: to this executive order that was released yesterday, they could 64 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: be subject to prosecution, which could include the imposition of 65 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: fines in certain kinds of cases where criminal aliens who 66 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: are released by the sanctuaries go on to harm others. 67 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: And further, they're going to be releasing the information on 68 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: the individual criminal aliens who are released by the sanctuary 69 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: jurisdictions so the public can see exactly what's going on here, 70 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: and the leaders of these sanctuary jurisdictions can explain to 71 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: the public why they release these people instead of allowing 72 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: Ice to take custody of them for deportation. And so 73 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: I think this is a real game changer, Jennifer, do 74 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: you agree. Hasn't the Supreme Court rule that the US 75 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: can only cut funds from states and cities that violate 76 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: its policies if the funds are cut from programs that 77 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: are related to the policies that are being violated. Yes, 78 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: that's right, And let me just streuss that for decades 79 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: um state and local actors have made decisions about how 80 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: to be involved in immigration enforcement. And so we can 81 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: think of this and not as a recent phenomenon of 82 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: a few large jurisdictions announcing sanctuary policies. We can think 83 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: about Special Order forty, the order that prohibits members from 84 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Police Department from investigating immigration status. That 85 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: order has been around since the late nineteen seventies. When 86 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: a state or a local agency or department found that 87 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: getting involved in immigration enforcement undermined its core functions like 88 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: community safety, or education or public health, that agency often 89 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: made a choice to protect the integrity of its core 90 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: mission by staying out of federal immigration investigation and enforcement. 91 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: In mid Congress and acted a series of measures, including 92 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: the one that Jessica referred to, that we're designed to 93 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: promote voluntary cooperation between state and local actors and the 94 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: federal government. But Congress did not enact measures that would 95 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: force state or states or localities to take on federal 96 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: investigation and federal inforce worsement of immigration law. Nor could they, 97 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: as he just referenced, those kinds of efforts would be 98 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: found constitutionally impermission impermissible, and they've been found constitutionally impermissible 99 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: in cases like Prince versus the United States. So there's 100 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: a limit to what the federal government can do in 101 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: terms of ordering uh, the participation and cooperation of states 102 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: and localities when they want investigation, um and enforcement of 103 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: immigration law. To say, Jennifer, let me ask that, Jessica, respondent, 104 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: Just isn't isn't that Prince case pretty pretty clear? The 105 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: federal government can't withhold money from state governments that are 106 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: not You can't can't require them to enforce federal law 107 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: at risk of losing federal funding. Isn't that clear? Well, 108 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: the federal government is not asking state and agencies to 109 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: enforce federal law. What they're asking them to do is 110 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: not to obstruct enforcement of law and not to illegally 111 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: prohibit local officials from communicating with federal immigration authorities. That's 112 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: what this is about. That's how this is defined in 113 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: the Executive Order, and that's consistent with federal law. So, Jessica, 114 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: let me just clarify, you said, Jessica, Jessica, just want 115 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: to clarify. So you said that your understanding this executive 116 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: order is that it it's trying to keep cities from 117 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: prohibiting their employees from communicating. Is that all it does 118 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: or doesn't it require them to tell federal authorities that 119 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: they have somebody in custody. Absolutely not, No, that's not 120 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: what the order says. It refers specifically to the section 121 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: of law that I reference date US Code through seventy three. 122 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: But it also leaves open the possibility of prosecution or 123 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: fines for anyone who facilitates the illegal presence of someone 124 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: in the United States. And that's that's a that's a 125 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: type of sanctuary policy. Also, uh, and that's a different question. 126 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: It's not forcing anyone to do something that's contrary to 127 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: federal law or that would be commandeering of resources. So 128 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: I think some of these sanctuary jurisdictions are really overreacting 129 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: to what people are saying. Now, I'd like to think 130 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: that they would do the right thing and cooperate at 131 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: all times with ice, because that's you know, that's what 132 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: the public expects and that's what keeps our community safe. 133 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: But this executive order is I'm early within the bounds 134 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: of all right, the established law. Jennifer Hole that thought, 135 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: we are now going to go to Philadelphia, where President 136 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: Trump is addressing the GOP retreat.